Off The Vine with Kaitlyn Bristowe - Kaitlyn’s Bachelorette Reunion | Ben Higgins: The $50K Fantasy Suite Fail and the Goodbye You Have to Hear to Believe!

Episode Date: July 17, 2025

#859. Kaitlyn is joined by one of the most iconic men in Bachelor history—Ben Higgins—to unpack the chaos, chemistry, and unseen moments from their unforgettable season. From how a coworker convinced him to apply for the show, to the Fantasy Suite date that ended with Ben accidentally destroying a $50,000 antique desk, this episode is full of stories you’ve never heard—until now!!They revisit all their standout moments—from two-stepping at the honky-tonk to the sex-ed date that made America swoon—and share the story of the night they told each other “I’m falling in love” … a moment Kaitlyn thought was about to turn into a virgin confession (spoiler: it didn’t). And just when you think you've heard it all—Ben reveals that Kaitlyn mooned him through a window after he was sent home… something she has zero memory of. You truly can’t make this stuff up!They also catch up on life today, and how Ben is now truly living out the prayers he once whispered—as a husband and brand-new father. You have to hit play. This one’s unreal!If you’re LOVING this podcast, please follow and leave a rating and review below! PLUS, FOLLOW OUR PODCAST INSTAGRAM HERE!Thank you to our Sponsors! Check out these deals!Chewy: Chewy has everything you need to keep your pet happy and healthy. And right now you can save $20 on your first order and get free shipping by going to Chewy.com/vine.Boll & Branch: Get 15% off, plus free shipping on your first set of sheets, at bollandbranch.com/vine15.EPISODE HIGHLIGHTS: 7:05 – How a coworker convinced Ben to apply for The Bachelorette!24:47 – The “I’m falling in love” moment Kaitlyn thought was a virgin confession.28:30 – The Fantasy Suite disaster that destroyed a $50K antique desk!51:08 – Ben reveals Kaitlyn mooned him through a window after she sent him home. 58:58 – How the show changed Ben’s life—and the prayers he’s now living as a husband and father!See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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twenty dollars on your first order and get free shipping by going to chui dot com slash vine bowl and branch get 15% off plus free shipping on your first set of sheets at b-o-l-l-l-d-d branch dot com slash vine 15 you're listening to Off the Vine with Caitlin Bristow Hey, Vino's real quick. If you are listening right now, which obviously you are or you wouldn't be hearing this, can you hit the subscribe or follow button on whatever platform you're on? Please, that one simple thing helps more than you even realize it allows me to keep growing on this podcast and making these episodes the best they can possibly be obviously for you. That's the only favorite I'm going to ever ask, okay? It truly means the world to me.

Thank you. Now, let's get into it. Hey, everybody. Welcome to Off the Vine. I'm your host, Caitlin Bristow, and you'll never believe who is sitting across from me right now. The man, the myth. No, I feel like that's something Chris Harrison would say. Wouldn't he, wouldn't he say that? The man, the myth, the legend, Ben Higgins. The Mount Rushmore of Bachelors. Yeah, you are like the, wait, who'd be on your Mount Rushmore of Bachelors and Bachelors? Uh, bacheloretts is easy for me. It would be you and Jojo and Hannah Brown. I think you'd also have to go back to like the Tristas. Yep. Um, and I think you were like fine. Yeah. I think that would be like the five there for me. Yeah. Um, Becca Kufrin would come close, but she just didn't have the cast. I love her. Um, the bachelor is like, I think Joey like secretly, I mean, not secretly, very like publicly, but like wildly snuck his way in late in the game. Totally. Like we had a big like lull there. Yeah. He came in and gave America their comfort food. Yeah, exactly.

They were like, this is the guy. This is the guy. I think Womack is 100% like up there with the Sean Lowe's. Sean Lowe for sure. I actually loved Chris Souls on a season. I thought he was like awkwardly awesome. Yeah. And knowing Chris now, I'm like you were so much of yourself.

Totally. I would agree with that. Well, we've got one of the Rushmore's here, Ben Higgins. We discover a lot in this podcast. You guys are in for a wild ride on this one because, I don't know. We uncovered a lot and unlocked a lot of crazy memories. So enjoy this podcast with Ben Higgins.

My socks. You mean like these ripped at the airport? That's aggressive. Oh my gosh. That's aggressive. Even when your leg is that, we can't see you. Okay, cool. Yeah, but can we start with that?

Yeah, you can start with whatever you want, Caitlin. I want to start with the fact that you have holy socks on. I feel like that just happened. In the airport today. Okay. I need new ones. Let's get you some new socks. That'd be amazing.

My Amazon delivery hasn't happened. yet but I do get I I got really self-conscious and so about what your feet um my my socks I uh I usually I've been wearing these really nice white tube socks because I work from home and I go on walks and they're very comfy are they like compression oh no they're very old man like white tubes yeah and so when I was like coming here today I was like I'll put my good socks on and then I'm walking through the airport and it ripped and I was like well this is really backfiring um wait how cute you put on your good socks for today. I put them my good socks for you. Yeah, I did. That's sweet. I also feel like I've done your podcast so many times and I'm like, when's the last time you've done mine? It's been so long,

Caitlin. It's been so long. It's been a really long time. So I'm happy to be here. It's an honor to be asked. You little angel. Hi. I've like, for people like tuning in, they'll see or they'll know this. I've been like singing your praises for the last 10 episodes. Just like rewatching, just being like, he really is perfect like he really is that person that everybody sees i know it's a that's a sensitive subject because you had this pressure going into being the bachelor as the perfect ben and it was this whole thing and when i say perfect i don't mean perfect i mean you are flawed and you have stuff we all do but like you to your core as a human being is like really something rare that people come across well i appreciate that i mean it i do appreciate that i think it could

have gone one of two directions during your time, though, because I was so nervous and so quiet that it could have just, I could have just gotten, you know, forgotten and pushed aside. Yeah. And I think lost in a shuffle of all the good looking men. Yeah. I mean, goodness, look at that group. It studs. But fortunately, for me, I was able to stick around long enough. And I was just so curious about this experience. Yeah. And I thought, I was thinking through coming here today. And I mean, we can kick it off of this. I think you also cultivated a very, a very healthy environment for all of us to be our true selves. Yeah. Maybe not the first couple weeks. I think it's impossible. It's so much chaos. But then once we got into it, I think you really like allowed people to have fun and open up and to

be their true selves. And that's not easy to do when you're the lead of the show. Yeah. I think it's why you go down is such like a legendary iconic lead. I don't know if that's why, but maybe in your mind. I think it's, I think in my mind, I'll keep that. That's all that matters. true to me. But yeah, I mean, it was, it was a special experience. But I was also so much of a wallflower and so much of an observer that I didn't get too much in the mix of too much of the drama. But still, like I think it's so crazy seeing everybody's different like role, if you will, on the show because, you know, Ryan McDill's going to be the drunk guy. Sean's the jealous one. Nick's the sexual one. Like Jared's the little like funny gets my sense of humor,

you're like the sweet romantic like but also can be outgoing and funny what like everybody had a different role yeah which i was just talking about this with with cupcake is like how brilliant casting is for who the lead is like i felt that way that i could be myself because of the men that were in front of me did you feel that as the bachelor like were you like oh my gosh they picked these women for me these are so my type or like how did that feel for you definitely um you know I think as you get further along, I started to see, oh my goodness, there's so many people here that are my type. Yeah, yeah. I think early on when you walk in on night one, you're like, why in the world did any of you actually want to come here for me?

Yeah. And then once you start to get to know them, you're like, no, I can see a lot of these, this working. Yeah. I think it was the brilliance of casting back then. I think the show today, I would argue, doesn't cast as well. Do they just willy-nilly? Yeah. And you, come on, let's go.

