Off The Vine with Kaitlyn Bristowe - Mayci Neeley | Mormon Wives Season 4, MomTok, & Her New Book

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Starting point is 00:01:33 than you even realize it allows me to keep growing on this podcast and making these episodes the best they can possibly be obviously for you. That's the only favorite I'm going to ever ask. Okay. It truly means the world to me. Thank you. Now let's get into it. Hey, everybody. Welcome to Off the Vine. I'm your host, Caitlin Bristow. And today we have someone who has been at the center of one of the most talked about friend groups on the internet. Obviously, I'm talking about mom talk. She's been part of the viral headlines, the shifting alliances, the dinner table blowups. And somehow through it all, she just constantly stays steady Eddie and is just this calm presence. I don't know if she does it,

Starting point is 00:02:07 but she's a mom. She's also shared deeply personal parts of her fertility journey online. She stepped into a whole new lane by becoming an author and sharing some really heartbreaking stories that gives a lot more context into who she is as a person. She's done it while the internet has opinions about everything from her friendships to her faith, but without further ado, I've never said that before. Macy Neely, welcome to the podcast. watching season two and especially season three, I feel like there were multiple moments, like the Dakota tension, the loyalty conversations, the dinners where everything just kind of spiraled. And you just sit there unbothered. Like you just listen and you don't react and you're

Starting point is 00:02:48 not defensive. You're just like steady eddy. So is this just naturally who you are or are we only seeing a part of the picture? No, I think it's probably just naturally who I am. I think I'm someone who's very in between, like I think, even if like I have two sisters, one of them's a little more like chaotic and like, I want to say like aggressive, but sure. And my other one's like more calm and quiet. And I'm right in the middle. Like I'm in between the two personality wise. And I think I'm like, I'm like, in a lot of situations would I realize like, I have opinions, but I'm not like, I think it's very much see like both equations. Like I am very open minded. So I think that's what keeps me steady because I'm like, I understand that perspective. But I also understand this

Starting point is 00:03:25 perspective. So I think I just, it's just easy for me for some reason. in that regard. And I think I just, nothing shocks me either in this group anymore. Like, every once in a while, yes, but I feel like I'm just like, another day, another day here. It's kind of like the world we're living in, I feel like when I look at the news, I'm like, of course that's happening. Like, no, like, literally. Aliens into the world and this is, we're going, you know, like, that's just, I feel like that's kind of how you are in your friendship group. You're like, of course this is happening. Here we go again. Yeah. Yeah. And I feel like I just don't, like, I grew up having to have like

Starting point is 00:03:55 really thick skin. So I feel like I don't get offended by things. easily either. So I feel like it's kind of nice for reality TV because I'm like, okay, whatever. I do always see both sides of every story. I'm like that in life with politics. I'm like that in friendships. I'm like that in relationships. I'm like that when I watch reality TV. I see everybody's point. It's like a blessing and a curse. Wouldn't you say? It is because people used to always be like, oh, she's a fence writer. She's a fence writer. I'm like, it's not because I'm trying to be. I just like I understand both perspectives. And I'm also not someone who's like, oh, like no one's friends with this girl anymore. So like we're not friends with her. I'm like,

Starting point is 00:04:29 no, like if I want our friendship, I can. Like, it's, we all have individual friendships in this group. So I think you see it sometimes in mom talk where it's like, you became friends with this person. And I'm not friends with her. So it's like, why would you do that? It's like, let everyone have their own relationships. Like it's, yeah, certain things like that like are so confusing to me. It's very interesting when we're all grown adults and we still have like elementary feelings because sometimes I need to be like, how am I navigating this as an adult rather than like my childlike self would? Because like sometimes my feelings get really easily hurt. And then I go, oh. It's not that deep and it's not that personal. Like, I was three weeks postpartum when we started filming. So I, like, literally was, like, wearing a diaper, like, going to show up to film. So, like, I feel like I was just kind of in, like, my survival mode where I didn't feel like much anger or frustration. It was more just like, I'm just trying to stay alive and, like, show up every day and, like, like, trying to get a few hours of sleep. So I think I was pretty calm all season.

Starting point is 00:05:23 I think the only time, only a couple times I got a little more frustrated was I think when Jacob and Jordan, like, were in the house and they got back from London there being like all dushy and I was like okay like I'm good like I'm done like I don't need it around you and then when I face time called Jacob so it was like my husband probably it was like when I was facetaming him with Michaela it wasn't anything like serious where I was like actually mad it's more just like you're really annoying me like it's frustration but I think the postpartum anger is hitting now it was very valid because one your postpartum so anything flies with your feelings yeah all valid and too I remember being annoyed with them too because I'm like you need to stop trying to make dad talk. I think I've said this in every interview with all the

Starting point is 00:06:02 girls I'm done today. I'm like, stop with the dad talk. Let the women have their thing. And yeah, when he got in on that, you're like, you're annoying me. Yeah, I was like, I was the one who told you to go. Like, my husband wasn't going to go to villa because I was so freshly postpartum. He's like, I don't know if I want to go. And like, he wasn't friends with like Dakota or Chase, like if anything, he didn't really like them. And so I was like, honestly, like, just go, like, have fun, like new perspective, like, leave all the stuff that bugs you in the past and just act like it hasn't happened and just go and enjoy it. And then he came back and I was like, maybe I regret saying that. You're like, wait, who are you and who did you just hang out with?

