Office Ladies - Best of Office Ladies Deep Dives

Episode Date: October 7, 2026

This week on Office Ladies 6.0, break out your snorkel and flippers, because we're taking you on a deep dive. On this special episode, Jenna and Angela celebrate some of their all-time favorite tangents with a look back at the best Office Ladies deep dives! The ladies dive even deeper with brand-new research on everything you ever wanted to know about dueling, the scandalous history behind the color green, and even more fascinating WWII candy lore. Plus, Jenna rounds out the episode by creating her own secret message, inspired by Dwight's antics. So grab a nice beverage, find a cozy chair and get ready to geek out...enjoy!Office Ladies Website - Submit a fan question for Around the Town, Chit Chat, and Second Drink favorite moment: https://officeladies.com/submitaquestion Follow Us on Instagram: OfficeLadiesPodFollow Us on YouTubeFollow Us on TikTok 

I'm Jenna Fisher and I'm Angela Kinsey. We were on The Office together and we're best friends. And now we're doing the ultimate Office Lovers podcast just for you. Each week we will dive deeper into the world of the office with exclusive interviews behind the scenes details and lots of BFF stories. We're the Office Lady 6.0. Hi, everybody. Hi, happy Wednesday.

Happy Wednesday. We have all had a very eventful morning in our own ways. today. We just had a clunky morning, didn't we? I mean, Sam has the craziest story. Yeah, Sam, I think you win. Yeah. Someone stole my laundry. Someone stole my clean, dry laundry out of the machine and my laundry basket out of the laundry. And your basket. I didn't know that part. That's how I know it's on purpose. It's someone that is intentionally stealing it. This is a premeditated laundry. Yeah. Thievery. I needed those clothes too. This is within your building. So this, right. Yes. So. So what is the plan here? And is this a case for mom detectives? And are there any cameras?

Here's the thing. I need your help. What type of note do I put up? I need it to be, I need it to be aggressive, but I also need it to be passive. I will help you. Well, Jenna can do the aggressive and I'll do the snark. Okay, great. And we'll compose this note.

Yeah. You want to start it off, Jenna? My first thought is that you come in strong and you open with something like to the laundry thief. Okay. But now I'm wondering about that. Is that the right move? Where does that end, though?

Like, meet me outside. It's sort of like I would really like my laundry back. Okay. No questions asked. Please put it back in the laundry room along with my laundry basket. Okay. I might start it also something like this. On Thursday, September 3rd, at whatever time it was,

my entire clean laundry and my laundry basket were stolen or taken out of this room. Okay. Went missing. Went missing. I would very much like my clothes back and the laundry basket. No questions asked. Please leave them here.

If not, I will start asking around. I will notice if you're wearing my clothes. Can I post a picture of you two? If not, I will get these two involved. Yes. It's a law detective. Yes. I mean, that might be a bad idea because we do not

have a great reputation for solving cases. This is true, Sam. We will have snacks. We'll never find your clothes. True, true, true. Yeah. Could we stake out his laundry room with some snacks? This is becoming a slumber party so fast.

If we're going to do that, we might as well watch Lord of the Rings, all three of the Rings. No, here's what we do. Get pizzas, yeah. Yes, here's what we do is we get some nice, clean laundry and a nice new basket, and we just leave it there. And set a trap. And set a trap.

And then we hide out in the bushes as we do. Yeah. And we wait. Steakout style. Great. I'm for this. Mm-hmm. All right.

All right. It is going to be weird though, Sam. Like, I feel like your clothing is very uniquely you. I know. Yeah. Someone got a bunch of sleeveless misfit shirts that they're not going to wear. Damn it. It's very strange.

Yeah. I mean, mine is lame in comparison. I just left the house kind of like in a rush and distracted. And I didn't have my normal bag. you know how you pack your normal bag? It was upstairs and I was rushing out. I just grabbed different bag through all my stuff in it. And then I got in the car and I drove away.

I was like, wait, I don't have my laptop. I don't have any of my things. And I had to drive back home. I didn't take it out the door with me. I don't know. And then, Jenna, you had a total snafu. I spilled an entire cup of coffee all over my car. And when I texted the thread, Matt comes in hot.

And he's like, is this because you... drink coffee out of a lidless ceramic mug. Oh, yeah. I was just connecting the dots. And I was like, no, this one actually had a cover. Meanwhile, Matt has been sick, but you're doing a little better. So we've had a wonky start this week. But we're going to have a great episode.

Today's episode is a celebration of a few of the deep dives that we have taken on office ladies over the years. We get a lot of mail about our deep dives and we want to share a couple. The first one is from Don T. in British Columbia, who said, I love your podcast. I have listened to every episode and I am always so excited when new ones are released. Thank you for coming along with me on countless walks, drives, flights, etc. I have learned so much about my favorite show and also about so many other random fascinating things through all your deep dives and tangents. I could listen to you both all day. Don, I love that. Well, we also got this from Liz P in Nashville, Tennessee. Liz says, hey, office ladies, a long time listener, first time emailer. I'd just like to say that I absolutely love you ladies. I'm nearing the end of my third re-listen.

Oh, my goodness. Amazing. Wow. And Liz goes on to say, from your deep dives to your soapboxes and everything in between, you ladies have taught me so much. I love re-watching episodes with my boyfriend and telling him all the backstory that he didn't ask for. And then in parentheses, Liz says, he loves to hear it, though, because he's the Josh slash Lee to my Angela slash Jenna. Thank you so much for being a strong, empowering, safe place for me and so many others.

Love you, amazing ladies, so much. So we thought, why not revisit some of our favorite deep dives? This is for all of y'all who love these. And Angela, I know we got a letter from one listener who's wanted us to do this episode for a while now. Yes, Joshua S from Los Angeles, California wrote in and said, Hey, ladies, I am married to one of you. And I've been saying for a really long time, will you please do the best of deep dives?

