Off The Vine with Kaitlyn Bristowe - Julianne Hough | Dancing Through Life: On Family, Fame, and Finding Herself! (REPEAT)

Episode Date: October 9, 2025

#883. REPEAT OUR GREATEST HIT EPISODES:In this episode of Off the Vine, Kaitlyn Bristowe sits down with the multi-talented Julianne Hough, who’s got a lot to share! From her roots in ballroom dancing—thanks to a family legacy—to her evolution as the host of Dancing with the Stars, Julianne reveals the challenges and triumphs of her journey. She opens up about her new book, Everything We Never Knew, and the raw, emotional experiences that shaped it.Hear Julianne discuss how she navigated the highs and lows of love, her “death hole pit of sh*t era,” and why she’s never felt more empowered as an almost 36-year-old woman. Plus, Julianne talks about the exciting new music she’s writing that ties into her book, and spills   behind-the-scenes stories from her iconic roles in Footloose and Safe Haven. Whether it’s dancing, dating, or digging deep into her artistic side, Julianne Hough is ready to share it all. Don’t miss this candid, heartfelt, and inspiring conversation!If you’re LOVING this podcast, please follow and leave a rating and review below! PLUS, FOLLOW OUR PODCAST INSTAGRAM HERE!Thank you to our Sponsors! Check out these deals!Better Help: Our listeners get 10% off their first month at BetterHELP.com/VINE.Bombas: Head over to Bombas.com/vine and use code vine for 20% off your first purchase.Quince: Go to Quince.com/vine for free shipping on yourorder and 365-day returns. Now available in Canada, too!Wayfair: Get organized, refreshed, and ready for the holidays for way less. Head to Wayfair.com right now to shop all things home. Wayfair. Every style. Every Home.EPISODE HIGHLIGHTS: (2:05) - Julianne shares how dancing is in her DNA, with both her parents and grandparents being dancers!(38:09) - Julianne opens up about her experiences with love, relationships, and the journey to truly knowing herself.(48:44) - Julianne reveals for the first time that she’s been writing music to accompany the themes in her new book, Everything We Never Knew.(56:58) - Behind the scenes of Safe Haven: Julianne reminisces about working with Josh Duhamel and the bond they formed.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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now available in Canada too. Wayfair, get organized, refreshed, and ready for the holidays for way less. Head to Wayfair.com right now to shop all things home. Wayfair, every style, every home. You're listening to Off the Vine with Caitlin Bristow. Hey, Vino's, real quick,

if you are listening right now, which obviously you are, You wouldn't be hearing this. Can you hit the subscribe or follow button on whatever platform you're on? Please, that one simple thing helps more than you even realize it allows me to keep growing on this podcast and making these episodes the best they can possibly be obviously for you. That's the only favorite I'm going to ever ask, okay? It truly means the world to me.

Thank you. Now let's get into it. Hey, everybody, welcome to Off the Vine. I'm your host, Caitlin Bristow. Sydney, how great was Julianne Huff? Oh, she was the best. I just like, I don't know what it is about some people, but I was just staring into her soul the whole time. And I feel like she had very important things to say. Yeah. And you could tell

she's just like been on this healing journey. She wrote a book. She's in footloose. She was in Rock of Ages. She was one of the best answers I've ever seen in my life. She was very public about you know, her relationships, her divorce. She's kind of gone through a lot. I think it's interesting too to talk to people who grew up in such a Mormon community and certain religion to kind of figure out who they are later in life and maybe separate themselves from that. But I just love listening to her perspective on a lot of things. And I feel like her and I were, I was like, friends. Yeah, 100%.

You saw that, right? I did say that. I feel like everybody's going to like this one. 100% okay. Thank you so much for coming and doing this. Thank you. I'm excited. I know we've been talking about it for a minute trying to get you on.

Just DMing each other constantly. I love it. I've had Derek on a few times. Also, Mirrath is my realtor. I know. I was going to bring that up. I love it. It's a family affair.

We love it. It's so funny. And I always tell Derek, I'm like, it is so bizarre to me how everyone in your family is beautiful on the inside and out and talented. I'm so confused. Oh my gosh. You're so kind. Thank you. But we're like, it's crazy. Yeah, but we got all other sets, you know, sorts of mental health issues. I mean, that's every family ever. It's if you want to talk about it or not because we all have it. I know, we do. No, no, no. Honestly, I'm so grateful. I have the best sisters, my mom,

my dad, my brother. Even though it's like, you know, blended family now. I mean, we, we really lucked out and we just love each other so much and like yeah it's awesome it you can just tell and I just like were your parents I feel like Derek's told me this before but I can't remember were your parents like dancers yes singers and singers and all the things like it's like we were definitely born into it both grandparents on both sides were dancers and then my mom and dad met on the ballroom dance team in college and then yeah we basically were coming out of the womb cha-chaing and it was like fully that's incredible i always say like i grew up dancing but when i got to do dancing with the stars i was like wait i thought ballroom would be like easy to pick up because i was like

well i danced my whole life yeah so hard it's like everything that you have about like the freedom of expression and dance you have to almost like tighten it right and like perfect it and then like find that expression too it's it's the hardest thing i couldn't believe how hard it was especially on the body. Yeah. Honestly, that's the best part about doing Dancing with the Stars

is like, you're like, oh, I think I'm coming to do this like dance show and not realizing that like, you know, football players, these extreme athletes are like,

this is the hardest thing I've ever done for my body ever. And like, yeah, you get like snatched as like a, you know,

nice result, but like not the, not the actual like goal, but you just get it, you know. You can't help it when you're in the studio eight hours a day.

Exactly. And the show's long, too. It is long, yeah, it is. I remember, I was getting there, I think I got there at the end of August and went home after Thanksgiving. Yeah. No, it's long. That's, and you just love hosting it. I do.

You're so good. Thank you. That was, I'm telling you, that was my dream job when I knew that Tyra was not going to be anymore. And when they picked you, I went, now that makes sense. I was like, that I can handle that because I was like messaging Dina and Rob Mills. And I was like, hey, hey, hey, hey. And then I saw. you get it? And I was like, no, that's, yes.

