Off The Vine with Kaitlyn Bristowe - Shannon Beveridge | The Journey to Being Queer, Clear, and Authentically Sincere!

Episode Date: December 3, 2024

#794. This week, Kaitlyn is joined by the dynamic Shannon Beveridge and her dear friend Bailey Stanworth for an unforgettable chat. Shannon, the multi-talented YouTuber, director, and LGBTQ+ advocate, opens up about her journey from launching nowthisisliving in 2012 to becoming a strong voice in the queer community. She shares her personal coming-out story, how she finally feels at home in her identity, and the lessons she’s learned navigating public relationships. The trio dives into everything from Canadian design critiques and Dolly Parton conspiracies to the top five people they’d invite to their dream dinner party. Tune in for a mix of vulnerability, humor, and heart! If you’re LOVING this podcast, please follow and leave a rating and review below! PLUS, FOLLOW OUR PODCAST INSTAGRAM HERE! Thank you to our Sponsors! Check out these deals! Alo Yoga: That’s ALOMOVES.com code VINE for a 30-day free trial, and 20% off an annual membership! Every Plate: Get affordable dinners for just $5.99 per serving, PLUS 50% off your first box by going to EveryPlate.com/PODCAST and entering code vine599. Range Rover: Explore the Range Rover Evoque at LandRoverUSA.com See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Okay, let's talk about the original enemies to lovers story. Before all of our reality TV couples, before the rom-coms, we binge, there was Elizabeth Bennett and Mr. Darcy in pride and prejudice. And Audible has just dropped a brand new original that will have you completely hooked, I am. It's not just any audiobook. This is a full cast performance. So Marisa Abella, you might know her from industry, brings Elizabeth Bennett to life.

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So whether it's your first time experiencing Pride and Prejudice or you've read it a million times, you're going to fall absolutely in love all over again. So go listen to Pride and Prejudice now at audible.ca slash Jane Austen. Off the fly. I saw Robbie last night, Gabby's girlfriend, and I fangirled. And I'm like, this is so strange to me because I'm going through some. weird thing in life where I feel ashamed to ask

people for photos. What? Interesting. I know. Like at dance, I was at Dancing with the Stars last night. Friends. Friends of mine. I was like, I don't want them to think I'm just. Social climbing them. Yeah. You're like, you're my bestie. I'm like way to, I don't know, in my head about taking

photos with people or doing stuff. I'm like, do they think I'm just going to like do that because they're on Dancing with the Stars right now and not because I actually just like them. And then, I don't know. But I didn't get that shirt. I like recently she's like last night yeah last night it does her with the stars no I don't it started I've always like not wanted to like if I saw seal one time and I was like I have to ask for a photo with seal but he ended up being a bachelor friend so it was fine but like I've seen some of the biggest celebrities in airports and I just can't I could never do it but like this is very recent that it's my own friends I feel like that's such an LA problem also I'm dying at like the jump from rock Bobby Hoffman to seal as if they like exist in any universe together is crazy that's a good point they weren't together but like just hearing those names back to back yeah wow and I had to like justify myself to Robbie I was like I don't usually ask to take photos with people and she was like

this cool yeah why am I making it weird wait now I want to know Shannon if you had a dinner party five guests anybody who would it be oh my god good question well Robbie Hoffman and seal Yeah, no, because now we got, we've already pictured it in our head, so we've got to know what that's like. It has to be. Probably like Sarah Paulson. Oh, I love her. I feel like I would do like a bunch of like, hmm, Ellen DeGeneres. Really?

I need to talk to that woman. Yeah. Once in my life. I've got questions. Right? Do they all have to be alive? No. No.

Oh, my God. It's your, it's your game. And I was like, no. No, no. Anyone. No. I can't say it. I just was watching.

I just was watching. Watching Chris Clemens' YouTube video and this person was saying on there that they don't think Helen Keller was a real person. So I almost said Helen Keller. I'm like, this is not a lesbian. Well, maybe. We never know. Who knows? I can't think of anyone else. Robbie Hoffman's seal. So I have four. Okay. And Vanessa. That's nice. Because can you imagine what she would be saying to those people? Get her a couple Jameson shots. Oh, my God. You like Jameson? I used to love Jameson. I went through a big Jameson phase when I worked at a bar. and as you should I would it was almost scary how much I could drink I feel like yeah you can build a tolerance to something like that fast my tolerance right now is for gin where's the wine I thought you drink wine on your podcast I'm so annoyed so we screwed this up because I don't usually podcast at the studio okay and Shannon's like I'm leaving where is my wine I'm actually so I should have figured this out because I said to my producer who usually sets it up I'm like so is there wine at the studio and she was like no and I was like What's the point? What? And she was like, well, let's see if she actually went out of her way to see if they could bring it to the studio from the other one, but it's like in storage. Got it.

But I should have just brought wine in general. I'm sorry. It's okay. It is 1.30 on Thursday. Yeah, but that don't stop me. I mean, I would like it. I think it's Wednesday. What the hell? I don't know where I am. I said that at the beginning. Okay. Let's talk about you. Okay. We can.

