Off The Vine with Kaitlyn Bristowe - Kaitlyn’s Bachelorette Reunion | Ben Zorn: The Dog Guy, the Black Eye & a Tear-Free Decade!

Episode Date: June 26, 2025

#853. Ben Zorn is back as Kaitlyn continues her 10-year Bachelorette reunion series—yes, the guy from the escape room one-on-one! He shares what it was really like getting cast at the last minute, the story behind giving Jared a black eye, and how he ended up with the “dog guy” edit on Paradise.Ben reflects on what he wishes viewers saw, whether he’s finally cried since his tear-free confession, and how life has changed since reality TV—complete with a wife, two kids, and way less Bachelor buzz these days. Tune in NOW!If you’re LOVING this podcast, please follow and leave a rating and review below! PLUS, FOLLOW OUR PODCAST INSTAGRAM HERE!Thank you to our Sponsors! Check out these deals!Booking.com For the bookings you’ve dreamed of, list your property on Booking.com!Apartments.com: The Place to find a place! Splendid: Right now, Splendid is offering our listeners 20% off when you go to Splendid.com and use promo code VINE at checkout or when you shop at Splendid in stores.EPISODE HIGHLIGHTS: (6:11) How a last-minute casting twist landed Ben on Kaitlyn’s season just days before filming(9:37) Ben reveals he can’t cry—and why that’s more literal than you’d expect(14:00) The truth behind giving Jared a black eye during the boxing group date(20:40) Reliving their escape room date—Kaitlyn’s bird phobia vs. Ben’s fear of snakes(26:15) What really happened on Paradise—and how his dog storyline took over the edit(27:55) Life 10 years later: reconnecting with his now-wife, becoming a dad, and where he's at now!See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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hey vinos real quick if you are listening right now which obviously you are or you wouldn't be hearing this can you hit the subscribe or follow button on whatever platform you're on please that one simple thing helps more than you even realize it allows me to keep growing on this podcast which is very important to me also bring bringing on even better guests and making these episodes the best they can possibly be, obviously for you. That's the only favorite I'm going to ever ask, okay? It truly means the world to me. Thank you.

Now, let's get into it. Hey, everybody. Welcome to Off the Vine. I'm your host, Caitlin Bristow. And we are back with another Bachelorette recap. And today we celebrate the 10-year anniversary. And we have one of the original fan favorites joining us today. Wow.

Very cool. Which I apparently liked to call you a hunk of a man and a babe soda. Obviously, I'm talking about Ben Zorn, and we just kind of talk about, like, I had everything planned, but we kind of just went on our own little journey there. All over the place. And I feel like people are going to take a lot away from this episode. I think so. Yeah. So thank you for coming.

You're very welcome. Okay. Ready for a roast? Yeah. Ladies and gentlemen, give it up for Ben Zorn. Seriously, Ben, when they said find love on reality TV, they didn't mean work on your fitness for the rest of your life. What? I mean, you got eliminated in week six and still look like you were prepared for a body.

building competition. That's like kind of nice. Oh yeah, I did do that. Yeah. It's almost like you thought, if I can't win her heart, at least I'll win most shredded award. This is nice. This is like a compliment. You're like, thank you. And let's not forget your epic showdown with Jared. That was less of a fight and more of an audition tape for an action movie where the only thing that gets hurt is your chances at love. This is stupid. But hey, you did end up finding love in the end, which is great. It just took a little longer than your workouts at the gym. Keep it up, Ben. Remember, it's not about the looks or the biceps. It's about the heart unless you're still trying to date on reality TV in which case good luck it's not that good

it's the 10 year anniversary i can't believe it's already been 10 years like that's wild i remember calling you ben zed because that's how we say zee in canada that was the first time i'd ever heard that was it was it ever heard zed ever and i liked it i was like okay i'll go with it i like it it sounds i still call you that to this day like what i'm watching i'm like oh ben zed okay so you're in nashville you flew here for this podcast for the 10-year reunion. I did. Have you been to Nashville before? Yeah.

I've done a couple of bachelor parties here. I think I've done like a one-off something here and there. Thanks for calling. Yeah. Just didn't let me know. I haven't been in a long time. Okay, fine. A long time, to be fair.

