Off The Vine with Kaitlyn Bristowe - Thais Gibson | Why You Love the Way You Love: The 4 Attachment Styles Explained!

Episode Date: February 26, 2026

#923. Why do you love the way that you love… and why do you keep repeating the same patterns?This week, Kaitlyn sits down with attachment theory expert and best-selling author Thais Gibson to break down the 4 attachment styles — secure, anxious, avoidant, and disorganized — and how they shape every relationship in your life.Thais shares her own powerful story of trauma and addiction at just 15 years old, and the moment she discovered that your subconscious mind — not your conscious mind — is driving who you’re attracted to, why you get triggered, and why certain relationships feel impossible to walk away from.They also talk about how attachment styles are formed, how they can change, and the first step to becoming more secure.If you’ve ever wondered “Why am I like this in relationships?” — this episode is for you.If you’re LOVING this podcast, please follow and leave a rating and review below! PLUS, FOLLOW OUR PODCAST INSTAGRAM HERE!Thank you to our Sponsors! Check out these AMAZING deals!Better Help: If you’re ready to take some pressure off this month, therapy is a great place to start. Sign up and get 10% off at BetterHelp.com/VINE.Bombas: Head over to Bombas.com/VINE and use code VINE for 20% off your first purchase.Ka’chava: Stick with your wellness goals. Go to kachava.com and use code VINE for 15% off.Merit Beauty: Right now, Merit Beauty is offering our listeners their Signature Makeup Bag with your first order at MERITbeauty.com.Pura: Pura’s Well-Being Collection is thoughtfully crafted to support energy, focus, relaxation, and sleep through scent. Discover what your space needs at pura.com/moods.EPISODE HIGHLIGHTS: (4:38) — Thais shares her traumatic upbringing and addiction at just 15 years old. (12:21) — The 4 attachment styles explained (and how to identify yours) Secure, anxious, avoidant, and fearful avoidant — and how each one affects your relationships.(32:29) — How to rewire your core wounds and change subconscious patterns.(58:00) — The first step to healing your attachment style.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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That's K-A-C-H-A-V-A-D-com code vine. Merit Beauty. Right now, Merit Beauty is offering our listeners their signature makeup bag with your first order at M-E-R-I-T-Beautcom. And Pura. Pura's well-being collection is thoughtfully crafted to support energy, focus, relaxation, and sleep through scent. Discover what your space needs at Pura.com slash moods. You're listening to Off the Vine with Caitlin Bristow. Hey, Vino's, real quick, if you are listening right now, which obviously you are, you wouldn't be hearing this, can you hit the subscribe or follow button on whatever platform you're on?

Please, that one simple thing helps more than you even realize it allows me to keep growing. on this podcast and making these episodes the best they can possibly be obviously for you. That's the only favorite I'm going to ever ask. Okay. It truly means the world to me. Thank you. Now let's get into it. Hey, everybody. Welcome to Off the Vine with Caleb Bristow. I am stuck in Toronto and I am just doing what I have to do to make it work. Okay. So today's episode is for anyone who keeps asking themselves, why does love feel so hard for me? Even when you're self-aware, doing the work, where does this behavior come from? So my guess, is Taise Gibson and she is a bestselling author, counselor and the founder of the personal

development school. And she specializes in attachment theory and helping people understand why they repeat the same relationship patterns and actually how to change them. We are born with conditioned ways of thinking and there is possibility for us to get out of them and change and heal and grow into the best versions of ourselves. And she talks all about that today. I am so excited for you guys to hear this one because we talk about why we're drawn to certain people, why relationships can feel so triggering what it takes to build something healthier and more secure. And I just feel like everyone's going to feel very validated, but also motivated to be their best selves and kind of learn a little bit more about who you are. So I'm excited for this one. So Taise, welcome to the podcast. I can't wait to

talk to you about everything just because I love these kinds of conversations. I like having people like you who are so knowledgeable on to share your advice and make people feel so seen when they're listening or watching at home. I feel like just from doing my research and watching you on other interviews and looking into what you've done, I'm like, I already feel changed as a human being just from listening and feeling validated. But I have so many questions for you. I thought we would just start off by saying like, your credentials, because that's really awesome, how hard you've worked for what you've achieved. And I think so many people in behavioral health just in the world are not having credentials, but they know how to use

the language. And so they have these platforms and people listen to them. And so, because they think, oh, they've got all these views and they must be right. But I want you to tell us kind of how you got here. So thank you for having me. You're excited to be here. I really dove into this whole space because I think as most people, like I got into this space because I had a whole bunch of my own attachment trauma and just stuff growing up and I was trying to sort of make sense of it. But I was always really interested in where neuroscience and spirituality and psychology all overlap. So I started my path. I went, did my undergrad. in psychology went through a lot of sort of transformative stuff and then ended up going and getting a

PhD in pastoral counseling and then sort of shifting my views ever so slightly as time went on, but really getting into, okay, well, like I've gone through a lot of tremendous healing and really getting into like, okay, well, where? Like, what's going on? Like, I'm learning all these really powerful things on one hand. But I want to be able to communicate and understand in like practical terms and exercises and tools so that I can really share that information with other people. So over time, I went from doing that to then getting 13 different certifications and everything from cognitive behavioral therapy to neurolinguistic programming to hypnosis to internal family systems, somatic experiencing.

Like I just got addicted, honestly, to learning. Like, I was obsessed with just learning about stuff and like, what's going on? Like, how do we sort of translate what's happening in our brains to like how you can really change in everyday life? And then I started running a practice for a few years. Did that for quite a while. I had a two-year wait list. and then was like, oh, I guess I'll package stuff and put it online for people who are waiting

on the wait list. And that's what kind of accidentally grew our YouTube channel and online platforms or everything kind of like unfolds by accident. But I definitely have a heart for teaching and sharing. And yeah, I don't think any of that is by accident. I think you were meant to be doing that and sharing that with the world. And the fact that we can do that online is so special. That's I was doing this because I'm like, yes, so you are overly qualified to be giving this kind of advice. And I think that's, you know, so important to know going into sharing information. I just think there's so much out there, you know, that people say and do just for the views. And so I just wanted to start out by acknowledging your credentials. Thank you. And how hard you've worked. So where did this all

stem from? And I don't mean to be insensitive, but did I think I heard you on Mel Robbins talk about how you had like a pretty traumatic or chaotic upbringing. Is that something that you've been open about with? Oh, yeah. I mean, I'll be honest. Like I, I'm open about my. own stuff. I try to be mindful of my parents because their privacy and just all their stuff. But they just went through a lot. And when I was young, I think I really internalized being in the middle of a lot of that and sort of taking it on and taking it in and was a very sensitive kid and was very in the middle. Like, there was a lot of chaos happening. And I was kind of like the peacekeeper or the stopper of big fights and a lot of stuff that was going on. And so at a young age, I had like one coping mechanism growing up and it was to play soccer.