I want to. I'm like, if we must. I want to, you've been doing a YouTube channel since 2012. yeah that's so crazy because YouTube I feel like has been a journey for like it went through a lull and now I feel like people are back yeah yeah yeah do you feel the same way oh my god yeah it was definitely like I think it peaked but I feel like it's gonna peak again yeah really I think well not anytime soon like I think it's on the rise again yeah I think people's attention spans are so short but also now we're also like all craving something longer yeah also like I think podcasts are doing so well so hard for me to talk

to you because I'm like, but crank your neck. Yeah, I think YouTube is like going to come back. Oh, wait. How do you grow YouTube? I find it so hard because all I'm posting is podcast videos. Do you post like everything? No, now I'm just podcast.

Like I'm not doing, but I might do a few like vlogs. I moved into a new house. So I'm going to do like a, what do you call it? Showing my house. A tour. Thank you. A house tour. Please call it a show in my house now.

I'm going to call it a showing my house. Please subscribe. You just bought a house? No. Oh my God, I want to wish. No, I just moved into a place by myself for the first time. And I'm like 32. Oh. So do you like that though? Or do you? I've loved having roommates forever. But I feel like it was time. Yeah. It was getting into like kind of like a red flag territory. I'm like, why? Why do you still have roommates? I would go into debt in my 20s just so I could live alone. Really? Yeah. Oh my God. I love being around people. Also, like, I went I was in a sorority in college so I lived with a hundred girls so I feel like one girl I can handle for sure I feel like I really missed out on college days did you go maybe just don't well you don't have it really yeah it's like you don't have college in Canada they're like I have purse I have purse clearly I didn't go to college so we do it's we have universities yeah but college is like not or like sorority houses yeah no no it's a little different yeah from what I know and we don't have like

prom king and queen we have like a graduation party okay it's just we're like same same only a little different yeah also both of those things are a little toxic anyway so maybe Canada's doing it right Canada's always doing a little right a little better than America yeah a little bit yeah not everything though your graphic design is terrible tell me more like when you drive around Canada and you see like the restaurants and like the shopping centers the fonts and like the pictures that they use it's like all like pick art. This is the first time I've heard this complaint, but you're so valid. It literally looks like. It also feels like you're in like a movie set of like what they think a town would look like. I'm like, that's not what a shopping center should look like. That's funny. It's very

cheap. The graphic design. I'm glad I asked you to elaborate. Thank you. Anytime. Who's your five that you would go to dinner with? Yeah. Did you have an answer? I realized I was like, wait, I want to go around the table here. Okay. I think about this a lot. Mine would definitely have Robin Williams in it. Oh, good one. I think Betty White. Ooh. Dolly Parton.

Yep. Yep. These people are all old. Yeah. I want to learn about their lives. Yeah. I need someone gay in there for sure. Daly Parton.

Wait, what? Isn't like, Dolly Parton's gay? Like secretly. Really? Okay. I'm for this if she is. I mean, that would be... Give us the conspiracy thing.

I mean, I feel like I'm outing her, but also I'm like, obviously I do not know Dolly Parton. Right. But it's like a conspiracy theory that she's like, maybe queer and that she's like covered in tattoos underneath but you're like yeah oh I have heard that conspiracy theory yeah watch this pop up my TikTok it will it when you'll and you're welcome you go on a dive but yeah she's like surround there she has like a lot of queer friends like she's always hanging out with all these lesbians and then people are like oh my god but people thought

Oprah was lesbian what's the truth nobody ever knows the whole gale and Oprah thing and then Oprah was like no I'm not interesting it's all a spectrum we're all gay I think everyone's a little gay well that's there is There's a scale for that. Yeah, the Kinsey scale? Yeah. Okay, wait, continue. Yeah. I don't know.

Now I'm on the spot. Well, now, exactly. It was really hard. It's a tough question. And also, I feel like I just added Dolly Parton. No, you were saying a conspiracy. Yeah. And maybe that's just a little bit of hope for us, too.

Oh, my God. I hope everyone's gay. The world would be a better place. I know. Honestly, yes. Yeah. I said it on two podcasts now, actually, that it's on my vision board to be fully gay. Oh, my God.

Do it. I think you could commit to that. I do think I could commit unless you can't well right now not at the moment I can't wait can I say who I would want at my dinner table okay this is your podcast you can do what you want I was like may I say mine um okay I would go Kurt Cobain great answer I would also go oh I'd add Freddie Mercury oh that's a good one too yeah that's my gay one oh that is a good one um wait i had like five in my head and now i'm realizing no no no but i'm realizing when you're on the spot it is hard no five is also a lot of people princess diana um great answer too we i want

maryland monroe oh good one um need to know some things yeah okay p did it just kidding let's cut that out it would be it would be to murder him jesson beber i'm throwing him in there great and then i'm going to go brittney spears i've got questions for all these these people. Uh-huh, same. And then my last one, that's sad, but my girlfriend who passed away. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

Okay, moving on. That's my five. Now cry. And now, oh, I'm like, now we're all sad. And now I'm like, move on to your notes, Caitlin. Okay, what made you start the YouTube channel? Well, I was, I'm from Dallas originally. I was going to college in Oklahoma.

