Off The Vine with Kaitlyn Bristowe - Serena Kerrigan | What 50 Livestreamed First Dates Taught Her About Love!

Episode Date: October 15, 2026

#989. Serena Kerrigan went on 50 first dates on Instagram Live, built an entire career out of her dating life, and somehow still has some WILD stories to tell. The self-proclaimed Queen of Confidence joins Kaitlyn to question whether modern dating advice has completely lost the plot, why butterflies might actually be a red flag, and why she believes holding a literal funeral after a breakup can help you finally move on. From getting ghosted to accidentally locking herself naked outside a guy’s apartment, Serena has been through it all. And now that she's found love, is she actually following her own advice?Her new book, Let's Fcking Date, is out now!If you’re LOVING this podcast, please follow and leave a rating and review below! PLUS, FOLLOW OUR PODCAST INSTAGRAM HERE!Thank you to our Sponsors! Check out these AMAZING deals!Macy’s: Go find your favorites in store or online only at Macys.com!Knix: Head to Knix.com/ACOTAR to shop the new ACOTAR Knix collection and use code VINE15 to save 15%.Boll & Branch: Upgrade your sleep with Boll & Branch. Get 15% off your first order plus free shipping at bollandbranch.com/vine20, code vine20.Progressive: Switch your home and auto insurance to Progressive and see if you could save without having to cut down on the things you love. Get your quote today at Progressive.com.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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Nine years, 1,000 episodes, one night in New York City. You really don't want to miss this one. This episode of Off the Vine is brought to you by Macy's. Go find your favorites in store or online only at Macy's.com. Nix. Nix, K-N-I-X.com slash Akatar to shop the new Akatar Nix collection. And use code Vind 15 to save 15%. Bowling Branch.

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I'm your host, Caitlin Bristow. Now, today's guest took what most of us would consider our absolute dating rock bottom. and she somehow turned it into a massive career. Serena Kerrigan started live streaming her actual first dates during COVID. Like she was dating 50 different men on live streams, uh, built, let's,

date into a whole brand and now has officially written the book on everything she learned along the way. You let, trust me, I've dated 30 men at once, doing 50 online as a whole other ballgame. So I feel like I'm saying something wrong when I'm swearing, but let's date,

become the prize, enjoy the ride and never settle again, is out now. now. And today we are talking all about bad dates, F-boys, all the relationship advice that we've been lied to about. And the things we all do when we like someone that we would absolutely tell our friends not to do. This is just like hanging out with one of your girlfriends. So Serena, welcome to the podcast. I need to talk about this first and foremost about live streaming your dates. I'm sure you've talked about this so many times. But during COVID, when the rest of us were just

losing our minds at home, you started going on virtual first dates in front of an audience. You know, you were kind of my inspiration for some of this. Because I watched her season of The Bachelor. You're like, if she can humiliate herself on national television, I can do this. You were amazing. And I feel like, and you were raw, vulnerable and awesome. And look at the platform you both. But I always was told that you need to go on the Bachelor.

You need to go on The Bachelor. And I was like, bitch, I'm not fighting over a man. Yeah, you know what I mean? Like, I couldn't. I didn't. It was different when the men were fighting over you. Yes. That's fun.

Yes. I don't know how I made it to top three on Crystal season because I didn't fight for him at all. I was like, he can come to me. It worked out for you. There you go. So I was like sitting at home alone. It's COVID. I just acquit my job. My best friend was my roommate, like left to go to Connecticut with her boyfriend. And I was stuck in my apartment and I was missed. Yeah. I was like my neighbor at the time. But he was ghosting me. Oh, not that part. He would know. He would be like, I don't want to invite you. Like I was like, oh, he would be like, do you want to hang out? And he was like, ooh, like, we're having a get together. But only 10 people are allowed. You know, they had that rule in New York. That only like you could only like you could only get to find out. Okay. And I was like. So he would cut you off. You weren't in the 10? leave he said like that's crazy and I was like no but he loves me uh no he doesn't okay I never told that before that was crazy no so I was looking for my COVID boyfriend yes and I decided to do this dating show and Instagram live because we were all losing our minds like it was your own dating show

like you came up with it legit I'm sitting on my couch ring light laptop alcohol vodka and I just went live I hired a producer to vet all the men because people would just send it to like date sfk dot at gmail dot com and she would vet them and she just is legit okay okay Oh, she came from reality TV. She came from MTV. Stop. Yeah. And my mom worked at MTV forever.

So I had a reality bone in my body. And I know the production, okay? Like there was a villain on the show. So, yeah, I would literally like sit there, date two men for 30 minutes. Like I would get texted their username. I would go on live, date them. And then literally, because no one else had anything to f***ing, we all made the banana bread. We all tied.

We all watched Tiger King. Yeah. So people were like, okay, fuck it. Like, I'm going to watch this girl date. And every week it would grow, grow, grow. And the best part is that after the best part is that after they, the two dates I would have an after show and invite people on to my live and we'd talk shit about the guys, not an irrespectful lie. I want to do this. It's crazy. You should. Well, I can't

bring it back. You can't. But we could figure it out. And then, like, the ex-girlfriends would come on. Oh. And the moms would come on and be like, what do you think of my son? It was crazy. I did 50, 50 guys I dated, three seasons. You had seasons. That's incredible. And then I didn't, I found my men's. Well, but you still had fun doing that. Best time. And it's all. about dating, about like having, they were blind. So I gave me such an open mind about like going to date, not knowing anything, what they looked like, their personality. Like, it was just such a great exercise in a blind date. Well, and it, I feel like it makes it less awkward when you have an audience. A lot of people would not think that. I think that because you're like,

there's like a whole other added entertainment element to it that can easily break the ice right away. A hundred percent. Also, people are commenting. Like, there's comments on live. So it always tell the guy, like, don't look at the comments, don't want the comments, because it'd be like, take his shirt off, like, ask him to see his tattoo. Like, what's that in the background? It's like, is he on a gaming chair? Like, it was so funny. It was so great.

That is hilarious. Yeah. And I feel like, because of who you are, you've probably built a pretty hilarious audience base who gets you. 100%. So they were just there. I think it's also, like, it was like, how often do you really get to see a woman date in a, live? Like, it's not produced. Oh, yeah.

There's, I mean, and there was like this voyeurism element. And I think I just wanted to show that it can be fun. Dating should be fun. That is. Do you still think dating's fun? Yes. I'm not. I have a boyfriend.

