Off The Vine with Kaitlyn Bristowe - Kelly Sullivan Walden: WTF Are Our Dreams Telling Us?

Episode Date: January 17, 2023

Dreams are absolutely fascinating … but also can be really frikkin’ confusing and strange. So, to get all the answers to her many questions, Kaitlyn invited dream expert, speaker, and author Kelly Sullivan Walden AKA Doctor Dream on the pod to hear directly from the source! Kaitlyn and Kelly are talking about all things dreams and dreaming: Does every dream mean something? How can we remember our dreams? What is going on with reoccurring dreams and can we put an end to them? And, what are precognitive dreams and how do we know if we’re experiencing them? Kaitlyn is diving into a reoccurring dream of her own and Kelly shares why Kaitlyn’s dreams might be indicating what’s next for her. Kelly also explains her OGLE method and how to apply it to your own life in real time. To learn more about Kelly and get her books, visit kellysullivanwalden.com, and to get started on your own dream journey, visit kellysullivanwalden.com/dreamwork!  Thank you to our sponsors! Check out these deals for the Vinos: PELOTON - Explore Peloton Row and their financing options at onepeloton.com/row.  NUTRAFOL - Get $15 off your first month’s subscription at Nutrafol.com when you use promo code VINE. PROGRESSIVE - Quote at Progressive.com to join the over 29 million drivers who trust Progressive.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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Quote at Progressive.com to join the over 29 million drivers who trust Progressive. Welcome to Off the Vine with Caitlin Bristow. Get ready to laugh, connect, and feel empowered with Caitlin and her guests as they Thip wine, lots of wine, and get candid. They say vulnerability creates connection. So save the highlight reel for Instagram, because when we're among vinos, there's no filter. It's time to unwind. Here's your host, Caitlin Bristow.

All right, welcome to Off the Vine. I'm your host, Caitlin Bristow. Why did I just want to call you guys my Vinoonians? That just came into my brain. Anyways, am I okay? Who knows? Moving on, today I got to talk with an award-winning dream expert, celebrity dream analyst, international best-selling author, and inspirational speaker Kelly Sullivan, aka Dr. Dream.

She hosts the Kelly Sullivan-Waldon Show podcast, and she has interpreted dreams for Dr. Oz, hosts from The Real, Logan Paul, Stasi Schroeder, Tofer Grace, the Housewives of N. Why? Is that New York, Caitlin? Yes, it is. And the OC and many more. Now, if you've listened to my podcast with my sister, Haley, we did some speculating about dreaming. And I realized I had some learning to do. So one of my favorite things about podcasting is the way we get to learn together, me and you listening here. It's just a beautiful thing. So hop in, buckle up, enjoy the ride. Wow, who remembers Miss Frizzle from the magic school bus? I feel like there is an episode where they drove the bus into an ear. And that's us. Okay? Not a I don't know what's wrong with me. Maybe I'm dreaming right now. I'm going to let you enjoy this episode with Dr. Dream. Hi, how are you? Good. How are you, beautiful? So good. Thank you so much for taking time today to do this with me. I'm so excited. I am so excited to be with you. Thank you for having me. Your life is such an amazing adventure.

Oh, my God. You're so cool. I love what you're doing. I feel like at times I'm like, I just want to go crawl into bed and sleep for like a year. And then other times I'm like, yeah, let's go. What's next? Right. Come on. Speed it up.

Right. But mostly like, yeah, a little chill out time is good. As soon as it slows down, I want it to speed up. As soon as it speeds up, I want it to slow down. It's, we all know how that works. I know. I know. But there's those rare moments where you're like, ah, just right.

Yes, yes, very rare. Today I was doing, I think it's called kundalini yoga. Uh-huh. I've never known that before, and it was quite the experience because I'm like, I'm feeling so many different things. Like I, and then I tried to do it to like have clarity and be like, okay, let's get out all these emotions that I sure did. Like in the first, I think 10 minutes of it, I had cried, laughed and felt anger in 10 minutes. And I was like, this is fascinating. And this is yoga?

and I'm getting a workout? What? Good for you. Then it works. It's working for you. I'm telling you. I'm on a spiritual journey this year and I'm already here. Oh, good. Wow. And I feel like drinks are such a big part of that too because first of all, I saw a meme somewhere. I'm sure you've seen it where it says like, so are we all just going to ignore the fact that we slip into like coma and hallucinate and wake up with amnesia and pretend nothing ever happened. Like, where do we do? Oh, exactly.

Exactly. Let's just pretend that never happened. Moving on. All right, what's on the news? What's going on? Yeah. We numb ourselves from all these intrusive thoughts. But dreams are just so fascinating to me.

And I was just talking to my sister a few weeks ago about this actually on the podcast. And we had so many questions. So I was like, well, why don't I just bring on a dream expert? That's part of the beauty of podcasting is if I have questions. I just bring on an expert and get them answered. Is it a great? Oh, God. I started off doing dream work with my sister without knowing it was dream work and knowing that there was anything fancy to it. It just seemed like something so natural. So we were showing up in each other's dreams and reporting on having the very same dreams. And I found there was a few times while I was in

junior high school and high school relationships were really rocky for me. And I noticed that I would, when there was something difficult going on, I would have precognitive dreams that would give me an advantage of what not to do, what not to say, where not to go, and like who to trust, who not to trust and what was going on. I knew that my boyfriend was cheating on me because I saw it in my dream. So my dreams were just an important navigational tool. And that was just personal. I don't think there was anything to it. I thought everybody is doing the same thing. This is no big deal. But it wasn't until about, I've been. doing this professionally now for about 25 years. So there was this, there was a gap of a few years when I was in Hollywood pursuing acting that I wasn't paying attention to dreams. And I kind of went, I don't need those. That's nothing. And I then I felt like I lost connection to my most vital sense of self, like my soul. I felt like I became the world class people pleaser but forgot all about what was going on in here. So when I kind of got that back after

therapy and the spiritual path that I found myself on, I thought I'm never letting go of these again. And that's your career and you're writing books. It's everything. It's everything. I think when we take a step towards the dreams, they take a hundred steps toward us. So why would I stop? Because it's such a source of insight. It's such an amazing thing. I have so many questions about it being a source of insight. Like there's so many crazy things that happen in dreams where you're like, how could how could that mean anything or even people who are finding lost ones coming to visit them in dreams? Like, are we hallucinating? Is this real? So yes. I heard that you were at one point interpreting dreams for celebrities. Are you still doing that? Oh yeah. I mean,

