Off The Vine with Kaitlyn Bristowe - Margaret Josephs | The Truth Behind Leaving Housewives!

Episode Date: July 14, 2026

#962. Margaret Josephs is entering a brand new chapter... and it does not include The Real Housewives of New Jersey.For the first time on Off the Vine, Margaret opens up about her decision to walk away after seven seasons, the behind-the-scenes conversations with Bravo, why she actually went back to film before ultimately deciding to leave for good, and whether she'd ever return.She and Kaitlyn also recap filming Reality Retreat together, share hilarious behind-the-scenes stories from the Dominican Republic, reveal which castmates surprised them the most, and laugh about a few moments they're already nervous to watch back when the show airs.The conversation goes far beyond reality TV as Margaret gets candid about being misunderstood, the lawsuit that changed her multi-million-dollar business, why she joined Housewives in the first place, building new businesses from the ground up, and what's next—including the other television projects she's already working on!It's honest, funny, unfiltered, and packed with behind-the-scenes stories you won't hear anywhere else. Enjoy!If you’re LOVING this podcast, please follow and leave a rating and review below! PLUS, FOLLOW OUR PODCAST INSTAGRAM HERE!Thank you to our Sponsors! Check out these AMAZING deals!Alloy: Get your menopause treatment plan today. Visit myalloy.com and use code VINE for $20 off your first order! #AgeGracefullyPoshmark: Download the Poshmark app today and use code vine when you sign up to get $10 off your first purchase.Apartments.com: The place to find a place!See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

This episode of Off the Vine is brought to you by Alloy. Get your menopause treatment plan today. Visit MyAloid.com and use code Vine for $20 off your first order. Hashtag age gracefully. Poshmark, new deals and styles are listed every day, so don't wait. Download the Poshmark app today and use code Vine when you sign up to get $10 off your first purchase. And Apartments.com, the place to find a place. You're listening to Off the Vine with Caitlin Bristow. Hey everybody, welcome to Off The Vine. I'm your host. Caitlin Bristow and today, okay, I've been wanting to sit down with this guest for a long time,

and the timing feels perfect. You know her as The Marge from the Real Housewives of New Jersey. She's an entrepreneur. She's a designer. She's an author. She's a mocktail mogul. Right now, Margaret is at a very interesting chapter because she recently announced that she is leaving the Real Housewives of New Jersey. I was actually with her. We were filming the show Reality Retreat when she announced this. The show's moving forward without her. She's already filming new things, including something that we actually just did together, like I said. So we're getting into all that today, leaving Jersey. What really made her say, I'm done with the Real Housewives of New Jersey,

what it's been like to be misunderstood on reality TV, her marriage or kids, her mom, her business brain, sorey, design, and tears. And whether the Marge is entering her soft era or if she's still going to say, fuck you, I can be a controlling little bitch, and I don't have to apologize for it. Margaret Joseph, welcome to Off the Vine. I have the clippins in right now that do not match my hair.

It looks good. Whatever is looks like a highlight. Well, it's just two clip-ins because the front pieces of my hair from wearing so many slick-back buns are all broken. So I'm trying to throw them out. I think that's what's going on with me too. Well, you don't flick it back too hard. I don't slick it back too hard, though. I don't slick it back. But this, you know me. I carried all these hair pieces with me. That was my favorite was to go into your room and see because you, I'm such a shitty traveler. Like if I have a topper and if I ever brought mine, I just throw it in a suitcase. Like I'm, you know me. I'm just like, right, put it in. And, yours were all perfectly on little mannequin heads that you traveled with. I know. I traveled with my little wigheads. Yeah. You go in there. It's like all the wig heads. It was amazing. Wait, did I ever see it without the wig? Because your hair's great. No, no, no. It's very choppy. But there I couldn't because it was so humid. You know what it was like. There was crazy. I only packed two big suitcases and two small ones. That was crazy. Because I came with six suitcases. And Kim Zolziak had what, 11? Yeah, but half it was filled with wine. That's so, she had one suitcase that was filled with just. just her own wine that she would drink, which the wine that they had for us was not terrible.

I don't drink, so I wouldn't even know. But it wasn't terrible. But I guess if you're picky about wine. And then she had another suitcase that was just her water. Yes, I know. I mean, I don't think I want to travel with my own beverages and liquids and things. No, no, no. Not that.

Well, she and she lost a bag, I think, of expensive things. Yes, she said someone stole her opus. Someone stole her opus, but also someone stole a whole suitcase. Yes. Remember one didn't even show up. Yeah, it was crazy. That is crazy. I would have a mental breakdown from I lost any of my clothes.

That would push me over the edge. Oh my gosh. Wait, you packed how many? For those who don't know, we were on a show together, which is so funny because I'm like, this is obviously your first time on my podcast. Yes. I love that we're not strangers anymore. And not only are we not strangers, I'm like, you're my sister.

I know. We were so bonded the East Wing. We met and we instantly fell in love. Well, thank God we had that little East Wing because so Marge and I filmed the show in Dominican Republic. I've been talking about it kind of on and off on this podcast. I don't think I've got into like complete detail, but I don't even know what we can or can't say or what. I mean, it's been announced.

It's been announced. So it's not like people. And I think we should talk about it because it's going to be. People have to watch it. Yeah, it's going to be incredible. Fantastic. But when we got to our rooms, everyone was freaking out to get to their rooms because it had to be, you know, the hold and then go get your room. And we're like, well, and I was like, I'm just going to take what, you know, whatever room is meant for me is meant for me.

And then we ended up in the perfect little corner. of the house. Yes. Me, you, Hilaria, and Jen, Tran, also from Bachelor. Bachelor. But you and Hilaria were friends before. Yeah, Hilari and I were friends before. How did you guys know each other?

We met at an, oh, through NBC. Like, she was friends with someone from NBC. Bravo, we went out one night to the townhouse, great gay bar. Got it. We hung out very late at night. We got to be very friendly. Then we'd see each other at events. Yeah.

So we just, like, kind of bonded that way. I was very happily surprised when she was. she was there. I kind of knew, you know, intimately like, you know, just from social media, everybody who they were. Like I knew who you were. Jen Tran obviously knew no one. Yeah, she knew no. She didn't even know who Tori Braxton was. I know. She called Tony Braxton, Tori Braxton, because Tamar was in the house with us. And when she called Tony Braxton, Tori Braxton, I can't wait until everybody sees that. It's incredible because I'm like, even though she's 28, she should still know who Tony Braxton is. I mean,

She lived in the state of New Jersey, and not to be me and she didn't know who I was. She's never watched Jersey Housewives. She didn't know who it was from Bergen County. I was like, Jen, something is wrong with you. She was adorable, the cutest girl ever. See, I'm so excited to watch that back to because, Jen, this is, to me, it's crazy that, have you ever filmed a show where you had to sleep in the same room as somebody? No.

Like sharing a bed, you didn't have to share a bed. I had to share a bed, which is crazy. It was very funny. I mean, I love, you sleep so cute. I love your nightgowns, you wear your sleep mask. You have a whole routine. You have your sheet masks. Well, shockingly, I didn't get sick because the lorria came in like coughing.

She just did the medic every day. She could have had typhoid. And I shared the room there. But we had a beautiful room with the balcony. You know, we took our sweet time getting that room. And we got very lucky. You had a great room. But I have a question.

Because you obviously know how most reality TV shows work. What made you say yes? And is it called the reality retreat? Is it called the retreat? Do we know what our show is called? I think it's called Reality Retreat. Okay, reality retreat. What made you say yes to that one?

