Office Ladies - Second Drink: Business Ethics with Amy Ryan

Episode Date: March 30, 2026

This week we’re breaking down Business Ethics. Jenna and Angela interview Amy Ryan on what it was like to play Holly Flax! Amy even shares her own Coopers Seafood House story. Angela shares about some very special DVD commentary guests who worked as craft services and caterers on The Office set. Jenna does a deep dive on how the Cookie Monster’s parody of Tay Zonday’s “Chocolate Rain” was made after this episode aired, and the ladies discover they both did the same deep dive on what people can do in, let’s say, 19 minutes. So let’s get ethical with this amazing Office Ladies episode! Office Ladies Website - Submit a fan question: https://officeladies.com/submitaquestion  Follow Us on Instagram: OfficeLadiesPod Follow Us on YouTube Follow Us on TikTok To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Let's talk groceries, specifically your groceries with Instacart. You want your groceries just the way you like them, right? Well, the Instacart app lets you do just that. They have a new preference picker that lets you pick how ripe or unripe you want your bananas. Shoppers can see your preferences up front, helping guide their choices. Instacart, get groceries just how you like. Welcome to our second drink of business ethics. I loved this episode.

And we finally got to have Amy Ryan on the podcast. What a fun interview. Yes. Oh, my gosh. She is just the best. She gave us such great behind the scenes details about her time playing Holly Flax, aka Hollis Flax. But that's not all. Listen, we put the word out and we asked you all, what were your favorite moments from the episode Business Ethics? And I just want to say thank you to everyone who responded. It was really fun to read your answers. And there was one particular scene that got a fan mail flurry. Tanish C from India said, So I basically love the opening scene where Michael and Holly are dancing with the headbands on and the binder book and they are singing, let's get ethical, ethical.

I actually laughed so hard. And Karen Y from Ecuador said, it is also her favorite moment, and she has a background catch. Karen says, at three minutes, 24 seconds, you can see two red marks on

Michael's forehead from the headband he was wearing for the dance. But at three minutes 31 seconds, the red marks are completely gone. We must have shot on two different days. I guess. Well, I love this fan mail flurry, and we thought this moment was adorable. We talk about it, but we didn't play it, and I think we should hear it. Let's hear it. Let's get ethical, ethical. I want to get ethical.

Let's get into ethics, yeah. Let me hear your Dundamifflin talk, your body talk. Let me hear your body talk. Woo! All right. Can we just say their idea of inserting, like, new lyrics and trying to make it fit is, let me hear your Dundermifflin talk. Your Dundermifflin talk.

Yeah. It cracked me up. I also just love how Amy Ryan as an actress was just so up. for this bit and just match Steve Corell in his silliness. It was so fun to be on set and watch that. I mean, we got to be in the audience. And the thing when you rewatch it is, there's a good, I don't know, it feels like a few minutes, where they're only dancing and they're not even singing yet. It's pretty great. All right. Another fan favorite moment comes from Chantelle E. She says, my husband has asked me every week since I started listening to the podcast if it was time for this

episode. His favorite moment of the entire series is when Michael finds out that Jim and Pam are engaged. The question is, does Steve improvise tackling Jim or was that scripted? I'm so excited that I'm finally able to ask this question for my husband, exclamation point. There was also lots of all caps in there. Yes, it's true. So, Shantel, we did talk about this moment. when we first broke down the episode. And it was scripted, but we never described how it's read in the script. Which is very funny. So tell your hubby, I went to our shooting draft, and here is the original scripted scene.

And the over-the-top commotion actually originally started with Kelly. Kelly comes into the bullpen and she says, what's everyone talking about? And Creed says, the tall guy got engaged. And then here's the scene description. Kelly screams and falls to the ground uncontrollably. Michael comes in for the day and sees Kelly on the floor. He says, what's going on? Pam quickly with a voiceover jumping in says,

nothing, Michael, just saying hi. Kelly, barely able to get it out, says, Jim and Pam are engaged. And Michael goes to be married. Three question marks, three exclamation points. Michael tackles Jim. Yeah. So funny.

Well, another fan favorite moment was marriage. of his confession. You know, when she shares that she's been sleeping with a hammer mill paper rep for the last six years for lower prices on paper and Outback Steakhouse gift certificates. Sean C. from Maryland said, I like when corporate just doesn't give a shit about what Meredith is doing. And Lindsay S. from Canada also loved that storyline and said, I loved it when corporate said that as long as Dunder Mifflin was getting a discount, they were fine with it. Also, when Meredith shares her barbecue with the office is peak. that tag at the end and everyone is eating Outback Steakhouse and they're all so happy about it.

It's pretty amazing. So thanks for writing in everyone and sharing your favorite moments from this episode. We'll be doing second drinks every Monday. So write in your fan favorite moments over at OfficeLadies.com. And now here is Business Ethics. I'm Jenna Fisher. And I'm Angela Kinsey. We were on the office together.

And we're best friends. And now we're doing the Ultimate Office rewatch podcast just for you. Each week, we will break down an episode. of the office and give exclusive behind-the-scenes stories that only two people who were there can tell you. We're the office ladies. Hi, everyone. Hey, guys. What's up, Ange?

What's up with you and your cute pants? Thank you for saying that. I noticed them right away. Here's the thing. I hit a wall with sweatpants. What? I know. Guys, one of the reasons we started this podcast was because I wanted a job I could do in sweatpants.

Uh-huh. You know, we talked about that a lot early on. Yeah. Well, I counted. after 409 days of wearing sweatpants. I mean, not every single day, but for the most part, for the last 409 days, I would get out of bed and put on sweatpants. Right.

I actually had several pairs of pants that were made of the same material as my sheets. Like a jersey. They're a bamboo. Okay. Made by the same company that makes my sheets. Listen, if I can have pants made by people that make bedding. That's what I thought. It's like I'm just wearing my bed around all day.

I thought I'd hit the jackpot. Okay, so after 409 days of this, I hit a wall. And I was like, I need to wear pants, actual pants. So I went out and I bought a pair of pants, Angela. I'm going to stand up and I'm going to show you. I'm going to describe them to you. I'm going to take a picture. They kind of look like camouflage, but like very sassy cargo kind of pants.

Yeah, that's what I was going for. Sassy cargo. Yeah, I love a sassy cargo. Okay. All right, so here's the thing. I think I'm so used to wearing sweatpants. I'm in the dressing room, and I don't know which size of pants to buy. Because you've been wearing the baggy breeches. That's right. I went back and forth and back and forth, and I went with the bigger size. And now I've been wearing them for what? I don't know, an hour. Now they're all stretched out. They're too big. And look what happens. Now they're falling down. And I've got long crotch. Long crotch, lady. Oh, I see it. You have long crotch. Gals, you know. what we're talking about. When like the seam of your pants is like halfway between your thigh and your

knees, that's long crotch. So what do I do? I've worn them. I can't take them back and get the smaller size. I think I could get someone to alter it in the back. You know, I like the sassy cargo minus the long crotch. What are we doing today? All right. Let me tell you. For those of you guys wanting to know what we're doing today. It is Business Ethics Season 5 Episode 3. Oh yeah. It is really. It is written by Ryan Coe and directed by Jeffrey Blitz. Love it. Here is a summary. Jim reluctantly reveals him and Pam's engagement to the office.

Mm-hmm. We'll discuss. Following Ryan's recent actions, corporate has required Holly to conduct a seminar on business ethics. Michael offers immunity to anyone willing to confess to dishonesty at work. What are we like an episode of Survivor? I know. You get immunity. everything you say. And then we're going to light the torch for you. Well, some things are revealed.

