Off The Vine with Kaitlyn Bristowe - Jenny Mollen: Social Media, Rejection, and Loving Jasons

Episode Date: March 1, 2022

Fellow Gemini, pup rescuer, and Jason lover, Jenny Mollen, joins Kaitlyn to talk about all the important things in life: relationships, parenting, and of course, The Bachelor franchise. These two may not have connected before (other than some lighthearted digs on Twitter) but it feels like they’ve been friends for years as they talk about everything from growing older to bettering yourself through therapy to living life on social media. Now they have even more in common as Jenny has started her very own pod, Third Wheel, which dives into the relationships we all want to know more about. Jenny is also about to release her third book, City of Likes, a novel that has the essence of The Devil Wears Prada but if Meryl Streep and Anne Hathaway had sex. As intriguing as it sounds, Jenny talks about all of the rejection and hard work it took to get this book to become a reality. Finally, Jenny shares some parenting and relationship tips, including how to explain to your children that their father famously *made love to* a pie, and why her @DictatorLunches Instagram account helps her connect to her kids in a new way. Be sure to check out Jenny on Instagram @JennyMollen and listen to her new podcast, Third Wheel, which may feature Kaitlyn and her Jason in a future episode… APARTMENTS.COM - The most popular place to find a place. GOMACRO - Stock up on MacroBars by going to gomacro.com and using the promo code VINE for 30% off PLUS free shipping on all orders over $50!  THE PILL CLUB - Go to ThePillClub.com/Vine to get your first birth control care package and donate to help more women in need of affordable birth control. PROGRESSIVE - Get a quote today at Progressive.com.  See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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Hey, be on the mic, turn it up. Let's go. Hey, ramen. Pino. Ready for the show. Everyone's welcome. So come on in because OTV. It's about to begin. Hey. Welcome to Off the Vine. I'm your host, Caitlin Bristow. I'm excited for today's conversation. I have writer actor, New York Times bestselling author, and new podcaster, a mom and a dog mom too. We have Jenny Mullen, married to the guy who f***ed the pie, a fellow Jason. Jason Biggs, if you have been living under a rock. This is such a fun conversation, only disturbed by Tommy, the ghost, in my bus a couple of times. But she talks about being a mom, writing multiple books, and generally just navigating relationships.

There's literally nothing off limits in this one, and it felt like I was just talking to a good girlfriend for 45 minutes it's amazing everybody enjoy I am the hottest mess alive hi how are you how are you I'm so terrible I'm fine everything's fine I'm just like the living the bus tour bus life is like I've been on the bus January 3rd and I'm losing my shit wait you're living on a tour bus I need to understand okay so I'm on tour with Dancing with the Stars and we started our tour January 3rd and we go until the end of March and I like and where are they making you go where are you being toured to like 67 different cities like it's we literally go to a city dance sleep on the bus jason's bye sorry what's he doing was he trying to he's looking around for my

headphones that i actually you know because i just started up this podcast world i don't own headphones that work and i use my sons but then he steals them back for me and now we don't know where they are oh well that's okay literally you can i am living proof that you can podcast with nothing and still make it work still make it work So you're going from city to city. This is like a wild. Do you feel like you're living out some sort of rock star fantasy? Yeah.

I really do, except it's COVID, so we like can't have gangbanks on the bus. Oh, that's a bummer. Yeah. Huge piles of cocaine and just like, you know, heenistic. Yeah, exploits. Yeah, no, I'm really just, I'm literally zooming from my phone. I had to screenshot.

my prep doc notes from my phone, send them to my computer through AirDrop because the Wi-Fi is not working on the bus. Like, it's just been a real treat to try it. Well, I will, I'm so flattered that you would even do this for me. That is so nice. Are you kidding me? I'm fluttered that you would do this for me. Thank you for being on the podcast. Whether you know it or not, we have a lot in common. We do. Tell me. Well, we're both Gemini's and we both are with Jason. So a lot in common. Oh, I like that. When is your birthday? June 19. Oh, I love a June Gemini. They change in June. Oh, tell me more. What do you mean? Well, I'm a May Gemini, May 30th, but I do feel like I prefer Gemini's that are born in June.

The May ones are a little cray, but once you get into June, it's like true Gemini season, and I just feel like it gets really good. Oh, I love that because I also feel like, I don't know if this is a thing, but because I'm on the cusp, I, like, feel like I'm a major cancer as well because I'm, like, super emotional and, like, all of those things. But I'm there to Gemini at the same time. I definitely get Gemini vibes from you. You do? Yeah, for sure. Like the crazy bitch vibes.

Is that what it is? Well, no, just like the fun and also, like, isn't going to take shit and is sort of, like, going to do it your way. I like that about you. Oh, well, thanks. So you're amazing. So what does it say? So you think you're more of a craig? cray one because you're in May I think I'm a borderline crazy but I do have a Libra rising so I think

that balances me out a little bit but then my moon and this is like embarrassing to disclose is Leo which I feel like is like the most narcissistic sign and I'm like wait I'm a fucking Leo so I'm like secretly a Leo this sucks but wait can you can you hear me yes okay We're back. I don't know what that was. I don't know. I immediately checked my Wi-Fi to see if I, like, had fallen off. But I think I'm good. Okay. Yeah, it's Tommy. So we think there's a ghost on the bus named Tommy who f***es with my Wi-Fi all the time because there's always issues. Yeah. Oh, shit. Oh, no.