I don't, I don't discriminate. I won't turn a celebrity away. I won't turn anybody away. If somebody's interested in dreams, then they bring them. And I'm, yeah. Who is your favorite celebrity to work with for dreams? Oh, oh my God. You know, I don't know if this is my favorite, but this one just, it was really sweet. I don't know if you know Monica Potter. She was nominated for a Golden Globe a few years ago for her role on parenthood. She was in Shakespeare in love, and she's just beautiful. And she was so vulnerable and I just um she had a dream about her and she shared this on camera so this wasn't you know I'm not but I won't talk about anything that's in a private session believe me I'll change people's names but she was not okay so she was nominated for the golden globe and she was really

excited because everyone was saying you're going to win you're going to win for best actress and the night before the golden globes I get the chills as I say this her father who had just passed away came to her in the dream and said honey I'm so proud of you. You have done such an amazing job, but I have to tell you, you're not going to win. And it's going to be okay. And she was like, oh, no, I'm like, yay, I'm seeing my dad, but oh, no, I'm not going to win. So she got to cry, got to mourn. So by the time she actually showed up at the Golden Globes, she was able to be fully present without any pressure, no expectation. And when she didn't win, she was genuinely excited for the person who did. She said it made such a huge difference

to have that little bit of insight right before. So she could actually enjoy being nominated, which is a huge thing. So I thought that was really sweet. It kind of combines precognitive dreaming with dreaming with our ancestors, our departed loved ones, and getting a real practical piece of advice that was usable immediately. Yeah, that's where I'm like, how do you decipher when it's a dream that is a premonition or someone that's coming to and it's true? or it's just a bonkers dream that you're like, where did that come from?

Like, how are you able to tell if it's real or not? That is the ultimate question. It's the ultimate question because there isn't an exact answer except when our waking reality reflects what happened in our dream and we say, oh, my God. But I would say that if we all paid attention to our dreams, we all have certain clues, like certain recurring themes that tell us, oh, this is precognitive. Like some people, there's some strange, like there's a friend of mine who survived breast cancer three times. And each time she went without any, she had her mammogram and everything

was clear. But this monk, this Franciscan monk would show up in her dream and pointed her breast and say, you've got to explore there. And every time this monk shows up, she's like, no, no, no, not you, not you. Oh my God, I had a clear mammogram. He's like, go back in. And each time they found cancer, we're able to do preventative surgery and remove it. And she's alive today because of that. Holy. So sometimes we have like a character that shows up or we find ourselves in a movie theater or or there's a certain energy or feeling. And then we know, oh my God, this is that precognitive thing. There's a certain energy about those dreams that are a little bit different. And of course, we never know exactly until something reflects that in our waking life.

Yeah, that's true. I guess you really don't know until it happens. which is, it's scary and exciting. But I mean, I dream so vividly. I know some people say they don't remember their dreams or they claim they don't have them, which I know is not true. But I dream very vividly. I always call it a production. I could be in a grocery store and, like, it will be like shelves of stuff where I could walk up and be like, what is my brain doing? And I'm very aware I'm dreaming a lot of the times.

Or it's like a musical and I can like see costumes and production. and like orchestras, like, it's really, really detailed. And I remember a lot of them. What makes a person dream vividly or not remember or do we even know? Oh, well, yeah. I mean, there's, so I would say we all have vivid dreams every night, three to nine of them. It's just the way, it's the nature of dreams to be vivid. It's the visual cortex that's working. That's the primary place that's stimulated while we're dreaming. So we all tend to have them. The issue isn't whether or not we have them. It's whether or not we remember them. So remembering them is something that some people are naturally gifted at, but everybody can

practice at it and get pretty good at it. I mean, just like everybody can sing a little. Not everybody's going to be like, you know, Mariah Carey or hit those notes, but we can all sing sort of. It's like Will Ferrell said in the movie Elf, everybody can sing. It's like talking, but with a little something. So it's like, So dream work is like that. We can all pay attention to dreams. We just have to make sure to get up first thing very gently in the morning and have the very first thing we do be focused on our dreams and recording them. If we do anything else, if we want to get on the phone, if we want to look at our to do list or social media, the dreams will be gone.

So we just have to give it priority first thing before meditation, before yoga, that, you know, we can do our dreams first. Otherwise, they're gone. that's what I have to do. So when I wake up, if I don't remember my dreams, I start just giving myself, I'll be like eating, drinking, laughing, crying, other people, relationships. I'll like go through categories in my head to spark a dream. Interesting. That's really good. I love that you're so dream-centric because, I mean, I think the people that are doing some of the coolest stuff, they're doing the most creative work are people that pay attention to dreams. I mean, Avatar, the second Avatar just came out and all of that. came to James Cameron in a dream. I mean, he almost didn't have to do any work writing the script. It was all there as a result. So creative people are really doing that. But I say to people that wake up and say, I just don't remember dreams. I tell them to do this. We're always thinking something. There's never a moment. I mean, we know when we try to meditate, it's like, ah, there's so much noise there. We are always thinking something, including first thing in the morning.