Again, we will discuss. And it's going to cause a rift between Michael and Holly. Yeah. Meanwhile, Jim makes Dwight observe the company's time theft policy. And Meredith provides outbacked steakhouse takeout to the entire office. So that's our summary. Would you like Fast fact number one? I really would. All right. New writer alert. Oh, writer Ryan Coe has joined the staff for season five. Hello, Ryan. Welcome. Hello, Ryan. He was only with us for one season as he left to work on Cougar Town. Oh, we knew lots of folks on Cougar Town. We sure did, busy Phillips. Oh, yeah. He is also a writer and co-executive producer of the Simpsons. Welcome Ryan. Welcome. Fast fact number two, no Pam. Outside of the cold open where you hear Pam's voice, there is no Pam in this episode. But there was Pam. There was, you guys. There was. I filmed a bunch of scenes at art school and they all got cut out.

I know. I saw in the deleted scenes. There's like three. Well, I'm going to talk about them. Okay. As we break down this episode, on office ladies, Pam will be inserted into this episode again. She will live again. She will. And also, Jenna, there was an amazing Ryan Kevin Runner that got deleted for time. And it's great. And I'm going to bring that up. You guys, we're bringing it all back today. in business ethics. Fast fact number three, Amy Ryan. Holly is here today.

We interviewed Amy Ryan all about this episode and her time on the office. Let's hear it. And welcome to office ladies. Hi, office ladies. I'm so glad to be here and to see your beautiful faces and the interior of your closets. Yeah, I was going to say, welcome to our closets. Amy, it's so good. to see you. Holly Flacks. Oh my gosh. Hollis. We found out your name is Hollis. Is that right?

Because it's on your little name placard. Yes. I don't know if I ever knew that. That's a really good tip. Would you have played the character differently? Tell her, I would have been much more, you know, refined. I feel like Hollis is much more refined. And maybe I would have had an accent. Oh. I don't know. I think if your character had been a Supreme Court judge, you might have gone by Hollis. Yes. But you ended up in HR, and so you went with the less formal Holly, maybe. That's correct.

Yeah. When you run HR, you really want to be more approachable, you know, kind of a warm, fuzzy character. That makes sense. Holly was a warm, fuzzy character, and we're in love with her. I am so enamored by Holly and Michael. Jen and I have cried because Michael is, like, finally with someone that here. about him. She's dead.

Well, in watching it, episode by episode, and just four years of Michael not having a partner to suddenly see a woman partner with him and joke with him and like his jokes, I did. I cried. Oh, you know, in preparation for meeting you both today, I rewatched the episode. I hadn't watched the show in a long time. I saved her, like, popping in the room when my daughter was on her third pass of the series. But it is so moving. I think all the characters are so moving.

I know everyone's talked about this before, but that element of the family, you know, it's not a workplace. It's actually a family. And that really comes through so beautifully. But Holly and Michael, I mean, I've always said, you know, there's a lid for every pot. So they finally found each other, but she has a high tolerance, I suppose. for that kind of guy. Well, we always like to ask people, Amy, how did you come to be on the show? And we did a little research.

Paul Lieberstein told us that they came to you. They were huge fans. But that you had simultaneously mentioned to your agent you might like to do our show. Yes. So what was that process? Yeah. How did it go down? That is true.

And the timing was eerie because I did say that's, to my agent. It was soon after the Oscars. And I was like, you know, I'm doing a lot of dramas. And if I have any kind of cachet right now at this moment, I want to do a comedy and I want to do a comedy like The Office, because I was never good at the four-camera sitcom. I just felt too much pressure and it wasn't like, I always feel like characters weren't really rooted in a reality, the way the office was. And that goes back to how I met Paul Lieberstein. We were both employed on The Naked Truth and he was a writer. My agent had kind of reached out, and at the same time, Paul had reached out, I guess, to him.

I don't know who got there first, but it was, I really think it was like about the same week. And Paul had mentioned that he was also a fan of The Wire, as were some of the other writers. So it was kind of a culmination of all those worlds coming together. And did they pitch the character of Holly to you, or did you, like, have a script to read anything? I don't remember reading a script. I remember saying, hearing it was a one episode only and potential love interest, which obviously I knew was code from, we'll see how you do, kid, if we have you back. I remember also, because I was a big fan of the British series, David finally gets a woman who likes him too. So it was loosely based, I think, on her for the first episode.

and then our group took it to a different level. So there was no script that I was privy to, but I knew the kind of general idea of it. What was it like to walk onto the set for the first time? Really weird. It's really weird. It's also then a now I'm a fan of the American version. And you start to know the set, obviously,

from the comfort of your couch or your tablet or whatever it is. You know, when you get there, it's like, oh, everything's smaller. And then there you all were so warm and welcoming. You know, there's always an element of being the new kid in school and how's that going to go down. But, and also you guys at this point are on a really massive, you know, big hit show. And it was the most down-to-earth, welcoming, warm group of people,

like true ensemble that I met. And even to the end, I feel like, you know, you hear all those stories. of shows that become so successful and the bad behavior starts coming out and, you know, but at least I didn't see any of that. And I just thought it was always about the work and you guys really set such a beautiful tone there. Well, you said you rewatched business ethics and one of my favorite parts is when you and Michael do the Let's Get Physical. Yes, that's so funny. I watched that with my daughter, and we watched that scene like two times in a row, just him reaching in trying to hit the play button. And then the two of you running in with those headbands and your dance number.

How did you guys come up with all that? What do we do? Well, the headbands, I have to give credit for wardrobe. I mean, that was pretty wonderful and ridiculous. Just having that visual. The dance, honestly, that's me just following Steve. I anything, you know, I always, anything that I was lucky enough to be partnered, paired with Steve, I was smart enough to get in the sidecar of that motorcycle ride. Like, I'm not going to lead this here. He's going to have a better idea. So that was, that was just me kind of, you know, follow, yeah, literally following his choreography.

Well, I wasn't there because my character was at art school. So I am super bomb. that I did not get to see that done live. Did you guys do like tons of takes of it? You were there, Ann, do you guys remember? It was so hard not to laugh. Like from the minute it started, and when I was rewatching it, Oscar's face says it all. He's in the front. And I was like, I don't want to be in the front. Please don't put me in the front because I knew I was going to get so tickled. And Oscar does this thing when he's trying not to break. You know, we know each other's tales after all those years, where he kind of does this mouth open thing. And that's him. him trying not to laugh. So you go back and watch. Oscar's like, I'm going to. It was so funny.

First of all, being in that conference, you know, that's kind of the most famous part of the set, right? And here we go and someone gets to present something. And it's better when, again, you're paired with someone next to you. But those scenes where I'm alone giving the conference, my hands are like white knuckle. I'm like trying to be like, you know, very casual holding my hands. But if you look closely, my hands are just. just like two iron fists of nerves. That's the other thing. Everyone always asks me, is the office, was that a lot of improv? And I said, no, it was, I remember scripty coming up to me, you know, correcting me for, like, of instead of at, like something really tiny. And I tell people and tell me if I'm wrong.

I was like, it was heavily scripted. And then maybe by the third take, Steve would go off script first and then everyone would follow suit. That's my recollection of it. Would you say that's right? Absolutely. Yeah. And in that, I just think it was, again, like, you guys are so in tune with each other. And no one trying to beat anyone to the punchline.

It was just a constant setup. I thought it was just so perfect. I think that's why people can't really tell between the scripted and when it goes to improv. It was just so perfectly done. I wanted to ask you about those restaurant scenes. Oh, yeah. Coopers. There's that whole runner about the chastity belt where he's trying to explain what a chastity belt is.

Oh, my God. And you're like a chastity belt? I think the really fun part of their relationship is that it's always a surprise when, like, Holly's on board with him, with some joke. And then those moments like the chassis belt where she's so horrified. And yet, so forgiving. You know, here she is this, you know, she's still flirty with this guy and she likes him and not sure where it's going to go. But she's going to give that a pass. You know, always with Steve, it was so hard not to laugh.