Is it happening again? No, you're there. Oh, okay. I have somebody that's eating the cords of my. Is that Shirley? This is Shirley. That's the best dog name, Shirley. We need a Laverne, though. I'm on the hunt for a Laverne.

Oh, what kind of dog? Well, do you have like a preference of what kind of dog you want? Well, I'm a poodle person. I just love poodles. They're sort of my religion. But I definitely would take any sort of hypoallergenic type of rescue. We rescued her, even though she looks like she's like, belongs in a Paris Hilton purse. it's sort of embarrassing. When I'm on the street, I've like have to, before anyone even gets through the, what a cute dog you have, I'm shouting out, she's a rescue because she just looks like such a, like, her vibe is a little too intense for me as far as just like her, why she's so cute. But what happened is this girl apparently took her parents credit card, went online and bought all of these crazy exotic cats and small animals from South Korea. And they were shipped here.

So then the parents got wind of it, the animal showed up and they couldn't return the animals. So they called Animal Haven, which is the rescue that I work with in New York City. And they're like, can you take these pets off our hands? So the woman who worked there, I told her maybe like six months ago, yeah, I might be ready for another dog, might. But I wasn't. It's just like it's been six years since my like first husband poodle died. And I think like some days, okay, I'm ready to do it again. yeah and she called she's like jenny i got some poodles and you got to come in and so then we went

down there and because they never really get i don't know for whatever reason this rescue doesn't seem to get a lot of that type of dog yeah and i went down and i saw her and i was like oh i think i have to do it so we rescued her and um she's adorable this is crazy we have even more in common i too rescued my dogs who are from south korea come on i swear wait is it like a problem do your dogs look like they had like the best nose job in the world because I'm like she definitely had work done in South Korea yes they look like show dogs and I'm so confused and they're they're both goals and retrievers it's isn't it embarrassing because you're like I want people to know like my other dog Gina she's from south L.A she looks like a chinchilla mixed

with like an EWalk mixed with like a frackal she's very street in her vibe yeah and now I have this like chuton, a little jute toy dog. It's a little embarrassing. I'm so glad you relate to that. I really do. I really do. Like my, both of my dogs look like they're show dogs. And I'm like, no, you need to know about their humble beginnings because they didn't always like, like I want to know what they look like. Well, I don't because that would be sad. But like when I got, when I first got ramen, he was like so scruffy. And like, he just needed one grooming. And now he looks like a model he's like who me yeah exactly that's literally and he like feels it too he's like he's off the streets now like he's living the big life now it's so funny that's funny is it the same as like dating

like a super hot guy you're like slightly embarrassed wherever you take him you're like yeah yeah but you're like i swear i i did i have a great personality yeah he's funny too yeah it doesn't make sense. Right. They don't make them like that. Okay. I want to talk about the fact that you have adjacent to. How long have you two been together? A while, right? Like 15 years. Okay. Which is amazing. 15 years and he proposed after only six months of knowing you. So, like I want to do like an E true Hollywood story on this relationship and how it's lasted because this is incredible. It's like every red flag. Meet somebody. tattoo their name on you propose marriage what happens what could go wrong right step by step exactly yeah

that's so but like i know you're doing a podcast where you actually it's third called third wheel right yes so you know i got to have you and your jason on yes you do it we need to do you guys but here's the thing jason i would actually love to because i am so open and like raw and honest about relationship stuff, and he's more like, we've got to keep some things private. And I'm like, no, throw it all out there. Who cares? It's relatable. That's interesting. Yes. So does he freak out when you're doing interviews in general? At first, when we first started dating, he was like, oh, God, like, I'm pretty sure I got him fired from his corporate America job when I first met him because I talked about, like, him picking my nose and giving me orgasms. And it was like headlines

in freaking us weekly. And he was like, yeah, I don't know if I could, see with this and I'm like, Bill, I ain't change in any time soon. That's amazing. Yeah. So he's learned. He's learned over the years that this is definitely, it's not changing. And he's kind of started to embrace it. And even he's starting to like open up a bit more.

So I feel like your podcast would be perfect because tell me more about your podcast. So the podcast basically cries into the lives of married or dating or, you know, just couples in general and I'm kind of what I'm trying to sort of figure out is like how does it work? Why does it work? What are the issues? What are, you know, just the true dynamic of being with somebody because so much goes into it. And as you know, relationships are so much work. And if you don't do the work, I mean, like, I think if you're willing to do the work, you'd be surprised, like how many different relationships you could probably make last. But most people are like, see ya. I'm me, you're you, like, I'm out of here.

