Off The Vine with Kaitlyn Bristowe - Oz Pearlman | Mind Games with Mentalist & Magician

Episode Date: May 23, 2024

#739. In this mind-blowing episode of "Off the Vine," Kaitlyn Bristowe sits down with the renowned mentalist Oz Pearlman. Oz takes us on an incredible journey from his early fascination with magic at age 13 to becoming a world-famous mentalist. He shares how performing magic in restaurants during his teenage years laid the foundation for his success and explains the pivotal decision to transition from magician to mentalist before appearing on "America's Got Talent." Oz delves into the psychological techniques he uses to influence people's thoughts and discusses his bold move from corporate America to pursuing his dreams full-time. Kaitlyn challenges Oz to showcase his mind-reading skills live on the podcast, leading to jaw-dropping moments and heartfelt reactions. They also explore how Oz navigates skepticism in his industry and what continues to amaze him. Tune in for an episode filled with magic, mentalism, and inspiring stories about following your passion and achieving your dreams! If you’re LOVING this podcast, please follow and leave a rating and review below! PLUS, FOLLOW OUR PODCAST INSTAGRAM HERE! EPISODE HIGHLIGHTS (2:25) – Oz's first encounter with magic on a family cruise at age 13. (8:32) – Transitioning from magician to mentalist and going on "America's Got Talent." (13:21) – Leaving corporate America to follow his passion for mentalism. (23:43) – Kaitlyn challenges Oz to perform mind-reading on the podcast. (1:00:27) – What amazes even Oz Pearlman? Thank you to our Sponsors! Check out these deals! CB Distillery: Visit See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Okay, let's talk about the original enemies to lovers story. Before all of our reality TV couples, before the rom-coms, we binge, there was Elizabeth Bennett and Mr. Darcy in pride and prejudice. And Audible has just dropped a brand new original that will have you completely hooked, I am. It's not just any audiobook. This is a full cast performance. So Marisa Abella, you might know her from industry, brings Elizabeth Bennett to life.

And Harris Dickinson from Baby Girl and Where the Crawdads Sing is Mr. Darcy. And honestly, the chemistry, you guys, it's everything. Plus, you've got icons like Glenn Close, Bill Nye and Will Polter in the mix. Talk about a dream cast. Now, what I love is how Marissa pulls you right into Lizzie's world, her stubbornness, her wit, her messy family dynamics, and of course, her complicated feelings for Darcy. And with a vibrant new adaptation and original score by Grammy-nominated composer, it just feels so fresh and modern while still keeping that timeless Jane Austen charm.

So whether it's your first time experiencing Pride and Prejudice or you've read it a million times, you're going to fall absolutely in love all over again. So go listen to Pride and Prejudice now at audible.ca slash Jane Austen. I'm Caitlin Bristow. Your session is now starting. Hey, everybody. Welcome to Off the Vine. I'm your host, Caitlin Bristow. And today, I don't, I actually don't have words. I usually would record an intro and I'm actually just like speechless because O's Pearlman, who is a mentalist was in here. He read my mind. He blew my mind. You'll see it in my reactions. And we talk all about his journey of how he was 13 on a cruise with his family. He saw a magic show and he pursued magic and mentalism every day. And it shows. It's, I'm still shaking a bit. I seriously am. It was insane. You guys are going to be blown away by this episode.

Like, people know I'm, I'm really into magic. Did you bring wine? I thought you had, like, your own wine, too. I never know if it's, like, too early for someone. I'm not going to drink, but the more you drink, the better my show gets. Like, you can't meet people are like, can our audience drink? I'm like, please drink. Please.

Oh, that's so funny. I, well, I have two more podcasts after this. And then I have, like, a dinner tonight. So I thought maybe not get drunk at 11 a.m. But I also am coming off. a weekend on Broadway, which I was telling you about earlier. I don't ever go out on Broadway. I just, it's too crazy for me.

Like in my 20s, that would have been, I would have just been thriving all the time, but I'm 38 and I'm tired. And trust me, I was hung over on Saturday morning off two, like, glasses of tequila. Stop. And it was on an empty stomach. And I went to a friend's house because I was in the same building doing a show. And it was like three fingers of tequila. Very good tequila.

But I'm like, oh, I'm not going to suffer for this in the morning. And my kids don't care at 6 a.m. They're like jumping in my stomach. I'm like, oh, headache. This is so stupid. That's my girlfriend who I was with at a hockey game the other night. She was like, if I go out, I have a babysitter and then I have the babysitter and be up with them at six in the morning because.

Good luck with that. Yeah, that's, I can't even imagine. Like when my dogs bark to go out at 8 a.m. And I don't really get hung over, which is so bizarre. Drink a lot of water. I don't. You should. Oh, but I don't get hung over.

I literally wake up and I'll be like, I'm a little off, but I'm just tired. And so my, like, I don't even want to get up and let my dogs out at 8 a.m. I'm like, no. So I can imagine having kids jumping on you at 6 a.m. That's a hard no for me. Yep. Oh, Lord. Okay.

So obviously I'm going to be very curious about your journey to get to where you have gotten to because I know kind of like you're on a cruise with your family around the age of 13 and you kind of fell in love with magic. I saw a magician for the first time ever on that cruise. You know, when you're on those boats, they have the entertainment each night. Yes. One night is, you know, this guy. And one night is a comedian. And when they had the magician, he played multiple nights.

night. He had like one night. So when we saw him the first night, my dad, I think like bribed him. I think he's like, he's 50 bucks. Get my kid on stage. You know, it's his birthday. Yeah. And so they got me on stage because I don't, I got picked out at random. And I had a slight of hand magic trick done to me, which is called the sponge balls. It's a very popular. It's like these little red sponge. When you put them in your hand, they turn to two balls and they disappear and reappear and move around stuff. And it just, I was just shell shocked. Yeah. And I stalked this guy on the boat. You know, Because he's on the boat. He can't leave.

That's the thing about crew trips. Yeah. Where is he going to go? Yeah. So I found him two more times. And I was like, dude, show me more magic. And in hindsight, as now a performer, I'm like, I must have been the most annoying kid ever.

But it was the good kind of annoying in some way where it was obsessive. Yeah. And then when I got home, I just got fully into it. I went to the library. I checked out all the books. Started reading them. I went to borders, bought books. And then found there was a magic store in my neighborhood, like a 25-minute drive away in Michigan.

Royal Oak, Michigan. And that's when I started buying my first, like, tricks, you know, lyrics. Yeah. And then would you, like, perform for your friends and, like, birthday parties and you were the guy that did the magic? Full on. A few months later, my mom is not one for, I'm just going to buy you a bunch of crap. Like, you need to prove to me that this isn't some fleeting. You know, you buy a kid a whole guitar and a month later, he's like, I don't play guitar anymore. So I started doing birthday parties and I started working at a restaurant. So ever since I was about 14, I would always work at restaurants doing magic. It's kind of my first thing.