I was like, oh, I'm going to get a soccer scholarship. I'm going to leave Canada. I'm going to escape home. That was like my big thing. And then what ended up happening is in one of my scouting years, I had knee surgery. And I just like immediately became addicted to painkillers. And so I went from like just before my 16th birthday. I was going to say, weren't you 15 years old when this happened? Yeah, literally. Yeah. And so crazy. And so so I literally went and then just struggled with this like daily, pretty much daily for six and now. years, opioid use. And it, like, really escalated. It was just, like, a really chaotic time. And it was so interesting because, like, looking back, I obviously unpacked a lot of this and went through a lot of it. But looking back, I think a couple things happened. I think I had no idea how to cope. I think that I just, like, would escape home, go play soccer. I would, like, literally go to school, come home, play after school soccer, then leave, go play club soccer, come home, like, eat dinner, go to bed. I was trying to, like, stay away. And then I think that when that was taken away and I was suddenly at home, I was always on edge. I was always, like, waiting for something

bad to happen. And I think that taking painkillers just like took the edge off. And it was like, okay, this just makes life easier. And I remember thinking like, oh, this feels nice. Like this is so much easier. And doctors don't tell you what that addiction looks like. They just give, oh, she had surgery, here are opioids. Nobody is sitting you down and telling you, hey, this could turn into a serious addiction that could ruin your life. And it usually does if people don't have the knowledge. 100%. Especially then, too. Like, I had no idea. And I found that it's so interesting. There's this whole discussion in like the sort of 12-step world, which is the problem isn't the problem. And it's, I think it's so important. It's like, well, people who have a really stable home or

they're not going to necessarily get addicted to painkillers or at least significantly less likely. The problem isn't the painkillers jumping down your throat when you're sleeping. It's like the fact that if you don't know how to cope and you have a world that you're living in that you need to cope from, then of course something like that is going to be something that fills that void. And so for me, it was just like particularly strong in that way. And I started off like being sort of this, you know, good kid with lots of good friends and healthy people and always had like a heart for like helping people and kind of like the downtron in and I really cared a lot about people. And I just turned into like a tornado. Like I just turned into like chaos and always just like getting in trouble and all these things. And I remember telling myself like, okay, what happened? Like what happened to me? And I would write these notes to myself and I would do all these things about like I'm going to delete people's numbers from my phone. I'm going to avoid this girl in the hallway that I would get them from at school. Like, I went through all of these things that I told myself I was going to do and change.

And I would just then repeat the same patterns all the time. Like, I would just go back through the same cycles. And that was one of the most defeating things about addiction. It's just like you tell yourself something a million times and you just go back to the same thing that you said you wouldn't do. Well, and there's so many forms of addiction. It could be as simple as your cell phone to an opioid overusage. You know, like there's so many addictions in life that we repeat patterns with. and it can get scary when it's that serious.

I remember you saying, like, you got yourself out of it. Did you not? Like, because you would show up at school. You were very high functioning. You could still be on these opioids and still show up and nobody would know. And how do you do that? And how did you get off of them? I feel like everybody does that for a while until they, like, can't anymore.

Like, I feel like that's very common for people to be very high functioning for a while until everything kind of falls apart. A scary, fragile age for you to be so addicted to something and feel so, alone and have to get yourself out of that situation. Yeah, 100%. And so what ended up happening is I kind of like, I would say, coped my way through. Like I did okay throughout high school. Like I got a full right soccer scholarship and went to a school in Georgia. But I got there and like my life was just very quickly falling apart. I think I had this idea that I would just like make it away from home and everything would be better. And then instead it was like I made it away from home and everything got 10 times

worse. And because I was left to my own devices more and there was more accessibility to things. And it just like, it just like spiraled even more. And I didn't have to be hiding as much as I did in high school when you're still living under your parents' roof or things like that. So it really took a down return quickly for me. And I would do things. I was trying to get sober. So I would like in summer semesters between like school years. I would go to A.A meetings and A meetings. I tried inpatient rehab. Outpatient rehab things were not. They weren't working for it. But I also wasn't like really ready to do the work either yet. Like I was a kid. And I remember having these experiences. Like I was in an A meeting once and this girl came in and she was like, oh, I'm a hundred day sober. And here,

you know, today was the hardest day I had so far. And I think I was 18 at the time when I was there. And I remember like, oh my God, am I going to struggle every day for the rest of my life? Like, I just had such a strong fear of that and just this overwhelm of like, oh, my God, is my whole life just going to be miserable, which didn't make me want to get sober more. And maybe I want to escape more. But then what did happen and this was always like fundamentally really life changing for me is that I ended up. up getting into a dynamic where I was in a school. I was in a psychology class. This very day, I was literally thinking like, I think I have to leave school. I don't think I can do this. I was like my life was hanging by a thread. I was just having all of this chaos around me that was

largely of my own doing. And somebody said to me, oh, yeah, I was reading this book and your conscious mind can't out well or overpower your subconscious mind. And for me, it was like, wait, what does that mean? And what I learned is that your conscious mind is three to five percent of all of your beliefs, your thoughts, your emotions, your actions, and your subconscious and unconscious collectively is 95 to 97%. And so what that meant to me was so personal because it was like, oh, so consciously I tell myself, I want to get sober, I want to stop using, I want to get clean, I want to change my life. I say that consciously, but subconsciously, this is something that I'm not on board with. And so like, what's that all about? Like, what's going on there? And it kind of

gave me permission to stop thinking of myself as like, oh, I fail at this. I can't. do it. I'm weak. I'm helpless and powerless. Because, you know, when you're in active addiction, it's like this kind of special sort of torture where you're, you tell yourself something and then you can't do it and you go back through these cycles. And so to go through that and then be like, oh, it's not that. It's that something is going on at a subconscious level. I was like, well, what is that? And it started me on like a very transformative journey where I started going into like, okay, let me learn everything I can about the subconscious mind and how it works and neuroplasticity and how our brain changes. And like what I, I was really curious about like what my subconscious

his mind is focused on. Like, why do I want to escape pain so badly with painkillers? And when I actually was able to go in and start identifying those things and changing them and rewiring them, that's what led to me really truly healing. And then at like 22, I was like, oh my gosh, everybody needs to hear this. And I started giving like free workshops to people and just trying to like share it because I couldn't believe that like, oh my God, this had healed me and I changed so profoundly. And that's kind of what then started everything else from there. Yeah, because I'm as woo-woo as it gets, but there's there's woo-woo. And that's, there's science. It's like the proof is in the pudding of what you have researched and looked into

and learned. And now you're sharing with the world, it's literally science that you can, you know, go into and explain why your brain does this? And one of my questions is just like, why do we love the way that we love? Why are we stuck in these patterns? And you, of course, talk about the four attachment styles. And I want to dive all into that just so we can break it down for people for it to be really digestible for them and to understand. And again, like I said earlier, feel see. Could you list them all out for us because then we're about to go through each one? Yes. So the four attachment cells are the secure attachment style, number one, the anxious attachment style,

the dismissive avoidant and the fearful avoidant attachment style. Sometimes you'll hear it referred to as the disorganized attachment style. Is there like such thing as like an ambit attachment style? Like I think I'm all of them combined. Okay, then you might be a fearful avoidant, which is interesting. We'll talk about that. Okay, so we'll get into that one. So when does it all?