Yeah. And I think that from the beginning, probably because my parents have been married, you know, 10 times between the two of them, I knew that like, if I'm going to get married, I'm going to commit to this. I don't do anything half-assed. It's like, I'm in this. And Jason's the same way. And we've had our ups and downs.

But there's never, ever been this question of like, are we going to not make it? Because for us, it's like sort of, that's not an option. I remember we actually got engaged and then we were sitting out we eloped at a FedEx Kinkos as one does and we had a real wedding about a month later and we were sitting out, we were in Napa we were outside this house

we were in this huge fight. I don't know why the night before the ceremony and he's like well what what what do you do you just not want to do this and I looked at him I'm like Jason we're already married too late dude we already signed the paper is like a month ago.

Right. This is for show. We're in it, dude. This is it. Like, let's go. So, and that's just been our relationship. We've just kind of like pushed through. Yeah.

And when I'm talking to these people, it's wild because some of them, you know, initially you ask your friends to do your podcast. So a lot of the people I've had on thus far have been either friends of ours as a couple or people that I've worked with or, you know, whatever. And I ask someone. somewhat of the same as I'm sure you do like kind of the same sort of questions when I'm going into it yeah but the they take such different turns and the tone of these interviews it blows my mind how different each one is yeah and never what I expect I'm like wait what

that's who you guys are and sometimes you might like hit a nerve or other times you probably like bring out like this beautiful conversation between the two of them that they didn't even know they needed yeah no they go home and have the best sex of their lives they're like we had the greatest night and then other times they're like weeping and they're like we should probably see a therapist a real therapist jenny not you hey sometimes friends make the best therapist but that's i love i love the concept of the podcast but we should i mean jason i would love to come on that we've done some couples podcast before and like you when you were saying you never know what turn it's going to take that was us we were like oh shit like we didn't know we even felt that way about this

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So it's, is it weird to you to think that you guys are couple goals? Are you just so open and honest with your relationship that you're like, if anybody knows me or listens to me, like, what defines couple goals anyways? It's funny. You know, I was telling somebody recently, Jason and I were fighting terribly, probably December up until maybe just like two weeks ago even we've just been having a hard time just dealing there's just been like so much is happening and I've gotten super busy and raising two kids it's just been a bit insane right now and we both had sort of gotten

to this place where we shut down where like he wasn't willing to kind of like he was too resentful to like come to me vulnerable and I was too much of like I get in like my strong woman mode where I'm like I don't need you yeah I don't need anyone I can do this all by myself and I'll ice you the fuck out as long as I need you know what I mean yeah and we we hadn't we're usually always talking about couples therapists since we met since before we were even married and we hadn't spoken to Beth in a while so we were both just like you know our own sort of corners and I was telling a girlfriend of mine and she's like Jenny it's so funny that you're telling me that you guys are having a hard time right now because online it looks like you guys

get along swimmingly, like you would never know. Yeah. And that's what I find so interesting that like I don't know if it's like they see what they want to see or I'm like duping anybody, but the truth is, is it like we have the ebs and flows that every

single person out there has. Like there's no, I don't know, goal the goal, I feel like if we're couple's goals at all, it's in that we both are willing to evolve and like change our own behavior to be better. yeah yeah like recently i said sorry and like i didn't mean to like put you down and tell you that

like you know whatever you're not like you don't have an as not like agency to like do whatever it was like i'm like god i'm really evolving that i'm able to talk myself back from like the crazy like hyperbolic state i was in yep and own it and it's crazy when you apologize you don't realize how much power there is and apologizing and why is it so hard for us i never want to do it i never ever ever ever want to apologize it is such an issue and jason is jason's the same way like we both have such a hard time because it's i don't know if it's just like it because then you're all a sudden in this like vulnerable place where you're like oh shoot i'm wrong and you're right so now you hold the power like i don't know if that's what it is but yeah it's i'm the same way the

the amount, like, I think about myself in my last relationship from the freaking show, I was, like, a downward spiral at least five times a week. Like, once I started, I couldn't stop. I, like, was out of body experience, like, looking down to myself, being like, who is she? And, like, I was so, and now I'm like, I always thank my therapist and be like, oh, my God, I, I have evolved. And when Jason, they'll say it to me, like, you know, like, yeah, sometimes you're a little, And I'm like, oh, if you only knew me six years ago, like, I am a saint now.

Yeah, I'm killing it now. Yeah, see, you and you and Jason have gone through so many, you know, phases because 15 years, you have evolved probably so much as a couple and individually. And sometimes you're on the same page. And sometimes you're not. Yeah, that must be, I mean, you've been open about going to therapy. You do that, right? Do you find that super helpful? Both individually and.

together. We have always been in therapy. I mean, I think I've always just been in therapy since birth because I don't know. My parents just didn't want to listen to me. Yeah. But, you know, and being like an actress in Hollywood, you have to be in therapy because there's like, the day-to-day rejection will just like drive you into the ground if you're not, if you don't have some sort of outlet. But yeah, so I always been in therapy. But like Jason got sober when we had our son. And so like that changed the relationship a lot. that I sort of got out of the grind of acting and like, you know, kind of started writing and that became, like, that really took over my life and changed just sort of like, I don't know, my goals and like, then us having parents, the anxiety of like loving something so much. And then like it's outside your body and you can't control it. And like every day, it's like slipping, slipping, slipping, slipping away. And then age also like the fears and things that. start to set in when you hit 40, you're like, I'm literally going to die.