Starting point is 00:06:36 And then they all like, even to this day, we'll call him London Jacob when he starts like being a little spicy. And I'm like, ew. Oh, yeah. You're like, I'm getting the ick. I'm like, ick. Wait, when will we see what happened at the villa? Because obviously that's not going to air on Mormon lives. I honestly have no idea. I think whenever their show comes out, but I have no idea when that is. I have zero information on that. And I'm curious how reverend. They'll be because I know when Mom Talk was on the villa, I watched it and I was like, oh, like, you guys aren't on it like that much. Like, it was mostly like about their cast, obviously. So I'm curious if they'll still do that or if they'll try to incorporate the dads into this season more for their show. I have no idea. I guess we'll have to find out. That's one of my, one of my friends is a producer on that villa show. And so I should just ask it. Oh, well, they probably have all the tea. I know. Well, producers always do. I was going to ask, speaking of producers, have they ever, not push you, but. encouraged you to be more confrontational. Oh, for sure. Yeah. There's been plenty of times where they're like, speak your mind or say this or like or like, get into this more. Like, and you know, and I'm like,

Starting point is 00:07:38 I just feel like I don't have enough energy for it. I'm like, if I really felt passionate about it and it really made me mad, then like, sure I would. But like, I just don't feel like I think that's like at the end of the day. It's that I always say. I've been through some real shit in my personal life to where I'm like this, he said, she said like, wait, me, like fighting. I'm like, I just, I can't be bothered. That's so real. I was speaking to Doughton, who was on charity season of The Bachelorette, and his family had to, like, come here and, you know, barely had anything to their name. And his mom was a single mom and just the way he had to, like, grow up. And he was like, I was like, you were so calm on the show. And, you know, all the other guys were being so jealous. He goes, because I've been through real life shit. And this stuff didn't matter to me. And I was like, that is so fair. That's, I think that's exactly why I do have that like pretty chill perspective is because I've been through so much and I'm like, this is like nothing. Like I really can't, it just can't bug me too much to be honest. Like the only time I feel like I've actually been angry on our show was like last season when I like got mad at Layla.

Starting point is 00:08:40 But that was also like, okay, a lot of context was missing there, but whatever, I won't even get into that. Well, that's reality TV. I got the bad edit. That's all I'll say on that situation. So whatever. Does it ever feel limiting to be perceived as the like, emotionally mature one. Do you feel like you've always got to be that? I do. I think like last season, probably because when it did come out, I had like just given birth. And so I think sometimes seeing

Starting point is 00:09:03 the criticism online being like, oh, she used to be my favorite. But like she's actually just a mean girl. I'm like, okay. So certain things like that. It's like you have one moment. Like that was probably the only moment I've had filming where I kind of was like just pissed off and like spoke exactly how I was feeling in that moment. And like just from that, it's like, I mean, it wasn't a ton of criticism compared to other people so I really can't complain. But I was seeing a lot of comments be like, hurry, Macy, you're so mean. I'm like, okay, whatever. You try filming 12-hour days when you're this pregnant. But I think that's what's frustrating sometimes. I'm like, okay, I'm not always going to be perfect. Like, don't have that expectation. Like, since I'm the level-headed one that usually

Starting point is 00:09:38 is pretty, like, tried and true, like right in the middle, like, I'm going to have moments too where I'm not perfect. So I think that part feels limiting sometimes. But at the end of the day, it's like, I don't care. Because, like, of course, like, it's easy to sit back behind the TV and be like, like, I would never handle it that way. I can't believe you do that. You know what I mean? I'm like, whatever. No one's perfect. I'm not perfect. And I never claimed to be. In season four we see there's like there's always so many dynamics of course, but you wrote a book and it was very important to you. And some people showed up and some people didn't. Watching back like, have you seen the season for you? Because I know there's screeners out there for you. I did. Yeah. Do you see more context and perspective now that you've

Starting point is 00:10:14 watched back for Whitney missing your book launch? Oh yeah. And like I can't remember how that was edited because I don't really remember everything because I watched it so fast. I wasn't upset at all. Like, I don't think, I don't know if it was perceived that way, but I wasn't upset at all in that moment because Whitney called me the night before and was like crying to me. And I was like, don't come. Like, I also have like zero expectation of you coming. Like the fact that you were telling me you were going to come to begin with, I was like, that's wild of you because I know how busy you guys are and like how how like many hours you're putting in for this and you're following your dreams and I'm following mine. So I have zero problem with you not coming. Like the expectation was not there. I think I was like,

Starting point is 00:10:50 If you want to show support, like just post on your story and link my book. Like that's the way to show support. That's what would matter more to me. So like if that's how you want to show support, great. But I had zero expectation. So I wasn't upset at all. And your book crushed. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:11:04 No, I did really well. I was really excited about. I was really, yeah, I was really grateful and excited to be a bestseller. Well, there's a lot that goes into writing a book. I know how much work and effort it takes, especially when opening up about, you know, certain things that you don't want to revisit over and over and have to. media interviews, but do you feel like it healed some wounds for you? I think for sure. I think, I think just, yeah, writing it over time. It was definitely difficult

Starting point is 00:11:29 because, like, when I was writing it, we were filming too. So it was just like, just so chaotic, so heavy and stuff. But doing interviews for the most part, most of them are fairly light. Like, I touched on a lot of things from the book, but like, they're pretty chill for the most part. But it's nothing I'm not used to. I feel like I'm pretty used to talking about my trauma and everything that's happened. But I do have very dark humor. So it's just like sometimes was funny talking about it with people. They're like, are you good? I'm like, probably not, but it's fine. Like, I'm just going to laugh about it. It makes it feel better. You're like, probably not, but am I funny? Yes.

Starting point is 00:11:59 Yeah, but yeah, but that's why I'm hilarious. So, but yeah, the book was really healing to write for sure. And to get this story out there, like for me, it was about the impact more than the healing for me. It's like sharing the story to help others is why I wrote the book to begin with. Like, so that's, that was the most like satisfying part of it all. For those who don't know, could you explain your book like if you want people to still go by it what they can expect reading it? Yeah. So it's low key, a little bit of a trauma dump. But like it's kind of my story from like when I was around 18 until pretty much current day of my like I basically was an abusive relationship. And then I went from that relationship to another one where I got pregnant and then my son's father passed away when I was pregnant. And so just going through the grief but also recovering from an abusive relationship. And then, you know, trying to see the light at the end of the time. which wasn't always easy, but I think the ending of the book is what's, I guess, inspiring to an extent because I kind of, I want to say, have my happily ever after. Like for me, it was like meeting my

Starting point is 00:13:00 husband and that whole story arc of like, you know, mom talk and the show and like all those things. So I think that's why the book, yeah, sure, it's sad. Like, I think it's going to be hard for those who have experienced similar things. But like at the end, I feel like it's something that I would want to read when I was going through it because I'm like, okay, like there's a way out of here. Like my life isn't over because that's how I felt when I was going through. I was like, I can't relate to anyone. I haven't really heard of anyone going through this because I was also living in the time of like perfect Instagram curated feeds in like 2013 and stuff.

