Office Ladies - An Interview with Bob Odenkirk

Episode Date: July 10, 2024

This week the ladies interview Bob Odenkirk! Bob is well known for acting in Better Call Saul, Breaking Bad and Mr. Show, along with writing great comedy sketches like “Motivational Speaker”. Bob also auditioned for the role of Michael Scott and later played Mark Franks in “The Office” episode “Moving On”. The ladies ask Bob about his Michael Scott audition experience and what it was like to play Mark Franks on the show including his guitar song to Pam. They also talk about acting, writing, and performing live sketch comedy. This episode is a treat, enjoy!  Watch Chris Farley’s “Motivational Speaker” sketch written by Bob Odenkirk: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xv2VIEY9-A8 Check out Bob’s Books:Comedy Comedy Comedy Drama: A Memoir Zilot & Other Important Rhymes  Check out Office Ladies Merch at Podswag: https://www.podswag.com/collections/office-ladies Office Ladies Website - Submit a fan question: https://officeladies.com/submitaquestionFollow Us on Instagram: OfficeLadiesPod

I'm Jenna Fisher. And I'm Angela Kinsey. We were on The Office together. And we're best friends. And now we're doing the ultimate office rewatch podcast just for you. Each week we will break down an episode of The Office and give exclusive behind the scenes stories that only two people who were there can tell you. We're The Office ladies.

Hello. Hey lady. I'm excited today. I am so excited. We're the office ladies. Hello. Hey, lady. I'm excited today. I am so excited. We get to share our interview with a very special guest. Bob Odenkirk. Yes. He comes in the studio with us.

For a very long chat. I know. Well, you know, Bob is probably best known for playing lawyer Saul Goodman on Breaking Bad and Better Call Saul. And in the world of the office, he's been a very special guest. He's been a very special guest. He's been a very special guest. He's been a very special guest.

He's been a very special guest. He's been a very special guest. He's been a very special guest. He's been a very special guest. He's been a very special guest. He's been a very special guest. He's been a very special guest. He's been a very special guest. He's been a very special guest. He's been a very special guest. He's been a very special guest. He's been a very long chat. I know. Well, you know, Bob is probably best known for playing lawyer Saul Goodman on Breaking Bad

and Better Call Saul. And in the world of The Office, he plays Mark Franks, the manager of a Philadelphia real estate company that Pam has an interview with during season nine, Moving On. We just broke down, Moving On, part one and part two. So we're very excited to talk to Bob about his guest star on the show. Bob Odenkirk is a writer,

he is a director, he is an actor. His career, it is extensive, very impressive. At the end of our interview, and Bob said something that I loved it. He said, I love talking about showbiz. He does. He's a real true fan of the medium, of television, of film, of sketch comedy, and it really comes through.

Well, I think it really comes through in this interview. He definitely talks about his time in the office, but mostly we talk about his career. We talk about writing on Saturday Night Live, working with Second City, Mr. Show, the Ben Stiller Show, and then also his transition from comedy into drama. One of the things that we talked about that I was trying so hard not to geek out on,

but he wrote the Saturday Night Live sketch, the motivational speaker for Chris Farley. Yes. I mean, that is like an epic sketch. It's the man that lives in the van down by the river. Gosh. If you haven't seen it, maybe before this interview, take a moment and go watch that sketch.

It's so great. Bob tells us the background story of how that sketch came to be. I'm going to link to it all in our stories. And we'll also put a link in our show notes. So if you want to pause for a second and watch it, it's right down there in the show notes. You know, I've known Bob a very long time. His wife Naomi is my manager. She's my only manager that I've ever had.

So I have socialized with Bob and Naomi. We've gone to dinner. But I've never asked him about his career. Not at dinner. That'd be weird. No, no. But this was really fun for me because I got to hear the stories I've always wanted to hear, but I was too shy to ask basically. Right.

I started watching Bob on Mr. Show ages ago. And as someone that loves improv and sketch comedy, he's a legend. Yeah. Jenna, you know this, I was trying very hard not to be a total dork in front of him. I don't think I succeeded. But it was just so amazing to get to hear

all of the stories of his early days in show business and the lessons he's learned along the way. Well, why don't we take a break? And then when we come back, our interview with Bob Odenkirk. Yeah. business and the lessons he's learned along the way. Well, why don't we take a break? And then when we come back, our interview with Bob Odenkirk. Yeah! Bob Odenkirk! Hi!

Welcome to Office Ladies! Thank you, it's good to be here. Great always to see you and you. We're older friends. Yes, you guys. You've known each other a long time. A very long time. Yeah.

Bob, this was our first time acting together, was on The Office. Oh, yeah. But you had directed me in two projects, Melvin Goes to Dinner and Brother Solomon. I love it. Thank you for being a part of those. Oh my gosh. That Brother Solomon script is, to this day, one of the best scripts I've ever read. It was written by Will Forte. Yeah.

It's Will Forte, Will Arnett, Kristen Wiig. Yeah. Malin Ackerman. Yes. So good. Yeah. Sean McBride, please. It's a great script. I wish I'd made a better film out of it. What are you talking about? Are you crazy? It's so funny. I have an idea that I wished that I had done.

What? This is a big regret. What? We were not expecting to talk about this today. Let's kick it off with regrets. Okay. So it was such a funny script. Yes. Matt Berenson was one of the producers

and he had given it to me. And I wasn't quite sure what to do with it, but I loved Will Forte and I love Will Arnett. And I could picture it as being a really fun and sweet movie, which I needed. Sometimes you need that in your life. A lot of things that you make, and especially me, kind of have a harshness or an edge to them, you know? That's just common. I think in things, we like to watch things that are harsh because they hopefully aren't

like your real life and you get to voyeuristically. Also, we like to see people under pressure. Yes. And pressured situations are often presented in movies and TV, right? Because you want to watch how people behave, you know, and you don't want to experience it yourself. You want to watch someone else. I find those movies relax me. Jenna. Oh, yeah.

