Off The Vine with Kaitlyn Bristowe - Mel Robbins | Mastering the ‘Let Them’ Mindset to Start Your New Year! (REPEAT)

Episode Date: January 1, 2026

#907. REPEAT OUR GREATEST HIT EPISODES:In this transformative episode, Kaitlyn sits down with the legendary Mel Robbins, bestselling author and motivational powerhouse, to explore the game-changing “Let Them” theory. Mel opens up about hitting rock bottom and rebuilding her life, one 5-second decision at a time. From using The Bachelor as a teaching tool for her kids (hilarious!) to redefining failure, letting go of control, and embracing boundless possibilities, this episode is packed with life-changing insights. Plus, Mel issues a heartfelt challenge to Kaitlyn about her music career, tackles rapid-fire questions, and shares her blueprint for reclaiming your power. Get ready for the mindset shift you didn’t know you needed!If you’re LOVING this podcast, please follow and leave a rating and review below! PLUS, FOLLOW OUR PODCAST INSTAGRAM HERE!Thank you to our Sponsors! Check out these deals!Boll & Branch: Discover a softness beyond your wildest dreams with Boll & Branch. Get 15% off your first order plus free shipping at bollandbranch.com/vine15, with code vine15.EPISODE HIGHLIGHTS: (5:34) – The “Let Them” Theory Explained: A game-changing mindset shift to release control and embrace peace.(22:22) – Mel’s Rock Bottom Moment: Hear the powerful story of how she turned her life around.(42:43) – Interrupting Negative Thoughts: Mel shares a simple yet transformative question to shift your mindset.(53:56) – Reclaiming Your Power: Discover how to stop giving away your energy and take back control of your life.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

This episode of Off the Vine is brought to you by Bowling Branch. Discover a softness beyond your wildest dreams with Bowling Branch. Get 15% off your first order plus free shipping at B-O-L-L-A-N-D-Branch.com slash Vine 15 with code Vine 15. You're listening to Off the Vine with Caitlin Bristow. Hey, Vino's, real quick, if you are listening right now, which obviously you are or you wouldn't be hearing this, you hit the subscribe or follow button on whatever platform you're on. Please, that one simple thing helps more than you even realize. It allows me to keep growing on this podcast and making these episodes the best they can possibly be obviously for you. That's the only favorite I'm going to

ever ask. Okay. It truly means the world to me. Thank you. Now let's get into it. So I made a decision not to swear on the podcast even though I have like a trucker's mouth in real life. Yeah. Because I notice something. Number one, if there's one thing that women, get criticized for it's swearing yeah and it was all over the comments and I'm like if there this is something that's within my control and it's the one thing people bitch about yeah second thing is so many of our audience members listen with kids kids that's so I remember when I first started podcasting which was eight years ago I started my podcast really yes and I remember that was one one of the main like comments that I was getting was that people were

listening with their kids in the car. Right, right, right. And I was like, well, I'm also talking about inappropriate things. Like, why are you listening to the show with kids in your car? That's when people came up to me, because I was on Bachelor, Bachelorette, and when they were like, oh, I watched with my daughter, who's like 12, I was like, oh, God, why? Don't watch. Actually, yes. No, as a mom, so my daughters are 25, 23, son who's 19, we would watch the Bachelor for things not to do. no i'm serious i would watch us to basically go and then i i also did a reality show that was created by endemal in 51 minds yes yes and so it never aired oh no really but being in that situation which a lot of people don't know because i don't really talk about this it was really

interesting to understand that when a cast is sequestered and everybody has a producing crew and you are separated from the outside world and you start almost trauma bonding with the producer that is whispering in your ear. Plus, I started to teach the girls. Look, notice, when you guys go in for the first night, it's light, and then it gets dark, and when everybody walks out of the house, they've been drinking all night, and it's daytime. Yeah. So now you guys are 24 hours into a show. You're exhausted. They've jacked up your emotions. And so I use The Bachelor as a complete teaching tool. I love this because more people need to watch through the lens of you because that's so everyone's always so critical of how emotional people are on the first night and why are they acting like

this? And I'm like, nobody could understand. It is a social experiment and nobody could understand it until you're, unless you have an experience in some way or you can see it from that lens. But I always was like, I'd watch it as a fan. And then when I went on it, I was like, oh my gosh. And then I was the contestant and then I was the lead and then I hosted a season and just every time seeing a little bit more behind the curtain I was like so would you give yourself like a little pep talk like I'm not doing this this time or I'm not going to fall prey to that kind of thing oh I my whole pep talk to myself before I even went on the show was I am not going to cry which was L.O. because I cried on like the second week but I was like I'm not going to you held out that long I did how the hell did you

not cry I remember people online saying holy crap Caitlin cried if Caitlin's crying it must be bad because I had held out so long it might have even been like week three I don't know but I just I was at a weird place in my life where I had I had hit absolute rock bottom at like 27 and I did such intense therapy for two years and I had come into like the most confident version of myself and I was like if they put me on the show two years ago I would have been a completely different person but because I had done so much work and I found myself again and I'd like rebuilt my life and then I went on the show so I had a just different head on my shoulders for the experience and I chose to think of it as therapy because every day

you're talking to a producer who's talking about your emotions you're talking about past relationships things that have happened to you why you are the way you are and I was like I'm just going to take this as a little like free therapy every day and it helped my mindset do that and I just was like I want everybody at home that are my friends and family to watch and be able to like, oh, she did not hold back that as Caitlin to a T. Like, I didn't want to perform or be trying to be someone else. So you didn't let the environment manipulate you. I mean, it did get to me eventually. But I tried, I was very aware of it. And I think that actually got me in trouble as the Bachelorette because I was so aware of it, they had to work extra hard to manipulate me. And then by

the end of it, I was like, what do you want me to say? I'll do and say anything. Just like, get me out of here. And I think that just, I don't know if you watch my season, but it was a doozy. You You should definitely have watched that one as a tool of what not to do for your children. Well, I think Bachelor Nation more than anybody needs to let them theory. Oh, gosh. My mom's best friend just got Let Them Tattooed on her yesterday. Really? Yes.

I'm like, I feel like that's like a tattoo trend right now. It is if you turn to page, literally, when you turn to page, let me find it. Oh, stop. Yeah. So. Oh, let them tattoos. When I first shared the Let Them Theory online, the 60-second video had 15 million views in one day. Yep.

Within a week, let them tattoos start rolling in. And when people, it's one thing if people share something that you say. Yes. It's another thing when they permanently ink something that you say on their body. Did you know it was going to be that powerful? No. Really? No.

