Office Ladies - The Paper Ep 8: Church and State

Episode Date: February 25, 2026

This week on Office Ladies 6.0 Jenna and Angela break down the eighth episode of The Paper, “Church and State.” When a massive sewer clog exposes thousands of not-so-flushable Man Mitts, Ned clashes with Ken over corporate loyalty versus journalistic integrity. Meanwhile, Esmeralda takes stage-mom energy to a whole new level during her son’s commercial audition, and Mare uncovers a very incriminating reply-all paper trail. Along the way, Jenna and Angela share behind-the-scenes tidbits from director Matt Sohn, discuss infamous sewer clogs, and explore the “grey rocking” method. So maybe don’t flush that wipe, think twice before hitting “reply all”… and enjoy! Office Ladies Website - Submit a fan question for Around the Town, Chit Chat, The Paper & Second Drink favorite moment: https://officeladies.com/submitaquestion  Follow Us on Instagram: OfficeLadiesPod Follow Us on YouTube Follow Us on TikTok To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

I'm Jenna Fisher and I'm Angela Kinsey. We were on The Office together and we're best friends. And now we're doing the ultimate Office Lovers podcast just for you. Each week we will dive deeper into the world of the office with exclusive interviews behind the scenes details and lots of BFF stories. We're the Office Lady 6.0. Howdy. Okay.

I have been dying to ask you guys something. What? And by the time this episode comes out, this is going to feel like such. old news. But also, you know, sometimes when you're like a busy parent, you're running around and you're working and you're doing the things, it takes you longer to get to things that like the whole rest of the world is already done. Oh, is this a pop culture something? It is. It's pop culture. What is it? Late pop culture. Oh, that's my favorite. We have a podcast where we discuss pop culture, but like way after it's past, it's prime. Yes. Let's call it late to the party. I love it.

Right. Here's my late to the party. What? Have any of you watched Heated Rivalry? I saw the first episode. I haven't, I'm... You watched the whole first one now? Yes, same. Yeah.

One episode. I just started because I'm late to the party. Yeah. Sam, Matt? No, I haven't. It's really good. Sam, it surprises me that you have not. I know.

I'm a very bad bisexual man. I'm very... I'm being reprimanded by multiple groups and multiple text threats. I will just say the two characters are both so interesting. Yeah. And they have their own sort of like story of how they got to this place and their family dynamics and the pressure on them as hockey players at that level. And just all of it is just really well done.

I'm watching it. You're watching it, Matt? Yeah, I want a little more hockey. That's my one complaint. Oh, I think a lot of dudes say that. Yeah. But I feel this way about any sort of sports adjacent. movie. I always want just like a little more sports. You want more sports. Just a little more.

The hockey element is not on the ice hockey, but much more about the machine behind how hockey happens and how you get on a team and then like all the different. The business of the sport. Yeah. But I do feel like everything we're talking about right now is very much like focusing on the coffee mug in John Wick's kitchen. and it's kind of leaving the hot sexy time. Yeah. I mean, there's a lot of hot sexy time. It's mostly hot sexy time. Or the anticipation of hot sexy time are the buildup time. Yes.

This is very well described. There are some pretty incredible specimens, those guys. Oh, what do they say? They're snatched. No, that's old ladies that get facelifts. The guys can be snatched. Oh, they can? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Like six-pack, abs. Do you use the phrase? Do you just use the phrase perfectly correctly? Oh my gosh. Where's my confetti? I used to phrase correctly. Are you going to watch more episodes? I hear episode five is where it all happens.

Are you at episode five yet, Matt? I mean, a lot has happened before that. Well, I guess episode five is the one where people gasp. I've gasped a ton already. Okay, yeah, I'll keep going. So pretty much I only have an opportunity, like everyone's while to watch something by myself. Same. And the kids have been wanting to watch stranger things.

So we're doing that as a family. Yeah. So then I'll have to fine squeeze in my heated whiteberry somewhere else. Sam, please let us know if you start it. Oh, I will. Okay. Well, I loved that late to the party segment. And now it's time for our fan chit chat question of the week.

This is coming from Charissa D in Queen Creek, Arizona. Hi, Angela and Jenna. I was wondering if there is. a specific nostalgic smell that instantly puts you in a good mood. So, for example, I'm a native Arizona born and raised, and it doesn't rain very much here in the desert. But when it does, there is a very particular smell that comes with it. And the smell is from the creosote bush. and the rain kind of activates those oils that are in the bush and on the leaves and creates this very like strong desert rain smell.

And if you've ever been in Arizona during monsoon season or any other rainy day, you probably have smelled it. And some people really like it and some people don't. But for an Arizona native, it's very nostalgic. It's very comforting and it instantly lifts my mood. And I'm just happy when I smell that smell. And so I was wondering if you guys had something like that, maybe from your childhood or adulthood that is nostalgic to you

and immediately puts you in a really good mood. I loved this question. This is one I picked. I loved learning about this bush that makes the smell in Arizona. I just found this so relatable because I think smells really do transport you. So I had a few. Can I just jump right in?

Yes, please. So you guys, the thing that takes me back to childhood, not only memories from my own, but also memories of raising Isabel when she was little, is the smell of Play-Doh. Like, you know that smell? Yeah. You open up a fresh can of Play-Doh. it has such a distinct smell. And it just always makes me think of when she was little.

