Off The Vine with Kaitlyn Bristowe - Rachel Lindsay: Getting Comfortable Being Uncomfortable

Episode Date: August 17, 2023

These two former Bachelorettes were long overdue for a chat and luckily, their convo is recorded for all of the Vinos as they catch up on Bachelor Nation, relationships, social media, and what’s next. Host of two podcasts, author, attorney, and all-around amazing human being Rachel Lindsay is uncomfortable right now… and that’s OK! She explains to KB why she’s leaving a long-term gig and the fears that come along with that decision. She also reveals what she hopes is next for her in terms of both her career and her marriage, a relationship she chooses to speak about on her podcast but not often displays through social media. Kaitlyn and Rachel always feel like they need more, but often pausing and taking a step back to reevaluate life is necessary, and they discuss what pausing looks like and what it can bring up. Plus, Rachel confesses how she was almost a part of Charity’s Bachelorette season and why she decided to ultimately keep her distance. Stay connected, Vinos! Watch on the Off The Vine YouTube channel  Follow on Instagram @offthevinepodcast  Join Our Off The Vine Facebook Group  Thank you to our sponsors! Check out these deals for the Vinos: DRAFT KINGS - Download the DraftKings Casino app NOW, sign up with promo code VINE, and new customers get a deposit match up to $100 in casino credits when you deposit $5 or more! Gambling problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER (Michigan/New Jersey/Pennsylvania/West Virginia). Please play responsibly. In partnership with Hollywood Casino at Charles Town Races in West Virginia. All games regulated by the West Virginia Lottery. In Connecticut, help is available for problem gambling call 888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org. 21+. Physically present in Connecticut/Michigan/New Jersey/Pennsylvania/West Virginia only. Void in Ontario. One per opted-in new customer. Min. $5 deposit. Max match $100 in casino credits which require 1x play-thru within 7 days. See terms at casino.draftkings.com/playerschoice. Restrictions apply. 90 DAY: THE LAST RESORT SESSIONS - Listen to the 90 Day: The Last Resort Sessions podcast wherever you get your podcasts. NUTRAFOL - Nutrafol is offering my listeners $10 off your first month’s subscription and free shipping when you go to Nutrafol.com and enter the promo code VINE.  ROCKET MONEY - Cancel your unwanted subscriptions – and manage your money the easy way – by going to RocketMoney.com/OTV . ANGI - Your home for everything home.  See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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and free shipping when you go to NutraFol.com and enter the promo code Vine. Rocket Money cancel your unwanted subscriptions and manage your money the easy way by going to RocketMoney.com slash OTV. And Angie, your home for everything home. I'm Caitlin Bristow. Your session is now starting. I've got a real treat for you today because we have the amazing Rachel Lindsay on the pod. You probably know her from her journey as the first black bachelorette, but she is so much more than that. She is a powerhouse advocate for diversity, equity, and inclusion in the media, a host of the thought-provoking higher learning podcast and morally corrupt podcast, author, attorney, and an all-around inspiring woman and an amazing friend. I really think you're going to enjoy this conversation between us.

I'm like in a dream right now. Last night when I got in, I flew in from Nashville. First of all, I had a whirlwind of a weekend. So my four Canadian girlfriends came into Nashville. And Nashville's so hard because when people come to Nashville, they want to get after it. Yeah. And I'm always the ringleader who goes, okay, let's freaking go. I'll take you here. I'll take you here. And you feel that pressure. Oh. Yeah. And I got to show them the best times. And so we went, I don't know how to describe it. It was like a male burlesque show. Like, let me just show you a video of what was happening. I saw a man's wiener at one point. Oh. But it was also, like, wildly impressive. So, look at this. This was your first time at this? Yes.

Show. Oh, my gosh. This is in Nashville? To the cameras, to the people at home. Yes, in Nashville. And then there's this one scene. This guy just picked up. He's just holding onto his head.

Oh, my gosh. It's really impressive. Do they step off the stage and make their way to the audience? Some of them do, but it's like a whole skit from the moment you get there and sit down. So this guy I know, his name's Chuck Wicks, and he's a country singer in Nashville. Doesn't it sound like just a country singer Nashville? He was inspired in Vegas and he's like, Nashville has nothing like this. Let's put something together in Nashville. You go in, it's theater style. You get popcorn, drinks, sit down and it's starting. Like there's characters walking around already in character. Some of them are acting drunk. Some are flirting. Some are doing this. And they do this whole show for an hour and a half. And it's like, really. really impressive, and it's called Shiner's. Okay. Yeah. I feel like I've only spent a couple of times in Nashville, and there's so much to, clearly, there's so much to learn.