I've literally said this for two years. And then some other people write in and you decide to do it. Sincerely, long time listener, Joshua S. Oh my gosh. I know, and when we decided to do this, you said, I told Josh, we were going to do this. And he was like, wait, what? What? Because he has been saying this.

And we'd been like, oh, no, what? No one. And then we decided to do it. He was like, I am literally like shouting. I love the deep dives. Oh, it's very sweet. Well, when we decided to do this episode, it kind of got me wondering what was our first deep dive. Mm-hmm.

My memory is that Angel's fear factor was our first deep dive. Like we had done deep dives on office related things, but Angela's Fear Factor Tangent was our first off-topic deep dive. I don't know if I clocked the first time. It seems like something that's always been there. Joshua Snyder co-signed that. He said, it was your fear factor. And he said, I'll never forget it because it was really gross.

Yeah. Well, it's from our breakdown of the carpet, which is from season two, it's episode 20 of Office Ladies. I think we should hear it. But yes, warning, it is a little mature for anyone who might be listening with kiddos. Yes, this might get the E for explicit. Not because of me, because of the subject matter. Yeah, let's hear it.

I did a deep dive on Fear Factor. Why, Jenna, why did I do a deep dive on Fair Factor? I don't know. This has started to happen to us where something's, mentioned in an episode and then we spend hours watching clips or researching things on websites. Oh my gosh. It was like you watching all the videos of the Hooters birthdays. Yeah. I watched these Fear Factor clips. You guys, it was like, okay, eat this dried horse rectum. I'm not kidding. Yeah. I'm not kidding. Yeah. Or intestine or something. And then I looked up why it got canceled. Okay.

It's so gross. What happened? I don't even think we can see it here. What happened? They had. It got canceled because it. of an incident? Yes, and they didn't air it, but it's why it got canceled and Joe Rogan has talked about it. It's so gross. What? Okay, you had two choices. This episode is called the he-ha episode. You could

drink donkey pee or donkey semen. That is horrible, Jenna. That is horrible. Did they do it? They did it. Oh! They did it. And one guy said, as he started drinking, he vomited back in his own cup. Oh, God. It's horrible.

Oh my God. It's horrible. This was, and how did this get? I mean, who was like, yeah, that's a great idea. Also, how did they get the donkey jizz? Oh, oh, Angela. I'm sorry. It's my first thought.

Whose job was that? Wow. Mm-hmm. No. No. No. I don't think so. No.

Not happening. Next up in the episode, wow. Sorry. did everyone do it? Or just like what happens if you don't do it? You're out. I don't know. Like I know they're, you know, there's the contest.

And if you do it, ultimately, whatever all the challenges are, I don't know how people get picked. But whoever does the challenge, if they don't do it, they're out. It was a crazy show. Crazy. All right. I am looking in the booth where Sam and Cody are sitting in everyone. They seem sad. I've ruined their day.

You guys, I just. Well, like, this was such a big deal for Michael to, like, be like, this is my Fear Factor Audition tape. I was like, oh, yeah, what was that show again? I just started looking it up. That was like one of the first things that came up. Anyway, you're welcome. Where are we? I haven't heard that in two or three years and I'm just as sad.

Bumming me out just as much. I'm so sorry. Two or three years, Sam, that's probably like, what, six years ago? Yeah. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. Well, glad you all got to relive it.

for that. And that is what started our deep diving. Our tangential deep dives. Yes. And then, Jenna, you really locked in. You're like, wait, we can do this. You can just like see something in an office episode and then be curious and share about it. And you really leaned in. You started doing a lot of deep dives. They're fantastic. But the thing that I thought was so cute is you were so excited at the beginning. You were like, we need a sting. We need a deep dive sting. And you're something. And you're something. who was so little at the time, wanted to do a sting for us, and you recorded it at home. And we used to play it. Do you remember? Yes. And you mentioned you wanted to play it today. And I have not heard it in so long, I can't wait.

It's so precious. Can we hear it? You got a deep, you got to dive. You put them together. Get a T-T-T-Sah. Oh, my gosh. His little voice. I know. His little voice. I mean, he's a freshman in high school now. He's a teenager. I know. Totally different voice now. Oh, precious. Precious. But anyway, you got super into deep dives.

And now let's revisit some of them, lady, yours and mine. Yes, we're going to take a break. And when we come back, we will be playing some of our favorite deep dives, but also giving you some new info we uncovered. That was very interesting. I'm excited to share and I can't wait to hear yours. Same. And, ladies, should I go first?

Yeah. I really wanted to revisit my deep. deep dive on dueling. It was one of my fast facts for when we broke down the episode, The Dual, right? Season 5, episode 12 of the office. It was episode 88 of office ladies. And as you all know, in the duel, Dwight and Andy duel over Angela. Yes. So here we go. Dueling deep dive. All right, fast fact number three, the history of dueling. What? What? First of all, I would just like to say I am not a historian.

I'm just a lady with Google. You're just a delightful lady that loves to Google. That's right. But I did read about four to five what seemed like reputable websites on the subject of dueling. Okay. And here is what I have pulled together. Okay. Dueling seems to have originated in medieval Europe.

Nobles would defend their honor in man-to-man battles. Well, listen, if you watch Outlander, you know that's true. I don't. Come on. Come on, Sassanek. Come on. Well, in 1777, a group of Irishmen codified the dueling practices. They wrote a document of rules, and listened to what they called it.

They called it Code Duelo. Code duelo. I'm pretty sure that's a type of dessert you can get. I'll have the codewello, thanks. I love the lemon flavor. It consisted of 26 very specific rules outlining all aspects of the duel, including the time of day during which challenges could be received, the number of shots or wounds required in order to win. I feel like Dwight would have known these 26 rules of dueling because he had the 40 rules all shrewd boys have to learn before they're five. He loves rules.

I feel like Dwight knows about these dueling rules. He must. Right? He suggested the duel. Oh, I'm sure he knew. I'm sure that some of these rules have made their way into the shrewd life. Into the shrewd 40 rules? Yes.