Yeah. And that's what I mean. Sorry, you're dating someone. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But yeah, that's a really important reason. That's how I think I found him because I treated dating as an experience that wasn't like a means to an end or like something I had to get through or a drag. I just enjoyed it as something that was like probably going to be temporary and fun.

The matchmaker I had on my podcast said like you're always just one. degree of separation away from your person. And there's like a reason you did all that and you probably wouldn't have met him otherwise. I do totally believe that. Also, did you ever have anyone join your live? Because you know how you said you'd have people come on after and like shit talk? Who was like a bot or not a bot, but like a naked man? You know, we didn't have a naked man. But I had one guy like that I dated stick out his tongue and it like went wrapped around his chin. Like it was crazy. Now is that hot or? It wasn't and I was so glad that it was on Instagram Live, so I didn't have to like see that in person.

Yes. I was doing an Instagram live once and somebody put their name as my best friend's name. And so it said that Kat Campbell wants to join your live. And I was like, oh, cat. I got, oh my God, but she never wants to go live. This is so crazy. And it was a dick. The biggest dick I've ever seen swinging. Oh. But you can't see. Like it was like he was down by a mattress and this part like you couldn't see. And it was like he panicked. He was like, holy shit, she accepted him.

Like started doing a helicopter. And then I was like, ah, ha. And somebody had it screen recorded. And I was like, great entertainment. It was people, this was so many years ago and people still will stop me on the street. Be like, remember when that guy showed his dong on your life? It's crazy. That never happened to you.

Okay, well, that's good. Close, but it didn't. There was a guy who dressed up as Adam to be, so I'd be his Eve. and he, like, had, like, leaves around his dick. Did you have to... No, sorry, continue. No, I mean, that's like, it's so insane. He had leaves around his dick.

Yeah. So it was close enough. Did you have to make people sign things? No. The world was ending, babe. Yeah, that's true. Didn't have to do shit. But these strangers would come on knowing it was going on an Instagram live, like, knowing it was for...

Oh, okay, okay, okay, yeah. The worst thing was when they were like, and my mixed tapes coming out. Oh, God. No, no, no, baby. You're here to date me. Yeah, you just click exit right away. You're like, no, sir. You know who was the runner-up of my dating show?

Fibula. Connor Wood, who's on Dancing with the Stars now. Stop. I'm just going to say, like, what? He was the runner up. And then the guy who won, actually, he was Australian, super hot. And he, like, I basically got to a point where after the third season, I would never pick anyone. So I was like, okay, I let my audience pick for me.

Like, they picked the winner. So every week we would, like, vote out. And so it was the runner up was fibula. And then it was this guy named Creed who ended up going on too hot to handle after on Netflix. No, stop. You really set people up for stardom. There you go. Wait.

Was Connor a somebody at the table? time? He had like a strong TikTok following, but he was the most charming, adorable. He is. Like, he was the best vibes. Oh my gosh. It's just so funny because I'm like, we dated. That's so funny. Do you guys still talk? Yeah, he's awesome. Oh, I know. It's just so, so, so funny. That's what happened with why could that? Creed, the other one? No, both. Why didn't it work out for either one? Well, with my audience voted for Creed. Sure, but after that didn't work, why didn't you go to your little sloppy seconds? More of like a friend vibe. Okay. I got that. But I did like have sex with a couple of guys. that I dated on let's say. Sorry, how explicit do we get on this podcast? Oh, you can go there.

It's giving. It was called let's date. And this is off the vine. Yeah. You can say whatever your little heart desire is on here. No, but it was good. Listen, I think the moral, if you're listening, you're like, why the fucking you're talking about this? I think the moral of the story is here. Like, you have to do it for the plot. You have to be open to experiences. And just, I thought it was just a really great exercise in being open-minded. And then after the dating show ended, after the cameras were turned off, I use that and I continue to do that. And I think that when women go on dates, they're so judgmental before they even get on the date. But when they're swiping. And listen, men take horrible pictures. We know that. And we would judge them if they took great pictures.

That's such a good point. So I'm not saying going to date with something that you think is ugly, but if he's like, okay, like he was cute via like the texting, like go for it. I mean, what was the weirdest, weirdest date? I mean, I can tell you about a weird date, but not on the show. What do you mean? Oh, okay, sure, yeah. Tell me your weirdest day ever. Because the show, like, it was weird, but it was via screen. So, like, how weird could it get?

You know what I mean? Do you want to know about, like, a crazy date? Yeah. Like, yeah. Yeah. So I have a couple. Okay. But I'll say that there was one where I went home to the sky who was super hot.

I met him out. Was it a date? It was a meet cute. And we're, like, in his bed. And I was pretty drunk. And, like, we fell asleep. And in the middle of the night, I was like, you know, when you're just parched, like, you were like, I mean.

But, like, I'm like, what is this apartment? Like, I was just like, where I don't know where anything is. Yeah. So I'm butt naked and I'm just like walking around and I open a door and I close it behind me and I'm like, okay, where's the light? And I'm like, this isn't the bathroom. What is it? This is the hallway. Oh.

I locked myself out of his apartment. Oh, shit, naked. But. Oh, no. And it was like a walkup and I could hear noises. I didn't even know what time was. I didn't know my phone. I had nothing.

There was no doorman. Like, it was like, I was like, I was like. I was literally like, and I literally, what did you think I did? Banged on the door? Literally just sat down and go, and then he like eventually opened it and he was like, what are you doing for your hair? And I was like, just needed some air. I just needed some air.

That happened to me once, actually. We did? Not the exact same story, but I was going to put my room service. Yeah. Is that what it's called? Yeah, room service. Like little table out in the hallway of my hotel and I had no pants on in a crop top. fully Winnie the poo just as if food doesn't taste better when your pants are off.

It does. And I put the tray out and then I had my foot like holding the door open. And it shot. Yeah. At least you weren't naked. No, but I did have to go around the corner. There was a phone to call down to the front desk to get them to let me in. And three men walked out of the elevator.

And I was like, don't look at me. And they're like, okay. They're like, do you need help? I'm like, no, God. But it was so embarrassing. But that's pretty. But being embarrassed. is a choice. Is it? Yeah. I disagree. I don't you know. You're laughing. We're laughing about it. Like, it's funny.