Yeah. And I credit it with so much of my success later in life because it's almost like people that do cold calling. Yeah. You know those people that are on street corners who make you stop with an iPad and you're like, oh, I'm too busy. I always feel so bad for them, yeah. Oh, you feel bad for them.

But imagine this is even worse if some like twerpy teenager, you're out to dinner. Yeah. You're at a restaurant. You got a babysitter. And there's like, this kid comes up to do it to do magic tricks. You're like, dude, get out of here. I would love it, though. You would if they were good.

Yeah. And if you were expecting it. So I think I learned trial by fire how to approach people that are skeptical, that don't necessarily want you and how to diffuse that tension and really learn people's body language, sales 101. How do you get someone to buy something from you who either doesn't know your product doesn't want your product or has no idea who you are, right? All three of those.

And my product's weird because it's like a magic trick. And keep in mind, call it attention economy. Me getting your attention was the value. Right. And so I think I learned over many years how to get people captured, how to speak, when to pause, like misdirection, all of these things that are kind of critical to what I do now for a living. And is that self-taught or did you undergo any formal training? I don't have any formal training when you call it. Like, there's no real school for what I do.

Yeah. There's people that do what I do and you can get a mentor, somebody who will take you in and kind of, you know, like karate kid style, wax on, wax off. Yeah. And so I knew a few people that did this who kind of would guide me in a certain way. And as I've gotten kind of higher up within it, I know all the people that do what I do at a very high level all over the world. So I know like the best mentalist in Singapore and the UK and Israel, there's a ton. And like, you know, Australia and Argentina and we all know each other. And we're such a small group that it's primarily, I would say everybody is friendly and kind of cheers on everyone's success.

There's a few frenemies here and there at certain levels and a little jealousy and stuff like that. But overall, I really do think that there's such a supply and demand that there's so much more of people that want to see what we do. And there's so few of the people that do what I do that we're not, I wouldn't say we're not competing. But if one person does something great, like if I go on and do something for an NFL team, I've created a market for all these other people that do what I do that now do other sports teams. Right. Because no one knew that market, and that kind of keeps happening. So I'm a very competitive person, but I heard something the other day, someone said to me, I'm going to have to look it up.

Okay. It's so good. Well, I can tell you one that I've, like, really internalized, which is compare and despair, which is so much of with social media now where everyone puts the best foot forward and it's everyone's trying to just get clicks and views and everything of that sort, that you can compare yourself. You will always find somebody. Yeah.

Richer, better looking, younger. Like, everything evolves. evolves. So if you don't derive a benefit from either, like, deciding what your goals are and achieving them or being better than you were yesterday, things that I have kind of the ability to do versus external sources I can't. So I used to compare all this guy's killing it and he's doing so well and always making good money and always do. And I just said, that's stupid because that brings you down. I just look at it and say, what could I do to get to that level or higher? And I use it as fuel now. And I really, truly, it's like a mindset shift that I don't look

it's somebody and be like, oh, screw them. I look at them and go, that's awesome. Yeah. I'm going to go for it too. Yeah. Like you said how there's not so many people that do that. So it's even more unique opportunity. Okay, I found the quote.

Just because someone else is winning doesn't mean you're losing. Right. I love that because I'm always like, oh, that person is doing this. I thought it said something about me when it doesn't at all. So that's cool that you say that because it is like I did this. I'm blanking on his name, Dan. He's a magician in New York. Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Great show. I did the online one. Yep. Yeah. The red balloon. Yes. Awesome. I didn't even know how to process it at the end that I just started crying. Wow. Like I just like, you know when you just have so many emotions? Yeah, it's great. Yeah. I'm sure that's what he was going for. It was crazy. But I feel the same way. Like when I watch, my girlfriend saw you on, it was America's Got Talent. Yeah, I was on there. My girlfriend saw you on that and she was like, you need to have this person on your podcast. So I went to look up your Instagram and I got the same feelings like, full body chills. I was just like, how did you go from like magic and being a magician into like a mind? What is it called mentalist?

Mentalist mind reader. Yeah. How did you do that? Honestly, it's, it's, it's, there's practical reasons. Yeah. And then there were, the practical reasons is that when you start doing shows that are bigger and bigger, you either need bigger props or you need things that play bigger. So what I mean by that is if I started doing a room for, from 75 people, or like 50 people in

someone's living room to, 250 people, nobody can see cards. Like if you're doing a card trick, it's like, I can't see those cards. Right. It's not big enough. So what you started do is finding tricks or routines they call them that pack small but play big. Yeah.

So what can you bring in a small suitcase if I don't want to check all these bags with all crazy stuff? So it became a thing that was practical where I did a little bit of mentalism, but I was a little scared to do all mentalism. Think of it as like your props when you're a magician are your crutch. Yeah. Right? It's kind of like it's a little nerve-wracking to go do a show with no

props because you go oh my god the props are what work and do the stuff it's like me when i'm traveling i need to have a zanax on hand i'm not going to take it i'm not going to take it but just knowing it's there is my little crutch there's your comfort zone so that that was my magic tricks at the time because the card tricks always work the mentalist tricks don't always work and there's elements of risk and kind of the more you get advanced with it the more stuff you do that's that becomes a bigger and bigger swing yeah so to answer that question i was slowly transitioning from doing magic to more and more of what's described as mentalism. And then at a certain point, when I did that show,

America's Got Talent, I made a concerted, like, strategic decision, which is the year before me, a magician had won the show. He was awesome. This guy, Matt Franco, a friend of mine. But if you look broad strokes, we look similar. We're like two white dudes in our 20s and 30s. So how much can you differentiate between the two of us? So I need to create, like, a barrier to be like,

that's this guy and I'm this person. And so that's when I went from being like, I was O's Perlman, whatever. magician and mentalist to owes the mentalist that's what became my social i like locked it in with all of them and that's when on the show i did all mentalism and it really set me apart where a lot of people i get this a lot where people will see a magic show and they'll just say oh i don't really like magic that much but i love what you do so they see what i do is a very different i want to call it kind of cerebral because magic can be seen as a puzzle like an intellectual challenge if i do a trick you're like i don't know

you did that but you know and you're trying to pull it off that you're smarter than me because I don't know how you did it right it's kind of like a puzzle yeah that's not what I do I'm not setting up challenges for intellect I'm kind of showing you the way that I've learned how to reverse engineer the human mind so people find it more fascinating because they realize there's a method versus a trick I think this is probably everybody just sits here and goes how like how do you do it is it body language is it like there's some body language there's a lot of misdirection. There's a lot, there's just, there's a lot of skills applied together. It's kind of like a chef where a chef knows how to, you know, do this, do that. Like I can, I can do French cuisine.

