Off The Vine with Kaitlyn Bristowe - Tan France | Queer Eye’s Fashion Guru on Finding Love, Overcoming Struggles & the Offer He Almost Turned Down!

Episode Date: February 4, 2025

#812. Tan France is getting raw and real in this episode, opening up like never before. He shares the sweet and unexpected love story of how he met his husband—and why he knew he was in trouble after just one lunch. He also gets candid about life on Queer Eye, revealing how he turned down the show multiple times, the surprising way his offer came to be, and how each of the Fab 5 were “assigned” roles that don’t always match who they really are (his husband swears he's nothing like that Tan France on TV!). Tan also reflects on feeling alienated growing up, the power of representation, and why he once believed he wouldn’t live past 25. It’s a conversation filled with heart, honesty, and a few jaw-dropping moments you won’t want to miss. Hit play now! If you’re LOVING this podcast, please follow and leave a rating and review below! PLUS, FOLLOW OUR PODCAST INSTAGRAM HERE! Thank you to our Sponsors! Check out these deals! Better Help: This episode is brought to you by Better Help! Visit BetterHelp.com/VINE to get 10% off your first month. Boll & Branch: Get 15% off, plus free shipping on your first set of sheets at BollAndBranch.com with promo code VINE15. Spade & Sparrows: Use code OFFTHEVINE to receive 15% off your first order at See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Okay, let's talk about the original enemies to lovers story. Before all of our reality TV couples, before the rom-coms, we binge, there was Elizabeth Bennett and Mr. Darcy in pride and prejudice. And Audible has just dropped a brand new original that will have you completely hooked, I am. It's not just any audiobook. This is a full cast performance. So Marisa Abella, you might know her from industry, brings Elizabeth Bennett to life.

And Harris Dickinson from Baby Girl and Where the Crawdads Sing is Mr. Darcy. And honestly, the chemistry, you guys, it's everything. Plus, you've got icons like Glenn Close, Bill Nye and Will Polter in the mix. Talk about a dream cast. Now, what I love is how Marissa pulls you right into Lizzie's world, her stubbornness, her wit, her messy family dynamics, and of course, her complicated feelings for Darcy. And with a vibrant new adaptation and original score by Grammy-nominated composer, it just feels so fresh and modern while still keeping that timeless Jane Austen charm.

So whether it's your first time experiencing Pride and Prejudice or you've read it a million times, you're going to fall absolutely in love all over again. So go listen to Pride and Prejudice now at audible.ca slash Jane Austen. Off the Vine. Hey, everybody, welcome to Off the Vine. I'm your host, Caitlin Bristow. And today I'm so excited. I have loved this man for a very long time. His name is Tan France, as you all know him from Queer Eye.

And there's so much more to him that I learned today. I cried twice on this podcast. I felt like I wanted to crawl through the screen and hug him. I am so grateful for his openness and vulnerability on this podcast. I absolutely adore him and this conversation. I talk about his whole journey from childhood to now. And he just has so much to say I really, really enjoyed this one. So please welcome Tan.

I love in person, but I am like so grateful that we can do this over Zoom because I love you. That's so nice. Thanks so much. Hi. Yes, you are amazing. I just like, I fell in love with the show. I remember watching the first episode of Queer Eye and I was like, oh my God, I'm obsessed with each and every one of these people and I went and crept you guys all on Instagram and

I saw that Jonathan was following me and I was like, because I guess he watched The Bachelorette and I was like, oh my God. and I've just been like such a fan for years and years and years. So I'm so glad we could make this work. Oh, that sounds. Have you ever interviewed any of the other cast members of mine? Just Jonathan. Yes, and I love Jonathan.

Yeah. He's just such a... He's a lot of energy. He's exactly what you would think. Like, you watch the show and then you never know. I find like, you know, some people have a different, like, persona on TV and then not in real life. And then Jonathan's like, what you see? see is what you get. Do you know, the funny thing is, so we've now been in this for, gosh,

eight years and we've gotten to know like a lot of people. And it's so rare that somebody is as they are on screen. Right? Yeah, so rare. I totally agree. And it's, I think that's like where the saying comes from, like, don't meet your heroes because they're never who you think they're going to be. And it's like so refreshing these days when you actually meet somebody and you're like, you're what I thought you would be. It's so refreshing, but that's so sad. Oh yeah. The delight is when somebody's even better in real life. You're like, oh my gosh, you've never been able to show the real you, but the real you is so much better than what everybody else knows. It's the best. Yes. I find that with reality TV because people get pigeonholed into like these characters

on reality TV and you're casted for like, okay, this person's going to be the dramatic one. So then they only show your dramatic moments or this one's going to be this. And then you kind of get pigeonholed and then on social media maybe you get your own voice to like kind of show who you truly are and I have never had one sometimes I'll interview like the villains from reality TV I've never had one villain come on where I'm like wait you suck I'm always like you're such a good person what is happening sorry I'm going straight in I can't not somebody should have warned you I talk a lot and I go all over me too so I met this girl and I wish I remembered her name but I did this event this girl turned up who was from Love Island the American one but I've never seen it so I didn't

know who she was. But she was the villain of the first or second season that America had. Because you know the show started in the UK. So she was on the American version. She came over and we'd been talking for about 15 minutes. And then the publicist was like, hey, do you know who that is? I was like, I'm sorry, I don't. And they said, oh, she was like the villain villain on her season. Like, how dare you be talking to her? She could not have been sweeter. I know. And so I went open. I was like, listen, I've got to I say, how is it possible that you were the A-hole of the season, you seemed so friendly? And she was like, look, I said some dumb shit, but out of context, it's even dumb as shit.