The first recorded duel in America took place in 1621 in the Massachusetts Bay Colony. Okay. And then America created their own set of dueling rules. Oh. They were written by South Carolina Governor John Wilson in 1838. So in a typical American duel, each party has to act through a second. I know this from the musical Hamilton, everyone. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Oh, like you have your partner that goes with you. Yes, you have a second. That's right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And don't you get to bring like a medic, like a doctor? Oh, that's an outlander. Never mind. That wasn't.

Jamie would bring Sassanac with him. Okay, never mind. Go. I don't know about that. Okay. I only read four to five websites. Okay. If we have a historian, perhaps they would know.

You should watch Outlander, but don't watch it with your children around. Okay. So listen, if a man felt like his honor had been insulted, he would tell his second to challenge the offender to a duel. You do not do it yourself. You send your second. The main duty of the second is to try to create a reconciliation, to avoid violence. Oh, so that person's like the mediator. Yeah, I mean, they're literally doing what all therapists tell us not to do, which is to triangulate communication in order to, you know, solve conflicts. But whatever, this is dueling. I'm the second in my family. I'm often the person sent in to smooth over the other stuff.

I think a lot of people have that position in their family. I get it. But if the second goes and said, hey, my guy is offended by you and wants to duel and the person says, great, we're dueling. The recipient of the dual challenge gets to pick the weapons and the time and the place of the duel. So for example, James Shields and Illinois Attorney General challenged future president, Abraham, Ham Lincoln to a duel. Oh my gosh. Lincoln accepted the duel and he chose the broadsword as their weapon.

James Shields was like, what the F? That's insane. Never mind. Forget it. And he called off the duel. So like, bold move by Lincoln. Lincoln's like, I'll show up and I'm bringing my sword to the duel. Do you want it?

Lincoln was like, I'm tall and I'm a swordsman. Yeah, James Shields was like, never mind. You know what, I'm good. You know what? I thought about it and I'm okay. Here's one. This one really got me. I guess Andrew Jackson was very famous for dueling.

Oh. Lots of duels, this guy. Experts placed his number of duels maybe as many as a hundred. A hundred. Was Andrew just pissing everyone off? He was just pissing everyone off. Everyone wanted to fight him. His most famous duel was with Charles Dickinson, not,

to be confused with Charles Dickens, the writer. Oh, I was going to say, did you see my look on my face? I was like, wait, wait, what? Yeah, no, Charles Dickinson, he was a horse breeder, and I guess these two guys hated each other. Dickinson accused Jackson of cheating on a horse bet, and he challenged Jackson to a duel. Jackson was like, I'll be there.

The weapon is pistols, but here's the thing. Dickinson was like known to be one of the best shots in the nation. So I don't know why Andrew Jackson, Pickson picked pistols, but he did. I think maybe it was just, I don't know, some swagger or something, right? So they show up. They duel. Yeah.

Dickinson got off the first shot. It hit Andrew Jackson in the chest. He's bleeding from the chest. Okay. All accounts are that he like held one hand to the wound, lifted his pistol, fired at Dickinson. His pistol misfired, it didn't shoot. Oh. So Andrew Jackson re-cocked his pistol.

fired again and killed Dickinson. This was very controversial, Angela. In the rules of dueling, you only get to fire once. That's what I was going to say. Aren't you one and done? And I know nothing about dueling, but I was pretty sure that's the case. Thank you, Hamilton.

Sorry. Yeah. I don't know. Andrew Jackson lived. He got away with it and was later elected president of the United States. I have a question. What is it? If you're Charles Dickinson.

Yep. You see Andrew Jackson pointing his gun at you to fire. Do you run a zigzag? Can you step out of the way or do you just have to stand there? Fingers crossed, it doesn't hit you. Is there no movement allowed? Can I not jump around? I don't know. I don't know. Because I'm not going to stand in one place. If you're pointing a pistol at me, I'm going to get moving. Yeah, I think you're not allowed, Ange. Oh. The last duel of record. in the United States was in 1859. Okay. Here's who it involved. Was it more white men shooting at each other? It sure was, lady. Not only that, it was a United States senator and a retired chief justice of the California

Supreme Court. Oh. Way to go, guys. No one died in this duel because, listen to this madness. One guy's gun jammed. Okay. And then the other guy fired his gun, but it hit the other guy in his gold pocket watch and they called a truce.

There you go. That was the last duel in America. All right. Now, if Andrew Jackson was there, he would have unjammed his gun and shot at you again. Right. Yeah. I would like to say, I don't know who Andrew Jackson's second was, but I think they did a real shitty job. What about Dickinson's second?

Dickinson's second tried to make a case that, you know, Andrew Jackson, I think should be tried for murder, but no one wanted to hear about it. That was very interesting. I liked all your dual trivia. Thank you. I enjoyed researching my dual trivia. I mean, there is just a part of me that would do a history podcast with you, but we get everything slightly wrong. Well, we're already doing that. I'm sure there are at least 12 things I did wrong in this fast fact number three. You know what? It's like our version of drunk history, but we're not drunk. Yes. We're just well-meaning ladies who Google. And tell you history.

Well, that was so interesting. I still find it fascinating, but you said you found even more stuff. Well, we had questions. Yeah. I didn't want to leave us hanging, lady. We did. For example, we wondered if you bring a medic to a duel. And?

And you do. It actually goes back to the code duelo. It was the job of the second to arrange the medic. And I mean, can we talk about that? that, though. What a thankless job it is to be a second and a very big job. Like, first, you had to try and mediate. You had to pick the time and location of the duel. You had to find a doctor as if you don't have anything else going on in your life. And could you imagine, imagine you are Andrew Jackson's best friend. A hundred duels? What? So much drama. He was so busy. So busy. Being the second.