Okay, fair enough. Well, you have to fly out today. I'm doing the Nashville pedal tavern. Are you really? Everybody in Nashville laughs at me and like, because it's like such a touristy thing to do. Oh, it's fantastic. Canadian girlfriends in town and I know they will eat that shit up. And I'm like, we are going to have a time today.

Yeah. We had a time last night and it's going to be a good time. Okay, I want to go back to the beginning. So I don't remember if we've ever talked about this, but how did this happen for you? Like, did someone nominate you? Did you put it out there yourself? Or you're like, I'm going to go into the casting director, find you. What happened?

So it was a funny story. So obviously, the bachelor airs, you know, every Monday and all that stuff. And I got a call, I think, on Tuesday. Yeah. And I, you know, it was, they call was, hey, this is so-and-so from The Bachelor. You know, are you single? And I was like, yeah. And then they were like, well, your friend Liam nominated you for the show.

Stop. Would you be interested? And I was like, sure, whatever. So they nominated me and didn't tell me. And, uh, oh, hilarious. I didn't know that. Yeah. And then, um, so we, so I went through the first thing and they were like, okay,

we need to send 10 pictures, fill out this questionnaire, that whole deal. I think I filled out half the questionnaire and sent like four pictures because they only had like four pictures. I probably pulled them off Facebook because I don't have any professional pictures. Yeah. A lot of different time back then. Yeah. And then made it a couple, like made it, like made it a couple more stages. And then this is all in a matter of a month. Like from the first call to stepping out of a limo was like no way. I think my official video that everybody, I don't know what other people do. I know I've seen some like really cool ones. I was no jokes sitting in a chair in my buddy's living room at like 11 p.m. the

night before it was due. And like his wife is holding a. a lampshade for lighting. Stop. And I was probably wearing just like a plain black shirt and jeans. Probably what I'm wearing right now. This outfit. Yeah, pretty much this outfit. Funny.

And I was like, okay, I'm definitely not going to get picked now because like I mailed it in completely. And they called me back the next day and they were like, it was so genuine. We loved it. I was like, fantastic. Can you imagine how many videos they get people just so performative? Especially now. So I'm sure you've gotten into this before.

for it. But I feel like our season was the last one before everything really changed. I think there were a couple of seasons after that where it was like 50-50. And then now it's like you have no idea if they actually want to be there or if they're just trying to get 500,000 followers. Right. Our season, and I can speak for the guys themselves. There was not one person that was going on there to be famous. Right. Like I think the only person was Tanner and it wasn't to be famous. It was because he just was a fan of the show. We talked to. I interviewed him. I interviewed him. yesterday and we talked about that like he was like he literally was like I was such a reality tv fan he goes I knew everything that was happening in the bachelor world because I watched it all

the time yeah he was like there to like be the commentator yeah which he did a good job at he did a great job at if there if we had any questions on the show about like what was going to happen it was like Tanner what's going to happen you you're our guy a resident like knowledge guy that's funny but yeah I watched I actually watched I think like the first four seasons with my mom, like religiously. And then things just fell off. And like I hadn't seen the show for probably 15 years, 10, 15 years or something like that until this all came along and then just jumped on.

And originally, so going back to kind of how I got on, but originally they were going to say that I was going to be on next season. And so they called me, I think, on Friday. And they were like, yeah, we're going to have you on next season. You know, we just think it'll be better fit and that kind of thing. I was like, okay. And then on, I think Sunday, they called me. hey, actually, we need you on this season.

You're flying on three days. And I was like, oh, crap. That's wild. Yeah. And were you doing personal training at the time? Yeah. So was it easy for you to just, like, kind of leave? Or was that, like, nightmare?

So it was actually really easy. So my, it was one of the reasons why I actually ended up going because that was one of my worries. I was like, I'm not going to leave. Right. I lose my job and all my clients and all that stuff. And I talked. Well, we didn't know.

We didn't know at the time. We knew nothing. Right. We didn't even know it was going to be YouTube. So true. I think at the time, I want to say, because it was a month out, there was like 10 of you guys left still. Yeah. And I wasn't even watching the show actively.