Thank you for saying that. Thank you. Alfonzo. And your chemistry is so perfect. You know what? I totally love that you're saying that because there's been so many things that I've auditioned for and I've been like so heartbroken that I didn't get it. And then I'm like, oh, but that makes sense. And like, I'm happy for them. Yes. And like sometimes though, I'm like, that does not make sense and I'm still heartbroken. It's not fair. That is very real. I totally should have got that. That is real. That is real. That's how I was going to feel so. this audition that I just did

if I didn't get it I was going to be like what because it went so well so much sense too probably but I used audition like back I lived in Vancouver for 11 years and I used to audition for car commercials or dancing like old Navy would be doing something so for dance and I'd always be like I never got called back

ever and I would come out there being like I nailed it and then I'd never hear back and I'm like it really set me up for like the nose that I would take in life the next decade but of course yeah it was really crazy those nose are important man they are important they're really important yes so the girl um sarah blakesley do you know who that is yes oh my gosh she's like mentor dream and she doesn't know it yes she's my mentor she doesn't know it i absolutely i look up to her

so much and she was saying that she was saying that her dad at dinner like would they'd sit down as a family at dinner and her dad would ask like her biggest failures of the week and like they talk about how important those are in life totally i mean i'm on like an inside out kick right now because i just saw the second one oh my god i love inside isn't it isn't it so good i mean i love so good i know well i'm literally riley all my emotions are like that that's just me i know hormones i know right well by the way i mean i wish that i had that when i was a kid because yeah like you could actually put a name to a feeling you know but no i'm like such on that kick because i'm like i love so much that they didn't make any one of those emotions

like they were bad. They're all necessary. They're all there to like, you know, do something for you as long as one's not just like in control constantly. Yeah, they've all got to like change places and come in and out. It's so interesting because as an adult,

I like seen cartoon anything does weird things to my soul where I'm just like, I watch him on repeat. And yes. Like I'm like, oh my God, there's something about the nostalgia. but then there's a message and then it's just comforting and inside out I was like I said the same thing I wish I had something like that well it's funny you see the memes now I just got chills it's like kids watching inside out and they're like oh I love this adults watching inside out I feel so seen you know I remember I remember trying to understand the feeling of anxiety as a child and there was not the name anxiety for it and I remember sitting with my mom on my bed and just having pure panic and I couldn't breathe and I was freaking out and I didn't know if I was going to throw up or faint and all

it happened to me a lot and I remember just being like I'm sick like I must be sick and I'd go to the doctor all the time with me or something's wrong and I would convince myself that I was just like sick all the time and now I look back I'm like oh my god I had OCD and anxiety yeah totally and it would have been just so helpful and that charge just immediately goes yes right oh my gosh my OCD with I always liked things being even so if my breath in was shorter than my breath out I thought something was happening. Yeah. And now I...

Well, let me... I'm here to tell you something. I learned that that's actually like the proper way to breathe is I think like five counts in and six to seven out and that it should be that way. Yeah. And I'm like, man, if anyone could have just told me that... Right. And it's just interesting because as a fragile little human child, you're just like, you think everything is such a big deal. Totally.

It's so true. Well, by the way, I know you have like a whole list of questions and everything. But like, this is basically what... what my book is about. Really? It's everything we never knew is the title because it's all these things that like are within us that like we've suppressed forever

and we're just trying to figure out who we are and it's all within us. We just need to like actually let it come out. So we'll get there, I'm sure. Well, yes, but it's actually, that's a perfect segue because I am curious how to unpack it all because I do feel like there's so many things. I'm 39.

I've been doing therapy since I was 26. Yeah. And I'm still learning, like, I just had the biggest aha in my last therapy session of what she calls the window of tolerance where if something happens to me, like, say, and it could be not a big deal. Like, I see something online that bothers me. I will immediately go into, like, this hyperactive, like, fight or flight, freak out. Emotions are bigger and stronger than me.

I can't deal with it. And I panic. And then because I'm so overwhelmed by it, and then I realize five minutes later, like, it's not that big of a deal. And then I just drop into like the disassociating phase, but I never just take in something that hurts my feelings in the window of tolerance. And there's a whole chart for it and just seeing it. I was like, oh my gosh. And I've just realized I've done Hoffman. I've done all this inner child work. I've done all these things. But I'm still unpacking so many things that have been buried down there. Well, and also, by the way, just even that, like, I remember hearing the

word manic and like you know my mother has manic tendencies and has her and my entire life but that word has such a negative connotation because it's like manic bipolar all those stuff yeah manic is just extremes yeah right going from one extreme to the other and like to feel exhausted like that that whiplash that's just survival you know and like we're so now especially I hate using this word because everybody does but in society that we live in today yeah it is like Everything is so extreme. So like we're literally whiplashing constantly and then just like our bodies are so exhausted. It's true.

And so we go from like hyperfocus to like, I just want to sleep. I'm so tired. While we're all trying to do so much at once, like for work and career and life and social media and everything, it's like impossible to keep up with everything. Well, I'm one of those people that I'm like, I have to protect my self-care so much because we do so much. right and it's like obviously my goal is to try to be a little bit more balanced so I don't have to go from like work work work to like I'm on a retreat for five days of self-care yeah and then your body gets sick because it's like forcing you to slow down yeah but I mean but that's like that's been the last few years for me I'm like okay how do I be less manic in my behaviors and

my my energy and just try to be a little bit more like this that is me right now I'm trying so hard to find that balance and I'm like it's really become top of my priority list to do that because usually it's been like what's next what am I doing for work how much income is coming in what is this this and now I'm like okay that's there but more importantly I am wearing myself out to like exhaustion beyond belief and it's really affecting my mental health yeah and so is that kind of what inspired you to write the book is because you're like wait we're all going through this. I think that, but also like, you know, my, my childhood and my family and my, my history of how I left home at nine to live with a Russian family to dance. And then, you know, to live in England.

And everything was about achieving and success and competition and winning. And it was like, I mean, I didn't even, I thought energy was my superpower. And I was like, I just have so much energy. I can do this. And I didn't realize it was anxiety, you know? And so, so yes. anxiety can be a really good thing sometimes. It can really, like, put you into focus mode. It can help you achieve things. But if that is your autopilot, oh, my gosh. Yeah.

Relating? Yeah, yeah, it's exhausting. And so, like, honestly, I remember sitting on the floor one day and being like, if I don't change my lifestyle, I'm going to get sick. Maybe not now, but down the road. Yeah. Because my adrenals are shot. Like, my cortisol is just way high.