It feels like back then, though, they had a lot more applicants. Yeah. Oh, that's true. Like, they're a little more, have to be a little more picky today. Yeah. But back then, yes, I really do believe that. And I think with your season specifically, there was so many unique characters. The story really turned into the Nick, Sean relationship.

It really turned into that. And watching it back, it's even more obvious than I even remember. Like, I was like, oh, my God, this is like the whole storyline. It took away from so much, but, I mean, obviously a good dramatic TV, but it took away from so much. And I actually was proud of myself because I kept saying that in like the ITMs. I'd be like the drama of those two just paying so much attention to each other is really taking away from like how I feel about both of them. Yeah.

Like I was like, ew, you guys. Anyways, we'll get there. I want to start even before that. I don't think I know how you even got to be on the show. I was working in Denver, my first job out of college. And I was in software sales. I was actually not in sales at this point. I was a.

That was your title. Yeah. It was a promotion that my company ended up put me into after the show because they're like, yeah, might as well throw them in the sales. I was a business analyst. And so I was testing back office software. And that's where I'll stop because everybody listening will be like, that's the most boring thing I've ever heard. But it's what it sounds like. So I was writing user manuals for software systems in the basement of a company. And I wasn't good at it. And it was a lot of computer time. And it was a lot of like test scripts. No, not at all. But it was a job. And I needed a job. one day i'll never forget it fay is her name um she was this chief marketing officer at this company she comes downstairs she said i love this show uh and they're doing a casting call i don't know if they still do these but they used to do casting calls in cities where people would show up live to them yeah and she's like they're doing this casting call in denver for the bachelorette if i buy you lunch would you go to it and i'm not going to a casting call like i'm not showing up and like being like hey i'm single and wanting to go on the show i don't want i was like me pick me yeah i don't want any of my

friends to see me there. She goes, okay, there's another way. If we go upstairs, would you sit with me and sign you up? And I said, I would 100% sit with you and sign myself up online. And she said this. We went upstairs. She goes, Ben, I want to be honest with you. You're 25 years old. You're single. You have no friends in Denver because I moved from Indiana to Denver. I had no friends. She's like, you work all the time because you're not great at your job. So you have to put in double the amount of hours than everybody else. And you just work and go home and probably like drink two martinis and go to sleep this is a really bad path for you um you need to mix it up a lot a little bit and i always have had this desire personally where like i wanted to create a story or i've always

had this like deep desire where i want my friends to be interested in me yeah or people to be intrigued by me and so this felt like it fell right in line like oh my gosh i could go on this show yeah that people would want to ask me about and i could have a story to tell them because right now that current season of life. I had no story to tell people. Right. And so we signed up and it was a week later. And I'll just like go through it a little bit more because the wild part is a week

later they call. They did a week? A week. And they said, hey, we want to do like a Skype or like the video call with you. They do that. And then I end up blowing out my knee. I don't know if you remember this from back then. I blew out my knee in a pickup basketball game.

And so I had to go to L.A. for like the in-person casting calls on crutches because I had had surgery three days before. Yep. And so I got out of surgery, got on a plane, which is not recommended to do by anybody. And I show up to the casting on crutches, which I think really sold it because they're like, this poor guy wants this so bad. Like he wants to be interesting so much. He wrist his knee blowing up on a plane and walks in and crutches.

And so I did that. And then, you know, but really the reason was I was like the perfect candidate, meaning I was single. I had a job I didn't love. I didn't have any friends. I needed to mix life up a bit. And this show was like the perfect. thing for me to do that with and I remember talking to you maybe about like previous

yeah we talked about previous relationships were you like fresh out of a relationship I can't remember it's pretty fresh from my girlfriend in college yeah we had ended it kind of probably about a year before she hurt you she hurt me she hurt me so bad I think I called her a monster on the show and did you yes and like the bad part about this is she is the opposite of that like we just texted last night because she just had a kid oh I love a full circle woman yeah and And I like, the reason I was so mad at her is because I was like, you were supposed to be the one. Yeah.

You ended this. You're going to want me back. Yeah. And I think I was just like holding on to all this resentment. And so I was like so angry. Yeah. Because it was the first time I was talking about it. Like Caitlin.

Yeah. See? We had a lot more company. Yeah. But now, I mean, she's like never been. She's like the best. Yeah. But yes, she hurt me.

I will say that. I remember. And I was still like a hurt puppy coming on into the show. Yeah. Really wanting to be. fixed. Uh-huh. That was kind of me going on Bachelor. Like, thank God I didn't go on Juan Pablo season, which I did audition for because I would not have been ready, but I was still a hurt puppy going into Chris Sol season. But I feel like that whole experience kind of like heals that part

of you too because it like cracks you open. You learn so much about yourself. You realize, it's like therapy every day. I always say that. And you learn like maybe what you could have done better in a relationship or what you're looking for next. Like it really just, I don't know. I feel like it takes you to another level of, like, healing from a previous relationship. It did for me. Definitely. I mean, you talk about yourself more than you've ever talked about yourself before, at least in my experience.

Yeah. There's no room for being a listener because you're there to be the communicator and to be the one sharing all of your emotions, all your feelings, all your doubts, all your hurts. You know, for me, it was 100% that. I was walked in the night one. And I think everybody would say this. You know, you're nervous. I think that's like a given.

Yeah. You don't know that everybody else is nervous, though. So you feel like you're the only person that's really, like, freaking out. But for me, it was, like, deep insecurities. Like, I don't belong here. How in the world am I sitting in a limo with former professional athletes and gym owners who have biceps bigger than anything I've ever seen? And, you know, the cupcakes of the world, who are, like, perfectly handsome and a doctor.

Yeah. And so you sit there and, like, my, you know, you have these deep insecurities. And you don't really know why. but the show was what like helped me process through all that to admit like yeah I don't feel like I belong I feel unlikable I feel like like I have to work really hard to be likable which is so crazy it's so wild but it's the first might ever admitted it yeah yeah so the show did that for me and once I said it once I said I feel unlovable all of a sudden I had this relate like relatability to the masses and to myself that I never had before which is so because people don't tune in I mean they tune in obviously

to see like the biceps and everything like that. But people want to relate to, I think that's why they like that show so much, is because they see themselves, everyone sees themselves in someone on that show. And not many people will talk about their insecurities like that. You know what I mean? Yeah. I mean, I didn't want to. Like this was not the platform I would have chosen to do it on.

But I think over time when you're in it long enough, you're like, I'm either going to start to talk and start to understand myself better. or I'm going to waste this opportunity because I have a lot of people asking me questions. I don't know if they really care about me or not. Yeah. But they're asking me a lot of questions. And questions that matter.

And questions that matter. I can start answering them honestly. Yeah. And just seeing where it takes me as scary as that is. Yeah. So yes, I think you're right where it's, it is therapy. And it was healing. Yeah.

And I think I left that show for multiple reasons being a better version of myself or a more confident version of myself. Yeah. Because of just so much time, how much time I spent on myself during that. I was the opposite. Tell me more. I want to hear everything. I went in on Crystal season, the cockiest I've ever been in my whole life.