My boss, when I told him, I was like, hey, I just got a call from ABC. Like, they're thinking about, you know, maybe moving forward. This was, you know, early in the process. I was like, just so I know, so I'm not stringing them along, like, would you be cool with it? And he's like, oh, you have to do it. I was like, damn it. I was like, I was going to use that as my excuse not to go. And now he's like making a, so that was reason why I was like, okay, I'm going.

But would you be with your wife, with your wife? with your children if you didn't go on that show? I don't know. You never know. I'm a firm believer. It sounds cheesy, but I mean, people say it. And I believe everything happens for a reason. Yeah, same.

Every single step. I mean, she was local in San Jose. So is there a chance that we could have met for sure? Right. We all, like when we, so we met after I got off the show, but before it aired. That was our initial interaction because she had reached out with me for personal training through another friend. So that's how it actually started.

And then I, you know, right before it all happened, before it aired, I was like, my life is going to go a hundred miles an hour. I had no idea what to expect. Yeah. The last thing I need to be right now is in a relationship. And like, I'm going to be all over the country, all over the place. And so we went our separate ways. And we kept in touch here and there, but we went our separate ways. And then two years later, I was like, yeah, you know what?

I think that one girl, I think that was the one. Really? And so I went back. She says she's known since day one. Really? Oh, how romantic. Yeah. Okay. I feel like a lot of people don't realize what a whirlwind that show is. Like obviously we watch as a fan or as just like, you know, the audience watches the TV and you see an hour

and a half, but we're filming like what? 17 hours a day. Oh yeah. Seven days a week. And then it's all just, you know, boiled down to an hour and a half every Monday and people think, oh, I know exactly who that person is. Do you think you were portrayed fairly? I think. I think, you were portrayed fairly. I think, I think I was portrayed fairly based on what I gave the camera for better or worse, right? I feel like it was a good representation of who I was. Yeah. What I didn't feel like it showed and it was my own fault. Yeah.

Was I didn't show like a fun side. I felt like I was too reserved because I was so what I would say like in your head. Yeah. I was so nervous about putting something out there that I would, you know, I'd make a fool myself or something like that. So that, honestly, that held me back from a lot of, from being more relaxed, Pisces. What are like characteristics of Pisces? Are they reserved?

I think they're more reserved. Wait, when is it worth it? February 22nd. Okay, okay, water sign. So they're water sign. So we're kind of go with the flow from what I know of it. That's about it. But we're not a crier.

Oh, so I've got an update for you. Oh, good. Because I was good at ask. That was like a whole thing on the season that you didn't cry. Yeah. So I was watching, I was rewatching the episode. I was like, I didn't even realize I talked about that. that and so fun fact um i can't cry stop so i don't have uh it's called i don't have emotional tear

ducks apparently yeah that's a thing so apparently there's two kinds of tear ducts there's emotional tear ducts and then there's the the tear ducts that just lubricate your eye like yeah when you you know like with onions or anywhere we're going to get dry and the way that we found it out is my son like he would cry but like he would never have any tears when we went to see the doctor and we're like, what is going on? And finally the doctor was like, I think like he's got this rare thing and it's genetic where you just don't cry from like emotionally. Like you can get like you get teary eyed, but you don't cry.

And so my son, he's cried physically, but no tears ever come out of his mouth. Yeah, I know. And I was thinking back and I was like, you know, I used to say like I'd never cried like since my mom passed away. But then I was thinking about it. I was like, I don't know if I've ever like actually. cried, cried. And then my daughter has the same thing. You're kidding me. I didn't know this is a thing. I didn't either. But me and both of my kids,

they, you're all robots. But they, they, they don't have tears when they like streaming down their face. And it's so weird because other kids will cry and like they'll have, you know, waterworks. Yeah. And I just don't know what to do because I'm, I've not used to that. That is crazy. I was thinking, I think I even just said it out loud. Like, I wish I had that. And I'm like, no, I don't. It is my favorite thing in the world to just have a good cry and release so much like sad energy and then you move on. Do you feel like you just have a lot of trapped tears in there? I don't think so. I don't cry, but I'm emotional. Just nothing comes out, if that makes any sense. Yeah, that is really crazy. Yeah. I learned something today and that is that that is,