And I didn't even know what any of that was. was growing up but now I've been like obviously trying to learn more so so that was like kind of the beginning was just like oh my gosh I am on hyper drive and then I went through massive transformation with like kind of my whole world kind of unraveling when I started really going on this healing journey yeah and you know I heard something other day that was like you know to evolve you have to eliminate and and that's scary because anytime you eliminate anything or change anything, it's loss. Yeah, which is then grief. And we don't know how to process grief. We don't know how to process grief. We don't know how to process grief. Because we've

just been taught like, okay, death. More, more, more, more. Yeah. Death is lost. That's when you grieve. We aren't taught to grieve people, jobs, environments, circumstances. Yes. Yeah. When it, it really is a loss that your body feels and you get that trapped trauma in there that you don't know how to get out. Totally. Yeah. So this is what you, this is your book. So yeah. So it's my book. So it's my book. So basically, I've gone through so many different iterations of life. And a lot of people were like, you should write an autobiography. And I was like, I'm not done yet. And also there was like a bit of fear, to be honest.

I used to be so open about everything in my life. And then it was like, oh, I'm just giving everybody ammo to have the narrative over me. I was like, hang on, wait. I need to rein it back in. So I was like, how do I share the lessons and the universal things? themes that I've gone through, loss, betrayal, abandonment, grief, you know, like all these different things that I went through, but through a fiction lens so that I can share all of these things, but it doesn't feel so scary for me to reveal all of my intimate details.

But also, for people who are also going on sort of like the beginning self-discovery journey, it can be a different way to experience it, so it doesn't feel so heavy or something. scary it can be an adventure and a journey and it can be fun and i always say that it's like you know the fear of change versus the joy of transformation yeah and it's easier said than done of course but that was that was really the goal with the book yeah i feel like so many people could read it and take something away from it too like it doesn't even have to be someone who's like just first starting to like go on their healing journey it could be because you never or it could even activate it you know what i mean like oh totally i never even thought like that yeah yeah

Yes, and sometimes that's all you need is, I mean, the book's probably very validating to people to just, that's even why, like, sometimes, like, I'm so into tarot card reading just because of the validation that can come with it, and it just gives you a little sense of peace. I'm so, you know, whatever, you can call it woo-woo, or you can just call it. I'm so woo-woo. And, like, I feel like whatever you believe, you know, like, if you have a belief in something, that's amazing. It could be the belief that you don't believe it. Right. Just believe it. You know what I mean?

Yeah. So true. And so it's like those tarot cards, you're going to read something and you're going to get whatever you need from it. It doesn't mean that it's going to predict the future or whatever. But whatever you're going to take from it, you're going to take from it. And that's great. So this book is also about Saturn's Return. I don't know.

Oh, my gosh, yes. I almost called it Saturn's Return because it was everything that was happening in my life that was the unraveling was during that time period. And I was like, what is this? And obviously, for those listening, Saturn's Return is when your birth chart, it's like when you're, you were born, all the planets were aligned at the exact position, and it happens every 30 years or so. So when that happens, it's like you either choose to unpack the things that you've learned that have, like, created conditions and belief systems and stuff, or you unravel that and come back to your most authentic self. Yes. This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. So October 10th is

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That's B-O-M-B-A-S.com slash vine, code Vine at checkout. I'm 39, and I really feel like this year specifically, it's weird to me how much I'm trying to come back to myself of like not Caitlin who's on The Bachelorette, not Caitlin who did Dance With the Stars, not Caitlin on social media, like really who I am and want to be in the legacy

I want to live and like everything that like is true and authentic because I'm like I love having social media and I love having a platform. And like you, I was always such an open book and I'm starting to feel like I need to keep things more sacred to myself. Exactly like you said, because of the narrative that other people can write and say

and they always will if you have, you know, any sort of name or platform. And even just like getting into a next relationship, I'm like, I just want to keep it so sacred and private and not let people in. And I'm just, I'm entering this new chapter and I'm sure you're like aware of numerology with the 10 year cycle. I'm like, I'm really in that because 29 is when I went on The Bachelor. I'm like, everything got crazy. And I'm like, it's so interesting and fascinating for me to, I'm like in the weirdest, stickiest place right now. But I'm like, I've never seen more light at the end of the tunnel ever in my life.

because I'm like, I see what I'm going through right now. I see what's happening and I know it's like icky and weird and I'm figuring it all out, but I'm like, I see the light. Yeah. And it's so exciting. It is. It really is. And like, I don't know. I'm one of those people that just, I love complexity because it makes me feel like a full human and like other people's complexities and just a deep understanding.

And when you're not connected to that within yourself, it's really hard to see other people and have that kind of empathy. compassion. And for the longest time, I was disconnected to myself. So I couldn't relate to other people. And then you just kind of adapt and mold into whatever people want you to be. And that's social media. You become creating, you create a caricature of what people want you to be. It's all an illusion. And then you're like, wait, I don't even, I don't even know what. So the more I've like, de-layered, I lost a lot of followers because I wasn't the person that people discovered me as and I've changed so much and I'm so happy that I have and I've come closer and closer to who I am and by the way it's never ending so it's going to continue to shift and change but then

the other people are following because it's more connected and again eliminate when you evolve and like I it's okay I literally am like at church right now because I truly have been thinking about this because again I try and like really think about what social media is to me and of course it's a business and it's like who I am but I get wrapped up and like oh my god why is everyone unfollowing me and blah blah and it is it's because I'm a woman even just said in a very nasty way about how I've changed and I'm like good yeah because I like who I am better right now who I've changed into you might not like it because you might not be evolving yourself and that might scare you totally but I have changed and I've lost followers and I did this 10 minute

meditation maybe 15 minute meditation around visualizing really awful unaligned people exiting the scene and that's the followers that I'm losing and making space for the next chapter of my life to bring in new people and it was like so powerful to just even just visualize that and be like yeah that doesn't matter yeah because if you're truly working towards like I'm like I'm cringed out by the like let's try and go viral let's try this it doesn't feel authentic to me and I'm like there's things that I want to do and of course I want to grow my social media but I want to do it in a way that feels so right to me that is like also inspiring other people to live

like a more authentic life for themselves and we're all just copying each other shit on social media which could be fun of course because there's funny things out there but it makes you get lost in like who am I and what am I doing this for anyway yeah well there's like there's this like knife sedge of like this way or that way and it's like manifestation is amazing right yes but if I'm a master forced manifester by way I can manifest crazy shit yeah sorry can I say shit yeah you can say whatever yeah like same I can it's crazy mm-hmm but that's all come from willpower or not all of it but a lot of it has come

from willpower and desire versus like and is my body is my energy in complete like expansion and sorry now this is will-woo guys yeah I know I love it is it in complete like harmony and and like in the right frequency that's not forced? Yes. And is it actually an allowed manifestation versus versus like pinpointing and forcing it? Because like that's been my biggest change is like I don't even know technically what's best for me. But I can think I do and then get that thing and then realize, wait, I created that

versus higher power or what you need really. Yes. Yes, my whole, when I turned 39 recently, I was like, I'm going to come up with a couple words that I really want to, like, think of daily. And it was surrender and magic. Yeah. Like, I just want to, like, surrender to what the magic is. The magic is. Like, I know that who I am is, like, I just feel like I have magic inside of me.