Starting point is 00:13:29 And like everyone's perfect. And so I know it's a lot more authentic on social media now as far as like people telling their stories and what they're going through. But that wasn't the case for me. And I think it's also different reading like raw feelings in a book. Yeah. But the whole purpose is like to help other people and hopefully at the end of the day like you can like my mistakes don't define you and you know life life always ends up working its way out it'll get better i looked

Starting point is 00:13:53 into that and i watched some of your interviews and i was just like i'm so proud of her and just what you what you have gone through and how you show up now on reality tv into friends and in your relationship it's just i'm really sorry for things that you've gone through and i'm also really proud of you for um what you've done with your platform and and how you show up oh thank you so much that's really nice of you yeah that's why i had a hard time with chase too not to bring that up but like because well, not only did he shit on me online about it being like, she only has a platform because her son's father died. I'm like, that is like so messed up. That actually makes me feel sick that that he would say something like that. Yeah. So like I think again, it's like like, like, like I

Starting point is 00:14:30 started on social media telling my story because it was a purpose for me. You know, and that's what this book is. It's a purpose because the end of the day like, sure, we all like attention. I don't need that attention. My attention was like, I want to tell this story so that other people who can relate can feel like less alone because I felt so alone when I was going through it. And like, and it's crazy because so many people have stories that it's like you feel alone. But then you hear these stories like, oh my gosh, like there's so many other people out there like me or people who have experienced this and that. And like turns out like we're all more alike than we think, which is kind of cool. But like also traumatic. It's like, um, it's dark and it's like defeating,

Starting point is 00:15:07 but it's also very like validating. It's also validating tomorrow. Like we really are also similar. and we're all just trying to find our place and how we want to live this life. And it gets messy and it gets confusing. And people go through really hard things. And again, like you said, you don't know what other people are going through. And then you write a book and you find this community of people who go like, thank you for doing this. And this happened to me.

Starting point is 00:15:28 And then we all feel less alone and screw chase for saying, moving stupid about that because that's sick. I know we spend so much time and money on skincare and serums and facials and treatments and masks and all of it. We're layering products every night trying to wake up, glowing. But you know what's touching your skin for eight hours straight is your sheets. Okay. That's why switching to Bowling Branch was the ultimate beauty sleep hack for me. Their signature sheets are made from 100% organic cotton and you can feel the quality immediately. They are buttery soft. They're breathable

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Starting point is 00:17:50 subscription and free shipping when you visit Nutrafol.com and enter the promo code Vine. That's Nutraful.com spelled N-U-T-R-A-F-O-L dot com promo code Vine. One thing I feel like that's been consistent since season one is that alliances shift. But somehow you rarely look like you're scrambling. You're not usually like in the loudest conflict, but you're often the person that everyone turns towards in these moments. And like you naturally kind of sit in the middle of the group. And I was saying this kind of in another interview where do you think that neutral ever gets

Starting point is 00:18:30 mistaken for not taking a side? Yes. Oh my gosh. Like again, I think so many people like I've seen comments were like, she's the fence writer, like take aside or like she just stirs the pot and sits back and watches it. happen. I was like, whoa, if you think I'm not, like, smart to do that, then, like, thank you. Because I was not my intention at all. Like, I just, like, I'm on this show. I'm trying to survive. I'm trying to keep the peace. I'm like, everyone love everyone. Like, why are we fighting?

Starting point is 00:18:56 Like, I try my best. And I try not to get, like, directly involved in conflict. And also, I'm someone who's like, I can be friends with whoever I want. So, like, even with, like, the Michaela Whitney situation, I'm like, I was still friends with Whitney for a while. And we had a little bit of falling out. But it was never anything, like, crazy is more just, like, less communication. And so I feel like I'm still someone who's like, if I want to be friends with someone, I'm going to just because you're not friends of them doesn't mean I have to be. Like, unless that they did you something so dirty where it was like, hey, that's like really messed up and that's not like qualities I want a friend. But that didn't happen with Whitney. So Michaela and her were like feuding, right?

Starting point is 00:19:28 And like, you know, Michaela just knew to an extent like I can't even bend to Macy because she's like, she's still kind of like in the middle of it. And I'm like, I don't want to hear anyone complain. Like, I'm good. Like, so I was really happy when that friendship made up like between the two of them because it felt my heart. just felt warm and fuzzy after. Oh, I love that. I mean, season one friendships look very different from season three friendships. So who are you closest to in season four? Michaela, for sure. Like, Michaela and Jessie. And it's funny because season one, it didn't make it seem like me and Michaela were close, but we've actually been like really close friends since 2020. I actually knew her

Starting point is 00:20:04 before I knew Whitney. But like me and Whitney hung out a lot. Like, Michaela's going through her skin issues and stuff like that. So I probably saw Whitney a little bit more during that time. But like us three were like super close friends, like group chats, talking every day and stuff like that. But I feel like that friendship wasn't really shown season one with Michaela, like as much like me and her. So I'm like, I wonder if it's like surprising to people that all of a sudden. It's like, oh my gosh, their besties overnight. No, we were friends since like 20. So it's really interesting to even watch that and be like, oh, that's interesting. Like, and obviously it's really close to Whitney the whole time too. But yeah, definitely Michaela. And then Jesse, who I wasn't as close with season one.