what is it, what's it called? I have no idea what it's called. Familial dissonate. You've got it. There we go. I've got that. Moving on, that's a really tough transition for me. But did you rewatch the season back while it was airing? I did. Yeah. I rewatched it again. Do you remember what it was like watching back? Like were you with friends? Did you have watch parties? Oh yeah. We did like a weekly. Did you make the t-shirts that said like hashtag team Ben Z? Yeah. Yeah. We definitely did. I don't know about team bed Zed, but we definitely had we definitely had the watch parties. I mean, it was so long ago now that I'm thinking about it. But what did your friends think? What did your friends think? What did your family? Oh, they were so pumped.

Really? So my friends were pumped. My family, you know, my dad's from Austria. Yeah. And so like, wait, your dad's from Austria? Yeah, I was born in Austria. Did I know that? You should have told you about it.

Talk about it for an hour. She also met like, probably when I told you, probably met 24 other dudes that same time. So you were like, yeah, whatever. But that is crazy. Yeah. Oh, okay. Yeah. So, I mean, again, like reality TV is like, as far as back then, my dad was like, that's cool.

Yeah. Are we going to meet her? I'm like, I don't know. You're like, no, sadly. Maybe. Wait, do you know that the, I think it was the rose ceremony that I sent you home, my apologies, was we were in like a sick mansion that David Beckham and Victoria Beckham got married. I remember that. That's cool.

Okay, let's talk about the boxing date. Okay. I talked to Tanner about this and I asked him the same question. Do you know that I did not plan that date? No. So I was mortified that you guys had to fight each other. Well, we thought it was a joke at first. I don't know if, I don't know if Tanner talked about this.

No. But like when we walked in. We were like practicing, boxing. And in my mind, I was like, this will be fun. We're getting trained by Layla Ali, but we're going to go out there and we're going to have to do something stupid, like, you know, fight with like sock and boppers or whatever, something, right? And we get out there.

And then we were on stage. And I still, at this moment, still think that it was going to be fake. Or we're going to do a dance battle or something. And then I thought, you know, they'd get them in the ring and then they announced, oh, you're doing a dance battle actually. Right. It wasn't until, I can't remember who the first one. was, but it wasn't until the first punch was thrown.

I was like, oh, shit. You're like, we're doing this. And then I was like, oh, okay. It was so violent. Like they actually, you guys were literally punching each other in the face. Oh, yeah. It was, I mean, not fair at all. I mean, me and Jared in the ring is not fair at all.

That is literally like fighting a little child, like size wise. Like he was, he's just a smaller guy. Yeah. You're a bigger guy. How tall are you? Six three. Six three. and you're like literally a trainer built like a tree and you're just like knocking out poor little Jared

and you can't not go for it because men have testosterone and well not not having that but but like I played football and if I if I got knocked out by somebody that was smaller than me like my football buddies would never have let me down ever you're like sorry Jared this one's for the boys boom literally I was like I just can't do it because you gave him a concussion didn't you I think it came out later that I did. Yeah. But again, like, I shouldn't have even been in the ring with them. I know. And I was worried like, okay, like, what if we get in there and he catches me with something? I was like, I'm just going to try and end this quick so that it's like not going to be a thing. And I felt so bad. And were you guys like friends in the, who didn't get along in the house

besides the obvious Sean and Nick? I think it was pretty much Sean and Nick. So here's my. Obviously people didn't like JJ for a minute. Yeah. So I didn't like JJ on the show. But we connected after the show and I like love JJ. I mean I've kind of like not I've definitely not distanced myself but I'm kind of like on an island in the Bay Area there's nobody else there and so it's just happens where I just lost touch with people. I'll text every once in a while but that's just how it is. But JJ like came we went to like a hockey game one time and it was fun.

Yeah. Our date was cool. What I love. minus the birds. Yeah, of course. What I loved about our date, because it wasn't a thing then. I had never heard of an escape room before that. It was after our date, like a year or two after is when all these escape rooms started popping up. So, I mean, I think we kind of had a say in that, like, pumping it up. But it was so much fun at the time. And I, like, it really created like this whole new trend thing. I couldn't believe it because, yeah, I had never heard of an escape room either.