So if we wake up and we don't have any dream recall, we can at least write down what we were thinking about first thing in the morning because often it will be related to what we were dreaming about. And if we get in the habit of simply writing something down first thing in the morning when we wake up within a week or so or less, that thing that we write down will actually be dream content. And then that just starts to build a muscle and pretty soon it starts to become natural, organic. And do you think all of our dreams are trying to tell us something? Are they uncovering things? Like, is every dream mean something? I think so. I mean, there's definitely the big technical or emotional dreams that seemed like there's just more effort being put into those productions to get more of our attention.

But there's been so many little teeny random snippet dreams that I've had and that my clients have had. had that have been life changers that I have to think that our dream time is not wasted, not one second of it is just like, oops, oh, that was random, just some static, just a commercial interruption. Nope, it's all, there's something brilliant going on behind the scenes, even if it's a small dream, even if it's not a big production. Yeah, I mean, there's just, where the heck do we go? Because we really do hallucinate when we dream and it feels so real and we're there.

and sometimes we realize we're dreaming, but do we actually go into like another dimension or like what actually is a dream? I don't know if that's a load of question. You ask such great questions, Caitlin. Oh my God, you're more than just the Bachelorette. You are a deep metaphysical chick. I love you.

It's great. Like, where do we go when we freaking dream? It might sound strange and some people might not like this answer, but in some way I think it's very similar and related to where we go when we die. I've had a death experience. And as a dream person, I was, yeah.

And I was like, this is not that different than some of the dimensions we access in dreaming. Like, oh, that's interesting. I mean, it's just, it's like, I think, I was telling somebody yesterday, they got in a really upsetting time with their, they broke up with their boyfriend and really upset. and I was talking to them about how basically, I mean, I gave, I gave permission. I practiced my Ogle method, which we could talk about later. It's in my book. Oh, yes, I've got that in my notes.

But I was telling her, you know, the part of you that is hurting right now, the ego that is like just feeling stupid for having loved somebody that isn't loving you back right now. As much as that is legit and absolutely valid, it represents about 0.001% of the total. being that you are. So who we are in these flesh and bone bodies and these egos and our social media and our lives is like 0.001% of who we really are. There's moments like in yoga or in meditation that we all glimpse being connected to something bigger. Whenever we fall in love, when our heart cracks open, we all of a sudden start to feel like this depth that shows up. it's like we are we are infinite beings we are truly there is we've never been born we can never die there's there's layers and layers and layers it's not i don't even necessarily believe in

past lives so much as simultaneous lives like multiple versions of them so who are we where do we go i think where we go in our dreams is somewhere other than our ordinary conscious reality Our ordinary conscious reality is lovely, but it's covered by our conscious mind. Our subconscious mind is like, oh, my God, let's dream. Let's go open the floodgates and go and experience deeper wisdom, deeper compassion, more entertainment. And there's just so many things. Why does my subconscious want to be best friends with Justin Bieber? I love you.

Okay. If I was an alien, describe Justin Bieber in three words. Oh, gosh. Troubled, I feel like I can help him, talented, and misunderstood. Ooh, talented or troubled. I can help him talented and misunderstood. Yeah. So what happens in the dream? Are you hanging out? Are you trying to fix him? Are you? Yeah, it's nothing romantic. It's like, it's like I'm his rock. Like he can only confide in me. He can open up to me and talk about real things. and I make him feel like he's not a celebrity, like I actually see him for who he is. Okay. Well, if this were my dream, and I've had a dream similar to this, not about Justin Bieber, but about other celebrities where I'm helping them, like I'm trying to support them.

And it's, from my perspective, it's, it's part, there's, there's several things happening. Part of it is I believe that there's actually some like pre-paving of a next iteration of this is what I'm seeing, at least for you, that you're not just this celebrity, you're not just a podcaster, but you're also kind of a healer because you're bringing in things, you're bringing in modalities, whatever you have questions about your learning, and then you give it. You've got a helpful, loving soul that wants to do good. So maybe that will become something more of what you're going to be doing. Like, I think our dreams never tell us what we already know. They're always giving us something next. So it feels like that may be a really love.

lovely path for you to continue to follow, and that's infinite. And so it's like, while you're getting better, everyone else gets better along the way. What a powerful purpose. I do feel like that's my like energy healer and this yoga teacher. They all keep saying that I'm entering a fifth dimension where I actually am like finding my purpose in life. And I do want to like help heal and be a light and help others. Like that's, I really feel like that's this path I'm on right now. And what could be a cooler path? I mean, it's like Maslow's hierarchy of, you know, it's like the top of the, of that pyramid is contribution. I mean, there's like safety and security and love and connection and all of that. But the top is contribution. It's making a difference in other people's lives. Like that's a life that is juicy. And so there's some part, I believe, if your dream, if it were mine, is preparing you for that. But I would also look at it from the perspective. And I do this with every. everything. Carl Jung, the late great father of psychotherapy, said that we should look at everyone and everything in our dreams as an aspect of ourselves. So I would say, how is this higher,

wiser, Caitlin aspect of myself trying to heal this more troubled, talented, misunderstood part of me? I mean, is there any part of you that relates to that feeling of having been misunderstood, clearly talented and and having troubles that you needed some support with. Yeah. And I even like, I had the most vivid dream about going on The Bachelor years before I even went on it. And it was very vivid. And I remember the date and I remember the feeling. I remember being in interview rooms that I didn't even know existed until I was on the show.

And I was like, I've been here before. Like it's, it's crazy. So my dreams like that were that vivid. but the Justin Bieber ones are like, too, where I'm like, like, my fiance always laughs at me. It's like, did you dream about your bestie again last night? Because I'm like, he's, I have so many connections to him too, like on the, like through friends. And he's seen my Instagram DMs before where I'm like, is the next step like I actually might be it someone, a rock for Justin Bieber? I don't know.