And I feel like I want to share it with people, but I also want to keep it to myself. And I'm trying to, but I just have to, like, let go into, like, what feels right. Everything's just got to feel good. Yeah. Well, that's, even when I do like vision boards and stuff, instead of visualizing what looks good, I really try to be like, what do I want to feel? Yeah, me too. When I design my house in each room, I'm like, what do I want to feel in this room? What do I want to feel in this room?

Like, feeling is, I think, the biggest key because that changes your mindset. Yeah. And then your mindset can obviously do a bunch for you. I can't remember who came on my podcast, but it was going into the new. year. So sometime around January. She totally flipped my perspective on what I wanted versus how I want to feel. And just even from January to June, focusing on that has done some pretty crazy things for me. And same thing. I bought a new house. I got out of a relationship. I bought a new car. And I just, I've been looking for a house for three years. And I literally bought the house from your sister. Because of I walked in and how it made me feel. And I could see myself in it. And each room had a different feel. And I could see myself in it. And each room had a different feel. feeling to me and like even now my friends who totally understand how like my brain works with energy and feeling and all of that kind of thing they're like this feels like your house like yeah and it's just it's such a that's that's when you know yeah when you're like I can

like drop into this versus like it's good right it's good right yeah yeah you like it's exactly right yes I wasn't like searching for I was like this is how I feel it's how I want to feel I did the same thing I just did a vision board a three months months ago about how I want to feel and certain things. And already I'm like, oh, I mean, it's happening. I mean, by the way, what is it? Like, all our parents want for us is to be happy. Yes.

Right? Yeah. Like, happy isn't a thing. Like, it's a feeling. It's a feeling. And so, like, you know, I have this joke with my friend. Do you know Rihanna, the hairstylist? Yes, yes.

Okay. So Rihanna and I are always, like, sending people, or sending each other, like, places to live outside of the U.S., like, not because, like, we don't love the U.S., we love America. But the mindset is, again, beautiful in the fact that we're all dreamers and anything is possible. But then that also is very, like, isolating in the fact that it's all about I and what I want and dream big. But, like, what is the feeling that I want to feel every day? And, like, I am exhausted every day.

Or, like, I love that I'm capable of doing all these amazing things. And I don't want to stop that. But that cannot be my driving force anymore. Like my feeling has to be my driving force. I've been trying to work on this so much. And I went to, so there's this energy healer in Nashville that I love going to. And basically he told, so my friend and I both go and sometimes we'll just share little tidbits and pearls that he gives us. And my girlfriend was like, he said, because she's been feeling really anxious and I have anxious thoughts and I go very, very intrusive in the middle of the night, like really dark thoughts.

and they're like think about those things are all anxiety and like intrusive thoughts are always going to happen and then it's like and we also have this beautiful thing like notice the like I'm having this nice conversation with you and we get to like connect over things that we both believe in and the anxiety is still there and we can think about it later and then we can focus on like the cuddling the dogs when I get home is one of my favorite feelings it's like we have so many different feelings in a day totally and happiness is in there. all times and it's okay to not like just have to be it all the time yes yeah notice it's there it's there it's going to be there and also focus on what else is around you i mean that's obviously what gratitude is and it's yeah no joke that people write gratitude journals and feel better after a week of doing that like it is it's about that it is so your book is what do you mean it's fiction okay so basically i was like how do i tell my story without giving my personal details, names, et cetera. But tell it in a heightened supernatural way.

And so I don't know if anybody knows my history over the last few years, but I started a company called Kinergy. And it's all based in the elements. It's meditation. It's movement. It's energy. It's everything that I connected to when I was going through this massive healing journey. And when I started that healing journey.

healing journey, it really unraveled everything that I put into place to protect me subconsciously. So when I got married, when I had an assistant that was my best friend, I, you know, there were like my house and like my work and my dogs that I had, they represented safety and unconditional love. Like I had created all of this safety around me that was all external. and great it was amazing and it helped me in that moment but then once I actually decided I need to go on this healing journey I can't find safety in anybody any environment my dogs even I have to find that within myself and I started going through that and I went through a lot of child healing work and as I went through that I realized wow like I don't feel safe ever yeah and like I have completely

shut that part off from me and so so yeah so as I was going through this healing journey I was like I want to tell this story and again I don't want to give details of my life so I'm like how do I say this without giving the book completely away but I but basically it's about a woman yeah and she has seemingly her life put together as perfectly as possible perfect husband perfect job perfect house perfect environment perfect friends all these things literally what could go wrong and then one night she is at a gala with like her real estate firm and she's like the top seller always she's about to go and get her award and she sees somebody and she's like I don't know if I know this person but all of a sudden she's like wait there's like this big cloud of like dark gray I don't

know what's around him but oh my gosh all of a sudden I feel like I'm I can't breathe and I'm like underwater and I'm tasting salt water and like all of her senses start getting activated and then she starts hearing screaming of like save him save him and it's this woman's voice and she's like freaking out she's thinking she's going crazy and that's like the catalyst of she's having these supernatural experiences everybody around her thinks she's going crazy but what's actually happening is she's opening to this new sense spiritual sense and of course she thinks she has to go on this journey to help and save other people. And while she goes on her journey, to cultivate these superpowers, she realizes, oh, I have to heal myself first. And so she goes through these different

lessons. And each lesson that she goes through is through the lessons of the elements, earth, fire, water, air. And as she like really goes through these lessons, she starts healing herself. And there's just so many amazing, beautiful characters around her, too, that we have mentors everywhere we go. We have friendships that like don't believe us and they need to leave or that really support you and you're like, wow, like I am so loved and I didn't even realize that you were actually there all along. When these friends that I thought were there completely left because they didn't know how to handle me at the time of my grieving. So all of these themes are throughout the book and the book is, I did it with Temple Hill who they're the production company

that is twilight. And so like, I'm like, I'm like, we got to make this into a TV show or a movie or something. Oh, I could see that. And so, and yeah, so, like, I really wanted it to feel supernatural. And so there's just, like, all these heightened things that are happening to her. And I will say, I've had a few of those supernatural experiences and had a lot of people be like, oh, she's lost the plot. Or, like, I did this energy work session and, like, it went viral. Oh, I remember.