No. So the Let Them Theory, it is the single most. powerful thing I've ever discovered. Yes. And in case you're listening to us and you don't know what it is, it's just a mindset tool that uses two simple words, let them, to help you identify in a split second what's in your control and what's not in your control. And any psychologist will tell you that when you are focused on what's not in your control, it creates stress and anxiety for you. Yeah. And, you know, the thing that's amazing is that you spend so much of your life, and I didn't realize how this was true for me too, giving power to other people. You give

power to other people's thoughts. You give power to their emotions. You give power to their expectations. You make it your job to make people happy. You make it your job to make sure everyone's okay. You put everybody else first. And then you wonder why you're exhausted and you have no time and you feel like an imposter or you doubt yourself constantly. It's because you are giving people power and what the let them theory taught me and saying the first step of it is let them. So when somebody's pissing you off, when somebody's annoying you, when you're sitting on the bachelor and you're going, I want out of here, you just go let them. Yeah. Let them say what they're going to say. Let the people over there be in their drama. Yeah. What happens immediately, Caitlin, is you immediately feel this release

and you feel this flood of like power and peace because perhaps for the first time you're recognizing that there's a lot of things that you give time and energy to that are not worth your time and energy. I have experienced this because you have changed my life personally with that theory. Like I, that's exactly what I felt

when I started really, not just saying it, but like believing it and like living it is this like empowerment. So how do you use it? I mean, every day with internet trolls. I feel like I've gone through so many ups and downs and I bet my listeners are even sick of me talking about trolls because it's like they're always going to be there if I have a platform right and so but hold on let's widen this out because for the person that's listening and that's spending time with us right now yeah you have trolls in your life and so when you go and let's just take this moment where you're about to post something yeah and if you think about that moment which we've all experienced where it's your social media platform yeah That is your channel for self-expression. It's not for your friends.

It is not for your family. This is for you. Right. And so how many times have you opened up a platform and maybe you've shot a little video or you've taken a photo and then what do you do? You like go through it and then you look at it and then you put a filter on it. And then you try to write a caption that's cute and kind of funny, but not this, but not that. And as you're editing yourself, you're now giving power to other people.

you're literally putting other people's opinions about how they're going to think about the photo and by the way if you have draft posts and who doesn't have draft posts because you've spent so much time oh is this the right photo and what's the guy going to think and what's this person going to be me me me me and then you exhaust yourself because you're giving so much power to what somebody else might think and I got a better way to live your life you ready yeah let them let them have a negative opinion Yeah. Let them think you look fat. Yeah.

Let them come in on your acne. Let them think your outfit is weird. Let them think you're being a little too much. Let them judge you for trying to start an affiliate marketing business or an influencer kind of brand. Let them. And then say the second step of the let them theory, which is let me remind myself that this channel and this platform is for me. Let me remind myself that when I operate in a way that makes me proud, I win. And I don't give a shit what anybody else thinks because I know who I am.

I know what I mean. I know what I intend. And if people want to have a negative thought, I can't control it anyway. So why would I spend any of my precious time and energy worrying about it? Let them. God, it gives me full body chills because I'm like, as much as I work on that and think I'm doing it, you saying that, I totally, I do that. How are you holding yourself back right now? There's an area of your life where you want to take a risk or you want to put yourself out there in a new way and you've basically said no or I'm not ready or I'm not qualified to do that or people are going to think this that or the other. Yeah, it's singing for me. Bingo. I released one song a couple years ago, a few years ago now, it went number one because people were curious. They're

like, she sings. So it like got because people were curious. So then I tell myself, well, I got to just leave it out of one hit wonder because it was a success and people were just listening because they were curious and if I do another one they're going to be like okay give it up like you're not carry underwood so stop yeah because I don't I love singing and I am okay but I'm not great but I love doing it but I'm scared that people are going to I don't know everybody what are you scared of I think I'm scared um well of course of failure because I feel like that's a very normal fear for people to have I don't want to look stupid to who anyone I have this fear of looking stupid this is the real thing this is what the person listening

needs to hear because the person listening is holding themselves back from going to nursing school or they're holding themselves back from ending a relationship because they're afraid of what people are going to think and you're like here's what's sad about this story if you're afraid of failing is it a bigger failure to go for it and not have it turn out or to actually stop yourself which is the bigger failure? To stop myself. Okay, great. You're right.

Yeah. And isn't it sad that you actually know what you want? Yes. And you're the only person who is stopping you from doing it. Yeah, it's silly. It's not silly. You don't think so? No.

I think it's very common. Yeah. And it's also tragic. I agree because I will tell you when I, did release that one song. I almost threw up. I was so nervous. And I just told myself to do it scared. And I did it and it ended up being amazing. So here, and here's why this is important. Okay, yes. Because there's eight billion people on the planet and we all live in this fiction and fantasy in our minds that everybody knows everything about what's going on.

100%. Most people don't. And most people don't care. And here's what I care about. You ready? Yeah. I don't want you. I'm 56. A massive. that if you continue doing what you're doing, you're going to get to be my age and you're going to look back and go, I fucked up. Yeah. Because I didn't allow myself

to go for what I actually wanted. Yeah. And what you clearly want to do because you're holding yourself back and because you love it is sing. Yeah. Yeah. And the thing about life

is that we're all sitting around waiting for the right time. We're sitting around waiting for the right moment. We're sitting around waiting for somebody to come and waltz into this studio and say, Caitlin, I heard that thing that you did. And honey, I want to give you a deal and we're going to make you an affair. No, no one's coming. And you don't need anyone's permission.

You need to give yourself permission to go for what you want. And you need to use the let them theory and say, let them think what they want. Let them judge. Let them have their opinions. Let them snicker. Let them sneer. let the song be what it's going to be and let me unleash what I truly want to do. Let me stop putting myself in a cage and locking the door on myself because I bet I'm willing

to bet that every time somebody launches a song, there's a little part of you that says what? I should do it? Yes. Yeah. Yeah. And I could do it. I also think I'm like, and again, you can help me with this one. I feel like I'm not deserving because I'm in Nashville.