That's so sweet. Well, he, I mean, it seems like it's just that's going to happen where you guys hang out. And I bet you it is. And if it isn't him. at somebody like him with a similar archetype that maybe, you know, might be somebody else that, you know, another actor, that, actor, performer, singer that needs your help. All right. We all know how passionate I am about this next sponsor.

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Awesome. And Justin Bieber actually did the same program. And I'm doing the program. And I'm just like, it's again another part of my healing journey that I'm on. And I'm so excited because I think that will, I wonder after coming out of this program will my dreams change. I'm sure they will. No, our dreams are always reflecting the changes that we're in. And I think it's such smart work to do the inner child.

I mean, some people might be like, oh, come on, you don't need that. But really, it's like the child in us runs the show. And if we take care of her, then she's like, okay, I trust you. Then I'm not going to have to fight with you or argue with you or sabotage you. if you give me some space. I mean, it's really big. I'm not saying that it's a child who leads us to heaven. No, I know what I mean.

It's a big deal. So good for you. And who knows, you may end up being like the healer. You know, I mean, you already are on that path. That may be like propelling you even deeper. I don't know. It's so crazy how many people have like told me that that is the kind of work that would like fill my soul,

which is so fascinated to me because it really does make me so happy. I just feel like I don't have the knowledge yet or like the words even to say to people. You know what I mean? Like I don't have the vocabulary of a healer. I just like know how I actually feel. And I always want to explain that to people or help people through. But I'm like, I need to learn more about myself first, even, just to kind of gain that knowledge to be able to share the light that I learn about. Yeah.

Yeah, yeah. Well, that's what you do. I mean, you have a natural gift that can't be taught. It's your intuition. But then it's like, yes, there are some modalities to learn about. I have the dream work practitioner training program that I teach people. It's like a so that people that are naturally gifted. It's just nice to know what some of the vernacular is and some of the histories. Oh, I should do that. Hey, I'll hook you up. I know somebody. Oh, yeah. That's good. And anybody can do this. Oh, yeah. Absolutely. Where can they find that? Do you have the website? Is it on your website? I do. I do. It's on my, my website, Kelly Sullivan Walden.com. And if you just put a forward slash dream work, then that takes you to dream work practitioner training. Oh, okay. We'll put that in our show notes for this show as well. Awesome. I have another question. I have many, many more questions. But my sister and this obviously nowadays, I feel like a lot of us get our information from TikTok, which could be really beautiful and really dangerous at the same time. My sister said that while you're in a dream, if you realize you're dreaming and you ask people in your dream, like, what day is it or what time is it? My sister told me that people in your dreams will say, we don't talk about that here. We can't answer that question. Is that true?

I think it depends on who you talk to. There's, I haven't exactly had that level of lucidity. I mean, this is lucid dreaming. And lucid dreaming is, pooh, is really, many ways it's where it's at because that's where we really get to expand the borders of consciousness. A friend of mine who is a big, big, big, big lucid dreamer, Robert Wagoner, he, he often, the first thing he'll do, or at least he used to, he would ask the people, do you have a reality outside of this dream or are you just here for the sake of the dream? And some of them would say, oh, no, I have a whole reality. I'm married with children. They go to school. I have a job. And he's like, what? Like, what? And then some of them are like, nope.

I'm just here for your dream. I'm just here for that. And so he got so wild. He was really curious about the people, but then he started to realize that's not really the question to ask. The question that propels the dream forward is to almost like imagine that you're moving past the curtain. You're going backstage and you're yelling up to the projectionist who is God or the dream maker. And you're saying, what do you want me to know here? Just show me. Like write it on the wall. make it clear and then there will be some kind of announcement somebody will walk in and give you a letter or give you a scroll or send you a text or and then you say then after you've received that you ask the next question now what do you want me to know and he said there's this progression of wisdom that will keep coming and it's like we're getting right to the answer and kind of cutting out the middleman cutting out all the rasmataz and just getting right to what is the dream trying to tell me right and we can we can do that so yeah your sister is definitely on to something.

I've been ever, ever since she told me that, like, as soon as I'm like right in the phase where I'm about to fall asleep, I'm like, okay, don't forget to ask somebody where you are and what time it is, what day is the week it is. Yeah, yeah. Because I feel like you can, like, well, I was actually going to ask you if you can ask loved ones or people who have passed to visit you in dreams. And because I feel like I've had so many dreams where people that have passed have visited me. and I always want to say, like, I always wonder if that's my subconscious, like I said earlier, or if, well, of course it is. But if it's actually them coming to visit or give a message or if it's just me wanting to see them. But can you ask them to come visit you in your dreams? You are asking such great questions. Because this is the stuff people want to know about. And I believe that it is, it's both. It's, I mean, I think it's important to look at dreams literally, like as if it was an actual visitation and actual happening. And, and,

And nothing, like our bodies, the somatic body that we are in knows what's true or not. Like if it feels true, then consider, if the body feels enlivened, then consider that the answer is yes. I would think, I say more than, more often than not, visitation dreams of somebody beloved is like an actual encounter. It's not just something to be interpreted, but we can do both. We can ask ourselves, for example, if it's a grandmother, for example, We could say, maybe is this the grandmother part of myself that's also trying to give me a message. So I always think it doesn't hurt to be both literal and metaphorical and look at dreams from both lenses so that we get both sides of the coin no matter what. That's true.

I like that. And we can incubate these dreams. If people aren't having them and they're jealous and they want to have them, there's a way to be able to actually incubate the dreams so that you'll have more of them. Is there a way through your practice or through dreaming? I know a lot of people, actually I was just talking to one of my girlfriends that has had this reoccurring dream about her ex that she is so moved on. She is married with kids, but this ex keeps coming into her dreams and like haunts her and has these reoccurring dreams about him and what he used to do to her. And she's like, I've moved on. How is this part of my brain not healed from it?