Yes. Uncut gems. My horror films. Oh, I love Uncut Gems. Right, uncut gems is great for me. Oh, I love uncut gems. Right? Some people can't watch that. It's too much. But there's a lot of things I can't watch. Prince and the Popper I can't watch. I don't know that.

It's an old Mark Twain story made into a film in like the 40s or 50s. But anything where the thing could be solved if somebody would just be honest in a simple way drives me f***ing crazy. Yes! I'm like, just tell her! Just say, I'm the prince!

Yes, I changed clothes! It's obvious! Well, do you know, if the problem can be solved by simply being honest, you know, it really is, it really is, it drives me nuts. Some part of me inside is dying every second. That is so you, Jenna. It's so me, but uncut gems cannot be solved.

No, it cannot. No, and that guy's an addict and he's going off the rails and we're gonna watch him go off the rails. It is so great, I love it. She also, I don't know. Well, she thinks every day the like zombie apocalypse might happen. So that's how she operates. She's got, you've got your bag ready. You're like good to go survivalist. Bag, Angela, three bags. Okay, three bags. And so she likes, I think movies that are really stressful because then she's like,

I got this. Do you watch horror films? Yes, I'm a huge horror film lover. I hate them. I can't like a horror film. I can't watch them. No, really? No, I don't want to you have two choices You can let yourself be sucked into the invented reality and get scared Yeah, which most people do me or you can sort of mentally make an effort to remove yourself and say, I am in a theater right now, this is not real. And then you're not getting the experience, why are you there if all you're going to do is remove yourself from it? Because you don't want to get all scared. And so I don't see the value of either of those. I don't want to be scared So I don't see the value of either of those. I don't want to be scared and I don't want to sit somewhere and go, this isn't real,

this isn't real, this isn't real. It's a very practical way. What is, there's no in between. So I don't get it. I don't get it. I am in a strange way a very earnest person for a person in comedy, you know? I am oddly earnest. And I think it's one of the things that makes me a little, it's one of the reasons I think Steve Carell is a better,

you know, is the one who got the role. It was me and Steve. I know. Yeah. That's right. But I really think when it comes to this, and there were other parts that I think I was up for, that Steve got. And it's because he's better at being genuinely fun.

Uh-huh. Genuinely fun. And I think I bring with me a little bit too much earnest seriousness. And it's just kind of there. And there's nothing I can do about it, except play other roles where it's helpful to have that. And, you know, you just don't believe me as a purely light character.

You don't. You just are looking for the darkness. And that's actually great in drama. Yeah. And that's a plus, you know, but in comedy, it's not a plus. I remember being on stage, I've told this story before, and it's a very minor story. But I really think that at the core of it is this thing I'm talking about, which is I was on stage with Jill Talley and Chris Farley at Second City. And we were improvising and I look at the audience, they're right here and they're laughing. And I'm thinking, if I was sitting there,

I would be watching Chris Farley or Jill Talley. And the last person I'd be watching is Bob Odenkirk. And this is all during a scene. But you know, when you do a show seven times a week at Second City, your brain can really, like you can obviously do your scripted stuff and be thinking about groceries and anything. Yeah. Yeah. And you can even improvise and have your brain go, what is tomorrow morning? I got to get up early tomorrow morning.

And I thought, boy, but if this was a drama, I think maybe I'd hold my own up here. Because there's a quality of comedy performers of many of them. This is, there's no across the board, hard and fast rules and this kind of theorizing, but where you can like relax if you know who they are, like right away

off their face, their smile, their energy. And anything that's murky is like, makes it harder to enjoy the light humor that's happening. is like makes it harder to enjoy the light humor that's happening. And I think that's where I really struggle and I've done plenty of sketch comedy and stuff, but I think I've never been the outstanding performer until I was able to do drama.

Then I was able to really kind of be 100% there and helpful in comedy. You know, I'm not bringing that light energy. I mean, I always point to Will Ferrell as like, he is the epitome to me of like, I'm smiling when he walks. Yes. Yes. He's on screen, and mate, you gotta smile. He can be doing the craziest, dumbest thing, but- Or like just the most. Yeah, you're smiling. Yeah, that's right He's just walked into the shoe store and picked up a pair of shoes and yes Wondering if he's gonna buy them and you're like on the floor, right? Yeah. Why is that? It's just

Except is it a little because am I not effing it right now? Am I not pointing to it right now? It is a mirthful aura. Yeah. Well, Bob, you mentioned that you auditioned for Michael Scott, right? Yes, I did. And I know I've told this story before on the podcast, but Bob, you and I prepared for our test audition together

because your wife, Naomi Odenkirk, is my manager. And when I was asked to test for the role of Pam, she said, oh, Bob is testing for the role of Michael Scott. You two should get together. And I didn't have a lot of improv experience, so it was just so great to get to prepare with you in that way. And I remember that test. And it really came down to you and Steve Carell.

You know, I mean, I think the office was exactly what it needed to be. What you guys did and Steve did was exactly what it needed to be and it was great. So it's interesting. I mean, I, you know, I think I, I've been in the business even at that point. I've been in the business even at that point. I've been in it so long. I don't, I didn't audition for much in my career. When I was younger, I did auditions because they called me and said, you've got an audition. And I said, oh, I guess I go do it.

But there came a point where I probably wasn't getting them even though I was getting roles, and I just never asked for them. I never called my agent and said, where are my auditions? I was just writing. I just woke up and wrote. I was thankful to audition. I had a great time auditioning, and I love Greg Daniels.

We knew each other for a long time, and I love The Daniels. I mean, we knew each other for a long time and I love the office, the BBC version I love very much. So I, oh, a big part of it for me was curb. And of course in curb, you're improvising off, um, you know, an outline less than you guys had a great deal less, I would say, but you guys still had room to improvise, right? So I knew, oh, there's gonna be, this is like Curb, and I had had such a good time on Curb.