Because it was like, it was sort of like, it's different than housewives. It's digging deep. Yeah. It's not as much drama. It's a little bit of a challenge show. Yeah. It's going to be very spa-like. I was like, oh, I could use spa-like.

Yeah. But were you surprised at how much drama ended up happening? I was surprised at how much drama ended up happening. But to me, that drama wasn't as rough as what I'm used to. Yeah. It was minimal. compared to what I was used to. I always, I say this all the time.

I thought it was a joke. I thought you guys were all putting it on for the show. I thought, and then I got into a house with, it was you, Kim, Kenya. Were you the only housewives in there? The three of you? The three of us were the only housewives. Yes.

Which I would, it was more the drama was somewhere else, but I just couldn't believe how yelly it got. I know, I know. I felt good because it was traumatizing. Oh my gosh. To some people.

Not to me. I was like, oh, God. This is nice. Yeah, but you, okay, we're going to get there. I mean, I just want people to watch the show so much because kind of what they said to us and what I love is that you're going to see such a different side to everybody. Yes. And we're so used to seeing, like, we're also pigeonholed into these roles on these shows and like, what is Kenya usually known for? Um, tough, nasty bitch. Like, you know, snarky. I think people think that she's very tough and could be mean. And I think

we definitely see a different side of Kenya. Yes. Yes. Yes. A much deeper side. I think people don't see that vulnerable side of her, which is great. Which she was so vulnerable on this show. Yes, and I really love that. Yes, me too. And I feel like you get misunderstood. Oh, yeah, because I am, listen, I could be sarcastic and tough and I'm very direct. And I think I'm still direct, but people misunderstand that. People take that as like, I could be mean or I'm digging up things. No, I'm perceptive. You're very perceptive.

Yeah, I'm very perceptive. That's a good word. But I'm also very nurturing. You are. Oh my gosh. That's what I was, you were so comforting to me the whole time because I found you so nurturing. No. And I love being with you. And I love being with women.

And I love being with younger women. And, you know, I was the oldest one in the house. Yes, which you didn't look the oldest. Thank you, thank the Lord. You know, my good surgery. I love that. I remember talking in an interview just about your facelift and how much I was like that. I want to be.

Oh, thank you. I mean, no. And I love just be, you know, it was just. just so nice. Everybody was so bonded. I thought it was great. I love being with all these women. Well, it's going to be so cool for the audience to watch because to me, there's something really powerful about watching women heal together. And the fact that we could get so dramatic and yelling and screaming and the next day, be like, well, anyways. Exactly. Well, you just turn the beat around. No, exactly. And share intimate moments of our life that maybe people don't even know, you know.

Yes, so that you're not as misunderstood because we shared, like, even I was telling people on the podcast, We did some inner child work. Yes. Which once you, that is deep and that is heavy. And once you go there, you have this whole other, like, version of who you see of somebody. You're like, oh, I now have empathy for you and I kind of understand why you are the way you are. It doesn't exist a lot of things at times. But it's more you understand people better when you go that deep.

No, absolutely. And I think that we're all women. And I think women have a common bond that, you know, we're all daughters, right? You know, we're, well, some are sisters, you know, some are mothers, you know, but we all, you know, come from a very similar place. Well, we all also have the common ground of being on reality TV before as well, which I feel like helps us understand each other. But I just, I feel like it must have been so different from filming housewives. Oh, it was so different. In what way?

In what way? Every second of it. I think here we wanted to bond together and understand each other and help each other. And I think sometimes on Housewives, it gets a little competitive. It gets, you want to, you know, find out everybody, you know, it's, you have to be very opinionated on Housewives. Right here, you know, we shared our opinions, but it wasn't like who gets the last word. Yeah, it was like almost a safe space to carry your opinions and work through them rather than be just, well, even though we were yelling over top of each other. But I just, it probably still brought up some reality TV instincts for you.

there are times where you were like, sit this one out, Marge? Yeah, sometimes, sometimes I was like, you know, sometimes I want to say something sarcastic, but I didn't. You know, I held it. This is what was crazy to me because you were telling me how people kind of think you are on housewives and maybe how you are on housewives. But we all know there's so many different sides to a human that we don't see on reality TV. And I just couldn't picture it with you because I'm like, oh, you're so like you hold back on what you say, you take a pause, you think about it. And you're like, oh, that's not usually how it is. No, it's not how it is.

Because it's like in House Lives, you just like, I think you get more frustrated. But I think, you know, we were all a lot more similar. And I was a lot more patient on this show. But I also, you know, it was much more therapeutic. And I really love that. Yeah, I agree. I agree. I feel like after being on a show like Real Housewives of New Jersey for so long,

do you walk into a different kind of show like the one we just did thinking, okay, who's producing themselves, who's being real, who's going to be trouble? Do you go in thinking that or are you just kind of? I did a little bit. I did think that. I wanted, but I thought everybody, I would say everybody was authentic. I think at first people had, some people had a hard time letting go and being authentic. But I think then everybody did. I think everybody let their guard down. Yeah, I agree. By the end of it, we were, well, you'll see, but we were like getting rebirthed into an ocean crime. Yes. Yes, exactly. It was like a rebirth for everybody. No one had their guard up. No one cared. I don't think anybody cared what they looked like. Yeah. It's such a unique show. I feel like. I feel like. it's going to really do well because it's going to be so entertaining. It is a different kind of show where it's more about healing and a little woo-woo. Yes. You know, we had a guru.

And yeah, oh, we sure do. I kept saying I was a witch the whole time. I'm like scared of what they're going to show me say because I'm... No, you are so good. And you know what? You leaned in. And, you know, there's going to be some surprises about you that people are going to see, which I love.

What? We just, when I went in, I'm like, I forget that it's not. just going to be Bachelor Nation or people who watch this podcast watching the show. We're going to get people from Bravo. We're going to get people from the, from Tamar's. Exactly, which I love that. What network is she on? What is she on? Lifetime, oxygen. What is that? I don't know. What is family values on? Family. I don't know. We, maybe we? We can Google it. I think, yes. We have to figure that one now. But also Christine Quinn. Yes, selling sunset. Selling sunset people. Whitney, well, that's the Bravo world. You know, Britney Cart, right? Yeah. I just kept thinking, well, I'm such an open book. People aren't going to know anything new about me. And I'm like, the whole world doesn't know you, Caitlin.

Yes. Exactly. And I think, you know, the thing that you were pigeonholed into broke my heart. Oh, really? No, no. I was disgusted. I wanted to, you know, I was not happy. Yeah. Yeah. It's, yeah. It's, yeah, it's, I mean, we're all pigeonholed into certain. It's hard to say, okay, because people go, you signed up for it. But at the same time, you don't know what you're signing up for. No, you signed up for it. But also it's just like sometimes I would be in shock of some people's opinions of me. No, like I have a lot of great fans that love me and Margaret, you're strong and you're this. And you know, we love these things. And some people are like, you're a shitterer. You, you know, you did this. You said about someone's affair. You hurt their family. I'm like, I'm not the one who slept with, you know, the office manager. I'm just like, you know, I said it about it. Yeah, exactly. It's just like. I also think that's good TV to me. I almost feel that I should have been a little more open on the show we did because I think I was so scared and I held back a lot because I was so scared of being produced or manipulated in some sort of way. I thought you were so honest with your feelings. I just, I was a lot quieter than I usually am. And that's fine.