I was in a sorority. I knew I was gay. I had never seen, like, a lesbian that I thought looked like me. and I didn't know. Like, I was like, can I live like this? Yeah. And then I found out about Tumblr, which is like a blogging site. Oh.

Do you know it? No? Perfect. So I got on Tumblr and then on Tumblr there was like this whole like lesbian mecca of like people. And I slowly got like followers on Tumblr. And then I wanted to like tell everyone my answer. Like I would get a lot of the same questions over and over again. Yeah.

So I was like, I'll just make a Q&A. and then I'll just like say all these answers and then I won't have to keep answering them. But it was like before YouTube was YouTube. So I had it like unlisted only on my Tumblr. So you could never like find me on YouTube. And then when I graduated college, I had like a good amount of followers on Tumblr.

And I was like starting a clothing line at the time. I was like, you know what would help me sell the stuff as if I had like more people listening to me just like talking about this other stuff. And then obviously that stuff worked better than the other stuff. Yeah. just yeah so then did it have part of like so was that your coming out was on i definitely came out on youtube yeah cool yeah but i also came out in real life like to friends and family like slowly

over time yeah but it was definitely like more of a like a survival tactic than it was like oh my god let me be an an influencer because that word really didn't exist like i didn't think it was a job or anything yeah 2012 definitely no yeah i feel like 2015 is when it started yeah when it got way more yeah i always joke because i moved to l.A. in 2015 yeah and like when i first got here uber drivers would be like what do you do and i'd be like oh i make youtube videos and they'd be like oh like you can make money from that and then like a year later the same uber drivers would be like can i give you my card yeah oh they were like oh there's like something happening on that website you know that's my grandpa actually went viral on youtube no way for he was i think he was

93 and he was doing a Zumba class. Stop it. Yeah. And he knew what he was doing. He found the camera. He knew and he was working it and it was on the news and then it like went viral. And he said, I'm getting hit on the YouTube. I'm getting hits.

I don't know what it means, but I'm getting hits on the YouTube. And it was a precious moment. I'm like, why do I? Yeah, he knew what it meant. I feel like he had a plan. Oh, you don't just do Zumba. and post it on YouTube at 93. It was his, it was on the news, the local news.

They filmed it. Oh my God. They filmed it. Okay, I was like, he knew how to upload it. This guy's amazing. No, no, no. Got it. But he, and he was so old, he had to, like, lift his own arm up to, like, do a dance move.

It was the best. I'll show it. I'll show it to you after. I'll put it on my YouTube. You should. It's pretty good. Please. Anyone can YouTube, Tom McClauchland.

Zumba dancing. It's so cute. But I feel like Dallas, and correct me if I'm wrong, because I'm very Canadian, but I feel like that's a tough place to like feel seen as a gay person. Yeah, especially then in like 2010 or whatever when I was like figuring it out. Right. Yeah, not a lot of like queer representation. Like did you grow up going to church and like, yeah. My parents are from Pennsylvania.

Oh, okay. But I grew up. I'm like the only person in my family who's born and raised Dallas like the whole time. Yeah. So my family itself was not that. Christian, but all of my friends were and all my friends' family. So it's like more like that energy is in everything that you do. Like you know, we did like a moment of silence when we went to school. Yeah. Yeah. Did you guys do that? No. Like we did the Pledge of Allegiance and then we had a

moment of silence, which was to pray. Every day. Every day. You know what? I went to Catholic school in elementary and junior high and we said our father prayer every morning. Yeah. The Catholic school makes more sense. I'm going to public school in Dallas and we're praying. Wow. You know? So it was definitely very Christian. Also I think in general Dallas is like a very Stepford Wives kind of energy going on. It's like the higher the hair, the closer to God

and all of the like bless your heart really means you're you dumb fuck. Yeah. Like that's Dallas. Yes, it's like very passive aggressive. And I feel like they're all pretending they're happy when they're not. A lot of that. I mean it's not all that obviously but yeah there is like a huge like part of the culture that feels very everything is like keeping up with the Jones right Joneses the Joneses I don't know yeah so being gay there it's like very like huh so then when did people was it one of those stories

where people like yeah I've told this story so many times I know people who like know me are like stop telling that story that's how I feel like every time my podcast I'm like my listeners are probably like we know we've heard this story a million times but my listeners haven't yeah also it's like impossible not to tell this because it's a big part of my coming story but basically I fell in love as a girl in high school her parents put a baby monitor in her room like overheard us talking about how we liked each other then outed me to my family but then I told my mom's like you're not gay and I was like you're not gay are you and I was like no I have a boyfriend which I did have a boyfriend so I was like I knew I was I knew I loved her but I in my I was

like please don't be gay please don't be gay so when I went to Oklahoma and I joined a sorority I was thinking like, oh, I am going to meet my husband in a fraternity basement somewhere and everything will be fine. And then I got there and I was like, oh my God, I'm living with a hundred women. And I'm a lesbian. Yeah. Yeah. It was like the universe being like, yeah. You're like, really? You thought that was going to straighten you out? By the way, no. Yeah, because it's one thing, like Colton Underwood, he was like, I'm going to go on the bachelor and have 30 beautiful women in front of me to not be gay literally and that will work if you had asked me to be the bachelorette when i was 21 years old i would have been like yes like that will work yeah but that does not work

wow so wait so how old were you when you came out uh well i was 16 about 16 when all of the stuff happened with the baby monitor and then i went to college so it was what i think when i was 19 i came out to my mom and my dad yeah and my sister but it was kind of like in a way It was kind of a silver lining that that experience happened because when I came out to them, it wasn't like, no way. They were like, okay. It was going to go one of two ways, you know? Whether she was a lesbian or that was a crazy experiment.