And so to me, I'm like, this is crazy that they're putting up. in a room with snakes and I should have thought like duh these are trained snakes and like they're not going to kill us because they wouldn't do that to us on a TV show like hey you might die by the way like well I remember and I remember thinking like oh this is going to be one of those we got to solve puzzles or something like that and I never thought anything like it wouldn't be that crazy but when I think it was the moment I don't even know if they showed it but we pulled out the brick and there was a note in there and like I like there was something something in it and I just dumped it on the ground and I was in my head I was like oh it's like a plastic scorpion to scare us and I remember pulling the note out and we were reading it and as we were reading it I saw the scorpions start crawling away I didn't say anything because I didn't want to freak you out at the time but I was like oh shit this is very real like they got very real quick and there's like maggots that you had to like go through I mean honestly snakes maggots scorpions the creepy guy in the bed was like one of the scariest parts but have you ever ever see you ever see you

someone so terrified of a bird. No, never, never in my life. I had a full-blown anxiety attack like in your arms. Yeah. I was like, I can't do this. And I was like so embarrassed because I'm like, it's pigeon. Like just kick him out of the way, move on. But I was so terrified, like, shaking and like full-blown anxiety over pigeons. It was wild. I mean, I didn't know what to do in that moment because I'm like, I don't like, what do I tell her? Like, it's okay. It's just a pigeon. And I'm like, no, you don't say that to somebody that's terrified of pigeons. Of course, don't think it's just a pigeon. Imagine you're like, bitch, this is a pigeon. That would look great on TV. Yeah. No, you were so good and I was so mad at them because I was like, you don't go through pigeons

in an escape room. You literally did that just to like torture me. A hundred percent. But I would have rather taken the snakes all day long over. But I couldn't believe it. When we opened that door and there was snakes wrapped around a toilet. Well, I remember the first time, and I've told the story a bunch of times, but the first time when we went to open the door, it was the moment or when I did it, it, I was, I pushed the door open, it was heavy. And I was like, why is this door so heavy? And I, I cracked it open like this much. And I don't know if you remember this, but the snake was like this high. I mean, I don't know if you can say it, but this high off the ground. Yeah. It was like trying to climb up the wall. Yeah. And I knew I closed the door right. It was like, if I had opened it,

it would have like fallen on us. That's when I was like, are you serious? Like I don't like, I'm not, I'm not scared of snakes, but I also like don't like snakes really. Yeah. And I was like, I don't want to have to step over a 15-foot boa to get to whatever we're doing. Like, I'm okay if they're in the room. Right. No, you actually had to like go into the toilet that they were wrapped around and they're like surrounding the room. Yeah.

That part I was actually okay with. No, you weren't. No, no. I was okay with like going in and grabbing the stuff out of toilet. Like that part was fine. It was when the snake was like, I'm like, I don't want to step over a snake to get there. That was my thing. I wonder what they would have done if they like attacked us.

They probably fed them before. Who knows? People probably were so disappointed when they actually went to an escape room because they're like, oh. I know. Have you done an escape room since? No. So I've done a- Traumatized.

You thought there were going to be pigeons there? Probably in the parking lot or something. Yeah. I'm like, I'm not even risking it. Yeah. I've done a couple. And they're a lot of fun.

And there's no live animals and there's no live people. I want to go backwards a little bit because the sumo wrestling date. Yeah. You weren't on the sumo wrestling date. But did you get woken up by the... Oh, I did. You did. I did.

Yeah. I mean, I don't know what, I don't know. Who did you share a room with? I was in the far corner one where I think it was me, JJ, Tanner, Clint. I think Ben H was in there and Jared, like our whole room, I think up until like week five, we're all still there. I was like, we still got it. You're like this good juji room.

Yeah. Because I think there was, what, there's three bunk beds or four bunk beds. Yeah. It was four. Yeah. Who's the messiest? God, it's been so long ago. I don't even know.

I don't even remember. Really? I mean, everybody kind of like lived out of their suitcase. case for a cup for, I mean, especially in the mansion for, what, three weeks. Yeah. And then we all, I think we were all paired up in rooms after that. Yeah. Because I mean, I think sometimes they do other mansions or houses.