I can do American cuisine. I can do Thai cuisine. I can know I make a sauce. Like, I have a lot of tools that I use that I combine and that I know if you're going through a path, you know, like when little kids have those little, on a kid's menu, how there's like that little box where you try to get to the mouse gets to the cheese. So when you go through there and your brain at that, that moment just says, I'm going to go to the right. What made you go to the right instead of go to the left? And then when you got to this part, what made you do that? So you don't really stop to think about those things. What if somebody had spent years understanding where if I asked you to think of a color and you go, okay, I'll think of a color. And you're like, that seems so

spontaneous. But what if the way that I asked the color? And what if the things we said before that? What if all of those little tactics, which you didn't realize were designed to elicit a certain response. And so the same way that a really good advertiser, marketers, they have like ways that they've spent billions of dollars to try to get you to buy their product instead of that one right next to it. A lot of those same skills that are very subtle that involve kind of coaxing, influencing people. What if you could do that? And again, I'm not like saving the world or a CIA agent. I'm doing it in the guise of entertainment, but I can show you that I know how you think. And so that's the setup. That's what's so impressive.

people goes wow how could you've done this and I go well I've spent like years learning how to do it I guess so but are you ever scared like could you tell if somebody didn't like you I mean I think so yeah because I feel well maybe it's even obvious like if someone didn't like me I'd be like oh they don't really like me but could you be like they're thinking this about me yeah I think I can tell that a lot of the time yeah I like you I don't think I don't hate you don't worry I'm like very fascinated by you. I also found this fascinating that you were actually like in corporate America. Yep. And you performed at your own company party. Yeah. And then quit corporate America and went after your dreams. Like I need to know that process because it's one of my favorite

things when people do that. Like they, they just go follow their dreams and go for it and get out of corporate America. Not that there's anything. Obviously, we need corporate America. You do. Yeah. Here's where it comes down to. What is your calling? Like people I think realize it more more now is you have a finite amount of time. You make all the money in the world. You only have so many years alive. You never know how much that's going to be. And I think I hit a point where I didn't dislike my job. I wasn't digging graves or ditches. Like trust me. I didn't have a bad job. I worked on Wall Street. I made way more money than a 21 year old should have. But it was not my calling. So like when you fast forward in your life, you're like five years go by quick, 10 years go by.

And they go faster and faster as you keep going. I go, is this where I see myself forever? And the answer was no and everyone around me even knew it so that I was doing so what was funny I'll give you like a quick debrief my job was red tape okay I was bureaucracy I worked at a company where I would have somebody who's 20 years older than me a million times smarter than me say we need to buy all these servers to create these applications for the bankers we need three million dollars I go you have one million dollars and they hate me yeah like imagine you get off a call and everyone just hates you're like I hate this guy that gives me anxiety exactly but my job was designed to save money. So I was this annoying person who had all these rules. I was like customer

service within a company. And so what would take away the sting is we'd all go out to happy hours and then I would do tricks. And the people that hated me were like, this guy's not so bad. Exactly. Yeah. I like him. And so it was a great sweetener where when you give someone, you know, bitter medicine, if you could just insert it inside of honey or chocolate or Nutella, oh my God, it went down smooth. So long story short, within the company. I started doing parties because the party planners heard about me

from this person or that person and a lot of them knew who I was but at a certain point I went so high up the food chain that they would normally hire professionals they wouldn't hire like hobbyists you know it's not a talent show within the company

and so I did something for the second in command the CFO the company I did a magic trick where I turned a $1 bill into 100 and he just goes oh my God we gotta get you working here and I go I do work here and it was like this joke and he's Australian he goes

what the hell you doing work in here mate and it was one of those aha Oprah moments of you know whoa you know this is not even my boss's boss's boss this is like my boss's boss's boss's boss you know and he just saw it and everyone else saw it and and I quit it was about a month later and it's not this perfect story because I was younger I didn't have any kids I didn't have any responsibilities I had saved up a ton of money had all these jobs when I was a teenager doing those birthday parties and restaurants and saving money which gave me options later so that that if I went for it, you know what, timing is everything in life, but also a lot of the time

you can't jump in the pool if you're like sitting on the sideline. So it came to the point where I needed to go for it and be hungry. Yeah. So when I quit my job, day one was like, wake up on the couch. You know, I can wake up at 10 a.m. And I had no boss. Yeah. And I think that's both the best thing and the worst thing in my life.

Because if you're not out there busting your ass, no one's going to do it for you. there's no like oh i saw you you're going to be a star that doesn't happen in life no one that you think of that became a star just had it handed to them they worked their butt off they made their luck and so i think especially in some field like yours like people that now have content creation podcasts like there's so many avenues to amplify your voice and have people find you and connect with them and in mind it's entertainment and also provide value to companies but there's no playbook for success I don't have a book that says, A, B, C, D, you'll be a star and a millionaire. You have to find that out.

How did you go on America's Got Talent? Did you just audition? So I auditioned, but I auditioned multiple times. You did? That's also just a great lesson for people, which in hindsight, you was looking like, that was easy. You got on that show and you became, no. I tried to get on that show. And the first time I tried to get on, I had what's called a producer call, which is red velvet rope.

walk right in sir it wasn't the normal way you you apply is you either send in a video now with zoom they do it since coven or you go and do like a giant hanger or you know like this open space warehouse with thousands of people i give you a number go sit on a chair with like you know like football field size wait all day sometimes wait two days and then they call you in for a minute and a half yeah that's not the way i did it the first time the first time i actually got called by a producer somebody knew me which should be the best way because you don't even wait but it went terribly and not even my fault but again timing is everything they brought me in a room one PA like for those who don't know like a production assistant has like a headphone on he goes all right go ahead and do it and I go do

what I'm like I'm doing a mind reading thing like I need someone to help I didn't know that I'm just in front of a camera I can't just sing and dance so they bring someone in who's distracted who's not really into it goes terribly they don't react well they're like on a thing they're listening someone's like oh what do I do what do I just went really poorly and I knew it was shot. And then I went back two years later, those two years, I had done probably close to 500 shows, my confidence had gone up, you know, my presence.

Just put in those 10,000 hours and then some and improved. And when I got there, I didn't really care as much. I wasn't nervous. I just felt easygoing. And that one, I just killed it. Yeah. And it, you know, right time, right place. Yeah, timing.

I totally believe that. And then what's been your favorite experience? Like you've, I've seen you, like you were saying earlier, do football teams. You were on Sunday conversations with Caleb who does like the biggest celebrities of all times. And but there's got to be a moment for you that you're like this one, this moment or this person. What is it? There's a bunch. You know, if you were to put a kind of a timestamp as to, you know, before I was a boy and then I became a man, that kind of like vibe.

When I did the finale of America's Got Talent, it's live on TV. It's the highest rated show. it's at Radio City Musical, so you've got six or seven thousand people in the room. It's so high pressure because on live TV, there's a clock. When the clock ends, you're done. Do you see what I mean? And so if anything's going wrong, the clock doesn't stop. It's kind of like the Super Bowl for what I do.