And it was such a precious time. We would just make all kinds of stuff with Play-Doh. Were you ever tempted to take a bite you or her? Yes, both of us. It's got that little tempting thing to it. Yeah. And then you know you can make your own Play-Doh, which I did as well. So there's that smell.

But much like Teresa, there is a smell that immediately makes me think of our family farm. and it's also a plant. It's called Texas Sage, and it's a type of plant. And when I go to the farm, and Jenna, you've got to go to the farm with me. I really want that to happen. We've talked about this as a goal that you're going to come to the farm, and I'm going to go to St. Louis with you. Yes.

But I used to ride in the back of the pickup truck on the farm, because, you know, there was no major road. You're just on this little dirt road on the farm, and my grandparents would let us kids all ride in the back of the truck. and that smell as you drive through the pasture of that sagebrush is so distinct. And I would just breathe it in. And there's just nothing for miles. It felt like I was taking all this fresh air and goodness into my body.

I love that. Yeah. What about you? I had nothing come to mind. What? You know smells from growing up? I clearly need to smell more. I just thought of who doesn't love fresh-baked cookies or who doesn't love the smell of their mom's special dinner on Christmas or, you know, like I...

You sort of had some general thoughts. Yeah, but I really tried to think about like a specific smell. I mean, things that came to mind were Old Spice after shave. That's what my dad wore when I was a little kid. My grandpa wore it. So that brings up great memories. But weirdly, like I thought of smells like the mixture of oil and gasoline that you smell when my dad would gas up the boat. Yes, that's what we're talking about.

Yes. You know? You're doing it. Am I? You're doing it in real time. You're like attaching a smell to a memory. Yeah. But every time I smell gas, I don't think of being.

on the lake as a kid. But there are smells, I guess. But I feel like I need to tune into the aromas of my life. Sure. I'm going to. Be more attention to the smells around you. Well, you know, they talk about if you are having a hard time being present, touch and smell are two of the things that can, you know, in some meditations I've done,

they're like, what do you smell? Mm-hmm. Okay. What do you feel right now? All right, Sam. All right. And this answer, I want to keep in mind, you guys, you asked me this question. Oh, my gosh.

What are we in for? There is a tree from my childhood and growing up in North Carolina, and outside of North Carolina called the Calorie pear tree. And it smells like cum. It smells like. The cum tree. Yes. Thank you.

How did you know instantly what you was talking about? Thank you for making me not seem crazy. Sam, we have one in our neighborhood. Okay. We have a cum tree. It's a, the technical term, it's a calorie pear tree. They're an invasive species. They're banned in a couple states, but yeah, they smell like cum.

It's a really. A really overpowering smell. It's the coconut water of aromas. Yes, yes, it is. Basically. Wow. I've never heard of this tree. Yes.

You'll know it. You will know it. You will know it. There's a certain time of year that when we walk in our neighborhood, you're like, there it is. Yep. Yeah. How do we have that?

I don't know. Someone planted it illegally, apparently. I guess. I know 100% what you're talking about. So that tree makes you think of your childhood. Yes, makes me think of North Carolina. Yeah. Well, I'll let you know when it's blooming in my neighborhood and you can come by and

want to have a smell. Think of home. Matt. Yeah, I thought my. I thought my. I thought mine was risque. I was going to say Clinique Happy because my first ever girlfriend wore Clinique Happy. And it's so powerful.

Like I some, I don't know, mom at some school event was wearing Clinique Happy at a thing recently. And I was like, I'm sorry, are you wearing Clinique Happy? And it really took me right back there. It really rattled you. You're like, oh, wait. I was like, I need to leave. I'm going to pass out. Yeah, that takes me back to early high school.

Yeah. Oh, my gosh. That's amazing. All right. Well, Terissa, thank you so much for that question. I loved it. Why don't we take a break? And when we come back, we're going to be breaking down episode eight of the paper, church and state. All right, this is episode eight of season one of the paper, written by Ben Philippe and directed by Matt Sown. Yay! And we reached out to Matt Sown. You guys know listening that Matt was our camera operator on the office. He also directed many episodes. and he sent us in some behind the scenes little tidbits that we'll share throughout this episode.

Let me hit you with a summary. Ned's past as a high-pressure toilet paper salesman comes in handy when mayor uncovers a story that pits the truth teller against its corporate owner. Meanwhile, as Morelda becomes a stage mom to help her son book a commercial. That was so cringy. We'll get to it. We have a cold open where Ned is sharing that he enjoys arriving early to work to review stories and catch up on emails. And as he's going through sort of like this storage area where there's all these files of papers, he discovers mayor has been sleeping at the office.

Yeah, there's an issue with her plumbing. She hasn't been able to bathe. And Ned notices she really smells. My favorite line in this entire episode and I need to text Chelsea. about it is mayor's response to Ned when Ned says, God, what's that smell? And Mayor goes, I'm doing what I can. She's like so defeated. She's like, she doesn't have anywhere to bathe. Well, Ned's going to offer to let her go over to his place and take a shower, but please don't use the nice shampoo. Ned? I mean, I stand with Ned. What? Well, I mean, if you've got a really

expensive shampoo, you know, maybe like save that for yourself. I mean, maybe you don't want to share it on a regular basis, but like a single shower. Okay. She's going over there one time. Okay. Let her just use the shampoo. I think, I don't know. Well, I don't know if you notice, but Merritt is wearing a t-shirt, sort of like a vintage looking tea with a kind of a cowboy on it. And it says Sturgle Simpson. And I didn't know. if that was a real person or I'm like, maybe it's a business. I don't know. Is it a band?