Starting point is 00:20:36 Like I feel like over time me and Michaela have gotten like really close with her. And yeah, it's been like really fun. Yeah, I love Jesse. And how do you feel about Whitney doing like dancing with the stars and now being on Broadway? Do you guys ever worry that like the band's not going to get back together? Honestly, no. I actually never really think about it. I think it's really like, I mean, I'm like, everything will just work out. It's like how I always think of it. But we're dancing with the stars and like Chicago especially. This is like so crazy. I was saying this in a different interview. But like when I saw Whitney after Chicago, we got to go and like backstage. I literally hugged for and like started, I started to try to talk about it.

Starting point is 00:21:15 I started like crying. I was like, oh my gosh. Like, am I okay? Like, I think it was just like, it made me emotional to see her doing like this thing that she's always wanted. She's like so passionate. She's always wanted to be an actress the last few years. It was just so full circle.

Starting point is 00:21:27 I was like, I can't fully like we're here like to support you like in this crazy opportunity. Like Broadway. Like this is crazy. Like it hit me there. And I was like, I don't know. I'm just like so proud of her. I think it's just absolutely incredible. And like, I don't know.

Starting point is 00:21:39 I just love to see my. friends like thriving and doing what makes them happy. I just think it's so inspirational. I agree. That's why when she, when Whitney said like she was coming back to mom talk only to get on dancing with the stars, I was like, mad respect. I loved it because I was like, hey, that's a girl who's saying she wants to go after what she wants and that she really, she's got like this mindset of I know where I'm supposed to be and that this is what it takes. I want to do it.

Starting point is 00:22:05 And I don't think she meant it in a way. We're like, oh, you guys. But it was more like, I had a hard time the first couple of seasons. I want to come back and I want to do big things. And then to now see her like, oh, she really wanted that. And she really worked hard for that. And to see her shine in that moment on Broadway and then being like, that's my friend. It's really cool. I think too when she came back and she was like, I'm doing it financing with the stars.

Starting point is 00:22:27 Like we all knew that, but it wasn't communicated out loud at the time. So people were like frustrated because we know you're here for that. But I think deep down like when we had that conversation where she's like, I'm going to my own mom talk. There was more to that conversation. Obviously that like wasn't shown because it was like a long. It was long. I could just see it in her eyes, though. I'm like, I think she's here for more than business. Like, she wants friendships. But it's just like a tricky thing to navigate. Like you could tell that she wanted it really bad. Like I could see it in her eyes and like the hurt. But I think she wanted to protect her heart, to be honest. It's hard to be like, oh, I want friendships, but like maybe not everyone wants them back. But like I think it was a thing. I felt like eventually the group would mend. I just just had to let it play out. I'm like I can't have any control in it because then it's just going to forcing it won't work. It has to just happen naturally. And I think. over time it did.

Starting point is 00:23:12 Yeah. And I feel like same thing with friendship groups. Like maybe you could add another lady to the mom talk and it can evolve. Like I see people come and go from that show. I'm like, could I be a Mormon maybe? Like come on down. Come be Mormon. Could I just have a fun role where I just show up

Starting point is 00:23:28 for one episode and like a little cameo? Yeah. That would be fun. And you could be like the crazy one and getting with the crazy one that drinks were like, I'm kidding. Yes. I just get black. I'm so funny because I'm always, people do always send me messages like that the haters, of course. And they're like, you just need attention so bad. And I'm like, I feel like I just love entertaining.

Starting point is 00:23:53 Like I feel like that's what I kind of understand. Whitney's aspect or point of view too because I'm like, I just love to, I like to make people laugh. I like to entertain. I like be on sometimes. And if that means I like attention, I don't think that's a bad thing. I think as long as I'm a good person to my core. and, you know, like, I just don't think it's sad to want or like attention. Well, I think a lot of people like probably want attention to, they just are embarrassed to admit it.

Starting point is 00:24:14 Like, at least you admit it. You know what I mean? People who are saying that, they're probably just jealous like because they want attention. They're not getting it. Well, because sometimes I'm just a freak too. Like the way I grew up and how I was able to, I was just champion for being my weirdo little quirky self. So now when I do it online, it's like, oh, she's desperate for attention. I'm like, it's actually just me. And I like to make people laugh. And clearly I like to make people talk to. And I don't think that's a bad thing. And also, like, your career. Like, this is what you do for a job. Like, of course. Like, hello. I'm just being a businesswoman, okay? Yeah, exactly.

Starting point is 00:24:47 I think that's mad of respect. They're just jealous because I'm not getting in the bag, you know? I grew up with that they're just jealous, mom. So I feel like I just don't care. I'm like, sorry. Is there any one of the cast do you feel like it's unfairly villainized? Well, because let's see, like what villains tell me really had, though, like, realistically?

Starting point is 00:25:05 it was like Whitney into me. I mean, there's always certain situations, even like season one where it's like when people like made a big deal about like fruity pebbles and stuff. And I'm like, well, there is like some context missing there. You know, like, so I'm like, that's unfair. Like there's been, even for Demi in season two, like, there's a couple things where I'm like, oh, that was a little unfair. Like she did do a lot of the things that she did and said things.

Starting point is 00:25:25 So like, yes, she still was a villain. But there's a couple things. I'm like, oh, that sucks. Are you guys allowed to like if let's say there wasn't context and you're like, oh, I I'm sick of people saying this. Are you allowed to just go on your social media and give contacts? I mean, yeah, I think so. It's probably frowned upon.

Starting point is 00:25:42 I mean, I haven't done it. I'm like, I haven't done it probably wouldn't because I'm like, you don't really want to be like breaking forth walls too. Unless if it's like that's like so detrimental to like maybe you're being canceled for that I could see myself trying to do that. But like I, there's no reason to at the end of the day. There's always going to be critics. There's people who love you, people who hate you.