I'm literally going to die one day. How do we, how do we start like approaching, you know, and your parents changing? It's just there have been so many different incarnations than like the two people that were like, you know, doing ecstasy together on the set of my best friend's girl. Like then life was so simple. Yes. I sometimes think about that. I'm like, can we just like go back to like blowing lines like off of like strangers and like the

Hollywood Hills? like remember that simple times simpler time i know it's so crazy because like you are you literally like are fearless and this person who barely knows themselves in the in your 20s and then in the 30s you're like oh wait i'm actually starting to get to know who i am and having boundaries and like thinking about family and then you have kids i already have anxiety about my unborn children and how much like that will keep me awake at night because of the exact same things you're feeling and then i'm talking to my dad and he's like going to another funeral this week and I'm like shit you know this person they're dead what stop calling with this everything gets too real when you get older and yeah the age

thing sikes me out I'm only 36 and I'm like already like I don't know I just have the same fears and I don't even have the children yet and it's like yeah yeah everything just becomes so real you start like thinking you're like I'm I was always like when like my like stepbrother's friends still find me hot he was like in high school I was like what happened I had game I was crushing what I'm 36 and now I look back at pictures of myself at 36 I was like I was fucking killing it and nobody told me so I'm here to tell you Caitlin you're fucking killing it own it love it where like the shortest shit you can find like rock it I'm telling you I'm even let anyone make you feel like you're not young enough because you're so

fucking young. Thank you. And I actually do remind myself that because I am wearing the littlest, tiniest costumes on stage every single night. And I look at the mirror and I'm like, I'm okay with this. I'm okay with this because I just had that same realization where every year I'm like, oh, this is going to be, I've peaked. I've peaked. And then I look at, totally. And then I look back and I'm like, oh, I'm like, wait, at 30 years old I thought I had peaked. And I look back down. And I'm like, no, I am crushing still. You're crushing. You were just getting started.

Yeah, I'm just getting started. And 40s are the, I, well, I like, Jennifer Aniston is my religion. Poodles are your religion. Jennifer Aniston is mine where I'm like, she looks great. I feel like she feels great. I feel like she, like, is the one that's like, no, 40s are so great. So I'm like, okay, I can do 40s. 50s, fuck.

It's game over. Yes. I mean, it's so funny. Isn't it crazy? I'm loving these shows now that, like, you know, have these older women with younger men. I just, you know, these, I just think it's so good for people to see because for so long,

I think women were meant to just made to feel like it's over for you. You know, if you're not married with a kid at 30 years old, you're done. And that's such an antiquated, I don't know, like look at J-Lo is she's like, I think she's 50 something. Yeah, she's 50. And it's actually like, that's one where I'm like, okay, now you're just showing off. Like, that, that's just, nobody can look like that at 50 with no, she says she has no Botox. I'm like, what the actual f***?

No. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. That can't be true. She swears by it. And I'm like, that's, I don't know. I've had plenty since I was like 26. So I'm like, I don't understand.

Yeah. I always call my face a pin cushion. When I go into my girl, I'm like, just poke me every. I don't care. Whatever you want to do. Yes, exactly. Oh, that's funny. I wanted to ask you about your book because you said you've gotten really into writing and this book that you wrote is a fiction. Was that so different for you? Oh, yeah, so different. I mean, different in the sense also that like the first two books, I won't say, it wasn't that it came easy, but like I knew what I was doing because I had been writing I had been writing essays online I had contributed to you know different publications and

sort of writing short story essays was just a it made sense and those books probably took about nine months each and so for me I was like okay yeah I'm going to do another book but when I went and met with this agent who actually isn't my agent now but he was somebody I sat down with at the time and I walked in and I thought oh my third book's going to be a mom book because like if The first book is about, like, you know, if it's like a f*** up, I love Lucy. Yeah. And the second book is like the anxiety of like, I always call it like postpartum from the edge where like I became a mom and like lost my shit. Yeah.

Then the third book is like about surrender and about like now what do I do? I'm somebody's mom. So I thought, okay, that's like what like my audience wants. They want the mommy book. Like that was where I was sort of like that was my demo at that particular moment. just had a second kid and I sat down to write that book and I was like really bored because I was writing for the parents magazine at the time every month and I was already like writing that shit and I just didn't that wasn't where my heart was and I went into this agent and he's like well

do you want to tell me what you want to do next or do you want me to tell you what I think you should do and I was like why don't you tell me what you think I should do yeah I just like I wanted to hear him out he's like your last two books did okay I was like well they need the times list he's like so like he's like so not impressed by me just humble the fuck out oh yeah he's like I have way bigger authors than you so and he's not wrong

and so I said tell me what you think I should do and he's like well I think you have a voice for fiction and I think you should I think you should write a novel because I think if you can write fiction you can do anything and I left that day just reeling like what is this guy this guy's on crack like I don't even know what that means I had just written a feature based on the second book. Yeah.