And so the level of intensity and laser focus, but also if you're too focused and you look nervous, you're not loose. And much of what I do has to be loose or people get tense. doesn't work. And also, it has to look like I'm enjoying myself and I have to be enjoying myself or the audience can see through it. If I'm having fun, they're having fun. And so I think that was one of the biggest ones. There's been a lot since. There's been like all these steps. I had, I had my own TV show. We won an Emmy Award. That was crazy. Like, yeah, there's just all these things where, you know, the NFL stuff. I've met a lot of my heroes. I met like a few weeks

ago Barack Obama. I performed a show he was my opening act. And then I got to read his mind. you know and then he hugged me and it's like just you know it's like pinch me moments of i can't believe this is real life what was on a bomb's mind uh i guess the name of somebody was going to talk to the next day really yep i just hand him a business card and i said sir what an honor to meet you and he goes what's this and i go hold on i go you know think of someone you're going to talk to tomorrow and he goes okay and the other crazy part about this is he went on before me and then when i went to shake his hand and say hello he knew who i was so i was just there was just I was going to introduce myself, but like, it was like, what the F?

Like, Obama knows who I am right now. And he goes, you're amazing. I saw you on hard knocks. Like, what's going on right now? So that was very, it was kind of surreal. That is surreal. That's, for me, that was Jennifer Aniston knew who I was. And I was like, oh, my God.

Right? Put it on my tombstone. Rachel. Yeah, exactly. I love it so much. So obviously, we know about your, like, abilities. And I wanted to challenge you. obviously on this podcast to do something with me so that the people at home can see it.

Should we do it now or do you have any other questions? Because once we start doing crazy stuff, it's hard to go backwards. Okay, I do have a couple more questions now. No, but it's up to you because then once you do it, your mind is going to be melted. You're going to be like, Caitlin's going to be like, my mind has become jello. I don't even know what to say right now. So I could do it, but then you can't go back. Okay, I do have a few more questions.

Go questions first. Okay, okay, okay. I have so many questions, actually, but I'm picking and choosing because I really want to get to that. but you talked about earlier about a little bit of like skepticism in your industry or like when you perform for people. But how do you navigate that? Because I think, um, I love that. You do. Yeah, I love skepticism. What do you mean? That's, that's my favorite. I literally, but you don't, you don't see it. It's not skepticism to me is is someone is engaged. So when you look and you see

a show, hecklers, which to a degree, listen, I'll give you a great story at the end of this where I just did my second grade son's class and that's like next level. Hecklers are like, Open this hand. Show me that. I know he did this. I'm like, dude, give me a break, buddy.

You know, second grade hecklers are a different level than adult hecklers. But if someone's skeptical, what does that mean? It means they're interested. It means they're fascinating.

It means they're trying to figure out how you did it. I'm not opposed to that. Think of who am I at my core. I'm just a guy who wanted to figure out how this was done too. Right. But I took that to the obsessive nth degree

where not only did I learn how, but I learned how to do it. Yeah. So anyone who became a mentalist was very skeptical at some point because they wanted to know how is this done? Most people have a light fascination and what the death of me is apathy. If somebody watches my show and leaves an hour later like a popcorn movie and they don't even

remember what happened, that means I did a terrible job. If somebody's skeptical and they're like, he did this and he did this, I love that. So no, I, when I get on stage, I tell people, I'm the biggest skeptic out of all of you. And I go, let's try to debunk how I'm doing this because I'm not a psychic because I'm not a medium. Like I'm not supernatural. And I'm very clear at the outset and explaining that there is a method. It is something you could learn. It is a skill that is transferable. It is not innate or God given, but there is a talent. So when I explain that, like, think of somebody who can figure skate. I can't figure skate. I took my kids ice skating. I almost died like three times. So could I ever do a triple axle or whatever? No. I could do it for the next 20 years.

I don't have that gene. I don't have a music gene. But I could get better. So I have some sort of innate skill that I think has to do with reading people. I think a lot of it like my folks got divorced 13. I think like I had older siblings. I think there's certain things that helped me as a child become more intuitive. But it's not supernatural. It was just a skill. The same way comedians sometimes have really sad home lives. So what do they do? They overcompensate to make everyone laugh to take away all the like sad things that are going on. So I think with with what I did, I like that attention. I like seeing people amazed. And that was my that was my drug of like, whoa, they love that when I was 13.

Now I just kind of became Superman. So that skill, I think I got off track with your question, but I love when people are skeptical more than anything. I don't mind that at all because I think my job is converting skeptics. And so much of what's been amazing to me is I will meet, you know, humble brag, but like it's one of the joys of my job, some of the most successful, fasting, rich. Like I've just met all these people, presidents, CEOs of companies,

multi, multi-billionaires, people that have found, to the largest companies in the world. And these are hyper-intelligent people. And it's funny because I've learned this one niche field where they're blown away. And they're blown away because this is the thing. I've learned how the mind works. I want to learn how the mind works.

But I don't have the time. Writing a book. I'm writing a book right now. You put in a lot of hours and time in years. Yeah, what is your book going to be about? So the book is really how to apply the principles of mentalism to your everyday life. you know, skills and habits for success that you can do today, tomorrow, 10 years from now,

you're not going to become a mentalist because you know what, 99.999% of people don't want to, but what if you can go into a room and read people more effectively, right? Like you just said, what if you had 10% more skills and knowing how does this person feel about me? How many people want to raise at work? When's the right time to do that? What's really going on in your boss's mind, right? What if with your spouse or with your significant other, with your kids, getting a sense of when are they lying to you? When are they telling the truth? How do you engage them more effectively? Just skills that are useful.

How to become the most memorable person when you walk in a room? When I was 14 and I walked into a restaurant, the first thing I learned. How do you know everybody's name that you meet? Because how does that make them feel when you know their name and something about them and their family? Suddenly, that's like a superman or superwoman ability because you care about them. So all of these skills that allowed me to leave my job in corporate America, right? Everybody has a dream. What do you want to do that you're not doing now?

how do you get from A to B to C, those skills that I used are the same ones you can use. That's cool. I want to read that book. Knock on wood. Hopefully next year. Do you have a name for it? I don't want to say the name yet in case the publisher changes it. Fair enough.

I'm going to say it. And then you're going to be like, where's that book, by the way? That's fair enough. But that is the core of the book is never before revealed secrets that aren't going to make you a mentalist but give you the skills of a mentalist for your life. Does it drive your wife nuts or does she love it? her nuts on so many fronts that's all we could get into that in a whole different level she she'd get on the podcast and be like i wish she could read my mind more she's like why didn't you

take the kids why didn't you take out the trash read my mind ohs here's what i want you to do no i i can't read her mind i wish i could that's honestly i think that's why we're a good couple oh that makes sense what about what about the kids like i think i have a good sense in my kids i have four kids i know right busy holy shit four kids and you're traveling all the time i know i like that i like how kailin's from nashville and she's like you You have four kids when somebody from Nashville is impressed. Like in New York City, we're like unicorns. Yeah, totally.