And, yeah, and people were like, yeah. people are like what she's like got demons and an exorcist coming out of her butthole or something like that and like of course that was almost five years ago and so now it's like so much more accessible people understand what's happening and energy is everything yep energy is literally everything this table is literally energy like come on you guys I was there with you I was like that I want I've been like that for quite a while now and And I actually specifically remember when people are doing more energy work, I would specifically remember your video and thinking people are probably like, oh, that's real. Yeah, totally. Well, and it has, like, I mean, you know, Gwyneth Paltrow, whatever you say about her, if she's woo-woo or whatever, I am so grateful for her because she probably took more flack from anybody out there because she was a pioneer.

And when you're a pioneer in something and you have the courage and the guts to, like, put it out there, you will absolutely get like backlash completely yes and so I give I give her so much like props yeah and she took a lot of hits for people that are trying to get that message out yeah and and so thank you Gwyneth we love you yes she listens to this podcast and so but yeah so she you know she was able to show through her you know episodes of her TV series whether it was energy work or the sex therapists and all those things that were just like so informative and not taboo and like permission to experience and see and learn so much wisdom that exists and more so obviously in the eastern culture than the western but but we're we're blending we're opening up that's yeah i do

see a bit of things happening in the world where people are starting to open up and i've talked about this on my podcast so many times because i have this intuitive and spiritual coach that i work with all the time and she always talks about how like the world has lived in their third chakra for so long with like which is like the top of the food chain like dog eat dog you work this and you are working under the powerful man and you try and get there and the status and this is oh yeah but we're like slowly moving into the heart chakra where we're like seeing the world differently and living more authentically and seeing the power and the success in just living through like a different lens of love and I'm like certain people are open to that and some people aren't

aren't and you can totally see the difference in those people. I was with Ariel Vandenberg last night and we went to Nobu, we felt so fancy. And she's just, so good. She's just one of those people to me too where I'm just like, she's just a light and just a good human and just thinks the same way that I do and like so open to talking about like feelings and like how we were put in each other's lives for a reason. And it's just, I don't know, I just feel like you can, I always say light recognizes light. You can see it in certain people, and then there's just other people.

I even see on social media. Like, I can see the darkness, even if they seem like they've got it all together. I can see, like you said, kind of in your book, like that dark cloud. Totally. It's so true. And again, like, that's where I had to kind of step back a little bit in, like, you know, unconscious biases and all sorts of things, which is like, oh, my gosh, I can help. What is my motivation to help, though? Is it because I actually just want to be loved?

And maybe if I help, then I'll be loved. Like, all those, like, psychological things that, like, I had to really realize. And so, yeah. So it's like, sometimes I see that. And I'm like, I want to help. I want to do this. Let me share. And then I'm like, hang on.

Yeah. He's asking for this. Yeah, because you got to pick and choose who. Just be you. Because you being you will help the right people. It's a ripple effect. Yes, yeah. People will ask if they want to ask.

I always say this, too. It's like, if you have information that you want to share, imagine that you, you are at a party and you're getting past, you know, food on a tray. Somebody's not going to just shove a cheeseburger down your throat. They're going to give you a little sample and you'll taste it. And if you like it, you're going to ask for another one. And you're going to come back. And I was like, oh, my gosh, because I'm such that person that I'm like, if I've experienced,

I want everybody to know this. Oh, my gosh, you have to know this. Like, I have to share the beauty, all the things. And I'm like, nope, chill out. if they want to they'll come back for more just bite sizes that's I that was a big takeaway I did from Hoffman

where I really wanted to go back and like preach and like say what I learned and tell people to go so transformational for you of course you want to share that and I was like floating out of that workshop whatever you want to call it and I just and they were like don't be a pattern police

don't point out people's patterns don't tell them what they need to do don't do this just be the light and and live what you've learned and people will want to be like how did you get there and what and they'll ask and it's it's really again in the world that we live in with social media

you want to just like put it out there and say this is what I did and look at how it's helped me and you guys should do this and let me and that's part of why I love having a podcast is it's more of like a real conversation that might touch somebody it might awaken something in someone's brain

but without being like you guys do this and do this Well, by the way, that just made me think. It's like we want to, we, I'm being collective, we want to share on social media and here's my tips for this. So we're breeding, like, breeding a collective that is, like, turning into that. But then also, that's feeding into people just following and not trusting what is good for them. So it's like, oh, man, like, how do we just, how do we just, like, shut it all off for a second and go in and try to, like, trust yourself and, like, have discern. about who and what I like.

I mean, talk about dating. Like, I was always in a relationship my whole life. But I didn't even know if I really, this is later on. I was in love with everybody. I love everybody. I love friends that I just meet. But I didn't even know if I actually liked them because I loved the feeling so much of being loved

that I didn't even have my own discernment or trust myself if I, I really liked their qualities. Yeah. I just wanted to be what they liked so that we could just make it work and have the best relationship ever. Yes, which is all how we've been conditioned to be. And that's, I asked my coach this.

Do I even know if I like you? I don't know. No. I don't know if I like you. No, I panic all the time over this stuff. Yeah, exactly. I do. And that's, I asked my, my coach that.

I was like, how do we really go in and trust our own intuition? and our own feelings and know what we are like thinking, feeling, acting like is right and real. And she was like, we've all had it in us since children and we've been taught to suppress it and be this certain thing that it's like it's a whole journey of getting quiet with yourself over years. But like small micro shifts every day of just sitting and she always makes me picture like eyes closed, picture myself in a throne and invite my younger self in. and my older self, and literally just listen to them. And all of a sudden, I'm like, damn, you guys are, you get it.