It's a guy. Is he a singer? Yes, and he's so good. Oh. I asked Chelsea about it and she said early in her conversations with Kathleen, the costume designer, they talked a little bit about Mayer's musical tastes as part of her character discussions. But ultimately, this shirt was Kathleen's idea. And Chelsea says she loves it because she's a big fan.

So I'm like, I got to look this guy up. up. I looked him up. He's amazing. Talk about late to the party again. I'm obsessed now. I'm listening to him all the time. Yeah, I'm going to as well. He reminds me of like old country, like Whaling Jennings, like that whole vibe. That's who he gets compared to. Yeah. Well, now we're going to get into the episode. Everyone is out investigating this giant clogged. They're literally like man on the street. They've got their notepads and their pencils and Nicole's there and Maher's there and Oscar and Barry. there's a huge truck, like trying to unclog the sewer, right? Yeah, there's like, yeah, all these city vehicles trying to figure out what's going on.

What's going on? It turns out Mayer's entire neighborhood has been affected by this giant clog. And Oscar has a talking head where he says, Ned's really excited. This is going to be a big story. Barry is kind of ticked off because this is also affecting his girlfriend's apartment. And now she, I guess, is bunking with him and he doesn't like that. Yeah. I want to point out this entire time that Oscar is talking.

from one minute 58 seconds to two minutes and 27 seconds, he's holding a huge burrito. Who can eat next to a sewer clog? I mean, who wants to? That's what I mean. I know. Now, he never takes a bite of it. It's just a prop he has to hold the whole entire time. Yeah, but I feel like as soon as he's done talking, he's going to lay into this what looks

like a giant breakfast burrito. Mm-hmm. I just found myself just waiting for him to take a bite of this. the burrito. It doesn't happen. At least not in the broadcast version. No. And we should remind people, we're watching the broadcast version because it's the one that's running on NBC that's accessible to everyone. Yes, it's free. Yes. Well, Esmeralda is now going to arrive to work and there's like this long line of people sitting in the hallway by the elevator banks. It looks like moms with their kids because they're holding auditions for the Kid Mitz commercial. Can I tell you my favorite Esmeralda line?

She says, why are their children and their mothers everywhere? Is Group C boarding on a Southwest flight? Why is she going to throw shade at Southwest? I don't know. She doesn't fly Southwest, clearly. I'm familiar with Group C boarding on a Southwest flight. I'm familiar with Group A because Josh does Early Bird. Yeah, we try to do that.

You don't always get it. Well, you got to be quick. Well, now Southwest has assigned seats. I know. How do we feel about it? I don't, I... I just booked myself on a Southwest flight, and I was able to pick an aisle seat,

and I got, like, super excited about it. I love that. That's incredible. You know what? Being able to pick ahead of time? You like it? Yes. Yeah.

I hate the free-for-all. I like picking my seat. The free-for-all stresses me out. It's like trying to make sure you and your friends get good seats at the movies. Yeah. And then someone's going to give you the starky side eye because maybe you have to put your hoodie on a seat

because your friend isn't boarding in your group. Exactly. Yeah. No one's ever satisfied. I don't need that stress. Yeah. We're for it, I guess. Okay, back to this episode.

Ken has this talking head where we learn that Softys has had this amazing success with a product called man mitts. They kind of look like toilet paper gloves you use to wipe your butt. Yeah. He's wearing them in the talking head and they're like white gloves. Yeah. Yeah. The idea is that you put these things on your hands and then you wipe after you go number two. Right.

Did you know this is a real thing and that they're called shittins? No. Yeah. They're available on Amazon and they were designed for parents to use while wiping their kids' butts. Like particularly if you have like a young child and they have like a big blowout, you can use a shittin. I want to know the like pitch meeting for the title of the name. I don't know. It's memorable. Shittins.

They cost about a dollar per shittin. Are they flushable? No. They are labeled as disposable but not biodegradable or flushable. So they're going to live forever. Well, isn't everything technically disposable? Yes, because that means it's single use and you throw it away. Right.

But I mean, literally anything can be disposable if I just dispose of it. Like, I could use a washcloth on my kid's butt and then just throw it away. Yeah. And so becomes disposable. I mean, my purse. Let's say I don't want my purse anymore. Disposable. Disposable.

Exactly. So, but this is, it's a big selling point on the Shitton's website is that they are disposable. But I just wanted to say. That is like some marketing trickery. Well, I asked Greg, if Shitton's, inspired the man mitts or the kidmits. And he said no, he had never heard of shittens. He said they were inspired by food service gloves.

And that's how he described them when they were writing this episode. So I just think it's interesting that Greg independently thought of a poop wiping glove. I'm not surprised by it. He like probably in another life would have been like some kind of inventor. Yeah. He always has ideas about things like that. It's true. Ken shares that him and Ned have had a few heated debates about how to best get the word out about the mann mitts. We have a flashback to the day before. And I love this dialogue. Ned says, he's really ticked off at Ken. He's fired up. He says, I'm not calling your ass wiping glove the penicillin of personal hygiene. Yeah, so they go back and forth and Ken says something, Angela, about like, oh, just because

the corporate office owns this item, you're not going to write about a glowing review of it. And Ned's like, you're correct. We have to have a separation of church and state. We have to separate these two entities. Yeah, that might come back to bite them in the butt later. we'll get to it. So now we're out on the street and Mary and Nicole are watching

this really disgusting giant, massive clump of stuff getting pulled out of the sewer. And Nicole says, what does that look like to you? Dun, dun, dun. Guess what it is? Well, they took pictures back in the office.