But when we went to San Antonio and Ireland, I think we were all paired up like buddy, buddy. Yeah. I can't remember. I don't even remember who I roomed with. I think Ben or Jared or something like that. Were you sad? You weren't on the sumo wrestling date or happy about that? I was happening to have to wear a diaper.

Yeah. I mean, I was dying. I'm in the airport this morning, rewatching it. Yeah. And I was dying with the whole Joe, Joe Bailey. I literally saw his nutsack like so many times. I was just like, and he was like, it is where it is, sweetheart. Joe is the best.

He is so funny. He made me laugh so hard. But then I remember at one point in Ireland, we had like a really deep conversation. And I was like, holy shit, you also have a deep side? What? Like, he was so funny. Yeah. But him, those guys in those diapers, like,

Like, somehow I did find it hot because I am a butt guy. Yeah, there you go. And I got to see all of their tushes in these, what are they called, the Mawashi or something? Oh, I can't remember. But I remember Sean getting in so much trouble because he smacked one of the guys on the butts. And apparently that's like disrespectful in that culture to like smack it. He was like, yeah, go get him and smack him. And he got in trouble from the guy that was like, yeah.

Oh, my gosh. Is there anything that didn't make TV that you wish did? It's been so long. I know. It's hard to go back. I haven't done one of these in so long, but I remember people asking that. Yeah. I remember having an answer, but I don't know off the top of my head right now.

I'm trying to think. Because there were so many funny moments. Were you still in the mix when I snuck out of my hotel room and went down to guys' rooms? Was that in Ireland? Yeah. I was there when you did it for Nick. We didn't know. I don't think I knew.

Who do you keep in touch with the most out of the season? I'm trying to think. For a while, I was keeping fairly good touch with Ben. Tanner, Jared. We did a lot of the same, like appearances and stuff, JJ for a little bit. Yeah. But those, I feel like you guys had that solid group of friends. Yeah. Yeah. So we were like we, we kept in touch for the most part. And then there was a couple other people, but it just, it's like distance. And I'm terrible at it. I know that I'm bad at it. Like the whole out of sight out of mind thing. Yeah. But I love those guys. I still to this day, I talk positively about them.

And I mean, obviously, I feel like we had the best season ever. I loved. I literally can't think of one guy that I didn't. Like, obviously, I went through some stuff on the show with people. But, like, looking back now, I'm like, everyone was so great. Everybody. It was, yeah, it's pretty wild. I jumped quickly, but I want to go back.

I loved your edit on Paradise, the dog stuff. Oh, yeah. Because I was like, it me, I would be the same way. So, no, so, oh, maybe that was one. You asked me the question earlier about, like, what, like, what did they not show or something like that? That was a perfect one where I, I think I had made it through pretty much the entire season. And I hadn't really connected with anybody at that time. And I don't even think I talked about, I talked about my dog like two sentences.

And it was with Raven at the time. Yeah. And it was like the first time because she had just gotten a dog. I had just gotten a dog right before we both came on the show. Of course, they made it. They edited it. So it's like, I'm talking about my dog. And then they don't show Raven's response.

And I was like, God. Where is Benzzi now? What does your life look like 10 years later? Tell me everything. It's wild. So obviously I have a wife. I have a wife. I have two kids.

They're amazing. My wife is an absolute superstar. Wow. I have two amazing kids. One and four. Oh, what are their names? Olivia just turned one and Logan just turned four. Oh, cute.

Oh, I love those names. They're amazing. They have amazing personalities. They're so cool. It's so fun to watch them grow. I mean, I know like parents obviously always are, you know, that's their life goal is not to do this. But it just, it kind of just takes over. You know, this is your job.

So I go to work and I come home and it's like you don't get a break. Like go right in the dad mode until the kids go to sleep. But it's so much fun, especially now. Like the older they get every step, it just gets better. I'm not, I'm being completely honest. I'm not under one years old as guys. Maybe I think moms have more of a connection. Yeah.

But dads, maybe other guys do or maybe it's because I don't have tears. Who knows? But, but it's just, it's really hard. There's nothing you can do, you know? That's the thing. No, you are useless pieces of shit. Pretty much for that first year. Yeah.