How did Andrew Jackson have time for 100 duels? I don't know. Lady, could you imagine if you were my second? No. And I was like, lady, I have another duel. I'd be like, you need to work on some anger management because I don't have time for all these duels. It's like having a horrible bridezilla and you're the maid of honor.

And she's like, sorry, I'm getting married eight times. Yeah. Deal with it. And changing my mind all the time. Lots of drama. Lots of drama. All right. Well, anyway, Angela, you also wondered, this made me laugh out loud, do you have to stand in one place and wait for the other person to fire or can you move around, end quote, zigzag? Yeah. Well, I couldn't find a firm rule about it, but it was considered proper dueling etiquette to stand in the designated firing spot and not zigzag. But it did not say how you have to stand. And this is why. A lot of people in pistol duels, they stand sideways.

Oh, because then you're a smaller target. Right. Yeah. Mm-hmm. But you're supposed to stand there. And everyone, I found out that dueling was not just for men. Women dueled? Women dueled.

It was rare. I'm going to share about two women duels that I found. Okay. This one is amazing. Okay. In 1892, there was. a duel between Princess Pauline Metternich and Countess Clygolmseg. I'm sure I'm pronouncing that wrong.

But it is the duel between the princess and the countess. Where? Where did this happen? In Austria. Okay. And the reason that this duel happened was because the two women had a disagreement over floral arrangements. Holy crap.

Wow. Yeah. This would have been their version of reality TV. They'd be like you guys. Yeah. It's going down over florals. They were asked to create a floral arrangement for the Viennese international exhibition of music and theater. But here's the thing.

Princess Pauline was like the flower lady. She was known for it. Like this was her thing was flowers. Everyone knew it. So she was going to have a kick-ass huge, amazing flower arrangement. Until the countess had a bunch of other ideas. Oh. Princess Pauline was like so into flowers.

She founded something called the flower parade that went down the main street of the Prater in Vienna. It started in 1886 and it continues to this day. I would love this. Why don't I know about this? I don't know. We should go. Oh, can we? Yes.

Oh, we have so many places we have to go do. Go on. So this lady, she was the flower person. They get in a disagreement. They decide to duel the weapons. Wait, I'm sorry. Time out. What?

There's no talking it out about the flower arrangements. We go straight to duel. It got so heated, lady. Wow. It got so heated. These women could not figure it out. So they agreed a duel. Their weapon was swords.

swords. Swords. Swords. And they decided the winner would be determined by first blood. So not to the death. This was a thing with duels with if you dueled with swords, it was just to first blood. So she could, so one of them could nick the other. Yes.

And be like, okay, fine, you win. Yes. I have another element of this duel to share. They did it topless. What? Topless with swords. This is reality TV. for 1829.

This is because the duel was overseen by a baroness who had a degree in medicine, and she told the women that they should duel topless because she had seen how many times someone had gotten just like a fragment of dirty fabric in their skin and it would get infected and it could kill you. Oh. This duel lasted three rounds. Three rounds. How long are the rounds?

Who's counting that down the seconds? I guess so. Princess Pauline won. Yeah. And lady, I saved the best for last. She was 50-6 years old. Yeah, girl. Yeah.

She knew her flowers. She let herself be sloppy titty. She won. She fucking won the duel. Wow. And her flower parade continues. That's an amazing. story. That's an amazing story, lady. I loved it. I have a second one. Can it top the topless flower

arrangement ladies dueling? There's no way. Probably not. Probably not. But this was in 1792 in London. Lady Almeria Braddock challenged Mrs. Elphinstone to a duel in Hyde Park with pistols and swords. Wow. Because Mrs. Elphinstone insulted Lady Braddock's age. Oh. Braddock said that she was 30 years old. Was she lying? Elfinstone said more like 60.

Oh, shit. Get your pistols, get your swords. So there was a duel. She did tack on 30 years. She did. Okay. So first they shot pistols and they both missed. Okay.

And Braddock was like, I'm not satisfied. So they picked up swords. She drew first blood and Elphinstone had to write a letter of apology. Wow. Incidentally, just tack it on the end. I also found out about a duel between a French woman and an American woman who got into an argument about who had better doctors, France or America. the things people duel about. People get so pissed off.

Yeah. Relax everybody. Yeah. Listen, if you want to spend hours and hours and hours of your life, researching, dueling, the internet does not disappoint. It does not disappoint. It sounds like a fun time. It actually really, really was. Well, lady, I loved every second of that.

I also had a really good time on the internet. Yep. I did. What did it bring you? Well, I thought it might be fun to dig a little deeper into one of my deep dives on the color green. Now, to refresh your memory, it was the episode Take Your Daughter to Work Day in season two, episode 18, that got me started on this. Dwight is playing the song Green Sleeves on his little recorder, you know, for the kids who came in to work that day. They're all in the conference room.

And he mentions Green Sleeves was the song, and I had to look it up. And that led me to this journey about the color green. Let's hear it. This is big. This is one of my biggest cards of this episode. What is it? This is a big card for me. He finishes playing the song and he goes, that was Green Sleeves.

That's an English ballad written about the beheading of Anne Boleyn. Okay, so you know I did a term paper on Ann Bolin. In college. I love Ambelin. No, in high school. Oh. Yes, in high school. Senior term paper.

But I looked up Green Sleeves. Okay. This was fascinating to me. Sorry, about to geek out on you guys a little bit. There is a persistent belief that Green Sleeves was composed by Henry the 8th for his lover, Anne Boleyn. Here's what really threw me for a loop. Ready?

Yeah. There's this other interpretation of the lyrics. Ready? Yeah. Lady Green Sleeves was a promiscuous young woman, even perhaps a prostitute. Okay. At the time, the word green had sexual connotations, most notably in the phrase, a green gown, a reference to the grass stains on a woman's dress from engaging in sexual intercourse

in a field somewhere. Green is kind of horish. Green is kind of horish. This justifies that whole life for Angela Martin. I freaked out. I was in my, that's what she said, and I'm like, green is horish. I'm sure my neighbors were like, what is happening? Lady, green was like a dirty color. Great. bind, Angela. Thank you. That is some deep diving historian type work on the internet to prove a reference line from the office. Well done. Thank you.