I was like, oh, that's insane. I always tell people that I easily, easily could have been the villain on my season because of my sense of humor. I'm very much, like, even guys I date, they're like, why are you so mean? I'm like, what? I'm just flirting. Like, that's like my way of flirting. Yeah.

And I'm Canadian, and I feel like I grew up around like a bunch of, like, hockey boys. and like I always had guy friends, and I feel like my banter, that's just like kind of part of who I am. And they could have easily, easily chopped that up and made me look like an asshole because I made so many bad jokes. Luckily, they didn't do that to me because they already had a villain planned. But I'm like, you just never know. That's so, that's like the scary thing about reality TV.

Is queer I considered reality television? No. It's not. This is the way I articulate the difference. So there's reality television, which is like dating shows. the Kardashians, those kind of shows. Then there's unscripted, which is our stuff, which is you are

hired because you do a certain thing, but you don't have a script. And you guys, with reality, you are so heavily produced. Yeah. And as you said, you could have been portrayed as the villain, but with us,

we don't have somebody dictating what, how will be viewed by the audience, it's just, this is who this person is. And they're not saying hey this person said this about you and that person said that about you now go fight there's not as nothing like that and also i know this from a show i was about to say who it was but i'm not going to say it are like one of the biggest real shows in history they are encouraged to like say lines and they will and if they don't say it right they will do a pickup of that line

we have no such thing i bet you're talking about real housewives because they've told me that before too It was not the real house house. Oh, big. Bigger. But, yeah, on hours, we've never, I swear to God, this is true. We've never, I've never done to pick up. We've never done to pick up. Really?

Never. What you say is what you're saying. If they missed it, they missed it. And sometimes it sucks. I wish that the camera was there. And they caught this moment we just had. But they didn't. And we never, we never have a do-over because it's meant to be the most real version of reality

television. Well, that makes me like the show even more then, because I, like, I understand reality television. I understand when they have to do pickups. I understand that they like have plots to make and things to mess with and the editing is so heavy and I get it. But that's, you're right, it's unscripted television that it's kind of like what you see is what we're seeing.

It's more of like a follow doc than reality TV. And that's the best way I can articulate it. Real TV is heavily produced and they can turn you. Look, please don't judge me. I've never seen The Bachelor. I've never seen The Bachelor. Oh, I don't know. Imagine that you know that you are Mother Teresa.

You're an angel going in. But it doesn't matter if you're an angel. If they've decided that you're an A-Hole, you're an A-Hole that season. You are the A-Hole that season. There is no such thing in hours. Ours is basically we're going to follow you. We're going to record everything you do or film everything you do for the next three hours. And then we'll put that down to make it fit into the rest of the episode.

There's no manipulat. I bet there's so many things that you wish we're in there that wouldn't. And I feel like what would be really funny would be like a blooper reel for your show because I feel like there'd be so many funny moments. Okay, for the first time ever, there's a little bit. It's not a blooper real, but at the end of every episode, there's like a little outtake of the show. And often it's just doing something pretty stupid.

The thing I wish we would have on our show, much more on the show, is we do something called a dossier read at the start of every episode. So it's either in the car, mostly it's in the car. Where it's all five of us and one of us is reading a dossier of who our person is our hero is that week. Sometimes it's in our loft, but very rarely. That scene takes us about an hour and a half, two hours to film and you on the show get two minutes maximum. That is, it's my favorite moment of the entire week. That scene that we film, I think for all of us, but I don't want to speak for all of them. That's how, I think that's our favorite. Really? Because it's so inappropriate.

We're not just talking about the hero. We start off by, we put a song on and usually it's something nasty. We can really sing along too and it's gross and it's usually who's put something disgusting on and then that gets in the mood because we start that scene quite early at like 7.308 o'clock. So you've got to get the energy flowing. Yeah, we've really got the energy on. And then we'll start talking about

this is, okay, this person's not going to let me say who it was, but they will tell you themselves. They will tell you the most disgusting sex story of what happened to them in their past. Recently, who cares? And so we'll have just this shocking conversation for half an hour that is just like five of the best girlfriends or gay friends chatting as if no one's listening, no one's watching. And then we're like, okay, should we talk about who our hero is this week? And so we could make a whole show. We could make a whole show of just us in the car.

I swear to God, it's so funny. Wait, you guys should do your own podcast of the five of you. and jogging because then you could do that but I know you're going on you're going on tour aren't you with yeah so we go on tour in I think the first one's February 17th February 19th we're going to five places New York L.A., Philly, Chicago and D.C. Wow, great cities. Really good cities and cities that we either have shot in before or that we've been on tour we've been on a press talk before and have loved and we just know that that's where our audience knows us understands us. really appreciate the show. And so for the first time, you're going to get a version of what we get

in the car. So I want to talk about what the tour's all about because the amount of times I've had a question of, I can do a makeover. No, there's no makeover. And I want to explain why. We spend a full week with our heroes and it's not just about the makeover. Actually, the makeover is the least important component of our show in my opinion. The other might disagree. What I really want to get to is how can we change your life when it comes to your outlook on life by the end of this? And yes, I'm going to use clothes. Jonathan's going to use hair, makeup, whatever. Antigua will use food. Jeremiah will sort out your house in the most spectacular way. Karama will really go in depth on your emotional well-being. And so by the end of it, yeah, you've seen a physical transformation,

but we just use that as a vehicle to get you somewhere bigger and better for the rest of your life. And so to try and do that in an hour and a half, we kind of bastardize the process and we would make it seem like, oh, it's so easy you just do this, this, and then it's done.