I walked in thinking like these little bitches are all going home. Like I thought I was, I shouldn't, okay, I'm blowing this up a little bit. I was the most confident I had ever been in my life. I knew I belonged there. I thought I was supposed to be there. I was like, I am such a catch. I have so many different sides of me that the whole world's going to see. Really, they just saw this one like crazy lady who,

said inappropriate things all the time, but I didn't understand how TV worked. I was the most confident and I came out of it like so wildly insecure. That's interesting. I mean, yeah, I'd have a thousand questions. This is not my podcast. You can ask me anything. I know, knowing you, your ability to know yourself always just seemed really high to me. And so it would be interesting if that was a real confidence that you had going into or if you were trying to cover something up and that the true like Caitlin ended up showing up at the end because you had like masked it with this like I'm the best I belong here thought because I don't I've never known you to act that way so you're so right it was definitely a mask but I didn't know it okay because I'd went through

this really hard thing in my life I had done therapy for the first time I'd really worked on myself for the first time in my life before going on the show so I went in I first of all, I really did think I belonged there because I always thought I was supposed to be on TV. So I was like, okay, here we go. I didn't think it would be this big of a network, but okay. And then I think I tried so hard to keep up that facade of like, I've got this. I'm so tough and I don't get, I'm confident. But I really do think I went in that way because I had never worked on myself before.

I'd always been like relying on other people, my family to take care of me, my boyfriends to take care of me. Like, I had finally worked on myself for the first time ever. So going in, I was feeling like I'm where I'm supposed to be. But then it was keeping up with that felt. Like, it was a facade. You always have had a level of, like, intimidation, though, too. You've kind of, like, given off this or even when as The Bachelorette, I know over time, like, as I got to know you better, there was like a softer side I was able to see and like a more,

like, relatable side I was able to see. But I think initially, too, you are this, like, big personality who, is really confident and very comfortable and very awkward moments. And not everybody has that. Like very few have that ability, especially do it on a show like The Bachelor of Bachelorette. And so I mean, I feel like over time though,

like that softer like we can sit and have a conversation side came out. Yeah. Did you rewatch? I have not rewatch. Okay. Good. Because I did and I'm like, oh my gosh,

I hope he's like I almost text you being like, you're at such a different place and you're like, please don't watch this. But it was so sweet because I was like, oh my gosh, we were so cute in like a, in what you're saying. Like we got to a place of just like, like you made me feel like a softer version of myself that could be where with Sean and Nick I was just trying to like handle them so that I felt like you were the one that brought out my softer side all the time, which is really nice for me. So thank you for that. Yeah. Jess was asking me about this season. She's said it's the, she would never watch The Bachelor with me on it. But she's like, I think I could

watch Caitlin's season and be okay. And I said, I think there's parts that you would really enjoy seeing. Yeah. And that you'd probably be able to laugh at at at some point, you know, in life whenever you're in that kind of mood. But she was like, what was that like, tell me about you and Caitlin in that experience. And I was like, you know, I think what if I was to explain anything, one was the Sean and Nick drama was so passionate and so fierce and so loud that. But I think I was lucky enough to kind of come in behind that and be like, hey, but we can hang out. Yeah. And like, you know, none of this exists here.

Yeah. Yeah. And it was like hopefully a safe space. Uh-huh. It was. And hopefully it was like a more like real space. Yeah. Like that was always my hope because like I wasn't mixed up in that.

And I very easily could have been. I'm not saying that was a choice I made. I just wasn't ever invited into that chaos. Go ahead. I was very much separated from it. I think on purpose by the show. And so I think when I look back, it was such a safe place when you, like, hopefully, at least for me, I always remember going to bed when we had a date the next day being like, okay, if I can do nothing else. Like, I don't think I'm going to be able to entertain Caitlin because Caitlin in my, like, I can't keep up with her.

I don't think I'm going to be able to rise to the passions of everybody else that's on the show because they're so passionate right now, right? Yeah. But the one thing I can offer that I, that I'm hoping is like she can take a deep breath with me. Yeah. like that she can just be there in the moment and that will be enough if I get sent home tomorrow for me to feel like, hey, we did something good here. Like I gave a safe space. That is exactly. And watching back, so I beat a dead horse every time I interview one of the guys from the show because I say, I think, I thought this was going to be so fun to rewatch 10 years later.

I thought it was going to be like, look how much we've grown. Look how fun this was. And I'm like, oh shit, it was way, I knew it was intense, but it's way more. real and intense than I even remember. Like I'm watching back, even with Jared, I'm like, shit, I like, I really fell for him and like watching. And then I'm like watching us. And I'm like, oh my God. Like that's my friend. Like it's weird watching and it's so much harder than I thought it would be because I didn't, we were saying like it's almost like you bottle all of it up and then you're unbottling it and watching it. And you're like, holy fuck I blacked out a lot of this. Yeah. And but that is the most, you were the most consistent person to me in.

that house but I honestly almost text you because I'm like again I thought this would be like this fun funny thing rewatching but I'm like I also want to respect people's like significant other and like families and I'm like oh shit I don't want to like you know but everyone and I said this I'm like everyone's picked these women who are like yeah go do it or like I think I'd be okay with Caitlin's and I'm like okay that's cool yeah like that it says a lot about um your partner as well because she is I say it through like every rewatch I'm like and now we've know, Jess, and she's so perfect, and Winnie's so perfect. Like, it's actually crazy, though, to don't watch back, is what I'm saying.

Yeah. You know. It is so intense. Yeah, and I forget a lot of it, too. So I think I would watch it and at times be shocked. Like, in my mind right now, I'm like, Jess could watch this and probably never feel uncomfortable. And then we get into it and she'd be like, oh, my gosh, I can't, like, this is going to ruin everything.

Yeah. No matter how much confidence you have. Oh, it doesn't matter. Like, I think there is a level of intimacy that, like, probably is not healthy for a spouse to watch because it's not really an option ever for any married couple is like, oh, I'm going to go back and watch you date somebody. Right. Yeah. And that's torture, no matter what. Like, it's torture for me.

I'm dating and I'm like, it's even uncomfortable. I'm like, because then I'm finding myself crying or being like, oh, God, that moment was so. And I'm like, wait, is this, like, is this bad? Yeah. No. Because I'm like, it's been a decade. You would think 10 years would pass and you'd almost be like, this is funny and it's emotional. But here's the thing.

I'm sure there's funny moments and the emotional moments like far outweigh. It's kind of like Instagram where you can get a thousand nice comments and the one bad one that hits just right. And that's what sticks out to you. That is exactly what this is. Yeah. You're so right. Because like there's a lot of funny moments too. And like a lot of the memories like I have are so good and healthy and fun.

That's why I thought watching back would be good because same. But there's like, yes, but then there's going to be those moments, especially towards the end that Rick really wrecked you. And then, you know, obviously hurt us because like we were involved in some way or another. And those are going to stand out because those are the ones. Those are hard to see. They changed you. When I brought Nick back, I'm like, you idiot. I'm like yelling at myself on the TV screen.

Do you regret it now? Like is that something you wish you wouldn't have done? Yes and no. because I really do think I did obviously have a connection with him. Like that was very obvious. And I kind of played it off when I went on to The Bachelor because I was like, that's gone. Like out of sight, out of mind. But when he came back, I'm like, if I would have said no, I would have been thinking about him still.

So I don't regret it because I had to be selfish in that moment. I just, I hated watching it back because I was like, man, I put these guys through hell. So when you said earlier that I made you guys feel comfortable and safe. to be i was like really because i watched back feeling like the biggest asshole bringing him back on i felt like such a dick yeah i mean i think you had to do it was best for you yeah and like but you might not have been the bachelor if i brought if i didn't bring him back that's true so thank you go sorry i keep interrupt for the decisions yeah you know i yeah but i think everybody in that room felt one of two ways they were either just mad or they were like wait she brings somebody else in

because nobody in this room is enough for her. So it was sending a message that brought on like some issues. It really put Nick in a space where he couldn't win. Totally. I actually felt bad for him watching. Yeah. I mean, he was like very much sitting on the outside and never going to be invited into the group, which was a very like difficult place for him to be sitting in.