And it was hell. I had like a crazy actress attached. Like it was just not a fun experience. And I was so happy to be like, I'm going back to essays. I'm in total control. And it's just going to be Jenny and that's it. Yeah. But I could not stop thinking about what this guy said.

And I came home to Jason and I looked at what I had had of this proposal. And I said, fuck it. I'm going to just try. So cut to a year. year went by and I showed him what I had and he's like, this is a beautiful disaster. I was like, oh, does that all thanks? I went back to it. It took me another six months. I rewrote it. Still wasn't good enough. Then I took the book out and I started getting passes from big houses that like had repped, I mean, that had like published my other books. And I'm like, wait,

something's not, this doesn't feel right. This doesn't, something's wrong with the manuscript, clearly like it's not clicking so I pulled the submission which you're like never supposed to do but I pulled the submission off the market and I took another fucking year and I was like I'm not putting this in a drawer I refuse this is the story that like I was meant to tell this is a story that I have to tell and I'm going to it's going to haunt me forever even if I have to publish this damn book myself I'm putting this in the world I love that so I went back and I did it again. Then I took it out during the pandemic. And again, people were like, wait, what? Like, we don't want this book from you as an author right now. Like, you're not

author material. You know, like, they think of me as like, oh, you're from Hollywood. You're not, like, highbrow enough for us. And then also, I think people really were having a hard time getting their heads around. Like, you want to write about lower Manhattan influence our moms and the White House is being stormed. Like, it's not the right time. And I kept saying, no, this is the exact right time this is like the world we live in this is happening real life this is I had to write this as fiction because I would burn too many bridges if I told you that this shit was all real and I found somebody who just who said okay let's let's do it and put it out but I mean it's not out yet but it's it's happening and now like hold that's why like when on Instagram if

anybody's like seen my page and like they see me like holding the book or like seeing it for the first time or even like when I was reading the end I just I can't like not get emotional about it because honestly Caitlin this journey has been when I tell you it's been a marathon like it has been so fraught with like so much rejection wow that like this is truly my baby and I believe in it so much I love that that is I mean I could even just tell from the second you started talking about it how passionate you are about it which makes me so excited to read it but I love I can't wait. I can't wait. And I love those stories of when people are told no and they keep pushing and keep doing what they want to do. And then doesn't that like to me, when people tell

me no, it lights a fire under my ass and I was like, oh, watch me. Watch me. Right? Like that, I mean, you know Alon, Gail. He's a friend of yours as well, right? Alon. Yeah, I always talk to Alon about this. It's like, nothing motivates me like rejection. I'm like, fucking tell me I can't do it. Yes, Ilan is such a brilliant, brilliant human being, and that, yeah, I feel like he would be the same way. Okay, I think it's fair to say that life can be pretty damn stressful. And one thing that shouldn't add to the stress of living everyday life is access to health care. Thankfully, getting birth control and sexual wellness products is now one less thing you'll have to stress about. With the pill club, you'll never have to take a trip over to the doctor or wait in line at the pharmacy ever again, which sounds like a dream.

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National Annual Average Insurance Savings by new customers surveyed who saved within Progressive between June 2020 and May 2021. Potential savings will vary, discounts vary, and are not available in all states and situations. Do you guys watch The Bachelor? So we used to, I actually hosted the After Paradise show with Chris. I, oh, yes. Oh my gosh. I do remember that. Yeah.

And I was like, oh, my God, she's going to ask me about The Bachelor because I used to sort of like live tweet it. And I'm sure I said like terrible things about you. Honestly. like you but you know what i mean the setup the whole thing like i i well i adored the bachelor but like i love they were such grapefruits they would throw me and i was always like a lawn like every date happens like on a bed of pillows just like on a like a random boardwalk somewhere you know so like jason i used to just like get high and watch the bachelor and and like talk shit but yeah i was afraid when i saw this offer come from like oh my god she's gonna like fully bring up past tweets of mine and

be like, why did you say this? Oh my gosh. No, not at all. I actually like kind of forgot you even did that. But I do remember back when I was like in in that world like coming in and out of it. I do remember you said funny tweets, but you never said anything that I was offended by. Yeah, maybe I didn't. I don't, I loved you. I would like rooted for you. I talked so much shit about Nick Bile. But like I also like ended up forging a friendship with him at some point. So I think he forgave me to. The worst was when I went to Jaden Tanner's wedding, and I ran into Claire. She was very angry with me. Stop, really?

I don't even know what I had said. Yes. Wait, I was at that wedding. Right? At the montage or no, fair mom. I don't know, something in Laguna somewhere. Yeah, yeah, I don't remember what it was called. But yeah, I was at that wedding.