What happened with the girl from high school? Not good things, like conversion therapy. Oh, my God. Oh, no. Her parents started having, like, nightly, like, Bible studies and stuff with her every day after that. Do you know how she's doing now? I'm like aware vaguely that she

what she's doing I just found out like something crazy about her though I'm like whoa but I try not to talk about her obviously she's not like an internet person yeah and she's also not out but she did go on a podcast and talked about having like codependent friendships and she did say that

she had like this friendship she had three of them by the way two more after me oh I'm like this one on here but she was like only one was physical so she like kind of came out herself. So then I started talking a little bit more about that experience because I'm like, you told people.

Yeah. Because before I was always so scared that someone would be like, oh my God, I bet Shannon's talking about so and so if I explained it. It's such a personal thing. We obviously don't want to. Yeah, totally. But then when she went on the podcast, I'm like, okay, you told, you told, right. And it is also part of your story too.

Yeah. And also like no one, not like the general masses are ever going to figure it out. It's just more like, oh my God, if any of my high school friends, they would probably be like, oh, we always did. I was just I'm like more of like I love rooting for a love story that's so I'm like maybe maybe it'll happen again I'm like I love my girlfriend don't worry well and now you are such a strong voice for the community too like you've built such a beautiful thing thank you so much yeah I love talking about this stuff yeah gay stuff all the time gay stuff all the time well tell me about your girlfriend

oh my god my girlfriend Becca more she's so cute uh you too are annoyingly cute together oh I love that annoyingly cute man and woman grosses me out and annoys me, annoyingly cute gay women cutes me out. Yeah. Why is that? Like, I'm obsessed with Becca and Haley. Yeah. They're so cute.

They're so cute. I think because there's no man involved. Yeah. Just immediately more adorable. So adorable. Right? Yeah. And I asked her one time, I was like, what does she, do you get the ick at all?

She's like, she's like, you're going to hate this answer, but I don't. Yeah. I was like, wow. Women in general are. like less icky as Becca ever given yeah have you got the ick what did i know Becca said that that I did yeah yeah one time

I jumped at Best Buy because I made the camera like alarm go off and it like freaked me out so much and I was like we have to go we have to go we have to go she's like you just gave me the ick and I was like damn it uh what did she do wait she did something the other night didn't she and you're like bad as icky I forget yeah she did do something

she does like funny little quirky things like that I'm like Becca don't do that But I can't think of any. What was it? Wait, the ick for her was you jumped? Yeah, I jumped. Literally response to lower. Yeah, but I got panic.

She was like, don't do that. I'm like, well, I don't want to get in trouble and we have to go now. And actually it happened twice, two cameras. I just touched them. Back to back? Yes. Shannon. This Best Buy is sensitive.

And then I was like, you got to go. I think with girls, though, like immediately you're like, now you're still so cute. Yeah. No, it's like, that's adorable that you did that. Well, I'm talking about myself. I can't think of what the freaking thing is that Becca did. But she was like, did you just get the ick? I'm like, just a little bit.

Well, they say that you can't come back from the ick, but you can. Oh, my gosh. These are like mild. Yeah, mild icks. These aren't major icks. They're not like, oh, you didn't tip your server. That would be like an ick that you're like actually never talk to me again. Yeah, fair enough.

That's fair enough. Are you quite public with your relationship? I feel like for me, for a long time, it's just like trying to find a balance. Yeah. Because I think it's so important to be representing. And so, like, if you're in a relationship like that, showing people is like there's so much positivity there. Yeah. But also trying to make sure I don't like, I just never want to feel like I'm like capitalizing off my relationship or like monetizing.

Yeah, exactly. That's fair. Because I have done that before. Same. Not on purpose. Well, you don't realize you're doing it. You're not like, okay, and then tomorrow we're going to do this so that we get more. It's a slippery slope.