But ultimately, too, I don't, I think it was shown as a bigger deal than it actually was. It was a really big deal that night. Mm-hmm. It wasn't a big deal weeks following. Yeah. And it wasn't a big deal. I mean, it was a really big deal towards the end because, you know, I think Sean held on to this like, you and I are meant to be, Caitlin, you and I know are meant to be.

Yeah. This is a very clear path and you want to bring somebody else in, meaning like you're open to other people. Right. And I think that really got him more than it got anybody else. Totally. And while watching it back, I'm like, I thought it was so obvious that it was Sean through watching or from experiencing it and from rewatching 10 years ago.

But watch it back. I was like, dude, I was in love with like four people. Like, there was four people where I was like, the way I looked at my four, final four guys, I'm like, Caitlin, like I was. Yeah, you just want to me to say it the next season to be the one that finally admits to it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, good.

Yeah. But that's, well, I actually said, didn't you say I'm falling in love with you and I said, I'm falling in love with you too? And then I was like, oops. And I was like, oops. I don't think I'm allowed to say that. And then I thought they were going to edit it out, but they didn't. It was the night that I had, like, sat with a lawn for three hours and admitted I felt unlovable.

And so I told you that. But you thought I was going to tell you that I was a virgin. Yes. And so I had to. So that was a great, like, come out moment for me on national television when you're like, are you a virgin? I had to be like, oh, no, sorry, everybody watching, admitting this now. Oh, my God. I was like so sad on that's what you're going to tell me.

And I should have let you have that moment. I'm glad I bring virgin vibes. That's so that's such a good compliment to me. It's like, you bring virgin vibes, Ben. You do not bring virgin vibes. It was more of that. What if that was your moment to tell me? And I was like, are you a virgin? I'm like, uh, yeah. I just ruin it. That's like, ruining a punchline of a joke, but 10 times worse. Like, why wouldn't I let you have that? But it is just 10 years is so much time. But like, how old are you now? 36. 36. Oh, yeah, you were 26. Oh, you had your birthday on the show and you didn't tell me because you were worried about an age thing. That's what I was going to bring up. Why were you so worried about the age? I don't know. I mean, I don't think I was actually as worried as what I probably communicated. Because rewatching, you were like, I don't know, we haven't talked about the age thing. And I was like, I was like, oh, you're like an older woman?

Like, it was like three years difference. Yeah, I don't think it was as big, like, it wasn't as big a deal as I think I, like, made it out to be. Yeah. I think I got in my own head about it, though. Yeah. Because there was other, like, I was. Jared and myself were the two youngest on that on the show yeah I think we're the same age yeah and I think he and I had probably spoken about it and been like I wonder if she's okay with this

does she even know it yeah and then I was like oh I have a birthday so she's really going to know March 23rd oh it was it was just oh right you just happy birthday yeah appreciate you I totally thank you yeah I was in my calendar right you didn't get my text yeah yeah I remember I was watching back and I was like oh funny I don't remember the age talk about how that was something that we're doing a big deal. I also remember we had like religious talks and they didn't show that like because I think as a viewer you're like why are they not talking about politics and like financial things and like things that matter in a marriage but it's like even if you did they're not going to show it. They're not going to show it. I mean I felt like we knew each other

well. Well I think I got the most honest time with you. That's sweet. I mean I hope that's because they were like hey, Caitlin needs this moment. Yes. And I think it was like an intentionality to like have those moments because this was getting to do it towards the end right yeah and i was like we probably both were like we have to start having like real conversations here yeah that's true can't just be fun in games all the time wait a second will you accept this key to good or are you going to forego your individual suite or what's happening we're going to talk about the fantasy suite because okay good i i think you know the text i got from the show afterwards on what happened but i want to remind you if you haven't i'm what wait so we were

in Ireland. We had the castle to ourselves. It was the same architect that did the Buckingham Palace. Yeah. Beautiful castle. We tried to sneak out that night and then we got scared because the castle was like dark and scary. Yeah. But we're like, let's go explore the castle. And then we like got down a hallway and we were like, this is scary. Uh, no, what? So they had given. Oh, am I nervous. Trust me. I'm married. We're not going too far here, Caitlin. There's bound Oh, God, what are you going to say? So, you know, it was such a fun night because you have cameras around you all the time. I didn't know what the fantasy suits are going to be like.

But then all of a sudden you have this little speaker, right, that you brought in. So we could play music. First time I'd heard music in a long time. Oh, which just changes everything. And then they had an ice bucket with like a whiskey bottle in it. And it was like this metal, beautiful metal tray with like this whiskey bottle. And we're just like, let's play music and dance and blast and drink a bunch of whiskey and have a blast. And that's what we did.

And then, like, you know, we snuck out and all that stuff. So I had picked up this black, glass or this metal tray and stuck it on a desk that was like next to the bed. Yeah. And we kind of just like let it there all night. And it had like, uh, sweated. Like the water from the ice had sweat through condensation. Yeah. And it had ruined this desk.

And it was like a 1500s leather desk that was like from like king. How are you supposed to know? I had no idea. But this show had to pay for it. And it was like. I forget the exact number. It was above $50,000 is what this desk was worth. Yes, we ruined it.

Like, ruin this desk. Oh my gosh. I didn't, did you tell me this? I don't know. I mean, I probably got the text like when you were after the show when you were off doing your thing. But I got a text from the show being like, hey, just to let you know, you cost us 50 grand. I think it was actually more than 50,000. I don't want to say it.

But it was like so much money. I remember being like, oh, it was this like ancient king, Louis, the whatever. Devers desk that was sitting in that room and we ruined it. Wait, that is wild. Ruined it. And they had to, wait, how do you replace something like that? You don't. You just pay them.

Oh. Yeah, you just pay them money and say, please they'll be mad. That's so crazy. Because I was thinking, I was just talking to Cupcake about like how they had the budget to get a second helicopter to follow my helicopter to fill my helicopter going around and made him take the bus. Yeah. I wonder if that, when they, something like that happens, if they're like, oh, or if they're

like, oh, well, this is why we have. Then I think they were fine. Yeah, I think they were fine. I think they were doing just fine. But the sad thing is the memory of King Louis 18th. And I just like to know that like we were the reason this desk is no longer like operative. All because of whiskey. All because of whiskey.

It's funny because I do watch back and I'm like, I always drank whiskey. You were the one that always drank whiskey with me. Actually, no, Nick did too. But it's funny because I rewatch and I'm like, oh yeah, Ben was a whiskey drinker. Big whiskey drinker. Do you still drink whiskey? Oh, yeah. You do.

As I've gotten older, it gives me more. more of a headache. Oh, yeah, that happens. Yeah, more of like a, it's a special occasion drink for me. Yeah. You know, it won't give you a headache? What? Low sugar, spade and sparrows.com.

You might as well just keep filling me up then. Yeah, I will. I have, is it cold? Is it cold enough? I'd tackily put an ice cube in it. It's really good, Caitlin. We all know I'm trying to constantly give Pinot and Ramen the best. The best of the best, good food, fun, toys, all the care they deserve.

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Download the BetMGM Ontario Web. today. 19 plus a wager, Ontario only. Please play responsibly. If you have questions or concerns about your gambling or someone close to you, please contact Connix Ontario at 1866 531, 2,600 to speak to an advisor free of charge. But MGM operates pursuant to an operating agreement with I Gaming Ontario. I did want to talk about a few of your standout moments from the season. Obviously, the sex ed group date. Yeah. I think like that was the moment that America went. to you because it was with children.