I'm telling you, I've never seen anything like it, and it was nothing like what I was expecting. I thought it was going to be like a magic mic show, but like the talent was incredible. They had a contortionist. Cirque to So-Lay. It really was. They got it. One of the guys is from Cirque to So-A in Vegas. I see it.

They don't travel. You're just going to have to come to Nashville. Like, look at how this one guy. was talking to me on the couch. Stop. Wait, is this like during half time? What is this? After the show, after the show, you go down into a club that has bottle service. Stop. And all the cast that comes around and hangs out and talks and you get drinks. And it was the craziest. So we did that. I know your girlfriends were like, thank you. Oh my gosh. They had the best time. And then after that, they really wanted to go

sing karaoke. So we went to this place called the Wild Beaver, where you ride bulls and sing. And so, yeah. and it was so busy. I was like, oh, God, there we go. Now I understand why everyone has their bachelor at parties here. Oh. There's so much to uncover in Nashville. It's actually bananas. There was probably 10 different bachelor at parties in this bar, and I had to wait like two hours to get up on stage. I felt very humbled. I was like, I just pay someone to get me up there now. No, okay. Sanctuary, Twain. And then the next morning, Maggie, my assistant goes, Caitlin, you know, you're flying out at three today. And I was like, what? I thought I was flying out tomorrow. No. And so I had to like do a little Cupid shuffle home and figure it all out. And then I got here last night. And for some

reason, I had mad anxiety. Like it was the first time because I've been off social media for eight days and it was the first time that my anxiety was creeping in. And I was like, no, no, no, no. Because usually I only get it if I'm hungover or if I'm on my period. And I'm either one of those things. And so I took a little thing called laurasopam. And I feel like I'm still in a dream. Okay. So you have that like that like buzz, kind of like that. Do you ever, have you ever microdosed? Yes. Now I would like that feeling. Oh, is that not the feeling you have? Okay. Okay. This feels like I'm half asleep, like a couple brain cells missing from the weekend and I don't know where I am or what time it is. And I'm just, you're all the man. It's okay. I woke up bright eye,

bushy tail this morning, did a workout and now I'm like, if it makes you feeling better, I can't tell. Okay. I'll try to keep you awake. Okay. Keep me awake. Don't bore me, okay. Don't bore me, okay. don't bore me here today. I'm so excited you're here. I haven't talked in so long. This has been a long time coming. It really has been. I was trying to think of the last time we podcast and I couldn't, but I have so much to just talk to you about or ask you about because I'm like, first of all, how's Brian? Brian's good. Now, something that I found, and I talked to this lady who's a social media trauma counselor, and she talks about how pressure of relationships on social media can destroy a relationship without even being in the public eye. You're always feeling like you need to show everybody, you know, how happy you are and you know exactly how it is. And then it's just all amplified with social media. So I was telling her that I truly think part of the reason Jason and I have not worked out is social media played a part in that. Yeah. Whether that's, you know, not like cheating or anything.

Yeah, yeah. But just pressures or feeling like we're putting on like a performative show or just how have you guys dealt with that? because I know that's something that, you know, people always assume because you have your career and you're posting about your career and you once in a while post about you and Brian, but you've always been a little more on the private side with that, which I love, which I'm going to take notes about for next one. But how do you guys navigate that with all the pressure of social media and the noise? We did it pretty quickly because for the very same reasons you said of like you do, especially when you, well, for us we came off the show for you guys when you first got together, you feel the pressure like we have to show people, you know, how we're doing. And because they want that, right? They fell in love with you guys as a couple and they want to see how you're doing and they want to check in and they don't always get that.

And so, you know, you feel like you have to perform. And I remember, I remember being in public at like, I don't know, like a grocery store. And I felt like people were watching us, watching our conversation, watching. Yeah. And I, there was a story that came out about like us waiting for an Uber and Brian was like walked away for me. And I don't even remember why he walked away. He might have just got to throw something away. Maybe he had a little stoop. You know, maybe I'd have to go for a fart walk. Yeah. Let's out some air. That's what I always say. Let out some air. Let out some air.