There are people, I walk down Broadway and every single person is so talented and deserving and I get scared that, oh, what, because I have this platform that I came off a show and have this, I feel like I'm taking something away from someone else. Oh, I love that you brought this up. Okay, so you're ready? Yes. So in the book about the Let Them Theory, first of all, I teach. you about it, but then I divide the book into eight sections. And the eight sections are the eight

ways you're going to use it to stop giving your power away and to take your power back and to create a life that you love. Okay. And one of the sections is all about the fact that we all struggle with chronic comparison. Yeah, it's so bad. And the sense that somebody else's success somehow takes success away from you or that your success takes it away from somebody else. And so here's how I'm going to change your mindset right now, and I want to do it for you as you're listening to us too. There are certain things in life that are in limited supply. Success, money, friendship, happiness, love. Limitless supply. It is there for the taking. Money? Of course. Okay. Go on. Yes. Me making a shitload of money does not prevent you from making as much

money is you want to put your head down and figure out how to make and do the hard work to figure it out. So do you think it's an excuse that I'm saying that? Yes. Yes. Okay. I think you have a deeper issue that you should talk to your therapist about that you're like committed to, which is you're not worthy of it or you don't deserve it or you're not good enough. Yeah. And so even as you get more and more successful, the thing about life is that if you don't see the core story that has haunted you forever, even as you start to improve other areas of your life, that story is just going to rear its head again and again and again. And you're looking for the validation that you need outside of yourself. And you will always feel unworthy as long as you don't pursue singing. And the

reason why is you're the one saying you're not worthy of it. And every day that you wake up and you don't do it, it confirms to you through your actions that you're not worthy of it because you're not doing it. And so the only way that you start to feel worthy of your dreams and of the things that you want is when you see yourself push through that bullshit and you start doing the work to make it happen. Yeah. That's how you start to claim worthiness for yourself is that you start acting consistently with the things that you want because it proves that you're worthy of it. When you, like imagine how different you would feel if you walk out of here and you, go book time with a couple session musicians for an afternoon. How would you feel? So excited.

Yes. What's stopping you from doing it? All of my bullshit excuses. Yes. And I know where like I have, I have figured this out with, I bring this up also on a lot of my podcasts. Have you heard of Hoffman? Of course. I went there to like figure out what it is. And it, it really is this belief that I, if I, if I'm not the best at something, I shouldn't do it. Okay. And that's probably. Probably because you got attention when you were achieving like the rest of us. Yes, exactly. So you think you earn love and praise. And I think I earn it through winning and my looks.

Okay. Well, then why don't you follow the model and earn it from yourself? Earn worthiness and praise from yourself by actually doing the things that you're scared to do. Which I have been working on. Stop talking about working on it. Do it. Like talk is. Everybody can play a big game about what they're going to do and what we're talking about.

That's all from the neck up. up. I actually think you revolutionize your life if you start to approach it from the neck down. What are you doing? We could talk all day long about your dreams of getting into singing. And at the end of the day, that's all from the neck up. It's all the things you're thinking about. It's the talk, talk, talk, doc, doc, doc, doc, that's not going to get you anywhere. Yeah. What are you doing from the neck down? Are you picking up a guitar? Are you writing songs? Are you working with session musicians? Are you like actually putting in the work? And this is what I got wrong about motivation for a long time. I thought that I had to wait to feel ready. That will take

you to your grave. Yes. Motivation's garbage, Caitlin. You're not going to feel ready to do it. You've got to claim your dreams. And the let them theory is going to help you because every excuse that you have is probably related to other people. Yeah. Yep. And what people think is going to say, let them think negative thoughts and let me give, let me go for my dreams. Let me do the work. And back to this idea about success, happiness, money, love, friendship. It's all in limitless supply. Yeah. Other people can't block your way. They lead the way. Only you can block yourself from achieving the things that you dream about. And if you flip this notion on your head that somebody else achieving what I want means I can't have it. And I thought this way for a long time.

Like I held myself back from getting into the podcast space. Yeah. Because I'm like, oh, the show's already done. There's six million shows on Spotify alone. Caitlin already launched hers eight years ago. I'm too late. Somebody else already beat me to it. It's complete horseshit. Horstit. We're number nine on Spotify. I was good to say, and where are you at with your podcast? But here's the thing. It wouldn't matter if I'm 900 or 9,000 or 90,000 because I'm doing it. Yeah. Yeah. And so when you start to see that other people lead the way. And that's a really good thing because it means if someone else is doing it, there's a formula you can follow. And this is what we get wrong about life. You got to let people have their success. And then you've got to let me find the formula. And then let me remind myself,

I got to do the work. And if they can do it, so can I. Like we think in the game of life we're actually playing against other people. That's not the game of life. Right. We're playing with them. Other people teach you how to be a better card player. Other people teach you what's possible. But if you have a mindset like I used to have and that you're struggling with right now that it's all in limited supply, somebody else getting married, somebody else getting pregnant, that means that it's not going to bullshit. It's interesting because I can I can feel that with certain aspects of my life and I've gotten so much better in certain ways. And then there's still my struggles and things that hold me back and absolutely cripple me. How did you get to where to that mindset? Like,

what happened for you in your life to get this mindset and to be writing books on this theory that's changing people's lives? Well, you know, Caitlin, I learn everything in life the hard way by fucking up my life. Yeah. And then realizing nobody's going to fix this for me. And I got to figure out how to climb out of the hole I either fell into or I dug for myself. So is there a hole that changed the trajectory of your life? Well, there was a huge one like 15 years ago.

So 15 years ago, I was 41, three kids under the age of 10. My husband had pursued his dream of going into the restaurant business. And the first one went really well. And like complete idiots, we cashed out our life savings because I'm, you know, looking at what everybody else is doing, right? And thinking, oh, okay, I got to have equity. I got to own all this stuff. Right.

And what could possibly go wrong in the restaurant business? Absolutely everything did. Location number two and three were complete dogs. And by the age of 41, I found myself in a place I never thought I would be. We were $800,000 in debt. Wow. The house that we owned had liens on it because we had secured it with the house. We had cashed out our 401Ks and the kids' college savings.

We had taken out a home equity line because that's free money. We had cashed out our credit cards because why not? You know, we're just going to get rich in the restaurant business. And I lost it. Like I literally, first of all, I lost my job. I got laid off. And the second thing that happened is a bunch of friends and family members had invested. And when you have put yourself out there and now you're failing, not only are you spiraling, but the shame is racking up.