I know. Yeah, but I'm also Canadian and I'm 38 and no kids. So I'm like, what four? Everyone's like, where are the kids? In Canada, we need them to keep warm. I'm an honorary Canadian. My wife is from Canada. Well, and you're from Michigan, right?

I'm from Michigan. Also honorary Canadian. That's true. When I was 19, we go to Ontario, to Windsor to drink. Oh, of course, because 19 was the drinking age. 18 where I was from, so crazy. Do the kids love when you do magic? I'm in this Goldilocks zone where my kids actually think I'm cool before in just a couple

years are going to be like, please, dad, stop, get out of here. You're embarrassing us. But no, it's really fun. Funny enough, they don't like mentalism to them. It's so boring because they don't really get it. That's fair. They like magic. So I'm known for doing, there's a few tricks that are, you know, my air quotes greatest hits.

Yeah. Pulling candy from ears is like the high watermark. That's like my Bon Jovi living on a prayer, greatest hits for them to date myself. but I did the biggest TV appearance I ever have done in my life. I was on before the Super Bowl last year. Oh my gosh. Yep. And I was on live TV before the Super Bowl, before kickoff.

I got off stage. It was a very difficult trick. There's the only way I can describe it. It was a little too difficult. I probably shouldn't have done it. And I get on FaceTime with my kids. I'm like profusely finishing sweating. I just like, thank God it worked.

And my son just goes, you know what? You just talk too much. Just do the candy out of ear next time. And it was just, it cut the tension so. well where it just brought me down. It's like, screw the Super Bowl. Yeah. $28 million people saw you.

He was like, just do that lollipop trick. You know. And my daughter, who's three, is like, yeah, yeah, Papa, do that one, do that one. Oh my gosh. That's adorable. Yeah, it was really funny. Also, holy, that's live before the Super Bowl. Yep.

What? It wasn't half time. Rihanna was half time. So I can't, I can't go that big. But that was still, still big. Whoa. Do you get so mentally drained after you do these things, too? I don't get.

trained, I get really focused. I think it's much, it's like an athlete. Like I actually run a lot on the side. That's my side hustle. But I, the same skills that apply to my career, I find overlap very much with how competitive I am with, with athleticism and like running and marathon and ultramarathon stuff. But the training is everything, which is the ideation. And then when I get to the start line or when I get on camera, that's when I'm, there's no nerves. Yeah. The nerves are gone. They're just like, you asked me when I met Barack Obama. Was there nerves? Zero. Interesting. Because I actually can't be nervous or the person will feel it

because you at your core you don't realize you've been trained since the moment from like a thousand years thousands of years of evolution fight or flight you can tell when someone next to you

has anxiety or nervousness you can feel that energy you can see it if someone's tense when they're doing something you can feel it and it makes you tense so have you almost like trained yourself

to not or is it just the same way that people can beat polygraph you know that the way people can be light textures is CI agents learn how to take away, how to reduce your heart rate, how to take away the nerve so that you trick your physiology, your body has to be trained to reduce your heart rate so that you can't feel it the same way that, you know, a dog can tell if you don't like the dog. If a dog feels that you fear it, you know, those people that walk in the room,

the dog doesn't like you and it's nervous and it's barking because you don't like it. It can, it's, in essence, reading your body language and your scent. So I've trained myself because if I get on camera and something's not going right and it's spiral, then it goes really bad, really fast. Like if the trick's going bad, it's like, whoa, whoa, this is going really bad. And you can't get out of it. So I need to take

charge. And even right then with like the president, there was no, there was no, I was in charge. As soon as we started talking, there wasn't a moment, I took charge. I go think of this, you got it, hold this. And I don't want to say I'm bossy, but I'm kind of driving. I'm the director of the show at that point.

Yeah. If the other person becomes the director, I lose my power, it might not work. Read my mind now. Read my mind. Dance, come on. How many people walk up to you and say that? Not often. It's so rare.

No, it's funny because first off, if I get noticed, if I get like, you know, quote unquote recognized, it's so few and far between that people will actually ask me to do something. They're more just like, oh, I love you on this or love you on this. But if we're trapped together, that's why on airplanes, if I'm sitting next to somebody and they're like, what do you do for a living? God help me. I'm not saying mentalist. I work in insurance. I'm an actuary. They're like, oh, we don't want to talk to you anymore. It's too boring. I even do the same thing.

I'm like, like, I'll be like, oh, social media. They're like, what do you do social media? And then I'll just somehow pivot and be like, well, I, I, like, help people get brand deals. Because I'm just like, I don't want to say anything because then it just, I don't know, but I'm also not a plane talker. Right. I'm a plain sleeper. So I'm just like, boom, mask. Yes. Your plugs, I'm out cold. But I was like, that's why I've trapped you in this room with me. right is so that you can read my mind let's say we talked about planes do you enjoy traveling yes what is your favorite type of travel is it work and pleasure or just unpluging can you do that or are you too

busy body i like unplugging and it's really good for me but i enjoy both work and play so let's say we could do a vacation let's you know what i'm going to change it because if you're doing work and play how about this you're throwing a party okay and i find that when you throw a party for someone else it's different because you've got to take them in the account. Let's say you're throwing a party for you. Hypothetical, it's your birthday. Okay. Okay.

And it is, you're going through the guest list and you're making a list and you're not really doing this. Okay. I mean, forget like actually writing it down. Imagine you're in your mind writing down people you would invite. Yeah. And you're looking through that list and you're saying yourself, oh, my God, this person, okay, see yourself doing this, that you take and you circle this one person's name and you go,

if they're not there, I'm going to be a bit disappointed. Can you see this person? You can visualize yourself. It's like deja vu. You thought of this person. Can you see them right now in your mind? Yes. Agreed that there is no way that I could know who this is.

Right. Whether you picked a man, woman, family, friend, like any of those things could have been, right? But I think right off the bat, you asked me body language, I think it's a female. Am I correct? Yeah. So that was 50-50. You're not blown away. I'm still a little.

But you're like, kind of, how'd you know? because I think you were saying yourself, I got friends and the friends are going to come in. It's a milestone. So that's going to be more people. It won't just be Nashville, folks. If she was having a birthday party, this person, how confident are you that she would invite you?

Very. Very? Yeah. Is there any way, tell your listeners that I could know who you just thought of or anything about this person. Nothing. And you didn't just think of one person. There are tons of people that you thought could come to your birthday party.

Just so we're understanding, folks. There's no way to know where your mind went. You thought if she was having a birthday party, would she invite me? Which means in your head, you go, oh my God, when is her birthday? Try not to react, but you're going to look at me and just think January, February, March, April, May. May is right now for people who are listening to keep going. Don't say June, July, August, September, October, November, December, 12 months, one out of 12. She's born in November, isn't she?

November, right? Okay, I'm going to write this down. My whole body reacts. Like, I feel like I'm going to throw up. I'm going to write this down, and you're going to tell them, can you see me writing down November right now? Yeah. And you're going to hear this marker writing November.

