Offline with Jon Favreau - How is Collective Grief Rewiring our Brains | Hysteria Excerpt

Episode Date: May 3, 2023

This week we're giving you a feed drop from Crooked’s very own Hysteria! In this excerpt, Erin Ryan and Alyssa Mastromonaco cover some lighter news — Don Lemon being an idiot, Jimmy Carter being a legend, governors supporting abortion, Wisconsin election wins — before Julissa Arce and Kara Klenk join to discuss how to deal with the world being terrible. Then, the crew dives into their moments of Sanity (featuring good television on Peacock) and Petty (trying to get answers about your own health can be so annoying sometimes). You can catch new episodes of Hysteria every Thursday wherever you get your podcasts and don’t forget to subscribe to Hysteria on YouTube too!

Certain weeks can be more challenging than others, and it's not uncommon to find yourself trapped in a cycle of doom-scrolling through Twitter or consuming news with a sense of despair. It's what this show is often about. It's Jon Favreau here. In times like these, and I don't just mean Mental Health Awareness Month, it's important to check in with yourself and prioritize your mental health. Fortunately for us, Hysteria hosts Alyssa Mastromonaco and Aaron Ryan are here

to break down everything from legislation around abortion to good television on Peacock. Today, I'm excited to share an excerpt from a recent Hysteria episode where Alyssa and Aaron have a fantastic discussion on how to preserve your sanity through an onslaught of heavy news. You will love this episode. Don't forget to listen and subscribe to Hysteria wherever you get your podcasts. All right, let's get into the episode. Don't forget to listen and subscribe to Hysteria wherever you get your podcasts. All right, let's get into the episode. Enjoy. And welcome back, Alyssa. I heard some sad news. I mean, I'm always hearing sad news.

You need to be clearer. I need to be more specific. I heard some sad news that was sad in a meta kind of way. Okay. There's been some research coming out lately about how sad everyone is and how crushed everybody is by this constant deluge of bad information, of bad stories. And we can't quite figure out why. Young women, girls, teenage girls are incredibly sad. The

amount of violence against them is increasing, especially for members of the LGBTQ community. And a lot of them are reporting feeling depressed, feeling, you know, like, hopeless. And that's something that nobody quite knows why. And there's a lot of kind of guessing going around, like, oh, they're on their phones, they can't connect with each other. But we really don't know what is at the root of like a massive trend downward in the collective mental health of young people. There's also more research saying that the entire country, not just teenagers, but people of all different age groups, are wrapped in, quote, collective grief from things like school shootings and the pandemic, and that's changing the way that our

brains work. So collective grief for our purposes occurs when a group of people like a city, country, or those belonging to a particular race or ethnicity share an extreme loss. So I wanted to kind of talk about this kind of sense of collective grief that's pervasive, but also kind of both defined and undefined. Like there are scapegoats that we can point to, but we don't really know for sure why we're all feeling sad all the time. So this is going to be a great and uplifting topic. And so, of course, the first person that we're bringing in to talk about this is a comedian so that we don't all slowly walk into the sea after we get done with this conversation. Everyone can listen to our first panelist on That's Messed Up, an SVU podcast.

And LA folks can catch her at Better Half Comedy on Wednesdays at Bar Bandini. Oh, I love Better Half Comedy. It's so fun. Cara Clank, welcome to Hysteria. Thank you for having me. Take those rocks out of your pockets, everyone. Come on. Okay. Cara says, don't walk into the sea. Don't walk into the sea. Do not walk into the sea. How are you doing? You're in another hotel. I'm good. Another day, another hotel.