And I'm wondering if there is like a way through your practice or through any way. to heal that part of you? Or is that just therapy? Well, I think dreams are therapy on steroids and are paying attention to them helps to move the needle. I'll just say, I can relate to this from personal experience and I know how annoying it is to say, I am over this person. I have moved on. Why are they showing up in my dream? If this person showed up today on a white horse with diamonds. I would be like, no, I'm not into you. We're done. Go away. So why is he showing up in the dream? Why, why, why? It's a really important question. And one of the reasons and one of the things that I've done, because that keeps the head kept happening to me. And I'm like,

Dr. Dream heal myself. One thing I realize is that kind of going back to the inner child, when we love somebody, when we're in a relationship with somebody and we get really intimate and vulnerable with them, there's this part of us that they have access to that is really, really, really vulnerable and really deep. And when that part of us gets hurt, it doesn't just heal so quickly. I mean, we might put on a nice mask. We might move on, but there's always some little, it takes a while for that little part to repair itself. And it's almost like from a shamanic perspective, they say that whenever there is any trauma, there's this phenomenon of soul loss. And it doesn't mean that the soul is gone forever. It just means that there's a part of us

that is sort of frozen in time back there. And our dreams, the job of our dreams is to get ourselves back online now in this present time. So it goes back to the scene of the crime and it replays those same things that happened in order for us to figure out how to recapture that part that got loss. So we can reclaim that vital energy and incorporate it back into our soul. And then we're done. So it's kind of like to look at those dreams as like a raw shock test, like each one, we probably are getting a little bit better, a little less dramatic, a little less attached. At least that's what I'm discovering in my dream. Yeah. Yeah. It's, I mean, part of it might even just be time because it might be wounds deep trapped inside of you that you don't

even feel as much anymore, but they're still somehow trapped and come through in your dreams. Yes, exactly, exactly. And one thing we can do to speed the process up, and this works for any nightmare, even this, even like a recurring nightmare, I mean a recurring dream about an ex, is in our waking life, when we're awake, talking about the dream, we can go into our journal or talk to a friend and say, if I was back in that dream and I was lucid, and I was totally aware that I was dreaming, and I could do anything I wanted. what would I do to get me back into a power position in this dream? What I, like, for example, with my ex, in my imagination, instead of rejecting me, because

that's why it hurts so bad, is because he broke up with me. And I'm like, nobody breaks up with me. Oh, my God. So in my dream, I'm imagining, in my imagination, reconnected to the dream, that he comes back. And he's like, I'm so sorry. I screwed up. I made the biggest mistake. I really love you and value you. It wasn't you. Like I want him just like he says all the things until I'm like, okay. All right, we're good. And then because our imagination is connected to the dream in some way we are closing the loop on that dream and finishing it, giving us the medicine and our heart that we're wishing that person would give us. We give it to ourselves by reimagining the ending of that dream. And there is research done at Harvard on this. They call it. imagery, rehearsal therapy, and it's one of the ways to change or stop a recurring dream

and actually complete it. So we can move on to other things. Completing dreams. Yeah, that's a crazy concept because, I mean, I've talked about this on my podcast before where I had an X that I could not get over for so long. And again, every dream was him just saying he wanted to get back together. And I'd wake up thinking it was happening and it wasn't. And it was like I was feeling heartbreak all over again because my dreams were so real. And I'd wake up from just being so sad and my therapist actually made me sit in a chair and face an empty chair pretending it was him. Then I would sit in his position and to talk to me as him. And that actually did. And again, I've said it on my podcast before that actually did shift something in my brain

that stopped the dreams. Yeah, because there is like a loop. There's a habitual loop that we go into that is that pain cycle. And it's not trying to torture us. It's just it keeps showing us like X marks the spot, X marks the spot, like where the pain is, so that we can go back in and change the story ever so slightly. And I think some of, we think that it's cheating. Like, we can't just, I mean, that didn't actually happen. So we can't just tell ourselves that he does love me and he is sorry. But it isn't cheating because on a soul level, it's very likely that those are the very things that he would have said to you or he would have done. And so we are just going beyond the physical. yeah beyond the ego to the place because again back to the beginning of who our bodies are

is just 0.001% of who we really are who we are mostly a spirit and so is that ex-boyfriend so we can come in with their spirit get everything said that we need to hear and then we can be like okay I'm at peace moving on reoccurring dreams are just so bizarre because you're I was Googling like the most common reoccurring dreams and then I'm like why do we all have the same reoccurring dreams? Why am I also having the dream where I'm back in school and I can't figure out my locker code or a dream where my teeth are falling out or a dream where I'm falling or a dream where I can't remember my dance shoes and my dance choreography looking for a toilet? Like what? It's we're all having similar reoccurring dreams. Why is that? It is such an

interesting thing because we are so unique and yet. So what I think is happening, here's my mythology. I believe we're all a bunch of angels. We're a bunch of angels. We're not from here. We're from this heavenly realm. And we decided to incarnate on earth because we thought, wow, this is going to be a really cool playground. We can learn so much. It's going to be hard, but we can do it. How else are we going to learn these things? So, yay, let's do it. And then we get here and we're like, oh my God, this is really hard. And then we have amnesia. We forget where we came from and we're trying to figure it out. And it's really important to survive and our human brains are coded for survival. So it makes sense that our subconscious mind would play out

these scenarios where we're having a difficult time surviving or fitting in or making the grade, which is why school dreams show up so much because that was one of the, it's like the first cut is the deepest. Most of our first cuts happened at school where we had. No clue. How to fit in, what to wear, whatever. We're doing it all wrong. And we get slammed, slam, slam. So trying to figure out the combination, trying to pass the test.

It's all so much about being socialized. Remember, we're these massive angelic beings that are incarnating in these teeny, tiny little bodies trying to fit in. And we forget that we're these angels. So we're bobbling around, screwing up. And these dreams are trying to help us figure out how to stay here on this planet, how to make our way in this social jungle called life. So I think that's why we have similar dreams like that and why school dreams, for example, are so important

and they show up so frequently for us. That's so true when you say like, you're such, I always use the word fragile, but you're so fragile in that time of your life that it's probably like, again, the inner child coming out in your dreams and the fears and all the stuff that you haven't healed yet. Oh, my God.