I was in such a bad place in that point of my life. Oh, my God. Oh, no. Yeah, that was like when I was like, Sean, because obviously we're engaged and I drink wine all the time, but I was doing a month of no drinking and so I was at this

wedding with like eight of my exes and like Sean who was like didn't want to be in the same room as Nick and it was like we were going through such a hard time and I was just sitting there and then all these people wrote into these magazines like Caitlin was so miserable at

this wedding and her and Sean didn't talk to anybody and I was just yes and I was just like, yeah, it was a bad. I was sitting next to Neil Lane. I mean, it was such a weird night. And I kept going back to the bathroom to like reapply eyeliner because everyone around me had so like so much makeup on that I was like Samantha and my sister was with me. I was like, I think we need to like go like bump things up a little bit. Oh my freaking gosh. I love that. Wait, you were sitting with Neil Lane. He is so interesting. That's so funny. And then all of a sudden

Seal was singing Kissed by a Rose and I was like, what is happening? Isn't this weird? And why have I been to so many events where Seal is singing Kissed by a Rose? It feels like that should be a once in a lifetime thing but I've been to numerous sealed Kissed by a Rose event. That is so funny.

I actually ran into Seal at an airport once and I was like, we were like standing outside, standing by each other and I was like, hey, Seal. And he like looked at me and I was like, you sang at my friend's wedding. And he went, which one? And I was like, he's clearly saying that's not a bunch. I was like, oh my gosh, a Bachelor.

And then he was so, he was hilarious. He was like, wait, is that stuff real? Like, does that drama really? And he was all invested in like the Bachelor room. I mean, you have so many fans you probably don't even know about because like everybody's secretly obsessed with The Bachelor. Well, I'll never forget when I went on Kimmel and he was like, Kately, we have watch parties. They're obsessed. Yes.

And he's like, we have watch parties with like Jennifer. Jennifer Aniston and, like, Justin Timberlake, and I was like, huh? Like, what? Yes. No, they're obsessed. That's so funny. This is so funny. I just think that it's just so funny because I'm like, you know, this Canadian who

used to work at a restaurant and all of a sudden I'm like, Jennifer Aniston watches me on television. Kate, Caitlin, get over, Jennifer Aniston. I've brought her up twice now. That's embarrassing. I love this. That's so funny. Okay, I want to just touch on your book for one more second because I love this story about

how hard you worked on it and how you've, like, gone back and forth and all this rejection. So tell us, it's called City of Likes, and it's going to come out in June 2022. And what is the concept? So it's basically about a mom, like, you know, a young mom that moves to Manhattan. And she's sort of in the middle of that existential crisis that I feel like all women find themselves in when they've had kids where like, you're damned if you do, you're damned if you don't. Just like society does it to us as much as we do it to ourselves. But it's like, am I going to work?

Am I going to stay home? Who am I now that I've had kids? Have I done enough with my life to like warrant sort of being a role model to somebody else? Right. And, you know, what is my place? What is my identity? And she meets this influencer, mommy influencer in Manhattan and kind of like falls under her spell in a way where, you know, it's like, I think it has a lot to with just like female friendships and how you find yourself sometimes wrapped up in a narcissist

and how much that person can just like suck you out of your own life and you find yourself doing things you never thought you would do. And you can really just get so, I don't know, wrapped up. And I find that so interesting because like when you're married and you have kids, you have an obligation, right, to like be, be already Batman furling somebody. And now you're forced to sort of be like Bruce Wayne and Batman at the same time because you're being pulled in two different directions and like this person wants you to if you keep feeding them and shine the light on them like nothing feels better it's such a high and it and that's sort of how I think of Instagram it's like if you feed it it feeds you yeah and this Pixar didn't

happen culture is just it gets us into this almost like weird predicament where it's like if I'm so busy curating my life and showing people what a good mom I am, how good of a mom am I really? How present am I in my real life? And like, just this addiction to external validation and kind of, I don't know, like, it's the crazy shit that starts to happen to you. And a lot of it is true and a lot of it like I've had to like you know mask with you know just fictionalized but but like a lot of it is it's just like my my deepest truths and fears and just like crazy I don't know missteps that I've had along the way I cannot wait I love reading so much it's like something that helps me with anxiety it's something that I just like like it I love it

I love it so much, and I've been so into, do you read any Colleen Hoover books? No, I haven't. Okay, but she does all these crazy fictions, and I'm, like, obsessed with it. So I can't wait to read yours because I feel like I will be very into it. I can't wait to give it to you. I always say, like, I started out for the elevator pitch was like, think of Devil Wears Prada if Anne Hathaway and Meryl Streep had sacks. Oh, yes.