I just don't think that it's a good way of promoting what we do on the show. It's so much deeper than that. And so instead, what we're hoping is that the audience will be let into our little world of the pub five. We're hoping that it's going to be so, I'm treating it as almost,

a comedy show. We're so ridiculous together. And it's as if you get a peek into our text thread, which let me tell you, it's nuts. I bet. We're on it a few days a week. Like we're, we are very engaged on this text thread and we have been for years. And now that Jeremiah is a part of our group, it got ridiculous. So we're going to let the audience into who we are. We're going to do a panel conversation. We're going to play some games that I think are so funny. And I think that the audience are going to love, and hopefully it's going to be really interacting with the audience. So we want you to feel, we want everyone to feel like they've been queer-eyed, but not make-over. Yeah, I actually love that because I feel like on the show, we do get to see these

incredible transformations. I feel like that's why I'm crying at the end of every episode is because it is so much bigger than just the makeover. And it's just like beyond what you said, helping people with wardrobe, which is always so much fun to watch those transformations too. But I find that I'm like, but I want to know more about you guys because you all are so entertaining and you all work so well together, but we're really, you know, we're seeing little glimpses of each of your specialties, but to see like the raw footage and just like live of you five hanging out and shooting the shit, I do think that it would be like a stand-up, a different form of stand-up comedy. Yeah. Do you know, the funny thing is, is that we've all, we were assigned roles when we first got the job

Not that we had to play into them, but just this is how we would like you to be perceived. And for me, it was, you're British, so you'll be the classy one. And I read this back and said, hey, I'm from a very working-class community in England. I'm not classy. There's nothing partial, chic about me whatsoever. Trash through and through, and that's okay. That's okay. And I'm proud of that.

I'm the vulgar one. Of all of us on the 5, I'm the most vulgar. I am the drushiest, and I have, I think, the most fun. And they're like, yeah, but you're the Brick. So the Americans will think you're really sophisticated. I'm like, okay. And so I get edited in a way that makes me seem like I'm a fucking princess. I'm like, that's not me.

What's going to see if? All right. That's why we get to have you on podcasts. I know, I know. So I'm really looking forward to the audience seeing, oh, he's gross. Gross. tell me why like your language your body hygiene what's gross the stories that I tell are usually disgusting the amount of times have been asked to not drop the disgusting words I drop I use the C word in almost every sentence I love the C word well look it's really common in England I know it's absolutely disgusting but it's so it's just like the F word like we use it constantly and so my vernacular isn't of refinement lady that ain't me is it hard to like reel it in on the show it is so actually i don't on the show

i don't they just edit all of my yeah because they can take out yeah you do come across very like um proper proper yeah i don't know and i watch it and my husband sit there and watches it and he's like who's that guy we don't know that guy we don't know that guy he doesn't know here he didn't marry he married ten friends i was tan saffdar he married tan saffta he married tan saffta he married he He doesn't know who time Francis. He's never met back anymore. Wait, that's so funny. Well, I feel like that's, I'm sad now that you guys aren't coming to Nashville.

I'm going to have to come to a different city to see you because I want to see the chaos. How long is the show going to be? An hour and right now I think it's an hour and a half. We're trying to get it to an hour and 20. I love any kind of live entertainment, whether it's live podcast, music, comedy shows. Like, I just love, I love when everybody's in a room to, feeling something because you know we're so used to social media and seeing things from our phones so it's almost like such a treat to feel other people's like positive energy in one

room because obviously online what feeds media is negative news like you see so much negativity and bullshit out there because that's what works and that's what sells and that's what gets people engaged in talking and angry but like when you get people in a room laughing or singing i'm like there's something so magical about it. And especially when it's people who are, they have a collective liking or passion for something, I think that it's beautiful where you can bring a bunch of people together who just love this thing that they're here to see.

And therefore, they want, they want to enjoy it. But no one is paying this money to have a shit time. Like, they want to have the best experience. And so they're rooting for the person that is on stage. And it's hard because you don't really see many of these live shows. It typically is a comic, like a musical performer. It's not very often a cast of a show. However, I definitely shouldn't reference this, but I'm going to.

Smartless podcast. Smartless did a tour. And I love those, Jets. I love them. They did the tour. And I think it was one of the first times you got to see a show like that that wasn't a comedy show. It wasn't a musical performer. It was, it wasn't a play.

It was just this podcast brought to life. And where a TV show brought to life on stage. So I think that the audience are in for something really unique. I just can't even imagine the kind of audience you have. I feel like they'd be the best kind of people, like so open-minded, supportive, kind, good sense of humor. I feel like the kind of people that are going to show up to your shows are going to be, like, the energy in there is just going to be absolutely electric and amazing.

And I think you're right. Like I was telling my girlfriend who's just getting into comedy, she's so funny. And she already has a fan base from Instagram. and she was on a show and she's just she's such a good human and and I was like you can just fart into the mic and everyone would think you're amazing like you've already got like you're not out there doing a grind of being like are people going to think I'm funny or not and just show up and see what works see they're rooting for you yeah yeah it's such a good feeling I I had read somewhere that you've spoken out about feeling alienated growing up so I'm like I want to know a little bit

about that and that part of your life into now where you're like, you know, people look up to you and you're in this community and you're helping other people. So what was the hardest part of feeling alienated for you? What was that like? Well, I'm going to start at the end, actually. What is so funny to me is the thought that people who had such disdain for me when I as a kid, I loved the thought of them seeing VR TV. That guy! That guy did it? Like, how is it possible that he made it? And the funny thing is, oh gosh, this was just last night. I googled the first man I ever, the first boy I ever kissed because I wanted to know what you look like now. I haven't

even thought of him. And so this, I was 17, so this was 24 years ago. And I haven't thought about him in decades. And we were watching a show. And my husband was like, do you, So do you still see images online at the guy that you first kissed? I was like, no, I haven't looked him up in so long. And I looked him up and I was like, God, I wonder if he knows that this is me. Like that the guy he kissed is Tan France. Because my name is my name anymore. I got hired and I changed my name to France.