But I just think good TV. What do you think makes good TV? Like what makes a good reality TV person? I think just being in the moment, being very present, don't give a crap about what anybody else thinks of you. Just being your, and I hate this word because it's so overused, but you're authentic self. Yeah, no. But that's really the truth. I agree.

Just really being present in the moment. I think I do want to bring up one other Bravo show. And I think this is why the show has been successful coming out of the gate. Real Housewives of Rhode Island has just come out. Yeah. And those women did not seem overproduced. When people are so worried about what they're going to look like and, you know, being fake and everything, I think that sucks. Well, to me, I was surprised that they didn't come in and overproduce us. I actually thought they allowed us to totally be like, I was like, is someone going to give me some direction?

And they're like, no, just be you. I was like, nice. Yeah, the lack of direction was amazing. Yeah. You saw me. I was like crying. I was like, I never been treated so nicely, you know, which was so amazing. You know, no direction was perfect. And I think that's why it's going to be a great show. I agree. Okay, what do you think? What makes someone terrible at reality TV? What makes someone is being fake, lying, manipulative, just, you know, fake to be themselves, coming in, you know, with an agenda. Yeah. And now we were together when you were announcing that you were leaving the Real Housewives of New Jersey after seven seasons, which is a lot. Yes.

So you announced that in March. So what's, what stood out to me actually is that you said it, wasn't impulsive. So you'd been like thinking about this. Yes. Kind of stirring on it since what December? Since December I had known. Yes. So even before then I had talked about it, but December I had discussed it with the network. And what was it? What was it that that you were stirring on that made you feel like should I leave? Should I stay? What was it? Our last season was so dark and it didn't feel good anymore. Listen, there was a lot of days that were like heaven and hell, but I loved it. Yeah. I didn't love it. And I was like, that's not my life. Yeah. I want to go to a place that I love a, you know, just happy, safe space. I mean, you know, every day doesn't have to be, you know,

all roses and rainbows. Yeah. But I worked with some people where it wasn't authentic relationships. I didn't enjoy it anymore. And I was like, this isn't my life. And if I was going to have to be with certain people, I was like, I'm not going back to that. Yeah. And I know. And I know. knew that was going to be the case. And then when we got on this show, I was like, this just feels right. And it feels so different. And I had already discussed it with the network. And I said, guys, give me a heads up at least, you know, a month or two, P.S. They gave me two days. But that's right. And they had cool while I was on that show. And I was like, it's fine. I was so, peace with it. You saw I was so calm. Yes, you were. You were. I was actually very impressed

with how you handled that whole thing just because it is, that is a big deal. You did seven seasons, it's easy to say yes because it's a paycheck. Yes. You stay relevant. It helps other things in your life. Yes. And you know what you're doing. It's a secure to spot, you know, and to say no, because it doesn't feel aligned with you anymore is like such a power move, but also it's like a power move for you. Yeah. I felt so calm with it. And I was also, I'd have to compromise who I am. I'd have to acquiesce to things that is not me. Yeah. And I just can't do that. I think, Other people could do that. I think other people, well, money is not good money.

I'm very big about that. I agree. And I just can't do things for money. I agree. I feel like that only, and we've talked about this before, is when you choose you and you choose what like feels right with you and you step away from money that doesn't, you know, it matters, but it doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things. When you close that door that doesn't feel good, so many more open that that go, okay, this happened for a reason I'm supposed to be here. Exactly. And I feel like so many other opportunities have opened up since then. I've been very blessed and lucky. So it's been great. And because of that, like, are you allowed to talk about the other filming that you've done since? There's great. Well, you know, people saw it. I filmed for Golden Life in Palm Beach. Just like I ran away with those girls. And, you know, there's definitely going to be other things in my future with that, which I can't, you know, not officially discuss. But there's definitely some other shows that are on my horizon.

So excited. Okay, wait. So what is the thing in Palm Beach, the golden life? Okay. Which the, the lovely OG New York girls have a show that filmed. And I, you know, did a little cameo on there. And they're the best. They're all stars. So it wasn't triggering in any way to step into that. No, no, no. Because they're all hijinks and fun. Yes. And what was the conversation with your husband, Joe, when you were deciding to not, to potentially not go back? Yeah. We had spoken about it a while ago. He was like, you do you. Yeah. You do what you want. is you're not happy. You just do whatever you want. Because the husband's all bond too and have a French. And they get a lot of camera time. Yeah, they do. Was he sad at it? Jersey house. No. Oh. He can kill us. It's like whatever. No, he was just like, Mark, you always land on your feet. You do what makes you happy. Yeah. Oh, that's nice. Yeah. He's very easy going. Which I feel like you need. Yeah. Oh, my God. Could you imagine if I was like with a high maintenance pain in the ass? They wouldn't survive. I wouldn't survive. I mean, I couldn't do it. This is the thing. I always think, when I think of being with like a nice go with the flow man, I'm like, would I eat him

alive? But it actually makes me respect them more because I'm like, oh, this is what I need. You know what I mean? People would always say, Margaret, you know, walks all over Joe. No, Joe is a very confident man. You have to be with a woman like yourself with me, whatever it is. You have to be very comfortable in your being a confident person. And he's go with the flow on certain things. And other things, you know, we compromise on. It's very simple. Certain things aren't important to him that are important to me. And certain things aren't important to me that are important to him. And we work on it.

Yeah. I love your guys' relationship. When we were in the house filming, I was like, I need to watch clips of you from Housewives. And you are, you're one-liners or you're like pushing the people in the pool or just your relationship with Joe. You are so iconic. Oh, thank you. Thank you. It was so fun to see that side of you.

Just know when you actually get to know somebody and then you see what they're portrayed as on TV. Not that that wasn't you. It's very much you, but I know a different person. It was like, yeah, but, you know, I was a little, you know, don't get me mad. No, not you, obviously. I'm never going to be that way to you. Listen, I could have a fit. I could have a tempered tantrum at home like that. Yeah. Without a doubt. But so we all can. Yeah. I mean, I could flip it at home. I mean, I totally can. I almost threw an ice cream in Joe's face the other day. I was livid. You did or you almost did? Almost did. I didn't. I thought you were going to say, and I did. No, no, no. Committed to the bit just through an...

No, it's just like, you know, it happens with the directions and the driving. It always revolves around driving. Oh my gosh. Same. Driving for me, but in a car, I find myself even if it's... So if it's a friend, I'll shut my mouth, but I'll be so anxious. But if I'm in a car with anyone I'm dating, I, like, think they're the, like a monster. Like, I'm treat them like they've murdered my family. I know. What is it? It's just like, because Joe, this is what it is. I'm very particular. with the directions. I want to get there the most efficient way possible. And he doesn't feel that way. He's like, we'll get there when we get there. We'll get there when we get there. That is not for me. And he does things out of spite. If I don't say don't, you know, turn right there. But he knows he's to turn right there. He's like, well, because you're so controlling. You didn't say turn right. So he goes

straight. I went crazy. I go, you did that as spite. You're sick. Why would you do that? My ice cream's going to melt. I'm not going to eat it in the car. If this ice cream melts, it's going in your face. Like, I got so upset because it's like my dairy queen. I did very seriously. Seriously. Wait, your ice cream of choice is Dairy Queen? Yes. Tell me more. Why? A blizzard. Who doesn't love a blizzard? Me? You don't love Dairy Queen? I have to bring your Dairy Queen. Why don't you love Dairy Queen? Well, I just started getting into ice cream. I never really liked ice cream until recently. And I can't really enjoy anything except for Jennings. Okay. Okay. What is it? What is it about Jennings? The texture is better for me. You don't like a soft serve? I don't know. I don't know. I might have to bring my Dairy Queen. They mix in the Heathbubes. What is your go-to flavor? It's the Heath Bar. What's Heath Bar?