start because I think I heard you say that it can start from the age of zero to two. Can you dive more into that? So your attachment is all your subconscious set of rules of love. And the reason I got so into this is because I was like, okay, what are the root, root, root causes? For me first, of like what I was running from. And a lot of it was my conditioning, my beliefs about relationships, about love, about connection and communication. A lot of the things I adopted were kind of dysfunctional, quite honestly. And so it was like, okay, what are the roots? And so what I found is by learning a lot about like cognitive behavioral therapy, but also the subconscious mind and how we get conditioned. Our deepest roots of conditioning are our attachment style. So your attachment style is basically

your subconscious set of rules about love. Every person has an attachment style. And it determines the way that you give and receive love, your needs, your fears and your triggers, your nervous system function, the way you'll communicate and the way you'll behave when you're upset about things. And to your point, we get conditioned with our attachment cell between the ages of zero to two. There's an original. Yeah, literally. So there was an experiment done. The way that they found this is original attachment theory started with John Bolby and Mary Ainsworth out of Cambridge University. And they had something called the strange situation experiment where they had children go into what looked like a doctor's office waiting room and sit there in this doctor's office waiting room with their child and then leave the room so that their child was now alone in this room and have a stranger walk in. And they only left the room for a fairly short period of time like a minute or so. And what they then did is they observed how the child was. responded to the stranger and being alone with the stranger, but more importantly, how the child responded to the parent then returning to the room. What they found is these young infants, what they would do is they would express their attachment style then. So secure kids would end up being like relatively okay,

like clearly a little bit of discomfort that there were a stranger. But when the parent returned, they would be secure with the parent and happy the parent was back and returned to playing and be pretty regulated. But then anxious attachment styles, and we can get into what it all means, but anxious attachment cells, they would get really needy and nice. And we would get really needy and clinging in distress when the parent left. And when the parent returned, they would just cling on for dear life and they wouldn't leave the parent's side. I always feel bad because they must, when you learn these things, you probably feel so much shame of like, what attachment style am I giving my child? But for those who don't know, they're sitting there being like, oh, that's so cute that my,

you know, my kid wants. I, I before knowing these things of attachment styles would have been like, you know, if it was my dog, I'd be like, they only want me. They need me. Like, I would like love that. But now hearing I'm like, hey, we've got to think about what this means. This episode is sponsored by better help. February just absolutely loves to sell us on one version of love, big gestures, perfect relationships, everything wrapped up with a bow. But real life doesn't look like that for most of us, okay? Whether you're in a relationship, newly single, choosing yourself right now, we are all still learning as we go. Therapy has obviously been such a grounding place for me to slow down and check in with what actually feels heavy, maybe what I want more of, what expectations I might

be putting on myself that I don't even know belong to me. It's really actually, actually, help me see that an imperfect love life is normal and workable. Therapy can help identify what's really getting in the way of your relationships or even just your peace of mind and help you clear some of that out. Now, it's not just about having all the answers. It's about giving yourself the tools to move forward with more confidence and a lot less pressure. BetterHelp does make therapy more accessible with licensed therapists, thoughtful matching, millions of users and a 4.9 out of five average session rating. It's a platform people genuinely trust. So if you're ready to to take some pressure off this month, therapy is a great place to start. Sign up and get 10% off at

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So one item purchased equals one donated, and that has them at over 150 million donations so far. That is beautiful. Okay, head over to bombas.com slash vine, use code vine for 20% off your first purchase. That's B-O-M-B-A-S dot com slash vine, codevine at checkout. So that's your anxious. It happens out. On the flip side, there's the dismissive-avoidant. And so dismissible-void and children, and I'll talk about how they form and stuff in more detail.

But just in this experiment, they would really retreat. from their parent when the parent returned and they would express a lot of distance to the stranger. And so the parent would return and like make a bid for connection to their child and their child would look away. Like you don't want a dog. You try to feed your dog something and they don't want to eat it. That's like and they look away. That's literally what the little infant would do with their parent. And then they would try to like create space and distance between themselves and the parent for the entire rest of the time they were in the waiting room. And then we had a fearful avoidant or disorganized attachment style. And this one, they essentially, and we'll talk about how they form, but they

would see the parent leave and they would be really ambivalent, very kind of hot and cold, kind of curious about the stranger, but obviously also uncomfortable, quite disregulated emotionally by the experience of not having the parent there. And then when the parent would return, they would be very ambivalent. So they would like go to word the parent to make a bid for connection, but then as they got closer and the parent made a bid back to them for connection, they would then push the parent away and reject the parent. And then when the parent would pull away again, they would then go towards the parent like, wait, come back. And then when the parent would come close, they'd be like, okay, get away. And it's like they couldn't decide if they wanted closeness or distance. And they

were very hot and cold and ambivalent and back and forth. And so researchers could really early observe children's attachment patterns at all the way like zero to two years old through that experiment. And I can get into how they form. But I think what's really important to note is that everything is conditioning. And so while you can observe a child's attachment cell at this age, it doesn't mean that your attachment cell is fixed. It doesn't mean that you'll have your same attachment cell forever. We adopt our deepest programming at a young age. So like zero to eight years old, we're kind of sponging up our deepest programming because our brain is producing more alpha and theta brainwaves. So we take everything in really deeply. But we can change completely. Somebody could

have a stable childhood, a painful relationship at 15 years old. Their first love is abusive or really unhealthy. And that could completely transform their attachment cell going into the rest of their adult life. Yeah, that was me. Okay. Interesting. Well, I have so many things. Like I feel like I had a very loving childhood, a very loving home. But I can see now what attachments my mom had. I can see what I adopted. I could see what was conditioned. I definitely see all that. And then I was very traumatized in one of my first relationships and everything switched. But that's why I think I have so many because I'm like, I see where I got it as a child. I see where I got it in my first relationship. I see where now I take it from like I always tell myself I'm hyper independent and I'm overly like I can do it on my own.

but this is also like maybe not a healthy way of reprogramming my brain and maybe a traumatic response. I did want to talk about the attachment styles just so people can kind of identify and see, you know, what they resonate with. And then if we could give like an example for like secure attachment. We'll start with that because that's the baseline. What does secure attachment look like in like everyday behavior? Okay. So secure attachment styles, they represent 50% of the population, give or take. I'll be honest.

every time I hear this number, I'm like, no way. But that's what the data shows. But I also personally work with people who are insecurely attached, so maybe I'm biased, but 50% of the population. And it does move lockstep with the divorce rate, which is interesting. Because if secure attachment rate goes up, then divorce rate goes down and vice versa. So, and securely attached people, they report having the longest lasting relationships, but also being the most fulfilled in their long lasting relationship. And what was the percentage? 50%. Okay. So I was thinking about that too. If it's 50%. Like, for example, when I went to do the enneagram test, I think I really wanted to be a three, so I'd answer the questions of what

I wanted to be. Is that kind of what happens here where people want to be a secure attachment? So they kind of answer the questions to be that. Okay. So really, really good question. Yeah, great question. So we have a really in-depth quiz and for sure people. I mean, like, I would get people to do this test before they came into work with me in my practice originally. And like people would be like, I'm secure. and then I would talk to them for like a session and be like they're anxious or like they're for sure dismissive avoidant. Like that you'd really see it. And I think a lot of people can inflate like anxious attachments else, conflate availability with security. Like they're emotionally available. So they think, okay, I must be secure or dismissive avoidance. They think they're very grounded and even killed.