Sold. That's where you start. that's amazing i know instagram is just such a funny world where you like start to like adopt other people's demons and then you like i don't know you just go down the suckhole but you also there are instagram accounts out there that are amazing and make you laugh and smile like yours but also your account that makes me hungry dictator lunches tell me about these because it's the lunches you make for your kids um i want someone to make them for me, but tell me about these. It's all, I think, goes back to, like, how you were

parented, right? So I think who we are as parents is such a, it's, it's a direct reflection of, like, who we had as parents. Yeah. And it's our reaction to that that, like, you know, I think just informs, like, every choice we make. And with dictator lunches, it started off as just, like, a way for me to sort of sublimate my own guilt about being a working mom. Yeah. I was talking, I just talked to Katie Couric about she had a book come out and it was a memoir and talked a lot about like the duality of being Katie where it's like she's working but she has these kids or is you know America wants her to be America sweetheart but like truly who she's more of like a Chelsea handler like at heart when you really talk to her. And and I said to her like, God, like I get that and I feel that so deeply because I have so much guilt around working and wanting to work. And she's like, you know what's funny. I never felt guilt for. working and when I think about it now I'm like oh yeah like she probably she didn't have a mom that worked so she doesn't have the trauma right that I have of like a mom that was never around but when you have a when you grow up with a mom that was never around and then you're a mom that needs to

work you feel like your injuries are your child's injuries to end up projecting all of your pain onto them and like the lunches for me were a way of like showing up it's like that's my handwritten note they get to take that to school it's my my way of, like, communicating with them and telling them a story, even when I'm not around. Yeah. And I'm just, like, such a big believer that, like, it's so weird in America how we, like, dumb down food for children. It's like, as if you're feeding your dog, it's like, why should my kid have to order,

like, a hamburger with, like, you know, I don't know. And, like, fucking fries, well, I'm going to sit here and have, like, a nice piece of salmon with whatever. Right. It's bizarre that there's a children's menu anywhere. It should be the same. and I'm also like not a big fan of this like let's hide the food in like smoothies or I'll do that but like I want my kid to say I know what broccoli looks like I like broccoli I eat broccoli not like oh I like muffins that are green sometimes I have no idea why you know and not know until like later years later it's revealed oh there was spinach in that muffin right so it's been about like you know wanting to instill my kids with this like healthy understanding of like food and relationship to their body and getting them to be exposed to all

different types of food and like I don't know telling making them laugh and making myself laugh when I'm like bored in the kitchen at night with nothing to do I love it I already think these things about how I'm going to talk to kids about food and the relationship with food do you follow this account or have you heard of it it's it's called like eating in color or food in color or something like that yes kids eat in color kids eat in color yes that one i'm like okay i'm already like following that account for my future children like what happens if i don't even have kids i'm fuck that's like my my brain it's such a good account that it really is but my i'm like my brain just like goes to what i'm going to be like as a mom all the time speaking of you having kids

i always think about like what i'm going to tell my kids about like being the bachelor and dating 30 men and how i like had sex with more than one person and i'm sure people ask you guys this all the time, but how do you tell your kids that your husband pie on the movie? Like, is that a conversation you think about having? Well, I always think about that. I'm like, God, you know, like somebody said to me, they commented on one picture of me like, I don't know. I had like, I was getting like a vitamin drip somewhere and I was having intravenous vitamins put in me. And they're like, what, oh my God, what are your children going to say? And I'm like, my husband's famous for fucking a pie. I have bigger fish to fry.

than getting a fucking B-12 drip, okay? I don't know. I mean, like, you could Google pictures of both of us having, like, simulated sex. So, like, there is a point where I'm sure I'm going to have to have that conversation. Yeah. But I don't know. You know, it is what it is.

And I think it's kind of, I'm not ashamed. Like, I don't have a lot of, like, shame around, like, that kind of stuff. No, you shouldn't at all. I'm more scared that they're going to be like, why did you write? you know why did you write this about me or you know for me like my paranoia is always like I don't show their faces like I just can't do it I cannot and I know a lot of even my friends like show their kids online I personally cannot cross that line I can't do it uh it scares me but I worry sometimes with like my oversharing and I've toned it down but like you know there was like

an incident that happened with Sid a few years back and I posted something online because I felt like other moms it would help other moms feel like less alone and now when you Google me like that comes up and it bums me out because I'm like he's I don't know like I have to relive that trauma now and so there are things that I regret sharing yeah maybe about them but nothing about myself like share I feel like if you parent your kid in the way that you should you're you're going to be the least interesting person ever to them they're never going to read our books or want to watch our movies because they're going to be like, I got enough of their attention. I don't like need to know more about my mom. Like I have had enough. That's true. This is like me where I'm like

constantly like still searching for my parents' approval. Hopefully like they'll have enough growing up that they won't need to like. Well and I feel like if they're your both of your kids, they're going to have a sense of humor and oh yeah. You know, they'll be able to understand that kind of humor which gosh that I grew up. One of my favorite like memes out there is like how is a culture that grew up on Family Guy Simpsons and South Park offended by so many things. Like, because I'm like... Oh my God, what a good question.

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Yes, it's such a good point. I think about it all the time. I'm like, and I still like, we'll watch South Park on the bus sometimes on here, and I'm just like, how is this show still going? Like, I... Right?

It's so funny and it's so current and I love... Do you know the, like, the documentary they did six days to air? No, but I know. need to see that so south park is always just so um like current and always discussing current events and making fun of it because they will they'll do it in six days because obviously the budget for like doing the cartoons is low whatever right i knew that they had to do it fast right yeah they have six days to air i think they made a documentary about it that's pretty cool so i have to check that out yeah i love them i know it's amazing they're so good okay also i always make my guests confess

something to me on the pod and it's that time okay Okay, so here's my confession. Recently, I'm not sure if you're familiar with this game, Roblox. Yeah, I've heard of it. Okay, so it's like this thing that all the kids are playing. And I kept telling my son, Sid, I was like, you're not getting that. I'm not, it's a racket. They just want your money.