Yeah. Yeah. I feel, well, I know this because I know. you dated a fellow YouTuber is I'm trying to I did my research it's okay but I always feel creepy when I do that no no you have to I do it but you were very open about your relationship

with that one exactly did that kind of shift your perspective for the next one exactly yeah yeah so it now it's also like it was innocent you know like when that happened we didn't know what we were doing and like I also thought like oh I'm going to marry her so who cares if we are posting all the time right and then I'm like

oh my god wait you're 22 you're an idiot like yeah you didn't know anything Right. And then like I think just like having a digital footprint now too of like multiple relationships is where my fear comes into of like, it's just it's so hard. Like I'm in the same position. I've, but I'm not having representation for something bigger than I'm just like I'm just like don't want people in my relationship anymore. But totally. But I see where you're coming from. I'm kind of like you when you say it's a slippery slope. I love documenting vulnerable. moments and highs and lows and goods and bads and all of that. So how do you like navigate having, well, I guess because sometimes you do vlog, but you're also like a presence on social media and a voice. So how do you navigate what you do and don't share? How do you do that? I know. I'm like, teach me please. Yeah. Someone let me know too. Yeah. I don't know. I think it's a delicate balance. I think I overcorrect and undercorrect and I make mistakes all the time.

but just trying to make sure that I'm like all everything I post I wanted to be coming from like a really authentic place and so just checking in with myself checking in with my girlfriend to make sure like do you feel good about that yeah like I feel good about that and like we both have podcasts so also like yeah so like deciding how little or how much you talk about things yeah and like I'm becka's first girlfriend so I think on her podcast she's been doing like talking a lot about it because it is like a huge thing for her Like it's like a new experience and she's explaining to people and I think she's developed like this like following of women who are like more like her and like have been victim to like compette. You know? Compulsory heteronores.

Yeah. So a lot of her followers I think were like, oh my God, you're just like me. Like I feel this way too. So like she's having to talk about that experience and obviously every experience of hers is about me. Right. Versus like when I'm talking about my queerness on my podcast, I'm able to be a little bit more vague because I've been out. and gay for what a long time now yeah yeah do we need to put a number on it I'm curious but no I think 12 years right something like that 12 years yeah does that make sense what I said oh yeah yeah

okay absolutely like for example like I came out later in life and Becca I identify with honestly more than you because like I'm more of like a girly girl like them and I was definitely like way more societally like conditioned to be like I have to do things for the male gays or like be attracted to men and then if like hers is a voice I would have wished I had when I before I came out because I would have related to it so much a hundred percent and I probably wouldn't yeah related to her story because our struggle is so different so I'm just like happy I'm so happy she's talking about it because I'm like we need more people she's like kind of more like in a becket tilly lane yeah yeah yeah put it in like uh yeah for me to understand yeah

the beckas are beckaing yeah and doing the same thing Do you, like if someone doesn't follow you and they're going to, what kind of content would they? Yeah. So I have a podcast called X's and O's where it's like queer relationships and sex. Each week I interview a different guest. They're all queer. And yeah, we talk about a lot of different things from like gender identity to like sex and like queer sex and just like trying to create more conversation. Like I think we have so much. There's so many podcasts. Obviously in general. But I feel like there's so much. There's so much. normalization of straight sex and like there's so little for I feel like so quickly lesbian

anything lesbian sex becomes so sexual rather than just being like informative or like what kind of toys are you guys using you know but it instantly in a different context feels so sexual like I feel like people are thinking of like lesbian porn yeah so so many I think it's like a scarier thing to talk about or like more stigmatized to talk about it so I'm trying to like create that conversation and in a way that's like more like not that it's innocent but it's like just like conversational it's not for like an entertainment purpose yeah it's not like sensational trying to be like oh my god what kind of strap on to you yeah yeah yeah i mean we do sometimes talk about that but it's more like a this is a normal thing like curiosity and educational and

and we should talk about it yeah absolutely straight people talk about other stuff inclusive guess like it's something that i would like listen i mean i do listen to it and like relate to and but like all different types of queerness exist on your podcast exactly i think a huge problem also for myself was with my own youtube channel i got so sick of talking about myself like i was like oh my god what what more do i have to say and then like during covid and everything i was just like i just like feel like i said all the stuff i wanted to say so having a podcast that's guest focused and like it's nice to be able to give the microphone to someone else and I also feel re-inspired to like share my own what am I doing at 32 because everything I

ever made was like for a younger version of myself right and now I'm like wait I can do the same thing I wanted for my 18 year old self but like now my audience is more like my 27 year old self right you know oh that's interesting I like that yeah that's nice I feel like there are more conversations wait do you have a co-host no oh it's just you okay who did I have on my podcast and I think I Are you two having a podcast? I'll come to me, but... Like it till he came on my podcast. Did she?

Mm-hmm. You guys were on the same season, right? Yeah. I... Honestly, I think we were in love with each other and not him because we would like spend... Like, we would like hold each other's hand at Rose ceremonies, like hoping the other one wouldn't go home. That's so sweet. And like, napped together and like...

Wait, Jojo was on that season too, right? No, so she... Okay, so this is where it's confusing. I watched your season. I loved you. Oh, wow. Thank you. And I also thought you were queer coding.

And I also thought Becca was. I thought both, I was like, these girls are a little too interesting for the show. I definitely had a little crush on Becca. That's so cute. I definitely did. And she admitted to me that she did too. So love story we never knew about. Yeah.

Well, if you, before Becca came out, if you Googled Becca Tilly gay, it would come up as me and her and it would say, Becca and Caitlin talk about being the first gay couple to come out of. What the hell? Because we would talk about it. That's so. Oh, my God. Because I was always just shipping her with Jojo. They didn't give me enough.