It was, doing that show, I was like, oh my God, this is the best thing you can get in show business. If you can get this to happen, a show with an ensemble of people that you like and that are funny and that you get room to just invent and just goof around. This is the best.

So I was excited to do the auditions for The Office because I knew it had that dimension. And look, when I did the Ben Stiller show, I walked away from that going, I gotta create a show again with my friends. Because waking up in the morning and picking up Andy Dick and picking up Jenny Garofalo and driving out to wherever the hell we had some cheap ass set

or were stealing locations and goofing around all day long and laughing is the greatest, you know? So when that show ended, I was like, I have to recreate that. And so when I finished Curb, I was like, I have to recreate that, but I still haven't. Are you still working on it? Not really.

This weird thing happened where I got into a drama and it's a lot of work and you don't improvise at all. And then I got into action movies, which again, you don't, you know, it's, you can, you know, obviously like any movie, but even maybe more, maybe it's more malleable than a lot of films, you know, you can work with the moments and invent. And that is especially true of the fight sequences, which is interesting. Yes. Wait, they're not just like, they are choreographed. They're absolutely choreographed and rehearsed. And that is especially true of the fight sequences. Really? Which is interesting. Yes.

Wait, they're not just like... They are choreographed. They're absolutely choreographed and rehearsed. But when you get on set and it's time to do it, and you see a shot you didn't have, you see a move that you didn't think of, the set isn't quite built the way the layout was, and something goes wrong or looks better. And you go, no, no, no, no, no, don't hit me. I'll hit him.

He, you fall over and I'll punch you in the face. And then everybody goes, ah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And then you do that thing and then you look at it on camera and you go, Oh, that was awesome. That looks so real. and you go, oh, that was awesome. That looks so real. I was very surprised to discover that aspect of doing that, of the inventiveness and teamwork that those sequences,

I think, always take, but I mean, every movie's different, but I'm gonna keep those in my repertoire, I hope, if I make more action movies, which it looks like I might. But- Well, shocker, we have never done an action movie, Jenna and I. Does that surprise you? Does that surprise you? That we are not.

Well, doesn't it surprise you that I did? I mean, in a way, I remember when Naomi told me that you were going to do your first action film, and I was like, really? Really? Jenna, we shouldn't count ourselves out. Maybe we should out there for us. Absolutely. Mom Detectives. Action. Maybe we should out there for us. Absolutely.

Mom detectives. Action. That's our spinoff show. Detectives. Yeah, mom detectives. Detectives don't punch anything. We do. Mom detectives do.

Solving crimes no one cares about. That's our log line. I did an improv pilot right before I got the office. Oh, wow. It was called Salon Royale. It was me and Ian Roberts and Betty Cahill and Dave Rizowski. Wow.

And it was for the Oxygen Network. It was the most fun I had had like ever on a job. And I just knew it was gonna go. It just, it was just amazing. And then it didn't go, but if it had gone, I wouldn't have gotten the office. And I always think about that. But that kind of chemistry of having this loose outline and getting to improvise the

beats of a scene with people who you trust, and it's so much fun. Oh, it's the best. Yeah. I mean, I think acting in a drama that's really well written and intense and layered and all that, Better Call Saul, the star of the show is the writing, you know? And that has a great reward when you finish a scene and it's difficult and you feel that you connected

with it, honestly, but it's not as much fun as doing this, what we're talking about. And look, I would love, Jenna, I would love to find a show where I got to do this. It really is the most fun because I am a writer too. So it lets you use that part of you or you're inventing things and there's no question, you do this thing and they say cut and you all laugh.

And that's just a good sign. If you're laughing at work. We laughed every day. We did on the set of The Office. Like every day there was a moment where you ruined a take because you were laughing. Bob, you mentioned that you are also a writer and we wanted to read you this fan question from John Grant in Raleigh, North Carolina because he's going to be really happy today. John said, I am the world's biggest Bob Odenkirk fan. I became a huge fan of The Ben Stiller Show,

through to Mr. Show. Bumping into him on our honeymoon was unbelievable. So you have met John Grant from Raleigh, North Carolina. He went on to say, while he's often known for Saul Goodman, he is a comedy legend, responsible for Chris Farley's Matt Foley Van Down by the River sketch and Mr. Show was groundbreaking and legendary in comedy. Can you please have him on the podcast? Yes, John, we are having him on the podcast right now. Hi, John. How are you?

I love that you were responsible for the Matt Foley Van Down by the River sketch. That's right. I am. I wrote that sketch. You wrote that for Chris. All by myself. That is bonkers. I will never forget writing that sketch.

How did it come about? It was actually this weird, my whole time at SNL, and this is part of it because I wrote it at Second City. I was supposed to be at SNL, literally when I wrote it. I've told this story in my book. In my third season of SNL, my friend Tom Giannis got hired to direct the main stage at Second City.

I grew up in Chicago and I went to Second City when I was 14 and it was a guiding light, you know? In that town of theater and comedy. And when I went to Chicago to do comedy, I very quickly sized it up and said, I am not waiting in that line. It's take classes and do the tour company and no, I'm not doing it. I'm gonna write my own stuff. I'm going to sink or swim, but nothing against Second City. It's great.

It's just, I don't want to, that's not why I'm in show business. You know, um, anyhow, I got invited to do, to do the main stage of Second City. I was my third year at Saturday Night Live. I had such a hard time at SNL. I was not very helpful there. I did help Robert Smigel with a lot of sketches. I wrote jokes and pitched things, and he used a lot of things that I gave him. But truthfully, I just struggled.