But I'm doing okay. Maybe being on the road keeps me from experiencing too much collective grief because I don't have time to think. Do you ever play a game with yourself where you pretend that you're on the run from the law? Ooh. No, but I should. You and Lisa can spice it up. Yeah, I don't know. I feel like we would get caught pretty quick, but we're promoting the hell out of ourselves. Everyone knows where we're going to be at every moment. Yeah, but that's why it's the perfect plan. You're going to run away from the law and

advertise where you're going to go. The cops would be like, they wouldn't possibly be putting on shows. I don't know. Let's a new episode of Poker Face maybe, right? Oh, yeah. Oh, I love that show. Yeah. It's, you know, it's hit or miss for me. I say I love it. I've only watched the first one. I've only watched the first one. And I liked that. The first one is the best one. Anyway, we can talk more about it in Sanity Corner because I've got some thoughts on it. Okay. For sure. And rounding out the panel today, she is so kind.

She's plugging someone else's work in her intro. What? Julissa, I'm going to let you plug your friend's work. Julissa. Yeah. So, you know, I think people by now know my broken record of like, go buy my You Sound Like a White Girl book. So everybody should already be doing that. And I thought I'm really, really, really excited about my friend Jose Olivares' new poetry collection called Promises of Gold.

And I have read every poem like multiple times and it is so good. It's so beautiful. And he writes poetry about like everyday things about love there's a there's a poem about a yellow cab in New York City and it is like you will cry when you read this and and then be like I I like you know I I want to be more in love because of this poem it's just beautiful it's a beautiful book and because of this poem. It's just beautiful. It's a beautiful book. And my friend is beautiful. And he's just wonderful person. And everybody should go buy his book, Promises of Gold.

Color me intrigued, because I've never found romance around taxis. And I think a real talented poet could maybe foster that connection. Okay, So Julissa, I want to start with you today. When you hear the phrase collective grief, do you know, do you have a sense of what it means for you? Do you feel like you've participated in collective grief? Yeah. I mean, I think that there are certain moments and certain events that do feel very much like the whole country is grieving at the same time, like the whole community is grieving at the same time, that the whole world is grieving at the same time. And I have sometimes a hard time with it, because I feel like I'm so sad about this thing that didn't

happen to me directly right and I and I and I don't want to ever like insert my my feelings as being like the most important thing in talking about collective grief because clearly there are people who are directly impacted by these things that are feeling the consequences of these things. And at the same time, I try to not dismiss my own feelings about it because they're real. You know, when I when I feel like a really an example I've used in the past for me is like when the shooting in El Paso happened. Like that was because it was directly targeted to Mexicans and Latinos, and that's my community. I definitely felt like so depressed about it for such a long time. And at the same time, I was like, I didn't know anybody personally that was shot and killed. And

yet, like, it still really, really hit me. And it still really, really impacted me. And I think for me, what makes some of this collective grief worse sometimes is why don't more people care? You know, like when I see sort of the apathy of people about certain events and not others, right? I mean, listen, I was really sad about when Notre Dame burned, you know, I thought it was really sad, like a lot of people were. And it was also really fair

when people were saying, how come you care about that so much and not about all these other things that are happening, you know, that are happening in communities that are already marginalized and not heard. And I think that to me makes it worse, like when there isn't a collective grief around some of these events. Kara, what do you make of the term collective grief? And do you, have you ever found yourself kind of caught up in it? Yeah, I mean, I definitely have, for sure have. I mean, I feel like the summer of Black Lives Matter that was, that was the George Floyd protests and everything. I was just feeling like, so like despondent about like the state of the world. And then I feel like I'm even more tuned in to when people are, when like the collective grief yields something good. Like when I see like a meme account earning like $2 million for a cause

in an hour, I'm like, people are good. Like, I don't know. I just sort of feel like the, the collective grief sort of heightens my sensitivity to like, when then people are reacting and, and, and like activating around collective grief. But no, it definitely affects me. And I do feel like sometimes I push it away. And other times I'm like, no, you have to look at this. You have to read this. Like my husband has been doing a big thing in the last couple of years of ignoring the news. And it drives me insane. Cause I'm like, you just can't, you can't like turn away from these things. And now he's luckily getting back into the news so that I don't have to divorce him. But like, you know, I do think sometimes we can turn away and