And so I was like, gosh, does he know that that's me? And I look quite different. Anyway, and a gray hair. I didn't look anything like this. Anyway, so I do love the idea that people from my small town now know. because when I was younger, I lived in a small town with very few people of color. From England, I live in the north of England, the place called Yorkshire. And at school, I was one of not even 10 brown kids.

I think there were probably six of us. There was one of it in my entire year. And so when you are in a situation like that in a small town in England, it means, and this isn't a blanket statement, it's just a fact. It means that you will suffer great hardship. it means that you will probably be attacked on your way to school most days or one your way home or you will learn how to run real fast. You learn how to fight real well from a very younger age

because you just know that it's not as simple as I'm going to walk to school today. I'm going to get home to go to work. At some point somebody's going to say something disgusting to you and remind you that you have no right to live in that country. Wow. Even though our people brought that to help build the country. Yeah, yeah. It's what it is because.

Let me take you to school on this actually. Yeah, yeah. And so being in that environment just meant that I wasn't the version of Tan that I am today. I was so quiet. I was so quiet. I was so shy. I would barely speak. I had a few friends, but I was quiet with them. At home, I was the version that you all know. I was loud and I was free and I got to be who I wanted to be. But outside of the house, I was a shadow of who I am. And therefore, I was a very easy target for a lot of people. But also, I don't think I'm tiny. However, when I was a kid, I was tiny, and my castmates all referred to how small I am because of the shortest of all of them. They're all very tall, like, abnormally tall. So I look like I'm vertically challenged.

I'm five-nine. It's an average height in America. Anyway, at school, I was a really short kid, and I was really skinny. And so it was just really easy to hit me and knock me down because I probably wasn't going to fight back, until I started to. And then that's when things really started to change

and I realized I need to get out of this place. I don't want to fight forever. And from a young age, I always knew that England wasn't my home. I love England. I love to visit. And most of the people that are from England are incredible. But the mean few are the ones that really impact your day to day.

Yep. And they're the ones that make you feel something. And so from a really young age, I made it really clear to my family. I will leave this country. This is not my home. They've made it very clear this is not my home. and therefore it's not.

And then little do these people know they actually like lit the fire under you to go do big things because they really do shape you. Okay, I think that's a really fair point because I think the reason why I am so joyful and it's not an act, I am a really jolly person.

Actually, sometimes Anthony will tell you, that may be cravoh, it's annoying, how jolly. Yeah, that's right. In the morning, 18, I'm like, who will to have that? But yeah, I'm so upbeat, and I think I have empathy like not many people do have, because I understand what it feels like to be downtrodden so greatly. And I'm still shocked that I'm alive. Like, the fact that I've made it to 40, I'm like, I got to live.

I got to survive, and I don't have the scars that many others do. What am I going to do with this power? Yeah. Oh, my gosh. So at what age do you feel like you? Well, I guess what age did you move? I moved to, well, I moved out of my hometown when I was 18. Yeah.

To a place called Manchester, which was really good for me. Yeah. Because it was full of gays. It was like the gay caps a lot of me. Oh, love. Oh, love. Well, the second gay capital of me. Yeah.

And so that was a good experience. And then I had my first boyfriend, so it was the first time I could be out and relatively free. Yeah. And then at 20, I started to make my way over to America. So I lived in New York for a short time. And then I visited, I lived in. I live in Salt Lake City. So I visited Salt Lake as my housemate was from New York.

And then I started coming to Salt Lake every three months for a couple of months, until I finally moved here 17 years ago. Wow. Oh, my gosh. Have you ever seen a book of Mormon? Of course. I love that. I'm obsessed.

But every time somebody says Salt Lake City, I want to sing it like the girl. See, I really wish that that was what people thought about when the word Salt Lake City came up. But it's not. It's the housewife. It's like, there's more to Salt Lake, now, than the housewife. So I was actually talking about this earlier with a friend. She had a lot of trauma around the church and what it made her believe and certain things like that. And I said, you know, that kind of trauma, and I talk about trapped trauma a lot in people's bodies and how to release it.

But I'm assuming, you know, having to come out, being in a place where you're getting bullied, not feeling comfortable and feeling alienated. At a young age, I feel like that does get trapped in you. What do you do personally? Because you're out there helping so many people. What do you do to help yourself grow and evolve from that? Do you know, so being a bit, we are a little different. Even though I've been here for so long and I feel like I'm somewhat assimilated. The way Americans process feelings is very different than the rest of the most.

Quite honestly. Yes, absolutely. Do you know, you've heard that term holding space, right? Yeah, yeah. We're not holding space. We don't hold a lot of space. Oh, I love this. Feeling the processing.

Instead, I talk to a nauseating level to my sister and my husband, my closest friends, about everything I'm feeling. So I don't go to therapy, but I'm really open about everything I'm going through with the people that I'm closest to. And that's how I think I've gotten to a point where I feel so free. I don't bottle things up much to my husband's dismay. when we first met for the first couple of years he was like I've never met anybody like you

he hadn't dated anybody in British before he was like sometimes it's okay to not tell me how you're feeling about me and I was like no that would achieve nothing I want you to know that I'm not happy with the way that just went down I want you to know that I'm angry about the situation because I never want us to go to the situation again I want me here that I've done something to piss you off

because I never want to make that mistake again I don't need to go to therapy I just need to tell you and I need you tell me and we'll solve the problem. And so I think the way I've processed everything that went on as a kid is I've just talked about it. I love to talk a subject to

death. Yeah. Oh my gosh, same. I don't feel like I've got unresolved feelings. I don't think there's anything trapped. If anything, the only that's trapped is vengeance, thinking how do I take this out on these things even more? Then I have to call them out. Every interviewer

I do, I'm like, I remember you all, you're bastards. but I don't think it's trapped trauma or it's trapped vengeance. That's so funny. Aren't Brits known for being really brutally honest? Yes, that's a horrible trait of ours. We don't know how to do passive aggressive. So when I work a lot obviously in America and I used to work with businesses in America and it used to drive me crazy that somebody wouldn't just say what they wanted to say.