I always call them, you're a screen door on a submarine. Like you're useless. Yeah. It doesn't make sense. Exactly. And you can't do anything right. And it's so hard on the woman. So hard.

Because your hormones are going through like a roller coaster. The man can't do what a woman can. So then you're and, you know, in a relationship, I take it out on the relationship because you're my safe space. Yeah. So then it's like you just build this little resentment. And then you get past that phase and you're like, refall in love almost once you get through that hard part.

Well, I think what's also so hard, especially in like those early years of a relationship as parents. Yeah. I think a lot of times people, especially nowadays, they feel like it needs to be so equal. Like you have to help and all that stuff. But while the relationship needs to be equal, what was so great about my wife and I's relationship is we understand that there's only so much that I can do in that moment. And I had worked the next day.

So it's like me waking up at 3 a.m. To help feed when I had to wake her up to feed anyway serves no purpose. And I sleep like a log. I wasn't going to wake up anyway. But like to her credit, she would not wake me up because she knew I had work the next day. And so once that year passed and like we had the, she was on the, both our kids were on the bottle and that kind of stuff. Then obviously I can help out.

Yeah. Do people still recognize you from Bachelorette? No. Really? It's like so, so rare. Really? I laugh about it because right when I got off the show, I mean, obviously the show was massive at the time. Massive.

I couldn't go anywhere. Yeah. Because in the Bay Area, like we don't have celebrities. We have like tech moguls, you know, which nobody recognizes anyway. Yeah. And so I was like, the guy. I couldn't go anywhere. And the ratings for our season were pretty good.

Great. Yeah. Nice job. But yeah, so that first year to two years was just insane. And then it started to get like, okay, not your daily life, but just like concerts and stuff. Now, I mean, I haven't been to a concert in a long time because of kids, obviously. But now if I go to a concert, it'll be like one or two here and there, but it's not, it's not crazy.

happens. It still happens for sure. Yeah. That's crazy. I always just think like 10 years later, that was, I'm not, this is not me being like our season was iconic. It was just so controversial. Well, I think what was so unique about our season is we were the first ones that had social media involved. The first ones, I'll never forget. Me and Tanner got sent home on the same day. We went back to the hotel and we got our phones back and I'll never forget because I had like 380 followers before any of this. Right? And then, And both Tanner and I turned on her phones, and it was like 9,000. I was like, what?

Yeah. And then it was like a thousand a day. That was in the 2000. And it was wild. But that was the first one where everything just skyrocketed. Yeah. Before that. Because everyone's like, holy shit, we can follow these people and not to see who they are on TV.

We get to see their afterlife. Yeah. Yeah, that was wild. I remember Sean telling me, he's like, I think you bought followers because I woke up one day after it was after the women tell all on crystal season i went out that night and i woke up the next morning and i literally gained like 350 000 followers overnight are you serious and i was like and i was that when they announced you as a bachelor's no it's not before that yeah it was before it was they definitely were buttering me up to make it seem like i had like the bachelorette

seat where they put like the person that i got like the interview that the you know like they were really, I had my own dressing room and all the girls had separate ones. So I was like, I'm getting some sort of treatment here. Yeah. So I think people thought it was going to be me, but I had just gotten like dumped in Bali. And then it was women tell all. And then I woke up and I was like, what the hell? Yeah. And I remember being like, that's crazy. And Sean was like, you definitely bought those followers. And I was like, I swear on everything. I don't even know how to buy followers. Yeah. But yeah, social media. Just like. crazy. Last question. If you could go back and do it all over again, would you do it?

100%. Yeah. Yeah. I would 100% do it again. Maybe not in today's day and age, but like when we did it, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. I tell people all the time, as long as you're confident and comfortable with who you are. Yeah. And you can like stand up for it. Yeah. I think it's an amazing show. Thank God. Everything happened the way it should have. Yeah. Like you said, everything's meant to be. I'm so happy you came here to do this interview. Yeah. I'm glad I came to The first one that's been in person. Are you serious? And it's so good to see you.

Yeah, it's good to see you too. I can't believe it. I love this shit so much. I can't wait to talk to all my guys.