They're like, oh, no drama. That must be secure. And really it's a lot deeper than that. So some of the data is self-reporting. Some of the data is through like really in-depth analyses and different research experiments. So it is interesting. But yeah, for sure, a lot of the Gallup polls and self-reporting, it's going to be completely misconstrued. So that's our secure, securely attached kids. They grew up in households where they get a lot of what we call approach-oriented behaviors. And what this means is the parents are really attuned to the children. And then the child feels like, okay, if I cry or I'm upset, the parent approaches me. They try to sue me. They try to show up for me. So children get conditioned at a really early age, that they can rely on

people, that they can trust that people will be there for them, that they're worthy of love as they are in good moments and in hard moments. And they also get a lot of messaging at a subconscious level that says your emotions are okay to express. Vulnerability is safe to be in. And so they end up as adults being in situations where they take that programming and bring it into their relationships. Now, that is, of course, as long as they grow up in an environment where their later relationships don't change their attachment style. Right? That's assuming that all of the secure conditioning all the way through childhood. But as a as a secure attachment growing up feeling worthy, of love, does that not affect? Well, clearly not, but like you would think that it would create you

to pick a partner that securely loves you back. But that might not be the case because then something can happen and that can change everything. So it's a really, really good question. So to your point, securely attached people, they often end up with other securely attached people. That's a very common theme that you'll see. And the data shows that very clearly. On the flip side, somebody could be securely attached in childhood and then go through a really painful event or maybe they lose a parent when they're 12 years old or they go through some sort of maybe a parent loses one of their parents and they see loss and grief around them. Like these things will shift our attachment style ever so slightly because it exists along a

continuum. So a lot of people, we really honest people who are truly deeply securely attached almost never end up in tumultuous relationships. It's usually people who are mostly securely attached but have some anxious edges or a little bit of wood in some times. And so they have a little bit of little. bit more permeable of boundaries a lot of the time, especially the more anxious-leaning individuals, which means they kind of feel like, oh, this person I'm with in maybe a high school

relationship or a college relationship, oh, they're a little bit unhealthy, but maybe I can fix them. Maybe I can save them. They often have a little bit of this sort of slippery slope that happens because they're not fully, fully secure. And then that person really attaches with them and causes a lot of trials and tribulations to their conditioning because we get conditioned through whatever we're exposed to through repetition and emotion. So let's say somebody's mostly secure, but a little anxious. And then they end up in a relationship where somebody is extremely chaotic, extremely unhealthy. You might leave that relationship for your full avoidant, for example. How would a, like, let's give an example of somebody that is a secure attachment. How would they

handle conflict and uncertainty in a relationship? Yeah, good question. And we'll go into like the other attachments also too. But, but, okay, so securely attached people, they end up when there's a conflict in a relationship, they have good boundaries. Okay. So they're not going to put up with really unhealthy things for a long period of time. They have a lot of grace for people because they empathize. They don't take things as personally. But if somebody is doing something once it's unhealthy, they can be quite forgiving. They won't take it personally. They won't make it mean something about them. They won't be like, oh, you did something unhealthy, then I'm unworthy or I'm not good enough. They're like, oh, you're having a hard time. I can empathize with that. So they'll give grace. They'll have patience.

They will work very much to resolve a conflict. They'll say like, hey, what's going? going on, let's hash this out. They want to fix things and very much approach things and work them through. But if somebody repeats things for a long period of time and somebody's truly securely attached, they're going to be like, no, this is not appropriate. Like you've shown up, you've done these things. It's happened enough times. I'm going to have to keep my boundaries, keep my boundaries very strong and eventually walk away from a relationship where it's not actually meeting my needs or standards. Yes. Okay. That makes sense. And then let's go into anxious attachment. Something I feel like I hear constantly, I think,

I will now judging by the stats, I don't know, but I feel like I hear anxious attachment a lot. So when someone with anxious attachment feels distance, like what story does their brain immediately tell them? Yeah. Okay. So anxious attachments all actually forms from real or perceived abandonment growing up or of course in a later relationship. So let's say, for example, that real abandonment is the obvious. It can be you grew up in a home where there was a fatherless home or you grew up in a home where there was a bad divorce and one parent just never returned. You just didn't see them again. the loss of a parent, like all these really obvious things. Perceived abandonment because we get conditioned through repetition over time, perceived abandonment can be that you have really loving parents, but they

work all the time. So love is there and then it feels like love is taken away. Okay, love is there. Love is taken away. It can also be a really strong juxtaposition between parents sort of archetypes. So for example, you have a really warm, available parent and another parent who's a little more cold and dismissive. And it can feel like, okay, when I'm with this parent, I feel like I have all this love. and that's my set point of what I expect. But then when I'm with this parent, it feels like there's this absence of that. And it feels like it's taken away. And I have to earn my worth or become good enough to get accepted by this parent.

So you'd see these types of dynamics. And obviously, it's going to be arranged. Somebody will be highly anxious if they had a lot more abandonment trauma, but less anxious, but could still be anxiously attached it. They had a lot, you know, of that perceived abandonment over time. Anxiously attached kids because they go through this experience, their mind gets imprinted to fear these major things. These are their biggest triggers and core wounds from an integrated attachment theory perspective.

So this is the body of work we built on top of traditional attachment theory. So their biggest wounds are the fear of abandonment, the fear of being alone, excluded, disliked, rejected, not good enough, unloved, and unsafe. And what our triggers are is I always give people this analogy of the bear in the woods. So if you go into the woods and you see a bear and you run away and you're safe, that's great. but then if you have to go back into the woods the next day, your mind projects out like the bear and the trees move and the wind and you're like, it's the bear. And so we're wired to have our subconscious mind imprinted by painful or threatening experiences. And then we hold on to them

deeply and project them back out onto our world as a way to protect ourselves. So for example, if somebody felt abandoned in childhood as an adult, if somebody's not texting them back enough, they're like, oh, I'm about to be abandoned, right? It's just like a bear in the woods. They're projecting it back out. Or if somebody's not super attentive to them on a date, they're like, oh, I'm not good enough, right? So they project out these things they felt in the past onto the present. And then they cope with these things, but always trying to maintain proximity. So anxious attachment styles are like, okay, I have to not lose you. Let me people please. Let me be somebody who I'm not. Let me say yes, what I mean no. Let me like run myself into the ground, trying to be everything that I think you