And they blew it up into this whole thing. And I just remember saying, okay, Brian, I just, I felt anxiety to have to perform for people. I don't even know. And they don't even know me. And then I'm only giving them a piece of what our relationship is, which, you know, a relationship is up and down. Like, you go through seasons all the time. It is work and hard work. I just didn't want to do that. So very quickly, we decided, yeah, we're only going to share what we want to share. But people still criticize us for that. I know. There were like months that went by where Brian and I didn't post and everyone assumed that we were breaking up. They were counting how long it had been since we post each other,

how long we had liked each other's posts. And I was like, I don't even pay attention. I know. I'm too present in real life. I'm a terrible social media person. I actually wish I was better. I do. I do because I'm losing money. To be honest. But that's, I've talked about that so many times where I'm like, losing money to keep your sanity with social media is like the best thing that you can do. But I totally hear you because Bachelor World, of course, they watch you fall in love and they watch you go through this. And then they do feel entitled to keep up with you. And I do feel a responsibility to share that because I'm like, oh, it's like our own little show now. like they edited us and we can now do our own thing. And I really loved sharing about it. I loved doing it with Sean. I loved sharing it with Jason. And now I'm like, well, fuck that.

I'm not doing it anymore. Don't do it. Because you feel like you have to answer to every single thing. And I will be honest, I could make so much more money if I put Brian and I, you know, like our business out there. But we share what we want to share. And I think that that makes it even more special. And I think that that has probably contributed to some success in our relationship. I don't even know the last time I posted Brian. As long as you're not concerned about it, nobody else needs to be concerned about it. And that's, it's just so interesting to know that we live in a world where people care about that kind of thing. You're saying like it keeps it more special between the two of you and sacred.

And that was a big takeaway I had from this podcast I did with this lady, was she calls them inside treats. So say you and Brian had a song. And it was this song that meant so much to the two of you. It was your song. And it was like every time you put it up. on you like danced in the living room or something and it was like this magical thing between you two well then you share it on instagram because you're like oh look how cute we are this is so cute people who love this and then it takes away from that inside treat between the two of you and now

you are giving that special moment to a lot of people and now they're consuming it as media and then they get to you know have a story about okay well they did this so they must be okay here and like it's just giving away those inside treats where i just don't know if there's some sort of healthy medium or balance for me because I do love over sharing. It's okay. It's okay. I'm like, how do I do it? I don't. It's almost odd that I went on a reality TV show because I am more private with my personal life, which is why when people say, are you going to do another reality show? I don't want people to know where I live, who I hang out with, what I drive, where I just, I'd rather do something else. I'll host a show. That's it. I'm like all of the things

you just said, and I'll host a show. I'm like, see, I want to, like, give a house tour. I want to. But it's, it's your personality. And I think that's what people love so much about you is that you are so inviting. It's a gift and a curse, right? Like, people do get on to me for not sharing enough. Oh, it's just her career. And it's like, well, that's just what I'm choosing to give you. Yeah. Think of those people at home. They probably don't share anything, but they're expecting to be in the know of everything in your life. They feel entitled to it. Entitled as a very. good word to use for people on the internet. And I mean, I'm not speaking about all. Some are so, you know, incredible. Most are. Most are. I'm sure you feel the same way because how old are you? 38. Me too. Oh, okay. We're the same age. I think I knew that, but I forgot until I just got

really excited. Because it's rare in Bachelor Nation. Yeah, it is. I already so much younger than us, except we're getting up there with Gary, the Golden Bachelor. I'm like, I was more connected to the women on his season. I got to host a date on it and I was just like, these women are awesome. Oh, my God, they were awesome. All righty-there, Vinos, now step into a world of non-stop action on Draft King's Casino. You can play the classics like Blackjack, I love Blackjack, roulette, and slots, plus enjoy exclusive games that you can't find anywhere else. And right now, new customers can get a deposit match up to $100 in casino credits when you