And then my friend Tom calls me up and rehearsals begin in like February or March for their next review. And SNL in the last three months of its season has like two weeks on, two weeks off. Well, first of all, I grew up in Chicago. I got to say yes. If you invite me to pitch for the Cubs, I'm going to say, I'm going to suck, but I'm going to say yes. Yeah. Yeah. You know, and you invite me to do Second City, I'm going to suck, but I am going to take

you up on that. So I said yes. And then I would go to Chicago for my two-week breaks every month, plenty of time to write and rehearse and be with the cast and plan. But then on those weeks where we had shows, they still needed me to be coming in. We were developing a show. So I would work at SNL Monday night, Tuesday night,

all night, Wednesday read through in the afternoon, Wednesday after read through, fly to Chicago, do the improv set, and you know, then stay Thursday, stay Friday, fly back to New York on Saturday morning, and Lauren doesn't even know I left because Conan and Robert and everybody pretended I was still there just around the corner somewhere. But I wasn't particularly helpful, so I wasn't missed, you know? And it was really only for like three months, so I probably did that three times, right? Anyway, I did it.

And it was extremely stressful. And I loved Chris, and Chris was great to me and loved me. And I loved Timmy Meadows, but there was tension in the world there, my little world there, because here I was, a guy who had left and was at that moment a writer on Saturday Night Live, coming back and bumping somebody who'd been standing in that line for eight years to get that part, to get that slot on the main stage show. I don't know why it didn't occur to me when I said I'll do it until I'd come to Chicago and done two weeks there.

And why does everybody hate me? I mean, hate me, not everybody, but a lot of people. I mean, literally look me in the eye like, f*** you. I mean, people said s*** to me. They did. They said stuff. People did stuff. Physical stuff.

What? Yes. Like what? They hazed you somehow? The lights would go out and I would get pushed. Oh my gosh! Comedy is no joke. Well, and I-

Don't jump the line in comedy. But I've got to say, I remember going home and going, well, I'd be pissed too at me. I don't need this job. Why did I say got to say, I remember going home and going, well, I'd be pissed too at me. I don't need this job. Why did I say yes to this? Just because I want to, because I grew up in Chicago. That's not right.

Those people who did say I'll wait in line should get this part. It was wrong of me to say I would do that. But I mean, what do you do? You get overwhelmed in the moment and you... Yeah. And again, you grew up in Chicago, Second City matters a lot.

That's right. And it mattered a lot to me. I love Second City. I just didn't want to wait in line, but I loved it. Anyhow, in the end, it worked out all right. I wrote a number of sketches for the main stage show that we did do, it did well, got good reviews. And one of those was Motivational Speaker.

And I wrote that after Chris improvised. We did an improv one night where we were playing faculty at a school doing an anti-drug whatever thing like, you know, and Chris did a coach, you know. He did his coach character, which is essentially Matt Foley. And also, I was listening, I think, to Tony Robbins at the time, in a sense. And so motivational speakers were kind of a new thing. And I thought, you know, what about this motivational speaker who uses himself as the negative example? Some stuck in me that that's funny that he's talking about himself, like, what a piece of s*** I was. You don't want to be like me.

Live in a van down by the river. And so I was really lonely because I felt out of place at SNL, which mattered so much to me. I felt out of place at second city, which mattered so much to me. I knew I'd alienated some people who were good people who I shouldn't have done that. But, you know, I'm working off fumes, you know, and I love comedy. And I, I sat there in, and not many things come out the first time you write them the way they're done. And that sketch I wrote right out on a legal pad that night alone in my apartment. And it was essentially exactly what we all did.

And because we then did it at Second City for the next few months, it didn't play on SNL for about a year and a half, two years. Wow. Chris really wanted to do it at SNL, but I think Lauren had a little bit of a, you did that in theater, we don't need that here. Which is totally, I get that. Eventually he relented and it did very well on SNL. But anyway, I'm very, you know, I feel very lucky that that all came to me in that moment and that it played so well. And my daughter once asked me when she was six, what's the most fun you ever had doing your job? And I without hesitation said every night at Second City Theater, the motivational speaker, I played the dad.

And the one, you know, besides for Chris just being so fun, every time he did it, he made it a point to make everyone laugh. He was not gonna leave the stage. By the way, every night, come on. And he, and he did it, he did it. And it was crazy, it was crazy. By the way, every night. Come on. And he did it. He did it. And it was crazy.

It was crazy. It was the greatest vibe ever to be on stage doing that. And also the audience, look, he wasn't famous. He was just some guy in a show that they paid to see. But to watch that audience transform in four minutes from people who are like, who are these young actors? They're kind of funny as I could say, he's fun to,

what's that guy's name? Chris Farley, I'm gonna love him forever. In four minutes was nuts. And you felt it, you felt it. And I've heard about that kind of magical stuff we've all heard about. This person came out and they sang one song and you kind of don't believe it, you know, because it doesn't happen that often. I mean, most things are hard earned, hard won and just incremental. But I'm telling you, at the end of that sketch, that was it.

350 more people were like, I love Chris Farley forever. It was cool. My favorite Mr. Show sketch, which we just showed our kids recently and they are now obsessed with, is the audition. Oh yeah. Well, I didn't write that at all. That was Dino Stamatopoulos. Oh my gosh.

Great. That is so funny. Itopoulos. Oh my gosh. Great. That is so funny. It's just great. It's too much. And also the hiker who went to Mount Everest but can't finish his story because he keeps falling into the thimbles. Oh yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. I did write that. You did?

Yeah. Okay, that was the other one we showed our kids. Yeah, it's called The Story of Everest. Yes, and he can't ever finish it. It was based on, Jay told us that we were sitting in the writer's room and he talked about how when he grew up, he had a grill, you know, one of those Weber grills. Sure. And it was in Chicago and they kept it inside the kitchen.

It was filled with holes. That seems like a really dangerous idea. It was during the winter or something. Cold, okay, yeah. But they didn't grill on it. No, you have to put it outside to light it on fire. Okay, I want to make sure. Let's just say you really should, recommend it.