Like just say it. The only way we're going to move past it is if you just say it, you're not going to offend me. You don't need to say, hey, no disrespect. I don't need any that. Just say, hey, I didn't like the way you did that. And I won't do it. Yeah, it's, it's hard. I'm, so I'm Canadian and I feel like we get the rep of being like so sweet and kind,

but I'm kind of like you. Actually, I did 23 of me and I'm very British, actually, like, very, very British. And so I'm like, I'm the same way where I just want to like say it how it is. I want to call it out. I want to talk through it. And then I want to move on because I feel like that's, you know, our parents generation kept everything in. Everything's great.

And then I feel like our generation is a little more open, but I find that that's how you move through emotions and grow from it is by tackling it head on. But to be clear, not being rude, I would like to believe, I seldom rude. Look, if somebody's rude to me, I can be a hatter and a heartbeat. Like, I'm always ready. However, my resting state is, I'm going to be nice. There's no reason to be an a-hole. It takes so much more energy. And so I will always be nice. But I would, I want to at least say, this is how I'm feeling and this is how I do. need this to move forward, as opposed to, yeah, that's okay, because I know eventually that we're going to bottle that up and it's really going to piss me up and I'm going to say it in a way I don't like. And so I will always say the thing I want to say, but I really try and be kind about it. It makes me think of the online world. Obviously, you have so many people that are obsessed with you guys and support you and will show up for you. But there's also the haters and

the rude trolls. Do you deal with them through kindness? Do you pay attention to it? Do you clap back? What do you do? I haven't clapped back in a year or to. I really wish I was a strong president didn't ever clap back. I would just, I never really said anything that's so nasty, but I have definitely clapped back in a very snarky way. My was a way to go. I don't know why I always called the superstar. I think it's because it's so condescendingly funny. So I love this superstar, you really got me. Yeah. That's funny. Yeah, you're right. I didn't stop for a photo when I was at the hospital with my baby. I didn't. Well done, superstar. You caught me. I'm a terrible father. I didn't leave my child to take a picture

with you. God. Wait, you have two kids, don't you? I do. Oh my gosh. Kay, can I know the story about how you and your husband met? Yeah. I was on vacation here and I had friends that I was staying with and this was 17 years ago. And I would go to the club and my friends would get annoyed that the gay boys that were interested in them suddenly were interested in me just because I was foreign. If you've never felt like any... They're like, wow. Yeah, you hear the accent.

I've got the brown skin. And 17 years ago, there were like two brown people in Utah. It was no such thing as diversity. And so it was really easy to meet a hot dude. But these other boys wanted them. And so they said, look, we're going to put you on this dating site. And if they can't hear stupid accent, they're not going to fall for it. It's like, okay, fine.

That's really mean, but okay. weirdly enough the first person that reached out was a guy who had just come out that day he decided he was going to openly be gay because he was LDS and was quite strict oh his family quite strict so he decided he wanted to date

and I was the first person who reached out too and I thought God he's cute and he was a cowboy he was raised on a ranch I was like dream so hot he was just a dude dude and he asked to take me out for lunch and I was like okay well actually first I said no I said no for a couple of days then finally I was like okay fine because I didn't want a date I wanted to be single and I had gotten out of a terrible relationship or I'd been through a terrible breakup was a fine relationship yeah yeah had my heart broken and it was like I just want time to be single I don't want to be one of those people who could never be single um and then six months saying this guy came along I was a mother because he was great and then at lunch I was sat there thinking oh god I'm

in such trouble. I like this guy a lot. And then a week later, he told me he loved me. I was like, oh, shit, that's soon. And then I moved him with him a month later. And this is your husband? Yes. Aw, that's like, that's like storybook shit. Oh, my God, it was so lovely.

And he's still my favorite person in the world. He makes me laugh every day. I feel really bad for him because he's molested by me every day in this house. But he can't just walk past me without me groping him. I'm like, you know what I signed up for? Like, I was always this. person. And then to parent together must be a whole new level of love. It can test a relationship so greatly. And I know that this is such a cliche, but you should never have a baby with a person

that you don't know is the person because it tests your relationship so greatly. If you're not solid, it will, perhaps will really start to show. And thankfully, you have such a solid foundation. And so raising kids with him, there's no better father I would ever, ever look for than what his parents. Yeah, he's amazing. I'm about to tell you the story I've ever told because the audience well I hear that the audience

isn't like me very much right now but they're going to like me even less for this story. Why? I have a friend who is still a friend we're not as close anymore but we are still friends their first marriage I refused to go to

their first wedding I refused to go to because I'd already told them a couple of times that this person is not a good person and you should not afraid this person This person treats you badly. They are never going to be the person you want to be. I know you want to be, sorry. I know you want to be married.

I get that you're panicking, that you're in your mid-thirties and you just need to move on in life and you want to get married. But it doesn't mean that you've got to settle for a piece of shit. Right. So they came to see me to say, hey, I would like you to be in the wedding, like be part of the wedding. I was like, I love you so much that I'm going to tell you the truth. Wow, good for you.