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That's crazy. So what do you think the next six years for you, too, will look like? Ooh, that, I mean, I hope, what I hope for are kids. Yeah. I hope that we work less because Brian's, you know, he has his practice out here. So if you are in that shameless plug, if you're in. in the L.A. area, you know, go to Beverly Hills Disc and Laser Center. I think I got that name right. Get adjusted. Get his treatments outside of that. It's great what he offers. But, you know,

he's by himself. So he's working super long days. I'm, I've actually taken a step back. We can get into that later, but taking a step back from work. But now I'm in like a very lost where I'm like transitioning phase. But I just hope that we have kids and I hope that we're focused more on, I mean, we're working now for something bigger. So I hope we've built the bigger and we can spend more time growing the family. That's really it. And like a little bit more stability. It's hard in this industry for you and me, not necessarily for Brian, but for us to have stability and feel comfortable. You know, I feel like something you and I share is that we have this insatiable appetite to always be striving for more. You never want to feel comfortable in

this industry because there's somebody younger, more talented, prettier. coming up, and it's hard to feel confident in what you bring to the table when you're seeing all this other stuff out there. So I hope that I find some balance in that. That is going to inspire me to feel the same way, because somebody just asked me earlier today, they're like, you've got a lot going on too. And I'm like, I want more. I want more. We are never satisfied, ever. I'm like, I want more. Why, if I'm not pushing myself to the ground, then I'm not doing enough. Exactly. And it's so hard to not have that mentality because it really is who we are as people. But a healthy thing to do is, you know, take a step back, realize what really is going to make you happy and somehow try and find balance, even though I don't believe in balance. But that's another thing that, you know, now I'm single. It sounds so weird saying that. 38. And now I'm like, well, when the fuck am I going to have a family? Like, and it breaks my heart because not only is they're pressure, so much pressure from the, you know, not even just the outside world, but your own

body. Yeah. Pressure from my own body to be like, bitch, can't really do this in like too many more years. And then it's scary. So I don't know. I'm like, obviously, so many things in life are changing. And women are having babies later in life. And I do think that's incredible because we're able to chase our dreams, go after our careers, have our moment and then be ready to be, even show up as a better mother. But I don't know when it's going to happen for me now. But you know what? I feel like what makes us great is because we are always striving for more and for, you know, to better ourselves.

And I think, are you an impatient person? Very. Okay. I'm extremely impatient and I'm a control freak. I'm not a control freak, but I'm extremely impatient. Well, that's good you're not a control freak. I'm a control freak with myself. Okay.

But not other, like I'm a control freak on, no, I wouldn't even say that. No, I'm not a control freak. See, I am with myself, but also with. with situations that I am attached to. I want to be, and when I fear that I'm losing, I'm an enneagram 8. So when I feel I'm losing control, it makes me go crazy. And that's something that I'm working on in therapy. Yeah.

Pause for therapy. Yeah. I'm working on that and realizing, this is something my therapist said to me. He said, and I'm speaking this to you about like, because I feel the pressure, like, 38, oh my gosh. I don't even have eggs frozen, you know? So it's just a lot. And he's telling me as I'm in this transition phase, this is truly, and this is so scary

to think about the first time that I've ever actually had time to be still and deal with my reality. I've always escaped it through work. You know, like I've never had to really worry about money. And now that like I have my only job right now is podcasting really, that I'm, I have way more time on my hands and I'm freaking out. Like I wake up. I still wake up at the same time.

I'm every morning like I'm going into work. And I'm like, what do I do with my day? Who do I need a call? Who do I need a message? Who do I need to have a meeting with? Rather than dealing with, okay, this is a gift that you have time and you have space and you can actually figure out what's next and what you want, but it makes me so uncomfortable. I get that.

I mean, that's what therapy will tell you all the time is to be comfortable with getting uncomfortable. And you're so good at it with like work, though. And it's just the life balance of being present. present with yourself and being still and not hustle, go, go, go, because it really does force you to go inside. I've learned so much about that, too, because I feel like I'm in the same position. I'm like, okay, I've got my podcasting and my wine label, and I'm closing down due. So it was profitable. It was amazing. And I'm like, I'm a failure. No. Oh, no. No, it's so stupid.

I know what you mean. So in therapy, it was so interesting because my therapist told me that my self-doubt, like, she's like, you have this confidence. where you know and your intuition is you know but you self-doubt that and then you go backwards and then because of your self-doubt you that helps you create a scenario that doesn't add up but it puts blame on something else like and you just go well i'm just going to go back on instagram like yeah numbing numbing numbing instead of being like okay why do you do that kately like why don't you trust that gut and that intuition and that confidence because i have it and some days it's it's really there and some days I go oh no you piece of shit you suck but I do the same thing and I like

to talk about that because people are like oh you have it so together and I'm like no I don't I'm such a hot mess so for you you go to Instagram for me I'll just like leave this the city and go hang out with friends or I'll you know I don't know go not out to the club but like go to dinner and like let's go grab a drink or let's go to a concert and I distract myself because I don't want to deal whatever it is I'm feeling. Yeah. I hate to be uncomfortable. I'm so, I'm uncomfortable now.