And one time his uncle leaned on it and it fell over because ash went everywhere. They cleaned everything in the kitchen. Somebody came in and said, what are you guys doing in here? And the uncle said, they had finished cleaning. Oh, well, earlier I was telling a story and I leaned on the grill right here and he did it again. And that killed me. That killed me.

I said, that's the greatest thing I've ever heard. That's so dumb. And so it became thimbles. And a fun thing about that sketch is I love that sketch. But there are people who for them is like me with horror films. Like, they don't like that dumb repetition thing that can be so funny in comedy. But you know, we structured it. It's very structured.

Yes. But also, let's do one more than the structure asks for. And just see if we get a bigger laugh. And we did it and it got nothing. The audience, everything you hear on Mr. Show is live laughter, right? We didn't sweeten laughs. But we did take out that beat

because in the dress rehearsal of show, leaned on it one more time than is in the sketch with no buildup or anything, just to see if we would get another good laugh. People went dead and went oh because they went from thinking this is so crazy funny. I can't believe how many times are they going to do this to oh you f**k you. You are not going to make me sit through this. How many times, you know? You know, my dad's favorite joke when he was alive, it would make me laugh so hard. It's my dad anticipating something that's about to happen that he's already just

seen, like there was nothing funnier to him and you describing that just brought me right back. He would get so tickled that as a kid, I would just watch him, like, wait for that thing and he would be like, like, like, He was building up. Yes. And it was so fun. And I think I have a soft spot in my heart for those kinds of jokes now because I can

hear my dad waiting for it to happen and just losing his mind. Yeah. I like that kind of humor too. I mean, we did a sketch called Hunger Strike that also pissed people off because of how repetitive it is in the joke. But man, I love that sketch. That's David Cross playing a guy on a hunger strike giving a speech, and all he can talk about is the food he's going to eat. And he's supposed to be talking about like his political, you know, standard bearing, but he's just going, I have one message for everyone.

Can I please have a hot dog? Or whatever, you know, you can't stop. Bob, we haven't even barely talked about the office. We should, we should probably. Yeah, I think people listening to this might like The Office, the TV show. This was so much fun. Oh, by the way, I couldn't wait to do it. When I was invited by Greg to come do a rendition of Michael Scott,

I was like, this is the best. How did you get approached? Did Greg just call you? They just called, yeah. And did he pitch you the idea? Because I remember the idea was, Pam's gonna go in for an interview at this real estate office. And did he pitch you the idea? Because I remember the idea was Pam's gonna go in for an interview at this real estate office.

And they thought it would be really funny if it was like her life was gonna repeat itself now in Philadelphia. And her boss is basically Michael Scott. And then when Greg told me that he was gonna call you and have you play Mark, I was like, oh my gosh, this is like, this is a dream come true.

And so you were just like, yes, I'm up for it. Oh yeah, like I said, I wanted to do a show, I'll do any, almost any show like this. Any show that where you have the improv as part of the part, as part of acting in it, is I think one of the great things. So, yes, absolutely. I also think, you know, the whole thing of like having stories told about it was you or Correll, you know, gives me a chance to do it and show people what I would have done,

you know, although I do think that what I was doing was more a tribute to Steve because that's what I was supposed to be doing. You know, my character was meant to be very much a version of what Steve had invented when he played the character. Well, there was one thing that was all you, and we even got a fan question about it from Ella Edwards in England and Chloe M in Grand Prairie, Alberta, who said,

"'Jenna mentioned that her and Bob Odenkirk practiced their audition together and that Bob brought his guitar to do a song. Was your audition prep the inspiration for that scene in this episode?' It was. It was. I told Greg, I said, "'Greg, you have to tell Bob to bring his guitar,'

because Bob, doing that moment with you was so funny. I should say, I had been auditioning for the office for months, and then Naomi was like, hey, they just called Bob and asked him to come test for the role. I was like, well, right, of course. Bob didn't do all the crap I did. She was like, do you guys want to just do something together? Because there's going to be improv.

You guys could just work on your improv part together. I sat down with you and you pulled out that guitar and you started singing a song that was very similar to the one in the episode. Because the thing that was similar was the part where you're like, you're singing about how I'm attractive, but like I'm taken, but that's okay, but that's not what this is about anyway. And it was so funny.

And so I was like, Greg, you have to make him do that in this episode. And so that was, you were just improving that song, if I remember. You're just reading the resume, right? Yeah, but I think I'm going to guess that Greg told me to and gave me the structure of it, probably. I think my memory is that he was like, just here's her resume. Yeah.

Sing her resume to her. Yes. And clung on it. Listen guys, I don't remember all that much except that I had the greatest time and I got to go on and on and on. Yeah. Which I'm sure you guys didn't do on a regular basis, because you could never have shot the whole show.

I mean, I remember I walked around the office. Yes. And I talked to every person. Yeah. Like, yeah, I mean, I was just burning digital space. It's all in the episode though. Like that was the thing. Yeah.

Nothing got cut out. Yeah. Was it a two parter or a one hour show or something? It was, I think, meant to be a one parter, but then they made it into two parts because they loved it all so much. Yes, it became a two parter. Look, what an honor. I'm so glad it worked out.

It's the best. The best. Well, it's funny, Bob, because I don't even know if I've ever told you this, but Angela and I were driving here this morning and she was like, well, I know Bob, but I don't know him super well. You've known him a long time. What's he like? And I'm like, Angela, I have known Bob so long.

I have been to dinner with him. I have worked with him. I am so nervous around him because he is a comedy legend. And I, it's like, I just, I'm like, Angie's the nicest guy, but I'm telling you, I get so nervous because it was like, now you're doing Breaking Bad and you're doing Better Call Saul and it's like, what can he not do? What doesn't he do? This is like, it's getting worse.

There's an answer to that question. But I mean, it's just such an honor to have you here today. You know I can't sing. If you've watched my comedy, you know I can't sing. Well, I can't sing either. I can't either. And you know I love to make people listen to me sing badly.