Yeah. And then November has 30 days. Thanksgiving is always at the end. I'm going to write down. Okay. I want you to close your eyes. Okay. And now, I know we're recording this on video.

So I have it on video just in case, but I just showed a camera. And now open your eyes. It's already written so nobody can say I changed it. I'm going to throw up. Question for you. You thought you knew her birthday. And then you were like, double-checking. You're like, oh, my God, am I right?

And you did know her birthday. Is that right? Yeah. That's even funny because you were on the fence. You're like, do I or don't I? See, I could tell you that you were shifty. It's already written. Tell us, what's her birthday?

The 21st? November 21st. I just turned it around. It says November 21st. I'm shaking. But how, like, what the, but how can you tell the 20? And then I think, I think that you guys are so close that you don't even call her by her first name. Am I right?

See, I think it's like, it's like, it's a nickname, isn't it? Is that right? It's a nickname. And it's like a, it's not even short. It's like something, a pet name. It's, it's, what is her full? And it's the same, she starts same later as you. Kay, it's cat.

Is it cat? Do you call her cat with a K? Yes. I'm going to cry. What? Yes. Crying 2.0. I love it.

I love it. Like my whole body. Dan, white out the waterworks. I'm getting nothing. No, I'm like in shock right now. Because, like, the dance stuff, I'm like, okay, it's on Zoom and, like, there's certain things that I think, but this, I'm like, how? How? I'm, how? But how would you know that? Right. So how do we read? We obviously got the month, then we got the day. And then you picked up the name. Like, so we wrote this. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Hold on. Wait, I want to try one thing, which is, I don't want to write anything down. I want you just think of this. I want you to imagine that you're at your bank. Okay.

And that you walk up and you're about to type in your ATM code. You know what? Imagine you lost your card, your bank card. Okay. And they call you and you have to redo everything. And I don't want anything that you've thought of before. I want this to be a blank slate. I want you to make up right this second a random four-digit pin code.

That's not a real code that used for anything that you've never like added up or used. Just like make it up right now so everybody knows this is spontaneous. Give me a fake four-digit code. Don't do one, two, three, four. That's like a silly one. Go. 4-280. Okay, 4-2-80.

Any meaning to that? No. This isn't like a date. This isn't like people's second 1980 or something. No. So you've not written anything down about this. You've not said anything. No.

You just set it right now. Yeah. 4-280. But right before you said it, I asked you to think of your ATM payment code. I just said imagine you're at the bank. And so that got in your head. That was kind of like, marinating.

Yeah. And then right after that, you had to give me a number. 4-280. Here's what I think. I think you avoided your real ATM pincode because you wouldn't have, if your real number was like 4, 5, 6, 7, you wouldn't have four because it would have been too close. So I know it doesn't start with a 4. I know it.

And I think what you would have done is not gone really close. So if this, this, with a 4 being the start, I don't think it's a 5 or 3. They're too close. I think they're too close. Are you okay if I try to guess your real ATM pin code? Your real ATM pin code. Yeah. Have you ever written this down, posted online, told anyone?

No. Okay. I think the four is wrong. I think it's bigger. The first number is a seven, isn't it? Yes. Which I think you like. I think it's a lucky number for you.

So I think you did a seven. Then you jumped the two. The two, the two is also close. I think you went bigger, which means you went one over to three. It's a seven and then a three, isn't it? this is scary and now and now i've actually gone to ATMs and stood in front of people and done this in front before they do their pin code and i'm going to just write down 8080 i'm going to cross

these out close your eyes i'm going to hand you the pad of paper okay tell everyone open your eyes it's face down so you can't see it grab it and hold it in your own hands holding your own hands before you turn around tell them you're already holding this i cannot change what i wrote down right it's in your hand yeah tell us all you said 4-280 in the moment spontaneous you had no idea we would ever talk about your ATM code what is your real code say it 739 9 739 take a look at what i wrote just kidding i was like wait maybe you made me think that maybe i'm wrong about my bank code i read 7399 i don't understand let's go to a chase there's a chase right around the corner let's go right now You can guess people's bank pin code?

Dangerous man. But how would you even... That is... I mean, I... What? I almost came up with a different number two, but I was just like, I'll just pick whatever comes out of my brain.

You know, how about this? We do a magic trick, a disappearing act. What if I just disappeared? Pow, like a little smoke bomb, disappeared. And I were to ask you, who is the number one person that you would love to interview, okay?

Famous person, let's call it number one famous person. You would love to interview. But number one on your list. Would you say that the number one person on your list would be an obvious choice for you? Yeah. So you think that people that listen to your podcast and know you would probably be able to guess this within three or four guesses? Yes. Okay.

Is it a man or a woman? Woman. And just tell us. I'm not going to guess it. If you say it's obvious, what is her name? Britney Spears. That's your number one person. Yeah.

And you haven't had a chance. No. So if that was your number one, and I were to say to kind of imagine you put names in hats of other people that are also, fascinating to you yeah could be men women dead alive whatever and i told you to shake it up and then that you you grab one of those out kind of at random and you open it up but not it you're not even random it's like a photo like you have a photo of this person right now and you can see this person but it's not brittany spears right yeah no and that person would be here would you agree this is a very random choice that you made yeah right fully yeah britney spears was your number one yeah yeah

I think that earlier, when I asked you to think of who you'd have at your birthday and you said, cat, I could tell was a female, I could just tell. Now I see the subtle shift. I see the change. And I think the person who you thought of, who you like, imagine just grabbing their photo and holding it in front of you and saying, oh, my God, I think it's a guy. Is that a man? Yeah. I knew it.

I think he's alive. Am I right? Yeah. I thought so. And normally, this would be way tougher because you would just have gone out because people are going to say, oh, it's so obvious because she told you. but I think this couldn't be more crazy because I think you were trying to throw me off the scent and you said, if it's Britney Spears,

you also thought of her dad, Jamie Spears. Is that who you thought of second? Yes. I don't understand. How would you even, what if you didn't know who it was? Would you still be able to guess? I mean, I've guessed people in different languages before.

So yeah. Can you like even give like a tiny hint of to how? Like how would you, how? The things I do to be a mentalist, Not as much, but my human lie detector, there's a few things I tipped so people can learn how to do it. But this is kind of, you've got to learn to crawl before you can walk, before you can run, before you can sprint. I, my whole, I feel like into my toes, into my heart, into my brain. Like, I'm like, like, like, shaking.

I've never, I've never, I've never, I've never been a part of something so crazy. Thank you. What? I don't understand, though. Like, you really, it doesn't make sense. it doesn't that's what I told you I said that's what I told you this is now I get why shaking Barack Obama's hand and he goes what's this card and I say who you're going to talk to this week think of anyone and he said my friend Marty I go really look at the card right now and he turned it over and said say hi

to Marty for me and it was just you know it was just did he lose his noodle I can't I can't post videos or anything it's all it's all off the record but off offline I will show you how freaked out he was yeah he was he was pretty because I had I had the prime minister of France Pinched my cheek. It was a surreal moment. I wouldn't have video. Nikola Salcozy, I was in Paris. And he goes, you, you are a very dangerous man.