Like, in life, I am in a very uncomfortable space. And is that because you don't know what's next or is it because? Yeah. So what did you step back and step away from to give yourself? Oh, so you're not with extra anymore. I have like 10 more days. I'm not full time. I haven't been full time since June.

And part of that was I needed to step back because it was, it's a very chaotic schedule. And then part of that was knowing my worth and not seeing it recognized in the space that I was in. And that took me a long time to admit. And it's probably the first time I've ever saying it out loud publicly. But I needed to do that for me. Good for you. And so three years there, I've like 10 more days, 10 day countdown from today whenever this comes out. And yeah, so that was a huge part of my schedule.

But I've been able to focus my energy more on things. that I'm passionate about, like with my podcast and the topics that we cover, and figuring out what does the next step look like? But that's scary because for three years, I didn't have to think about it. I was just on autopilot, and I'm not on that anymore. So yeah, extra has changed for me. I'm not, if anybody follows me on social media, hopefully you do. I'm barely posting. People have been writing, are you okay? Now people think that it's my relationship. Of course. And I'm just like, I'm just very present.

I've been traveling. I've been seeing family. I've been with Brian's family. I was on a ranch for four days where I was completely detached. It was the most, it was adult camp. It was in Texas. In the middle of nowhere. It was the most fun thing that I've ever done in a long time.

I love that. See, and that's, we feel so much pressure to be doing and showing what we're doing. And, you know, like, even everything you just said, you're doing it for like yourself, but you're expected to share that. Expect that. You probably are enjoying it more from not sharing it. So I haven't been on social media in eight days. Like, I keep being like, I'm okay. You're not missing a thing. I'm not missing anything. I truly feel way more present in conversations I'm having in things that I want to go out and do. I'm exercising more. Like, I'm just, I just feel like I'm, I'll go back. But my question to you is, how do you go back with a more clear and healthy mind? Because. You've done that a few times, like, after all the shit you had to go through, you took some time off social media. Yeah.

How do you enter back into a world? Because I'm going to enter back into that world and they're still all going to be waiting there expecting answers about what happened with me and Jason. And you don't give it to them. No. I really think that's what it is. Like when I came back, when I took the last break, which I feel like I'm overdue for, like, really detaching. I'm on social media. I'm just not posting social media.

Yeah. Okay. I can feel myself when I go back into a. phase of you're looking at it too much. I'm usually good at self-checking, but again, I have more time. I'm like, what are you doing? Yes. I think it's an ease into it, but truly sharing what you want to. I want to share everything. You share it with the people that are present. Okay. And then I think that your audience too will appreciate like you're just giving them enough. They're rooting for you regardless. You have such loyal fans. I'm like scared they all

hate me right now. No, they don't. I think people. appreciate the fact that you're taking time for you and to figure things out. And then admitting you don't have it figured out yet. And when you decide that you want to get back on social media and log in, just don't feel like I have to tell people every second of my life. Maybe it's just posting photos instead of stories, you know, and maybe it's pictures instead of videos. Yeah, like I want to help other people that might be going through.

That's my problem, too. That's your podcast. That's true. But then I sit here and I feel like I feel like. I'm being mean to them because I'm like, I don't know you anything. And then I'm like, but I'll tell you everything on here. But you know what the good balance is? You're like, it's not everybody. It's just a few. That's true. You know what I tell people when they're like, you don't show Brian? I'm like, but I talk about them all the time on my podcast. Yeah.

Yeah. So tune in Tuesdays and Thursdays and Fridays episodes drop. And I'm telling you about my life on my podcast. You really get to know me in those spaces, not social media. That's so true. This really is the place to come to. And it's all people who want to be here for you because it's an hour. So you're not going to get all the trolls on here that, you know, you're going to get the supporters. And maybe people will like hate listen. And that's great. We'll take those listens.

Oh, I'll take the hate downloads. Yeah. Absolutely. I guess I do still get those. Sometimes I'll hear a comment. And I'm like, oh, you listened. Exactly. Cute.

Thank you. Appreciate the support. Yeah, exactly. I'm just going to ride this out because I feel so good. And I might get on tomorrow. I might get on a week from now. I'm not sure yet. But also you're polarizing. And I say that in the best way. I think it's great to be polarizing because it means that you're just not telling people everything that they want to hear. You're just being yourself and people either like it or they don't. Yeah. And obviously majority like it, which attributes to your success. Especially now that, you know, two of my exes from the show, the main exes are both having babies and I'm going through a breakup. I feel like they're like, we need to hear your thoughts.