You handled it in such an amazing way. Now, did you know they were child actors? Did I ever tell you that? Afterwards, you told us. I didn't know they were at the time. But watching back, like, did you already know? Like, did I tell you before it aired? Before it aired, yes.

You told us or somebody had told me like after the date was done that those are child actors because I think it was because I was like in an ITM and I was like, hey, this is wrong what we just did. Like, like, you just asked a bunch of idiots to teach them about sex. Yeah. Like, this is a very important topic, like, that can be easily, like, one wrong word being used at the wrong time could mess them up in some way. There was some weird shit that came out of people's mouths.

So I was like, this was not okay, guys. They're like, they're actors. They're fine. I'm like, oh, all right. We're getting. Still weird, though. Still weird. Because those kids are still kids hearing the, like, Josh Albert's calling a tampon, like a rip

cord. And, like, the way he was explaining, like, I don't know. ever but that date was so funny but i remember specifically like you could even see it in my body language when you were doing it i like because it was so you you handled it so well are you big into sex education are you prepared to have the birds and bees conversation with winnie yeah i'm i mean i studied it in college oh yeah so like it was like very much up my alley and like my dream that's why they put you on that date yes that's why they made that date in church like teach sex ed in churches because I felt like at the time churches were doing such a bad job at teaching

kids about like sex. Yes. Oh, that was your job. And so I really wanted to do that for a living wild. That's not really a niche market. Nobody's really looking for that. Interesting. Yeah. But I had all this like hope. And so I had like studied in college and thought about ways I would tell kids about this. And so it was like right down my alley. Yeah. Yeah. So I like again, got very lucky and fell into a very perfect day in a very perfect environment. Well, whole time it was so hard for me because I'm laughing my ass off and you guys are like obviously taking it seriously because you don't want to these kids. But I'm sitting there knowing the whole time that that's what was going on. And I obviously love a prank. But I was like evil laughing

during that because it was so funny to me to have you guys go up there. And so I can't remember. Who's the guy? God, what was his name? Jonathan. Yeah. First of all, so good looking. I was watching back being like, he is really a good looking guy. But he went up. there and he was just like dying and mortified and Josh was like beat red and didn't know how to obviously Josh was like the love virgin who wanted me to cut his hair and like didn't know how to talk about tamp. He called them tampons. Tampons. Tampons. Those darn tampons. I'm trying to remember what we did that night for the after party. Do you remember? It probably was the Los Angeles hotel where we went. Oh, the outdoor space where there's like a pool. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Did I give you

the group date rose? I don't know. I don't remember. I have all my roses still. Okay, so you have all the, do you have your roses from The Bachelor, too? No, because I don't get roses on the Bachelor. Yeah, I'm the one giving them out. Yeah, but I have all the roses still in a jar in my office from the time on the show. That's so cool. I'm so mad I never thought to keep them. Well, I have one right there.

They all look like that. Now, I should have brought them and you could have kept them. Yeah. What do you mean? You don't want to keep them anymore? No, I would love to keep them, Caitlin. But I just feel like they could be like. Here, take the old jar.

I don't care. Yeah. Do you want of my moldy jar of roses? This would be such a sweet gift for me to you. The one-on-one in San Antonio when we went in that red Ford old truck and we got to go line dancing. Key, that was like one of the most fun dates to watch back. We had so much fun on that date. Yeah.

I mean, even being The Bachelor, I think there's dates that you just feel like you check a box and you're like, I got to go do this. I felt like on The Bachelor, maybe I'm just naive. Like we had a few dates that you and I did specifically that actually were like really fun for me. Like, that was one of them. We ran into your friend. Yeah, randomly. He was there with his family, not set up by the show. And the show was, like, panicking.

Like, wait, do we bring them in or not? But I, like, that date. So I went back there the next year just for fun because I had such good memories at that hall. I think it's such a great hall, green hall. It's so cool. It's so cool. Did you see our initials on the thing?

Yes. It's so much up my alley. I asked for the old man who we met that day. No, did he pass? I don't know by now. Now it's one 10 years, I thought about when you went back, though. Remember the little old lady who he was still there when I was there? But it was like, I had such a good time there that I was like, I want to go back to that

spot because I had such a good time there. That's cool. Like, you know, Ireland. I want my family to go to Ireland so bad now because I was like I had such a fun time in Ireland. Now, thanks to you and Sean and Nick, I had two weeks free to travel the country while you got to go stay in hotels and hang out. They let you do that?

Oh, the best time. I have great pictures from all these little towns that we'd go to pubs and just chill because you guys couldn't figure your stuff out. Oh, yeah, because they can't send a third person home directly yet. I, that must be nice. Do you know what I had to do when I got sent home third? Brokenhearted, I'd go sit in a Snowden cabin in Iowa and couldn't leave. Sounds like a great time for a book and a fire. I got to travel Ireland. Cool. So I had a blast. I didn't know that. Yeah. So I want to go back to Ireland. I think like I have. I have more, I love my time as The Bachelor. I had better memories being on The Bachelor because I had so much more fun. I was so stressed out on the other side. I'll get that. But like just like enjoy, like enjoyability.

I loved The Bachelorette. Yeah. It's cool because I always said this too. When you become the lead, you have so much more empathy for the last lead. Yeah. So like with Crystal's, I was like, that mother. Blindsided me so hard. How could he do that to me?

And then I had to blindside you. And I was like, I get it now. Yeah. And then I remember there was an after show for your season. Yeah. And then Sean and I came on the after show and you looked at me and you were like, I have so much more compassion for you now. And I was like, yes.

Because it's just like this thing that nobody will ever understand until they go through it. But that's crazy that you got to hang out in travel Europe while I couldn't figure it out. On somebody else's dime. It's really nice to do. Wow. That's cool. Yeah. Oh, I wish I could have stayed in Bali and Chris Olsey.

I didn't go to Iowa. That's crazy. I was convinced they were putting me back in Iowa because he was going to think he made a mistake and that I was going to be walking the streets of Iowa and he was going to run into me and be like, I want you back. Like, delusional, a little silly, silly Caitlin. I'm trying to remember the lady's name from the dance hall. But she was like 90 and just absolutely killing it out there. That was, God, what was her name? It was like Mary Beth or something funny like that. But it was really cool because it felt like it was such a good, you know, we do all these

extravagant dates but we got to like hang out with these older people who were just like dancing and in the moment and two stepping and this was like their weekends like I don't know it felt so um like we stepped back in time but yeah and it felt like we were back into the world yeah yeah that was like a big deal right so many of these days are so isolated people yeah like people walk in the part that aren't a part of the show yeah running into my buddy you know like they just felt like we were back in the world having a real date which you're good buddy oh he started he started generous with me the coffee company he's like he's like my best friend in the world yeah like h and eight he made in hope like you think he googled where we were and found out

from reality steven i really don't think he did i have to ask him um i think he'd tell you if he did that yeah but he lives right there and so like i don't think this is an uncommon place for them and then i think they showed up and they're like there's a camera and oh who's on the date and they're like ben's on the date he's like oh my gosh like let me go see ben i remember being so excited because i was like, I'm meeting one of your good friends. This is so like out of, like, yeah, that doesn't happen on this show. Like, hey, to meet one of your friends. Everything's such a big deal on that show when it's like a sense of normalcy.

It's such a big deal. Yeah. It was, it was such a, like, it's such an elevated environment. Yeah. Especially in moments like that when you have people around and when you're having a lot of fun. I mean, we're like drinking beer dancing. Yeah.