Starting point is 00:26:02 So I feel like if it's something that's not that big of a deal, just like leave it. It's fine. I got to talk about the husbands. The husband dynamic. Oh my gosh. It's just so funny to me. Do all of the husbands genuinely get along? For the most part, I feel like they do. I feel like my husband's like really chill. Like he's kind of like me. We're both kind of like whatever. Like we're pretty chill. So is your baby. Like every time I see you and your husband and a baby in a room, I'm like, everyone just your chill vibes are like immaculate. Yeah. No, I feel like we're both just like, yeah, like he's more chill than I am. So like he's really relaxed. And like, like not very confrontational. I think Jesse's asked me this the other day. I'm like, I don't think

Starting point is 00:26:38 Jacob's even ever like yelled at me before. Like I don't think we've ever even gotten to fight where we're like yelling. Like we've both like raised our voice like once in a fight. And I'm not saying we're perfect because we're definitely not. Like we argue. But like he's just like a calm guy is what I'm saying. Like he doesn't really get too upset. But the guys I feel like for the most part get along. Like at least my husband gets along with most of them. I think there's ones who we mean doesn't like as much as others. But I think for the most part, they're all pretty chummy. Do you think that Taylor Frankie Paul will be bringing someone to the dad talk? I mean, I guess we'll have to wait and see.

Starting point is 00:27:09 But I mean, I think we can make some good assumptions there. I think that's, I'm like so intrigued to find out what happens and see if like now that person, obviously, they're signing up for the Bachelorette, but then they're also signing up for life after that on TV of the Mormon wives. And they, it's like kind of scary because I'm like, obviously you don't want somebody that wants fame. but in a way they kind of have to want it a little bit to be a part of it. Exactly. That's what's tricky. It's like, like, obviously they're going on like a TV show.

Starting point is 00:27:38 They have to want some aspect of it. Like, whatever capacity that may be, like, I'm not sure. I wonder, like, if there could be some guys who are going on being like, I've seen her on TV. She's crazy and wild. Like, I love her and I want to try it out. There can also be some of those, too, who maybe aren't like in it, maybe for the fame as much, but in it for the girl. I don't know. I mean, I'm hoping that they're there for the right reasons, but I'm always a skeptic.

Starting point is 00:28:01 of these kind of men. So I mean like, I would have my guard up. Like if I were her in that situation, my guard would be all the way up. Like, I don't care who it is. Especially given her history and just like how everything was going down right before she left with Dakota and the feelings are still there. And I'm assuming he's going to show up on this season. But they also have to know that he's going to be in their life. Dakota is the father of one of her babies. So that dynamic is going to be so hard and interesting to watch play out because of we all as a collective have seen the tension and the toxic and the love and the push and the pull and then knowing that person who she ends up with is going to have to come into that as well it's going to take a very strong person but that's what she deserves to

Starting point is 00:28:43 yeah like good luck it's a lot and then you have to handle all of us too is like not oh mary or you dealing with baby daddies you're also dealing with mom talk and that's probably not an easy task in itself so everybody has opinions but also so does the internet and i don't know I honestly don't know. Does Taylor care about what the internet thinks? I don't think so. I mean, I don't think so. I do think she likes validation from the internet though. Like, I feel like she goes to the internet for validation over friends sometimes. And I think I just relating that to the CMA gate. But because I get my validation from friends offline. Like someone texts me, congrats or this and that. That means more to me than them like in my comments or of a post or something.

Starting point is 00:29:24 Like I don't even really look at the comments most of the time because I just like we don't have time. I'm trying to just get a post out every once in a while. I'm like trying my best to keep up. I don't know how you guys do everything that you do. I was saying to Jesse, I'm like people run businesses. You're writing books. Somebody's going off to read The Bachelorette. Somebody's getting a modeling career.

Starting point is 00:29:40 Someone's on Broadway while you're all still trying to film the show. Like it is so much that you cannot take on another thing that does not, you know, bring you any sort of internal piece. Because if you have time for downtime, choose something that protects your piece over going online to read anything validation there is a big known. know. It's a big no-no. Speaking of what the internet says, what is the most untrue assumption that fans have ever made about you? I kept seeing random things about being a mean girl. I'm like, I am like not mean. Like I feel like, especially if you know me in real life too, I feel like I'm

Starting point is 00:30:12 really fair. I feel like I'm like bragging me. I'm really fair. I'm really nice. I'm just kidding. But that's what it's sounding like what I'm saying it. But I feel like I'm pretty chill. I think I'm really fair with people. Like I get people the benefit of the doubt. Like I feel like I'm pretty nice. So like, I don't know why. That one bugged me. Like, I feel like, tuning my own horn right now, but I do feel like seeing that a lot pissed me off because I was like, I am not mean. Like, I think the only time you're mean is on the pickleball court. Yeah, that's true. That is true. I watched that back though, and I think it was like Dakota won. I was like, that's the only thing you won in your life, Dakota. And I was like, oh, I watched that back. I was like, damn,

Starting point is 00:30:50 that was kind of rude. Your competitive spirit came out and I can always appreciate a competitive spirit. Yeah, I definitely have a competitive spirit when it comes to racquet sports. I have a competitive spirit in everything that I do. And I think that's okay as well. Everyone, I actually watched something the other day that said people, like, it's 0.01% of people that actually go after what they want. And they do compete with other people. And it doesn't have to be in a way of comparison. And they're better than me.

Starting point is 00:31:15 It can be like, I'm inspired by them. And I'm going to go get what I want because if they could do it, I could do it. And I was like, that's how I feel. And that's why the 0.01% of people get it. because the other people are sitting there going, well, I still love the same, but like, if it's not meant for me, whatever it is. Like, I also kind of comfort myself in those moments with cheesy sayings of like, what's meant for me won't miss me. But also I'm like, that's also light and a fire under my ass and I'm going to go get it. You know what I mean?