maybe that's okay a little bit for our mental health. But overall, we have to be keyed into these cultural moments of grief because I don't know, what are we without them? isolated on phones and screens and social media and things that we're talking about. And so sometimes I do feel like that these big things are bringing people together in a weird way. I don't know. Well, there was the piece that I brought up at the beginning, which is from CNBC about how collective grief kind of like rewires our brains. That makes sense what you're saying, Kara Cara, about checking in and checking out. And Julissa, what you were saying about understanding, not centering your own feelings in your response to a bad event, but also acknowledging that your feelings are valid. I have noticed a change in the way that I react to bad news or bad news, like tragedy. And I'll use the earthquakes in Turkey and Syria as an example.

I cannot stop thinking about it. I cannot stop thinking about it. And it's just like the scale of it is like unfathomable to me. I can't like wrap my head around it. I like, you know, and again, this is not trying to center my own feelings or emotional response here, but one of my like recurring nightmares is like earthquakes. I live in an earthquake zone. I've been in like minor LA, you know, rumbles where everybody runs to Twitter and is like, earthquake. And imagining the fear that these people must have endured as their houses collapsed around them and looking for their families. But I can't stop watching videos of these two little girls being rescued sisters. And the older sister was holding the younger one. And every time I watch something like that, it just feels like it's scraping something.

It's like a raw wound almost. And trying to wrap my head around what these people are going through. And just my heart sort of breaking for them. I don't think five or six years ago I would have reacted in the same way. And I think that part of it is, I don't know, maybe it's just the way that like having a kid sort of like rewires your brain and like really supercharged my whatever parts of me were really empathetic. I feel even more strongly like that. But I do feel like in some ways my just push to just constantly like look at videos, read articles, try to give money, like worry about the people, think about the people, think about what they're going through. It's like maladaptive in a certain way because like there's not, I can't do anything. You know what I mean?

I'm not there. I'm not pulling people out of the rubble. I'm just sitting here in the safety of my comfortable house and my comfortable life and feeling bad about what other people are going through. And I don't know what's going on there. Alyssa, you're like nodding your head. When you worked in the White House, you were like right up in it. I saw terrible things. I think so a couple things. One, just as we talk about this,

I feel like social media and the 24-7 news cycle has so much to do with it. Because like when I was growing up, I can remember the truly terrible things that happened, like the big news stories. And all of them, even then, even as a little kid, you could be like, that would never happen to me. The shuttle exploding, you know, the things that you would see on the nightly news, they were things that would never happen to you. So you would feel badly, but you wouldn't, there wasn't a like, my God, this is happening and it can happen to anyone. It's not like that it can happen to me, but you wouldn't, there wasn't a like, my God, this is happening and it can happen to anyone. It's not like that it can happen to me, but it's like it can happen to anyone. And now

you see, like when we were watching what happened in Syria and you're right, like when I was in the White House, part of my job was coordinating interagency and White House responses to tragedies. So I was on the phone with people in Newtown hours after the shooting. I was in Haiti two days after the earthquake. And my job in Haiti was helping to repatriate American bodies. That's fucking weird shit. But that's not even what gets me now so much. It's like, Jalisa, you were talking about El Paso. Well, part of that, part of that isn't even centering yourself. I don't think it's like for me, I go to the fucking Walmart, you know, that's all those people did. All they did was fucking go to Walmart that day. And I think that that is part of, you know, I go to the last time I went to a really big concert

with my best friend, we were sitting at Madison Square Garden and I look around, she's like, oh my God. I was like, yeah, if something happens, we go up and over and that's the exit. And like, that's how we think now because any, almost any of these things that we see on the news can absolutely happen to any one of us. And so part of like my, like when I see what's happening in Syria and Turkey, I started thinking, well, you know what? So much of what happened is because Erdogan rolled back. He basically forgave all of these contractors who had not built a building code. And if you look at the map overhead, you can see that all the buildings, the hospital's still standing because it was built to code, but these other buildings weren't built to code. And

he forgave all of their, you know, of their, um, you know, things, violations, I guess is the word. And so then we see what happens in East Palestine, Ohio. Well, guess what? It can all happen fucking here too. And it is happening here because Donald Trump rolled back the regulations in 2017 that would have directly affected the brakes on trains carrying, uh, hazardous chemicals. And so it's like, there's just like this weird time where it feels like no one's fucking looking out for each other. And we're making ourselves less safe instead of more safe. And to me, that's why it's so hard to watch the news. I mean, even like the local news, like you guys, I live in the woods.