Like it's really hard to not have fun. To not have fun. Yeah. When you're like doing something like that. Yeah. Um, and I was. I think I was just having fun, which is not common for me. You were nervous at first. Super nervous. Because I think you really wanted to be a good dancer for me. But then you realize how much fun it was and then you just let go. Well, that's what I was saying. Like I like, I like, it was hard for me to have fun on that show. Yeah. Because I'm always in my own head. Yeah. And there's moments where I'm like, okay, this is like just life. And like that was one of those. Totally. Okay. So I have turned into a hot sleeper over the years, especially in the summer. It's probably just from living in Nashville. But some people just run hot. And with two, for, for, little bed hogs stealing the covers it can really feel like a sauna at night and that is why i switched to bull and branch per kale sheets made from the finest 100% organic cotton they have this crisp breathable

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That's ladyworld, L-A-D-Y-World.C-O. But hurry up because they are really going fast. Lady World presented by Elf Cosmetics takes over Destin this September. The night in San Antonio. What was that? The night of our date. Tell me more. Oh, the dip?

No. Oh. What am I blanking? So we had this. I just rewatched. I'll remember. Yeah, it's on TV. Yeah.

What is it? So we had this amazing day, Caitlin, and you can take this out if you'd like to. I don't want to. Yeah, you want to, probably. Oh, no. Is it embarrassing for me? No. Oh.

We have this amazing date. And this, like, I have a little. little bit of a revisionist history, but I'm laying in bed in the same room as Sean and you sneak in and jump in bed with Sean. Oh, that was that night? Yeah. I didn't know that was that same night. Yeah. And so that's why I was like, oh, she's coming to see me. And the show comes to me because I'm in Ireland and I'm like, hey, I think I'm going to go home. Not because I'm mad at Caitlin, but like I don't belong here. Like I'm going home this week anyways. No. And then remember they had you have a conversation with me like, hey, stick around. Yeah. There's, I made a mistake and all

stuff and so I stuck around you saved it I still to this day that is my regret is sneaking out that night one I was very drunk that's cool no it's not that's not that's how every good story starts keep going I thought oh we're all hanging out and like he's now rubbing my back so this is weird yeah I don't know how I mean yeah I remember it being such a big moment for me because I was ready to go home and I was like I don't belong here anymore and then this is I think it's the moment that I had a hint that hey like no matter what we have bigger plans for you yeah because they had said please don't go home we really need you to stay yeah Caitlin really wants you to stay which I did thank you I promised you and and then that's when you and I had the conversation and you're like hey

just please stay and I was like I can stick it out I also remember like that being a breakthrough for me because I was like kind of a breath of fresh air like I have now some validation yeah that like I didn't have before on like yeah at least i'm going to be here for a couple weeks in ireland it's something that i think is one of the most awkward moments i've ever been in my life and at the time being so like in the back i remember sitting on the floor in that bathroom being like what is happening out there this is weird i don't think this is good oh no but but now it's like this is like it has become very like comedic and like how funny is that that like you come prancing in we're so excited you like just picture this in your mind

for anybody listening to this, is like, I'm in a twin bed. He's in a queen next to me. Caitlin, out of nowhere, comes trotting in. She jumps in bed with Sean. And I'm like, all right, that's weird. But like, I'm sure I'll get my time too. Like, it was a group day. Like, I was going to leave the queen to come into your twin.

And then all of a sudden, like, I do notice, like, the sheets are moving in a way that's not like there's something happening. So I'm like, that's fine. But that's how I'm perceiving it. So I'm like, I'm going to leave them. Oh, you thought it was sexual? Well, I didn't know. I mean, I don't know.

Like, I'm like, well, there, like, this is obviously a date that I'm not. There's not a date I'm invited to. And it's in my room that I was sleeping in. So I go to the bathroom and sit on the floor. And then, like, an hour later, I come out because they're waking us all up to catch a flight to Ireland. And I was under a blanket in the corner hiding. And we had thrown a blanket over you while the producers came in to like check on us in the morning. And you hit under the blanket.

Because I think at that point they were probably looking for you. Probably. And you're in the blanket in the corner of our room. and we're all now packing up and getting ready to go. This is so crazy. I'm glad we brought this up, though, because I did not rat you out. I did not say a word, and I want to be clear, I will stand by that, and they will stand by that now, is I never said a word about this.

Ten years I've thought that you told on me. Yeah. I honestly thought you did, and then I felt so terrible, but now I'm learning that you thought more went on that actually did in that bed, or you felt it at the time. I felt it at the time. Which it wasn't. But I did, however, tell him in that moment, you're the one. Yeah.

Which that is, of all the times in the show, that is my biggest regret. Yeah, because he had that, like, in his mind and the rest of the time. That was terrible of me to do. I was being stupid. You had a lot to drink. You're having a good time. You're in your background. Oh, God.

That is my biggest regret. Not anything else. There's a lot that I could regret. That is my, and I mean that. That's my biggest regret is coming down there in that moment because I really screwed things up. We've always remained friends and like you always will shoot it to me straight, good or bad, and you've always been honest with me. And I believe you. I just can't believe that hasn't come up till right now. Yeah, I can't either, Caitlin. This is good for us.

Oh, this is so good. I was like, this is therapeutic. It is. It's very nice. And I needed it. You needed it. We're good now. Wow. Okay, moving on. I also rewatching our horseback date. I was like, we're just horseback. What? You don't remember this? Chip and your, I forget your was in Ireland? Yeah. Okay. Oh, yeah, I do, up to the castle. Yeah. Yeah.

And then we got chased by donkeys. Yeah, I do remember this. I thought, because my horse kept like pulling me forward to eat the grass. Uh-huh. But it made it look like we both really knew what we were doing on the date. Really? Yeah, like we looked like we just knew how to. Yeah.

See, that's big for me. I needed it. You got up there so easily. You helped me up on mine. We were just trotten through the like, what do they call it? Grass. Yes, but the, the countryside. The countryside, yes.

We were just trotting through the countryside of Ireland on these beautiful horses. But it was so much more dramatic than they made a show because I couldn't get my horse to move. But we looked like we knew what we were doing. And then the backdrop looked like AI, which was back to the castle that we ruined. Yeah. But the feeding the donkeys, do you remember that? I do remember all this now. Yes.

It was the same day of our overnight, which now makes sense to me. And I was laughing, watching it back because I was like, on TV, I was like, why are the donkeys chasing us? As we're like running with buckets of food, like, of course they're chasing us. They want their food. And we're like, huh. And you're like, drop the bucket. Drop the bucket. And I like dropped it and we kept running.

It was actually so funny. We rode a boat that day. Yeah. It was a very romantic day. It was a very romantic. And like the setting was insane. It literally looked fake. When I did send you home, did you know that was coming or did you think.

Because I called Nick first. Yeah. So it was between you and Sean, which I thought was crazy. See, I've always had this idea. I think ever since really that moment. I always knew you and Sean were going to end up together. You did. So in my mind, I always had this.

And if you remember our fantasy sweet date, like that evening, I was asking you a lot of questions. And, like, it was more and more obvious through the questions being asked that, like, the Sean and Nick thing, I think you even told me, like, I don't know what I'm going to do because they take up so much of my focus. Yeah. And then you asked me a question that night. You said, what do you think about, like, the two of them? Like, who do you, who would you choose? And I remember being like, yes. And I was like, that's a very weird question to ask me.

Yeah. Because if it was me, you wouldn't care who you were going to choose out of them. But I was so desperate for any answers. I get it. And that's fine. Yeah. But I don't think it was a shock to me. I think it was more of a, I'm reading.

I read the situation correctly. Like I walked into it being like either they've blown this thing up so much that they've ruined this with Caitlin. Yeah. But then that's not exactly a spot I want to sit in where I'm like the guy that fills the gap of like. Them ruining it. I remember you even saying to me, I was like, what's going on with them? Like, what's the, and you were like, am we really going to talk about them? And I was like, oh, yeah, just.