This is not going to work. I can't be at your wedding because I will not be a horrific I love you and I know that's so hurtful but I swear to God one day you will realize that I'm doing this for your benefit

and I know that sounds so mean and most Americans listening to that will think that's nasty as well but the Brits will get it the Brits will get it and you can say anything about me anything about me but I am a loyal friend

and I will tell you the real real and so at the wedding less than a year later they were divorced because this person realized that their partner was a a whole and cheated on them. I'm like, I knew this was going to happen. I saw it a mile off.

I think one needs to be that person for your friends, and you need friends to tell you the same thing. And did they thank you for it later? They didn't tell me for a year. They moved away, and they didn't tell me for a year, so I had no idea. And then a year or so later, they said, I finally got this trying to tell you.

Wow. We're divorcing. And I was scared to tell you because you would warn me. And I was so embarrassed. I was like, you don't need to be embarrassed with me. I love your oligua. I told you because. I love you. You can tell me and I will, there's no judgment. I just couldn't support something

that I knew was terrible for you. Just the brutal honesty of being like, I cannot support this. I love you and this is hard to hear. Like that kind of straightforwardness turns me all the way on. Yeah, me too. But a lot of people can't handle it. Jonathan Vaness, who I love so much, will often say it's, sometimes it's hard for you time because you just say it. And he's like, you're the most boundary person I've ever met my life. But I also know, because I've heard him say in interview, he's learned so much about boundaries from me. To give you an example, he doesn't

do this thing about this was the first couple of years. We could film a long day and I'm exhausted and he's like, okay, I'm going to pop over to your house, I'm going to put my stuff in my apartment and then I'll pop up to yours. I'm like, do not knock on my door. I'm all day with you. I've got two hours decompressed before bed. Do not knock

on my door. I will not open the door. You can through my door. I will not open my door. That kind of honesty with people who are your friends, and typically friends who have become family, you should be able to say, I'm telling you, I don't have the bandwidth for you tonight. Half out, but I'll see you tomorrow. I agree. I feel like I'm, I feel like I have that circle right now.

I feel like my circle's small. I could totally tell them that. And they would be like, oh, thank God you told me that, like, because I didn't even really want to come over in the first place. Exactly. You know, I just love, I love that. That's what I look for. And people, I feel like the older you get to, the more you look for people that are just

honest with you. and like I can I can tend to be a people pleaser in some capacity but like my true core self is not a people pleaser I so I don't know why I do that I am such a people pleaser but I think a boundary is important I think I think we can have both I think we can be a people pleaser while also having boundaries I feel like I'm very much very much the same okay I want to talk about you making history being the okay first of all tell me your background I'm South Asian Pakistani Um, I'm Muslim, uh, British, queer, that's my background. Wow. And like that's, I mean, I feel like you're the first person that got to be on the show like this with your background. And I feel like that must have been something that like you felt something being on that show and being picked for that show to represent, to, you know, feel a certain way about it. How was that when you first joined the show? It was, um, the reason why I did the show and the reason why I was so scared of the show.

So my family didn't know I was doing the show I shot the show and then told them a few days before the show Which was horrible, quite honestly And I'll come back to that in a second So I had businesses, I retired, mostly retired I had one that I was selling at the time of getting here right And somebody called to say Hey, there's this show that's looking for the fashion guy

And they might want you So just so you know One of my businesses was with a very successful influencer and this business did very well and somebody in Hollywood wanted to do a TV show about this girl and her sisters and they needed somebody that

wasn't white. They were all, there were four white girls in Utah and it was about their incentive family which was all white and they said to her, is there anybody that could be on the show that's not white? Right. And she's like, actually, my business partner he won't be on the show but he will be in the background

because he doesn't want to be on television. But she said But he is brown, Pakistani, Muslim, like he's an immigrant, he's queer. He's everything you could possibly want for diversity in one person. Score. Yeah, great. Even if he's just in the office when you're in the office, great. And so we did all these pictures at these networks. One of them was Bravo.

And the woman who was the development person or the big executive at Bravo, sat there and listened to these girls speak. And then I had chimed in a couple of times because I can't help it because I'm so loud. and she said listen girls you're so lovely but there's nothing here it's there's nothing entertaining enough she was like but you i would put on tv tomorrow no way and i was like oh that's nice i said but i have no interest in television i'm just here to add some literal color to this show i was like i don't want to be on television she was like are you sure we would love to if you would stay we'd love to talk to you about it and i was like absolutely not i'm not interested in television i'm here to support them

She was best friends because the person at Netflix is a worker, Bravo, best friends with the person who was running unscripted at Netflix and said, I just met this guy who is the guy for Queer. Without a doubt, this is your guy. And so Netflix started to reach out or the Bruching Company started to reach out to say, would you please take this call? It's like, absolutely not. I don't want to be on TV. I'm about to retire. I want to have children. And I'm not an entertainer.

I'm a businessman. Just take the call, take the call. And so I refuse to until my husband said, Tan, you've been moaning for years about the fact that you've never seen a South Asian queer person on television ever. But also in Hollywood, there were two South Asians that I can't, other than Mahershala Ali, I can't think of an openly Muslim person in Hollywood.