It wasn't a choice in the moment. In the moment it's like, it's a choice to tell it on the microphone after, but that's fine. That's so funny. So when you would go on dates after the show and after all these live streaming things, would you tell the guy that you're dating being like, I dated 50 men before you. No, I think that a lot of people saw my personality online and they saw what I was doing. And I actually would go on dates and be like, don't look. at my social media, which was so dumb because they obviously went home and were like, Yeah, of course. You know, you can't do that. But also, I was afraid that my persona online, which was definitely like a larger than life and dating and open to talk about sex and everything, I thought that that would deter me from finding someone. So I was ashamed about it until I realized that the right person is not only going to not give a

but like celebrate that side of you. I'd like to be proud of you. I agree. And that was like savvy. That was like a business move. Yeah. You grew your social media. And also built an empire.

What was the peak, like, audience when you were doing this dating online? I love that you asked me that. It was, I remember this. It was on par with, like, if I think LeBron James went live. Like that, and my falling was not even, like, nothing. Like, it was like, people were invested. That was the amount of people tuning in people. Did you start getting, like, ads?

Like, you started having, like, commercial breaks and be like, have you ever accelerated your breath? Love that you asked that. I had literally the second season sponsored by so many different brands. It was like six-figure sponsorship. Bumble sponsored a month of episode. So every guy we found was from Bumble. We all wore yellow. It was very cute.

Oh, I love the, yeah, it really was a business, an empire. You built it. Absolutely. And I have to go for it. It's only cringe until, you know, you start making money. That's true. That's true. It's literally so, true.

I have cringed my way to the top. I don't have. I, okay, you're talking about the being naked in the hallway story. You've had some weird dates, but I need. Oh, and the guy. who would ghost you and you were having sex with him and he was your neighbor and you weren't allowed in the top 10. But I need your best, like, I cannot believe I did this for a man's story. I flew to Miami for a first date. Oh, which was insane. On your dollar? No. Oh. Let's put some

respect on my name here. Absolutely not. Okay. But like he didn't pay for my Uber to his house. I remember from the airport. I didn't like that. Interesting. Yeah. I don't think you should fly somewhere for a man. I think they should fly to you for a first date. And then I was like living with him in his apartment for that weekend. No, it was crazy. Did you do research on him before? Do you do research on guys before you date them? I definitely had, he was vouched by people.

Of course. And I had locations on and everything. Okay. But it was a fun experience. But like the reason that I, you know, when I talk about this in my book, but like I really believe the first date needs to be really light like a two drinks and ditch. Like no dinner, no comedy show. and definitely know moving to going to a different state.

Like you have to keep it tight, light, so you can leave. I want to talk about if we've completely lost our minds with dating advice because now you literally wrote the book on dating, which means I feel comfortable asking you this. Please. But have we all gotten like a little insane with dating advice? Like has it made us worse at dating? There's so much advice out there.

Depends if you're listening to. And you should be only listening to me. You should like go to school and get like a certificate for this. I just wrote a Bible on dating. I don't even need a certificate. Fair. Touche. You know, listen, and this is, but I'm actually glad you brought that up because I remember

someone asked me, they were like, so like, you know, what kind of degree do you have to back this up? And, you know, I'm like, I have the degree that I went on so many f***es. I was single my entire 20s. I don't want to hear from an anthropologist or a scientist who's like, well, like, I don't, I love you. Like, that actually could work for some people. Sure.

But I want to hear about someone who was in the trenches with me. That's true. I just feel like everyone. like according to the internet is toxic avoidant everything's a red flag apparently nobody should ever like text anyone back right away there's just so much i disagree with all that you do yeah i think in general we need to remove negativity from dating enough with this like i just got the ick from him like i think it's like we it's so i'm not saying that there's some men that are problematic and not for you absolutely but this men are trash new york city is the worst place to date

I'm going to be single forever. All of that, you're creating reality when you say those things. That's such a good point. So step one, just remove those. I can understand dating is frustrating. This is why I wrote the book and why people should listen to me. I know firsthand how annoying dating can be and how it could feel very frustrating. But I also believe that you don't have a lot of control over your experience other than your mindset, how you talk about it, and how you show up for it, which you should be showing up.

Now, is this learned behavior that you've learned to be like this? have you always been more positive and removing negativity? I definitely think my family trauma like made me positive, like as a survival method, if I'm being honest. But I also think that like I had a choice where I could be like, boo-hoo, like I'm single. My friends are engaged. Or I could be like, you know what? When I'm ready, I'll have the opportunity.

Maybe I have to go and take another trip with a bestie. Maybe I just have to be a little more selfish. Maybe I have more money to make. Like, there's a reason why I'm not ready for this relationship yet. And that's okay. And I'm going to figure out why. And I did. So it's like you can see yourself as the victim or you can see yourself as,

someone who just has more time. Because I, okay, this is another thing. I just don't think being single is being a victim. I don't think not being a relationship is a problem. The first chapter of my book is called being single fuchs because it does. And it's also temporary. You're not going to be single for your entire life if you don't want to be. And when you're in a relationship, you're going to miss being single.

There you go. So it's like instead of it being this like means to an end or a drag, why don't you just see it as something that's like a temporary, plotty, fun experience in your life. Like think about your bachelor days. Like that was such an exciting experience. that, like, you wouldn't have had if, I don't know if you feel that way. I, as a viewer, thought it was exciting. But you wouldn't have had that experience if you had to been in a relationship your whole life.

Yeah. You know what I mean? No, I always think that way for people who, like, married their high school sweetheart. I'm like, you didn't get a whole phase. Right. But some people don't need that. I did. I did too.

I did too. Big time. Okay. I have decided that I need someone to give me a fashion cheat sheet at the beginning of every season because, well, I love clothes. I love getting dressed. I love seeing what everyone is wearing, but sometimes you hear about a new trend and you're like, okay, sure, but what does that mean for me personally? Do I need an entirely new wardrobe?

Am I supposed to get rid of everything I wore last year? I don't know about you, but we are not doing that around here. So Macy's is basically giving us the fall trend cheat sheet, and I went through what's big this season. Good news, you guys, a lot of it is actually very wearable. First up, we're going to go chocolate brown. I feel like Brown kind of started having its moment last year, but apparently this fall we are fully committing to the chocolate brown bit. I support it. I do love black. I will always wear black, but there is something about a really rich chocolate brown in the fall that just feels chic. It feels expensive.