Yeah, no, but seriously, can you answer me because I'm freaking out right now? And I need you to answer me, Ben. And, like, I specifically, it's so weird unlocking so many memories and watching knocking on the window. And you're in your little capri sweatpants. And you have your backpack on and you were walking. And I knocked, being like, I hope he sees me. And he looked up and I was like, oh, well. And then you moved.

me. I did. Yeah. Caitlin, how do you not remember this? You stuck your butt cheeks against the window. Are you being funny? No. I mooned you? You mooned me. God, I am such a grown adult woman. Are you kidding? I remember thinking mooning was so funny at that phase of my life because I was used to moon my family. They'd be like, Caitlin, like don't. And I thought mooning was so funny. I did it to you. Yeah, walking out, like, I was like sad walking around the lake. Like, oh, it's over. And then you're like, yeah. Oh, my God. I'm going to bring back mooning. Yeah. I'm blushing.

I'm like, I'm like, I stuck my. Were you like, I'm turned off? No, because I was like, this is hilarious. Yeah. And like I was looking for any sense of validation at that point. I should flash you. Yeah. I'm mooned.

Yeah. At least I had a free treat as I walked. I flew home from Ireland. Do you still remember my butt cheeks pressed against the glass? That's not cute. No, it's not like a thing that you are like, oh, sick. Yeah. Like, what?

That's like a dumb and dumber move. Like that's not cute. Why would I do that? It was exactly what we needed at the time. It was like a more of like a, hey, Ben, peace out. Like, we'll see you on the other side. Ten years later, we're going to sit down and have a conversation about this. And I'm not going to, you're going to act like you don't remember it.

And I'm going to remember it still. And we're going to laugh because life moves on. Let's talk about. Let's move on to life moving on. Actually, just one quick question about you being the Bachelor. Okay. What does something people still get wrong about you from the Bachelor-Bachelorette? Yeah, I mean, I think probably a lot. I think, you know, you mentioned it.

Like, the perfect Ben thing was hard for me because it felt like I was living up to a standard that I wasn't going to be able to like... That no one could? Nobody could. Yeah. I'm sorry. I still can't handle that I mooned you. Yeah. I just need a second. You got to remember this. I mooned you?

Mm-hmm. It's special. Okay. Okay. Okay. I can't do. Okay. That's my bachelor's. Yeah. Those friends have ass cheeks on the glass. Those are mine. Oh, my God. How embarrassing. America's sweetheart. Oh, yeah, right. The lassoes. Okay. Anyways. Yeah. I mean, I think that was a big deal. I think I would like to believe, I would like to believe that I am less bland than what the show. You are.

showed me to be. I've always told people that about you. Yeah. I mean, because it like was such a characterization of me was like he's so bland. He's so boring. And like that really affected me because at some level, yes, I am.

Like at some of all, I own the fact that I love being a husband. I love being a dad and I love sitting at home and I. That's not boring. That's sweet. Well, thank you. But like I really enjoy that and that's like the highlight of my world. Yeah.

But I think back then in like my mid-20s, I was like I don't want people to keep thinking I'm. boring. That's like a, that's a big detriment to me personally. And maybe I am and that's like affecting me. Other than that, I mean, I really had a great experience on this show. It's done so much good for me. I don't have much association with the show anymore. But it's opened up a whole new career path. It's opened up a whole new friend group, opened up a whole new like lane for me to create. And I'm so thankful for, you know, your like time as the bachelor's at. And then my time as the bachelor. Yeah. It's made my life so much richer. Yeah.

that I really am like, look back. I'm like, I'm just glad it happened. That's nice. I'm also in that place, too. I was angry for a while, but I'm also in that place. And then I remember this the other day that I totally forgot. Somebody was like, oh, you know what I loved was Ben and Lauren's reality show? Oh, goodness.

I forgot you guys did that. They were one of five people to watch it. Yeah. Was it, did it not do well? I don't really know what it did. They asked for a season two. We were broken up, so it was going to be awkward. Oh.

Yeah. We did it. Yeah. I thought it did really well. I just had forgotten. It did well enough that it was the first times they've done that. It was a big strain on both of us, like personally and then also our relationship, but personally it was a big strain.

I lived in a 700 square foot house and that they filmed out of for 40 straight days. Like it was a brutal. Didn't you have an option? Like weren't they like you can do Dancing with the Stars or do this? No. It's wild moments for me. Dancing with the Stars was taken away from me for this. This is a whole big.

Okay. I will say as much as I can't. say that nobody asks me about because nobody knows about this side of this time yes yeah um so i on when i was the bachelor i had a and even when i was younger i had a lot of involvement in um within my community and i always had talked i dream one day of being actively involved in my community from like either a political level or some type of involvement or volunteering levels just like and so the show afterwards said hey we think you should run for office i don't know if you remember that yeah i don't remember mooning you but i do remember the politics yeah the good parts and

and so they're like we're going to create a show about you running for office and we'll help fund the whole thing and i was like wow what an opportunity this is such a big expense and such a tough thing the fundraise for so i went through it i got my name on the ballot um this was like the state of politics looked a lot different back then. I want to be clear that it wasn't so divisive when I was running. I got my name on the ballot and then the show couldn't do it because they'd have to show anybody that was running against me equal amounts of time legally when it comes up political campaign.

So that's when they ripped it from me and said you can either still run for office and film a show or you can film a show and drop out of the race. So I dropped out of the race and we were already under contract for a television. show. So that's where Ben and Lauren came in. This was not supposed to be Ben and Lauren. Real creative on the name, guys. Yeah. Well, it literally was a week that they had to like switch gears here and say no longer a docu-series about Ben Running for Offits. It's now going to be Ben-Lorne happily ever after. It was a massive mess. Yeah. Yeah, but we did it. It wasn't good. No. It was really bad for us. Uh, you can watch the drama play out. It was never healthy, never fun.

Yeah. Neither of us enjoyed it. And it. I can't even imagine. Like, coming out and having to jump into another like filming opportunity of being produced is so hard but with all that being said okay none of these turns in your life you would have taken you would not have winnie oh i like i'm not saying you don't see that no i know you you're not saying that i literally like my wife and i talk about it my prayers at night like all of this has somehow and like just has heard me say so many times I don't know how I did it like I don't know how I got here but like there's moments when Jess is sitting on the floor with my daughter and I'm like it worked yeah and like I tried everything to not get to this point like I tried everything to mess this thing up to where I wouldn't

have a wife that's so beautiful she's perfect pure of heart so loving of me so loving of our daughter a daughter who's like the the biggest joy when I like see her smile or laugh or like giggle or whatever and I've tried everything yeah against maybe popular like opinion yeah to mess that up yeah and I somehow got here and I'm just I say prayers of gratitude nightly like thank you for somehow making this work because it's the best thing ever but at the same time you're to your question no I would never take it back I confidently talk about it like it's so exciting and so fun for me to come back here and talk to you and be like do you remember this day yeah do you remember this conversation. Do you remember asking me this question? Like, I had so much fun with you, Caitlin.

This was such a great experience that built me up to be a better man today. And such a testament to, like, you and, and Jess and your relationship, too, to be able to, like, you know, do that and talk about that. And then you get to go home to your daughter and wife. And, like, I've met just a few times. Like, we don't like, we don't talk about everything. Yes, of course. But I have met Jess a few times. And I'm just, like, baffled by her sweetness. She's she is that way to me She's that way at night Like I

I have this like angel of girls in my life Like I have two girls that are like I You are built different For everything I've done wrong They've done right And just yes you've met her And what you read on her is who she is I love her dearly

I She's such a pure soul But yeah But you are too And like I don't know I just like look at you and your family family. I'm like, what am I doing? Because I love what I do. I'm supposed to be doing what everything is supposed to be the way it is. But I'm like, what am I chasing? I love podcasting.