Starting point is 00:31:42 Oh, I'm the same way. Like, I guess for example, too, like even when before mom talk, before I had like a career, a big career on social media, like I would just like, I would like drive around this like neighborhood that I love these like huge houses where these people are probably making. millions every year, right? And I'm like, instead of being like, oh, like, you're so rich, like, screw them. I'm like, that's going to be me. Like, I'm going to work my ass off. I'm going to get that house. Like, I'm going to do it for myself. I get motivated by seeing other people's success too. And I'm like, cool, I want to be like that person or like I'm going to work my ass up to like get there. And I feel like for me in my head, like there are no limits. Like I see something. I know if I want it bad enough, I'm going to have it. Like I will get there. Like in my note section from like,

Starting point is 00:32:25 it's like 2018 or something before even really started my career on social media or I'll tell you one half of what I wrote because the other half hasn't happened yet and I like need to protect it. But like the first half was like saying how was going to write a book. Like I am going to write a book. Like it's going to reach like thousands of people, whatever. Like I had written that before I even knew what was going to happen or how it's going to come to be. So call it manifest and call whatever you want. But I'm very much someone who believes like if I know it in my soul. I think about it. I believe in it. and I know I can do it. It's going to happen.

Starting point is 00:32:53 It's not a matter of if it's a matter of when. And that's like kind of my mindset with a lot of things. That to me is manifesting though because manifesting isn't just being like, I want this and I'm going to get it. Like it's actually putting yourself in positions and situations that you want to get there and like knowing it and believing it and seeing it and going after it. And it takes a lot of hard work and a lot of patience to get there. I mean, I also like will have moments where I'm like,

Starting point is 00:33:17 yeah, I'm going to quit life and do everything. I'm going to put. Everyone does. Yeah. And then the next time. It's part of the process. Honestly, you have to kind of go through all of it. Like, even before the show happened, like, there was moments where I was like, oh, like, that scares me.

Starting point is 00:33:31 Like, I've never wanted to do reality TV. Like, I don't know if I want to do this, you know? And then in my head, I'm like, you have to take these opportunities. And like, if I don't like it, then I can just leave. Like, so I'm very big on like, take the opportunity. If it doesn't fit and it's not serving you or if it's not working out, leave or like get out, you know? So I think that's a big thing. imagine if I said I was too scared to do the show. Like imagine. You know, like, the show has propelled

Starting point is 00:33:55 so many things career-wise that I'm like, I can't imagine if I didn't take that opportunity. I don't have many favorite parts of the new year, but I try and look for the little things in the new year, like setting little tiny goals and making some 2026 resolutions. Like, sure, I've got the usual read more and hit the gym and take over my wellness journey and finally get jelly roll on my podcast. Come on, please. But this year, the top goal is just be comfy. Just be comfy. That's where bombas comes in. They are bringing serious comfort to all of my everyday go-tos. If you're into sports, they're all new bombas sport socks are truly amazing. I never am a runner, but I like to do a Berries boot camp class because I can run for like two miles. And these socks are perfect for that. They're

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Starting point is 00:36:43 Quince.com slash fine. My next question would be, what if the show disappeared tomorrow? No cameras, no contracts. Who would still be in your life and what would you be doing? Honestly, I still think, like, majority of the girls in the show would still be my life. I think we'd still be friends. I think I'd be focusing more on running my businesses, like this year is a year where I want to try to diversify my incomes.

Starting point is 00:37:10 Like, I'm looking into, like, investing in other businesses and things like that that excite me and light me up, which I will say I'm, I think I enjoy the business aspect. behind the scenes more than even being in front of the camera. Like, I love, I love the work aspect of like grinding and creating a business and like blowing it up and figuring out how I'm going to do that. So I feel like I've been working on so much behind the scenes lately that I'm really excited about. So I think I just continue to work on that step. But like for me, I feel like the show, yeah, it's fun. It's fun with my friends and it's like it's mom talk. But it's also like an engine to propel certain things behind the scenes that I'm interested in that I want to grow like bigger.

Starting point is 00:37:45 Because at the end of the day, like realistically, you're going to make your money. from your businesses. Like, I don't want to be on social media in 10 years being like, go buy this or whatever. Like, I want to hopefully have all my businesses online so I can live like a comfortable lifestyle and do just things that I'm passionate about and excited about. Well, and I think I really love how you just show up online. You know, like it doesn't feel like you're just selling us on stuff. You're talking about fertility journeys and stuff that you get your own little platform where you get to be part of this fun show and it shows, you know, little snippets and a version of you, but on your TikTok and Instagram, you get to be incredibly open and have the other

Starting point is 00:38:23 side of the story of it. And I know with your fertility journey, they didn't really center it on the show. Was that your decision? Or would you have wanted to be documented more? Definitely not my decision. I think, I mean, we filmed a lot for it. It just wasn't shown. Like, we filmed a lot of doing like first PIO shot doing this, doing that, like different appointments. They were filmed that just wasn't shown. So it's like, that's like, that's like, that's, the hard part is like doing things like that that I think would also be impactful and cool to see, but it just gets the cut. It's hard to know. It's hard to know what's going to make it and not make it, but certain situations like that. I'm like, that is why I try to film things on my own too.

Starting point is 00:39:00 So then I have it or I can share it later. Like I did film a lot of the fertility journey, but I couldn't post it until the show came out. And by then I'm like, well, it's not really like as relevant now because I'm like fully pregnant. So like, um, right. But I did save some videos and post them later and stuff just like to show part of the journey which was really cool because I think that part is really relatable and I think sharing struggles and things like that are what makes a reality show a reality show like this is what we're currently going through like it's not we're not always just like fighting like majority of the time like we're like giggling laughing having the best time like it's just not always shown because it's not as interesting right as like people

Starting point is 00:39:36 having conflict and so like I know it's that is what people need to know too because we get that criticism a lot though it's like they're all just mean girls. They're girls who peaked in high school and they're just mean, you know, right? And so it's like, but you don't see a lot of it, you know? Yeah. I just feel like that must be hard to have something that emotional happening while other storylines kind of take the spotlight where you're like, oh. Yeah. That's got to be. Trust me. I watch it back and I'm like, so this made it, but like this couldn't possibly. Okay. Oh my. All right. Well, it's not my profession. I'm not an editor. I'm not, I don't know. I don't know. Like, it's not in my control. And maybe this made more sense.