And you don't have to suddenly, you know, dress head to toe and brown. You can, but I think the easiest way to bring it in is just through one piece, like a chocolate brown handbag, a jacket, a boot, and then just wear it with things you already own, which brings me to suede because that is also everywhere this fall. Macy's has suede shown up in handbags, jackets, shoes, accessories, and I feel this is another really easy one. A suede bag with jeans and a white tea, boom, done. Sway jacket over something you've just worn a hundred times, suddenly feels different. And maybe I think that's the key with trends. I don't want to buy something that I'm going to wear twice because it was cool for like six weeks. Give me something that feels current but still

works with the rest of my closet. And then I have next trend. Okay, dark indigo denim. Now this one might be my favorite because it requires basically zero fashion bravery. We all own jeans, you're just going to go darker. Okay? That really deep saturated indigo wash is back. Now, I forgot how good dark denim looks. It just looks elevated, especially after years of lighter washes being everywhere. There's something about a dark gene that immediately makes an outfit feel a little more polished. So I'd do a dark indigo gene with a simple sweater, maybe a chocolate brown belt, maybe a suede boot, and look at us. We've combined three trends without doing anything crazy. Okay, and then the last one is retro-inspired patterns. I love a plaid. We're talking plaids,

checks and stripes, those classic patterns that come back around every few years. There are also a lot of classic blues and reds happening together, too. Like, people are really doing the red and blue thing together. So it has this slightly vintage Americana feel. I think this is where I'd probably bring the trend in through one piece. Maybe a plaid jacket with a really simple outfit underneath or maybe, I don't know, a striped sweater with jeans. Because personally, if I'm wearing plaid pants, a striped shirt and a sway jacket and a chocolate brown bag, somebody needs to stop me, okay? We do not need to wear that entire cheat sheet at once. And I think that's what actually my biggest takeaway with fall trends is this year. Pick the ones

you genuinely like. Now, you don't have to completely reinvent your style every season. You can just find one or two things that make clothes you already own feel brand new again. Macy's has all of these trends in one place, which makes it really easy to see what you actually like. You get to try some new pieces, figure out what works with your own style, chocolate brown swayed, dark into go denim, retro patterns, consider this your fall cheat sheet. So go find your favorites in store or online, only at macy's.com. Okay, Akatar girlies. I need your attention immediately because two worlds that I never expected to collide just did. And honestly, I am obsessed. So Nick's just launched an exclusive collection inspired by a court of Thorns and Rose.

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They really thought about what fans would want. And can we talk about the leakproof underwear for a second? I feel like I always talk about them on this podcast, but apparently they're calling it Chapter 55 proof. And if you know, you know, I'm not going to explain that one. Go read the book. Honestly, whether you're here for the pretty lingerie, the cozy sleepwear, or just an excuse to treat yourself to something a little

extra this collection has you covered because who says a little fantasy has to stay in the books. You know what I mean? Head to Nix, K-N-I-X.com slash Akatar to shop the new Akatar Nix collection and use Code Vine-15 to save 15%. That's Nix.com slash Akatar. Code Vine-15. Happy shopping. What's a piece of dating advice that you'll defend even when people hate hearing it?

I can't even believe it's up for anybody. Men are paying for... Men are paying the bill. Cording stage men are paying the bill. Once you're in a relationship, whatever, like take turns, I don't care. When a man is courting you, the way he shows interest is by Pursuil. And Pursuil looks like a plan. It doesn't look like a Netflix and Chill or a what do you do it?

It's a plan. It's a date. And the person who asks you on a date should pay. Period. End point. Cannot even believe this is up for a date. Wait. Do people put that up for debate?

You know who love to put that up for debate? Who? The men. They're like, well, what about feminism? That's all you don't know how. It's like, you wanted rights. So why aren't you paying for the bill? And I'm like, oh, please.

And by the way, we still don't have equal pay. And by the way, we do our nails are tan, our eyebrows, our, like, everything. And we might even be bleeding right now. That too. Yeah. Tampon, pink tax, tampon tax, all this shit. And I'm like, you guys take a shower and you brush your hair and you're ready. You use the same cream for your eyes as you do for your.

And the two in one champion. Yeah. Please. So I'm like, you know what? The bare minimum, you can pay you for the date. Yeah. Okay, fair. Point made.

And I agree. Thank you. I agree. What's the most, I mean, we're going to enter the trenches with a f*** boy. What is the most obvious boy scenario that somehow continues to work for men? This situation of it all. Yeah. I think that like, I think from my experience, I thought that the feelings of obsession

and excitement and oh my god he's going to be my husband after date one i thought that was like my intuition like oh he's going to be my husband yeah yeah when i really realize that when you meet your person you feel peaceful safe flows you're not obsessing so true and so i think that i know i'm answering the question a little differently than you asked but it's like i think that men are able to get away with the bare minimum and and breadcrumbing and all that because it feels exciting but that's not what it should feel like. You should feel really secure. A little cocky even. Like, I can see him again, but like, whatever. Like, that's your guy. That's so true. Because you're so secure. Wait, do you believe in the theory that he should love you

a little more than you love him? You do. I think, yes. Do you? I like that. Like, if I think if I told my boyfriend that, he'd be offended. Yeah, that's what I'm like trying to think about how it would sound if the person I was dating was listening. But really, if I'm just being completely honest, I think that's what makes me feel safe. Yeah. So I think that's okay. Absolutely. Because there shouldn't be even a question about how they feel about you. And so many times in the beginning, if you are feeling that way of like, wait, I can't tell. Like, I haven't heard from him. He doesn't like you? Just make it that black and white. Yeah, it should be that simple shouldn't it? It actually should be. And you're so delusional when you have the butterflies and the, those

matterflies or red flags with wings. I that's funny and I agree because but it's also your stomach like I read a study that it's like your stomach like eating its own insides like maybe I should look at that fact a little better before I say something like that. I think

it's your body realizing before your mind that something is wrong. But like why does that feel so good? Because it's like rush but that's not sustainable. Wait, I'm looking this up. I don't know.

I'm not a doctor remember. Maybe I should go to school. Butterflies when you're having a crush, but what is actually happening? And let me just say crushes get crushed. Wait, say that again. What do you mean? Crushes get crushed? Like it's just a crush and it's not going to go anywhere?

Kind of. Because the crush is just a lack of information. Okay, yeah. as exciting as I thought I was going to be. Okay. What? That's funny. Okay, this isn't what I thought I was going to say, but it says like digestion temporarily

slows, blood flow shifts away from the stomach. The muscles and nerves in your digestive tract change their activity because your gut is packed with nerves and is closely connected to your brain through the gut, brain, axis vagus, nerve, whatever. You can physically feel those changes as fluttering, dropping, tingling, queasiness, or butterflies. So that actually is like wrecking your nervous system on the inside. It's literally your brain telling you, hey, this is not it.