I really do. But you know, there's really, there's two things that I can do. I can write sketches and I can do a certain kind of drama acting. And I really, and I believe I can do those things. You know, by the way, I am good with people owning what they're good at. We are in showbiz and we're constantly meeting people who are great at things and they're like,

really, do you like my singing? Elvis Presley, you think I'm any good, really? You want Elvis Presley to go, yeah, I can sing. What the fuck? This is the one thing I can do. Yeah, I mean, you're not a dick. You're not, you know, you want, I'm not saying I'm anywhere near that level, but you know, if you can do something, just calm it.

Own it. It's okay to know you can do it. Calm down. Yeah. You know, you're 60 years old now. There's hundreds of hours of you doing it. Don't pretend you can't believe that anyone has ever seen you do, because you see that all the time.

Yeah. Anyway, so I'll admit that I've written a lot of sketches and I'm good at that. And that I can do drama, which is a bit of a surprise to me. But I also do think it marries up with the kind of energy that I, that we all have what we have. You know, we also are used to seeing people who wish they were different, wish they had a different energy. You know, a drama person who wishes they could do comedy. And you know, you want to go, well, I don't know. No. Yeah.

Just calm down. It's okay. I mean, be thankful for what you have. For what you can do. I didn't finish my thought from the beginning, which is brother Solomon. Your greatest regret? Yeah. Oh yeah. Look, it is the greatest script and I love everybody involved. What if we had done that? What if I had engineered it such, not that I could have, I'm not sure I could have, where we shot it like an indie movie. Put them, don't build sets. Really work with the real world.

Put those two characters in the real world as much as possible. I think it might've worked. Like really work. Many people come up and say they enjoy that movie. It's so funny. It's so funny. It's interesting. This is like... They're just, I think it would be better. I think it would really work. Like it would really be like, I know why they made that movie. That has a purpose. And to take a very lighthearted,

conceptual behavior comedy and sink it into a world that feels incredibly real because it is, would be a neat thing. I don't know. Well, do you find this with certain projects, and I think it might be especially true of directors because I've talked to other directors about this before, and Lee, my husband, when he directs something, he always has this happen, which is that when you finish the project, you're a better artist than you were when you started it.

And you can only, like, you are better than you were when you started that thing, because that thing helped you grow. And so if you did it again, it would be better probably because you're better. Like you had, but you did it again, it would be better probably, because you're better. Like you had, but you had to do it to learn the thing, right?

I think with directing in particular, you can always look back. I mean, unless you're just like Steven Spielberg or something, I guess, and you just nail it on the landing the first time, right? I think you're probably right, yes. There's something there. Yeah.

Like an artist's journey. Yeah, like you couldn't know what you didn't know. Right. You know, it's like, there's what you know, there's what you don't know, and then there's what you don't know that you don't know. Yes, I mean, I think- And you can't know that until you know it.

This is like, the thing about showbiz, and there's luck involved, and there's so many elements involved and you know I think about older actors and how in a weird way they may have learned there's a lesson in this and what we're talking about too where I sometimes feel that they're extremely aware that they've done projects where they worked so hard and they worked so earnestly and everybody did their best and it didn't play well. It didn't work. And then they've done projects where people showed up a little bit half-assed, wasn't figured out, they were scared, and it was great. It really worked. And I think one thing people come away with after that is it's not worth trying. Just make the damn thing.

It might work, it might not. Who the hell knows? It's not worth sweating it too much. It's not so precious. Yeah, young actors and writers are like every second of the day trying to manipulate every little corner of that project to make it great. And the truth lies somewhere in between these two.

The other thing is so many people wanna be directors. And I encourage everybody to do and make everything. Just do stuff. And that's what, make stuff today, every day. Write a sentence, write a poem, write a journal entry, do a drawing every day. I hate to put the kibosh on anyone's dreams at all. I encourage people, but when you meet somebody like Spielberg, who's just a director, you know, he's born for this. You do go like, oh, well, yeah,

I could direct something, but he's a director. Yeah. I don't want to be a director or a writer. I hate both of those things. Yeah, I'm starting to think I hate writing a little bit. What? I don't know. I'm 61. Shouldn't you get more patient as you get older? I'm working on a couple movie scripts,

and I'm stalled out in a couple different ways. And it really is making me angry. Like what the f***? How? Come on. Really? Still? But yeah, yeah.

I mean, it's just the hardest f***. Some people love writing and I'm like, really? You love writing? You love looking at a completely blank page and having to put something on it? To me, that's just like the worst ever. That's my favorite part because I pace and I get ideas and I just throw it all down and I'm excited, but then my structure sucks, but that's what you're good at, lady. I love to edit.

I'll edit till the cows come home. Give me something to chew on and I can make it great, but I am not putting any ink on a blank page. I don't have anything for that. We wrote a book together and this was like I think the way our personalities complemented each other But when I told you and I was like John I want us to write a book together I want it to be a New York Times bestseller and we're gonna do it and she was like Angela I need you to hear me. I am never writing another book again. I wrote it one book by myself Yeah, you wrote a great book. Yeah. Thank you.

Yeah. Well, I should give Lee credit for a lot of that. Say the name of your book. What is it? I forgot. It's an actor's library. Oh, Actors Life. It's called The Actor's Life, a Survival Guide. It's really great.

It is fantastic. And then we wrote another one together and so you did do it. So you are a writer and you're a good writer. I don't enjoy it. Yeah, I'm talking about. I don't enjoy it. I hate it so much. It's so much work. It's such a slog. By the way, I get I love the feeling of reward from having written and when it turns out and I know I'm proud of it I get that that, of course. Good for you, yes. But getting to that point,

I mean, don't tell me you do that every day when you write. Cause no way. No. But I do think there are people like Stephen King must be- He must like writing. Having the time of his life. He has a bowl of popcorn. He has like cold waters. Soda's ready to go. You know, sodas. He has a bowl of popcorn. He has like cold waters.