It was also like a thrill that sets in. Look, I remember when I was 25, I went skydiving. And I did it where you're strapped to the other instructor. And just as the airplane door opened up and he made me look out, we were about, I guess, 13,000 feet near. And I remember the thought in my head is, okay, I'm going to die or I'm going to have the time of my life. Pick one. And I remember picking, I'm going to have fun. And as nervous as I was, you know, being like in those scenes with Steve, I remember that moment to like, oh, just pick one. Why don't you have fun instead? You know? And certainly with him at the lead, like, we're all going to look good. You know, he's going to take us along for the ride, I feel. But it was so hard not to laugh, like painfully hard to laugh.

But I felt like we were dropped into another place of concentration that kind of pulled it all along, if that makes sense. Yeah. Did you know Steve before? Yeah. I had this minuscule part in Dan in real life that Steve starred in. It was this big extended family comedy. We all, is a whole group of us there on location in Rhode Island. And so we all became friends. And then I think it was about like six months after that film is when the office came up. And I believe they ran the idea by Steve of casting me. And I guess it helped. I knew him from Rhode Island for that little bit.

Well, we always ask everyone if they have any like favorite memories from their time on the show, like any kind of behind the scenes moment or just something that you remember that stood out to you during your time on the office. Oh my gosh. There's so so much. I mean, just in a general note, I would honestly, no exaggeration, I would go home feeling like I worked out a series of sit-ups because my stomach muscles were always in play for laughing so hard. And I just go home, exhausted but happy. And that was a nice feeling. But there's, and speaking of that, like kind of the uncontrollable laughter, there's the episode where Darrell helps me move and he comes. in the car ride, the truck ride.

Yes, yeah. Me, Steve, and Craig, like, hold up in that truck all day. Kind of probably we had a little bit of lack of oxygen, but we couldn't, we just, we were in hysterics and could barely get through the scenes. And it was, that was like one of the highlights of my time there. I was just spending the day with those two guys, just laughing. I mean, I say that, but I'd also be on set and laughing all the time, too.

It was just very new to me. Usually I end up in these dramas where I'm crying all day. So this is a much better way to spend your day. I remember that, too, and I remember my agents asking me if I wanted to do dramas in my downtime. You mentioned you were like, I've done a lot of drama. is I want to do a comedy. Yeah. Like, do you want to take a stab at some drama?

And I was like, I don't think so. I think I'm really liking the jobs where I just laugh all day. Because I'm like in a good mood a lot. So let's just, let's keep doing the comedies. It was, it was like, it was a happy place to work. My only request was if I could ever have a scene where I didn't frown. That's true. You had to frown your way through this comedy.

Well, do you get recognized as Holly Flacks, like when you're out and about? Oh, I do. I do. And it's interesting. I'm sure I'm sure you guys have noticed that there's being recognized when the show was on the air. And then the whole streaming version of the show that has kind of taken it to a whole new level. And everyone's getting younger. Yeah.

my daughter's friends. And so yeah, I do. I still get, I still get recognized. You know, years ago, not that long ago, a few years ago, my family and our really good friends, we went to Scranton because there's this amazing antique store called All Good Things. And it's just a warehouse, a giant warehouse of just every old antique knob, hinge, dresser, door. Toilet. Sign me up, Amy. It goes on forever.

It's really cool. And so we go there and then we're looking for something to eat and we're hungry. And they pull in and I was kind of behind the eight ball on this and we pull into Coopers. Oh my gosh. And I go, oh, no, no, no, you guys, no. I'm pretty, I mean, I don't get harassing, you know, but I'm pretty shy. If someone comes up to me on the street, I say hello and thank you. But I also have a lot of privacy.

people don't always recognize me, but I was like, hell no, we are not going into Coopers. I am Polly from the office. I cannot walk into Coopers. I cannot. I cannot. I cannot. And my one friend, Anne was there, she's kind of naughty. She's like, oh, it'll be so good. We have to. We have to. So they talk me into it, but I go in and I've got my head down and I'm just like waiting. I'm waiting to be treated, you know, like the Beatles here or something. And we sit in a booth and this old tired waitress comes up and she takes our order. And my friend Anne right away, she's like, this is amazing. You know, what's the story here? She's like, oh, well, we've been here for X amount of years.

And it was also used in the set of the office. But, you know, I mean, people used to be excited about that, but they're not anymore. What can I get you? I was like, so offended. Not one person recognized me. I know not one. Not one. And we left.

We gave her a good tip and we left. And I was like so so bummed. But anyway, that's my Cooper story. It's pretty cool inside, though. I think our set decoration did a pretty great job. The real Coopers is pretty cool. Yeah. Well, when people hear this podcast and they realize they might have been at Coopers with Holly Flax

and didn't know it. they're going to be like, what day, what day? Oh, my God. It's part of like a whole Scranton, the office fan tour now. You know, they have like a whole tour and you can go around Scranton and go to all the spots. So maybe don't go back because maybe it will be the Beatles experience. Amy, before you, we're going to come on the podcast, I admit, I googled you, which is a weird thing to do. It's weird to Google someone you know.

It is so weird. It's so weird. And I, you know, had never done that before, Googled you. But I did. And I saw all of your stage work and stage experience, which I knew that you did theater, but I didn't know that you got your first touring job right out of school that you toured with Biloxi Blues. Right out of high school. Yeah.

So did you ever have like that day job? Did you ever have, or were you able to work pretty consistently as an actress right out of school? Yeah, so I went to a performing arts high school in New York, and then a month or so after graduation, I was cast in the touring company of Blexi Blues, and I toured for nine months and thought, well, that's easy. I'll work all the time, I guess. I didn't work for a long time afterwards, but I, after the tour, I was still only like 18, 19, so, you know, I went back home, so I didn't have rent. I was still, you know, my family, we lived in New York, so I was able to afford a life in New York by just being an actor and doing acting jobs until I moved out of the house in my mid-30s. I know, but I, no, yeah, I'm very, I'm very lucky.

I had, I've only ever been an actor, save before high school graduation. I worked in my aunt and uncle's ice cream shop in Vermont when I was 16. But, yeah, acting's been my only job. That's amazing. It's kind of weird. But I, you know, I do think of how any young actor artist moves to L.A., moves to New York from other places or, you know, to Chicago with, I always think of that person like suitcase in hand.

and, you know, room share lists. Like my hat just goes off to them because it's so hard. It's so hard. I don't know how people do it. You know, I was lucky that I already lived in New York and could go home for home-cooked meals and all that kind of stuff. But I'm glad they're doing it somehow. Are you working on anything now, Amy?

I just finished this new first season of this Hulu series called Only Murders in the Building with Steve Martin. and Martin Short and Selena Gomez. And it was, again, like, it was a throwback to, like, again, Jen, like you say, like doing the comedy, like, oh, this feels fun. I'm in a good mood. And certainly shooting through a pandemic, you know, it was, I wouldn't want to be on a heavy drama right now.

It's just too intense. But it was a joy to be around those people during this time. So, but that's it. And I don't know, I don't know what I'll do next, that, you know, even after 33 years, like, I never know what's next. So I'll see what happens. Well, Amy, thank you so much for coming on office ladies and sharing your memories of being on the show. It was so cool to be back in touch with you and see you again. Oh, same here. I really miss you guys. And I hope all so well with your families and I hope to see you in person. Yes, that would be amazing. Jen and I have said we want to do like an office ladies lunch, like call up all the gown, have a lunch. Wouldn't that be so fun? Yeah.