This is danger. Oh, interesting. Fight or flight. Like, this is not good. Trust me, whenever you're feeling that anxiety, whenever you're screenshoting a text, whenever you're like spiraling, I promise you that's not your guy. And you obviously know from experience, what's the longest you've ever stayed with someone you knew wasn't going anywhere? It's more the opposite.

It was like I would be texting a guy for two months. He'd been only two dates. And I was like, he's the love of my life. And he would dump me. And I was like, what? Did you, like, did you ever go back to somebody where all your friends were like, what the hell are you doing? Yeah, of course, like my first love where you're like, the sex is so good and, you know. But then he fucked me over again.

Like, they, oh, I mean, I think your ex is spoiled milk. You can't put the milk back into the fridge and expect it to get fresh again. Do you agree or disagree? Yeah. No, I totally agree. I think there are instances where, yes, you can get back together with an ex. But you have to come back as basically two completely different people. I want to go to the no funeral because you actually created something called the

no funeral, which might be my favorite phrase in the whole book. It's basically a funeral for the situation ship that you should have buried three months ago. So what is the, because I've had a funeral for an ex before, but what is a funeral actually like involved when you're saying this? I feel like it was really important to get like actionable things you can do. I think when you're, you can be like, okay, like I won't speak to him again. I think we need like a seance. Like we need a ritual. We need something.

I love a little drama. And let's do that. And also like when you have friends there to hold you accountable, that's very helpful. I got ghosted once. I've, have you been ghosted before? I haven't. See, yeah, that doesn't surprise me. Because you're a bad bitch.

But like for me. You're so are you. I know. But like I got ghosted. I couldn't believe. You know, we talk about ghosting a lot. But like when you get ghosted, it's really destabilizing. Because it's like, like, I exist.

Like, I slept at this guy. Like, we were dating. And then, like, I was like, he asked me out again. And I was like, okay. Like, and I said, I did make the mistake where I was trying to confirm the date. I don't think you should do that. That's their job. But whatever.

And then I was like, where's the restaurant? Nothing. Ghost, ghost, ghost, ghost. Ghosted me. I was so upset. Went to dinner with my friends. We all wore black. And we were like, RIP, Teddy.

Like, you. And it was the best feeling ever. And so I thought about, okay, how can we actually. actually like create a ritual out of that. And so I say in the book, like, dress up in black, get a photo of him and light it on fire. And like your friends can do it too with all other things. I did that. They're really love. Yeah. It's so good. There's something that brings closure to it. Because the closure is not going back and getting the conversation and saying the thing or, you know, it's not that. It's just for your own, your own like mental state. Absolutely. And then a couple

months later, I'm walking down the street. No stop. There's Teddy. And there's Teddy. And there's Teddy. and he waves at me. And I literally look at him. And then I just keep walking because I'm like, I don't see ghosts. He waved? He waved, yeah. He didn't reach out or anything after that. Never spoke out.

Just a wave like that never happened. But it was a really, I believe sometimes, I believe in signs. Sometimes, like I think that that happened for a reason. Because it was literally like the universe being like, practice what you preach. Yes. And I was like, absolutely. We'd have a funeral. He doesn't exist.

That's funny. And that's funny that we associated with the ghost. That's funny. I do believe it helps to move on. Yes. I really do, like the funeral aspect of it. Like, I really do believe that helps to move on. I think everyone should do it.

I remember it was like a headline because I said it on a podcast or something and they're like, Caitlin Russell holds funeral for X and everyone's like, she's crazy. And I'm like, I don't care. It made me feel so good. It is one of the most cathartic things you can do. And I think it's bringing, it's also making something that is sad. fun. Yeah. Like, this guy. Like, the love of your life will want to date you. Yes. Like, like, tattoo that into your brain. So I'm, so anyone who is giving you mixed signals or doesn't want

to date you, like, goodbye. Like, that's just not your man. I'm, I'm guessing that you're very sold on the phrase if you want to do, he would. It's a chapter in the book. Love that. Make it that, make it that simple. I do agree. I mean, your brain just plays tricks on itself, though, when you're in that phase. Because you don't want to accept this. It's easier to come up all the excuses as to why, why, why, instead of the what? And the what is that he's just not giving you what you need. The funeral can be for him and for your ego. Absolutely. Yeah. Okay, I actually think some of the biggest relationship questions start after you find the person. I agree. So on that note, can you love your partner and still miss being single? I personally don't

because I soaked up being single. I did everyone. I did everyone. I did everyone I wanted. to. I was a New York City girl. I've also been like, I lived in New York City my whole life. So I've been going out since I was like 15. Yeah. I feel like I soaked it up. That's why when girls are messaging me at 23 years old being like, I'm freaking out, I want a boyfriend. I don't have my person. I'm like, enjoy being young. Enjoy this. So I personally, do I think it's wrong? No, but it's like, do you miss being single or do you miss independence? And I think that you can get independence while you're still in a relationship, but you have to make that choice. That's so true. I definitely agree with you. And I never, I never understood having my own independence in a

relationship until recently and how empowering it is. And I thought like, we should be doing everything together. And if he was like off doing something without me, I was always so wildly insecure until I don't, I don't know what age it was. I feel like I was maybe, it was after Sean from Bachelorette days, I was like, why am I doing this to myself? And then I feel like I went hyper-independent. And now I'm finding a great mix of both. Right. And also when you're right the right, when you're with the right person and who makes you feel secure and it supports you and wants you to go on a girl's trip and wants you. And you guys first said then, like, why not? I have a great trick in the book that I talk about that I love, which is like,

you should obviously have date night with your partner. Because like you should have a full life, but I also love spending so much time with my partner. But it is really good to take to your own thing. Yes. Because men love to miss you. Like they need to miss you a little bit. Keep them on your toes. I also like to miss them, period.

So I love this little hack where it's like if you have date night, go to the date separately. Like how cute is that? Oh, that's cute. Instead of like going to the restaurant together. So it's kind of like your meeting. Wait, that's really cute. Right. So it's like you're meeting for the first time or like it's like a first or second date.

I think that is such a fun way. And you like dress up and they're like, You look good. It's like, hi, I'm Serena. Like, roll play that shit. That's actually really cute. Okay, can you be happy in your relationship and still like getting attention from other people? So I don't, I went into a restaurant recently and a group of guys like turned and looked at me.