It's crazy. Little babies. I mean, we're just so, like, wide open. I remember, I mean, I'm a good dancer. I danced. Dancing was a big thing. But my first school dance, I still remember a boy asked me to dance. And I was like, 11. And I'm like, uh, like, and I looked over and all these people were laughing at me. And I'm like, oh, oh, my God. Okay, I'm going to have to, I'm going to watch videos. I'm going to figure it out. Like, that's never going to happen to me again. So of course, that that really scarred me. Because I, I I was clueless and just trying to figure it out. And it was like we get smacked in the social arena. When we do any little thing that is slightly bigger or worse or more colorful or not colorful enough, we don't fit in, we get whacked. And then we dream about how to figure it out so that doesn't happen. So we can stay on this planet to learn the lessons we came here to learn. Okay.

When you've got a lot going on, it can be really hard to find time or motivation for a workout. I know I've been there a million times before, but Peloton has really motivated me to get it in however and whenever I can. You guys already know how I feel about Peloton. It's my pave. So I've had their bike for a while now, take classes on the app. But the Peloton row brand new to me. I went to their showroom in Nashville. I need to get this row or immediately. I should have asked for it for Christmas. Maybe I'll just get it myself. Merry Christmas, Caitlin. You guys, I'm serious when I say I actually had fun working out and feel like I got in a brand new type of workout for me. full body. Peloton is bringing motivation and energy to rowing like never before with a variety of rowing workouts on and off the row and all new world class instructors who will help you get in a great workout while having fun no matter what your experience level is. And rowing is no joke. You can work on 86% of your muscles in only 15 minutes and get all your cardio and strength in one shot. The technology was really cool when I tried it in the showroom. It helped me get into

it the right way and they have this form assist while working out. so it's like a breakdown of what you're doing right and wrong and it'll help give you the proper form and the breakdown is at the end so you can go even harder next time. Right now is the perfect time to get rowing with Peloton Row and we can promise you've never rowed like this before. Peloton Row offers a variety of classes for all levels and game-changing features that will help you get rowing or advance what you already can do. Explore Peloton Row and financing options at onepellaton.com slash row. How do our dreams reveal our most authentic selves?

Oh, well, I think that is a great question. And one perspective I love is that like if you talk to somebody in a social setting, you say, hey, how are you? And they say, oh, I'm fine. Don't believe them. Like, there's so much more going on. Our ego lies. Our ego lies.

And it's okay that it lies. That's its job. Its job is to make us look good. But our dreams don't lie. Our dreams don't know how to lie. Our dreams are just on a platter revealing what's going on beneath the surface. This is why dream sharing with people is so intimate. Like it's a way like at a party, for example, somebody will ask me what I do and I'll tell them I'm Dr. Dream and I work on dreams and they'll tell me a dream. I'll tell them one of mine. And immediately it's like we're best friends like we've known each other for 5,000 years because all of a sudden all the masks all the all the pretense is just gone there's no business cards it's like dreams are so democratic because they're they're so authentic they're only authentic just like a baby baby doesn't know how to be inauthentic neither do our dreams they're always legit and authentic and authentic And authentic. That's so true. And I know we were talking about lucid dreaming. And I know, like, for example, sometimes when I'm in a dream, I will force things to happen. Because I'm like, I know I'm dreaming. I'm going to do this. What are your thoughts on controlling dreams? Like, is it good or are you like messing with the process? Like, should you just allow what's meant to? No, it's good to do that. Okay. Well, I mean, I think it's very special when you have that awareness. And it's not possible to do it. in every dream all night long because you can't. It's physically impossible to be always lucid in

every dream. So the dreams that you are lucid in, I think it's a wonderful experiment. It's a very safe laboratory to experiment with the boundaries of who you are and what you're capable of and like the things that you can't do in this reality. Otherwise, you might get arrested. Like try it out there. Yeah. See what you can do. It's like. wow, I can have multiple lovers and no one's going to get jealous or mad. It's all safe. No harm. No foul. I can steal all that money. I can have all the fame. I can do whatever, like scratch all the itches and then see where it leads. I think it's a way to progress our consciousness rapidly. It's a quantum leap every time there's a lucid dream. It's a good for you. All of a sudden, everyone's just like trying to nap and sleep all the time just to like have more fun in their life. Right. No, it's so True. Oh, my God. It's very true. It's not just about having the lucid dream and having any dream. It's about remembering them and bringing them back because it's important to close that loop. I was just talking to somebody last night that said something like there's all these spirit guides and there's certain ones that are assigned to us that if we want to have the really cool spirit guides work with us, then we have to live really cool lives. We need to have an exciting life. Otherwise, the only spirit guides that come in are the ones that are assigned to us because they have to. So when we participate in our dreams and when we take some of that content and activated in our waking lives, that I think the really big time spirit guides that know how to have fun, they're like, I want to hang out with her.

Oh, let's party. Let's do this. So it's not just having the dreams. It's also carrying over some of that magic and activating it in some way in our waking dream. It does feel like magic when you dream. It's so crazy. You have written many books, but you just came out with a new one called A Crisis is a Terrible Thing to Waste, The Art of Transforming the Tragic into Magic, which I have it on my nightside table. And I'm like, again, I'm such a good sleeper most times that I'm like trying to open a book and I'm asleep in like two seconds, even if it's the craziest book ever.