And I, this was not the vision I had for my life. Like, I'm a big manifester. I'm a person that really believes in the science of manifesting. I never made a vision board that included photographs that said divorce, alcoholism, you know, million dollars in debt. That was not part of the plan. and life is easy when it's going according to plan but when the shit hits the fan that's when you learn what you're made of right and I found myself at a point where I literally was hitting I didn't recognize myself I was hitting the snooze button six times a morning the kids were

missing the bus I was drinking myself into the ground I was screaming at my husband nonstop and I was on the brink of losing everything I cared about and one night I was sitting there watching TV and all of a sudden, and I'm having one of those pep talks. I don't know if you did this during your rock bottom moment when you were in your 20s, but, you know, I was kind of saying to myself, that's it, Mel, tomorrow morning, you've got to get up. Yep. You've got to get those kids on the, you've got to find a job. You've got to stop drinking. You've got to get your ass out for a walk. You've got to tell your parents what's going on. You've got to pull it together, woman. And by God, when that alarm rings, you better get your ass out of bed. And all of a sudden, it was like a sign from God,

this rocket ship blasts across the television screen and it gave me this crazy idea. What if tomorrow morning when that alarm rings, you launch yourself out of bed like a rocket, you move so fast, you're not in that bed when that anxiety pins you there like a gravity blanket. Yeah. And look, I had had four Manhattans that night. So it might have been the bourbon that gave me that idea because it sounds kind of dumb, right? No, I actually, I'm like, that makes sense because if you stir in it in the morning, you don't move. Correct. Yeah. And plus, there's a lot of research about what happens first thing when you wake up. So if you, first thing in the morning when you wake up, your cortisol levels, which are a stress hormone, are their

highest. Yeah. Second, if you've been drinking the night before, the number one kind of symptom of a hangover is anxiety. Oh, 100%. Yeah. So you're processing the alcohol. Third thing, for people that have a lot of traumatic experiences in their childhood, like if you grew up in a chaotic or abusive household, or you grew up in a lot of poverty or discrimination. There's a lot of bracing and fight or flight that people feel first thing in the morning. And so there's a very common experience of having a sense of trauma or dread in the morning that goes all the way back to childhood. Wow. So getting out of bed had always been kind of hard for me. But at this moment in my life, it felt impossible. Yeah. And that morning, it was a Tuesday morning in February, one decision leads to a

different life. And that morning, I made a decision. The alarm rang. And I immediately remembered that idea of counting backwards, five, four, three, two, one like NASA does. And then I started thinking about it. Yeah. And this is the fatal mistake that we make, that you know what you could do or should do. but instead of just doing that little thing you stop and think and as you stop and think you move from the conscious part of your brain to your subconscious part of the brain and your old habitual habits and patterns take over within five seconds flat this happens and once you notice that there's this moment where you know what you should do but you hesitate this this i it's i call it a just moment so if you think about nike yeah most famous tagline in the world just do it what do you think

The most important word of those three words, just do it, is. The most important one? Do? It. No. Just. It's just. And let me explain my.

Well, imagine if the tagling was, do it. Right. That's not that inspiring. Just do it. It acknowledges your humanity. It acknowledges this moment of hesitation. It acknowledges that deep in your heart to do it as I want to sing. Yeah.

I have this dream, just do it, acknowledges that you're doubting yourself. Wow. That's a great point. And so as I was sitting there thinking, I don't want to get out of it. Yeah. How the hell is this going to help? It's dark. It's cold.

It's New England. Like, I'm $800,000. I start reaching for the snooze button. Yeah. Because that's what my habit was. And I don't know why, but I just started counting five, four, three, two, one. and I stood up. And it was the beginning of a whole new life.

Wow. And, you know, I'll be honest with you, that tool of counting backwards, I started calling at the five-second rule. You've got to move within five seconds or your brain contaminates your will to move. It became a tool that I used, 5-4-3-2-1 to pick up the phone and start networking. 5-4-3-2-1, put on the sneakers, get out the door. 5-4-3-2-1, go to the job interview. 5-4-3-2-1.

Take a breath before I snap at my husband. 5-4-3-2-1, pick up the seltzer. instead of the bourbon. And one five-second move at a time, I took the actions that changed my life. It was not glamorous. It was grueling. It took years of small, consistent moves to get our finances paid off, to get our life back on track for my husband and I to start working on our marriage.

And anybody that tells you that your life is going to change overnight is trying to sell you something. The truth is it changes over time, which is why it can happen for anyone. If I can literally push my sorry 41-year-old ass through anxiety and depression and $800,000 in debt and unemployment and a drinking problem to where am I now? 15 years later, one of the most successful podcast hosts in the world with 21 million followers and impacting millions of people's lives and a massive business where I employ so many incredible people. Like, it's mind-blowing. Yeah. Wow. But it isn't. Yeah. See, there's nothing special about me. I just did what I, what most people won't do. I get up on the days I don't feel like it. I do the irritating,

boring, grueling stuff that is required for you to be successful. And anybody can do that. and you know what you want and that's the hardest part for most people right and so how dare you allow somebody else's opinions about what you're doing to stop you that's you giving your power away and the person that's listening to us right now is doing the same thing in their life yeah they're more worried about what their friends think about what they're doing than what they think they're more worried about being the single friend again which is why they're putting up with bullshit in their relationship that they shouldn't be. And then I feel like when you're doing that, you're losing all of your authenticity of who you actually are and who you want to be because you're

comparing and trying to please other people. And as much as like we wanted things to happen overnight or big changes to happen, it's the small shifts. But those small shifts can also go the other way where you're constantly like trying to please other people and then you're going backwards. You're a genius. You're a genius. No, here's why. Because you're either going to put other people's opinions and their feelings about things at the first position in your life or you're going to put your opinions right in the first position in your life and right now and I was doing this too right now you're navigating your entire life based on someone else's mood or based on what somebody else might think about it and here's the joke when you look at the

science which I write about extensively in this book the average person let's just talk about being afraid of other people's opinions, okay? The average person has 70,000 thoughts a day. That's what researchers kind of estimate. Okay. I can't control the shit that pops in my mind. Can you control what pops in yours? I wish I could, but no, I cannot. Correct. So what on earth makes you think you could actually control what somebody else is going to think about you? Right. And yet we bend ourselves in knots hoping that if we just do a little bit more, if we just show up at the party, if we just do this, If we just post the right thing, then people are going to like us. And yet, how many times have you bent over backwards and helped somebody out?

And they're not even that grateful for it. Right. And so this is why the let them theory and learning to say, let them think a negative thought about me and let me operate in a way that makes me proud of myself. Yeah. And so if you want to show up and help a friend, do it because it makes you proud of yourself. Don't do it because you think the other person's going to think you're a good friend. And for like, if you sit, you get a cookie, don't do it for, you know, for a reward.

Yes. Yeah. Yes. The reward is actually important. The reward is how you feel about yourself. Yes. Not how they feel about you. It's how you feel about yourself.