I give you this. Thank you. So, yes, green is horrish. That was such an amazing find. Yeah. Amazing. Well, I did a little more Googling. First of all, I didn't really share much about the actual song, Green,

sleeves. And it is a broadside ballad. Its actual name is a new, but new is spelled N-E-W-E. N-E-W-E. It's old, like, old English. Old, old-timey speaking. A new northern ditty of ye lady green sleeves. Okay. The actual name. It was registered by Richard Jones at the London Stationaries Company in September of 1580. This is an old song. old song, I've listened to many versions of it now, lady. And I didn't share any of the lyrics when we first talked about this. And I wanted to share just the first stanza. So you really know what was going through. Maybe Henry the Eighth's mind when he wrote this song, although that has been disputed that he wrote it, but still, here we go. Alas, my love, you do me wrong to cast me off discurteously. For I have loved you

well and long, delighting in your company. Green sleeves, was all my joy. Green sleeves was my delight. Green sleeves was my heart of gold and who but my lady green sleeves. Your vows you've broken like my heart. Oh, why did you so enrapture me? Now I remain in a world apart, but my heart remains in captivity. You know, something that's landing on me now, and again, I'm sorry to be coming back to time management, but like when did he have the time to write this whole thing? This is what you did before screens. You could have duels and you could write long songs and poems and things. I mean, that was just one stanza. I know. That's what I mean. It goes on and on. It does. So, yes, green sleeves broke his heart. And it did send me on a journey of the color green

throughout history, it is fascinating. It could be a whole entire episode, okay? I just want to share a few tidbits, though, about the color green, all right? Is it weird that green is my favorite color? No. I've painted all of my offices green. My office is sage green, as you know. We both love green. Our studio we're sitting in. The walls are green. It's supposed to be the color of creativity. Well, it has several themes throughout history, prosperity. It's often most common. Most commonly associated with fertility, you know, the seasons of agriculture, rebirth, growth, right? Mm-hmm. And then somehow it found its way in literature and art to also have lust, betrayal, jealousy.

Let's go back in time a little bit, lady. Okay. Let's start with the fact that green has been used in art since the time of ancient Egyptians. They used green earth and malachite to make the color green. For example, the Egyptian god of fertility, death, and afterlife, Osiris, was often depicted with green skin. Oh. Yeah. Then green pops up in the Ming Dynasty.

Laws required male relatives of workers connected to prostitutes to wear green headwear or garments so they could be easily identified by the public. A link to prostitution again. Yes. In Chinese history, wearing a green hat signified that a man. wife had been unfaithful. Whoa. Yeah. Then in artistic drawings throughout history, the color of the snake in the Garden of Eden is often green and sometimes had a woman's face.

That pisses me off. I know. Then here we go. I thought this was super interesting. In the Elizabethan era, green was a common color for wedding gowns for brides in the lower or middle class. Hmm. Interesting. Green then had a resurgence in art during the Impressionist movement due to advancement in green pigments and paints, became a very bold fashion color in the 1800s for gloves and dresses.

But oh my goodness, this brought me to this crazy story about how the color green was starting to be made for mass production. Because I guess like in the Elizabethan era, they used plant dye, right? But now, in 1775, the Swedish German chemist, Carl Wilhelm Schill, if I'm saying that correctly, this was wild to me. He used copper and arsenic to make his color green, making it highly toxic. But people didn't know this, and it was cheap and easy to produce, and it vividly mimicked the natural color of green in nature. They used his color in house paints, Victorian wallpaper, cotton dresses, artificial flowers, children's toys, even to color certain foods and sweets. But guess what? But it had arsenic in it?

Factory workers, tailors, and residents in rooms with green wallpaper suffered from chronic arsenic poisoning. People that dusted the fake flowers with the green paint and dust experienced skin sores, blisters, respiratory failure, in severe cases, death. from inhaling dust and flaking wallpaper particles. So it did fall out of favor in the late 19th century because it became clear it was extremely toxic. And historians think that Napoleon Bonaparte died because of Schills Green because they used this toxic pigment in his bedroom wallpaper. Oh my gosh.

Like how did news of this spread? Like news of this spreads and then can you imagine you get invited over to someone's house for dinner and they're, oh my gosh. They have green walls. And you're like, babe, we got to go. I am not going in there. And you're like, don't be rude. It's like, but I read in the paper about the green.

You can't go in any room that's green. Yeah. And it was everywhere. This is also interesting to me, too, though, about the fact that it was cheap to make, right? This led me to this. You know the UK Parliament, right? It split. Is it green?

Hold up. It split into. to two chambers, right? The publicly elected House of Commons, sometimes called the lower house, and the appointed House of Lords, the upper house. The House of Commons has green seats. Stop it. And the House of Lords has red seats, primarily due to centuries old traditions, right? House of Lords, they were that, quote, red was associated to royalty at the time. and then House of Commons were, quote, commoners, green, right? And green was historically linked to public meeting places and the common people.

Wow. Right? To this day, their seats are still green and red. But like the seats are... They're not the toxic seats. But I just find it very interesting. So I have to end this with one last thing, which is, did William Shakespeare talk about the color green? and there are two famous moments.

In Antony and Cleopatra, which was performed in 1607 for the first time, Cleopatra has this famous line that lady I now want to use. What is it? Okay. She is reminiscing about her youth, about her inexperienced past and her early romance with Julius Caesar.

And she says, my salad days when I was green in judgment, cold in blood. This has gone on to become kind of a phrase to talk about your salad days as your early days. Isn't that kind of fun? Don't you kind of want to use that? Just randomly at like back to school night or something. Oh, those were my salad days.