They really, like, showed them so much on that Ben season, I feel. Yeah, they're like besty, besties. So Chris Soles was the season I was on. Becca was on that one with me. We were, she was final two. I was final three. And then Ben Higgins was on my season. And then Ben became The Bachelor.

And I was like, Becca, I could see you with Ben. And so then she went on Ben's season and met Jojo. The Bachelor was too weird. This is like the lesbian webs. Yeah, no. I know like it's no I'm familiar enough we all fam literally I know enough you guys so you and beck are like Eskimo brothers yeah yeah yeah there's a lot of that in bachelor bachelor world wait when did you come out well I didn't I don't really feel like I'm a comer outer because I don't really know what I am

so I don't I get scared to put a label on it yeah because I I am very much attracted to men for sure but then I'm attracted to energy and then I get attracted to women and I've been with women before. Fair enough. So I've never really had a coming out moment. The labels have so much value because obviously it helps people identify

but then I also get overwhelmed by them too because I'm like. Yeah, I get overwhelmed. Yeah. Like I came out as bio but I definitely feel like I'm way more gay. But then I'm like, what if I ever like a man again? I don't know. I don't want to. Right.

I feel like people, I will. I do think in 2020. Yeah, you're gay, really. don't do that no I feel like in 2024 we're finally being more fluid with like labels because we've seen it happen so much where like someone who identified as a lesbian falls in love with a man right and I think people are finally getting to a point where there's so many there's finally so many of us that it doesn't feel like so much of a betrayal anymore like when we lose a lesbian lose a lesbian which you never do but like if a lesbian if a lesbian if a lesbian who was out as a lesbian decides to be with a man, it's like, okay, I know 40 other lesbians to look up to or think about it's not as much. I think before it felt like a personal betrayal of like, you're lying. I do think if I ever got a boyfriend, people would be like, what the f is wrong with you? That one would be a little weird. I think you'd have like some

friends sit you down and there'd be some combos. That would be a betrayal. And don't worry, it's not going to happen. There would be like a chemical imbalance in your brain happening. So I would have lost my mind yeah for sure got it so check in on me if i ever have a boyfriend i do get i think overwhelmed is a good word to use with the labels and stuff because i get how that is helpful and i also get how it's overwhelming and then you were talking to me about this and katy thurston was talking to me about this last night as the queer baiting like you know like there's there's a lot of good representation out there right now and we're talking about in the music industry yeah like what's happening the music industry is so fire right now with that like chapel rome yeah obsessed

yeah choice of on yeah obsessed there's like so many lesbians who have just like are on top of rna rap yeah i that's yeah i would see i would do i would do third thingster fluid i would do i would do i would do i would do i would do yeah so what is what is queer baiting exactly and how do people not do this i think that's a great question i think Queer baiting traditionally from what I know of it is just like someone like kind of like dangling to an audience that there's like a potential storyline you're getting that is queer just and then but it's not real and also I think when people I think people get angry about it when you're like capitalizing off of it in a way of like curating an audience of people who are thinking you are one of them yeah but it's like oh that was none of it was actually real yeah or like if you watch a show and you think that a like there's going to be a storyline where two people get together and I never happens. It's like, okay, you're queer baiting us. Like get us into the show, but then you never gave us like the satisfaction of.

But I just think people are just talking a lot more about sexuality in general. And I think we should be more like, I don't know, open to anyone like expressing that there's a queerness to them. I know. Because what's wrong with that? Like that should be positive then. Right. I agree. But yeah.

I think like marginalized. community so often can turn in on themselves too because they've gone through so much pain. Yeah. So it's like a quick thing to be like, I don't know, don't steal this thing from us that is so precious. But in reality, it's like this thing is so precious that I wish everyone could experience it. Right. Okay, wait. What are some queer or lesbian stereotypes that you fit into and that you don't?

Oh, that's a good question. That's a great question. not being like best-see friends with all my exes. I don't fit into that. I definitely fit into a lot of like style ones, hats, carabiners, converse, those ones. I don't got any flannels. I feel like that's a dying lesbian. You got a waffle knit though.

It's kind of. This is the new flannel. The waffle there is like the new flannel for lesbians and I'm doing it. Falling in love. I like definitely like doing that. You do? I don't you haul though. Like I don't move people into my husband.

house and stuff like people you move fast yeah when I say you haul I mean like not necessarily you hauling into your home but like rapid lightning speed progression I am a serial monogamous which is definitely oh that's sweet yeah I feel like that's also a stereotype that gay people get that they're not yeah gay men especially gay men especially gay women usually oh really oh yeah we are falling in love I think I asked us but how long have you and beck have been together we started dating like this year basically. Oh, nice. Yeah. And then I know you said so it's like there's so much more to your journey than just your coming out story. What has been like your high in La Piquette Valley? What is like a highlight that you can think of of your journey? I feel like for a long time,

like at the beginning of coming out, I was pretending that I was comfortable with myself. And I think that's also just something about being in your early 20s in general, you know? Like I think everyone probably experiences that. But towards my late 20s and now, especially now, I feel like I finally am like, I am so stoked about who I am. And I would like tell anyone in the world, you know, and feel proud. Which people struggle with that in general. Exactly. So, so. Totally. And I think another thing is just like more like gender expression stuff, getting more and more comfortable with what I want to wear and not feeling so much. Like in my early 20s, I was still wearing like dresses to weddings and stuff because I didn't want to offend someone.