What? Okay, we do, I mean, this is a girl who didn't know what a caftan is, by the way. I just want to announce that right now. I didn't know what a caftan was. I don't know what any materials are. She didn't know what a caftan was. I was having a little freak out about that, but that was okay. You're like, what do they call a caftan in Canada?

She had to Google that. It's like caftan. I was like. I don't think we have Heath bars in Canada. It's a candy bar. It has a toffee chocolate covered. toffee. And they crunch up in the, I'm going to bring it to you. I used to do, this was my hack with anything. Oh, I used to order McDonald's every Sunday. I love McDonald's. Do you know, I'm a big

McDonald's. You are? Very big. What's your go-to order? A quarter pound of a cheese, large fries, dye coke. Okay, I do a Mckeetland. It's a cheeseburger. And then you put fries on the cheeseburger. I put the fries on it all. And then you put mayonnaise on top of the fries on the cheeseburger. Oh, I just drooled a little bit. I know. Joe and I love that. He loves, he puts the mayonnaise on the French fries also. Yes, but then I would order a little soft serve because they rush your order a bit faster if there's ice cream in the car. Oh, I didn't know that. But I wouldn't eat the ice cream. I would just do it to give my McDonald's faster. Oh, that's very smart. So that was a hack. Okay. I'm like circle back, Caitlin. I could talk about McDonald's all day long. I love.

I love we're very big McDonald's lovers as well. I want to go back to you the decision to leave because I heard somewhere that you had long conversations with Bravo and Andy Cohen. Yes, I've discussed it with Andy, and I love Andy. You love Andy? I do love Andy. He's so good at what he does. I feel like he's like a Chris Harrison in the Bravo world, obviously, but he's like, he's just kind of like the face of the whole franchise, which I love.

He's funny, he's funny, dynamic, you know, and he takes it seriously. He's good style. And he has a good style. Does he have good feet? You know, his feet are good. I haven't seen a lot of them, but I have seen them. Yeah, I can't picture him just like in barefoot walking around. No, no, no, no.

I've seen him in flip-flops. Okay. What did those conversations look like? What did he say? I just, you know, he's like, Marge, you know, he understood we, you know, it was, he understood exactly why, you know, and he's just like, you'll always be in the family. You know, we're, I feel like we're the same age. Yeah.

You know, we're contemporaries. I felt like it was a very nice conversation. Did anyone try to force you to stay? No. Oh. No, I think they, they saw the show the direction was going in and they were like, it doesn't feel right for you. What direction was it going that didn't feel right?

I think a cast member, and I'll just say, it was not even Teresa as her husband. Okay. There was such tumult there. Wait, her new husband? Yeah, this, yes. Oh, okay. Yes, yes, yes. And there was just some things that were just not, I cannot be around him.

Ah. And I think it has to be a friend group and I couldn't, you know, be around her. Yeah. It is true. This is the truth. I tested the new people last August. Yeah. myself, Melissa and Dolores,

that is the God's honest truth. Yeah. And at that time, we were told, you know, by production, she wasn't in the mix. And that wasn't going to happen. I said,

I won't even test film if she's in the mix. Yeah. They assured me she was not in the mix. Some things had changed. As soon as they changed, I was like, hey, this isn't for me.

And they knew it wasn't for me. Yeah. It was just very simple. Yeah. It was a simple thing. It was just like, you know, unless everybody was made up and getting along,

there were, you know, the twainers. weren't going to meet. But would that ever happen where everybody gets along in a real husband world? No, but it was so dark. You know, it was so bad. Have you talked about that about what it was? That was so dark. Yeah, everybody. I mean, Andy said it was like the darkest thing he's ever heard on top. He's, you know, besides the fact he said he wanted me to suffer, he wanted my son to suffer. It was like, I couldn't even be in the same room with him as last season. Okay, yeah. So that's like,

it's beyond. That's just like, it's a boundary. Yeah. Yeah. And by the way, the husbands aren't paid. Yeah. So the husbands, I just want to announce that, the husbands aren't paid cast members. The women are the paid cast members. So we can't tell this woman who to be married to. Right. Right?

It's like, that's very simple also. Do the husbands have to be involved if the wives are? Pretty much. On Jersey, it was the husbands are a part of it. And then, so Bravo then announced that season 15 was moving forward with Teresa, Melissa, Dolores. Yes. And then new women also?

Yes, yes. Did that, so that alone, was that like the, the bottom line for you that made your decision? No, no, no. They announced after I resigned. Okay, got it. I knew that was the whole thing. It's just like they were, we talked about it in December.

Yeah. They knew that I wasn't going to come back. They, we were, we decided, I wasn't announcing anything. There was nothing to resign from. Okay. At that point, I could have resigned then. We talked about in December. I knew I wasn't coming back.

Okay. They had called while I was on the show. Got it. They were like, we're going to announce you do your resignation now. Mm-hmm. But I already knew. Makes sense. Okay.

And then have you spoken to Melissa and Dolores at all since? Yes, absolutely. Oh. Yes. Yes. I'm very close with that. Oh, that's nice. And then you mentioned you filmed with some of potential new women.

Yes. What is that experience like? Like, did you love them? I thought they were going to be good for the show. One of them actually made the show. Okay. One of them made the show. What do you mean made the show?

She's on the show now. But do you have to like audition kind of thing? Is she like auditioned? Oh. That's what it is. When you test film these new girls, there has to be a chemistry test. Okay. And but does that air?

No. Okay, so the chemistry test is just to see how you guys. How they go with the cast members. Yes. And then that's not aired. I got it. Okay. And then do you think you'll ever pop in as like a friend?

No, no, no, no. Really? Never. Never. I think, you know, when one door closes. Yeah. You're done. You're done.

The other one's over. It was a beautiful chapter, you know, chapters in my life. But I think, you know, when it's over, it's over. You got to go out on a high. And I was pretty vindicated by the end. So I went out on a big high. Yeah, you did. So even if Teresa wasn't on it, you still wouldn't go back.

It's not my vibe anymore. You know, I think I've outgrown it. I think it's gone in a different direction. I think I'm in a different point in life. What is your favorite housewife city? Right now, Rhode Island. It is. The best.

Okay, what do you think about Ashley I? Bachelor Nation is great. I mean, the girl's a crier. Was she a cry around Bachelor Nation? Oh, that's all she was known for. That was like her thing, which is so funny because I've never really seen her cry off camera. And she even said, she's like, I don't know what it is about being on TV.

that brings out this emotional side of me. And I was like, I got to get it. I feel like I'm the same. I was, even when I went on Bachelor, I was like, I'm not going to cry. And then I, like, was forcing myself to not cry. And then one time I was like, I just got a break. And then I cried the whole season. No, it's, how much did I cry on reality retreat?

I know, I know. You cried. No, all of us cried on, I fly your retreat. Yeah. I mean, that was, yeah, different. But Ashley just, Ashley, who's your favorite housewife on Rhode Island? Alicia. Alicia, hands down.

She's the best. Why is that? She is funny. She loves a cracker. She is just, she can't drive. She can't go over a bridge. I mean, at first, you know, at first I didn't love her husband. I felt like her fiance.