Oh, gosh. Well, let's do it. Let's do it. Thank you so much, Amy. Thanks for having me on your show. I miss you all. And let's hope to see you soon. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp.

You know, we are going to take a moment to celebrate women and all that they carry at work, in relationships, and families. and in the many roles they hold every single day. And we need to remind ourselves about how much we matter and that therapy offers a space for us to take care of ourselves in the way we deserve. Therapy can also be a place to set boundaries and build confidence. Just take care of your own well-being for a change. BetterHelp makes therapy accessible and flexible. Their therapists are fully licensed in the U.S. and follow a strict code of conduct. With over 30,000 therapists, BetterHelp is the world's largest online therapy platform, and it works, with an average rating of 4.9 out of five for a live session based on over 1.7 million client reviews. Your emotional well-being matters.

Find support and feel lighter in therapy. Sign up and get 10% off at betterhelp.com slash office ladies. That's better help.com slash office ladies. Hi, it's me. Jesse Tyler Ferguson. In case you haven't heard, and I don't know how that's possible, you're obviously not seeing my Instagram stories, but I have a podcast. I know, I know, I know. I didn't think there was enough podcasts, especially podcasts hosted by actors. So here I am. It's called Dinner's On Me, and it's actually pretty special to me. It combines two things that I absolutely love, eating and connecting with people. So in each episode, I take an old friend or a friend. new friend, out to a fabulous meal, and as we break bread, we dive into everything from imposter syndrome and mental health to being a new parent, navigating new relationships. It's fun because you truly get to be a fly on the wall for some really intimate conversations. So please, pull up a chair, join us. You can listen to Dinners on Me, wherever you get your podcasts.

I was so great. I love her. I love her. You know, when we got finished with that interview, you guys, I asked her what color were her walls because her room it was like painted all this like kind of dark blue gray color. Kind of a navy blue. It's very cozy looking. I know.

And she's in a red dress and her hair was perfect. I kind of want to get that bob. I don't know if I can pull it off. It was such a cute bob. It was. Well, you know, obviously we're going to put photos from our zoomy zoom in the Instagram. Yeah. So you can see it all.

The wall, the bob, it's coming at you. Okay. Before we get into this episode, I need to share with you who was on. the DVD commentary. Oh. But I'm going to let B.J. tell you. What? Welcome to the commentary on business ethics.

This is B.J. Novak speaking, and this is a very special commentary because I have with me here. Four of the most beloved crew members on the office to give us a behind-the-scenes look at how things go, not just with this episode, but every day for the past 100 episodes. So, seated with me. Why don't we make introductions from my left? Bartankchirian Peter Evangelatos Sergio Zucumann

Alan Mork And here's how it works I know Oh my God I know I know I had the same reaction And their voices are on the whole thing Yes

Oh my goodness I did not think that's I know I know I texted BJ I said BJ I have teared up I have laughed I've had every emotion

Oh guys Okay we should say who they are Okay, so Peter and Vartan, they did our craft services. They provided the cast and crew with snacks, drinks, meals, anything that you could want, and fed us in overtime. We called them the snack masters. Peter was so beloved to us. He was like our grandpa. Yeah. And he took such good care of us. He passed away a few years ago. Our cast and crew were heartbroken. We loved this man. And it was a delight to get to you. hear his voice in this DVD commentary, I felt like I spent, you know, an evening with him when I rewatched it and I texted BJ immediately. And he said, oh, my God, Angela, where is this? Where can I hear it? Where does it live? He said, I'm so happy it made you happy. He said, I'm so happy it exists. And he said that he pitched that Peter and Vartan and Sergio and Allen do this commentary. And people were like, what? No, you're crazy. But he was like, you know, like they are.

Like our sustenance, they took such good care of us. We should say, Sergio and Ellen, they were big time catering, and they fed us lunch and breakfast. They did our big main meals. Yeah. Breakfast and lunch. And Peter and Vartan did everything in between. Yeah. And I really want to share with you what all they talked about on the DVD commentary.

Oh, yeah. They talked about food the whole entire episode. I learned nothing about the actual episode. but I learned what everyone has for breakfast in people's particular request. And it was so delightful. And I think the office fans are going to love this. You've got to say, you have to share. Okay, okay, here we go.

And then I promise we will get to business ethics, you guys. Okay. First of all, we love people's process. How is their day started? What do they do? Sergio and Alan shared that they got to set, very, very early. Well, we knew this. I looked up our call sheets. You guys know I have digital clutter. I have all of our call sheets for years. Yeah. Average cast call time started at 5 a.m.

That meant hair and makeup had to be there at 4 a.m. That meant that Sergio and Alan had to have a full breakfast ready at 4 a.m. Wow. So they would go to bed at 7 p.m. and get up between midnight and 1 a.m. to be at work at 2 a.m. to start cooking. Alan said every morning I was cooking bacon at 3.m.000. a.m. And they kind of joked that he was like Michael Scott. He like woke up and had to start cooking bacon. But you know, they fed breakfast to around 150 people. Yep, because the crew got a hot breakfast. Yeah, everybody, everybody, cast and crew. Sergio and Allen, like, BJ would just mention someone's name and they knew their breakfast order. Oh, say. Okay. Ready? Yeah. Steve would have mushrooms, ground turkey, egg white scramble with a side of ketchup. Okay. Rain would have a veggie scramble

with egg whites and one piece of wheat toast. Jenna, yes, would have two egg whites scrambled with a little bit of cheese. That's true. Paul Lieberstein would have an egg white scramble with onions and peppers with Sergio's famous homemade salsa on the side. We weren't very into egg whites as a cast. I'm discovering.

Keep it coming. Kate had egg white scramble with turkey bacon. Oscar, curveball, grilled cheese with tomato. Amy Ryan, who's our guest this week, spinach and egg scramble. Now, some cast members had their breakfast order become classics because they became so popular. Okay. Okay? So you could order these three.

We've already discussed the Rashida special. Yes. Remember, invented by Rashida, Black Beans, Turkey Bacon, Avocado, Egg Whites, Sergio Sosa, Two Corn Tittias on the side. All right. That's a Rashida. It was the most popular. Okay. Okay.

The Rashida is special. Rishita, inventing the most popular breakfast. In fact, it was like one of Mindy's regular orders was the Rashida. Okay. The Johnny Kaye invented by John Kresensky. Tomatoes and broccoli with egg whites and a little cheddar cheese. Hmm. Sounds right.

I know. Kind of gross. I don't want to eat broccoli first thing in the morning. I don't know. I'm not going to lie. There were, you know, a few times I would cross over here and make up with John. It didn't smell good. It's coming back to me now.

It doesn't smell good. Okay, the Creed special. I learned something. Creed is apparently a big goat cheese fan. He loves goat cheese. In the morning? Oh, yeah. So they said that he would have goat cheese, spinach, onions, and egg whites with green tea.

Oh. Mm-hmm. They also shared the two cast members who were always there the earliest. Oh, let me guess. Okay. Kate and Phyllis. Leslie and Phyllis. Okay. And, you know, I looked at the call sheets. Leslie, Phyllis, me, and Kate were always called in at 5 a.m. Okay? The four of us. I clearly didn't make the early list. But Leslie would order his breakfast at 445. Wow. Yeah. Sergio and Allen also did a huge lunch with multiple meat, fish, veggie choices, salad bar, dessert bar. But they said there was one item they featured just on a whim at the dessert table. And it became incredibly popular. And if they wouldn't have it, people would.

would like get like annoyed. They'd be like, where is it? Can I guess? Yeah. Was it the warm chocolate chip cookie bar things? Yes. Yes. It was the chocolate chip cookie cake. And they served it like hot and melted and kind of gooey.