And I ran to my boyfriend. I go, you'll never believe what just happened. This group of guys literally like, they thought I was the hottest thing. I was so proud. So, and he was like, I thought that that would make him feel good too. So I don't know. Like, it's not like I went up to them. I was giving them my number, but I don't know. I think it's fun. And by the way, I again,

feel very secure in my relationship. So when he gets, I mean, it doesn't happen that often, but like if there's a situation where like he gets eye f***ed on the street or I don't know, I'm like into it. I'm like, good. Like I have a hot man. Like, I agree. I will, okay, do you think flirting's cheating? I guess it depends how far you take it. But yeah. I think like it's like a little he he like fine. You don't always like, but I don't know. Like I think there's a line of respect. And if you respect your partner, you know what that line is. I think that's exactly right, the respect. But I heard Justin Bieber talk about how if you even think about another girl that's cheating.

Interesting. I know. But he's very by the book and by the book, I mean the Bible. So I feel like he's that's like ingrained in him maybe. I mean, I will say like I don't feel any jealousy. I've talked about this with my boyfriend a lot. Like I don't feel any jealousy because he says to me he's just like, you can't control. someone. You can't control. If they're going to cheat, they're going to cheat. If they don't want to

be. We always say it's like, we don't want to be with someone. Just don't be with that. Yeah. So I agree. How long have you guys been together? Almost four years. Oh, wow. Yeah. Oh, legit. That's why I waited to write the book until I was like, okay. Okay. That's smart. I know what I'm talking about. Yeah. Absolutely. Okay. Can you be in a healthy relationship and go through a period where you genuinely don't like each other very much. I'm not sure. Maybe you would know better than me? I don't know.

I'm still riding this high almost four years in. I guess. I'm sure it goes in waves. Well, I've just heard it so many times of married couples who like genuinely like just can't. And it's very, I get so defeated because I'm like, okay, this sounds like it happens to everybody so it should make us feel more comfortable if it does happen. But then I'm like, that's so defeating. Okay, so I'll tell you two things I've heard over the years from because, okay, so I, my,

for context, like, my parents got divorced when I was two. My family lives abroad. I don't have siblings. So I didn't have this, like, example of a healthy, loving relationship. So that's also why I've been so obsessed with it, I think, growing up and writing this book. So over the course of my life, whenever I mean a couple, I'm like, what's your secret to staying together? And that's chapter in this book. It's called The Glue.

And I compiled all of it over the years. Some of my favorite things is one, which I think you'll like is taking a lot of trips solo, like, or as in like not together, like girls tripped. Yes. Actually, time away keeps you close together because you, you aren't like this all the time. You have men are like rubber bands. They need to stretch, stretch, stretch, stretch, stretch. And then they immediately bounce back.

Always. Always. And then what did someone else say? Oh, laughter. Oh. You have to laugh. That's my main thing. I need that.

You need, if you are laughing, you're good for the long haul. I mean, you know, there are other things that are going to come up. But like, I think that those were two, like, things that really stuck with me. Something else that I thought was really good was, you know, the whole don't like each other thing. I think a lot of like resentment stems from just like not talking about things. And I, we have this rule in my relationship where I'm like the second we feel some type of way about something, even if it was like nonintended, whatever, just say something. Like if I'm upset, I'm like I didn't like the way you talk to me or I didn't like the way you whatever, immediately just like just get rid of it. You just talk it through because I feel like if you swallow that shit in, that's when it will implode.

Yeah. No, I agree. I always say, everyone knows it on the podcast, but communication is lubrication. It's, oh, I love that. Yeah. I love that. Should have made that a chapter. I know. That's hot. What is the 3P theory? Okay. So I believe there's no such thing as a shitty date. Do you believe that or not? No, I completely disagree. What? I've had a shitty date. Okay. I believe there's no such thing as a shitty date other than the obvious, which is like the scary stuff. So let's take that out. Okay. Every date you should only be looking at. for three things, basically deciding if the man is... Is this the three P's? These are the three P's. Okay.

There could be a fourth fee of like... First fee is potential. Yeah. All you should be doing when you go on a date is, is there potential for another date? Not, is he going to be my husband? Okay, like, maybe not The Bachelor. This is not the three P's there. But for this specifically, like, is there potential for another date?

Yes or no? No. There isn't. Okay. Well, I'm stuck on the date anyway. Great. That's practice. Because when there's no stakes and you don't care, because you don't care, because you don't care,

you're not going to see them again. Suddenly you're more relaxed. You're testing your material. You're seeing if that joke landed. You're in your vibe. And then what you're going to do is you're just going to replicate that on the next date. And then we're going to become more comfortable. I think a lot of the anxiety around dating is just the anticipation not having dated. Practice makes perfect. So you're saying like if the date's terrible, it's actually not. It's just giving you information. And you're learning. Okay. And you're vibing. And you're saying, why is the date terrible? Is it because he is X, Y, and Z or he didn't ask me something. Like that's also data that you are recording for yourself so you know what you want. Yeah. It's also about you, about feeling empowered and just

feeling like in your vibe. Then if there's a date that's really shitty, a disaster, but it's like a great story, it's for the plot. I do love that. That's true. If it is a disaster's date and we love those stories. Everyone wants a good shitty date story. I mean, it's one of my first questions to you. I'm like, tell me the worst story. Literally. Yeah. It's so good. Everyone has one. And it's like, I don't know. I feel like, you know, you could write it in your memoir one day, tell your therapist, tell your friends at brunch. It's a win, win, it's a win, win. And then, of course, if there's a little more extra, there's a fourth P. But that's, well, we all like that fourth P. You encourage dating multiple people. How many people are we talking,

like for your average girl out there dating? Like, people who are listening, what's, what do you think? Okay. I think that the reason why we become fixated on one guy, you know, like, beyond that, after that first date, we're, like, freaking out is because of the scarcity mentality. We're like, if it doesn't work out with him, I have to start all over. I have to go on the apps. It's like, oh, like, and so what that does is like we tend to ignore red flags. We tend to become obsessed with them just because they're only the person in front of us. When I say this, this is another take of mind that it seems very controversial because I think it's misunderstood. I'm not saying to be in three different relationships at a time.

Yeah. I'm saying that on Tuesday you have a date with Brad. On Thursday, you have a date with Chad. And then you're also texting Dave that you met at a bar a couple weeks ago and seeing if you can be next week. it's just about having men in your orbit so you're not putting all your eggs in one basket. And the reason for that is that's what dating is. It's getting to know people. It's comparing and contrasting.