So let's talk about an example that a lot of people may struggle with, which is like, do you feel guilty? Do you ever let your parents' expectations make you feel guilty so you change your plans? Yes. Great. Okay. So when's the last time you did that? Just the other day when I was. home in Canada and I felt like I wasn't spending enough time there and I, because I'm all over

the map for work and I don't spend enough time with the family. Right. Okay. So this is a great example and I relate to this because I have a daughter here in Los Angeles. I have another one in New York. I have a son in Vermont. My parents are in Michigan. And so, and I'm working all the time and I'm managing this company and we're producing this big podcast and all this other amazing stuff. And I love what I do for a living. But I used to be playing. But I used to be playing. by feeling like I'm the world's worst daughter because I'm not making enough of an effort to go see my family or to take my round up all three kids and fly them all, right? And so we all feel guilty. Here's how the Let Them Theory turned that on its head and actually improved my

relationship with my parents and my kids and also made me feel better about myself. When guilt drives you, you turn other people into the villain. If you feel guilty that you don't see your parents enough, your parents become a problem. Yeah. And they didn't do that to you. You did that to yourself and to them. So don't go home to Canada more because it makes your parents think you're a good daughter. Yeah. And it relieves you of guilt. Go home to Canada more because it makes you feel like a good daughter. And that's why you're going to feel more powerful when you say, I'm going to let my parents have their expectations and opinions about the fact that I work too much. But let me really drop into my values. And if I really value family, which you do, then how much time

and how much effort makes me feel like I'm aligned with my values around family and being a good daughter. And when you operate from your values, you create space for your parents to feel how they feel and for you to take responsibility for your life in a way that makes you feel good about yourself. I feel like that can be applied to so many things too. Like that can change relationships like marriages, you know? How do you not take it personally when somebody is doing it for them? What do you mean? Can you get me an example? Like say I've never been married. Say in a marriage you feel like the other person is being selfish because they're doing what makes them happy for them, but it's really making them a better partner for you.

How do you not take it personally if they're not putting you first? Well, what is their job in the relationship? Are they supposed to put you first? Yeah, I don't know. You tell me. You get to choose. I've struggled with this in the past because I'm like, I always put myself first and then I end up feeling really selfish.

But if I don't put myself first, I don't show up as the partner that I want to be. Yeah. because I am not happy with myself. Well, do you know the secret to a happy relationship? Does it let them? Yeah. Well, and it's also be with a happy person. Yeah.

And prioritize taking responsibility for your own happiness. And so here's how I would respond to that. There's a big difference between somebody putting you first and somebody operating in a way that makes you know you're a priority. Do you see the difference? Yes. And so if you don't feel like you're a priority, the first thing, thing that you have to say is you have to say let them because the hardest thing about relationships

whether you're dating or you're in a situation ship or you're in a committed relationship or you're married or you're single the hardest thing about a relationship is understanding that people's behavior is the truth do not listen to people's words yeah watch what they do and it will tell you everything that you know yeah and if somebody's behavior shows you that you're not a priority The fact is, you're not a priority. And you have to let them. Yes. And the reason why you have to let them is because the single biggest thing in life that you will never be able to control is another human being.

Other people, and I write about this extensively in the Let Them Theory book, other people, we all have a hardwired need. It's a survival instinct to be in control. Yeah. You have to feel in control of what you say, think, and do. If somebody tries to control what you're going to think or do, we are wired neurologically, physically, every part of your body to just resist it and push back because it's the only way you're going to stay in control of yourself. And the major mistake that I made in my marriage for years and as a boss and as a parent is I thought that I could pressure or motivate other people to

change. You cannot. You cannot. Yeah. Yeah. And the more you push someone to change, the more you create resistance to change. Yep. You have to let people be. And then you've got to let me. That's the second part. First part is say let them because now you're releasing control of something you can't control. And then the second part is say let me.

And let me is really cool because this is where you take power back and you focus on what's in your control. Because there's always something in your control. And in a relationship, again, doesn't matter whether it's marriage, situation. You're dating somebody or going on the first date. you're single, whatever it may be. The only thing you can control is what you think, say and do. Taking responsibility for your life means focusing on, let's look at the word responsibility, your ability to respond. And no matter what somebody else is doing, you always have the ability to respond. And that's why you've got to let them, especially if you're dating, especially if you're

like, am I with the right person? Let them reveal who they are. Yeah. Yeah. Because then you get to choose. Are these table scraps enough for me? Right. is not being a priority, what I want in my life. And when you then sit down and talk to somebody, and there's all these like guides in the book using research from the leading psychiatrists and neuroscientists about how you influence other people, because I said you can't change other people,

I never said you couldn't influence them. And so you can learn the dark arts of truly leveraging neuroscience and the wiring in somebody's brain to make them think It's their idea to change. Oh, it is sneaky, amazing stuff. Well, we kind of learned that at the end of Hoffman where it was like, if you want to see change in somebody, like, be the light, like, so that they are inspired by you to change. Well, I'll give you an example to make this make sense because as you're listening and spending time together with us, I want to make sure that you can take both let them and let me and understand why this works.

So let's say that you're just working at an office, okay? and you're every day through lunch you're a workaholic like Mel Robbins and so you're like tap tap tap on the computer and you're eating your sandwich and you're drinking your coffee and you see this colleague of yours who gets up at lunch

and they go outside and they take a walk. And then they come back and they look happier and more refreshed the light so to speak. Tap tap tap you're doing your work and you see them do this every day for I don't know a couple weeks you work through lunch every day

one of these days you're going to sit up and you're going to go you know, I should go for a walk today. And here's the catch. You don't credit your colleague. Yeah. You actually think it's your idea.

Yeah. And so the reason why the let them theory works in a relationship where either you're not a priority and you don't know how to change this or you're like another thing that I see a lot is that people date the potential. Yes. Oh, yeah. So you're in a relationship with the fantasy in your head and you're not actually in a relationship with the reality that you're sleeping next to.

And that's why you've got to let them. And you've got to say to yourself, if this person never changes because the likelihood is they're not going to, is this the person who and the love that I deserve and choose in my life? And if you can say yes, great. Yeah. If you're like, maybe not. Staying in a situation like that, hoping someone changes actually just creates resentment. And it's going to be the reason why it ends in. the end okay you know that feeling when you just finally climb into bed after a hectic day and

it's like the world kind of melts away i feel like that's exactly what happened the first night i paired with bowl and branch signature sheets with their waffle bed blanket one time my dad slept over and he was watching the dogs because i went traveling and i was like just sleep in the bed with the dogs and he immediately went to bull and branch and got stuff for himself i already loved the sheets because they're buttery soft and they only get softer with every wash but the blanket i honestly thought It's just a blanket. Oh, I will admit when I'm wrong, and I was so wrong. The moment I settled in, I felt it.