You know. It's actually crazy. And like, my older self always makes me laugh. She's like this old crazy lady, but she's so wise and funny. And then my younger self is just so sweet. And I like, it sounds crazy to people. Yeah. But it actually helps me just go, oh, that's how I feel.

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There's so much, like, aging used to be a very scary thing to me. Now I'm, like, trying to be like, no, the alternative is scary to me. Aging is amazing. And, like, it's all about just, like I said, those little shifts. Yeah. Well, I mean, but, like, what is more rewarding than feeling like you went through something hard? You know? Not that you have to make everything hard to get there in the end because I've also done that like, oh, this needs to be a challenge so that I can get through this and feel good about myself. But like it's pretty amazing. Life is hard. And like there's absolutely no such thing as perfect. And so if you can find a way to go through things and like be like, man, I made that. I made it through that. But also like and during it, yeah, I was really sad. But I also like found joy. And I found like, so much about myself that I ended up falling in love with and like I'm so proud of yes and like

I've never been more proud of myself as a as a almost 36 year old woman than I have in the last few years and it has been the hardest chapter of my life 36 no just meaning then the last few years and like and I I love myself so much and like I don't want to go through any more hard stuff in the interim like time like not in the immediate future but Like, I'm good for now. Thank you so much. Yeah. But, like, wow.

Like, I really am very, I feel very safe within myself. I love myself. It's huge. And I'm like, I'm content, which I used to hate that word. Oh, yeah, because you think, oh, I must be boring or complacent if I'm content. But, no, that's a feeling I strive for. That's reflection is one of the best things to just look at where you were and how far you've come and all the hardships you've gone through to get to where you are.

and you wouldn't be content with all of those things that you've gone through. I always think about people's most pivotal times in their life when they were like rock bottom and got out of it. And I'm like, I'll never forget mine. And people are like, don't say it again. Caitlin, I've talked about it way too many times. But like I hit a rock bottom point in my life that was so dark and so scary and I never thought I'd come out of it. And it did take me a long time. But I wouldn't have everything, all the things that I wouldn't have gone on that show.

I wouldn't have got this podcast. I wouldn't have gone on dancing with the stars. I wouldn't have gone on all these things without that rock bottom specifically. Do you have, do you have one in your mind that you're like, oh, that was my. I call it my death whole pit of shit era. Death whole pit of shit? Yes. That was what it was.

Yes. And did you ever see the series made? Yes. You know when she's on the couch? I think it's like episode four or five. She's like on the couch. She's super depressed. And all of a sudden it goes a little like, you know, visual.

And she's in this like this pit. Yep. And there's just like vine. all over and she's just laying there and she can't get out. I was like, that's the death hole pit of shit. I was like, oh my gosh, this is the visual representation of how I feel. Oh, my God. So it was like four or five years that I've been there.

And obviously, you know, slow progress and I wanted it faster, but sometimes you just got to go with what you need. And yeah, so the book actually came from, I wrote it in 2020. as I was going through my divorce right after my dogs died and it was you know I started a company the pandemic happened like it was like all these expanding

things happening and then it was starting to unravel all the things and then it kind of just like I was in that zone and I wrote this book in 2020 and then I couldn't even look at it for like two years really yeah because I felt so out of alignment

I was like I wrote all of these things that I was experiencing when I was expanding. And then I was at my lowest point, and I was like, I feel, I don't feel congruent with what I wrote. I feel like a hypocrite. I don't feel like I can even share this because this is not how I feel right now. So I let it go and I was never going to release this book.

And then in 2023, I started like in like October, 23, I was like, I think I need to pick the book back up. And so I read it and I was like, wait, this is, this is really good. Yeah. I'm in a different place now than I was when I even wrote that, wrote this book. But I could look at it and be like, yeah, that was, that was who I was five years ago or four years ago. And so many lessons to be in there and like, and a sense of pride to see where you were and like that you have changed and that you are a different person. Like that could be looked at as, oh, that's so scary.

I wouldn't even, I don't even want to read that. But then you can look at it with pride. Oh, so much, so much. And so, yeah, so I got back when I, so technically I had a ghost writer. And when we started writing, I was like, you know what? I was like, you're the one structuring this. You're writing the words. I was like, I know the concept.

This is my lived experience. So yes, this is my vision. I was like, but you're writing it. So she's on the cover with me. Her name is Ellen Goodlet. Oh, that's nice. Yeah. And so anyway, so I talked to her and I was like, can we shift a few things?

because now that I've been out of it a little, I have a little more perspective. So we shifted it and then, yeah, and then we were like, oh, I think it's time. That's cool. And I think because this is actually, I haven't talked about this. My whole life I've been a performer because that is,

I don't know, like I can kind of, and I say this with the utmost humility, but like I can pick up an instrument and learn how to play it. Yes, yes, you just got that in you. I can dance and I can learn how to dance or you teach me how to say a few lines in another language, I can do it. Like, I can perform. I can put it on.

And I've made my entire career out of performing. But I've never really connected to the artist inside of me. Like, what do I, what's going to come out of me? Even when I had my music career, I sang other people's songs that wrote them. I connected to them and then I performed them. Right. But I didn't write them. And so with writing this book, this came out of me.

I now, like, Kinergy came out of me, or guided and came out of me. And then also, I started writing music when I was, this last year. I love that. And, like, I have all this music that goes with the book. Oh, what? And so, I know, I haven't talked about this yet. So you hearing it here first. Yes.

Wow, that is cool. Yeah, so I wrote a song that goes with each one of the elemental lessons that she goes through. And I'm going to try to create some content, some visuals, because I realized I was like, everything that she goes through is her heightened senses. And I was like, that's what I want to experience. You can either read the book, you can listen to the audio, you can listen to the music that takes you through the journey. You can do a Kinergy class. All of it is the same experience of what this book is trying to say. I got like, I literally got chills and misty-eyed because I'm like, there's a reason you have.

went through what you went through there's a reason you held on to it for so long there's a reason you felt ready to share and then the reason was you have more to offer on top of what it already is that you went through and like just music now to go with it well that's awesome I got chills too because it's like you know like we all have something creative to offer and it could be that you're the most creative accountant on the planet but like it doesn't matter what your creativity you have something it comes from you yeah and again I've been the performer and like all of a sudden all this stuff is coming out of me. And it feels so vulnerable and so scary.

Of course. Because this is my truth. Versus I can hide behind the fact, well, I didn't do that. Yeah. You know, I just was hired to do this. Yeah. And this really truly has come from within. Wow.