But meanwhile, then at the reunion, you know, when he said certain things, you know, he wants to have a meeting with her with the money. I don't want to go to a meeting. I don't want to hear. I don't understand. You know, I felt a lot better for him. He did the right thing. He's giving her 50% of the business.

Just everything about her I'm obsessed with. It is. She is just a natural character. Yes, she is. I feel like I just from talking to Ashley about everything, that world is so different from what we're used to in Bachelor world. Like we are in Bachelor, they're not going to like me saying this, but it's so heavily produced. Yes. And it's the drama is kind of curated because they'll, you know, it's the same drama every season.

It's not different. It's always some girls not there for the right reason. Somebody is mean to the girls. Somebody's different with the guy than they are. It's always the same drama where in Housewives is. It's like real-life shit that comes up all the time. Yeah, I mean, I don't understand why people go on. I am going to say this.

I mean, though it made the season Rula and her cheating husband. Yeah. Why would someone go on television while they're having an affair? Do you think that's not coming out? Yeah. A bunch of bird brains. It has to come out. Yeah, well, of course.

But that's a good point. They obviously had to know that it was happening. Yeah, I mean. And you want to just air that. And it's just like, why would you go on television? Right. Why does anybody go on television? vision. And, you know, if they have all this dirty laundry, thinking it won't come out. Maybe they don't care it's going to come out. Oh, when I came off of The Bachelor, and again, this is like so many years ago, my girlfriend was like, go through everything that's online, go through anything you've said. Like, not, I mean, I'm not like a racist asshole who's saying crazy shit. But I said some mean shit on Twitter when I went back and looked. I was like, oh my God. I was like making foot of Kim Kardashian.

I love, what'd you say about Kim? I said that I'd rather swallow a bag of hair than be in the same room as her. Oh my God, I love it. Swallow a bag of hair. Wow, that's impressive. That sounds disgusting, right? Disgusting. I was like, oh my God, I was a troll.

I love it. I was also like, I don't know how old when Twitter came out. So I'm just going to blame it on that. I know, I didn't have really, you know, I didn't say anything on Twitter. I'd never gone on Twitter before. Really? Yeah. Oh, gosh.

I was like, I thought I was so funny, though. I feel like I say things for shock values. you a lot in my life because I think I'm funny. You are funny. But well, I think you're funny. Thank you. I thought I was funny and then I realized I was just an asshole. And now I think I'm actually like if I said, you know, I just feel like I said things

as comedians would. They'll say me for chocolate. And then I'm like, you're not a comedian, Caitlin. You can't say that. This episode of Off the Vine is brought to you by Alloy Health. I feel like we talk so much about hormones in our 20s and 30s and then nobody prepares you for perimenopause and menopause. And then all of a sudden, bam, you're done.

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I just feel like that's one of the reasons I've always loved Poshmark. Obviously, it's been such a fun place for me to just sell pieces from my own closet, but I also love shopping on there because you never know what you're going to find, whether it's a sold-out jacket. I have actually found so many sold-out pieces on Pothmark, a vintage denim find designer handbags or brands I really love, like Free People, Revolve, or Eritzia. My personal favorite. It kind of just feels like you're getting access to everybody's best closet. And I swear there's just something so satisfying about finding a piece that you've been thinking about forever and then snagging it for less. than retail. It feels like you kind of won, you know. I like to win. Also, I love that when you're ready to make room in your closet, you can list things that you no longer are wearing instead of

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love you because you say what everyone else is thinking or scared to say or they criticize you because they think you're behind everything. Yes. But what I've learned, about you, it was the first day that we got to the house together on our healing journey. The first, you just know everything. Yes, I don't know how that is. And you put pieces together for everybody else because you know everything. I don't think you're behind any of it or a shithster. I think you just know everything.

I've been around a long time. I'm 59 years old already. Of course. You have good intuition. You know what's going on. You can pinpoint things. Yes, exactly. Like I always say, I'm perceptive because I could put the pieces together.

Don't get mad at me. Yeah. And I think people get upset about that. Well, do you get upset at how a lot of people who come out of other reality shows say, oh, I got a bad edit? What do you think about how I edit you on Housewives? No, I don't think I've got a bad edit. Sometimes I think it's, you know, I'm hardcore. I'm not going to lie. It's like if I'm pissed off or if I'm, you know, saying, I don't, I don't think you get a bad edit. Sometimes I don't think they show every side of you. Yeah, exactly. I don't think they've always showed my best, you know, emotional.

moments. I mean, you know, I could get annoyed. They, you know, cut out. I had the best pride party ever. That's the only thing that really annoy me because I put a lot of money to it. But, um, and it was so beautiful. But, um, no, I think some people say they get a bit at it. Well, if you didn't say and get it and do it, you know, they couldn't have it. Yeah. That's true. I keep getting scared that they're going to edit me on the show to look like I'm superior because I'm like, I've done all the healing. No. They're never going to do that. You were, firstly, you were so honest, so sweet. You never made it out like once that you were better. You were like the most. I'm so scared. I'm so scared. No, never in a million years. I think they're going to make it out like I'm yantic short and there because I did, you know, I knew everybody.

Yeah. Well, you did. You were, you helped me a lot with the context of how everybody got here and why there's drama here and why there's drama there. And like, for people that are going to watch the show that were on, the Tamar and Kenya drama, it's just. Well, I didn't know about it until we got there a little bit. Oh.

Until like, you know, Tamar's, I didn't know. know there was back drama with that. You knew about the Kenya and Kim drama. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Everybody knows that. Except for me. And Jen. Except for you and Jen.

I mean, Jen literally knows nothing. Jen knows nothing. I love that little. She was so cute little Jen. Yeah, she's so cute. Have you ever watched yourself back and thought I went too far? Have I ever watched it? I said, I went too far.

I've watched myself back and said I hated that outfit. Why didn't I get a facelip before I got on the show? Why was the little pork chop? Have I ever? Oh my God, I was. I was, you know, because I was chubby on that. Have I ever thought I've went too far? I think one time I said something that was taken wrong. I meant it a different way. Listen, I did reveal that Jennifer Aden's husband had an affair. Okay.

But she knew already. Okay. But the world didn't know. Okay. Well, the world did know, but not like the whole TV world. Like everybody in Bergen County, you know, a lot of people did know. because she really pissed me off. And I was like, that's it.

You know, because she would slut shame me and judge me because I had an affair and then said, like, mother-like daughter, you know, and she did other things to another castmate, Jackie Goldschneider, who's now I'm not friends with, but she tried. You were like, project much? What? Was she projecting? Yeah. And I was like, that's it. Yeah. You know, your husband is, you know, just as guilty as us, if not worse.

Right. But so I had brought out. But then she was so upset. You hurt my children. You hurt my children. I was like, I didn't hurt your children. Yeah. But I, she was so upset about it and I felt bad. And I said, children are resilient. They'll go to therapy. They're fine. You know, I was trying to be helpful. Like your kids will be fine. They're amazing kids are resilient. They're going to go therapy. The world went crazy on me. They didn't turn out my absurd. I didn't mean in a flippant kind of way. I just meant like you guys have overcome this already. Your great parents. You know, your kids, this isn't going to scar them for the rest of their life. You know what I mean? This is going to be a blip on the radar screen. You know, and everyone's like, well, your kids didn't get over it.