This is such a true thing too because I would not dress. Like I'm in track pants right now. Like I would question if I look too gay because I was trying to suppress it as like a girlie. And not even realizing that you were doing it? No, no, I was aware internally, but also just like denying it in my head because I was like you're not gay, but you look gay. You don't want to look like this.

Wow. Because I wasn't out at the time. So like it is a whole like your clothes and just, I don't know, it's a very, very valid thing. Yeah, queerness is like so much more than just who you kiss, you know? Yeah. There's so much more going on there. And also I think a lot of, it's funny because a lot of lesbians or queer women at least will like go kind of far into tomboy stuff.

And then they like regress back. They're like, okay, I didn't need to be wearing all those hats, you know? That's like a, that's a stereotype that I don't fit because I'm like, give me more hats. Like, give me all the hats. But a lot of girls, especially if you're more like you, you'd be like, you can tiptoe into Wait, what would you call me? Because there's like chapsic, tomboy.

Someone called me a power femme the other day and I'd never heard that before. Wait, can I know these? What is a chapstick? A chap, okay, so a lips. What are you? I call myself a chapsic lesbian. I know what a lipstick lesbian is.

Exactly. So a chapstick is what you would assume, right? It's like, it's like in between like lubricating. Like you may be wear like a, like a tinted moisturizer lesbian. Okay. You know? Yeah. think about that level it's me by the way it's just me it's you yeah yeah okay so like shana

wears makeup yeah okay okay okay okay and then what is the other terms there's there's uh power femme i never heard that i never heard that but it's like power femme like alpha i think it's between like tomboy femme and lipstick femme and like very um this is how was described to me i don't actually know um disclaimer like more out their outfits like varying to fashion mm i get that like that But, like, can, because I can dress like a little more tomboy, but I still will do, like, a full face of makeup. Or, like, I'll just really girly, no makeup, like, I don't know. I feel the most beautiful when I'm dressed like a tomboy. Yeah.

I really do. I think most girls look best that way, but that's just my opinion. Also, this is, like, another thing where the label of it all, I think, can start to overwhelm people. 100%. Because you're like, okay, wait, I just figured out that I'm by, or I just figured out I'm a lesbian, and now I have to know what kind of lesbian I am. And then also you feel like you have to stay in a box and you don't. Like one day I want to dress like a tomboy. The other day I want to dress like high heels and a frilly dress.

Like I'm just like just a human being inside too. I still want to kiss girls. Like it's fine. Yeah. Yeah. Becca got in trouble or not in trouble, but she called me mask in like she went on a podcast and she's like I never saw a lesbian like Shannon like she's kind of mask. People are like Shannon is not mask.

She's just like what did they call me? Like a tomboy and a hat or like a femme. Oh, a femme and a hat. I'm like, God, back to the hats. Anyway, I love them. Wait, what's mask? Mask would be like a really masculine. Like very what you, when we were younger, would have seen.

Oh, I see. Like the bitch was like a more common word. I think mask is like taken over as more like common in the queer community. Yeah. But I'm definitely, I'm not mask. But she would, yeah, she's, again, she's like she didn't, she didn't know. Yeah. 100%.

What? Yeah. So like, you said you got to a place where you're. so comfortable with yourself so many people listening right now probably are like how do you do that i i'm working on it so hard and i feel like every year i get closer and closer to being like this is who i am but how how are you doing it how i don't know i mean it probably helps that you get to have conversations all the time about it yeah definitely helps to have like those kind of conversations i also think i think being a lesbian is so cool in so many ways and a huge way

is like de-centering men and when you de-center men in general your thoughts of the world start to change because you're not just seeing yourself in comparison to men all the time or like where do I fit here so when I started to let that go and being like oh my God wait

I don't care anymore if I for a long time I still wanted to be attractive to guys too even though I knew I was a lesbian I'm like I want to because I just want to be attractive in general right? Yeah that's fair I get that. Then I was like, why do I want, I don't want that, actually. I love when, like, any girl thinks I look good.