Soda's ready to go. You know, sodas. He's enjoying it. He's like eating and typing and laughing. Snacks. This is how we imagine Stephen King's writing day. He's giggling and laughing. He loves it. He's such a laugher. And going, oh, what? No way! And then typing more.

And going, oh, what? No way! And then typing more. You know, please tell me that's what he's done with his life. If he was dragging his ass through it like I do, then I want to say to him, please stop. Pivot, pivot. With the rest of the time you have left to breathe and see and do things, don't torture yourself anymore. The only part of that scenario that I do is the eating. You do. You do the popcorn?

I do a ton, bowls and bowls of carbs. You made a whole box of, was it like Cheez-Its or something one time? No, Trader Joe's has these tiny- It's like a cracker. ...cheap sandwich crackers, mini cheese sandwich crackers, and I can eat them at the box full. Are they good, huh? They're terrific. I'll just sit there.

Are they like the little round ones? Little round ones. Oh, I think we have some. My son bought them. They're great. My son wants them. Don't eat one. Don't eat one unless you want to eat a box of them.

I don't want to. But that's what I eat, and then all I have at the end of the day is like three sentences and a stomach ache. Before we move into our next section, do you have any other memories from your time on the set? I had the greatest time. I got to improvise and wander around. Do whatever you want. Do whatever you want. I mean, it's just an amazing thing to be invited to do. Of course, you're hoping you're actually being funny, but they can cut it if you're not. Um... Um... Um...

I know it's not a memory of being on set. I loved it, Jenna. Thank you for doing it with me, you know, and and thank you to Greg Daniels and Jon Favreau and everybody in your crew and cast because I felt very welcome there. I think people think everyone in Hollywood is in a rivalry. And that's true of a lot of what we do. But not everything. I mean, I was very happy that I got to audition for the show. Totally fine and completely understood that I was not the right person for that role.

And super thrilled that Steve... I actually don't know Steve. I feel like I might have met him. You and Steve don't like really know each other? Yeah, I might have met him once or twice. Like a passing thing. Isn't that weird? Yeah. Yeah. It's really weird, cause he's a second city guy too.

Yeah. I mean, it's very weird. Him and Tim Meadows, that whole group. Oh yeah, and I'm super close to Tim, you know? But, you know, I never had anything but enjoyment that this show was happening and it was being so accepted and that all these wonderful actors got to have a showcase, like really show what they could do. When you live out here and you work here, one of the hardest things is, and when you direct

and you have people come in and audition, I mean, I always tell young actors, you know, you probably do too. I'm sure your book says something about try to work for a casting director once, because what you're going to see is you're going to see those auditions and what you're going to see is not that one person was amazing and everyone else sucked. Most of the time you're going to see that if 60 people auditioned, 15 of them were good, you know, 10 were really good, five, everyone was amazing. And you're gonna realize one of those five

is gonna get the role and the other four who were unbelievably awesome are gonna think I sucked. I'm not good enough. And they're wrong, they're wrong. They didn't get the part because they didn't match up with the other person who got the other part. And we've already got a person with that kind of energy. Now, you know, it had nothing to do. They were amazing. So it's heartbreaking, though, to have that awareness.

Because you're very aware that, like, there's people walking around thinking, well, I thought I was an actor. I thought I was pretty good, but I didn't get these roles. But you want to say, no, no, you were, you really were great. That's such good advice for the new actor. Or the old actor. Okay, we are going to wrap up this interview, Bob, which has been so wonderful. For a yammered forever. No, you didn't. We wanted you to yammer, which has been so wonderful. Before I yammered forever.

No, you didn't. We wanted you to yammer. We love a yammer. We yammer. So, you know, we look at all the call sheets from our years on The Office, and on the back of our call sheets, there was a really fun tradition where each week a cast or crew member was featured, and they were asked five questions. So we'd like to ask you our call sheet questions.

Oh, yeah, I want to hear it. Okay. Number one, what was your first entertainment job? Oh, uh, it's embarrassing. Say it! I'm pretty sure this is what it is. Oh no, I'm going to tell you. Okay. A guy had a bar. It was like a singles bar.

And he hired me and another person to play characters in the bar. And walk around and engage with people. Really? That is great. It was dumb as. F***. Did you take on like a persona? Oh, I had costumes and everything.

Oh my God. I did it like three times. It was super embarrassing, but you know, you know when you start, you don't know what you're doing or why. Somebody's paying you to act. Was he just trying to like drum up business and make it like a fun spot by having interesting folks? Yeah, yeah. So dumb, so embarrassing. All right. Number two, do you speak any other languages?

No. I barely speak English. Number three, what's a place that you've been to that you absolutely loved? Ireland, Kenmare and around the environment, the environs, the area down there in the Southwest. I've been there a couple of times in the last few years and it really is the best. I love it. Yeah. What made you go there in the first place?

Well, I love Ireland and I used to go there when I wrote at Saturday Night Live. I would go there once a year because it was relatively quick and you know, we'd have two weeks off and you just get on a plane in New York and be in Shannon in five and a half hours. It's shorter than LA, depending on the wind. And it's just the opposite of the life I was living in New York. I'd wander around and play golf and just kind of drive around. Beautiful countryside. So then many years would by and Naomi and I visited there.

Then we had kids, then no trips anywhere for a long time. Yep. And I really wanted to get back and I went back about two and a half years ago with Naomi and my kids and we spent about a week there. And I went a couple times for my books. And then last summer, I was like, I really haven't had the chance to just hang out there in a long time.

So I split off from Naomi and I went back to Ireland. And I actually went back to where we had already been because we were doing that traveling thing that you do of like, you know, going to Dublin for two days. It's like, well, you're not really, yes, you're seeing Dublin, but not really. You're there for two days. Yeah. You know, so I went and Kenmare is just great town that is kind of hip. It's kind of got some really great food in it and stuff and small town. And it's down there around, you know, Kerry, the Ring of Kerry and Bantry Bay is right there.