It's seeing what works for you. Yeah, because I was asking the matchmaker on a pod the other day about like if you've gone on three dates and he's still on hinge, is that a problem? No, because you can still be dating too. And you should be. And you should be. But what if you have that feeling like they're the one? You should still go try? I actually would argue this. If you have that feeling, that's exactly why you need to go.

It's not, you're not being deceitful or you're single until you're not. But that's exactly. You know why? Because you will feel in control. And then you'll start to be like, am I feeling like he's the one because he's the only one there? Or because he's actually the one. And you'll know that when you want to date with someone else. Facts. I feel like a lot of people are with me on this. I have reached the point in my life where getting into bed at the end of the day is genuinely one of my favorite. favorite things to do. Like, I could have the busiest, most chaotic day. Knowing I get to crawl into my cozy bed at the end of it makes everything better. It's like well deserved. And honestly,

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progressive casualty insurance company affiliates and other insurers not available in all states here's what i find funny about writing a dating book okay okay now you have receipts you can't just change your mind and pretend you never said it you have a whole book so how good are you at actually taking your own advice oh god tell me what is something you believed about relationships before meeting it's felix right before meeting felix that you completely changed your mind about age he's six years younger than me. I was like, I'll never date a guy that's younger than me. People always told me you're too intimidating. Men can't handle you, which is ridiculous.

But I always felt like I was just going to be too much for a guy my age and totally surprised. I love that. Where's he from? New York City like me. Oh, he is. He's from Brooklyn. So he can handle it. A hundred percent. I love that.

Does he ever read something in the book and go, interesting, because that is not what you do? So I actually made him Apple F his name to find out all the passages to make sure that he was okay with that. But no, I was really honest. I was like, this is what worked for me, take it or leave it. Some things are going to work. Some things are not. But I genuinely believe I was right about everything. Is there a non-negotiable that you had to cross off with him? Like, you're like, oh, shit. I'll let that one go. I think it was less that it was a non-negotiable and more like, oh. Well, I think that I had this idea that I couldn't date anyone who was sober. I mean, it's like California's sober. So I, in my 20s and the party girl, getting blacked out.

And I was like, I could never date a guy that doesn't party like me. Now I'm like, especially because he's younger. Like you would expect a 26-year-old to be like out with his buddy's drinking. It's like, ew, I don't want to do that. No shade. Obviously, if you do that, you'll have it great. But to have someone who's like doesn't really like it, doesn't want to do it. And it's just, it's healthy.

It's good. And honestly, I don't have to worry about him. I don't have to like deal with a drug. Yeah. And mature beyond. He's like 45. Yeah, there are. He's old soul beyond.

It's, they don't make him like that anymore. Well, this is the thing. I think you need to not assume that every younger guy is going to be immature and every older guy is going to be mature because we know some Peter Pan's that don't want to grow up. It's about just having more of an open mind. Yeah. No, I totally agree. And I feel like the person you think you're going to date is never the person you end up dating. Well, also, I'm 41 and I have like the most immature sense of humor. I am like it took me a long time to actually like be in a healthy mindset, feel mature, feel like I'm ready for the next step in my life. Like it took me a long time. time to get there, yet I judge younger men. I'm like, ew. Right. Right. Exactly. I'm such a hypocrite. It's ridiculous. Does being the person who talks about relationships for a living ever make you overanalyze your own? Great question. I don't think so. It's more like the being tied to my business. It's like, do I need to like make the TikTok of him like kissing me and like twirling me around? And he's like, no. I think he was realizing that. you do not need to shove your relationship on.

And I talk about my relationship, but of course we post cute pictures, but I did feel this pressure of like, I need to show how happy we are. And then I was like, wait, like, no, I don't. And actually, I feel like the people that do feel that aren't actually happy.

I agree. So like, and I feel like, you know, you've done it. You've done it. And so he would kind of clocked me there. And he was just like, why do you feel the need that you have to like, you have to twirl you around and make out with you on camera?

Like, we can do that in private. We don't need an audience for that. And like, you're so right. Like, I don't, But I think it was that pressure of being like, look, I'm the dating person and it's so intrinsic to my career. But I actually think the opposite now where it's just like, just let it speak for itself. Yeah, exactly. Show don't tell.

Exactly. Okay. I've got a game for you. Okay. Yes, it's great advice. I think people assume if you wanted to be what extends into relationships. So that's why they get all like, well, no, no, no, no. Like, that's not what I'm saying. Once you're in a relationship, no, you have to communicate your needs, etc. But when he's courting you, a man that wants to court you and wants to date you will do all the things. He will actually act with a sense of urgency. Like you're going to get like suddenly like taken off the market. Right? Exactly. Okay. You'll find love when you stop looking. an extremely annoying take, but I do agree with it. In the sense of like, do you want me to defend my answers when I agree? Yeah.

Okay. I think this is how you stop looking for it, even though we all know it's in the back of your mind because I hated hearing that when I was single. It's about doing things for yourself, like stepping outside your comfort zone. Take that class you've always wanted to take. Maybe try a different macha spot one morning. Go to a gym that you've never been to. Move to a different city.

And this isn't with the goal of meeting someone, but it's about expanding your your life, squeezing the juice out of a life that has to offer. And then when you're in that energy, your magnetic is and that's when you're going to meet your person. That's so true. I, if anybody's drinking, they should just drink every time I say that's so true. And you can drink every time I say. 30 million times. Yeah. Well, good. You agree with me. I love that. Never go to bed angry. I agree with us. Really? I disagree completely. Oh, okay. So you're going in bed with a pitchfork and I'm totally fine with that because then I wake up in the morning. I'm like, oh, you silly little bit. You were just being so dramatic.

over it. Right. But defend yours. It's happened before. I like to work. I like to hash it out. Okay. Sometimes maybe you just need to take a little beat. I actually think you need to take a beat. Like we think it's really heated. Just go for a walk or go to sleep. Or go to sleep. See? So there you go. Once a cheater, always a cheater. I'd like to think no. But what do you mean? Like that's not good advice or that is good advice. Oh, sorry. I thought you're asking me. I don't love the cheating thing. Yeah. What do you think? I mean, sorry, who loves it. Well, I do.

No, nobody. But I think there are people who are serial cheaters who are that definition of like, once a cheater, always a cheater. And then I think there's people who have like actually blown up their life and learned from it and would never do it again. I agree. Yeah. And I think that you have to give people second chances.

I believe in second chances. Unless like they did something horrific. Right. Heriff. I love shortening words. Never text your ex. We're not retiring. that that's for fucking sure.