The layers of soft, breathable, organic cotton, cozy yet lightweight, warmth, and a texture that just makes you want to stay in bed forever. I mean, I already want to do that, but this really did level it up as well. And you already know I have their comforter and duvet, too, because I think I've talked about it before. So my entire bed situation right now is Bull and Branch, and honestly, that's probably why my aura ring numbers are lit. and legit okay they have been high lately bull and bridge bedding is designed by artisans with the highest level

of craftsmanship comes in over 300 color combinations and is made to get softer over time truly next level sleep experience and i can promise that once you try it you'll never go back to your old sheets and i don't break promises so discover a softness beyond your wildest dreams with bull and branch get 15 off your first order plus free shipping at bollandbranch.com slash vine 15 with code vine 15 that's boll and branch b o l-l-l-a-n-d branch dot com slash vine 15 code vine 15 to unlock 15% off exclusions apply it's so powerful this theory and again because it doesn't have to be just pigeonholed into one thing. You know, it can, I was actually going to ask because I do the doom and gloom where I go to worst case scenario all the time. I do have a really hard time with like things I can't control.

I always think something, like I'll see a set of stairs and I'm going down them and I'm like, I'm going to fall and break my neck and die. I go worst case scenario with everything. I do this in the middle of the night. I do it when I wake up in the morning and I try so hard to come out of it and just not go there. But it feels like the older I get, the more I do this. It's only because it's habit. Do you want to prompt to stop you? Please. The next time you catch yourself doing that, and this is super common, because thinking patterns are a lot like sunglasses. If you put on a darker pair of sunglasses, it just tints everything. If you put on rows, it tints everything rose. And so think about your mindset or your thinking patterns as a lens through which everything

is viewed. And so the next time you catch yourself doing the doom and gloom. And let's just go back of the singing. What if I put out of a song and it really flops and what if I'm really embarrassed and what if I'm not as good as I think? I want you to catch yourself and that's the hard part. The hard part is catching yourself. So I want to acknowledge the fact that you know that this is an issue. And so that's the hardest part for most of us. So great job. Second thing is we've got to interrupt that negative thinking pattern because the nature of patterns is this. Patterns repeat. Yeah. And you can't just break up. pattern, you have to replace it with something else. And so what we're going to replace the doom

and gloom with is this, you're just going to say these words, it has changed my life to say, what if it all works out? Yeah. What if it all works out? What if taken a risk and going for music all works out? What if the first song is a flop, but it actually all works out? Yeah, right. And what happens is this. First of all, we don't know what's going to happen in the future. We don't know that you're going to, like, fall down the stairs. We don't know if your singing career is going to fail or it's going to succeed. So either the positive or the negative is an unknown. It's all a fantasy.

The unknown is what makes me spiral, though. Right. But you're actually trying to create control by assuming the worst. If you're going to do that, why not assume the best? And here's why it's really important to start saying, what if it all works out? the reason why it's super important is because your mindset does matter and if you believe it's not going to happen if you believe it's going to be terrible or hard or this or the other thing you're more likely not going to do it and so and you're going to start bracing because the more

that you're up in your head ruminating and dooming and glooming and all that stuff you're triggering your nervous system to go into fight or flight which for a lot of us then creates procrastination and it also increases your inner critic. This is all research, by the way, I cover in the let them theory book. And the let them and saying what if it all works out is something that you can put in the place of the spiral because the truth is you don't know. Right. And if you can start to convince yourself, what if it all works out? Now you're starting to train yourself for a mindset called realistic optimism. And all that realistic optimism is is this belief that through my attitude and through my behavior, I can create a positive impact on anything. And the fact is you

can. Yeah. And I want to share a little bit of research that I also cover in the Let Them Theory book. Because the Gottman's, who are the most famous researchers on the planet, two statistics that are super important. Sixty-nine percent of the things that couples fight about, absolutely, they're never going to resolve these issues. The things that make you not compatible with somebody are when your values or your dreams don't line up. And staying in the relationship means you either have to give up on a dream or you are going to go against your values. That is the sign that this is not compatible.

And the only way you know this is true is if you can stop bitching about the issue. Yeah. I just talked about the Gottman challenge. They do this 30-day challenge for relationships. I think it was a Q&A I was doing. and a couple at asks like how they get through something and they're both bickering and they're just fighting about the same things and it's the small things and it's you start to focus

on those small things and I mean I should take my own advice here as when I give advice I'm like you're focusing on these small things but have you ever tried this 30 day challenge where they actually like go back to like what did you like about each other the first time you met what is something that you noticed what is your first memory of this and it's like training your brain to just find the positive and remember the good. And that's just like something that we can all do in our everyday life. Here's another tool that you can use on that. So we're all irritating. Yeah. Period. Yeah. Right. Like I mean, even, I think one of the interesting things about family and about being a relationship is it teaches you how to love somebody you don't like. Yeah.

Right. Yes. And so I'll use myself as an example. I'm extremely challenging to live with. I have really bad ADHD. I'm all over the place. I'm a creative. My husband is Mr. If you are ever in the wilderness in a snowstorm and you need to survive, you want Christopher Robbins by your side.

The man can literally take a tampon and turn it into a tent. Like he is the most and he's also the comest. He's a meditation instructor. He runs a men's retreat. He's a death dula, so he sits with people.

who are like he is if you want to think tornado meets rock yeah that's Mel and Chris Robbins wow so I drive him absolutely insane I am always late I have cons I'm constantly running from one thing to the next so like I'll leave a Kleenex on the counter because I'll I'll forget something as I'm walking to the trash if you look at our our bathroom sinks his is spotless it's like walking into a seven star hotel you know like with like minimal mine is like a tetris game of shit piled everywhere and so the poor man he has asked me katelyn a hundred thousand times please when we get something to deliver to the house and you unpack it please please throw out the stuff flatten the cardboard box take it to the pile in

the garage i for the life of me i can do it one and then I just start stacking them next to the garage store. Now, I intend to take them. Right. So how does the resentment not build up there? It does. Okay. And so the little things become big things.

Yes. And this is where the let them theory helps. It helps with a roommate. It helps with the parent. It helps with the sister. It helps with anybody. You're going to let them be who they are. Yeah.

Mel has ADHD. Mel is crazy. Mel wants to do better. Mel's going to run late. That's just Mel. Yeah. But let me sit her down. and explain the impact.