And, you know, you can get around pretty easily. And so I went back there and stayed for a week and a half and just hiked around. And I went up to Sligo and I went around. There's a number of towns that I used to go to when I was younger and I go back. And I can't wait to go back again. Do you think it's the place you've been to the most in your life? Uh-huh. Yeah, it is. Is it your happy place? Would you say it's your happy place? Absolutely. Yeah.

Yeah. I mean, a lot of people love Ireland. It's weird when you talk about Ireland, you're like, you just sound so corny because you've heard it. Everything you're saying has been said by other people so much. You know, it's a really beautiful place. It is also, can be very cold and rainy. Yes, this is true. This is true. Okay, next question. What do you like to do on the weekends? Oh, I'm pretty boring. And Naomi and I have been making an effort to be a great deal more social than we've been for 20 years. So we try to find people to go to dinner with and stuff, you know,

usually other people in the biz. That's who our friends are. But I wake up, walk my dog, which I do every morning, probably write or do a workout, have lunch, write or do a workout. So both those things happen either in the morning or in the afternoon. I've grown to like working out because of the feature that I made, the action movie, and sort of what I learned about exercise. So I do enjoy it. I'm gonna go do a workout after this.

Love it. And then try to figure out where to get some awesome dinner. And if there's a show we haven't watched, we just finished watching Baby Reindeer. Have you seen it? No. Have you seen it, Jenna? No, we just finished Ripley. We just finished The New Look. Did you enjoy it? I loved Ripley.

I love the actor, the hot priest. Hot priest. Yeah. Oh, yes. Hot priest from Sleeveye. Yes, I know. He has a name. It's Andrew Scott.

And yes, we should call him that. We should. Although I believe he must forgive you if you address him as hot priest. It was fantastic. We loved it. Oh, great. And then I just, I got on an Andrew Scott kick and then I watched all of us strangers. Beautiful.

Beautiful. That's great. Baby reindeer is really great. Okay. And really, it's intense. Really intense. All right. Okay.

I'll put it on the list. Yeah. I'll check it out. My husband and I are watching The New Look. You know who loves The New Look is Creed. Creed Braddy? Creed told me to watch The New Look. The New Look.

The New Look. Who is it? It's about Coco Chanel. Do they act it out or is it a documentary? No, no, it's scripted. It's scripted and it's shot during World War II. During the Nazi occupation of France. France and it's about Christian Dior.

Get out of town. Yes. And Coco Chanel. And Coco Chanel. And I'm totally in. Is he crazy? I'm hooked, I'm in, yeah. Well, I don't know. I mean, that sounds like. I'm hooked. I'm in, yeah. Yeah. Well, I don't know.

I mean, that sounds like nothing I would watch. Okay. Last question. Favorite midnight snack? Oh, I don't eat at night. Come on. Can't do that. I'm 61 years old.

Well, done. Yeah. I applaud that. Yeah, I'm in bed at midnight. I don't eat anything at midnight. Oh man, I'm in bed. Yeah. I'm gone.

What is your bedtime at this age? 10? 10? 10? Yeah, I applaud that. Yeah, I'm in bed at midnight. I don't eat anything at midnight. Oh, man, I'm in bed. Yeah. I'm gone. What is your bedtime at this age? 10? 1030? I can't stay up that late. My bedtime is 9.

1030. I'm 1030. I'm moseying up. I'm in bed at 9, and my lights are out by 930. Yeah. I can't go to the, if you want to have dinner with me, we need to eat like when the restaurant's opening. Like at 530 is not too early for me.

Listen, that's what we do. I'm with those people. Jenna, I'm always telling my wife, can we please get a five o'clock reservation? Some restaurants don't open until 530, but Bob, I have a list of five o'clockers if you need them. But the thing is, who wants all that food in their old person's stomach? Belly at night. When they're trying to fall asleep.

No one. My husband loves to eat at five, five thirty. And I've had conversation with my friends I call my sexy friends, who like go out at like eight o'clock to eat or something or nine o'clock. They'll say like, oh, it's impossible to get a reservation of that restaurant. I'm like, we've never had a problem. Because if you go at 515, there's the table. There is. Absolutely.

Thank you so much, Bob. See you guys at dinner at five o'clock. Bob, this was awesome. Thank you. Thank you. Thanks for letting me talk and talk and talk. I like to talk. Well, I like to talk about showbiz.

I like your thoughts on showbiz. I did too. Yeah. It's fun. This was wonderful. Yeah. Okay. Thank you. Go enjoy your workout.

How great was Bob? Amazing. I mean, gosh, Bob, thank you so much for stopping by office, ladies. Now during the interview, everybody, Bob mentioned his books, and you should definitely check them out. He recently wrote a memoir called Comedy, Comedy, Comedy, Drama, a memoir, and he also published Xylot and Other Important Rhymes.

That is a book of, like, it's like whimsical poetry. It's for people of all ages. His daughter, Erin Odenkirk, illustrated it. I might have written a blurb for it, everyone. Yes, but they are poems that are based on a book of poems that he wrote for his kids when they were little. And he would read them at bedtime. And it's really fun.

It reminded me of like Shel Silverstein. That's probably my best comparison. Also, the action movie he talked about is called Nobody, and it's currently streaming on Amazon Prime. And we'll share links to that and everything else in our pod stories. Thanks, everyone, for listening. And thanks, Bob.

Yeah, we hope you guys have a great week. ["The Office Ladies"] Thank you for listening to Office Ladies. Office Ladies is produced by Earwulf, Jenna Fischer, and Angela Kinsey. Our senior producer is Cassie Jerkins. Our audio engineer is Jordan Duffy. And our associate producer is Ainsley Bubbaco.

Our theme song is Rubber Tree by Creed Bratton. You