It was so good. You guys, the chocolate chip cookie cake was Steve Corel's like kryptonite? I don't know. This guy would eat so healthy, but he had to eat this chocolate chip cookie cake. This is one treat. But literally they said they didn't think. much about it. They made it one time. And then everyone was like, where is it? Where is it? They had to make it like every day. Yeah. So now I have to talk about Peter and Vartan. They were the snack masters.

They had kind of like a full kitchen right on the set, right outside the Dundermifflin bullpen. Yep. You know, they had a fridge. You could have cereal. They had milk. You could make your own sandwich. But they would also have a little food bar. And here's what they had to share. Peter talked about how he had been in the business forever. He also said, I thought this was kind of funny, At our cast, we were tea obsessed. He had hundreds of different types of teas. And you might have noticed that I didn't make Sergio and Allen's breakfast list. Because you would never eat an egg in the morning. Because Peter and Vartan got donuts every morning.

So I would go get a donut from Peter and Vartan. Also, BJ liked the Porto's coffee cake. And then Peter said, sometimes he would make you and I sandwiches. He would. And he said he loved doing it and he would put them on a porcelain plate and bring them to us. I'm crying again. I know. I know. He took such good care of us. I can't explain to you like the care with which he would make us a sandwich. It's so silly and simple, but he would. He'd put it on a porcelain plate and he'd always like garnish it with some cute little like fruit or like a little pickles.

into a shape. Yeah. It really was. It was like your grandpa made you a sandwich. It really was. And you felt so love. He was so happy to do it. Yeah.

He said that he would make you a tuna fish sandwich. Mm-hmm. And he'd make me ham and cheese. I cried through this commentary, Jenna. I laughed so hard because Peter and Vartan give each other like such a hard time lovingly. And they're so funny. Alan called him the Middle Eastern odd couple. Because Peter is from Greece and Vartan is from Iraq.

They had a hilarious banter, the two of them. They also talked about their infamous 10 a.m. hot snack. Hot snack. Oh my gosh. Peter said they like to mix it up every day. He said on Mondays, for example, there'd be tacos and burritos. One of the most popular hot snack items was albondaga soup. Well, they talked about that, but they said they're turkey chili.

Oh. They said they're turkey chili. They had to serve twice a week. People wanted it. They loved it. Ed Helms in particular, love the turkey chili, and he came up with a little tip. What is it? Ed, you know, they had garnishes on the side for the chili.

They had shredded cheese and they had onions. Ed would put the raw onions at the bottom of his bowl, add the hot turkey chili on top, and the heat from the chili would caramelize the onions at the bottom. Wow. It became a thing. So, and much like our Dundermifling counterparts, they said the cast and crew had their favorite pizza places to order from, if we went to overtime and we got second meal. Steve loved Mulberry's pizza.

Mm-hmm. And we all loved Barone's pizza. Yes. It was a delight, you guys. I just have to tell you, we loved these men so much. I was lucky enough to work with Sergio again when I guest started on Mindy's show, Never Have I Ever. She still wants Sergio on her projects.

It was so awesome. These guys were our family. Yeah. And they took such good care of us. And if you have ever wondered why the only thing my dad talked about was the food, when he visited set. Listen to this commentary. I loved that.

I loved it too. And I know I went on and on, but I had to share it. I hope everyone else found it interesting because I loved that trip down memory lane. Thank you, Angela. You're welcome. All right. Shall we get into this episode? I guess we can.

I will pull myself together. Yes. This episode starts with Jim and Pam on the phone. Pam is kind of mad because nobody congratulated her on her engagement. engagement. And Jim says, yeah, I don't tell anyone. And then he's like, let's tell him. And he puts Pam on speakerphone. And it goes, I think exactly how Jim thought it would go. Yeah. It ends with Michael arriving and hearing the news and tackling Jim to the floor. We got a fan question from Kyle T. and Peyton M. How was the stunt done where Michael knocks Jim over with a hug? Also, John's face is just

amazing. You know, that is a really hard thing to do to know you're going to be tackled, but keep your body relaxed. And not like wits. Yeah. Not expect the tackle. Well, I wasn't there. I was backstage on a phone, so I didn't see it go down. Angela, do you remember, was there like a mattress or something that they landed on? There is a big blue squishy thing. You know what I mean? A big blue square. It looked like a gymnastics kind of mat, right? Yeah. But it was so funny. I have to imagine. John lost it because John did not do well in scenes like that, especially with Steve. I don't. My memory of it is they didn't do it very many times. Okay. Well, now we're into the episode. It's Ethics Day. Holly has passed out a form. Everyone has to fill out. She's going to be taking this seriously.

She is. She explains that she is going to be running her first meeting. But don't worry. We talked about this with Amy Ryan. Michael's going to help her out. And they're going to start it off with their version of let's get physical. With headbands and dancing and a boombox. Jenna, I worked in corporate America. I have been in Human Resources seminars that we had to go to. I'm telling you they had skits. What?

When I watched this, I had such a flood of memories coming back of sitting in a tiny little conference room. when I worked at this company. And our Human Resources Department, there were two people. They would come in and act out skits of what's inappropriate. We had one guy, his name was Tom, and we had a gal. Her name was Susan. And he'd be like, Susan, that skirt looks really nice on you today. Hey, time to party.

And then Susan would do a face like, huh? And then they'd freeze. And then Tom would say, what was inappropriate in this moment? And we'd all have to raise our hands and be like, He was kind of gross about her skirt. I only had to watch, like, produced videos of weird things. I've never seen a live presentation. Oh, no.

I watched skits. We had a fan question about this scene. We did. From Patricia B. She said, I'm wondering if some of the younger office fans even know the song that Holly and Michael are performing. She wants to know, Angela, did your kids watch this one with you? Did you have to explain the song parody? Isabel watched it with me.

She didn't ask about the song. She thought it was funny. She probably thinks we made it up. Yeah, this was, I guess, for our younger listeners, a very famous song by Olivia Newton-John. Let's Get Physical. And the music video was like her in like an aerobics class singing and dancing with a headband. Jane Fonda had like these workout videos at the time too. This was like a little trend.

Sexy working out. But your sexy workout included tights, leg warmers, high tops, leotard, headband, wristband. Yeah. It was a whole thing. It was. I remember it well. Well, Holly begins her ethics meeting by explaining that there's been some misconduct. She's clearly talking about Ryan.

Who's been hired again? It's so hilarious to me. Yeah. I know. And then she starts going through the results of the quits. Yeah, pretty much. She's got this binder. Yeah. And she's got to go through the binder. The HR binder. Yeah. We had a fan question from Peyton M. In the conference room scene, did Creed and Meredith actually break when Stanley said the meeting was a waste of time or was it scripted for them to laugh? While I looked at the script, it was scripted. The script said, people laugh a lot. That was the. direction in the script. So the meeting isn't going so great. And Michael's like, you're losing them. Yeah. She pulls Holly aside. You are losing them. They expect a lot. Yeah, it's really sweet.

He's trying to help her in this meeting because he really wants her to succeed. So he says, let's get rid of the binder. This is your opportunity to speak up without any repercussions. He's like, guys, what are some things maybe you've done at work to waste time? What have you? to anything or anything you want to share. Yeah, you have immunity. Go for it. Well, during this time, Michael confesses that he didn't work for five days when he discovered YouTube. It made me laugh so hard. He said he watched Cookie Monster sings Chocolate Rain about a thousand times. Did you go watch it? I had to know. Of course. Here's the thing. What? Chocolate Rain, according to its Wikipedia page, was a song by American singer,

Tay Zonde. I went and watched Tays last night. Oh, you did? I did. You watched it as well. Yeah. Yes. So he wrote this song and he uploaded a video to YouTube. It was four minutes, 52 seconds long. He uploaded it, everyone, because I know you want to know, April 22nd,

2007. I remember it went viral. Viral. Like before things went viral. It was ranked the hottest viral video of summer 2007 and it was awarded the 2008 YouTube Award. in the category of music. So this song then became the subject of like parodies, remixes, tributes. It was everywhere.