And when Chris sits me down and said to me, look, I get it. I get that this is challenging for you to remember to do these things. But every time I see the cardboard boxes stacked up like a pyramid next to the garage, when I've asked you to flatten the boxes, that is literally like a giant middle finger. And you telling me that I'm your maid. Yeah. And when he explains it like that,

not the intention, but the actual impact, now I have a deeper reason to try to remember to do it. And even things like, and I'm not great about it, I now execute, which I'm with a much higher success rate. But if I forget, I'll text and be like, dude, I'm really sorry. I ran out of the house late. I think I forgot. Please don't do it. I'll take care of me. But taking the time to both let the other person be and let them be who they are.

then take responsibility. You have the ability to respond to this, not snapping at them, not when alcohol is involved, but truly taking responsibility for how it impacts you and communicating it. That's all you need to do. Now, if the person doesn't actually then honor what you just said, they're revealing who there. Let them disrespect you because now it comes back to you and your ability to respond. It's so crazy how two simple words can go so deep. Yes, but you can't forget the let me part. Everybody gets let them tattooed on your arm because it's instant stress release. Right.

If traffic is backing up, let them. If they didn't staff the supermarket with enough cashiers, let them. If your mother-in-law like snips about your parent, let them. If you launch an influencer business and you lose followers, let them. Yeah. That's why we love it because it gives you power and peace and you feel a little superior when you say let them. Yeah. But let me is the more important part because let me is where you cue yourself that no matter what that idiot who just ghosted you that you met, you know, online did, let me remind myself I always have power because I can always choose what I think say or do.

Okay, that is so important because my brain was going like, let them, can that sometimes be letting somebody get away with treating you a certain way? No, because you get to decide if you're going to stick around. Right. And you can decide if you want to stick up for yourself or say something or just move on. Yeah. It's not an excuse for somebody to abuse you or treat you like garbage. Right. It's actually you leveraging detachment theory and acceptance and stoicism and seeing things as they are and not excusing it. Right. Like, and literally, because you go let them, because I can't control if somebody's going to gaslight me. Right. Let them. I can't control if they raise their voice. But let me choose if I'm actually going to stay in this relationship.

Let me choose how much time I give this person. Right. You can choose to leave any conversation, any date, any table, any text chain, any time you want. Let me do it. It's powerful. It really, like, it's crazy. And this book, when this podcast comes out, this book will be out. Oh, yeah.

Yeah. So, and you can obviously find it everywhere. Everywhere. It's going to, I mean, people are going to go nuts. I hope they just use it because what's been revelatory to me is I didn't realize how much time and energy I actually had because I was giving it to everybody else. Yeah. What would you say like the main, like, if somebody was going to go pick up this book,

what is like the main takeaway, obviously let them let me? But like is it, it sounds like it's everything. It's about power. Yeah. It's about you're right now giving your power to other people. Yes. If you feel exhausted, overwhelmed, lost, stuck, or frustrated, or you just can't quite seem to be as happy as you want to be, the problem isn't you.

Yeah. The problem is the power you give to other people. Right. You are spending too much time and energy trying to manage control or worrying about what other people think say or do. And you'll never be able to control what somebody else thinks, says or does. Your time and energy is paramount, Caitlin, because your experience of life is determined by where you spend your time and what you pour your energy into.

Yeah. And if all of your time and energy is going to worrying about everybody else or in your case stopping yourself from doing some of the things that you truly deeply want to do. Yeah. What a waste of your one life. Well, and I can say that to like, I was so scared to start a podcast eight years ago. I didn't really know what podcasting was. Nobody was really doing it. I didn't know what it felt like a big commitment because I was doing it twice a week. I didn't know. And if I didn't do that, I wouldn't be sitting here with you, which is like, you're like one of my dream podcast guests. Oh, well, thank you. Oh, truly. And hopefully I, well, you know, I was about to say hopefully I, I,

exceeded expectations but if not let them right but you did i could it's so funny because then i i need to this is another intrusive thought i'm like was i even a good interviewer because i just could i just sat here and was like i just listened to you the whole time because you everything you comes out of your mouth i'm like you're changing my life like it's just so incredible and i'm like i know you wouldn't be here if you didn't want to take the time to come here and i'm honored that you would even come on this podcast and i'm so grateful for you and everything that you're saying and doing and being, and it's really helping a lot of people. I'm here because I want to be here.

I believe that. Excellent. Excellent. Yeah. I really do. And I want to just ask, I know we have like two minutes. I just, a couple of people had questions for you. And I was saying this before we started recording.

I was like, I get so many, you know, if I did a Q&A, but I, when people found out you were coming on this podcast, they were like, are you kidding me? And I have the most questions I've ever had. Let's hear them. So I'll pick out of you. We'll rapid fire a bunch. Yeah, rapid fire. You kind of touched on this because a lot of people were asking about ADHD and relationships. But that was kind of helpful because you kind of said that. Here's what I want you to think about. There's a difference between your intent and the impact of causes. And so it's important to me because I know I don't intend to hurt somebody else. Right. Or to make somebody else feel like I'm using them or that they're not a priority. Right. Because I have. have in the past made my husband feel like he's not a priority. That's not what I intended. Right. But that was the impact that I caused. And based on my values, I wanted to take responsibility and change because I don't want my actions or my ADHD to impact someone negatively. So in relationships, the let them theory will help because you've got to let them be who they are and stop

trying to change people, but then you've got to empower yourself. That's the let me part to actually explain what the impact is and to make a few requests. And then you've got to step back and let them be who they are. It's so hard to take accountability. It's a challenge. It's easier to blame people. That's why we love doing it. So much easier, right? Okay, somebody wants to know how to truly let go and move on from someone says, scared of letting go and seeing them move on with somebody else like thinking what was wrong with me why didn't it work with me because it wasn't supposed to yeah and there's an entire the last section of the eight sections of the let them theory book is all about love and there's a breakup section that we wrote while my daughter who's 25 was

going through the biggest heartbreak of her life and here's what i need you to understand you have to let them leave and what most people don't do is they don't do a 30 day no contest And the reason why a 30-day no-contact protocol is critical is because when somebody leaves you, they don't just physically leave you. All of the patterns that you learned when you were with them that are now encoded in your brain and your nervous system are still in your brain and your nervous system. And so the process of breaking up is really about unlearning what life was like with them. And that is a physical, a physiological, and a neurological withdrawal. And so, you know, if you think about it, the reason why when you break up with somebody, you can hear their voice is because it's encoded in your brain.