Starting point is 00:40:10 I don't know. But again, it's like, that's why I'm glad to have like the book, right? Because I was able to tell my story. Even like I was saying this in an earlier interview, but like me and Michaela going to the crash site and that story season two, I filmed six other scenes for that storyline, but only one thing made it in. Like it was only five minutes of one episode. So I was like, I'm, I'm so confused. So I was happy when I watched season three that Michaela's story was kind of touched on like in four different episodes, like a few different scenes and like each episode leading. So I was like, okay, that makes sense. Like you're telling the story. So I was a little frustrated, I will say, when that happened. But at the same time, it's like, I had my book come out. And so I'm like, maybe it was a good thing because it didn't tell enough of the story to where people are actually going to be able to read about it now and get the whole story, not just a small piece. Well, that's it. Just like a book exposes thoughts and feelings. And that can feel scarier in a way too. But your book is so vulnerable. What do you think the most vulnerable part of writing that book was for you? Just sharing about like abuse and stuff that like still rattles me. Because like that was also talking. talked about on our show, but it just didn't make the cut, which is fine because I wrote about it in the book, but it's like sharing those parts that people probably didn't know really at all. And it's like, why are you? Why are you like so crazy about Tara in Dakota's relationship? Why can you do this? And it's like, I feel like when people read the book, it's like, oh, it makes

Starting point is 00:41:23 sense. Like, why she is a way she is. And so I feel like those parts are very vulnerable to write because not a lot of people know those parts. I honestly like everything. I'm like, I ain't going to lie. Like, I looked like most of it was like, damn, like sometimes I'm like, sometimes I forget people are going to read this. Like, there's a lot of coming of age stories. Like I'm talking about like making out with my boyfriend for the first time and not really. knowing what's going on with my body and things like that that like aren't typically talked about. Like, and I think I shared it because I'm like, yeah, it's kind of funny and silly. But it's also because like growing up in a very conservative religious household, like,

Starting point is 00:41:52 it wasn't talked about. It's like I thought it was like dying or something. Like, what's wrong with me? Like, am I going to die? Like I always thought like something was wrong. But I'm like, oh, it's just like a natural part of like womanhood and like growing up. I know. Right.

Starting point is 00:42:03 Yes. I just like those are vulnerable to right. But like also kind of fun. I was just thinking like it's just so crazy that you are taught like certain religions or certain people who grew up and feel like either a sense of shame or like this isn't what's supposed to happen. Like that must be so confusing to somebody going through all that. And I don't know. I just think I love that you did that book just because I really always think when people write stories of like what happened to them, what they've gone through, it's,

Starting point is 00:42:30 it can be cathartic. It can be therapeutic for you. It can also be extremely challenging to open those kinds of wounds again. And that to me doesn't go unnoticed. And, you know, shows. can be edited. A book doesn't, I mean, edited for like spelling and grammar purposes, but it must have felt really good to have full control over your narrative. Yeah. No, for sure. I think that was really freeing. So like, looking back at things, I'm like, anyone and everyone who's on our show will get salted being like, wait, like, where was this? You know what I mean? Like, I know we, Michaela's season two, we're like, where were our freaking swamp outfits that we, like, it was like the funniest thing and they like didn't put it in. We were like, we were so salty.

Starting point is 00:43:06 You were like, that was the funniest part of New Orleans. Like, they cut it out. So I think, like, things like that, like, being able to control the narrative of, like, your story, especially is, like, even more important. So I look back on those moments and being like, oh, why wasn't that in the show? But then I'm like, well, I got to write it in the book. And to me, that's more important and more impactful than it being on the show. This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance.

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Starting point is 00:43:49 So quick, it's so simple, and saving money is always a smart move. So give it a try after this episode at progressive.com, progressive casualty insurance company and affiliates not available in all states or situations. Prices vary based on how you buy. I have a few like behind the scenes questions just as like someone who's experienced reality TV. I've seen kind of like being a contestant, being the lead. I've seen being behind the curtain of being a host. So I always have questions like this.

Starting point is 00:44:21 But like our conversations, when do you sit down at one of those dinners? Do you already know what's going to be brought up? For them, I guess it depends on what's going on. Like who's fighting? Like what's the situation? I think we'll naturally ask each other questions to based on like what we're hearing what's going on. Like there are certain things that I think we'll like. find out in the fly sometimes I'm like, oh, I didn't know that this was going on or this was happening.

Starting point is 00:44:42 Like, you're watching it back. There are certain things that I watched. I was like, oh, I didn't know, like, this was actually going on because maybe I'm not as close with that person and then we don't talk as much or whatever. But I think, for the most part, I think most things happen naturally on the show. Like, it's not like, everything just kind of happens naturally. I even know how to say it. Like, it's, I was looking for a word. I think I think staged. Like, I think people sometimes think like, like, I think people sometimes like my, I wish the situation was fake. I truly do. I wish. Well, even if the situation isn't fake, have there been moments that you'd have to, like, relive something and revisit it for camera? And you're like, oh, I've already emotionally moved past this. We have to do this again. Like, for example, like visiting Eric's crash site, it's like, I didn't necessarily want to do it. It wasn't like, I want to go there. It's like, they're like, hey, like, can we give you an idea? I think this would be like a great thing for you and your healing. And like, so I'd say more so it's like sometimes you get a push to do something that maybe you wouldn't normally do on a regular basis. And even then, it's like, we'd be like, was something that I told him I needed to do. I was just too scared to do it. So they're like,

Starting point is 00:45:41 oh, great. Like, you're going to do it then. And honestly, I'm really happy that I did because it was actually really beneficial and helpful. So I would say more so like moments like that, for example, it's like leading, but it's not like everything was real. Like every single thing that happened in that situation was completely real authentic. They're just kind of filming it. Like standing back. There's no talking points. There was no nothing. It was just like we're just there having that experience. I can't imagine that like I lost a best friend and I still feel like sometimes I feel silly about the grief that I feel however many years later it's been over 20 years and like even for me I drove by the site where her accident happened and I didn't mean to and it wasn't even that long ago

Starting point is 00:46:21 and I was like the way it still gut punches you and it's like that that was my best friend. I can't imagine like just and to relive that on camera and I hope I hope I hope. you I think you do, but like, I hope you had like a really beautiful support system that like holds you through that. Yeah. No, it ended up being a blessing in disguise for sure. But yeah, no, like every, it's actually March now, but every March because he died in March, I, it's like a cloud is over me. Like yeah, it's been 10 years. So it's like, I still feel that. Like there's probably not a day that I still don't think about him, you know? So even though it's 10 years later, I'm happy. I'm in a great relationship. You still think about it. You still, I still feel grief and like sadness, you know?