Those were my salad days. And then also Shakespeare talked about the green-eyed monster in Othello. Sure, sure. Oh, beware my lord of jealousy. It is the green-eyed monster, which doth mock the meat. it feeds on. I mean, I could go on and on. I ended up looking up green and like the Celtic age and the green man. And I read like a whole thing on Sir Gowan and the green night. I mean, it's just fascinating this color, how it's just woven throughout history. Well, my question to you is,

does Angela know all of this when she says green is horish? It's very interesting because there's so many positive references to the color green. You know, you could choose to see rebirth and fertility and nature, or you could choose to see, like, common and lower class and lustfulness and all that. And that might be the filter that Angela Martin was using. I think she knew some of it. I do. I think she did too.

Mm-hmm. All right. Well, I loved that. Everyone, we're going to take a break and we're going to be back with even more deep dives. We're back and now we have two fun things to share. They're both from sort of our World War II deep dives. Yes. I'll start.

This was one of my favorite surprises when I was researching things for the podcast. I talk about it in lecture circuit part one, which is season five, episode 16. I did a deep dive on the Mounds bar because it all started with that scene at the Utica branch where Pam throw. Mounds bars in the conference room as part of the presentations that she and Michael were doing. And that led me to look up the origin of the Mounds Bar. It was fascinating. I'm so glad you did. Let's hear it. Well, I couldn't resist, Jenna. When I heard mini Mounds bars, I had to look up the origin of the mini Mounds Bar. Oh, I'm fascinated. I love a Mounds Bar. I ate many of the Mounds Bars that day, I should

say. Are you Mounds Bar or Almond Joy? No, no, no, no. Okay. Don't throw any nuts in my dark chocolate and coconut treat. Can we play the jingle, please, that will live in your brain forever? Sometimes you feel like a nut. Sometimes you don't.

Almond Joy's got nuts. Mounds don't. Because sometimes you feel like a... Sometimes you... Yeah, I never feel like a nut. You never feel like a nut. No. I am also a mini-micli.

Mounds Bar person. I love the dark chocolate. I love it. But let's start our story, guys. How did we get the mini mounds bar? Our story starts with Peter Paul Halogen. He was a candy manufacturer in New Haven, Connecticut in the early 20th century. He was born in Armenia, and he immigrated to the U.S. in 1890 and opened a candy shop. He would sell candy bars to the U.S. Army, and they would put them in the soldiers' monthly rations during World War I. And then they loved the candy bar so much when they came home. They wanted more. So after the success of that, he teamed with five other Armenian investors to form the Peter Paul Candy Manufacturing Company. They then made a very smart purchase. They purchased a candy line from candy maker Vincent Natito, who created the original Mounds Bar. He was selling it for five cents. Oh, full size. Five cents? They're not very big. But a full-sized bar is two.

He sold one. It was always a mini. It was always a mini. Okay. And then Peter Paul actually just starts selling it in a pack of two for 10 cents. I wish you could see Angela's hands right now. Two mounds bars. Here, you want to take my pictures?

Yeah. I wanted to show Jenna what it would look like. Too many mounds bars. There it is. Okay. Well, Jenna, during World War II, the Peter Paul candy manufacturing company was faced with a severe shortage of sugar and coconut, right? Oh. World War II, they had normally been shipped from the Philippines, then the war broke out.

So the company began sourcing coconut from the Caribbean using its own fleet of small vessels to transport coconut supplies to the U.S. They were nicknamed the Mounds Flea Fleet. There were about seven ships small enough to avoid detailed scrutiny by the German naval war vessels. My gosh. All of this just to get coconut for some candy. Wait, it gets better. I have to say, if you're a ship captain during World War II, are you risking your life to bring people coconut? Hold up. Okay, I guess you are.

Apparently, this flea fleet, as it was called, was so... Flea, like, flea-le-le-a? A little flea. It's a little fleet. It's a flea fleet. Oh, a teeny tiny fleet. Got it. It was so small in size, it posed no threat to the German U-boats that were patrolling the Atlantic waters.

But what the German naval commanders did not know was that the crew of these vessels were also gathering more than coconuts. They were gathering valuable intelligence about the Germans fleet movements and sharing it with the American armed forces. Wait one moment. What you're telling me is that while collecting supplies to make one of my favorite candies, these folks were also providing important war intelligence to the United States. Yeah. These folks were also providing important war intelligence to the United States government during World War II. Yeah. The mini Mounds Bar, I'm telling you, I was fascinated by all of this. And they also dropped all of their other production of candies and just concentrated on the Mounds Bar because it was so popular.

And the U.S. military purchased as much as 80% of their output by 1944. They would package 5 million candy bars monthly into combat ration. Wow. Yeah. And now, as we know, over the years, Peter Paul, they added several more things to their line, including the Almond Joy, which they're often sold together. But that's the story of the mini Mounds Bar. They're now owned by the Hershey Company. You can still enjoy them today. Isn't that an amazing story? I would like to enjoy one today. So would I. The Mounds Flea Fleet. Wow. You guys, you can learn more about it at Connecticut History.org. Fascinating. I have to say, I also love that it's an East Coast candy because it tracks with our show. It does. That Michael would be supporting something that originated in Connecticut. Wow. There you go. I mean, what's fascinating? The things you did not know you were going to learn today were that.

I know. I definitely was not expecting that. Amazing. After listening to that, I went back and looked at my notes and then I went back online and I pretty much got it. Lady, I retell that fact at dinner parties because it is such a great little unknown tidbit. Like this is especially good at Halloween. Oh, you're around candy. I love a Mounds bar. You just say, oh, actually, I have an interesting fact about the mini Mounds bar.

Mm-hmm. It kills. It kills. It's just a great little story. Well, I was wondering, was there any other candy used during wartime? Was there? Well, let's just say I did find a cool story that might be fun at a party. Okay. Not so much wartime, but sort of historical moments. All right. Okay. So it's about Twizzlers. What? Yes. All right. So they were first made in 1912 by the Young and Smiley Company. And the company that invented Twizzlers, that is one of the oldest confectionary firms in the United States. Young and Smiley.