You know, when you, when you're on the game, basically the game is free, but then you have to everything in the game to, like, trick out your character, make him cool, what have you. And so, like, you know, Sid was home one night and he had nobody to play with and he was freaking out. He's like, I just want, I'm so lonely, you know, milking it, just working me. So I literally download the game on my phone. I get on. And let's say his name is like, I don't know, like, Dungeon Slayer 2. I become Dungeon Slayer 2's mom. And now I'm fucking following him in the game. And And our cousin, or his cousin, was like, Sid, there's a lady. She's following you. He's like, no, it's just my mom. So I'm, like, following them around, like, on, like, all of these different, like, missions in this game. And within seconds, after all I've done for the past, like, six months is bitch about

these games and they just want the parents money and, like, you could rack up all that. Like, it's just, it's stupid. And you don't have anything at the end. Yeah. I literally am like, Sid, get in my car. He's like, you don't have a new car. You don't have a good car.

You're a new. And a noob is like, means like you're new in the game. You're a noob. I'm like, get in. I literally within 10 seconds of being on this game, bought myself, spent $20 on iTunes, bought myself like a Ferrari and like a McMansion. He's like, mom, like so pissed, so jealous. And like I was fully like sucked in.

I'm like, what else can we get? He's like, mom, you're wasting your money. But like I was under just like, I'm like, I'm in now. And so then he only play on the weekend and I put him in bed. like two nights ago, he's like, mom, did you, tell me the truth? Did you go back on? And I was like, I might have gone back on. And he's like, why?

And I was like, just to feed one of the pets. And he was like, are you kidding me? So like, it's so embarrassing. You're fully in. Yes. I fully like have fallen prey to the world that is Roblox. Now I'm intrigued. I'm like, do I need to get on this game?

No, don't get in. It's so stupid. It's like so dumb. It's a suckle. It's a suckhole. It's so bad. And they took your money. Oh, yeah, totally.

I've spent like 40 bucks at this point. It's so stupid. Oh, my gosh. And I have nothing to show for it. That's, I mean, I hope my girlfriend doesn't listen to my podcast. I don't know if she does or not, but I fully will spend money on words with friends to beat her because she's so good. Oh, my God. Oh, that's hilarious.

Oh, my. That is my confession for the day. I, because it, it, um, relates to yours but I fully spend money on like like it's not cheating it's you can just buy coins to get like secret like sneak attacks I get it I feel you oh gosh well yeah okay I'm glad we're on the same page with that one it's okay that's you know that's what the confession part of this podcast is for is for you to get something off your chest and then we can say it's okay it's okay yes it is okay i feel good about this i feel better perched in fact yeah there

you go you're welcome you're welcome uh last last thing i want to know just because i do i really love your honesty and how you talk about relationships and just everything that you're doing so what do you think the best piece of advice is for relationships um for people listening you you got you got to you got to know that like everything comes down to self-esteem so it's like If somebody, if you're in a fight, it's never one person. It's never like just them. Like, your self-esteem is being triggered too. And every fight in the world comes back to like, you're making me feel not good enough.

And then you're making somebody else feel not, they're making you not feel not good enough. And when you really like parse it out and you start to see it like that, it's like, it's so easy to get out of the fight. Because you're like, I have thoughts and things to say, but it has nothing to do with not thinking you're worth. And if I'm making you feel like you're not worthy, then I need to like rethink how I'm approaching you. And I think that can like change so much. That's such a good point. If I checked my ego, I would have the healthiest relationship. Yeah. Well, I mean, if we both did. But that's probably so many people. We just get to our defenses. It's like you just want I don't want to be bad. I don't want to be wrong. And you know, it just spirals. It's so weird because I'm totally okay with being wrong in

friendships or apologizing in friendships. And like with any anything else, I feel like I have such a healthy relationship with all of my friends. And then when it comes to Jason, I'm like, no, fuck you. I'm right. Yeah. Oh, for sure. Oh, my God. For sure.

Totally. So stupid. So stupid. Well, I freaking can't wait to read your book and I can't wait to listen to your podcast. I'm just, I'm a big fan after talking to you. I already was before, but now even more so. I really enjoyed talking to you. Oh, it was the best.

I love talking to you. And I'm going to send you the book. And you guys have to. come on my show. Okay, great. Well, we'll podcast. And thank you so much for being on today and working with my shit Wi-Fi over here. No, it was my pleasure. Thank you for having me. Of course. Okay, enjoy your day and we'll talk soon. And break a like tonight. Thank you. Take care. Bye. I'm Caitlin Bristow. I'll see you next Tuesday. Thanks for listening to Off the Vine with Caitlin Bristow. Get new episodes every Tuesday exclusively on

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