So I'm very excited. You know when they say like you work towards something like there's no destination to healing, but like you've arrived at a place where you're like, holy shit. Yeah. That's why. Well, and also, and I'm being fully honest, I have moments where I'm like, yeah, I want to have a New York Times bestseller. Of course I do. That's amazing.

But at the same time, I'm also like, whatever happens happens. Because I actually followed through and finished. And like, I have a lot of projects that I've started and they've kind of like done this. But things that I've been hired for, of course I have to finish because I'm, I'm. You got a job to do. I got a job to do and I finish it, you know? But things that I've created, I've kind of stopped. Yeah, yeah.

And I haven't followed through and finished. And so this is more about like following through and finishing and feeling like, wow, like I did that. And of course I want people to experience the book and the music and however they want to experience it. But I'm like, if it's just to get it out there, that's all I care about. I'm proud of you. Yeah, I'm so excited. that's a that's a such a unique way to do it too you know to add that's something that i'm like that's something derrick would do but i forget you guys are like related like we're like bray and i really cut

from the same class you really are but it's so cool and i love watching like i love watching how your brains work because it's like so creative i'm a creative person but you're like on the next level of creative and it's so cool and inspiring oh thank you so when does the book and the music and everything come out so August 13th is the release date of the book and then music because I'm still like doing it right now like I literally just finish the narration of the book on Friday last week and then now I'm like going into the studio tomorrow to finish um the vocals on another song I have to finish one of the other songs and do the vocals on that one and then mastering it and everything all before August 13th holy you got a busy July oh my gosh okay I have a few more questions

I had so many little notes but sometimes I just have them here for safety because I love just having real conversation but there are certain questions that I did want to ask and people wanted to know as well. So, okay, acting and music, somebody wanted to know if you can share any memorable experiences from your time working on films

like Footloose and Safe Haven. Ooh, okay, so let's see, do you want like positive stories or anything? Like ones that people would be like, oh! Yeah, oh my gosh. Oh my gosh, footloose was amazing. Amazing. That was my first leading lady role. That's really cool to watch. And I remember I got that movie when Kenny Ortega was directing it. And so it was going to be like a full-blown musical. And so it was like, oh, that makes sense. Julian got it. You know, music, dance, singing, blah, blah, blah. Then he was not going to do it anymore. And they hired a new director. And he did like Black Snake Mone, hustle and flow. Like he was this like really gritty director. And I remember the producer. being like we need to like scrap the cast and like start over and I was like determined I was

like wait a minute no like I know this character like this is this is my life I have to do this and I worked so hard and I and I fought for that role and I was able to obviously get it and I remember I like we dyed my hair brown for the movie and it completely transformed me because you know my blonde hair, especially my short hair, this is how I am the most recognizable and associated with Dancing with the Stars. Yes. And so anytime I try to do a film or anything, now, especially from dance, or from footloose, I try to change my hair because it, it transports me, but also the visual for people watching also to see me as something different than the association. So yeah, so like that was amazing. I remember they like put freckles on me and it was like, it was

amazing. You pulled it off too. I remember being like, Of course. But honestly, it was like summer camp. I mean, Miles Teller, that was like... Oh, my God, love him. I know. And, like, his career blew up and, like, just watching everybody's, like, we were just kids at summer camp, basically.

That was amazing. And Safe Haven, Josh Demel has been, like, one of my besties forever. And he's so wonderful. And, I mean, those kids that were in it are all grown up now. I mean, it's wild. Like, it feels like that was a few years ago, and it was, like, over 10 years ago. it's wild that is great oh gosh yeah the time freaks me yeah and then somebody wanted to know you mentioned that you're currently single is there anyone special you're dating right now i'm not dating

anybody i'm not dating any one person you know what and i will say it's so funny i'm not the one that's like and i'm super empowered i'm dating all these guys it's not about that but it's about that discernment thing it's like i never dated yeah i never i never knew what i wanted to date or what I connected with. And so I have dated a lot in the last like four years. And I've given it time and like space. And I'm not jumping into like a full blown relationship because I'm like, I want to actually get to know someone.

Yeah. That is exactly where I'm at right now. And like it's a hard thing to do because companionship feels great. Yes. Connection feels great. Intimacy feels great. And it's like, okay. But that's, and that would be fine.

Yeah. And sometimes that happens. And that's great. And other times I'm like, I don't want to build my life with you. Yeah. But you're an amazing person. Yeah. But I don't want to build a life with you.

Yeah. At the beginning, I was like, you know, I'm going to put all these like parameters and these boundaries around it. And I'm like, you know, I need to get deep really fast. I need to make sure that they're like spiritually connected and this connected. And I was like, okay, I just friends zoned every human on the planet because we got deep way too fast. And then they started feeling so safe and comfortable. Then, like, all of our sexual energy went out the window. Yeah, totally.

Okay. Let's keep some levity in here, too. I forgot how to flirt. I was like, how do you, how do you, like, just play? Yeah, yeah. And so I've, like, brought a lot more of that back in, and I was like, I can, we can still be playful and friend zone and, you know, deep and all these things. And so I definitely am like, I catch myself to just trying to put my best foot forward. and I'm like, no, no, no, I got to put the other foot, too.

Yeah, yeah. Because, like, that's a good point. The shoe will drop at some point, and you need to see all of what exists here. Yeah. And I want to see all of what exists for you, too. Yeah. And, like, again, I'm not scared of whatever insecurities or whatever traumas or wounds you have. Right.

As long as you're, like, you know and you're owning them, and I will be your biggest cheerleader on the freaking planet. Yeah. But it's not my responsibility to either pull it out of you or to, give you mine. Right. That's, that's my number one. I think that's really important for people to know going into relationships. I think that's such a big one. It's so funny because Sidney is 16 and she's had a boyfriend for two years and they're like, she's like, no, he's the one. And we were talking about this last night. I'm like, you don't know that and you need to go explore. And then I was like, well, I'm just pushing that on her because that's what I

think. I have, I kind of have a philosophy though. Hear me out. Okay. I think it's the middle ground of like being kind of our age is I think hard to date. Whereas if you date early on, you're growing together. So you're changing and you're shifting together kind of at this, like, early, you know, stage. Yeah. And so I actually think that's quite beautiful if you can have amazing communication and talk about it as you're going, knowing that you're, like, growing together. And, like, you're actually building together. Yeah.