Which was trademarked later to be Y and S, okay? But they've been around a really long time. Okay. But Twistler's was kind of little known until the 1960s, and they became really mainstream. Okay. Now, there is some great lore. Ready? Mm-hmm.

We all know Neil Armstrong's famous quote that he said after landing on the moon during his historic moon landing mission, he said, quote, that's one small step for man. One Giant Leap for Mankind. Yeah? There is rumor that he had a second comment he said right after that. What about Twizzlers? There's rumor that he said, quote, I could go for some Twizzlers right now. I mean, the Hershey's Company had it on their website.

Other people have talked about it. I don't know for sure, but this is the rumor that he said, that's one small step for man, one giant leap for mankind. I could really go for some twizzlers. I mean. Also, Twizzlers set a Guinness World Record on July 19, 1998, for the longest piece of licorice ever made, stretching over 1,200 feet long and weighing 100 pounds. Where?

I don't know. On earth. Is it? Was it edible? I guess it had to be edible. It had to be edible. Did a whole bunch of people come and eat it? I don't know.

I should have looked that up more. I have so many questions about the largest piece of licorice. Okay. All right. I'll have to look back into that one. And here's the other thing, which put it in a little bit of the sort of like world of conflict, right? Okay. Like historical conflict.

It is documented that in 2016, during the American Iran nuclear talks, that the American diplomatic team consumed 10 pounds of strawberry Twizzlers. Wow. I guess they were stress eating. I guess so. You know, Twizzlers can be used as a weapon. Have you ever thwapped somebody with a Twizzler like real hard? It hurts. Have you?

I feel like my sister and I might have thwapped each other. I mean, that's a random, random tidbit to know. Just really ready on the go, Jenna. Did you know you can hit people with them? You can. You know, if you like thwap somebody with a towel. Sure. Similar.

Yeah. The Twizzler thwap. Well, there goes our Twizzler contract. I guess so. Well, that was very interesting, Angela. I love every time you deep dive food. There have been others. They're always delicious.

Did you like that? That was so bad. That was so lame. That was such a dad joke. You know what? I almost brought Twizzlers in today. And I wish I would have because then we could have tried to. We could have tried to thwap each other.

We could have tried to thwap each other and seeing if it hurt. Yeah. It does hurt a little. Well, lady, as you mentioned, I also encountered an interesting fact around World War II. It was in a deep dive that I did for the Casual Friday episode. So Casual Friday is from Season 5, Episode 26. And in it, Michael has made Pam and Ryan salespeople.

And the rest of the sales staff is getting upset. So Dwight calls the secret meaning of the sales staff in the warehouse. And he does this in a very unconventional way. that led me on a deep dive into Invisible Inc. Fascinating. Fascinating. And very moving. Very moving.

Heroing, amazing survival. Fantastic story. All right. Let's listen. Dwight is going to notice this special treatment that Michael is giving them. It's time for him to pass out a secret memo with Invisible Inc. Yes. Where did he get?

at the invisible ink, you might like to know. He says it's urine. Yeah, I'm guessing his urine. Yes. He's very frustrated because people don't know how to reveal the invisible urine message. Right. They're not savvy to the invisible ink thing. Well, this got me wondering.

Oh, no. I googled can you use urine as invisible ink? Oh, my God. Really and truly, at the end of this podcast, I want to present. or search history and put it in a frame. Please do. Well, I'll have you know that, yes, urine can be used as invisible ink. And I discovered the most fascinating story of people using urine as invisible ink.

And I'm going to share it with you now. Oh, okay. I'm reclining and getting my cup of tea. I'm settling in. All right. During World War II, there were a group of Polish prisoners who were taken to a Nazi death camp, and they used their urine as invisible ink to write letters detailing the horrific experiences that were going on at the camp. They were a group of young Polish girls and women who had been part of the Polish underground resistance to the Nazi regime.

And they were captured. they were imprisoned, and this group were called the rabbits of Ravensbrook, because, and this is horrible, they were subjected to extreme medical experiments like rabbits. That's why they got this nickname. However, they were allowed to write letters to their families back home once a month, but the letters were heavily censored. One of these women remembered. that when she was a child, her and her brother had read this series of books where people were writing messages in Invisible Inc. So they used their urine to write these secret messages. And due to a reaction with the paper, the urine loses its color and becomes invisible. But then if you

heated up, it reveals what was written. And in her first letter to her brother, she wrote about these books that they read as kids, and he figured out the code and knew how to reveal the hidden messages. So they came up with this code with their families, which was, if the hidden messages were revealed, the families would send back a letter with a little piece of blue string. And that's how they knew if their messages were being received. So eventually, the contents of these letters and the horrific details of the camp were broadcast on the radio, and the camp was liberated by the Red Army, and the four women who wrote the letters all survived. Their letters were used as evidence to prosecute the guards. Wow. And 77 years later, these letters can still be read because 27 of them are

still readable and on display in a museum in Lublin. Oh my gosh. That is an amazing story. Amazing. I was completely riveted. I couldn't believe it. I couldn't believe it. Yeah, I'm just sort of speechless at the gravity of that story and how it's amazing.

Yeah, I mean, just amazing, right? Yeah. Well, we got a letter from Conrad F from Lublin, Polaro. who said, hello, office ladies, I've started listening to your podcasts a few months ago while running, and today I listened to the Casual Friday episode. I was shocked because you were talking about the secret letters written using urine during World War II. I checked, and these letters really are on display in one of the museums in my city. I walked by this building probably like a thousand times, and I never knew that.

Thanks for the constant entertainment as well as all the random bits of information I learned through your podcast. I'm still amazed that my city was mentioned, even though it was in one of the weirdest contexts I could have ever imagined. Wow. Yeah. I mean, I would love to see those letters. I feel like that would be so powerful. Yeah, it would. And I'm so glad they're preserved.