But I also think that's just because my schedule right now is so hectic because I'm about to go away on this retreat that I'm like, get out. My plate is full with all these things. But I can't, I can't wait to read. It's going to come with me on the plane. But I wanted you to tell my listeners a little bit about this one and what kind of stories you share in the book. Oh, my God. Okay. Thank you. So I've written 10 books and all of my books thus far have been written from what I would say, the mountaintop place, that place of clarity, aha, wisdom. Like, this is. the best I know about dreams and all that stuff. So I'm super proud of all the books I've written. But this one is a little bit of a different detour. It's muddier. It's kind of like from the mud to the

mountaintop. These are some of the things that are really like every story is an embarrassment, is like a story of like me totally radically screwing up, doing something like, I mean, some of it is me screwing up, but like in the introduction to the book, I talk about, like, here's all the things that happened to me. I've, I've shoplifted when I was younger. I've had eating disorders. I stripped for a year. I've done, I've, I've been chased. I've been conned. I've been, like, all these, I've been attacked by massive bull mastiff dogs. I've been, like, I jumped off a cliff. I've had a near death experience. Like I, all these things that were mostly, like stories that I had some shame around that if somebody would bring them up or whatever,

I'd like totally blush and be like, let's change the subject. Let's talk about my brilliance. I'm telling you about how smart I am. But I found that in my own practicing what I preach, which is to embrace, to have a no shadow left behind policy, to look at every part of us, everything that we're ashamed of, everything that we think is so awful or embarrassing, like to take each of them systematically. And so what I've done is I just wrote about them. I wrote about the stories.

And then I didn't stop just at the end of the story. It's like, now, what did I learn from this? And how did I turn it into wisdom? And I realized the things that I'm, the wisdom that I have, if I have any wisdom at all, it comes directly from the places where I completely fell apart, where I completely had my heartbroken where things didn't work out. And then I had to find my way. And I have this process that I call Ogle, O-G-L-E, that's kind of like in a nutshell, all the transformational tools I've ever learned, I kind of amalgamized it into this little packet, this little process that I say

does it for me and it does it for my clients, helps to transform the tragic into magic. Yeah. Can you explain Ogle a little bit and what the method means? Yes, yes. So we could say when I was younger, I was when I was like, especially the most humiliating awfulest time was when I was when I was a stripper for a year. It was like the time that I stripped off my, I had been a good Catholic girl and it was like not what I was going to do, but I got led into this path. There was kind of a manipulative producer that conned me into it. Oh, I'm still blushing. Okay. This is a safe place. Oh, my God. So when I was young, especially then, I was ogled. I mean, like to ogle is to look at someone sort of in a like kind of a pervy, lecherous way. And what I discovered is now that it's all these years later, I'm turning the tables and not from a lecherous perspective, but from a really inquisitive place to ogle. means from my perspective is to really look at something. For example, like one way to not transform our difficulties is to not really look at it, to just say, that was bad, that whole year of my life, that whole decade of my life, that was just embarrassing. Let's not talk about it. But to look at it,

to really look at each thing that happened and to find the gold in it is to transform it and to make it into something beautiful. So OGLE stands for what to do in a difficult situation. So let's just talk about that ex-boyfriend of mine, for example, the one that keeps showing up in my dreams all these years later. So the O stands for what's offensive. So this is what you do. You practice this if you're ever upset about something, hurt or embarrassed, whatever, anything that's less than happy, less than peaceful. So when it comes to that ex-boyfriend, for example, what was offensive is that he broke up with me. I didn't see it come in.

It broke my heart. It shattered my faith. It made me question my own validity and whether I would ever have love. So we need permission to moan and groan and cry and just give ourselves a little bit of time in victim mode. It's okay to have at least a little bit of time. And then after we're done, like if we feel like we're in victim mode, we're done, we're ready to move on to the next thing. The G is what we do next. the g stands for what's good about this or what might be good about this or what could be good

about this so for example what i did eventually i didn't do it in real time i teach people how to do ogle in real time but sometimes hindsight is is our friends that the g stands for what's good about it in this situation i could say well what if what if there's somebody out there who's better for me than this guy right what if somebody who might leave me i don't want them anyway so I'd rather have him leave early and then take up all my time like that that guy Greg Barron who said and he's just not that into you don't waste the pretty like so maybe it's good that he left me because at least my dance card is open for me to love myself and then maybe attract somebody better and hello I've been married now for 20 years and to somebody who adores me and won't leave me even when I push him away I love that and then the L is for the looking glass and this is where the transformation really starts to kick in. It's where we look at ourselves and ask the question, how do I do, even if it's just in the tiniest bit, how do I do the same thing that this person did to me? How do I do that same offensive thing? So I could say, where do I, where does

Kelly reject Kelly? Where am I my worst critic? Where have I abandoned me? Where did I make myself and think, tell myself I'm undesirable because there's one human out there that doesn't want to be with me. Oh my God. I'm the, I'm the bigger rejecter. I'm the one that keeps breaking up with me. Yeah. Ooh. And then that, so that's kind of a bitter pill to swallow because we don't want to think that we do that to ourselves, but that's also the good news because that brings us to the E. The E is for elevate. Now that we know all this information, what's the tiniest little step we can take in an upward movement to step up our game a little bit. So in my case, it's for me to not abandon me, for me to love me, for me to, even if the whole world says, Kelly, you're a big ho.

We hate you. Your book sucks. And oh, my God, die. Like if, and I've had social media, people have said that. Oh, yeah. I believe it. Yeah. It's like if the whole world does that, as long as I don't do that to me. If I keep loving myself and back to that little girl, the inner child, then I'm okay and I'll come through it. And so that's, that's the ogle process. What's offensive, what's good about it, looking glass, and then how do we elevate? Wow, I love that because you can use that in so many different situations or scenarios in life. Again, like you said, anything below happy, you can use that. And I love that. Yeah. And I think I would have right in my mirror. Oh, good. Ogle yourself, like ogling, ogling is next to godliness. If we spell, turn it around, the letters a little bit.