It was just so funny. I was like, it was look at me like thinking, how can I use your skills? But that's what I was just thinking. We're not solving crimes. Does the CIA ever want to like, how, but could you? I'd be open to, to discussing with them. I don't know because they have people trained in some of the same things I do. So I don't think that necessarily.

Because I just think like you, there was so many people that I could have thought that I would be disappointed and I was I just went with the first person I thought about like how would you even know that's like you just in her birthday there's 12 months and then there it could have been 31 different numbers right and you just know like you just go 21 I mean also the funny thing is is what if you had thought of the wrong date which is always funny is what I have gotten the real date that was right yeah or what you you thought it was. That's a fascinating thing.

I'll get things wrong sometimes. I've had this at a lot of shows where I'll have a husband and wife sit next to each other and I'll guess it. And they're like, that's wrong. And the wife right next to me, that's who I was thinking of. And you're like, wait, what? And it's crazy because it's almost as if you had a radio station, you know what I mean? And the dial, you know when they're static and you hear two radio stations the same

time and it one pops in than the other? And I'll be like, this is so weird, but I don't realize I actually got it from you, not from him. and those types of things are kind of people are almost more shook up because you got it wrong but you kind of got it right so do you like see it in your brain? No I it's not a see it in your brain like

it's not like six cents dead people I narrow it down I narrow it down but like narrowing it down. I play like the game hot cold when you're a kid you know when you play hot cold and somebody hides something yeah you go hot hot cold cold hot hot hot so I can play that but a much much much more advanced version well yeah

it has to be because how like I'm sitting here thinking okay what if like how did we this is I don't even know how to speak how do you get to 21 like how did you see my brain going 20 and 21 like was I mouthing it was I no I was in that room you should try it sometime you should try it and see what you can come up with it's okay I'm funny when they try see if you can guess something one to 10 on somebody have them think of a number and see if you nail it and you'd be surprised I'm going to be your mind you'd only get it one out of 10 times but if you start learning techniques, you'll start hitting it three times, four times. You'll be like, whoa, you'll know that certain people do three or seven, and then you'll know certain cultures do with eight, and then you'll know

somebody who kind of was a little pushy, end up doing two, or like, there's all, there's, there's categories and ways, and there's things that you can narrow it down, right? You can, you can tip the odds in your favor. I'm going to guess, you think of a color. Okay. And I'm going to guess it. Go. Okay. So immediately you were going to say black, because I'm wearing black. So your brain went and then you went well that's too obvious so I'm going to switch it and you went yellow no damn it so no if you're going to do colors with guys they're always going to think of blue first or certain ones that are a little more alpha think of red first and then if you pause and give them a few moments before they answer they will switch the last moment from red to blue more creative types go with green you will find less than one out of 50 people that's a guy will pick a yellow or purple like non primaries are very rare but again, that's very subtle that you're not going to make a living off that, but you can definitely try that. Like, did you have to...

If you ask someone to think of a color versus say a color, you'll get a different response also because what people think and what they say is completely different, as we all know. Thoughts are different than what people say. There's a trick that I've to teach people, which is called magician's choice, which is you lay as many objects as you want on a table. Yeah. You just take out your ring, your phone. You're like, oh, my God, I have like a lip liner.

You just put all stuff on the table. and I would just look and I could write down one and put it right there and say 100% pick up any one of those you want and with 100% certainly I'll know which one you'll do and it's you know it's not it's not like you're not going to be on TV with that but it's mind-balled it's like how did you know

I could have picked up this one or this one I go you think you could have but you're very easily influenced and the way you laid them down and the way you handled them gives you clues as to what people will do and then if somebody if you can tell that you give

it up as a challenge and go pick up anyone you want or change just by me saying that you'll now go oh well I was going to pick up my phone but that's so obvious so not the last moment I'll pick up my keys and I knew you would do that I knew that saying that would make your mind do you understand kind of like the way you know how kids lie like a kid will lie to you where you'll see them eat something did you eat that no and I'm like but I know you did yeah and so if you position it differently you can kind of suss out when they'll tell the truth when they'll lie did you have to like research me or like study me in any way and go through my social media to like get a sense of like so that's I don't really tell people what to do but people that are watching will

know that I might have looked you up right but then when I do shows with hundreds of people thousands of people there's no way to do that but I always I don't mind that I don't mind that because that's the skepticism says even if he researched you it's like even more concerning you're like how do you get my pink pincode now I'm a little worried now I'm like a little worried I got to call my Wells Fargo right now. But no, I mean, how things that are spontaneous, even if we research you, how would we know that you would have changed your mind twice from Britney Spears to someone else to someone else and then ended up on Jamie Spears.

Yeah. Kind of a. No, there's no way. There's, I don't mean research as in like you would have known that's who I would say. I mean like just to get my vibe even. Sure, which is more of, you know, I mean, I guess. Plug all of your stuff into an algorithm and have it spit out like what would people do, right? That's kind of what is interesting with computers now is, are we getting to that point

where Amazon knows what I want to buy before I buy it? Yeah, yeah. That kind of predictive algorithm. Yeah. It's similar in certain ways to what I do, but I do it in the moment. So I don't really have the luxury of looking people up. And even when you look people up, does that work? No, because it's all, that's an illusion, Instagram.

Yeah. That's crazy. Yeah, because I even say that with like mediums that I've gone to. People are like, well, you can easily Google you and look into this. And I go, yeah, but she doesn't only use. do people that are on Instagram. Right, right. You just don't hear about those people as much because they're not sharing that.

But like somebody who doesn't even have Instagram or you couldn't, like, they don't just do famous people or recognizable people or people you can research. It's crazy. But people have a certain bias where they, they remember the hits and they forget the misses. Yeah. So if you go in like that, you're only going to talk about the things they did that were amazing. Yeah. And the four or five things that were like, well, what about I'm sensing somebody named John and

you're like, when you're not? no, and you're like, you just move on. Yeah. So you don't layer into that. Well, no, you got that wrong. Yeah. That's wrong. Like, you're not making a checklist.

So where, like, if you've gotten to this place and, and every year, you somehow find a way to get better and evolve and grow into this, like, insane mind reader and everything that you do, where the heck are you going to be in five years, 10 years? Like, what do you hope? Ten years is, like, so hard to map out. But the three to five year window, I can really see what I want, which is just to continue. you amplifying where most people don't know what a mentalist is. Yeah.

And so there is, there is like a blank space, so to speak, versus if you're trying to be the best quarterback, if you're trying to be the best magician, or if you're trying to be the best singer, like everybody knows who those people are. I have a field that's somewhat untapped and unknown in the U.S. Yeah. So even if people listening to this might be like, I never even heard of a mentalist. Yeah. So it opens it up.