The reason why you have this sensation that they're next to you in bed or riding with you in the car and you can almost hear how they would respond is because they're encode. coded in your nervous system. These are the patterns of your life. It's the same thing as grief. And the problem is that too many of you are following this person or you're rewatching the videos or you're listening to the voice memos. And every time you do that, you actually trigger the pattern in your nervous system. And so for somebody that has not been able to get over somebody else, you have never done this 30-day withdrawal where it's literally a cleanse. You have to remove physical objects. You have to take them. When Sawyer and her boyfriend broke up, we took him

right off the family photo digital thing because I didn't want it triggering her. I would recommend you move your bed or you get a different blanket. You give your bedroom a little makeover because you spend a lot of time there. You don't need to go psycho. You don't need to burn shit or go to the dump and, you know, break shit. Don't do that. Why? Well, that gives somebody else power, right? And But instead, put it in a box and get it out of sight because any reminder keeps the pattern active, which will prevent you from moving on. It's a physical withdrawal. Yeah.

And we don't talk about it like that. You think that the fact that you're still thinking about them 29 days later means that you're meant for each. That's not what it means. Right. It means that your nervous system and your brain are trying to unlearn what life is like with this person. Get over yourself.

Like, sorry. Yeah. And the more you look at this person's life from a. far, the more you're trapping yourself in the life you no longer have. And this is harsh, but it's true. And if you ever even sneakily want to get back with this person, you have to break it off for 30 days so you find your power again. Yeah. Yeah. And then you can see with clear eyes. And I'm not saying it's easy. No, it's, well, it's not, it's, it feels impossible. But thinking about it like alcohol withdrawal or thinking about it like grieving somebody that's

dead. Yeah. That's what you're doing. Yeah. Because that part of your life is Okay. This one's for me. Yes. I am terrified, and I've said this on the podcast so many times. I'm like very attached to my dogs. Okay. And knowing that they are obviously going to die before me, like will cripple me. Like I'll stay in bed crying sometimes and it hasn't even had. What if it all works out? What if they're going to live longer than me? I don't know. What if it all works out? Really, that can, I can use that. I don't you tell me. But I'm like, but they're going to die. what if it all works out yeah what if death is a transition to a different type of relationship right right yeah if you don't have to be crippled kately by losing something you love what if you could enjoy the time that you have instead of squandering it i know by filling your brain with something that hasn't happened yet yeah what if it all works out what if you're stronger than you realize yeah which yeah which is usually how it turned out. No, seriously, I want to hear you say it. What if I'm stronger than I

realize? Yeah. And I've proven that to. How does that feel? It feels like I want to move on to the next thing. I can tell. Yeah. I do this in therapy all the time. She's like, no, no, because I just want to jump to the next thing when I get uncomfortable with a feeling. Yeah. So this is another section in the Let Them Theory book. It's all about learning to let your feelings rise and fall because an emotion or a feeling is a six-second chemical explosion in your body. That's all that it is. You cannot control the feelings or emotions that rise up, but you have the ability to respond.

And if you just let the feelings rise up, let them, then just remind yourself, this is the let me part, most emotions dissipate within 90 seconds if you don't grip and avoid and suppress. I have gotten a lot better with that. I used to really react with emotion. and I have really practiced that. Yeah.

And it's changed my life, actually, to just not respond immediately with emotion because I've gotten myself in a lot of trouble with that for many years. But I also feel like, you know, age. People get so scared to age. I am so terrified of aging, and that comes from a lot of childhood things of looks and how aging is scary, and I'm realizing that.

You realize you're talking to a woman who's 20 years old than you. About how you're scared of aging? And I look up to you. And I'm like, you're beautiful on the inside and out. You're wiser than you've ever been. You're doing huge things. Like, I, it's just a fear that's, you know. Then create, what if it all works out.

Right. That's, and that's what I'm. What if it all works out? Yeah. I'm really going to use that. Because if you actually believe it, it will. Yeah. Yeah.

Wow. This was the best podcast ever. Thank you so much. You're fantastic. You are amazing and I just can't wait for everybody to get this book because that's just like this even just the um like your instagram account does so much so i can't imagine having even more like you on a podcast you with a book like just more of this please all the time i well i have the easy part because i'm just explaining it you have to use it right and i want you

to make me a promise okay i want you to promise me that you are going to release more music and i want a date right now oh my gosh okay for by one When are you going to go on Instagram and play us an acoustic version of a song that you might publish, by when? Okay, let's say, okay, my birthday is June 19th, and it's going to be my 40th birthday. Let's say by then. That sounds like a long time for me. Really? I'm going to let you do that because it's your life.

But to me, there's something around that that I would look at, but I'll take it. I will take it. What is it? June 19th. June 19th. Yeah. deal okay welcome i would new life i would never break a promise to you ever okay well let them you either will or you won't i can't control it so i'm not going to worry about it thank you

thank you for doing that for me you're welcome and as you're listening i want you to make a promise to yourself on that same day we're going to all celebrate your 40th birthday okay by making a promise yeah of something that you've been holding yourself back from doing this conversation has inspired empowered you to go, fuck that. I am not standing my own way anymore. I'm not going to let other people's success paralyze me. Let them lead the way. Let me start taking the actions. What's your birthday again? June 19th. June 19th is going to be the day that all of the people listening to this podcast are going to do something publicly on their social media. And I want you to be accountable for it. So I want you to tag Caitlin and me, DM us, let us know that it's happening. So we can like do something

cool around your 40th birthday wait what a movement i love this for everybody okay great take it go yes i'm excited for everybody that's awesome what a great idea that's yours thank you for helping me like want to execute this because i actually now feel inspired to go do it great prove it okay yes thank you so much wow i just feel fired up right now i feel fired up for you Joy to the world, Cludo TV is free with all the best movies. The latter days are brutal. So we're killing Fuggo. Screen Pluto TV, string Pluto TV, streaming Pluto TV for free.

Stream blockbuster hits like 21 Jump Street, Ted, the expendables, and so much more on Pluto. More on Cluto TV. Stream now, pay never. Hi, I'm Lauren. And I'm Chandler. And we're the host of Pop Apologist podcast, a weekly podcast devoted to celebrity gossip, Hollywood deep dives, real housewives drama, and anything and everything, Taylor Swift. We're two sisters who make no apologies for our love of pop culture and the fact that A-listers might be more to us than each other. Join us on your favorite podcast app every Wednesday for Pop Apologists. Pop Apologists, your new favorite sister and celeb podcast.