Your kids don't talk to you. My two stepkids were grown adults where everything's fine now. You know what I mean? They were more devastated that we got divorced. You two weren't getting divorced. You know what I mean? There's a whole different scenario. Right.

But it got so thrown out of proportion. Did the audience turn on you? Some of them. Yeah. Yeah, some of them got very upset. How do you feel when, like, does that affect you when the audience gets upset with you? Sometimes, you know, eh, me. You know, it's, you know, I tried to, I explained it.

I know who I am. The audience is very fickle. Yes. They are very, very fickle. They love you one second, hate you the next second. And then the people who really get you, you know, oh, come back. Yeah, that's so true. You mentioned stepkids being upset with you, your son.

Where's the family dynamic now? The family dinners, listen, my son's 30 years old. You know, everything's great. I never was separated from him. Everyone's like, Margaret. A kid say, no, my kids do not hate me. No, they love you. I'm very close with all my children.

Yeah. You know, when I had first gotten divorced, two of my stepchildren, and they're my children. I raised them since they were little, you know, we're not talking to me. They were very devastated. We had a beautiful family, very tumultuous marriage. Everything's fine. I will be honest, my step door things aren't okay. But all my other kids, everyone thinks great.

Joe has two children. Amazing. My three, you know, my three from my first marriage, perfect. Yeah. One, okay, one at it like, how many are they? four, two, six, okay. One isn't amazing, you know, no family's perfect. Yeah, no, that's for sure.

I mean, I have six step sisters. I don't even talk to four of them. Exactly. I'm just saying, Joe has one sister. He doesn't talk to her. Yeah, you know? It's like, so we have one like in the mix that's everything's not perfect. Okay.

Yeah. You know, doing the best I can. That's all you can do. And I try. You know what? What are you doing? My best. My best.

And you know what? And that's all I could do with the point. And I feel like you're, well, from, from. from hearing about your mom so many times and then seeing a video of her while we were filming and just who she is, Marge Senior, right? Yes, Marge Senior. Yeah. I feel like she's taught you so much about being resilient and bold, would you say? Yes, March Senior is very, very resilient.

Little Hungarian immigrant came across the border or into Ostrana bicycle. Yep. Yeah, that'll toughen you up. That'll toughy up. I feel like that'll get passed on to you. Yes, yes. Yeah, because you seem very resilient and very tough to me, but also nurturing and kind at the same time. Thank you.

come by. Does she love watching you on Housewives or does she worry about you? She gets worried. She loves watching it. She, listen, she loves the perks. The woman's got a facelift. She's got new teeth. She looks unbelievable. I mean, you know, she cashes in anytime she can. But she gets very worried and nervous. Yeah. She's very proud. I mean, if you come from me, that woman will take you down. Yeah. March singer. Woo. I would be scared of her. I'd be scared She's a little scary. She's tough. She's the warden. We call her the warden. Yes, Lexi and I call her the warden. She is a beast. If you, you know, if you come after me, she is. What do they call you in the family? Is it just the Mar? Liberace. They said, I want everyone to look like me. Liberace

said, you know, he made his like boyfriend look like him, this, that, the other thing. It's so funny because, you know, my son always says that. He goes, your disciples. You know, he's like everybody, you know, everybody's blonde. You want everybody to have the fake teeth. You know, we say he's, I crack up. That's funny. Did you want everybody to have pigtails when you had pigtails? A lot of people did wear the pigtails. And I'll still wear the pink tails. I wore the little pigtails when we're on the trip. I would put them in. We were so hot. I kept my hair up a lot. It was really hot there. But why did you originally? I feel like you told me this. Why did you originally start with the pigtails? Was it just like you like you like you like you're so short. Years ago. No, it's like my hair was so short. Years ago. No, it's like my hair was so short hair. She's like, you've got to wear the pigtails more. And I would always wear them as a little girl. She's like, you got to bring them back. And that was so many years ago. And it just worked. It became your signature.

Yeah, my signature, Powerhouse and Pigtails. Powerhouse and Pigtails. You've really like, do people know how much of a businesswoman you are? I think people forget or don't realize. I had a very tremendous business before I got on Housewives. Yes. The only reason I went on Housewives was because I had a bad lawsuit. I mean, I was very happy and rich before I got on Housewives.

Okay, wait. Tell me, tell me, so you were happy and rich with what was your company called? Macbeth Collection. Yes. And so you had that, you were fine, but then you had a lawsuit and you're like, I need money. So you went on the house. I had a very bad lawsuit. I had a great brand. Obviously, you know, I love color and prints. Either the way I dress. Yes. And we always designed prints and patterns. We were in licensing. Our stuff was on everything. We're the first female brand in Walmart to put on at the time tech accessories in like 20, what was that, 2010, 2011. We're on iPhone cases, on earbuds, on headphones. We're. We were everywhere. You know, do you know how big it was?

Like, I was a little delusional. I should have been a little smarter, truthfully. I mean, I would take deals because the guys were good looking. I mean, I was a little nuts. Hey, it worked. It worked. I was making so much money. I was successful because I could be creative.

Yeah. And Lexi built the whole business with me. We were just doing great. We were traveling constantly at trade shows, meeting people, getting tons of press. And, but, you know, one lawsuit could really take it out. Let me tell you. That's scary. One happens.

another happens. You could be riding high one minute. The next minute, you could be, who. I don't like that. No, I don't like that either. By the way, I do not like that. But it happened, but I bounced back. You did bounce back. I bounced back. What are you allowed to say with the lawsuit? I don't even like to say the name of what it is. Because I don't like to even talk about it. That's so fair. It was very public. Yeah. It was a big company that thought I was much wealthy. But people thought, you know, I might have been doing, you know, more than 60 million at retail. But that, money wasn't all coming to me. Right. It was like I would get a royalty. But I feel like people see people

with money and they go, how can I take that down? My licensees were doing, you know, a lot of money and I'd be getting, you know, five, six percent. Yes. But what did it teach you? Having that brand and starting that business, what did it teach you about success and what did it teach you about failure? Um, you know, listen. It's not about, you know, it doesn't come easy. Yeah. But it could go away very quickly. Yes. And you have to be, uh, read your contracts, have contracts, have a good, lawyer and you know um everything's hard work there's no overnight success yeah but you can bounce back and you know what you if you didn't want you could do it again that's true didn't CNN money report like that Macbeth was doing 26 million annual sales did that feel surreal yeah it felt surreal

that's insane it is it is uh it was insane it was doing that then it was actually doing more later but yeah so and it was like moms making millions but that opens up to lawsuits because people then come digging. Yes. You know, it would be in California, a prop 65. There's red dye on your packaging. You know, there's, there's attorneys that just go around looking for any loophole. It's a little crazy. It's a little crazy. It makes you be like, oh, is it worth it? Yeah, sometimes I say that. Is it worth it? It's just good to be under the radar. But then did housewives change how people saw you as a businesswoman or did that kind of get swept under the rug? It got swept under the rug a little bit. They didn't realize, you know,

they, you know, you get those crazy troll accounts. You copied people. That's why you were sued. This, why this. You're this. You're that. I was like, every business has lawsuits. Yeah. You know, people who've never had a business don't understand that. People who, you know, it's very common in business. There's, you know, we weren't stealing money. We weren't this. You know, it's very, um, the licensing business is very litigious. Yeah. And how do you know when something, like when a brand has legs versus something that's just like a cute idea? Because I have a lot of cute. ideas, but then I just, I started a hair accessory brand and then I had my wine label. And I'm, I've got this itch to do something else. And I have so many cute ideas, but I don't know how to

decipher. Like, that's cute or that has legs. I've seen a lot of shitty ideas become big businesses. Yeah. And I've seen a lot of great ideas go by the wayside. I think it's just putting the effort in. Yeah. And taking the distance. I always, listen, Suarez, which I just started. It's not even just started. We probably started close to three years ago. It is not taken off yet. And Lexi and I are super creative. We're great at marketing, but we've never done a beverage before. Beverage space is hard. Oh, is it hard?