But you don't have to. No. If you want to know, like, follow them and see their journey of having. Of course, you have thoughts. My gosh, do I have thoughts? We all do. Did you know that hair thinning will happen to approximately one in two women? And if you listen to my pod or follow me on Instagram, you know that. And I know it all too well, which is why I use neuterful, have been for three years. There are multiple root causes of hair thinning, and Nutriful addresses them through a whole body approach to hair health.

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Because when it comes to getting the most out of your home, you can do this. when you Angie that. Download the free Angie mobile app today or visit Angie.com. That's A-N-G-I-com. I wanted to quickly talk about Bachelor franchise because I know it played obviously significant role in your life. But I love how you're not afraid of holding anybody accountable. I love how you're not afraid to just completely remove from the show and still find your own success. I love it. And I love that you don't watch, but you'll still support people from the show. And I think that's another healthy boundary that you have another healthy relationship to still say I can support from afar.

I don't have to watch. I don't have to support certain things. I can support certain human beings. And I think that's incredible because even Brian was doing the show, the podcast for a long time. And then now that's done too. So have you talked to Charity. I have not talked to her personally. Okay.

She's an angel. I hear nothing but lovely things. I tried to see her schedules didn't work at all carries. Oh, yeah, my dear carries. And it just didn't work out like with the scheduling. But I will probably reach out to her when it's all said and done. Yeah. I feel like, yeah, she's just too pure for that world.

Well, I hope that the audience is good to her. I have been watching out for it and asking around because I feel very protective of her just as a human. woman being like she is a sweet rare bird and they have been really i don't know fully but from what i see so supportive well they need to because they asked me to come to men tell all oh they did there's a confession for you okay and i said it's hell no and i said well i was like it's got to be worth my my time because i can talk to charity i don't need public space like you know they asked us to do videos and stuff for charity and i actually was like is it going to be a personal video just for her to keep that I'm more than happy to do it.

Right. But I don't want you using it for the show just because of everything that's gone down. Of course. So I'm so willing to have a personal relationship with charity, but I don't need to come on the show and you use me because you want to use me. Yeah. But so it didn't work out. Yeah.

But everybody has a price, you know. Absolutely. Well, you said earlier, you know you're worth too. That's work and that's putting yourself in a situation that if the money is right, sure. Right. Because help me help you. And it wasn't. I said no.

I can do that on my own with charity. But I think that when you see Min Telal and you see that not one lead of color was there for charity, you better get it right with her. Because none of us want to come back for whatever reason. I can't speak to specifically Michelle's or Tash's, but they don't want to come back. Right. So, you know, get it right with charity. Yeah, exactly. It feels like they've missed every opportunity.

Yeah. It is what it is. It is what it is. I was going to come back for anybody as it was charity, so that ship is sailed. Yeah, well, the budgets are down, so they can't afford Rachel Lindsay anymore. I don't do this last time, but your podcast, higher learning is just incredible. I love the social clips even, like the whole podcast in general, everything about it. You cover so many incredible topics. But what has been the most surprising or eye-opening topic that you've discussed on the show so far? And how has it impacted your own perspective?

Oh, my gosh. There have been so many. And right now we're stepping into 2024, so it's a whole political season. But I will talk about something that happened recently. There is a lot of tension between black and Jewish people, whether it's been somebody who's prominent that's black, who has made terrible anti-Semitic comments towards Jewish people. And then you see on social media there's this strong reaction from black people. There's a strong reaction from Jewish people. And it's like, you know, back during the civil rights, there was a lot of togetherness where they were marching hand in hand supporting each other because of what Jewish people have gone through. And then obviously what black people have gone through in this country specifically. And so it's like, where did this, where did it happen where this relationship became so fractured? And most recently we spoke about Jamie Fox saying something that was like what black people say all the time. and it was taken out of context by a Jewish newsletter, and then Jennifer Aniston blew it up by reposting it and calling the comments anti-Semitic. And it was, you're all social media, so maybe this is something that you missed.

Yeah, I definitely missed this one, yeah. See, you're not missing anything. Yeah. But it was something that we talked about, and we brought on a friend of the podcast, Dr. Rabbi Ari Lam, and he spoke to his positioning of it. And he's an Orthodox Jew. That's what he practices. And he gave this perspective that was from the perspective of Orthodox Jews versus Jewish people who don't practice in the same way. Right.