could expect from me just as a means to make sure I maintain this connection and avoid all of those abandonment fears that I have. That's so it's every attachment style to me feels like so like I'm like how. How do you get out of that? How do you? Because I know that in situations I've been in when I was not medicated, I would, everything was stronger than me. The emotions were so much stronger than me. I could not pause. I could not think what is my attachment style right now? What do I need to tell myself? how do I get out of this? So like reassurance can help obviously temporarily, but I could never seem to solve the deeper anxiety until I started doing, you know, therapy and all this work. But like, how do you get out of that? And what what do people in that situation need from, I guess, not only

their partner, but themselves? Okay. So we'll go into, we have five pillars. And these five pillars apply to every attachment style. The first one, and I really, really believe in this as being the root cause for things, but the first pillar is to rewire these core wounds. So the fear of abandonment being alone, excluded, dislike, you're not born with those things. They got imprinted because of your childhood experiences. You store them. And you can actually rewire them in the same way. So I'll actually go through an exercise for how to rewire in a second. But first thing is to rewire your core wounds. That's the root cause. The second thing is we have to learn to meet our own needs. We learn to self-source. The more we do that, the better we can keep our standards high. The more regulated we are in

relationships. Number three, regulating our nervous system. So doing nervous system work to get us rooted in parasympathetic nervous system mode throughout the day and throughout the week. So we feel more grounded and anchored and at peace. Number four, being able to communicate our needs. Most people do communication terribly wrong, unfortunately. And there's some really easy shifts people can make to starting to communicate more effectively. And last but not least, learning to rewire their relationship to boundaries. So often we hear about boundaries and intellectual. intellectualized boundaries like, oh, I should just set a boundary, but then we clam up in real time. It's because unless we wire it into the subconscious mind, it won't become our baseline.

So there's this wonderful old quote, and it's by Dr. Gapbermate and he says, trauma are the things that happened that shouldn't have happened. Okay, that's like you had a really critical parent. They made you feel not good enough, for example. But trauma are also the things that didn't happen that should have happened. So this is like in an ideal situation, you would have a parent who was like very present with you. And if you didn't have that, then that's going to create its own form of trauma. that neglect or absence of presence will create its own form of trauma. So these are our first two pillars. It's like rewire the imprints that were left, those core wounds or triggers. And that's

also your relationship baggage, by the way. That's the stuff you bring from relationship to relationship. And the second part is meet your deeply unmet needs because there's this void left behind. And so what that looks like, I'll go into the other pillars after. But if we're going to rewire the core wounds, the first thing we do is we find the core wound and it's opposite. So let's say the core wound is, I am not good enough for somebody anxiously attached or I'm going to be abandoned. Okay, what's the opposite? I will maintain connection or I am good enough. And this is where I don't believe in affirmations. Like a lot of people are like, just do affirmations. That's not going to work. Really? Yeah. And it's because your conscious mind, sorry of you like affirmations.

I have them like everywhere in my house all over my mirror. I give them to myself every day. Watch. Oh no. Give it to me. Great. So here's why. Affirmations only speak to your conscious mind. So your conscious mind understands language. Okay. At the end of the day, your, your subconscious mind is where the core wounds exist. So for example, nobody's waking up and consciously being like, okay, today I'm going to choose all day long to tell myself that I'm not good enough. Nobody's like, oh, let me tell myself that like 30 times. Oh, let me tell myself today that I feel like I'm going to be abandoned by everybody I love. Like nobody's consciously choosing that. So the issue exists at a subconscious level. It's in your habituated programming, your preconceived ideas.

So we have to actually speak to the subconscious mind. And the way you know, and it's very clear that the subconscious mind doesn't speak in language, is if I say, okay, whatever you do, do not think of a pink elephant. And like, you frigging think of a pink elephant. And so your conscious mind hears do not. But your subconscious mind speaks in images and emotions, so it flashes the image. And so if we're going to actually change these wounds, which is one of the most powerful things we can do, we have to actually go into the subconscious level. So for people wanting to reprogram their,

what is it, neuropathways, I think is the right term. Rewire the neuropathways. Yeah. Engage neuroplasticity. Yes. What is something that we can wake up and do immediately? Because I know you said you wake up and you want to be in the alpha state of your brain, which is that correct? Yeah. So there's an exercise that'll take you through. And it allows us to actually rewire these big core wounds or triggers. that we have in relationships. It takes about 21 days to do two to five minutes a day. We can call it belief reprogramming. So what we do is how do we speak to the subconscious mind. Number one, I am not good enough. I am good enough. Core wound and it's opposite. Number two, we need 10 memories of times we did feel good enough or 10 times we did feel connected. So it's something to support the new idea that we're trying to condition in. What if those things are, I won this,

I did this. What if they're achievements and not feelings? Yes, yes. So what we do here and this is actually why is we want to come up with really specific things because the more specific we get every memory we have is a container for emotions and images. So if I say, for example, okay, I was a really good friend last week and I had this hard conversation and I showed up and I still supported my friend through it. That's memory. If you look at any memory you have, let's say you're like, oh, what's your favorite childhood memory? And you're like, oh, I was playing on the playground with my friends. You see the images of the playground in your mind. And we've all seen people when they recall old memories, they laugh or they smile or you tell this old high school story and you

giggle with your friends. So it actually, a memory is a container of emotions and images. The more emotion we evoke will be directly correlated to the more specific the memory is. So for example, if somebody's like, oh, let's say somebody's trying to work on, I am unlovable and they're like, I am lovable and they're like, my mom loves me. My son loves me. My daughter loves me. You're just intellectualizing. But if we're like, I know my daughter loved me, because when I came home from work and I hadn't been home for two days because I had to travel. When I opened the door, she ran to me and I could see the light in her eyes and the excitement that she had. The more specific, we get the more emotion we feel. So that's really the hack to step two

of three. Yeah, that makes sense because I feel like it's same thing for me with, and I don't know how you feel about manifesting, but it's like literally seen and visualizing things. And all the like really deep therapy work I've done has been a lot of visualizations and like picturing things and not just saying things. So that makes sense. Exactly. And when you bring up more emotion, emotion is of the body, right? Emotion is what we feel in our body. Emotions are just a reflection of the mind and the body. And so what happens is when you really anchor into like the emotions, the images, that's actually imprinting your subconscious mind and affecting your nervous system. And so that's the second piece, right? It's like, I'm not good enough. I am good enough. I am good enough. Tone times they felt good enough,

really explicit, really specific emotions. And then step. three is we record this down, like record ourselves saying it out loud, and we listen back to it for 21 days in a suggestible state. Is 21 days, is that, I'm trying to remember, I think that's like the number of days it takes to break a pattern, like scientifically speaking. Yeah, so 21 days is how often it usually takes to ingrain a new behavior, exactly, but also 21 days. A lot of research into neuroplasticity says that it's between 21 to 63 days, 63 days if you're just trying to ingrain something, 21 days, if you were in a suggestible state so we can speed up the process. And what a suggestible state means is what your brain is producing more alpha and theta brainwaves. And so we're very suggestible. Our subconscious mind like sponges up information more deeply in that state. And that's usually in the first hour that we wake up, the last hour that we go to sleep or after doing like a deep meditation or breath work or things like that, that really puts us in a super suggestible state of being. So in that second suggestion of, or maybe it was third, the recording of you saying it. Should we be, wait? waking up and doing that and going to sleep doing that because I feel like when I wake up,

if I turn to my phone and do something else and like immediately start my brain on like, what do I have to do today? I feel like it throws my whole day off where if I actually wake up and I set an intention or I say like sometimes I'll hold my dog's hands and say a prayer out loud or like do some sort of like intention for the day, the whole day has changed. A hundred percent. That's the best time to do it because you're really engaging your subconscious mind. And when you start off on the right foot that way, you stay in alpha brainwave mode, then you hear all the reasons that you're good enough or worthy of love instead of abandonment or whatever it is.