But the goal, if I was going to write a part two to this book, it would be about ogling in real time as it's happening. As we're in the storm, as we're being, if we're being broken up with, as the bleep is hitting the fan, like in those moments, can we have that like so that we can transform it in a moment so that we, in my death experience, that's the thing that I took from that was no matter what's happening, we could, if we were truly lucid, truly awake, nothing would ruffle us. We would be at peace no matter what is happening because we are connected to all the love in this universe. What's the problem? Right. What are we doing?

Do you talk about your near-death experience in the book? I do. Yeah. It's one of my, it's one of the first. stories in there because what could be more offensive than dying, you know, than having like, I mean, I mean, I loved the experience personally. So it was a little bit tricky because I was like, what's the big deal, you guys? It was amazing. You should all do it. Oh, wait. No, no. No, no. No, no. So what you felt like you were in a dream? Like you were, I have so many questions about that,

but that could be a whole other podcast. Yeah, yeah. We could we could unpack it. Well, I'd say just for now, the relationship to a near-death experience and dreaming is that I tapped into, like, in some of the best dreams I've ever had of like swimming with dolphins, hanging out with Jesus, like winning the lottery, flying. If I added all those dreams up and put them all in one and then magnified that times a hundred thousand, that's what it was like to be on the other side. Wow. So it's connected because it was it was liberating. I literally felt this like it's a funny word to say. But the, the biggest first feeling I felt was relief. Like, oh my God, all that heaviness. Like I didn't, and I'm a happy person. I'm not walking around feeling heavy. But compared to where I went and to what I felt. And I believe this is just, it was just me being in my spirit. the ego, minus the body. It was such a like, oh, my God, this is amazing. Like euphoric. Yeah.

And it wasn't different than what I've dreamt before or what I've tapped into in meditation, but it was just turned up, like turned way up and for a way longer period of time. Like it was stabilized for a long time. And I was able to ask questions from inside that space. I was able to look at everything, everyone. and get like every answer to every question I've ever had. Wow. Now, how do you explain that to somebody that might be really struggling in life and they

think, well, I would just be better off on the other side? Like, how do you tell that person like, no? Right. Well, here's the thing. Yeah, because please, I don't want anybody to hear this and be like, well, then I'm out. Right. What I want people to know is that from my perspective, when I was on the other, side. I got that glimpse of that piece that passes human understanding. And it's a piece that I have

accessed while I was here. And it was giving me a glimpse of what's like kind of the preview of coming attraction so that I could lose my fear of death because I didn't know it then, but I was about to lose a lot of people. Like my three pets, two of my lifelong best friends. Like so much happened. And I was able to remember, I don't have to grieve for them. They're good. good and when one of these days I'll be there but I desperately wanted to come back because I wanted to there's an opportunity here on earth that is different than anywhere else we could incarnate and it is very special and being here is like winning the lottery and it's not like everybody who wants to come to earth doesn't get to come here like there's not I mean even though

there's almost eight billion of us here there's a lot more souls that are like waiting in for eternity like what am I going to get to go to earth it's kind of like a big ticket item it's it's important the work we do here is very special and yes it's difficult sometimes and yes it is painful sometimes but just like that saying that pain is necessary but the suffering is optional having that awareness of what's on the other side whether it comes from our own personal experience or from hearing other people tell about it, it can reduce the suffering massively. And this Ogle formula to me is also in the category of a suffering reducer. Like, we're going to have pain, but we don't have to suffer. So we can actually enjoy our time while we're here and do what we came

here to do. There would be nothing worse on the other side than to look back with regret and be like, I didn't do it. So I came back because I knew I wasn't done because I had, I wanted to integrate that awareness into this life and then maybe I get to move on but right yeah and that's a beautiful yeah no that's exactly and yeah as long as you can yeah well I just I just again I could have another podcast based on where we go after we die because I'm always so fascinated but I loved talking to you today and I feel like my listeners will love it too and is there anything else that we didn't talk about that you wanted to say about dreams or where people can get your book or Instagram or anything. Well, I first just want to say, Caitlin, you are amazing.

And I am so blessed to get to connect with you. And you are so much more than I would say what some people might misunderstand, like what you said about Justin Bieber, like just being this beautiful young woman, bachelorette who's in the limelight. Like you could be as superficial as anybody, but you are not. You've got the whole package. So I'm, thank you. That's really kind. I really see, I mean, I'm impressed with you and I'm excited about the trajectory that you're on. I think a lot of people are going to grow and glow and be, have a better life because of you. And I just feel really blessed to have connected with you. Thank you. Thank you. I feel the same way about you. Thank you for saying that. That's, that means a lot. That means a lot. Thank you so much. So true. And I guess the book that's coming out, the launch day is January 17th. And a crisis is a terrible thing to waste the art of transforming the tragic into magic. It's out wherever books are sold. The people can go to my website and get there's a bunch of bonus gifts if you buy the book and you want to get $500 worth of bonus gifts at Kelly Sullivanwalden.com forward slash tragic. The number two, magic. Oh, cool. Oh, my gosh. I hope, again, we'll put this. in the show notes so that everyone can go visit your website.

And yeah, you were just an absolute pleasure to talk to you. So thank you so much for your time. I'm Caitlin Bristow. I'll see you next Tuesday. Thanks for listening to this week's episode of Off the Vine. Don't forget to rate, review, and follow on your favorite podcast platform. And we'll see you next Tuesday. Hi, podcast listeners. This is Kelty from the Lady Gang podcast with over 150 million downloads and

about 150 negative reviews on iTunes. You know that people either love us or they hate us and that makes a great show. Lady Gang is a twice weekly podcast where we help you feel less alone in your life with the help of our favorite reality stars and housewives, but mostly me and my two friends, Becca and Jack, talk about the ugly and ridiculous and crazy things that happen in our lady life. come get inspired, come get a virtual podcast hug from us every Tuesday and Thursday, wherever you get your podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever else you listen. See you there.