Sometimes when you're, like, later on, like, 20s, 30s, like, you've been kind of doing yourself for so long that, like. I know it's hard to let somebody in and this and that. So I always say, I'm like, am I just waiting for my husband to get divorced? I know. Because I'm like, then that's the next stage, you know. I know. They've probably gone through stuff and they're like on their next season of like discovery. I always say I'm like my next person will be a divorcee who's been through some shit.

It's been in therapy for four years. Yeah, preferably 10. I know. I'm just so. And I'm such a, I was talking about. about this with Chrisel too one time about like the energy like being attracted to energy I think that was so not talked about before in life where now it's like it's so cool to open up your world to be like attracted to energy and people too and I've always you should see the different kinds of people I've dated yeah because none of them look like each other none of them act like each other yeah but they all have this beautiful energy about them and I'm like I'm so attracted to energy same yeah I'm the exact same way how how how safe I feel with them, how much fun and playfulness we can have together, how, like, yeah, how free we are, how secure within each other we are.

Like, it's all about that. It's the feeling thing again. It is, right? It is, because we've been taught and seen in movies and all the things that we're taught, and I know you grew up Mormon, like things that you have been conditioned to think. And then once you free yourself from that to know, oh, wait, this actually feels good to me. Totally. It doesn't have to look like what other people told me it needs to look.

look like it's like whoa and you know it's so funny as we're talking I'm like well duh like you know what I mean like it's so it's so obvious I know but it's like no like this is like real stuff that like everybody struggles with yeah and like we get so kind of just glazed over you know yeah it's like but it's like oh sometimes the easiest thing is it's actually the simplest makes you feel I know I know it's so hard and I think that way for that generation too just like I think they're going to see it differently where you can be and feel and attracted to whoever you want and like for Sydney it's like she feels so you feel so comfortable with chance you feel so safe with him you guys are growing together where you are growing together

where in many relationships I've grown apart from somebody and yeah yeah and you know I can't push my beliefs on my 16 year old niece and by the way what's to say also that like one relationship is supposed to be your path you know what I mean like I know I was every relationship I've ever been through I know I was supposed to go through and I actually do believe the next one that I get into will like I just it's a feeling because of all the lessons I've learned from other relationships yeah and I think that's oh no I am I am beyond grateful and like I you know I even say it in my acknowledgments in my book like my marriage I mean with my ex-husband yeah it was an embarrassment of riches. It was beautiful. And, like, he's one of the best humans that I know. That's great.

Yeah. He's got the greatest heart. And unfortunately, there were things that couldn't shift. And by ways we both were raised. And, you know, we've talked about it many times. We're like, man, we really regret that we couldn't figure this out. But, like, but it is what it is now. And we've both moved on. And that chapter and that season of life is one of the ones that I will cherish more than any other in my life. That's so nice. It's beautiful. Yeah, it is.

Not to say it wasn't hard. Well, no, of course not. And it wasn't, you know, but, but it was amazing. Every season of life offers different lessons and opportunities to get to know yourself better. And at the end of the day, that's all you can ask for. That's really cool. I've really enjoyed this conversation.

This was so lovely. I love it. Wait, let's get Ariel and let's hang out. Yes. Oh, my gosh. She's the best. I love her so much. I met her for the first time yesterday.

Yeah. She is joy. She is. She's joy. I love her so much. And she makes me laugh. We have very similar senses of humor. And it's so funny because before I even knew her, the reason I started following her on Instagram was because somebody reached out to me and they're like, you remind me of Arielle because I always do like these crazy things and voices.

And I followed her. I was like, whoa. And then we both were like, wow, we were really supposed to be friends in this lifetime. Yeah. Yeah, we should definitely get together. Yeah, let's do it. girls night I always well not always I used to do these things I don't know 10 years ago when I first moved to LA where I had like three really good girlfriends and we would

bring five people each and like we would and different people every time or however many we want and it started creating like a really good girlfriend group and like introducing people and because obviously it's hard to make friends anywhere you're at these days and like where you feel like included and a sense of belonging and and and So, yeah, we used to do that all the time. And I was like, you know, one of the things that I haven't really done because I've been going back and forth between New York and L.A. And I've been really focusing on my work and dating and stuff.

I'm like, I haven't had a lot of consistency in my friendship. Like friendship one-on-one, but like I used to do Bachelor Nights at my house. Did you really? Oh, my God. No, you don't understand. Like, I was obsessed. And every season, I would do Bachelor nights at my house and I would theme it out every night or every week. And I would like cook. So I would be like a different theme of food every week.

It started with four people. And by the end of the season, there'd be like 50 people. And then the next year, there'd be like 100 people at my house. Oh, yeah, no, it was insane. And we had one rule. What is it? When you walk through the door for two hours, you're allowed to say anything you want to the TV. And then the minute the show is done, then you have to go back to being really kind.

Wait, I love that. That's a good rule. Because we had one person that was like, you guys are so bitchy. And I was like, it's the rule. It's the rule for this show, and we, because we'll scream, what are you doing? Come on. Of course. I do that.

I know all of the, like, editor tricks and everything. Or we'll say that. We're like, oh, the producers are so bad. They just got them drunk for this purpose. No! You know, like, so. That's hilarious. Yeah, so that was our rule.

And what I realized, my whole point of this is that that was so fun. And it was consistency of connection. And, yeah, I was like, I want to do that. so we'll do like some more girls nights oh my gosh when well i come here all the time for podcasting so i would love to do that do you still watch the show um i haven't for a few seasons but i'm like maybe i need to get this like you know weekly wait let's do it that would be so fun i'm so down for that i love that oh my gosh well thank you so much for coming thank you such a lovely conversation i just i feel like um there's like i said certain people like

ariel there's certain people that i follow or like see in life where i'm like i feel like i yeah totally I feel like I get you I don't know what it is it's just like I said there's just certain lights in the world where I go mm I see you yeah yeah yeah this October fear is free on Pluto TV with horror movie collections from paranormal activity the ring you will die in seven days scream and from dusk till dawn This is my kind of place. And don't miss the man-made nightmares in Mary Shelley's Frankenstein or the world ending chaos in 28 days later.

There's something in the blood. All the scares, all for free. Pluto TV. Stream now, pay never. I'm Justin Sylvester. And I'm Blakely Thornton. Join us for Yesterday's, the podcast where we break down the most pivotal pop culture moments in history

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