Right. I can't. But now. And so he was like, you could encourage people to see you as a human, to see your people as you. humans for the first time you could humanize you a terrorist on the news like you get to be the nice guy and i was like that is kind of wild that i could possibly do that and so i was like okay

i'll take the call so i took the call they were like after an hour like you are it like come and do this audition but we feel so strongly that you're the person and i said okay great and so i went to do the audition i got the job and then a few days later i called and said I can't do the job. I'm so sorry. I can absolutely not do the job. I was like the pressure is going to be so overwhelming for me. Because if you've got, if you're the first person to represent a group, a marginalized group, you're going to get so much abuse, so much abuse from everyone. People who aren't like you and people who are like you. And I can't take that. I'm not a strong person. And they were like, look, we will portray you in the most positive light. If you need security,

Netflix was amazing. Like if you need security at your house for a month. We will take care of you. But wouldn't it be amazing to be able to show others like you that they get to live a life openly. And I was like, okay, let's do it. And then I started filming the show and I tried to quit again. I was like, I can't. I can't.

The pressure was just too much. And I still sometimes feel like, gosh, I cry so often. And I'm not a cryer on queer. I cry so often at some of the things I see written about me. And I just, the pressure is so overwhelming. And I still feel that pressure today, and it's been eight years. And I'm sadden to see that at the time I knew I was a token. The first time somebody's hired from a certain community,

they were always going to be the token. And then hopefully that will lead to you becoming one and many. That hasn't happened, and that's really sad. There are two of the salvations in entertainment, I could count probably five who are household names. But other than that, they're on. And so taking that responsibility, every time there's something that a terrorist does, They're like, my team gets called to say, just I want to give a statement.

Why would I give a statement? Are you serious? So often. If there's an attack, I don't know, some Muslim man's done something that a thousand white men have done in America, a crime that a thousand white men have committed. Comments will be, don't you want to say anything? Like, aren't you one of them? No, there are so many Christians who've committed acts of violence, don't you want to say something about them? There are loads of white people who've committed crimes against people in America.

America. I don't see you talking about. I apologize on your people's behalf. Why would I apologize on my people's behalf? That's just a terrorist. That's not one of my people. That's the terrorist. God. That's, did you know America was like that when you moved here? It's not just America. It's everywhere. I get it. Something that happens in England. I get it. I knew, I knew that this was what was going to happen. And so when I say, I'm sad that I didn't tell my family and it went terribly is because when I told my family they're like this is what's going to happen because they are the mirror that I refuse to look in they are the me that I am to white people that they're that for me and they're like you are going to get so much abuse you are going to be the punching bag for

every Pakistani or South Asian every Muslim every queer person every immigrant you are the punching bag I'm like no I'll be fine but they were right I am that person still to this day to this day oh tan that makes me want to cry Do you know what? I was about to lie and say I've developed a thick skin. I haven't developed thick skin. I've just accepted that this is what comes with my job. And my castmates will say, not Jonathan,

because Jonathan is also having to represent the transnational environment beauty. But my other castmates would say, gosh, our experience of queer eye is so different from yours because we just got celebration when the show came out. Yeah. I didn't. I didn't get celebration. To a certain extent I did,

but so much of it was we've, fucking hate you. What? Oh, yeah. Of course, I don't see that because I'm just, I'm like, I can't imagine the show without you. I'm so glad you did it. Thank you for having to go through what you do for that because you are such a big part of that show. I can't, I can't imagine it without you. But I don't see that side of it. And it just like, like, it honestly makes my heart drop into my stomach when I hear you say those things because I like, I don't know why I am still in disbelief when this shit happens, but I am. I just, it makes me sick to my stomach.

We used to get like a thousand DMs a day and like 800 or so were disgusting. So do you, do you try and not even like read them? Yeah. My assistant handles all of that. Even my Instagram. So I will create the content. Like I will post, I will have my videos that I will post, but I do a lot of cooking content because I actually just look to cook.

That's all I want to do. And so I will film that. But then my team deal with all of that. I don't get involved. I don't want to get involved. It's too painful. I mean, yeah, I don't care how thick anyone's skin is. That's painful.

That's, I mean, I could never even put myself in your position to know how painful that is. But I just like, I want to like jump through the screen. I wish I could hug you. Oh, thanks. I do. I just like, you're such a light. You're such a light. And it's just like you radiate that.

And it's just so crazy that there's such hate. just like ignorant losers in this world that it's and I don't know if there I just I just feel like the more we see on social media the more I realize that humans are just being terrible like yes however to counterbalance it and to offer some light to this it's counterbalanced by so much love and support by so many others yeah it's just the you know it's just the mean ones that get through to you like how can you affect you so greatly but you can have a thousand of them that are like yeah we can't believe that you hear we love you so much and it's so nice to see and read but those mean ones are the ones that really stick with you and so I will say that the greatest thing

that came of all of this is that I still get messages from people all over the world in places that don't have the rights that we have in America yeah and they will say we can't believe that somebody that kind of is like us gets to live freely. I did not. This is going to sound so Debbie Downer, but I'm just going to go there. I did not believe for a second when I was younger that I was going to make it past 25.

I thought by the time I hit 25, I'm going to have to commit suicide or I will be killed. Because we don't see queer people in Muslim communities and South Asian communities. There's a reason we don't see them. It's because it's so scary for us. Our communities aren't like Western communities or even black communities

coming out as a black person, Cromo, gosh, he was one of the first who ever do what he did and he was the recipient of so much abuse and so much shit. When you're not from a community that has seen representation for years and years and years,

we had queer people in entertainment. In the 60s, they may not have said, I'm one of the movies, but it was so clear that they were the gays. We've seen that for so long that it's almost normalized to a certain extent in Western culture, but it's not in ours.