They're showing them to Ned. And it's the man mitts. Yeah, thousands of them. You know, this got me Googling. I hope no one has eaten recently, but I did deep dive the biggest sewer clog in history. And it's called the Whitechapel Fatburg, and it was found in a sewer below Whitechapel in East London in 2017. What was it? Well, it was a combination of cooking fat, wet wipes, and other.

other sanitary products. Oh, God. It was 250 meters long, which is about two and a half American football fields. Oh. And it weighed 130 tons or about the same as 11 double-decker buses. Oh, my gosh. The term Fatberg was first used to describe the rock-like lumps of cooking fat that used to wash up on British beaches

because people would pour their cooking fat down the drain. But now it's been adopted by sewer workers to describe sewer clogs caused by people pouring their grease down the drain and then it's sort of like coagulating with other things that aren't degrading quickly. London has had a lot of them, but this Whitechapel-Fatburg was the biggest.

It took two months, seven days, a week to clear it. Jeez. And you might be asking yourself, can I see the Fatberg? Wasn't, but okay. You can. I was. It's been preserved by the London Museum and it's on display.

Wait, that's part of their permanent collection. It's like 11. A section of it. Okay. Not the whole thing. I was like, that's like a monolith somewhere. Also, it has changed over time. Good.

Mm-hmm. So when they first received a piece of it, because they asked, can we have a piece of it? They were trying to figure out how to display it because at first it was like full of bacteria and toxic gases. So they had to like air it out, dry it out. And they kind of thought like, okay, I think it's good now. So they put it under glass. But I guess it still had some moisture in it because it started to sweat. Oh, God.

Don't say sweat. It started to sweat under the glass. And then it started changing colors from like dark brown to pale gray to dark beige. What is it now? Oh, no, is it okay? It's dark beige now. Also, mold grew on it. And then at a certain point, flies started spontaneously hatching out of it.

Well, yeah. They said the flies are gone now. And now the Fatberg is slowly shrinking. That's getting smaller. Is it running out of oxygen? Will my children be able to see it? You guys, I don't know. How fast is it shrinking?

I didn't say. Faster than the ice cabs? It didn't say. Oh, no. I feel like this is going to outlive all of us. I think we all need to see it immediately before it's gone. Before it's gone. Incidentally, the United States have had some fatburgs as well.

Shout out to Clinton Township, Michigan in 2018 and Baltimore, Maryland in 2017. The Michigan one was 100 feet long. 11 feet wide and 6 feet tall, roughly an eighth of the size of the London one. So America. And this is recent, too. This is a problem we still haven't solved. It's a recent problem. Jeez.

Ugh. I don't know why, but that makes me think of you guys are both familiar with the Dave Matthews Band 2004 Chicago River incident. Yeah. No. Did they do that on purpose? No, okay. So the legend goes on August 8, 2004,

The band tour bus dumped approximately 800 pounds of human waste from its blackwater tank through a Kenzie Street Bridge in Chicago onto a sightseeing boat below. That was going under. That's so weird. They did it on purpose. The guy pulled the lever. I listened to a whole podcast on it. It's really good. Why didn't want to like shit on the boat?

She didn't want to shit on the boat. It was like rather than go hook the bus up to the thing. He was like, I'll just hit the button as we're going over the bridge. He knew they were dumping in the river. He didn't know it would go onto a boat of people. Exactly. Oh, my God. Yeah.

What was the name of the bridge? The Kinsey Street Bridge. Kinsey. How do they spell it? K-I-N-Z-I-E. Okay. You know that podcast, The Alarmist? Yeah.

They did a whole episode on it. It's great. You know, their job is to figure out who's to blame. Yes. for different things in history. So they wanted to discuss who was to blame for that. Okay, good. I listened to it.

I blame the guy who pressed the button. Well, Esmeralda is now going to become basically a version of Mommy Dearest. It's like so cringy to me. She yanks her kid, Mateo, out of school. He's like, I was taking a math test. And she's like, so what? Addition, subtraction. What do you want to be when you grow up a florist?

Yeah. And she's like yanking him through the street. to take him quickly to audition for this commercial. Meanwhile, Ned is starting his investigation on their Fatberg. He wants to know who knew that these wipes really were not flushable. When did they know it? Who can they trust? He's going to write a story about it.

Yeah. Mare's in cahoots with him. She's going to go try to get Intel from Kimbo. Oh, I loved this scene. She's trying to flirt with her. I pulled a clip. I think we should hear it. Let's hear it.

How you doing? Hey. Can we talk about something? I'm a girl to girl. Of course, Mary Bear, girl on girl. That's gorgeous braid. Is somebody's birthday? I mean, every Wednesday someone's birthday.

One's yours, Blondie. So the man met. You guys have been moving a lot of those bad boys lately, huh? Yeah. Okay, here's my question. Have you guys gotten any complaints that they're not actually flushable? get off my desk.

That's my chef's kiss scene of the week. Oh, yeah? Remember I said I was going to say my favorite? This is my favorite. I like these two women together. I love the line every Wednesday is someone's birthday. That's a great line. It's great.