Starting point is 00:47:01 because I think it's just human nature and I think I always will. Yeah, I don't think there will be times where I'm like, yeah, I can't believe that. Yeah, in the past. Like I think I still will always have that and that connection because probably too because I have a child with him. If I didn't, then maybe it'd be different. But, you know, you see your son and now my son's like pitching in baseball and he was a pitcher. So it's like you see those similarities to where it's like, oh, like it's kind of sad, you know.

Starting point is 00:47:23 So it's still like gut-wrenching and beautiful at the same time that you don't even know how to process something like that. But that really, I'm always a broken record with some things I say, but it just goes to show that it's everybody going through it. Like grief just can look so different for so many people and it doesn't need to come in any sort of form or time or whatever it looks like to you is how it is meant to be. And it's just like it's never ending. It's changing and never ending. And it's, I'm so glad that you have your son to see him through as well. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:47:52 That's amazing. These are just quick, quick hit listener questions. And then I will let you go. And honestly, thank you for having that conversation with me, because I know that's probably not easy either. And, you know, when they say the body keeps the score, like March would be very hard for you. And it doesn't. No, it is. Every year. I'm like, why do I feel like depressed? I don't even know why. And I'm like, oh, it's March. Okay. Yeah, it's March. It's really like your body just knows instinctually. That's a real thing. Even like it's listening. I mean, this is completely different. But Jesse talking about how she divorced her last husband five years in. Now she's five. years in with Jordan, she's having these same feelings again. And it's like confusing to be like, is this just trapped trauma in my body or am I really feeling this? It's a lot. And we're, again, we're all just humans trying to figure out life. Do our best. Yeah. Do our best. Okay. These are,

Starting point is 00:48:44 these are some hard-hitting questions from listeners. Somebody wanted to know who did you vote for on Dancing with the Stars. I actually did vote for both of them equally every single week. And then once Jen was voted off, I voted for Whitney, obviously all 10. It's 10, right? right thing to do. Yeah. Yeah. It was completely equal. I'm like, I literally saved my voting thing because someone's going to call me out or like I thought like Whitney or Jen like in this season would call us out too. And I'm like, I'm ready. Like I got my receipts. I know who I voted for. What show would you most want to do a crossover with? I was just talking about this one. But I don't think it's in our network, but traders. I just watched traders and it was like so entertaining that I was like, dang. I feel like I would,

Starting point is 00:49:24 I feel like I'd be a really good faithful, obviously, because that's my personality. But I'm like, I think I can make a good traitor too because like I'm competitive and like exactly so I think that that would be a really fun one but I'm honestly open for like any interesting show but I literally had this conversation a couple days ago but like I was talking like amazing race would be really cool but I'm like as soon as it's like eat a cockroach or like jump off this building I'd be out I think so I don't think I'd be that good to be honest I could jump off a building but I couldn't eat something I have a fear of very very very bad phobia of throw up so if it was like making me oh my gosh I I have that too. I have that same phobia. I'm like, move.

Starting point is 00:50:02 No, same. So I couldn't do it for that reason. I think it's going to make me sick. Okay, moving on then, because I can't do it. The last one, a listener wanted to know who is the most different off camera. Uh-oh. Okay, let me think about this one. Maybe Zach. I'm going to choose a man, so I'm going to choose Zach then. Sure, we'll do Zach. We'll go with that one. We'll go with that one. Well, I honestly just thank you so much for coming on and having such an honest and open conversation with me. And I know it's not always easy to just like keep talking about the same thing over and over when it's heavy stuff and like light and drama and all the things. But, you know, and so much of it is already public. But I just always appreciate the way that you show up online and in real life. And I think there's a real strength in being steady, which you are.

Starting point is 00:50:46 And I know a lot of women listening are going to just really relate to that. So I'm excited for everyone to see season four. It was amazing. I watched it all in two days. And I think everyone else will do. Oh my gosh. Well, thank you for having me. I had a lot of fun.

Starting point is 00:50:57 Good. And tell everyone where they could buy your book and follow you. Okay, yeah. So my book told you so is kind of everywhere the books are sold. It's like Amazon, Barnes & Noble, Target, all the things. And then it's at Macy Neely on social media. Pluto TV has thousands of free movies and TV shows. You swear. If I'm mine, I'm done. This is the mindset. Free.

Starting point is 00:51:25 This is the mantra. Free. This is the movie. With movies like Interstellar, Dreamgirls and Gladiator. Are you not entertained? And TV shows like Survivor, SpongeBob SquarePants, the Fairly Odd Parents and Ghosts. Pluto TV is always free. Hazzo!

Starting point is 00:51:44 Pluto TV, stream now, pay never. Hi, I'm Lauren. And I'm Chandler. And we're the host of Pop Apologist Podcast, a weekly podcast devoted to celebrity gossip, Hollywood Deep Dives, Real Housewives, Drama, and Anything and Everything, Taylor Swift. We're two sisters who make no apologies for our love of pop culture and the fact that A-listers might mean more to us than each other. Join us on your favorite podcast app every Wednesday for Pop Apologists. Pop Apologists, your new favorite sister and celebrity podcast.

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