And obviously, he's a rabbi. He's, as we quoted, one, a 38 out of 50s, like the 38th most influential Jewish person in the country. Oh, wow. And people were upset. They were up in arms. And obviously, I'm black. I can speak to black culture more than anything else. We brought him on because when we are not experts on a topic, we bring someone who can speak to that.

And a lot of people who, Jewish people who, we have a lot of Jewish listeners, they aren't Orthodox. They were so upset because they were saying that he othered himself and made it look like they do something one way and those other people do something. Other Jewish people do something this way. And so from that, I learned like you don't know what you don't know, but there's so much more to know. And sometimes, you know, like the expert that you bring on might offend your eye. and there's more for you to learn about the culture. And just in the same way we say black people aren't a monolith, neither are Jewish people. And it was a really eye-opening thing.

So when we came back to the next podcast, we had to apologize and say that was our fault. You know, we didn't realize that we were offending a whole sector of our audience. And so now we want to bring another expert on to speak to that. So I think that's the beauty of the podcast. Like we're not afraid to go there about, you know, a topic that may be taboo. We want to get down to the bottom of how we can repair a sort of. certain relationship, but we're also not afraid to say when we did something that was wrong and how can we make it better? And that opens up even more conversation, which I think is the whole point

of podcast. I mean, that's, you know, like we all need to learn about so many things in life. And the way to do it is sometimes by making mistakes. Sometimes you make mistakes to have to learn a really hard lesson. Sometimes you just have to be wanting to learn. And that is why your podcast is so great because you do all of those things. So that's cool. Where do people find your podcast anywhere they find podcasts. Anywhere you find podcasts, new episodes drop every Tuesday and Friday. It's really good. Thank you. Yeah. It's really good. So you're stepping away from extra, but we've got to talk about who has been your favorite interview from there so far because, holy shit, Michael B. Jordan. Michael B. Jordan, who it's like I consider, like,

consider him, not a friend, but friendly. No, because he's so great. He's so down to earth. He's so encouraging. He catches the podcast here and there, which is great. I think that's also been cool when I'm interviewing someone and they're like, oh, we love the podcast. I'm like, wait, you know, you don't know me as this person, you know, interviewing. And I think those type of moments gave me the confidence to feel like I can step away from this because it is hard. The access that you have to celebrity, the interviews, the exclusive interviews that you're getting. And to do that for three years, you feel like that's your identity. And to realize it's not is also a very powerful moment.

Yeah, because that's probably the thing that fills your cup the most, too, is doing the podcast. Like, that's probably where, you know, it's always, it's always impressive to go out and be a host and interview people and do that job as well. But I feel like, and you can correct me if I'm wrong, but that podcast is what is important to you. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It feels like there's, it's not just passion. It gives me a lot of purpose.

And there's, you know, because you have your own community. there's just like nothing better than being able to create a community. And then when that community goes off and does their own thing without you, it's like, look, it's like my babies. It's so great. I know. But I think Brad Pitt is still one of my favorite interviews. I've never blacked out in an interview except for that one.

My God. And Rihanna. Oh, God. Brad Pitt, what did he smell like? I was stopped up. Oh, damn it. I had a sinus. I almost canceled. I felt so sick. I had a sinus infection. Imagine canceling on Brad Pitt. I know. I had, I have no idea what he smelled like. I was like a goofy kid in that interview. But I'm going to have to go back and watch that one. It's when it was over, I turned to my producer and I go, what happened? What did I say? Was it okay? Did I, I mean, there was just. I mean, it's Brad Pitt. And you step into this bubble. And he really is disarming, very inviting. Yeah. So lovely and was having a good time. And it's like,

I had bad bunny right after that, which was also great, who I, I think I was still in a days when I was like, so you're going on tour, how do I get tickets to the concert? I need ticket. You know, like, I just was like on a Brad Pitt high. I get on a Brad Pitt high just from like watching him in an interview because he just seems like he is easy going, nice, humble, down to earth kind of guy. There have been so many good interviews. And I will miss that. I will miss the hustle and bustle of a red carpet. But it was. It really was time for me to go. I'm glad you knew that, and I'm glad you did that for yourself. But I'm like, should I have? Yes. I'm like, I don't know if I should have. You actually, yes.