Even Cookie Monster. Not Cookie Monster. What? We made that up. There was no Cookie Monster sings Chocolate Rain. They wrote that and after the episode aired, people made them. Oh, I didn't know that. Isn't that crazy?

That is crazy. You know, I did go to every version. you could imagine of this song. I looked it up. And I did notice the one where Cookie Monster is singing it. The first comment said, who else is here because of Michael Scott? Yeah, exactly. Well, Michael has opened the door to confession time and people are just letting it fly. Yeah. The big confession comes from Meredith, who says that she has been having a six-year affair with the hammer mill rep in exchange for discounts on our supplies and also outbacked Steakhouse gift certificates.

Bruce Myers. Bruce Myers and Meredith, six years. Now, here's something. Wasn't there in that previous episode, we finally landed the hammer mill rep when they went to that big conference and it was only a few? Remember? I think there's a little continuity catch here. Continuity error.

Yeah. So she's been sleeping with him for six years, but we only just landed him like two years ago. I don't know, Meredith. Show Bible. Show Bible. Sort it out, guys. Yeah. Holly is troubled.

Oh, yeah. Holly is like, this is a serious ethics violation. I have to report this. Jenna, there was one other confession that rattled someone else. What? Ryan made a confession. And Kevin is like, what? This is the beginning of the runner.

Sam, can you play it? Last year, you guys were riding me really hard for the website, and I just peeled out my Z3 and I knocked the mirror off somebody's car. I never said a thing. Wait, what? Kevin's like, what? And then immediately after this conference room scene, Kevin approaches Ryan in the kitchen and confronts him.

You knocked the mirror off of my car. Yeah. Isn't that messed up? Yeah. That guy did a lot of things I'm not proud of. Wait. When you say that guy, do you mean you? I mean the guy I used to be.

I'm Ryan 2.0. And if it makes you feel any better, that guy did a lot of messed up stuff to me too. No, you mean that you did a lot of messed up stuff to you. Look, I feel you. Too. Okay? That guy took no responsibility for his actions.

But are you? you're going to pay for my mirror. If I have to answer for everything that guy did, I'm never going to move on. It was like $200. We're never going to get what we need from that guy. You know my love of Ryan in this rewatch, and I am so sad that did not make it in the episode, but I am so glad it exists. I know.

I showed it to Sam, and Sam was like, I know these people. I know these people. Yeah, that's a good example of Los Angeles. But yeah, so Kevin gets Ryan back by putting his sunglasses, his really nice sunglasses in the toaster oven. Amazing. Melts them. But that was Kevin 1.0. Yeah, he can't be responsible for what that guy did.

That's right. So that was the Ryan Kevin Runner that got deleted because we just ran out of time, but I thought it was so great. It's so good. So now we have the scene where Michael and Holly are going to meet privately with Meredith to discuss her. Liaison. Yes. You know, Michael is trying very hard to help Meredith say the things she needs to say to get out of trouble. Yeah. Meredith is not getting it. She's not getting it at all. And Kate is so funny in this scene. So funny. Well, we do have a classic gym prank. We get a gym prank. Yeah. It's been a bit. And I thought it was so funny. And I can tell that John and Rain were having such a good time. Just because we know them. Yeah. You gave John that prop. That stopwatch? He's loving that stopwatch.

He's loving it. Yeah, Dwight had said in the conference room that he doesn't do anything personal at work. He wastes no time. Waste no time. So Jim's going to show him. He's going to like time every single thing he does. Well, right about now is when we would have gone to see Pam at art school. Mm-hmm.

And I'm going to tell you about it. Okay. So Pam and her classmates, they get to class, and there's a note on the door. No class today. It's canceled. canceled. So her friends are like, let's go get drinks. And Pam's like, I can't.

And her friend Alex, who was played by Rich Summer, says, what do you have to do? You're supposed to be in class right now. We know you don't have plans. So they get her to go to this teaky bar for a little day drinking. And I totally remember shooting this, Angela. We're all drinking out of this big, giant volcano bowl. There's a flame. It's on fire.

Yeah. We had to have a safety meeting about it. And in the scene, two of the other art students, they're trying to decode this text message. They're wondering what to text back. Well, it's like a guy, right? So she's like wanting to text a guy back, but not seem like too into him. You know how you have to write the perfect text back to someone you're into, but you don't want to seem too desperate. Well, Pam is spiraling.

Remember I said in the other episode that we purposely cast people who would seem younger and hipper than Pam? So she would be this fish out of water in art school. Yeah. Well, she's kind of spiraling about that. And she has this great, crazy monologue that she blurts out. Sam, will you play the Pam Tiki bar scene for me? He put a wink at the end. Does that mean something?

It means he's a dork. So how do I write back, you know, showing him that I'm also a dork? Oh, he knows. Don't ask me. I don't even know what I'm doing here. I'm like way older than you guys. I mean, like, I have a fiancé and I had like a tenure plan and like is graphic design, even art. At this point, I thought that I would be married and running my own art company. But I would just put like big LOL, little LOL winky face. Oh, okay.

Okay, I thought that was so interesting. We just got a window into what Pam thought her life would be. She says at this point she thought she would be married and running her own art company. What does she mean by art company? I don't know. It sounds like something like a fifth grader. Yeah, like someday I'm going to own an art company. Does that mean she sells art supplies? Yeah.

What does she mean by that? I don't know. I thought it was so, it was such a window into Pam. I thought. I did too. And, you know, it goes on to show that she drank the whole volcano herself, basically. Yeah. There are more scenes at this bar.

She gets really tipsy. But then she has this really peppy talking head where she says, if she were in Scranton right now, she'd be an alcoholic. But she's not. She's in New York. So she's a moody artist. She loves New York. Well, I was really bummed that these scenes got cut because one of the art students, the guy who you hear trying to help the girl with her text message, was played by one of my very good friends.

in real life, John Cabrera. You might know him because he was a longtime cast member on Gilmore Girls. He played Brian Fuller. He was the bass player in Lane's band. So we filmed all of these scenes at Pam's Art School. They never made it into an episode. He doesn't even have a credit on IMDB for being on the office. Because all his scenes got cut, but we had the best time.

Jenna, have you ever had a volcano? No. Have you? Once. What? Once. I thought we made that up. That's a real thing. Is it on fire? Yes. Sam is nodding. Like, how many have you had, Sam? So that was the most aggressive I've ever.

You are like... Yeah, it's a staple of the Tiki Bar community. Yeah. I've had one. That's all you'll ever need to have. I had one at a bar in Manhattan Beach for a friend's birthday. We got the volcano because my friend's birthday, you know, we were like 25 years old. It's a huge, huge, huge bowl. Okay. It comes on fire. Okay. All these different straws in it. It's usually a mixture of like pineapple or grapefruit or lime juice, maple syrup, several different types of rums. Okay. I felt real gross the next day.

And what's so funny is I had Pam's experience. Like, you're just all drinking it. You can't tell who's had more or what because there's all these straws flopping out of it. And the photos from this evening are real special. We all decided to see if we could do the splits. Oh. Mm-hmm. It was one of those nights. I didn't do the splits. No, you do it. I do it. So, volcano guys, tread lightly. Am I too old to have this experience? I think so. Damn it. You won't feel good the next day. I missed my chance. I started drinking late in life. I know. I really did. I think it's okay that you navigated your life without having the volcano experience. I don't know. I'm having some fomo. Well, now Michael is going to invite Holly to lunch.