So I would love to keep kind of growing and building that and eventually build it to where people know what it is. and I would love to be the household name at what I do of people, always the mentalist. Like, this is what a mentalist is. This is that subset of entertainment, infotainment, kind of blowing people's minds. You kind of already got there, though. Well, you know, it's like a snowball that just goes down the mountain. It's going to keep growing, growing until it gets to the point where it can't be stopped.

Yeah. So I do a lot of stuff with sports teams. I do a lot of stuff in the corporate sector, a lot of stuff within, you know, finance. I do like CNBC Fox business. Just I've targeted certain industries and, and, fields that are still growing. Sports keep getting bigger and bigger. I wonder if there's a space that you could get into where it's like helping heal

like somebody who's got like a drug abuse or drinking problem. No. It's not really therapeutic. So there's not really, it's akin to hypnosis you can kind of use in that way. I don't really, I don't want to be disingenuous and ever try to do something where my integrity's on the line. I entertain people. What I can do is provide kind of moments of wonder.

and memorable moments that you share with other people. And I think there is a real value nowadays. Like think of comedians. Comedians aren't healing anyone. Yeah. But how badly do we need comedians nowadays where everything's kind of very woke? Yes. We need that discourse.

We need to break through. I think what I provide on a lot of levels is showing you that your mind is more powerful than you believe that things that you could be so smart. I meant, you know, like people, Nobel Prize winners. They are infinitely smarter than me, Kaelin. And yet I have found some sort of niche where they can't explain what I'm doing. Right. And I think that that's a fun place to be because that's what we love with athletics. That's what we love. We love to see things that excite us. Yeah. Right. Something different where you walk out

fired up. That's what I like to be for people. You did way more for me this morning what a coffee could ever do. I am fired up. I'm fired up. You are incredible. Like it's such, I know it's not like a God given gift or whatever and you've worked really hard, but like you make it seem like just a natural gift. Well, thank you. Wow. I'm, that's the skill. You know, when you're watching the Olympics and they do those dives and they do like six flips and three twists and they just like no splash yeah you're like that looks impossible you go try that I'm gonna do like one belly flop and come out red and dead I think that that's the skill is making it look so easy yeah and I think that's where the years and years of you haven't seen the the parts where it wasn't so smooth and it got better

and it's kind of like polishing a stone yeah and I think that's really there's one trick that I do that's kind of I've done it more than anything else which is I just guess a number between like one to a hundred and it's just the simplest one and it looks just you did nothing you just guessed it and it's the one that's taken the most years and i could write a book on it i could write 20 pages on how i do something that takes me 20 seconds to do yeah but it you know it's kind of a side but i think that's kind of the joy when you ask me five years from now is to just get better and better do you ever see that movie hero dreams of sushi where that guy does this he's a sushi chef in in japan you should watch it in Tokyo and he spends like he has these

apprentices who spend years just learning how to make the rice before they even get to cut the fish it's J-I-R-O dreams of sushi or won a bunch of awards it's just incredible what people will dedicate their lives to for the like sake of perfection yeah not neither good or bad but there's something about it that you watch and it just like captures you well and then you probably go and eat sushi and respect it more of the rice is like so much more so it's interesting because I always find that too when somebody like that we don't see all the hard work of the years like that you started at 13 that you've made mistakes that you've dropped balls that you've bombed things like we don't see all that but now we get to just like like I now I'm just going to go back and watch all your

stuff and appreciate it even more because I learned about you yeah you're going to wormhole where can people go in a wormhole to find you um I would say the best place Instagram yeah YouTube also my Instagram handle it looks like Oz so blame my parents an Israeli name but it's pronounced O's, but it's at OZ, the mentalist. I post TV clips all time. I post where I'm touring, where to see me next. This coming fall and summer, tons of stuff with the NFL, tons of stuff with ESPN. That's been a real sweet spot for me, college football also as I go to these teams, I kind of do a show for them. I do a lot of team building stuff, get them empowered, get them really fired up like you said.

Create that moment in the room where this new team creates that cohesive element where they talk about it for the rest of the season. And really just blow them away, have fun, let them be kids again. And then they air it on all these networks. And you get to see these athletes that you're a fan of, that you don't really see them as themselves. You see them playing football. You see them playing sports.

But you don't get to see them being just a person. Yeah. And letting their guard down. And I think that's where the value's been that like whole stars are like us. We all know everybody is a person. But when you get to really see it and see them react like blown away and laugh and be a kid, I think people really enjoy that. Okay, this is my last question.

What blows you away? Like, what do you see where you're like, that blows my mind, like something that, you know, I just feel like your mind wouldn't be easily blown. You'd be like, yeah, but I want to know. You know, I just, I take, I love people that do things exceptionally well. Like, I love to watch greatness. I like to see somebody that's worked for decades on something and is, you know,

but I'll never forget, for example, the Olympics, Michael Phelps, Usain Bolt, like some of those epic, epic, epic. world record moments, knowing the sacrifice, the years of like, you're in the pool every day 5 a.m. Everyone else is going out, drinking, having fun, eating, nope, that sacrifice, that focus. I kind of try to channel that. Yeah. And I just like to kind of push my boundaries. That's what I do. I like to run ultramarathons, like these 100 plus mile races. And I just like to see what can I do next? What, you know, I just can't rest of my laurels. You ask me, what am I doing five years from now?

I want to be better than I am now. Yeah. Yeah. I like that answer. that's yeah you've just that's just who you are as a person I feel like you've probably always been that way I've always been very motivated yeah and I always consider myself to be very lazy my wife would probably say that I am actually lazy people from an outside perspective like you did two shows you ran 20 miles that day it doesn't seem lazy to me but I'm like I feel lazy but I that's funny I feel the same way I am always going I'm very motivated I do so many things and there's like not really many days I can think of that I just have a day off yeah the idea of just say and watching Netflix for five hours seems amazing but never happens but I also feel lazy yeah

interesting I think that we have like a clock within us like when I worked in corporate America and I had this moment of realization of I don't want to say this is it but what's my goal yeah right what's what is it just to make more money yeah is it to climb the next ladder like all those are great things right security stability putting a roof over your you know being able to feed your family like trust me that is not something to take for granted but is that all it's about out. Right. You know, one day you're going to be on your bed or I don't know where dying breath. What are you going to look back at and what really mattered? And I think you have to have things that you wanted to achieve that are goals, whatever they might be for you. But it's mapping them out,

doing the hard work and achieving them. And I think that's what you will look back at and think of like, this is what I'm proud of. That's the perfect way to end the podcast. I love that message so much. I try and preach that same thing. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thanks for having me. Time to come up on my house. I will call Jamie Spears and get him on here next. I need to know everything. But it's literally I want to just get into his mind because I want to know I care about Brittany. The custodianship, right? I care about Brittany. Oh my God. Thank you so much, truly. I'm Caitlin Bristow. Your session is now ending. And if I'm being honest, I wouldn't mind a rating and review.

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