It's the opposite of that wound that you're carrying. And then it allows it to fire and wire. Repetition of emotions and images is what fire and wires new neural pathways at the subconscious level. And because your subconscious mind is running the show, that's what changes everything. So it takes like two to five minutes a day after you've recorded it to listen back, to feel about the images, to visualize. the images to feel it in your body as much as possible. It starts your day off on the right foot. We've actually taken 60,000 people through our programs through this. And people who reported doing it properly, staying very present for that two to five minutes a day for 21 days,

not missing a day. People reported a 99.7% MPS score and removing these wounds from their life. And like, who doesn't want to do that? Of course. Like 100%. And it's easy. You can do it at home. mitzy. And truly, like, as somebody who's done a lot of this work, because I had a lot of this work to do just firsthand before taking so many people through this over the past, like, 14, 15 years, one of the biggest things I noticed is that all of these fears I would constantly project because I was fearful avoidance. So I would, like, have the fear of abandonment, but also the fear of being trapped or having to rely on people. And it was hot and cold and back and forth. All of these, like, the craziest thing that happened is I felt like my mind, all of this chaos in my mind

where it was like this fear and they would have all these negative thoughts and negative internal and then that would cause my nervous system to get dysregulated. And then I would cope by like at the time using drugs to try to numb myself because I got to handle it. All of those things as I started to really rewire these my mind became more still. And it was like my set point became peace. It was like, oh, I could just wake up and I felt good and I felt rooted and grounded and safe. And then I had all this room to focus on like learning or creating or designing my life on my terms. And like it just your whole internal world will shift or doing that work. and it will become so much easier. So that's the first pillar of healing. I feel like a goal I have for myself every year is taking better care of myself.

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Meritbeautcom. I love the ice. idea of like having a practice for 21 days to really shift some sort of mindset and like be a better person. Yeah. And to get rid of all those like attachment fears that came from either past relationships or childhood for some people or whatever it might be. Like it just makes a huge difference. So all these pillars can be applied to each attachment style. Is that what you're saying? Yeah. Okay. So let's let's go to the next one. Let's go to avoid an attachment. So people often label avoidance as like cold, I feel like. But what?

what's actually happening underneath that behavior? Yeah, good question. Because they get a really bad rap and they are tricky. Don't get me wrong. They're definitely, they can be tricky for sure. But they grow up with their overarching theme in their childhood as being childhood emotional neglect. And so what that means for them is that they end up in situations where they go through their childhood and their experiences and they're not getting any presence or attunement that they need.

And sometimes people hear neglect and they think like, oh my gosh, the child's left alone at four years old. at home for hours, like, yeah, it can be these really extreme things, but a lot more frequently, it's these smaller things. It's like the child isn't a dynamic where the parents are structured and they're stable and foods on the table and they're at school on time. But if they express emotions in childhood, the parents are like, I'll get out of here. Like children should be seen and not heard, come back later. Or don't be a cry baby. Get it together. And they were kind of like shooing off the child and shaming them for their emotions. And so what happens is you get this individual who they grew up and they're like, oh, I guess this emotional, vulnerable part of me is wrong

and defective and is always going to get rejected. So if I want to attach to people at all, which we are very much wired for, I need to just not need people, not express emotion, not be vulnerable and just park this part of me really deep down. So then getting close to someone might feel like suffocating to them? Totally. Because they're conditioning around getting close to somebody in childhood was that they were close to somebody that wasn't meaning their needs. So now they had to be what their parents needed from them, but they weren't getting what they deeply yearned for from their parents. So they assume they're barren in the woods. Their deep fears that they've carried is like, okay, I'm going to go into relationships my whole life.

And I'm going to be seen as defective or shameful. I'm going to be trapped, helpless, powerless in a relationship where I want something, but my needs aren't going to be met. They deeply assume their needs are not going to be met in relationships. They fear being weak if they're vulnerable. They fear being seen as disrespectful if they're vulnerable. and they have this deep sense of not really belonging because they can't emotionally engage. And so as adults, they're the types of individuals who are like, okay, let's get close. And they get into a relationship and they start down that path.

But then as soon as things get real and vulnerability is now required, they cut and run or they shut down in the relationship deeply or they keep people in arms length. And their entire attachment strategy is to literally get into relationship with somebody and basically get into relationship and minimize their attachment needs the whole time. So they're like the type of person, will be anxious attachment cells? Like, if we have a conflict, let's fix it right now. Let's solve it. Let's talk it through right now. Or if we're distant, let's text extra. Let's talk more. If a dismissable witness in a conflict, they're like, let me take space. Let me create distance. Let me deal with this later. Let me not deal with it at all, perhaps. And they're also like, let me make sure I don't need anybody at all. And they're the types of individuals that in relationships, they're constantly trying to flaw find and convince themselves

they don't need people because they're assuming they're going to be in a relationship where they can't get their needs met anyways and then it's just going to kind of end painfully. So they're always trying to not really get too close. Does that make them feel safe or is that a belief they're telling themselves that I am safe if? Great question. It makes them feel a greater sense of control, but it kind of reenacts the whole problem. So for example, if they convince themselves they don't need somebody, then they're like, okay, that makes me feel like I'm fine without them. I would be fine if it didn't work and that gives them a sense of kind of perceived control and a little bit of relief, but then they end up usually being a big point of contention in a relationship that causes it

to fail because they're not opening up, because they're not vulnerable because they're not working through conflict, they're not co-regulating. And so then what inevitably happens is relationships fail. And it just seems to repeat the cycle. Look, relationships weren't going to work. I knew it. See? And so then they sort of convince themselves of this story and tell themselves this thing, which causes it to repeat itself because we very much create our reality at a subconscious level. And so people repeat these old patterns that they didn't want to have happen. And then so it gives them temporary relief or control, but long term, it causes a lot more pain and distance.

I really am relating to so many of these, which makes me think like what is wrong with me. But that's no, it's just who I am and what I've been through. And, you know, it's so common for people to be insecurely attached that if you were to see some of these things, I'm convinced by what you've said so far that you're going to end up being the one we're about to get to. And I want to hear. I really want to know after we go through them all. But what you'll end up seeing is that, like, hey, it's because of like relationship trauma

you went through it, whether it's from parents or in past relationships, and it's solvable. Like you can move through it and fix it quite easily. Right. Okay. So let's get into the disorganized, fearful, avoidant attachment. That is a mouthful in itself. I feel like there's a lot happening there. But why, what is it about this attachment style?