Because it's okay if like two attractive people go to lunch, you know, they work together, they're attractive. Yes. They can eat lunch. It's not an official date. And there was a deleted Michael talking head that if it was an official date, Holly would know because it would go like this. No, this is not an official date. When it is an official date, she will be aware of it. There will be a rose.

there will be music and dancing a bottle of red, bottle of white, bottle of water, I've drink more water, some whispered conversation, some giggling, little wine, we head back to her place. I will skip ahead to protect our dignity, but

we make hard, Love. And then we fall asleep on her line high to the sound of the full moon. And then chocolate chip pancakes. Okay, I haven't had a volcano, but I've had that date. You've had that date. I've had that date. That's a good date.

I just want a shirt that says hardcore love. You got to fall asleep to the sound of the moon. You do. You do. Oh, well, he suggests that they go to Cooper's restaurant, and I've got some good information to share about that. So why don't we take a break and we'll come back. Great. All right.

We are back. Michael and Holly have gone to lunch. We got fan questions from Kelly W. Sammy B. and Carolyn P. What is the restaurant that Holly and Michael went to? Angela, you saw the outside shot of this restaurant. Yeah, I've been there in real life. It is a real restaurant in Scranton called Cooperin. Cooper's Seafood House.

Mm-hmm. And we did not go to Cooper. So we used a shot of the outside. The interior, I got all the scoop from Jamesapedia. Jamesapedia is back. And Amy Ryan said they did an amazing job. Amazing, right? I looked at pictures online of the real Cooper's, and I compared them to screenshots because

that's what I do now, I guess. Yeah. It is that. Yeah. And we really congratulations to a. our set designers, they did a great job redressing this. What did James Epidia have? James Epidia said that we shot the interior at Clancy's Crabbroiler in Glendale, California, that we started shooting at 8 a.m. And there was a note on the call sheet. That said, the restaurant will be open for business at 11 a.m.

So they had three hours to film all of those restaurant scenes. And I asked him, I said, now when it says they're to open back up at 11 a.m. Does that mean we have to be done filming and get all our stuff out? Because we changed the look of the restaurant. And he said what we would normally do is we would get in there really, really early and dress it, do our scenes and get out as much as we can by 11 o'clock. But they would go back the next day to like do a full cleanup. So the patrons that day ate in a kind of hybrid restaurant of Clancy's crab broiler slash Cooper Seafood. Say that 10 times fast. I could barely say it one. Crab broiler. Clancy's crab broiler. Well, here's a little something about Coopers.

All right. Brian Baumgartner and I went there in 2007 in Scranton. If you go to Cooper's Seafood House website online, there are a bunch of photos in their gallery section of Brian and I. I saw them. One in particular, I am barefoot and standing on top of a table. Oh, I missed that one. It's a good one. I'll put it in our stories.

Clearly, Brian and I were there to have a good time. And we did. We had a blast. Well, this scene originally started with Michael ordering for he and Holly. Yes, he was going to be fancy man on a date. He said this restaurant was business romantic. Here's what he ordered. We'll have the chowders to start, then the lobster feast for two.

and do you have a house red? And then he wants you to know, house makes a great red. Yes, I feel like, where did he come up with that? He heard that somewhere. Someone was like, the house wine is very good. The house makes a great red. And now he's like, he thinks the house is the winery.

Yes. Well, Holly says she just wants a chef salad, no dressing. With an iced tea. Yeah, she's not going to have any house red. And then the waitress says to Michael, do you still want the two lobsters? And Michael says, yes, yes, I do. Because now he's a little embarrassed.

So later in the scene, when you see Michael and he's got two lobsters and a big bowl of soup and a red wine, this is why. Yes, it's at 13 minutes, 44 seconds. You'll see how he ordered double. Incidentally, on the Cooper's menu, there is a recurring Tuesday special called Twin Tales and a cup of soup. And it is two lobster tails and a bread bowl of soup. And I am dying to know if this Tuesday special predated this episode of the office or if they created this as a special after Michael ordered two lobster tails and a bowl of soup. I don't know how to find out. Well, we'll have to go.

Anyone? Cooper's, anyone. Yeah. Well, here's the thing. We are going to Scranton. We are. I can't wait. Should we order two lobster tails and a bowl of soup and House Red?

Yes. We're going to do something. So much eating in Scranton. I know. Like the bulk of our trip there is just eating our way through Scranton. I know. Well, this lunch, it just is not going well. They cannot get on the same page about what to do with Meredith. They can't. Michael was trying to just connect with Holly, get to know her. He asked her, you know, about where she grew up, Des Moines. We find out she's from Des Moines, Iowa. Mm-hmm. Right. Holly is being business. This is a business lunch. And she feels gross about Meredith. They have this. this couplet of dialogue that really sums it up. Holly says, I'm saying that Meredith's behavior is unethical and a little icky, and I don't think I want to work in an environment where that sort of

conduct is tolerated. Michael says, well, you have to tolerate a lot when you're a part of a family. And Holly delivers such a low blow, if you know Michael. She says, it's not a family. It's a workplace. Oh my gosh, the look on his face. Like, how do they come back from this? Meanwhile, back at the office, Jim is really trying to trap Dwight into wasting time. He's trying to get him to have personal conversations. He tries to explain an episode of Battlestar Galactica to Andy, purposely getting everything wrong and inserting all kinds of other characters. All kinds of other characters. He says it's like the crazy monsters and stuff.

There's Klingons and wookies. He says there's a guy named Dumbledore. They're trying to get a ring back to Mordor. This is triggering every button. in Dwight. I loved Rain in the scene where he just was. And I also just loved the way John would hold up the stopwatch. Oh yeah. They were doing this beautiful, like, comedic dance. It was so good. It was so good. You know, we had a fan point out. Lindsay H. said, I am so impressed with the camera focus when Jim is talking to Andy about Battlestar Galactica slash Star Wars slash Harry Potter slash Lord of the Rings slash Star Wars. Anyway, she says the camera focuses on Jim, then Dwight, and back and forth so quickly and flawlessly. She just wanted to give kudos to our camera operators. Yeah. Yeah, because I mean, John and Rain are doing this dance,

but they're in it with the camera operator, and that was flawless. I agree, Lindsay. Me too. We also had a fan catch from Justin S. Jenna, I know you and Phyllis are both from St. Louis, and I'm a big Cardinals fan myself, and I couldn't help but notice that there is a freebird on Phyllis's desk over Dwight's shoulder. And I was just wondering, how did the free bird get there? Guys, I texted Phyllis about it. Yeah? We don't know.

She said, oh, maybe that was when David Fries and Matt Holliday came to visit. And I was like, no, they haven't come to visit yet. I'll tell you guys that story later. That was amazing. You guys were so excited. And I know they hadn't visited yet because Ellie was with us when they visited. So Phyllis and I went back and forth and she's like, I didn't bring it in. She said, I don't know who put it there.

I didn't put it there. Phyllis didn't put it there. We don't know who put it there. Well, Justin, I'm sorry. I'm going to try to get to the bottom of it, you know, answer pending. Yeah. Jim has a talking head that Dwight hasn't stopped working for a second. He even sneezed with his eyes open, which Jim was like, I didn't know that was possible.

You guys, he peed in a soda bottle. He peed under his desk. I mean, he is not going to waste any time. I had to know if you can sneeze with your eyes open. You can't. You can. What? Yeah. Mythbusters did a whole story on it. Mythbusters. And I watched it late last night when I suddenly had to know. We both went on two random tangents. Just wait for mine. Is yours about the average amount of time someone has sex? Because I went on that tangent too. Yes! Yes! All of a sudden, Dwight is like not wasting time, not wasting time. And then he comes back and Jim is like 19 minutes and 48 seconds. What were you up to? And Dwight is like none of your business, basically. And then it cuts to Angela Martin buttoning her blouse. Did you read the research on Business Insider? I read several articles at like midnight last night. Me too.