I like their dynamic. They're both really funny. I loved the braid. It's not her hair. So I'm like, she just sometimes elects to wear those attached. Ponytail braid things. It looks like the thing that like if you have a daughter and she's in her frozen stage and she wants to have the long Elsa braid that comes down and goes over her shoulder.

Clip it to the back of her hair. It reminded me of one of my early Yankee swap parties and you won the fake hair. Oh yeah. I won one of those. It was like as long as a horse's tail. It really was. I have a picture of you. You attached it that night at the party you wore it for the.

the rest of the night. I have a picture of you sort of like over the shoulder with your giant horse ponytail. Whatever happened to that? I don't know. You took it home. I did. I didn't find it at my house. You know what? That might have been disposable. Oh, I think it was disposable. It might have been. A lot of people that night, if they didn't like the gift they got, they hid it around my house. And I found it like months and months later, I would find things. Well, you know, we've taken over the Yankee Swap Christmas party tradition now. Yes, you do it with kids. Mine was like rowdy adults.

Yeah, but we get a lot of things left at our house too every year. Well, hopefully not on purpose. Well, one year, Oscar's daughter won a sequined pillow. It was like one of those pillows where like it's red, but then if you swipe up the sequence, then it's something else. It was just a picture of Nicholas Cage that got left behind and we get it out every Christmas now. and they think it's really funny. That's actually a really great Yankee swap gift. I agree.

Nicholas Cage sequin pillow that changes like what it looks like, depending on the direction. Yeah. That's brilliant. All right. Ned calls Nicole Detrick Adam and Adelola into his office. He needs the whole team on this story. Travis tries to come in and join the party, but Ned says, I'm sorry. I'm going to need you to recuse yourself because this story would implicate softies.

and some wrongdoing, and you work for the softies side exclusively. Yeah. So Travis is like, all right, he reluctantly gives up his self-made press badge. Ken is going to come barreling in, and he's like, listen, you cannot do this. I forbid you to do this story. And Ned is pushing back. And then finally, Ken's like, okay, he's going to play hardball. He's like, accountants, you work for both companies.

You're going back to Switzerland. You're out of here. And then he's like, Detrick, you are in sales. he pulls him out. You're going to go sell these hand mitts now. And then he makes the accountants leave because they work for both companies. So basically, it's just down to Mayor, Ned, and Nicole.

Ken leaves Barry in charge. And then Barry immediately kind of tells them to go write a story on Charlie's Angels. So they're like, okay, basically we're on our own here. So now Ken is realizing that there is a paper trail that implicates him. He has co-signed every email. He is so ridiculous.

It's so funny to me. This whole talking head is brilliant because he basically says, you guys, he responds to every single email so that it can seem like it was partly his idea. Yeah, so that when things succeed, he can be like, I was there all along. Yeah.

Don't you know these people? Yes. In our work, not in our podcast work, but in the world of Hollywood. Yes. There's always some person when you're trying to get some project off the ground that's just part of the reply all chain. Yeah.

They do no real developing, no real producing, no real anything. They just see-seed on it. Yeah. And they just do the reply all with like, looks good. Loving this direction. Yeah. Way to go, guys. Mm-hmm.

Great idea. And then somehow then they're part of the project. that's Ken. That's Ken's the reply all man. Ken's the reply all man, but he goes one step further. He then prints out his reply all. Yeah, because he wants a paper trail to prove that he was part of all of these different ideas. But he actually generated zero ideas.

So Ken decides he has to get rid of this elaborate paper trail that he's created. So he's going to try to enlist Travis. And they have this really fun back and forth. I really liked how he was like, will you help me get rid of this? And Travis is like, yes, we're going to agree on a location, but then when we get there, we'll go to a second location. And then Ken is like, can we just go to a third location right off the top? They're having this like whole like.

Yeah, let's get to it. And finally they're like, fine, we'll meet in the parking lot in 10 minutes. So Ned is now going to do a bold move, in my opinion. He's going to give mayor and Nicole access to his old. softies email. I think they're trying to dig into this softies email to see if they can find who's responsible for the man mitts. Okay. They're doing some mom detective work here. But he's like, yeah, here's my emails. Go through them. I don't have anything to hide. But what Nicole and Mayer find actually is this, I don't even know what you would call it, Jenna. It's like an inspirational

video where Ned is teaching like the salesman how to sale. Like he's saying things like, you've just got to go figure out what starts your engine. So let me hear your engines. Come on, guys, open up, fellas, boom, boom. And then all these salesmen are going, boom, boom. Yeah, I guess they discover that back in his days as a salesman, Ned was so good that the company asked him to make motivational videos for the rest of the sales team. Yeah. And so he's there and he's got this whole different persona. He's got like flicked back hair. He's just like, boo, boo. Like Gary, Glenn Ross, like you got to sail, sail. The mayor has a string of hilarious comments. She does. She says, you look like you, but like 25% more oily. You look flammable. You look like if Draco Malfoy had a cocaine problem. Yes. And he really gets his feelings hurt,

but he's trying to act like his feelings aren't hurt. And she's like, okay, look, I'm sorry, I hurt your feelings. And he's like, no, not at I like being ribbed. You look like McCulley Culkin now. And then her look to camera is so funny. I know. She's like, hey. He just made it personal. I know.

Well, listen, now we're going to get into the mega cringe part of this episode. Yeah. But before we do, maybe we should take a break just to get our bearings. Because we're going to now watch Asmerelda as the ultimate stage mom. We are back. And before we get into some major stage mom scenes, we thought we would kick it off with our Sam. Our first piece of news comes from Cal F in Deming, Washington, who says the Mount Baker Boys wrestling team defeated Blaine last night, 46 to 40 at the duel at home for Mount Baker. Go Baker.