Wanting love, pushing it away? I heard you say there's a difference between pushing and pulling away. Tell me more. So this person's conditioning. is chaos. So it can be obviously from childhood, which is for a lot of people. Those would be the obvious things like mom's an alcoholic, dad's an addict. Parents go through a really painful divorce. Kids are in the middle. There's physical abuse, violence in the home. These really severe things, parent has narcissistic personality disorder. In all of these types of situations, a child is exposed to two extremes of the same thing. Love sometimes is really good and love sometimes is really terrifying. And in somebody's adult life, If this were maybe to be you at a smaller level, because you mentioned a really turbulent relationship that was maybe your first love, I think you said. So these things where maybe you get exposed to like some person, one person love bombs you one day. And another day they're tearing you down and really like being extremely rude or mean or cruel and how they speak to you. It would be these types of things in relationships. So what you see is you get conditioned through repetition and emotion over time. It builds these neural networks in your brain that are like, I never know. what I'm going to get. And so if you take a child who grows up in a home, for example, they might be like, okay, let's pretend mom's an alcoholic just to paint the picture.

One day, mom is drinking and she's in a good mood and she's nice. And you're like, oh, love is good. Okay, I want more of this. Another day, mom's drinking and she's cruel and she's angry. And you're like, oh, my God, love is terrifying. Get it away from me. And so what you have, and this is where people often will be like, oh, I feel like I'm both attachments else. I feel like I'm all attached themselves. It's because you have both an anxious and an avoidance side if you're a fearful avoidant. So you end up feeling like scared of abandonment because you're scared of losing those good moments of love or if you're in a relationship as a young adult and that person sometimes love bombs you. It makes you feel special and seen. You don't want to lose that. So you have these abandonment wounds and you get anxious if the person pulls away. But then on the flip side, you also don't trust love at all. And you're scared that like, okay, the more I love somebody and the more I care, the more they're going to inevitably hurt me. So you fear abandonment, but then you also fear being too close. And when somebody comes on too strong, you want to push away and step. back. And so fearful avoidance have the wounds of being ancient or being abandoned, alone,

rejected. But then they have the wounds of being trapped, helpless, powerless, and also become quite hyper-independent and self-reliant. But more than anything, fearful avoidance have these huge wounds around being betrayed, not really trusting love or trusting the future. Like, oh, yeah, like, oh, we can be in love now. But in five years, how could I possibly know that you're going to still love me? Yeah. And so they have this big betrayal wound. But also this sense of unworthiness, fearful wouldn't usually go out of their way to like over-provide or over-achieve as a way of earning their worth and proving themselves. They almost feel like I have to be like a tenant everything in my life just to be worthy of love at all. And so there's a lot of this background pressure they put on

themselves. And then the last thing is they often feel like they have to prove their innocence. Because fearful wood, if you go through an extensive relationship where you're punished a lot for anything, like if you're just with a chaotic person and they're always getting mad at you for like nothing, or if a child grows up in a home where their parent is taking their anger out on them and punishing them for like spilling water and they get yelled at in extreme ways or these types of things. A child feels like, oh, people are always going to tell me I'm bad. And they're always waiting to like prove their innocence and prove that they're good. And so they over explain themselves a lot or try to like fill in the blanks and are worried about being attacked or in trouble all the time for

no reason. And so you have this kind of individual who grows up and whether it's from past relationships or from childhood. They pinball back and forth. They're anxious one day and they're avoidant the next. They want closest, but they're scared of it. And it's like, come get close, come get close. gets closer, like, get back. You're too close. This is too much. And so they sort of oscillate between should I stay or should I go. They're anxious side and their avoidance side. And they struggle to trust other people and themselves in love and in the future. That's so fascinating to me because, so my dad is like the most stable person I've ever met. He's 35 years sober. I didn't ever see him as chaotic or drunk. All I saw him as was consistent, loving, kind, nurturing, all these things.

Mom had a glass of wine, firecracker, so loving, so present, like, wonderful. First relationship I choose. Literally, I was 16 years old and he would disappear. I had no idea cocaine was even a thing. He'd be with strippers doing cocaine. I didn't find this out until like, you know, weeks after. And then I wouldn't see him. I wouldn't have a, like, he wouldn't call.

I would write in my journal, like, I don't know where you are. and then he would come back and he was so smart and successful and, you know, on the football team and really good at this and kind and would always show back up. And then the cycle would repeat itself. And if I ever got like if I cried or if I was like, what are you doing? You know, one time he came back, he had like strippers names on his chest that they wrote and I was like crying and he would just laugh at me. And like all these things have just like tortured me. and I was with them for about three years, and I'm like, why would I choose somebody like that if I had such a loving environment? And then that became a pattern of, okay, then I'm not worthy of this kind of love. So then I would always choose relationships where it felt like chaotic.

And then I just, I feel like I'm out of that pattern now. But for people listening, if they've been through so many different things in life, like they did have this chaotic childhood, but then they found security in a relationship. and then they are now discovering a new part of themselves. Like, is it possible to just jump from different attachment styles as you get older? Yeah, it's always going to be about your conditioning. So sometimes what you can have is like, let's say that person, right? These are like the sort of exceptions.

If you are super securely attached, then it's much less likely that you then end up in a really abusive relationship. But I bet you that he didn't start out like that, right? Like he probably didn't start out showing that side of himself until you actually had bonded to him. And then you probably didn't know directly what was going on a lot of the time until probably quite a while in. And that's where like there can be that sort of sneaky part of people in really unhealthy romantic relationships, right? Is that you're like, okay, they present this beautiful side of themselves. Now you love them and attach to them. And now you have to deal

with the grief of losing that person. And if you're not even sure exactly what they're up to and what they're doing, we often stay. And then over time, that person reconditions your subconscious mind. And that's your new step point of attachment style going forward. Does that make sense? Yeah, and it was so hard because my family loved him and I don't know if they knew that side of it. And then that's all I knew. That was like my first serious relationship to them that that was all I knew. But it's still, it's crazy that I still to this day have dreams. And no matter like I've had a few relationships since then, who I'm with in the present moment, my dreams will be his face, but it's them. And they're laughing at me when I'm crying and they're doing. And I am like a tortured little kid in my dreams at all times because that relationship. still sticks in my brain. So crazy. And honestly, when that happens, so a lot of dreams have to do with your subconscious mind. When that happens, can I ask you a question? So when you dream that and you wake up from the dream and that's what comes up for you, what emotions do you feel? Do you feel helpless? Do you feel terrified? I feel shame. I feel embarrassed and shame like that I'm like this loser who can't

control their emotions and people are laughing at me. Wow. Okay, so shame is the emotion. And when you feel that shame, what do you make it mean about you? That I'm not worthy. That I'm, yeah, that I, I'm too much and not worthy. Okay. And if I were to say, okay, is there a part of your life right now where there's still a little bit of that unworthiness? Yes. Yes. Oh my gosh. It shows up in podcasting. It's like what I love to do. It's something that I take a lot of pride in. And I don't think some people know how much like work goes into a podcast and that's okay. Like I try. to take constructive criticism in my life and I totally hear like I've gotten so much better at taking constructive criticism but what happens is is somebody criticizes especially if it's something I feel like