Oh, I don't know if I should have done that. My whole body just said yes. I feel like you know deep down in your gut. This is the right thing. I know, but man, it's hard. It's the ego. It's the ego. 100%.

It's the ego. 100%. Are you going to write another book? I don't know. I love that. I mean, when did your last book just come out? In March. In March.

Oh, okay. And I'm hoping to turn that into something. Oh, I had help. You know me. I will tell you. I would be the same way. Are you going to try and turn your book into a movie? Movie or TV?

Yeah. Not sure yet. Obviously, with the strike, which we support our writers and our actors right now. Yes. Everything is on hold. But it is an idea that I was working on prior to the strike. But I'm not working on it now. Yeah.

No. Because I'm respecting that. But I have some other ideas. I am big on turning life experiences into something scripted. scripted. So maybe that's the next thing for you. You're writing about this experience because I'm telling you there is somebody who's 38

hasn't had their children, successful, checking all the boxes, not getting something else that they want in their life, or maybe it's like too afraid to take that jump. That's why I wrote my memoir because that was me why I decided to go on The Bachelor. I was too afraid to leave everything that I've known and step outside that box. So maybe

it's a book of essays for you writing that next. Maybe it's turning into, maybe you're scripting this next phase of your life. Can Megan Fox play me? Yes, she can. Yes, she can. I'm looking at everything that happens in my life as a creative outlet. That's brilliant. I feel like how I'm going to get through because I'm obsessed with. Like, have you seen the trouble with Fleischman? No. Or Flashman in trouble. Totally just rewrote that into something else. It's Fleischman in trouble. Okay. It's so good. It's on Hulu. Okay. Claire Dane's. She's incredible in it. And then there's a movie called Somebody I Used to Know with

Alison Brieme, Dave Franco, her husband directed it, Jay Ellis. And both of those, the ones a show, once a movie, are about dealing with, reflecting on life, and it's kind of like you wake up and things aren't where you thought they were going to be. That's not, they don't

wake up, but certain things lead into a place where one goes home. One has like something traumatic happened to them. And they're looking at the characters throughout this show and this movie, are saying, you know, like, what if I had done this, or, you know, is this where I'm supposed to be? And just, like, questioning life decisions.

And I'm obsessed with that lady. And maybe, like, that's the place that I'm in my life. It sounds like you are too. That's definitely where I'm at my life. But watch those. Okay. And, like, I don't know. Maybe I'll get inspired.

Yeah, and get inspired. Like, I would soak up whatever, whatever comes out of what you're going through right now. Yeah. I want to read it. I mean, I feel like my therapist said something like, because whatever I was saying to him, He was like, it's going to be okay. I was talking about public perception. It was like, you will be fine.

I'm like, yeah, but that just sounds like a platitude. He's like, no, but you will. You've been at another place in your life where you thought you couldn't get through it. And years later, you're like, what was that? I'm on the other side of it. Yes, because you're stepping away from something that's going to give space to align with something else that you're supposed to be doing. And you're just in the in between. And you still have an incredibly successful podcast.

to end crushing it. So, you know, all the things. Okay, well, I love you. I love you too. We should do this more often. What are we doing? I know. I'd like to talk to you about some things.

I would love to talk to you about some things off mic. What are you doing tonight? I'm going to dinner with friends, but then I'm down for drinks. I'm actually going to be around the corner. You are? Yeah. Let's go for a drink. Okay, let's go for a drink after.

Okay. Okay. I'm Caitlin Bristow. Your session is now ending. And if I'm being honest, I wouldn't mind a rating in a review. Hey, y'all. It's Savannah Crisley. And I've got a new podcast titled Unlocked. We're creating a space for people to truly be vulnerable. You're used to seeing me having to have this picture perfect bow. on the life that I live, and frankly, that's not who I am.

I'm a little wild, I'm a little crazy, and I love really, really hard. I really hope that you'll join me every Tuesday as I bring on friends, family, and some guests that I'm pretty sure you're going to recognize. Listen and follow Unlocked Now on Apple Podcast, Spotify, Amazon Music, YouTube, or your favorite podcast app. Stream the biggest blockbusters this summer with popcorn summer movies on Pluto TV. Indulge in hilarious rom-coms like the backup plan. Or delve into award-winning dramas like Boris Gump and Minari, with thousands of other free movies. Pluto TV has something for everyone.

Available on live TV and on demand. Download Pluto TV on all your favorite devices and start streaming now. Thank you.