I love it. Julie B from St. Charles, Illinois, wrote in and said, Mrs. Bowler is contemplating her. judgment after impulsively acquiring five baby chicks at Easter time this past year. Turns out she acquired four hens and one rooster. Now she braves the frigid sub-zero temperatures every morning to go take care of her sweet hens that are named Night Raisin Blackberry and Mary Poppins, as well as the grumpy rooster daffodil.

Everyone is looking forward to stretching their wings in spring. Oh, Julie, I was so charmed by this one. I just acquired three new foster kittens. And I know where you're at, Julie. Yeah. It seems like a good idea. And now you have just kittens coming out of your ears or in your case, chicks. But I would like to compliment Julie's ability to name all of these chickens.

And daffodil, what a great name for a rooster. I mean, my gosh. Will you name our kittens, Julie? All right, our last around the town comes from Kendra C. in Clearwater, Florida. Kendra writes, the city of Clearwater erected a 61-foot high rubber ducky, along with her 10-foot-tall baby duck at Coachman Park for the month of January. And I guess, lady, lots of people went and took their photos with it. I'm Googling it. I guess they have this duck festival happening all month.

Look how big this duck is. Oh, my gosh. It's enormous. I'll put it in stories. Well, there you go. You guys, that was our around the town. Thank you for everyone who wrote in. Well, now that we've warmed your heart, we're going to put a cringe in your spine by explaining what is happening with Esmeralda.

Her son is auditioning for Kidmits. And he's doing great. Yeah. Like he does a good job. He's standing there. He says the script. The casting director says, oh, will you do it again? Gives him a little note.

He starts to do it again. And all of a sudden, Esmeralda is going to speak up. And she's like, you know what? Can we, wait, do my rewrites. I did some rewrites. So her son is like, okay, he's going to try to do some rewrites. And then Esmerald is like, no, I'm going to do it. And then she takes over and turns the whole commercial into a commercial just starring the mom.

Yeah, it's like this freaky Friday moment where she stands in front of the camera and then acts like she's seeing some bright light, like some kind of. of like, I don't know, lightning bolt thing. Her whole body starts to shake. And then she's like, oh my gosh, I am now in my mom's body. I am Mateo. Like, it's so, so awkward. So awkward. Well, you know, there was a scene that was in the extended version that would have

happened here where basically Ned and Mayer are going out to investigate the manmits and they find like their lab where they're created. The man mitts lab? its lab. And the sort of scientist, the, you know, engineer lets them in and lets them look around. And you guys, it's really worth it if you can find the extended version on Peacock to watch this. Because what the props department must have had to go through to create this contraption, there's basically like a man mitt on a robotic arm that mimics the wiping emotion, you know, to a mannequin's butt. Okay. But it's like on a, it's like on a, it's.

It's on a loop, so it's like robotic arm, swings, wipes, swings, wipes, swings, wipes. So it's just constantly wiping the ass of this mannequin. Okay. They had to build that. Okay. So I can't even believe what went into that. And Matt Sown shared a little bit about it. I want you to hear it.

One of the most entertaining scenes was the one where Ned and Mayer sneak into the laboratory. If you notice the machine that is. counting up the number of wipes a man mitt can do. This was something that Greg Daniels was really focused on and really enjoyed building this prop. It now lives in his office. Jenna, that lives in his office. Greg's office has the front desk reception area from the office. Yes.

Pam's desk. And now it has this mannequin robot wiping machine. That's pretty special. It reminds me a little bit of the prop they had to build on the office when Dwight was making Nate unply, to turn the two ply into one ply. Yeah. Yeah. Well, things are kind of starting to turn here on softies.

The softies employees are starting to get complaints. Kimbo is fielding a complaint call. She tries to dismiss it. She can't believe that people are trying to do it. just credit man mitts, their wonderful product. She gets really mad after this one call, and she throws a manmit at the wall. Matt also shared with us about this gag and how it came about, and I think we should hear it. There's a scene where Kimberly throws the man mitt and it sticks onto the glass wall.

We had to do several takes of that, getting the manmit more and more damp, so it would actually stick. But when it happened, it was very funny. and the crew broke up. Here's my question. Why is it damp? That is not explained. I thought the same thing. Why does Kimbo have a really damp

wad? Ass wiping mitt. Yeah. At the ready to throw at the wall. That goes unexplained. It is really funny. Do kids still do that thing where they go in the bathroom and then you make toilet paper wet and then you throw it up and make

it stick to the ceiling. Is that still a thing? Is that like the hijinks of children today or not? Maybe. Yeah, I'm sure it's still happening. I'm sure. I mean, here in a minute, the softies people start throwing the big toilet paper rolls at the truth teller employees. Like they hit Adelola in the back of the head. They hit Oscar. And Oscar gets really ticked off. And he's like, listen. there is an art form to the toilet papering. You don't just throw rolls of toilet paper. There's an art form. That's something I'm curious.

Do people still tee-p houses? Do people go and do the toilet paper thing? Lady, I don't think we know anything about the youth today is what I'm gathering. I mean, we did just say we're late to the party. What are their hijinks? Yeah. What are youth hijinks today? I feel like youth hijinks are now...

tech, tech-related. Like you make funny edits or something. You're not actually T-Ping a house or putting saran wrap on the toilet. Yeah, you're not driving to your friend's house in the night. Right. For shenanigans, you make a video. I think maybe. We don't know.