I can still do that if I settle down and have a baby. Like I keep having this idea in my head of like how scary it all is. But I know that when the timing is right, I'm going to do that same thing. Like I did it. I got here. And it all is supposed to happen the way that it's supposed to happen. There was for me though. And she knows this. Like I was nervous about getting married because I was making my money being the single Bachelor guy. Right, yeah. And even up until the year that we met, the Bachelor had asked me to come back for a second attempt.

And I was like, I can't do this again. That sounds like, mostly because I've gone to bed at 9 o'clock. How did Brad Wilmack do that? I don't know. He did it twice. I'm like, nope. So you're right. And it was, I think for me, it was scary to give up that, like, single title.

Yeah. It's the best thing ever did. But it is a divorcing of this image that now we've lived in for so long of you are known for being single. You are known for dating. You were known for messing the world up and like trying to figure this whole thing out. And once you divorce from that, though, it's freeing. And it's not as big a change as you expect it to be. I think more of the right doors would open for me if I just surrendered to it a little more. Yeah. And I think that's the way you have to look at it. Yeah. I also think like for you and I both, we've lived much of our live single. You get very

used to it. You get very comfortable in it. You start to feel like, hey, I don't desire or I still desire, but I don't need, but if that desire is still there, goodness, like, it's in front of you and you just have to surrender to it and say, I'm willing to walk into this and I'm going to see what the next stage looks like. Yeah. And I will tell you caverns of your heart, worlds open up. Yeah. Everything changes in the most beautiful way. Because you probably have a whole different perspective on life too. Yes. And a different kind of comfort of knowing that, like, when I leave here, I get to go home to my wife. Yeah. And I'm going to like eat with her and we'll be in bed at nine o'clock watching a movie and I get to hold my daughter and I get to look at her for two hours

in the middle of the day that I'm like could have been working you know yeah but instead I'm just looking to her and it's so much better and it's so much more valuable yeah and I'm telling you when you're in it you're you'll never take it back God somebody have sex with me anyone that I don't I always ruin a beautiful moment with a bad joke uh that's it's just so cool because I guess I just know you like and now I know Jess And now I just see what you guys have. And I'm like, I'm just so happy for you both. And I'm just so happy for like everything that has led you to where you are and how you've remained so true to yourself through.

Like there's a lot of people in this world as you know that this stuff changes them or they go different directions. But like I look at you as someone that's like you, you don't care as much about the Instagram and the like you enjoy certain things and you enjoy enjoy your jobs that you get out of it. But you don't like focus on that. And I like that. Well, yeah. I mean, in 2023, my word was content. I want to be content. I want to learn how to be content.

This year it's self-trust. And I think you're right. I thought about that too when I was coming here today. I was like, I wonder what kind of questions. I don't get interviewed a lot anymore. I interview a lot, but I don't get interviewed a lot. The fame world is such a small piece of my life to really not a piece at all. And I was like, why is that?

And was that a choice by me or was that just because of how this spit me out? It didn't do dancing with the stars. And so like there wasn't the longevity. And I think a lot of that is because, one, it was the natural progression for me. Two, it honestly at some point made me very unhealthy. And I had to give it up. The more I pursued being relevant, the more I pursued trying to stay in the spotlight, the less healthy I became personally.

And the less healthy I became to my friends and my family. And I noticed it. And I also had a group of friends who called me out on it. And so I had to make the choice to say, this isn't, this is going to be a piece. It is not going to be the focus. And as a result, like there has been incredible, like, you know, we still put food on the table. Yeah. Like, we still have things happening.

But me being in the spotlight was not a healthy path for me to be the best husband and best man to my wife. And so I had to kind of say, now I'm moving forward, which was not easy, Caitlin. No. But I'm so happy that it did. And I'm so happy that it is. Because it's just such a different beast of, you know, I mean, it's any job that you get yourself wrapped up in and go down the wrong path or whatever. But I try and do a good job of not like chasing it so hard, but like enjoying what I have.

But I have to check myself a lot of times. Yeah. And other people have checked me too. But it's like, I think the more you see other people do it too, the more you're like, oh, I don't want to do that. Like that's, you see people lose themselves. And I'm like, I've done that already. Well, and you've built something so beautiful that you are.

are now not having to chase as much as you get to build. Yeah. You had to chase for a while. I'm sure. But once you build this thing where there's a sign behind you with the year brand on it and you have a whole freaking room full of your rosé and wine. And my doggies. And your doggies.

Like you now get to build. And that's a great spot to get into. But be content and be happy for this because you've done well too. You've done really well. Thank you. Right back at you. I knew this was going to be just such a nice little therapeutic session. between us. Well, I'm happy to be here. Thanks for invite me. I'm so, like, I'm so grateful

that you came and grateful for Jess that she's like, go and like sending videos of Winnie. And like, it's so, all just so special. And it's so cool to see where everybody's at. And obviously, we've remained friends over all these years. So it's so cool to just have you and talk. Even though you just said, like, you've never been really interviewed. I'm like, I want to do a whole other podcast, not Bachelor related with questions for you. So at some point down the road, maybe three years. Yeah. Give me, give us time once, like, like, You know, people are like, oh, that guy. Yeah.

You want to hear from going on. Well, wait, are you still doing your generous coffee? Yeah, generous coffee is going so well. Good. We celebrate a year this weekend and we're on Indiana. Oh, cool. We've had the business for seven years. We have a roastery and it's the coolest spot.

We have people that come over from the jail that's across street for their next step counseling. We have people of all certain abilities working in there now. So it's like a really fun space. Super cool. So it's, yes, it's a huge. part of my life and focus and it's still very active that's awesome and people can order it online right yeah yeah generous coffee.com or come see us at the roastery you'll love it I would

absolutely love it you should open one in Nashville maybe one day Caitlin well you will I'll be a barista for a day yeah get the people talking by then you might need a job yeah it's in five years I'm like calling him like please open one all of it with you please I got canceled for mooning everybody on my podcast that'd be awesome oh my God thank you so much wait wait wait Anything else that you wanted to talk about that? I think I really just came here excited to catch up with you, Kail. Generis is such a big deal to me. So go to Generous Coffee.com, and we donate 100% of our profits to nonprofits.

So I don't make money on it. So I have to find other ways to make a living because everything's donated. But that's like my main. What can people do to help? Buy coffee. So much coffee. Buy all the coffee. I'm going to go buy some coffee after this.

Yeah. So that would be awesome. Cool. It is a passion project. And it's the dream that far beyond. on me, this company still exists, and it gives back to great organizations doing great work. It's really cool. Hi, guys.

My name is Hayden, and a lot of you have been asking me to start a podcast. Okay, I'm totally kidding. Nobody asked me to start a podcast. The world did absolutely not need another podcast, but I wanted to because there's no place on the internet where I can yap for 30 to 45 minutes straight with my best friends, you guys, and just shoot the shit. talk about all of my favorite things like social media, pop culture, reality TV, influencers. We all know I love a good influencer.

And that's what you can expect from my new podcast. A lot of you have been asking. This is a space for some real conversations with some of my favorite creators, reality stars, maybe even a celebrity or two if they answer my DM. This is all about the world behind the curtain that I really want to share with you guys. Allow me to ask the questions that you've been dying to know the answers to. And allow me to tell my guests that a lot of you have been asking. You guys can listen to, follow, rate and review. A lot of you have been asking with me, Hayden Cohen, wherever you

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