Our search history. Oh my God. Delete our search history. First of all, the one research I read about was fascinating because they gave 500 couples. Yep. Stopwatches. It is as awkward as it sounds. They had to hit start and stop.

I don't know how we talk about this. But maybe parents, if you're listening with your kids. Earmuffs for 30 seconds. Earmuffs. Yeah. They had to record their sex time. over a four-week period. Yeah.

And they had to press start on the stopwatch at the moment of penetration. Oh, God. And they had to press stop at ejaculation. We read the same article. Oh, my God. You know what? I found amazing is the range was from 33 seconds to 44 minutes. Yeah.

That's a huge, huge variation. It is. And then what was really interesting to me was I read this whole article by a sex therapist who, after doing a bunch of research, broke down the ideal amount of penetration time in a sex act. I mean, this is insane. I told Lee all last night everything I'd read. He's like, how are you sharing this on office ladies? I was like, I don't know, but I found it so fascinating. I know. So what she found was that in surveying the person being penetrated, that their ideal amount of penetration time in sex was anywhere from five to 11 minutes. But all of sex, they all wanted more than just penetration. So she deemed that like the ideal amount of sex encompassing more than. just that moment would be around 19 minutes and that it should consist of 10 minutes of foreplay and nine minutes of actual intercourse that she felt this was the bullseye after all of her research.

Okay. Well, something I discovered in my research is that of these 500 couples surveyed, the average time was 5.4 minutes. And this was true across continents. I mean, literally, it's a global thing. And this got me to thinking, 19 minutes and 48 seconds. Yeah. I did the math.

I think it took them six minutes to get down to the warehouse. Six minutes to walk down a set of stairs? Or take the elevator. It's not close. They have to go in the elevator, our stairs, and they have to go down the corridor through the warehouse to that back room, open it up. All right, so six minutes to get there. They need six minutes back.

That leaves them six minutes in the middle. Oh. I think they had six minutes to shag. I mean, I think what we've discovered in all our research is you can have a really satisfying shag in six minutes. By the way, this article went on to the evolution of sex. Why is there thrusting? It was fascinating. I was fascinated.

Oh, the things we have learned. And shared with you all. So you're welcome. Well, let's get back to this Michael Hawley story. Okay? This whole lunch has really strained things between Michael and Holly. When he gets back, he has a talking head where he says he won't even ride the elevator with her. And then he throws her leftovers in the trash.

Yeah. And then up in the kitchen, he's pouring himself some coffee. She puts her cup out. Not only does he not pour coffee in her cup, he takes the whole pot and walks out of the kitchen. She called Dundra Mifflin a workplace. And it is his family. And you do not do that. You do not.

If Holly wants to use the copier now, she's going to have to wait for Michael to copy a plaque off the wall first. Yeah. Well, Holly has a talking head. Things are tense. People are suspicious of her. Her best friend in the office won't even speak to her. So now we have a little window into Holly. She really sees Michael as her best friend.

Now, Angela, in the script, there was a scene. here where Michael calls Toby. Yes. For help with Holly. Yes, it's in the deleted scenes. Oh, guys, it's so good because Toby basically says at the end of all of this, oh, well, Michael, I think Holly's doing the right thing. And in fact, now that you've told me, I'm obligated to report this Meredith incident

to HR as well. Yeah. But that's how desperate Michael is, is he's going to call Toby, who I guess is still in a hospital in Costa Rica? And he's still not nice to him. He calls Toby for help, but he's still not nice. This is not the last HR rep that's going to be involved. Kendall from corporate has called, and Holly's going to come in Michael's office, and they're going to discuss it with Kendall. Yeah. We had a fan question from Megan Q. Who voices Kendall from corporate HR? Kendall was played by John Hartman. Now, the role of Kendall was first mentioned in the episode

the job when David Wallace mentions his dislike for the HR rep Kendall during Jim's job interview in New York. Wow, that's a major callback. I know, but we also brought him up again in weight loss, I guess. And here's the thing. Kendall is going to come back two more times this season. He comes back in person in stress relief and company picnic. He's always played by John Hartman. You might recognize John, he had roles in Mad Men, Arrested Development, The Good Place, Blackish, Space Force, and Monk. Oh, there it is. Of course. There it is. Well, you think Kendall is going to get Holly's back, right, and agree with her. But instead, he just shuts her down, says he doesn't really see this

as a huge infraction, and what she needed to do was to get everyone through that binder. That was her job. Yeah. We just needed you to get signatures. Are you able to get signatures or not? Because every other branch got signatures. And I think Michael feels badly for her in this moment. I feel badly for her. I do too. She's doing the right thing and corporate doesn't have her back. So Holly is just going to go out to the bullpen and say, hey, guys, I have to finish this ethics training. She has to finish reading from the binder so she can say she did it. No one is giving her any respect. Well, Michael's going to step up.

Yeah. Because he does feel bad for her. So he goes out there and he goes, if you don't get in there, no, no, he like loses it. It's so funny. Everyone goes in. She reads from the binder. And the look on Michael's face as she's like reading from the boring binder.

He's in love again. Well, I don't think he ever fell out of love. They had their first spat. I guess they did. Yeah. Because Holly looks appreciative. They're both like, Oh, okay. We're back.

We're going to get through this. Yeah. At the very end of this episode, we have a tag. Everyone's in the break room. They're eating steak that was clearly provided by Meredith. We had a fan question from Kelly W. Okay, Kelly, what is it? During the last scene when everyone's eating steak in the break room, what is everyone

actually eating? Is it prop food or actually real expensive steak? And Savi A wants to know, Angela, what were you eating, Cindy? your character is a vegetarian. I was eating potatoes. That's what it looked like to me. I was eating potatoes. That's something we thought about.

One of the things that Peter and Vartan shared is that our prop food was amazingly good food. Oh, yeah. That they didn't give us, like, kind of crappy food to eat in scenes. And Peter and Vartan would work with props, but I would have to think that Phil Shea and his team got us really good food from a restaurant. That was going to be my guess. Whenever I ate food in a scene, it was delicious. Yeah. So it was probably some really good steak. Yeah. What a day at work. Hey guys, come in and eat these steak and ribs for an hour.

Angela, you can have these potatoes. Sorry, Ange. Well, there you have it. That's business ethics. Yeah. Thank you so much to Amy Ryan. And thank you to James O'Carry for giving me the lowdown on Coopers. And thank you to B.J. Novak for pitching Peter and Vartan and Sergio and Allen to do the DVD commentary. That was just so wonderful. If you guys love the show, you'll love these commentaries. Well, I think on that note, you might go have a volcano. And I hope all of you guys have some hardcore love in your life for approximately 19 minutes. Or an average of six minutes. That would be fine. See you next week. Bye, guys. Thank you for listening to Office Ladies' Second Drink. This episode was initially created in collaboration with Earwolf. Office Ladies is a presentation of Odyssey and is produced by Jenna Fisher and Angela Kinsey.

Our senior producer is Matt Beagle. Our Second Drinks episodes are produced by Molly Nugent. Our audio engineer is Sam Kiefer. Odyssey's executive producer is Leah Reese Dennis. Office Ladies was mixed and mastered by Bill Shultz. Our theme song is Ruppertree by Creed Brow. Lady, have you ever invested in something that seemed really amazing at first, but then did not live up to the hype? I once got this kind of fancy jacket that looked amazing in the store, but then I wore it out once,

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So cut the bull spend. Advertise on LinkedIn, the network that works for you. Spend $250 on your first campaign on LinkedIn ads and get a $250 credit for the next one. just go to linkton.com slash office that's linkedin.com slash office terms and conditions apply