How will we ever know? We won't. It's okay. We can live with it. All right, well, let's move on. We're going to go to a pond. And that pond is a robo. And in that rowboat are Ken and Travis.

And Ken has got a box of files. And he is going to start putting the files just in the pond. Sinking them. Yes. When he's distracted, though, Travis is going to grab some files and hide them in his jacket, though. We realize Travis is kind of, I guess he's being a saboteur. We got a fan question from Layton R in Folsom, California, who said, hello, ladies, at 16 minutes in 16 seconds, we see Ken and Travis in a boat in a lake. Where was that scene filmed?

Layton, you always write in the most thoughtful questions. You really do. We really appreciate it. And guess what? We went straight to Matt Zone to find out the answer, and here's what he had to say. So Layton asked the question about the pond that we shot the rowboat scene in. that's actually a tiny body of water right in the middle of the universal lot. We had to stick with a very specific area to shoot because there are satellite dishes in one direction, there are buildings in another direction, and in a third direction were where the trams go by on the universal tour. So we were threading the needle in this little pond to shoot the scene. the only reason that they let us sink these folders of paper that we had to weigh down to get them to sink was because they're ultimately getting rid of the pond and building stages over them.

So they allowed us to submerge the paper because they're cleaning it all out very soon. I have a question. If you had to get rid of something, files, evidence, a body. How would you get rid of it? Well, have you ever thought about that? I had never thought about it until we were doing some construction and we had some flooding in our backyard. And so you can build a dry well. So when there's a lot of rain here and, you know, we don't get a ton of rain, but then all of a sudden we get like weeks of rain and like the ground can't sustain it.

So we built this dry well. and for those of you guys that don't know, a dry well is like 10 feet deep, and you put these boulders of all these different sizes kind of stacked in sort of like a non-symmetrical way, and it makes a crevasse. So when the water starts piling in and your backyard is getting flooded with water, it goes into this dry well and naturally trickles down slowly into the ground, and the ground absorbs it, which is great for all of the plants and everything, because a lot of people, when it rains, they have like drains that go to the street.

And then the street goes into the runoff. And the ground doesn't get to recoup all that moisture, right? So we had this dry well built. But when they were building it, it's crazy. It's just an enormous hole in the ground. And I thought like if someone needed to get rid of something, they could put it at the bottom of this drywell. No one's going to find it. Made me think of Tony Soprano.

That's what I'm saying. Right? Yeah. I mean, there's nothing in my trial. It's what to go on record. Well. But yeah, they dump all the files into this pond. They do.

And Ken thinks, well, now, I'm good. He's not good. He's not good. Saboteur, Travis. We'll find out later. Well, I think we should check back in with stage mom, Esmeralda. Oscar is going to notice, Esmeralda kind of being ridiculous.

And he tries to comfort her son, Mateo. He's like, do you know what gray rocking is? And the kid's like, no. And he's like, listen, my mom was pretty toxic. She was a narcissist. She loved drama. So whenever she got into one of her moods, I'd make myself as uninteresting as possible,

like a little gray rock. And Oscar's like, maybe I shouldn't have gotten myself involved. But, you know, I just want to give this kid a fighting chance, by the way, my mom was not any of those things. He was just trying to help out Mateo. And then Matteo has a talking head where he's like, that old man is a narcissist if he thinks I'm going to listen to him over my own mom. You know, gray rocking is a real thing?

No. Yes, it's a real way to handle narcissistic personalities. You become uninteresting? Yeah. I looked this up. In a nutshell, the gray rock technique is a method in which you do not, emotionally respond when being manipulated by someone who is controlling or narcissistic. It's exactly what Oscar says in the episode. Because ultimately, narcissists want your full

attention. And if you become emotionally detached, they will become disinterested in you and move on. But the minute you engage, that's when they start ramping up and the situation can get emotionally abusive and very manipulative. The article that I read noted, using the gray rock method does not mean ignoring them because if you ignore them that can trigger them too right the goal is when speaking to them use a dull voice keep a neutral look on your face avoid eye contact and respond with just a few words also do not ask them any questions do not encourage them to elaborate do not offer any details about your life just be aloof and eventually they will grow bored

and they will try to engage someone else. Also, do not reveal that you're doing this method. Oh, yeah. No. It's a real thing, gray rocking. I do find, as you were describing that, like when I encounter someone like that, I do just shut down.

Like I shut off. Yeah. So maybe I've been gray rocking in those moments. I didn't even realize it. But it's hard because I've been in situations with people like that. and they'll know your buttons and they'll purposely try to push them. Because they want some reaction, any reaction, good or bad.

Yeah. Yeah. So it's a hard method to do. Yeah. Well, one of the things that's a runner through this is Ned pushing back on Ken about writing this article and the truth teller. And finally, he gets to his breaking point. He's like, if you don't let me tell this story, I'll quit running the paper.

Mm-hmm. And so he does. And he makes this big speech to the bullpen. And no one really is that interested. Like he just goes, he makes it a real moment where he's like, this is it. I have to quit. And then he hands the reins over to mayor. And without even missing a beat, Adam's like, will you let us know where to forward your last paycheck?