Okay. Never. No happy birthday. Like, none of that. Is that your life? I have one that I happy birthday text. But it's because I'm such good friends with his parents still and I like don't have a problem

with him and it's like the one time we like say. So you're just like, happy birthday. Happy birthday. Okay. It's so dumb. I can't. It's nice, I guess. Well, it's I don't.

It was I think I was 23 when I dated him and I'm just still so close with his parents. Okay. That's fine. That's different. There's enough time. But I'm just like why. Like what do you want out of this? agree. Well, usually people do it for a different reason. To talk. Yeah. Or it's like Merry Christmas. Oh, please. I don't even like getting to Merry Christmas from like friends sometimes. I hate it. I'm like, girl. I have like 48 Merry Christmas text and I now have to say, same to you. I hate it. I don't even like my birthday.

Well, it's a mass tax. Let's be for real. Yeah, but I don't like that. Even on my birthday, I'm like, you don't have to say happy birthday to me. It's okay. Right. Yeah. Okay. No, wait. Actually, it's so funny. You say that. Do you feel like sometimes when you're on Instagram and you're like swiping through stories? You're like, I have to wish them happy birthday now because I saw their stories. Yes. Yes. I do think that. That's a universal thought. Yeah. Okay. And I'm really bad at keeping track of people's birthdays. But I think that was what's Facebook was for. Now we're fucked. Now we have to Google how everything. That's so true. Yeah. Okay, I just said it again. Thoughts off of stuff. When you know, you know. Yes. Agree. Do you agree? No, because I've thought that twice.

It didn't work out from me. I thought I knew and then I, nope. But you knew in that moment. Yeah, but it wasn't. Right. But do you think that was clouded by it being on a show? The first one, yes. The second one, I was just bamboozled and tricked.

Okay, well. So I thought. That's not your fault. Relationships shouldn't be this hard. Absolutely. It's strange to me. I've been told a lot like, oh, well, just wait. Like, it's kind of, yeah, I know you hear that.

It's like, it's really hard. Yeah. I'm like, oh, no, I think it's the opposite. I think life is hard. I think our parents are going to die one day. Like, we might lose our job. Like, we might go through a really difficult situation, a friend breakup, whatever. You want that person to be your safe place, to be your soft landing, to be able to feel like,

at home with them. So that has to be. That's why when girls are like, you know, I went on two dates, now I haven't heard from him and I'm feeling so anxious. I'm like, then it's not your guy. The beginning needs to feel so easy. Yes. Because then shit gets hard in light. So you need to know that you guys are like this, like solid ground. Okay. The right person won't give you the ick. I disagree with this. Yeah. Same. The right person will absolutely give you an act. I'm only... There's different levels of an egg. Do we agree?

Yes, yes. And I, if, like, I can't imagine getting the icks so serious that I, like, couldn't look at him again and, like, needed it out. But, like, little icks will happen. And I'm... But it's realizing that I'm being ridiculous. So, when I first started dating my boyfriend on our, like, third date or fourth date, he wore the tightest pants. He's French. So the tightest...

And they were, like, plaid, tight-ass pants and a turtleneck. And he just, like, looked gay. Like, it was just giving Metro Beyond. It was giving Komo, you know, just like, and I love my gays, but I don't want to date one, you know? Right. So I was like, and I remember we took a mirror selfie, and he was like the full fit. And I was like, oh, I'm getting the thick. And then I was like, okay, this is something that can be fixed.

So we start dating. We're super in love. And then I say to him, I want you to burn those pants and never wear a turtleneck again. And he did. And he listens, sweet. But this is the point that I'm saying is I think that sometimes when we're dating, we just find the little things we're like, oh, could never date him. You were crocs, which is like, whatever. But you know what I mean? I think when a guy call me crazy, crocs and flip flops are hot. Okay, great. That's what I'm saying. It works for some, not for others. I'm like the confidence. I think the flip flop can be hot, but they have to have nice feet. Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. And it's very European. Like, I've been seeing the vibes like there. It's Canadian too. Okay, love. Because I don't know why it's Canadian, but I feel like I always associate. it with a hockey player.

Right. They always wore flip-flops and I could smell them from a mile away and I'd be like, oh, he, in a good way. So we think, oh, you could smell their feet and it was a good thing. No, no, no, like I can smell a hockey player from a mile away because my Canadian knows is like, you know I'm Canadian too, right? No. I didn't tell you this, sorry.

You're Canadian? Yes. My nana is from New Brunswick, my whole family. Oh, I love Eastern Canadian people too. They're the best. Wait, really? Yeah, eh? New Brunswick, too?

Those are like the good people there. The sweetest, the best people. I love Canadians and a lot of family in Montreal as well. Canadians, look at our colors right now. I know. We really do be looking Canadian. I love it. Okay, last one.

Opposites attract. Attract. Yes. Yeah. I think in every relationship there should be a rock and a star. Yes. There should be one that's like, and I don't mean star like famous. I mean like just like no.

Big bright shining personality, a little too loud, like social butterfly. And then someone who's more like grounded, solid, patient. peaceful. I totally agree with this. And those are the best. And I've dated, I'm obviously a star. Yeah. Duh. And I dated another star and it was the most toxic mass because it's just explosion, explosion. You just want that energy to be really good. And that's what I'm, that's when I think opposites attract in that way. Yes. I agree. Okay, so tell everybody where I mean, sure you can get the book anywhere you get books, but where can they find you? Are you going to do like a book signing somewhere? What are you going to do? My book is called let's date. Become the prize, enjoy the ride. And

never settle again. I poured my heart and sold into this. I wrote the whole thing myself. It's amazing. Put my English degree major to use. And you can find it on let's date.com. Wherever books are sold, you can find me and Serena Kerrigan. I respond to so many of my DMs if you ever have dating advice needs questions. But everything, if you're listening and like you're scared, you're not going to find your person, you will. I agree. Just believe. You will. And like it could happen tomorrow. It could happen in five years. Just enjoy the ride. Yeah.

You have a long life. I love that. Thank you so much for coming on the podcast. Thanks so much for having me. It was a long time coming. I'm a big fan of yours. That's so sweet. I literally looked at your page and I was like, oh, my vibe.

Yeah. Yeah. That's how I always follow about you. That's so funny. Well, and you live here. Yeah. So we're hanging out. Thank you so much for coming on the pod.

It was so fun. Thanks for listening, everybody. I'm Caitlin Bristow and I'll see you next Tuesday. In this life, you can't win. When the world gets you down. No. Escape to Pluto TV. This is objectively.

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