And so I can't be angry at them. I just think, you're 50, 60 years behind the West, that I understand why you're so shocked by me. But knowing all that, I just thought, I'm probably not going to be able to live past 25. And so to hear people or to read these messages from people, and when I do speak engagements across the country, and I will often have Muslims or brown people there

who will come up over to me at the end and say, I can't believe that you've made, feel like I get to live like yeah you get to live there's a chance that you can be really happy we we get to be happy just like white people get to be yeah god that just like shatters my soul I just I'm so I love that you have a platform I love that you have a voice I love that you're part of such a cultural phenomenon and now you get to help people and I can I bet you know the haters I always say are so loud, but the quiet people take in what you are doing and standing for and who you are. And they, you are changing people's lives and giving people hope.

And I just like, I mean, I'm just so grateful that you have a platform. Thanks. Thank you so much. I appreciate it. I want to say one last thing about it. And I don't know why it just came to my mind. Every now that you will see comments on line saying, well, we saw him out in public. And he had a hat and a mask on it.

it was so clear he didn't want to talk to anyone he's such a diva and i'm like you have no idea what it is to navigate the world as as me and i'm not just got i've got a hat on a mask on because i think i'm too famous it's i am a very public muslim gamer i am usually hiding hoping that somebody doesn't attack me that day so when somebody i see those comments so often um or i hear them from my assistant saying oh you're at a hotel and you wore a hat and a mask i'm like yeah I have to wear a hat and a mask. It's a bigger risk for me than it is for anybody else. Leave me alone.

Yeah, yep. And then somebody comes over that's nice. Like, hey, Tan, can we take a photo? Unless I'm holding my baby, I've not said no. If I know that you know me and you love me from the show, I will almost every time. Yeah, of course I'll take a photo. But I'm hiding away because it's for my safety. I hate that you have to explain that.

But thank you for explaining it because I just think, like, even if somebody heard that, because sometimes people wouldn't even know that you felt that way. And again, it's about sharing how you feel and how you have to navigate this world and that we all don't have to think that just because, you know, you're famous or you're this doesn't take away what you've gone through in your life and who you are as a person because I think a lot of people think, oh, well, they're rich and famous now and they're fine. And that's so, again, the word ignorant just keeps slapping me in the face while we're having these conversations but thank you thank you for sharing and and honestly like i i was so sad when i

couldn't podcast with you the other day because i was i truly like all five of you i just was i'm like i feel like i want to be the sixth like i want to be friends i want to be in your group chats i'm like i'm moved by everything that you stand for and what you do and just like watching that show i'm like everybody that there's not a lot of feel good shows out there anymore and you make people feel good and I just thank you for that. Thanks, I really appreciate it. Don't worry about last week.

It's so not an issue. But I will say I'm so grateful and lucky regardless of, gosh, I've realized I've just been really quite negative. No, no, you're honest. You're being honest and I'm like, I'm really appreciative of that. But I will say I'm so grateful to be on queer.

It's been the best experience of my life. The fact that I get to do what I get to do, even take away all the influence one might have on other people, even though that's the most important part. It's amazing. The fact that I just get to work with those idiots a few times a year or every year at least for a few months. What a joy.

Absolutely joy. I love them. And I don't know if you've seen the new season, but if you haven't seen the new season, we have a new person on our show called Jeremiah Brent, who is a dream. He's such a perfect fit. I love that.

So you will love him. Oh, I can't wait. I've been meaning to sit down and watch because I know once I hit play on one episode, I'm in for the night. I know, but just quickly to touch on that, I am such a believer in feeling so many different things at once. You are allowed to have your experience. You're allowed to feel the way that you feel and so grateful at the same time.

Like, I'm just, that's like my favorite thought in the world and it has been for the last a while that, like, you always think you have to feel this certain way. So, like, I did a Q&A the other day and somebody said, are you happy? And I'm like, well, it depends on the hour. I feel so many different ranges of emotions through the day that I can't even keep track. That's so funny. Somebody asked me that recently at a Q&A.

I do panel talk. Sorry, I'll do a Q&A across the country regularly. And somebody asked that at my last time. And my answer was basically the same. Most of the time I am, but sometimes I'm not. And that's okay. That's normal. If somebody's happening all the time, that's a little peculiar.

Right. Yeah. Humans are literally meant to feel the full range of emotions. Yeah. So it really, it really depends. And I always say nobody feels their feelings like Caitlin Bristow. I will go through it just every day. But it's conversations like these.

Like you just made my whole day. I love talking to you. I love everything that you've said. And I can't wait to go watch now. Now that I have this connection to you, I'm going to fall in love with the show even more. I hope you. Oh, gosh, I hope you love this season so much. It's my, I'm not just saying this is our new season, I swear to God,

because we went through a massive change this year with this new season. Yeah. It is the best season. Oh, I can't. I can't wait, okay. The audience seems to feel the exact same way. That's the overwhelming message from the season is, God, it's the best yet. Oh, I can't.

You know what? I actually am done my day today at 3.30, and that's what I'm doing with the rest of my night. I am going to binge that show, and then I'm probably going to DM you and show you me Brian. Do you. Please do so. I swear to God, episode one's going to suck you in. It's so solid.

I can't wait. I can't wait. Okay, tell everybody where they can get tickets for your tour, or is it already sold out, probably. Tickets are available at 55.Live.com. Again, we start the tour on February 19th. We'll come into five places. And every, just so you know, every stop's different. Oh, that's fun too.

Yeah. So every stops cater to the city that we're in. Oh, I love it. Oh, my gosh. Well, you are just an absolute delight. Thank you so much for doing this with me. And anytime you're in Nashville or if I see, I'm going to try to come to one of your shows, but if you're ever in Nashville, please let me know.

I will. I didn't realize you were in Nashville. I love Nashville. I'm usually there at least once a year, so I will see you in there. Okay, let me know. And then we can do this in person. I would love. Amazing. I'm Caitlin Bristow. I'll see you next Tuesday. See you next Tuesday. Thank you.