Yes. What do you think is a mistake you see women make when they start a business? Thinking that things just happen overnight, knowing what they're good at, knowing what they're not good at and not hiring the right people. Yeah. Because, you know, you're not good at everything. I don't care. Like I always say, Lexi and we're great from people. We are great at design.

We're great marketing. We're not great at the back end. Yeah, you've got to hire somebody. You've got to hire people to know what you're at the back end. Things take a lot more money than you realize. Yeah. Though I do think it's easier to start a business sometimes now than it was when I first started. I mean, I would go look in the back of magazines to editors to get my like little press kits out there.

I'd be like looking at the back, you know, Adam Glassman, who's still like the creative director of Oprah. I'd be like looking to get his address and sending it to Condé Nast. It's like pretty crazy the way it was. And now you just, a business pops up on Instagram and TikTok every day. Well, that's what I feel like it's more complicated now to start a business because everyone can and everyone does. Everyone can and everyone does, but everyone's not successful. That's true. And there's, with Soray, I feel like I'm always fascinated by the moktail space. I just feel like everyone's drinking less. It's a perfect space to have and be in right now.

I feel like there's a lot of sober curiosity happening in cocktails. But like you said, the beverage industry is notoriously just hard. It's difficult. It was all run by, you know, white men. And they didn't get, when I first, when we, Lexi and I first came out, they're like, non-alcoholic space is not happening. We got like shot down nonstop three years ago. Now everybody's stepping into it. So hopefully now we could be at that point.

Yeah. Where we have some velocity behind us. But when I, when we first started, there was like two, three other brands. Oh, really? Right? Lex. Alex is in the other room. Sorry, also, like, you can mix it. If for people who drink, you could mix that cucumber one would be so good with a gin if you're a drinker.

That's what people do. People do mix this with gin. And the other thing is, I never drank. I wasn't a drinker. Yeah. You know, so I was just like, but I was on a show where, and Jersey is known to drink the least. I just want to say that. Really?

Yeah. But people drank. And I was like, everybody needed it for liquid courage or whatever it was. but I was like, I'm sick of drinking cranberry juice and club soda. Everyone's like, Mark, you have a chronic UTI. What is going up? You know? Just constantly with the cranberry juice.

I just, yeah, I agree. It's like even for me, I thought I would drink so much more on the show that we did. But then our guru kind of called us out because we had tequila shots before somatic dancing. Yes. And he was like, maybe don't do that because it's like healing and you're blocking something. And like, what are you, why are you numbing or why do you have to like do that for liquid courage? And I was like, oh, shit. I know. I'm afraid to you even see that's thematic dancing video, though.

I was like, I don't know what I was doing. We were blindfolded. Yeah. And we all had to dance around like. Blindfolded and headphones and it's quiet. And then we're all dancing. And you just know, like, for people who've never been on TV, it's so funny. Like, I remember going on TV for the first time and realizing how many people are behind the scenes.

Yes. Because you just think like it's a couple cameras or something, but it's like a whole crew and not only camera crew, but production and this person and lighting and sound. How many people you think saw us naked? Oh, at 220. Yes, exactly. Like, the cameras in our room. I didn't even care at that point. I was just, like, walking around naked.

I was like, yeah. I couldn't get over the cameras. I can't wait to see that part because I turned around at one point. I was naked talking to Jen in the bathroom. And then I look out. I was like, there's cameras in here. I know. Who's watching me just naked right now?

I know. Well, it was like over my bed. There was like big brother cameras in everywhere. Yes, I know. That was the only thing I was not used to. That is not for house. Housewives did not do that. Did we sign anything that said that they could show us naked?

I don't even know. I hope they just block it out. Well, because one time I started talking shit about someone, but I pulled down my pants so that they couldn't air it. Good, good job. That was smart. I thought so. A couple more questions because I'm so fascinated by the beverage space because I was in it.

But how do you get people to try something when the category is crowded? Like in the wine space, for example, that is run by white men. Yes. The old white men everywhere. And I had to fight so hard to, like, they're like, no, not another celebrity brand. And it was just so hard. But I feel like also to get people to like a wine, to get people to like, in a space that's very crowded, how do you get people to like try it? Yeah.

When we first sort of wasn't so crowded, I mean, I was showing up doing tastings. Yeah. Lexi and I did some trade shows. Now we're selling on TikTok. We send it to people. That's nice too that you can sell on TikTok. Yeah. We could sell on TikTok.

Yeah. So we just, you know, we just do events constantly. Yeah. We constantly show up at events. We do pop-ups. That's really what we're doing. Yeah. And where can people get it right now if they want to go?

On our website, drinksoire.com, which takes you right to TikTok shops. It's like, I want to put that in a wine glass just with ice. It's so good. Yeah. Yeah. And it's all natural. The one thing with us is it's naturally sweetened. It's only 45 calories.

It's like such a good summer beverage. It is. It is a good summer beverage. I love it. It's very refreshing. It is very refreshing. I love it. Okay, we all know this feeling when your to do list is so long.

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Find your next home at Apartments.com, the place to find a place. Okay, I have a couple games for you before I let you go. Oh, I love a game. This one is called The Marge Cals It. Okay. Okay. So you're obviously known for reading a room, perceptive. Yes, perceptive.

Okay, you read women well. I feel like you read a room. I'm going to give you a category and you tell me the truth. Quick, honest, no overthinking. Okay, okay. Okay. A housewife move that is always fake. A housewife move that's always fake? Yeah.

Oh, my God. What's a housewife move that's a, oh, God. Like, are they really pulling hair? No, no, no. They kind of are. So that's the whole thing. A housewife move that is always fake. Oh, getting up in the morning wearing full glam. Oh. That's always fake. Like when you see someone in bed, they have full glam on. Yeah. That's a housewife move that's always fake. Okay, that's a good one.

No one wakes up with full makeup on. No. And otherwise we wouldn't have to be. Yeah, that's absolutely bullshit. Okay, a friendship behavior you no longer tolerate. A friend, oh, gilting. Like, you know, like someone gilting me all the time. Oh, you don't call. You don't, we're not as close as I thought we were.

You know, stuff like that. People not understanding that everybody's busy has a life. Like, I love the friends that, like, if you don't talk to, like, listen, you and I can't talk all the time. We bonded so much. Yeah. But, like, you got to catch up where you left off. Yes. You can't have those friendship.

with too much pressure. Oh, I can't. Yeah. Those friendships, I will not tolerate that. I'm very much aligned with you. A business mistake that makes you cringe. A business mistake that makes me cringe. Oh, my God.

I have so many. Not reading my contracts. Not reading them correctly. Not having the proper representation. Yeah. You know, just throwing money at stuff and just, you know, not paying attention, but more like not having the proper contracts in place. that's fair. A design trend that needs to die. Oh, you know, modern farmhouse. Oh, really?