Like it's already blip, you're gone. So now mayor's in charge. Lucky for mayor, a drone is going to fly in to where she is. Very subtle. Who's going to notice this giant drone making a loud noise hovering through. through the bullpen, narrowly getting through the doorway, hanging from it a long string with a paperclip holding some files. No one's going to notice this. Well, they're from Travis. They're the files that he sneaked out of the boat. So now she has her evidence, her hard evidence,

and she's going to go find Ken. He's in the commissary. He's at the counter getting ready to order some food. And mayor taps him on the shoulder. And he lets out this. sound, I think we need to hear it. Try our new Greek bowl. There's always a bowl, isn't there in America? Everything's bowls with you guys. This reaction from him cracked me up. I watched it a few times.

It's so crazy. I loved everything about this scene. We got this question from Yasmin and Dallas, who said, I love how Ken screams when mayor taps him on back, I laughed out loud. Did it say Ken screams in the script? And that was his interpretation? hilarious. I texted Chelsea about it. She said it took quite a few takes before she was able to hold it together and make this happen. And I guess it was scripted. It was scripted. I reached out to Matt Sone about it and he said there's actually two jump scares in this script. One at the very beginning

and then this one, here's what he had to say. There are actually two scares in the episode. At the beginning, Ned is startled by Mayor when he's in the archive room and he discovers that she's been sleeping there and he gives a scream. And then later on, when Mayor sneaks up and startles Ken, when she ultimately asks him to give Ned his job back, both of those scenes were written by Michael Coleman. He was very excited to get a very specific reaction from the actors, and that all came from him. Okay, so are we learning that Michael Komen likes a jump scare? Is he like a horror movie buff?

I wonder. You love a jump scare. I don't mind a jump scare, like in a scary movie. Sure, I hate them. Like, you know what I hate? I hate when someone at night goes down in the kitchen for a snack, and they open the fridge and then they shut the fridge

and the person's right there. I hate it. You hate that. I'm just waiting the whole time they're going in the kitchen. I'm like, don't go, don't go, don't go. I'll try you that for it. Someone's in the bathroom.

They shut the mirror. And someone's in the mirror behind them. Oh, no. Well, listen, Mare is going to sit Ken down. Yeah. And she's going to say, I have evidence. I know that your fingerprints are all over the prototype for manmits.

You signed off on all of this. Busted. And she's like, here's what I'm going to do. I'm going to forget all this if you let us publish this article and you let Ned come back so that he doesn't look like a wuss. And

Ken's like, here's the deal. We're all in this together. We're on the same sinking ship. Because if softies goes down, then the paper is gone. So we have all this back inventory now, these man mitts we can't get rid of, and it's going to hemorrhage the company. So they decide, you know what? They're going to reach out to Ned. He is the salesman

of all salesmen, right? Yeah. Boom, boom. They're going to ask him to help save the company. He takes such pride, Net lady. Oh my gosh. I love this series of scenes. So here's what they come up with. They're going to repackage the mitts as like a dish towel. Like kitchen wipes. Yes, kitchen wipes. That you throw in the trash. Ned says they're all purpose, all surface, sturdy, ergonomic kitchen wipes. And he is on fire.

He is selling them. They get up to 200,000 in sales. Oh, yeah. They're ringing that gong like crazy. Here's my hot take. What? Should Ned be in sales? Yes, why isn't he?

Lean into what you're good at, Ned. He also seems happier. Yes. His whole disposition changes. Yeah. He's like peppy and spirited. He's smiling for the first time in eight episodes. I think mayor should run the paper and Ned should run sales.

Yes, 100%. Yeah. And then they can date and it won't be weird because they're in different departments. Well, we just solved all the problems. I did. Look at us. If you need us, we're right here, guys. What's you got going on?

Ned's going to finish the episode with the talking head. He says, you know, there are several ways to save a paper from writing an important article to quitting to selling a buttload of rebranded kitchen wipes. Today, it was all three. Well, there you have it, folks. I, for one, now want to see the Fatberg. Sam, I think you're with me. We don't have a lot of time. Right.

It's shrinking. It's shrinking. Well, I want to give a big thank you to a few folks for this one. Thank you to Chelsea Fry. Thank you to Matt Sown. We appreciate your tidbits as always. And thank you for everyone who wrote in questions for this episodes and chit-chats and around the towns. We so appreciate you guys.

And finally, before we go, I want to give a shout out to our Office Ladies YouTube. Because we have gone back to the beginning of the podcast, starting with the pilot. And for the next few weeks, we're going to be releasing highlights. Thanks to the folks at Cartuna. Yes, Cartuna Radio. they're going to be animating our clips because, you know, we don't video the podcast, but they have found a really fun way to show highlights with their animation. Yes, highlights from our very first episode of Office Ladies, where we break down the pilot of the office is up now on our YouTube

page. And what's really special about it is we are able to include a bunch of our personal photos from the pilot. They pop up throughout the animation. And I just love it. I love it. I love this new visual way. It's a special treat. Yeah. So go check it out. I'll put a link in our stories, and we hope you guys have such a great week. See you next week. Thank you for listening to Office Ladies. Office Ladies is a presentation of Odyssey and is produced by Jenna Fisher and Angela Kinsey. Our senior producer is Matt Beagle. Our audio engineer is Sam Kiefer, and our associate producer is Ainsley Bubico. Odyssey's executive producer is Leah Reese Dennis. Office Ladies was mixed and mastered by Schultz. Our theme song is Ruppertree by Creed Bratton.