And when I'm, now I'm in a community of so many queer women. So I get that validation more often anyway, too. So I think, yeah, decentering men was so powerful in finding out who I am and, like, what I actually want. And I think straight women could potentially do that as well. Yeah, yeah. To realize that they are their own person and, like, just femininity in general is so, like, I don't know. Powerful. I think more powerful than masculinity in so many ways. I would have to agree with you. Yeah. I see it more and more. And I think it is because of

people like you that are able to use your platform to have conversations and musicians that are having conversations and more, yeah, representation that people don't. I mean, the world is changing so fast. Yeah. Keep up. So many ways. I know. Which also gives me hope for like if I ever raise a child. because that scares the shit out of me to bring a child into this world but also gives me a little bit of hope with where things could be going

could be going yeah do you and Becca ever podcast together we have not are you going to it goes back to the like oh yeah yeah deciding how much to share

not to share yeah I don't think the answer is no like we always joke about it that we're like we should do it but then I'm like yeah just cautious of and also yeah people just like I think the thing that also is so scary is like I want to be representation but I also don't want people to have unrealistic expectations of me

and my relationships and like ship them yeah too intensely because I've had that experience as well and it's like we are also just real people and we have real problems but I'm not going to be talking about that like that's not going to be in my it's such a big responsibility to have people so invested in you yeah it can feel that way yeah and not wanting to disappoint them but also not and that's why I'm also like okay I can control this movie like I always joke that I think for some people and not all people that follow me but for some people I am like a character to them in a movie that they watch yeah I realize like in the last year especially even I'm like I can control what scenes of this movie they get to see yeah like for example my

ex-girlfriend invited me to her show in L.A., which, and we are, like, friends. Like, we're on good terms, but I'm like, I'm going to go to that show and people are going to take pictures of me and videos of me and they're like, oh, my God, she's at the show. And it just adds a new scene to the movie, you know, even talking about this right now. I'm like, I know that this will, people will be like, oh my God, Shannon didn't go on purpose and Carrie did invite her and all the stuff. Oh, that's so hard. Yeah. Like I said, that's too much of a responsibility for what other people are thinking. Yeah, it can get, it's definitely a thing. But so much positivity that I can't even feel like I can complain about that.

Do you feel like TikTok, like how is that change the landscape for queerness in terms of also like there's a lot more representation? But I feel like it also goes back to being like so toxic because people are so invested in like lesotopia on TikTok. I think it's like I think because of short form video, I think short form like creators in general are way more. It's way easier to make them a character. Because you know a lot less about them. Like, I follow people on TikTok. I don't know where they live. I don't know where you're coming from.

Yeah. I know, but I'll know a really intimate, weird story about something else. But I'm like, I don't know, do you have a mom? Do you have a, do you have, where, do you have siblings? Right. Whereas the YouTuber and the YouTuber, like, age of that kind of creation was so much more, like, and this is my dad. This is what he looks like. This is my mom.

This is my family house. like you could you were like a more actualized person to people yeah and i think people were kinder because of that yeah and now on ticot when you know so little but so quickly you feel also entitled to judge them and think of them like they are not a real person because i think the way people comment on tic ticot who would say that in their right mind to someone's face no one people don't talk like that and it will say a lot of like lesbians on ticot sometimes aren't even together but they're like trying to go viral or get clicks or like so yeah yeah yeah yeah because people want that content so badly that's the other thing that's so tricky because

I'm like I know I could post some stuff with my girlfriend that would go viral yeah like I'm like I know what these people want to see yeah because I want to see it I think it's cute too I'm like I like I like but at what cost right I'm it's a new scene for a movie that I want to direct that's that's on growth I was just going to say that. I was literally just going to say that. Did we just finish each other's? Sandwiches? I was literally just going to say that because that's so, you take something away from each relationship and each situation in life and you're always just getting better.

Hopefully. Yeah, always. And where can people find your podcast? What's the call? Oh, X's and O's. X's and Ours. Right. Welcome to the chat.

But you can follow me on everything. It's at, now this is living. And because you do beautiful photography too. Oh, thank you so much. Shannon's insanely talented. Yeah. Thank you, guys. Like, do people hire you for photography, or is it just something you do as a...

Just Ariana Grande. Ariana Grande? You did her photography? Sometimes, yeah. Cool. Random. Yeah, I don't, yeah, I love photography. I just, I like my pocket.

I have a, I like to do a lot of things. Yeah. But I don't really want photography to be my job because it's kind of like a hobby and a passion. Yeah. And I have already found, yeah, I've already found a way to like monetize so many other passions of mine. that I think some things I should just do for fun. Yeah. That's important.

Yeah, I could have this conversation all day, but thank you for coming on the podcast. Thank you for having me. Is there anything, it's like something that you wanted to share that we didn't talk about that you wish we did? I don't think so. Are you curious about anything else you want to hear? No, do you have any, like, projects coming up or anything you want to talk about? Really just working on my podcast. I'm getting a new studio that I'm setting up in my house.

Cool. And it's going to be. She's getting a porn bed. Okay. What's that? Don't tell, don't tell. Okay, cut it out. No, no, you can leave that.

But just don't tell exactly what it looks like. I'll tell you. That's cool. I've seen sneak peeks. I'll show you. I want to see so sneak feaks. I'll show you. But thank you so much for coming on.

It was a really lovely conversation. It was so nice. Yeah. And it's nice to have you here, Bailey. A little co-peanut. Thank you, Bailey. I feel still bad. Like, I couldn't look at you.

Like, why do I feel like my neck is broken? Yeah, we're going to have to be a bit later. It's okay. It's okay. Because I'm like, I wouldn't follow me. I need like a Britney Spears one. Yeah, you need Britney Spears mic. Hey, guys.

I'm Caitlin Bristow. I'll see you next Tuesday. See your next Tuesday.