Yes. Well, in revisiting this subject of invisible ink, I found that there are a lot of organic, as they are called, substances that can be used as invisible ink. So urine is considered an organic invisible ink. And others are lemon juice, milk, and a sugar water solution. So like urine, all of these are revealed through applying heat. Does the milk get smelly? I don't know. I am not sure.

Another organic invisible ink is like a candle. Like I watched a video with a guy who tested different organic invisible inks. So do you write with the wax and then take the wax off or something? Well, he used like a birthday candle. Uh-huh. So he didn't melt the wax or anything. He just sort of used it kind of like when you write on an Easter egg with like a clear crayon and then you put it in the colored water and then it reveals the design. It was kind of like that.

Got it. Because the wax is not revealed through heat. It's revealed through putting like a colored substance on top. Like Batique. That's how they make Batique. Yes, exactly. Yes, exactly. Okay. I actually watched him try all of these. This was a fascinating video. I just love that someone, this guy, he was like, I'm going to spend my day testing various organic invisible ink methods. I love that you watched his video. I loved that I watched a video that was an hour long on the green man throughout like carvings on churches. Yes. All the way to King Charles, his coronation invite had the green man on it. Lady, this is a whole other dives. I know. I know. I love curiosity. I do too. So what else did you watch?

Well, the milk was really good. It was really good because it totally disappeared into the paper. Like, he wrote things in all these organic materials and then he let them dry. And the milk, like you could not see any evidence that there was anything on this paper. That's fascinating. At all. So that was really fascinating. It really disappeared into the paper.

And then he revealed it with heat. So I'm just saying Dwight did not need to use his urine. He probably could have just gotten some milk from the fridge. Or from his cows on the farm. I mean, yes. Yes. He did not need to give everyone notes with his urine on them. But before we go, I thought maybe I could write my own invisible message and reveal it today on office ladies.

I used my urine as invisible ink. No, Jenna. Wait, wait. Yeah. What? What? Wait, I have so many questions. You peed in a cup?

I did. And then you put it in a writing device? No. Like the guy in the video, I used a Q-tip. I dipped a Q-tip into my cup of urine. And I wrote a secret message to be revealed today. I really hope this ends up in People magazine. Oh, no.

Of course. Will, you know that they do me dirty all the time. This will be the thing of all the things I've shared on the podcast. They'll lead with your age. A horrible photo of me. And it'll be like Jenna Fisher writes with her own urine, after which she peed and didn't wash her hands. That's exactly what I was going to say.

I know. I did wash my hands. Okay, so hopefully you can't read it. I'm going to hold it up now, and I want to see if you can tell me what I wrote. So I wrote Office Ladies and Sharpie. Can you read between the lines? No.

No, I see nothing. Truly. Okay. It does take a while. I did a test urine message. Did you? You know what? This is my family.

Wait, wait, wait, hold up. Hold up. She was throwing shade at the green sleeves guy for writing a song about heartbreak. Who has the time? And you did two? You're in writing test. We don't know that it's too. This could be test number 40, number 50.

Here's the thing, guys. You did have some free time. I wanted it to work, you know, and I was like, oh, what is the best way to reveal the message? Because you reveal it with heat. And this guy had like a blow torch, like the kind of thing that you put on top of creme brule. I don't have that. So you brought in a candle and a lighter?

I see that you brought in that. Yeah, because this was. the best. So I tried some suggestions are that you can use a light bulb. I didn't even try that because that just seemed like, come on. And then I did one and I ironed it. That did not work. I used... Lady, you put so much time into this. Oh, my God. Was your family, like, witnessing all of this trial and error? Family hasn't seen her in three weeks. I'm like Jim with his breaks on Dwight. Yeah. I used my flat iron.

I tried to flat iron it. Nothing. No, it wouldn't be revealed. Then I used just a lighter underneath the paper and I set the paper on fire. I was going to say, I was going to say, how did you do that without burning it? It's very difficult. And so then I had to be in the cup again and I had to write a whole second invisible message. And I was able to get it to reveal itself using a candle.

Okay. So that's what I brought today. And everyone, we will have to speed up our reaction to this because it's going to take a minute. Okay. Okay, Jenna is lighting the candle. I'll do color commentary. There's going to be a lot of commentary. Okay.

Now, I just have to try not to set the paper on fire. Okay. As I did at home. I will point out there are water sprinklers over our heads. We could get doused. Yes. You know. I think I see it.

A D or C? Yes. Oh, a D-E. D-E. Okay, we have a D and an E, everybody. I can see the second E. You can see it. D-E.

Okay, I think you're starting to see it. I can see it. After eight long minutes, my message has been revealed. Ready for the reveal, everyone? Here it is. All right. office ladies deep dives that's awesome yeah yeah

way to go lady thank you I have a question for you guys yes I think it kind of smells it smells like burnt urine that's what it smells like I thought of it immediately yeah I was like this smells like if you took pee and burned it on fire yeah so I guess is that not what you were going for no that's

That's, I think, one of the downsides. Anyway, everyone, I guess, just word of warning if you do it. But then I guess if you use milk, does it smell like sour milk? Maybe. Maybe. Something to try. Jenna, you have your next assignment. All right, well, everyone, thank you for joining us today.

We hope you enjoyed our best of office ladies deep dives, dare I say, part one. Oh. Will there be another? such episode. We do love to Google. That was super fun. I loved it. And thank you to everyone who wrote in.

And thank you Joshua S from Los Angeles for talking about it for two years. It finally happened, babe. It did. And it was a great episode. You were right. All right. We'll see you guys next time. See you then.

Thank you for listening to Office Ladies. Office Ladies is a presentation of Odyssey and is produced by Jenna Fisher and Angela Kinsey. Our senior producer is Matt Beagle and our audio engineer is Sam Kiefer. Odyssey's executive producer is Leah Reese Dennis. Office Ladies was mixed and mastered by Bill Shultz. Our theme song is Ruppertry by Creed Bratton.