I'm good at and love to do I start feeling like oh my God I'm worthless I'm delusional I don't know what I'm doing I suck at this job and blah blah blah and then what happens is other people will agree and then it feels like a doggy pile and then I immediately crash out and go I'm worthless I can't even do my one job that I have. I've failed at my other things in life. I just go spiral downhill. Yeah. And so the reason is that a trigger, when we have a trigger, it's because we first have a subconscious imprint. Your subconscious mind stores everything. It's like a warehouse of information. So when you're triggered, you are not just experiencing the emotion of the moment. It's not just about some criticism that you got online or whatever it might be. It is the moment combined with every other

time consolidated at a subconscious level that you ever were made to feel unworthy by anybody, probably starting with that really crazy guy in the relationship. And so now it's like your conscious mind is like, oh, what is this criticism on the internet? Which is like everybody gets criticized on the internet. And it goes to your subconscious mind and opens the filing cabinet and it all floods forward. And now you have all of this emotion that you're feeling. And so that's why. And it's really interesting. Our dreams communicate to us. People would always ask me about like, oh, my dreams, my dreams. And there's like these 40, in dream books and it's like, oh, what car means this or your teeth falling out means that.

I think that's all like kind of wishy-washy. What I've seen consistently is your dreams will communicate what core wounds you still have, which is, you said, unworthy. And it's bringing it up for that reason. And that's going to be a really important thing for you to heal on doing that rewiring work, because when you get that out of your subconscious mind and rewire those neural pathways, now that's going to change for everything you do going forward. Wellness doesn't have to be perfect, just personal, and how your space makes you feel.

Purea's well-being collection is thoughtfully crafted to support energy, focus, relaxation, and sleep through scent. From soft florals to grounding woods, each fragrance is designed to create small feel-good moments throughout your day. Discover what your space needs at pura.com slash moods. What is the first step towards healing without overwhelming somebody, do you think? Yeah, so the first one is doing your core wound work. Because it's two to five minutes a day and people get really good results. And when they do one or two wounds at a time, they'll be like, oh my gosh, like this changes absolutely. everything and I find it to be really simple and like extremely transformative. So that's the first step. We have

five major pillars. I will just say one last thing though. I'm so sorry. When we have this dynamic, I just, I have to say it. People take personally what they believe about themselves. So if somebody says to you online, oh, you're a purple monster and they tell you you're a purple monster a thousand times, you're like, whatever. Like you don't care. You don't go home thinking like, well, maybe I am a purple monster because you don't believe it. Anything that hurts when it criticizes us, it's because it touches our deepest fears and wounds within our subconscious mind. And that's what we can rewire. So I just want to say that if it's helpful or supportive. But yeah. So first thing, rewire your core wounds. Number one. Number two is to meet our deeply on met needs. So I get people to make a list of

what were their deepest unmet needs from mom, from dad, and from the X or X's that they may still be stuck on. Okay. Deepest things you were like, if only this person did this. So it might be, oh, if only this person made me feel safe or they were consistent or they were reliable or whatever it is, I get them to write it down. And then our job is to actually become that person to ourselves. And it's profoundly healing at the subconscious level. Because when we have things that we're yearning for and can't get, we all try to put too much resourcing on our external relationships when we don't know how to self-source. So if somebody's like, oh, I really want to feel validated in all my relationships and they don't know how to validate themselves, they're going to be like, oh, you should

always do it for me. And that's too much pressure for people sometimes. And it becomes imbalanced. So we have to actually be like, okay, 21 days, I'm going to practice meeting this need in relationship to self. And part of what we have in our programs is these needs lists of what your needs are, so you can source them. And then we actually go through 21 days of meeting them. So if it's validation, write a three of your wins every day for 21 days and start noticing and acknowledging that. Or if it's somebody being present with you, practice meditating. So you're in your body for 21 days. And that's that major second pillar. Okay. And like for people listening, I'm sure at this point they recognize what they are, what their patterns are, what they didn't get as a child, what they didn't get in relationships,

who they are. What is the biggest thing that they can do for themselves? Like that, I know you have a book coming out, learning love. Is this something that can help people with all their attachment themselves? Okay, tell me about it. Yeah, so we have that book. And we also have our whole online school, which is all of our online programs and in there with all of our students, like three days a week. But they can go through and they get first an attachment cell report that's really in depth. That takes them through these five pillars, their core wounds, their needs, their nerves, their nervous system, their boundaries and their communication. And those are the five pillars of healing. We help rewire each of those things at the subconscious level in 90 days. So the goals within

90 days, you become securely attached. We take people through a program. They find their attachments all. They can track their progress. They can come through to the other side and all of the work that we do in those five pillars learning to communicate better. Learn just that healthy boundaries, regulate your nervous system, your needs, your core wounds. It's all at the subconscious level of mind. Because if we only do conscious work, we just understand. and then we label ourselves as the attachment style, and then we intellectualize it, and then we keep repeating the same patterns, and we're like, oh, it's because I just am this attachment cell. No, like the goal should be you understand it, and then you heal it, and that's

the whole entire point. That is my biggest takeaway is that, like, the conscious and subconscious way of speaking to yourself, like, and the affirmations, I'm like, oh, my gosh, that's so good to know because I am always open to like whatever healing looks like a deeper level of healing. So you telling me that, I'm like, okay, thank you. That's my next goal. is working on that even deeper level of healing and doing that work. So I'm like, I just can't wait. I can't wait for people to listen to this episode and to get your book and do any program. Because I feel like so many people these days are just so curious about who they are and without feeling shame. And, you know, we all like to blame our parents for things. But the truth is they

were all doing their best and they were dealing with their traumas and what they were taught and their core wounds and all of those things. We didn't know. Like back when you were 15, and got addicted to opioids and had all this, you didn't know the word probably of anxious attachment. You know, we didn't know these things. So it's so cool now to be able to talk to somebody like you, hear these things, feel validated, and also have the resources to heal a little deeper. So thank you so much. Thank you so much. And thank you for having me. And for sharing all this. It was so fun to chat and really appreciate being here. Last but not least, where can everybody find you online?

Yeah, so you can invite me at Personal DevelopmentSchool.com. We have an in-depth attachment quiz and report and all of our 90-day secure attachment programs are there. I'm also in YouTube, which is Taise Gibson-Dash Personal Development School, and on Instagram, which is at the Personal Development School. And Taice is spelled T-H-A-I-S. Yes. Okay, perfect. Amazing.

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Hi, I'm Lauren, and I'm Chandler. And we're the host of Pop Apologist Podcast, a weekly podcast devoted to celebrity gossip, Hollywood deep dives, real housewives drama, and anything and everything, Taylor Swift. We're two sisters who make no apologies for our love of pop culture and the fact that A-listers might be more to us than each other. Join us on your favorite podcast app every Wednesday for Pop Apologists. Pop Apologists, your new favorite sister and celeb podcast.