That's my biggest, you know, that was my biggest thing. You know, just stuff like that. Just, you know, beige. Constant beige. Sorry. That's funny because I, that was my style like, I would say five years ago, maybe more. I loved it. And now I have the same thought. I'm like, you know, you know what it is? It's not timeless. To me, it's not timeless. You know, it's timeless. You know, people, not have, you know, people buying their artwork at home goods. I mean, I love a home goods. I shop at home goods. I love to go in there to find finds. But it's just like people having things without personality, you know. My, what was it my, I think it was my second apartment in life. I honestly, you would have died. It was a shoebox. I lived in a 420 square foot little shoebox. And I thought it was so cool to have red and black everything. So my sheets were red. Like a Ferrari? What?

Like a Ferrari? Yeah, sure. Yeah, like whatever. I just thought it was so cool. My curtains were red. My bed sheets were red. Keep in mind, this is one room with my bed in it, my couch in it my kitchen. And everything was black and red red. But it could have worked. It didn't. It didn't work. Uh-uh. It was a chair like this as my couch. And it was a green chair. So I just put a red sheet over top of it and tucked it in. Oh, you would have died. It was tragic. But my second apartment. Okay. That's okay. I also had no style back then. So now at least I know what a cap tan is. Yes. I'm... Okay. A reunion tactic that never works. A reunion tactic that never works? Yeah.

Oh, God. Oh, there's some... What's a reunion tactic that doesn't work? I mean, all my reunion tactics always worked. Yeah. What doesn't work? Trying to scream over someone. You can't scream over the person because then Andy tells you let her speak.

Yeah. So just trying to over-talk somebody never work. That's good. A compliment you secretly love getting. Oh, a compliment I super really love getting. You're the smartest one on Jersey. Ha ha! That's a good one. I would like that one.

Which I get that one a lot. Sorry, people. You're a smart business woman. Thank you. Well, not even just in business. You're just smart. You are smart. Something you're done apologizing for.

Something I'm done apologizing for. Something I'm done apologizing for. Let me just think about that one. Being, you know, being tough. I think being tough. think women get that a lot. Like just, you know, being a bitch. Yeah. I don't care. I really don't care anymore. You know what I'm saying? It's just like to being direct. Oh, that was harsh. Did it? Too bad. Yeah. I like that. You know what I'm saying? It's just like sometimes people need

to hear the truth. I'm not going to apologize for saying the truth. And I think that's what it is. I'm on the other end of it where I always want somebody to tell me the truth. Yeah. Tell me the truth. I don't have to say me like people don't want to hear the truth. I'm not going to apologize for saying the truth. I agree. I agree. Okay. And then, um, housewife version. Most misunderstood. Housewife? Most misunderstood housewife. Lisa Rina. Oh. How come?

I think she got it very badly. I think everyone's like Lisa Rina. You know, they made it out like she was evil or bitchy or, you know, she starts up. They needed her. Yeah. She was amazing housewife. Yeah. And I don't like, I don't like what, you know, certain things. I used to watch her on days of our lives. I love Lisa Rina. And one time we were Bravo Con and she was booed and I almost, I live it.

I yelled at people. I was like, don't you booed, Lisa Rina. She was booed? Mm-hmm. Because it was like her final season. They were mad the way she acted. I didn't like it. And by the way, you know, she's made quite a comeback. Traders. She killed it. Yeah, she was so good. She's unbelievable. I love her. Okay, best dressed housewife. Best dressed housewife. Besides you, of course. Oh, you're so sweet. I mean, I love the way I dressed on Jersey. I'm trying to think.

You know, oh, that's a tough one because you know what it is. I could. I could say like a, not a Bronwyn-Newport. She's because she's so editorial. I like the way she dresses. I want to go. It's going to have to be someone on Beverly Hills, though, for me. Okay. Because there's a, yeah, DeRitte was a great-dress housewife,

but also she is great clothes. I mean, this year, Rachel's Zoe, because she is very caftani. She's on real housewife? Yes, because she's caftane. You know, she's caftan-Wil. She's so-cafent-Were. I might have to say Rachel's-Zo for me. Okay, I like that.

Most strategic housewife. Most strategic. there's a lot of strategic housewives. I'm going to have to say Heather, Heather Gay. Okay. She's savvy. Now, her and I don't really get along,

but she is a savvy, smart housewife. Okay. Best at Confessionals. Best at Confession, Thedra Parks. Yes. I even know who that is.

A person you'd want on your side in a fight. The person I'd want on my side in a fight. A housewife? Yeah. I mean, there's so many great housewives that I want on my side in a fight. Let me think who's really amazing.

I mean, there's so many good ones. I'm going to have to say Dorinda Medley because she'll fight to the death. Okay. And then last one is a person you'd never want to be stuck on a cast trip with besides the obvious. I mean, she's ever stuck on a cast trip with.

I mean, I could just say so, I mean, I've been stuck with the worst the fucking worst on a cast trip. Yeah. So that's really it. I'd have to just say, Jennifer Aiden, again. Who's that? She was on my kiss. Oh. And I've been stuck. It was a tough one. I just, I don't think I could take the incessant talking and bragging ever again. Oh. Ever again. Yeah. I mean, I'm just so blessed. I do not have to ever be with her again. Well, I'm proud of you. And by the way, you would think I would say Teresa, but actually her and I got along at one point. Really? Yeah. Yeah. There will be no mending that fence, though. Yeah. No, no mending that fence. But this is the truth. I don't wish any ill on her. Because I really, I did care for her at one point. Yeah. Yeah. So I wish not an ounce of illness for her. That's nice. Because she doesn't have it easy.

Well, I love you. And I love you. I'm so, everything you do is impressive and down to like your shoes. Everything you do, the way you show up in the world, I just adore you. I feel the same about you. I want to be you when I grow up. Okay. And we're not that far apart. No, we are. We are far apart. We're pretty far apart. But you feel younger than me. No, not at all. But I do, but you go to bed early. There was a lot of things I learned from you and is about a lot of times you go to bed very early. And I did incorporate that into my lifestyle. You did? Yes. Good. That's so important. That's so important. And I feel like I'm getting a lot more sleep and I have more energy because of you. Because when you told me, sometimes you go to bed at 7.30. Last night I went to bed at 6.30.

No. Well, I didn't go to sleep at 6.30, but I got into bed because I was so tired for my day. I love that that you know your body and you do that. I think we had such a great conversation. It flows so nicely between you. I know. I could do this all day with you. You too.

And I like getting to know you better, even though I feel like I know you very well. But I like to ask questions and see what you say about them. I love it. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you so much. everyone check out Soray. This beverage is so good. Follow Margaret on social media and keep an eye out for what she's doing next because I feel like you have some really big things coming. Thank you so much for

coming to Off the Vine. I'm Caitlin Bristow and I'll see you next Thursday. And welcome to Pluto Fo. If you know the name of the movie you'd like to see, just stream it for free on Pluto TV where all your blockbuster favorites are landing all summer long. Catch Anchorman, the legend of Ron Burgundy. Fantastic. The Matrix Trilogy. Welcome to the real world. girls. Shut up. Titanic. I'm the king of the world. And so much more. For showtimes, press nothing. They're free 24-7. That is so fetch. On Pluto TV, stream now, pay never. This week on For the Haders, a podcast around the stories that we survive. The world has been watching Kale for half of her life, and it never got the beginning. The cameras showed up at 16.

everything that built her happened before they ever started rolling. This is her story before anyone was watching. Part one of Kale's story is out now on For the Hators. Listen to it wherever you get your podcast.