I live in the woods. I live in the woods. And I go to the bakery last week and they're like, oh, did you hear about the shooter down at the Votax school? And it's like, what the fuck are you talking? Yes, yes, there was a guy who showed up with a gun and everyone was okay. But like it literally all of these things can just kind of happen anywhere. And I think that that is whether it is police violence, whether it is natural disasters, like it's just what we're seeing through the news and social media is like, it's everywhere. And I think that's what makes it hard to move past it or not think about it all the time.

You know, that's, that's my two cents, my two cents. Mm-hmm. Kara, did you have any, have there been any weeks to you, like news weeks that you were like, this is so bad that it's becoming overwhelming for me? Like, I feel like we've had a bunch, like as like millennials, we've had like a bunch of them. Can you recall any like specifically like that? I mean, I can't, like, I definitely know that there were some weeks that were like shooting disaster. Like, yes, I can't remember specifically, but it's because there have been so many,

like, I don't know. It's really, I do think we're doing, we try to do a little bit of self-protection. Like I try to talk it out with people and I'm like, like, it just feels so you feel very helpless, but I can't, I mean, I remember like when Trump got elected, I was like in such despair. I feel like that I felt so sick all the time. And I had, I followed that account called unfollow Trump where it's like, you don't want to give Trump a follower because your one follower is going to make a big dent in his following or whatever. But like, um, and I had it set to an alert. So my husband was like, Kara, you wake up every morning and you read to me the crazy

shit Donald Trump is saying, like, what's wrong with you? And I was like, wait, you're right. And I think that was the first time I was like, I need to sort of do a little bit of protection from consuming constantly or I'm going to go crazy. But I, I mean, honestly, one of the last things that happened that really got me was that that snowstorm in Buffalo. But I, I mean, honestly, one of the last things that happened that really got me was that, that snowstorm in Buffalo. I mean, just like people dying that just went out to go get something and like, they couldn't get to them.

And like, I just, but then like back to what I was saying earlier, like I saw this woman that took in this old man, this nurse and like nursed him back to health and his hands were like about to freeze off. I couldn't send money fast enough. I mean, I was on that woman's GoFundMe immediately, like crying, you know? So it's like, I don't know. I do feel like what you're, what you're saying where, what can I do? I'm so, I'm far away.

I mean, you can give money and that feels like a little bit, and you can be happy, have awareness and talk about it with other people. But it just, you really do just feel so helpless. And especially in those weeks where it's like, like I get a little newsletter every morning that gives me 10 news things. And sometimes I read through it and I'm like, how am I going to get out of bed right now? This is crushing. But yeah, I don't know. I don't know if I, you know, I don't know where I'm going. No, no. I mean, I think that that's like exactly the vibe, right? Like that's kind of how I feel these, the kind of ambient despair that sometimes just wafts in through the internet or, you know, through the TV or whatever.

Or sometimes like in your backyard, you know, because things happen, you know, like Alyssa was saying, things can happen anywhere at any time to anybody. I think that it just kind of leaves you with this feeling of like hopelessness. And Julissa, I wanted to pivot to you really quickly. And you're talking about El Paso. And I think there are different categories of like bad, bad news. And some of them are like bad news caused by people who made evil decisions. And then some of it is just like random disaster, bad news, like the earthquakes, right? Although there are like human decisions that compounded the effects of the earthquakes, the earthquakes themselves were not like someone decided I'm going to do an earthquake, right? But somebody did decide to go to El Paso with a gun and specifically target Latino shoppers in a Walmart. Does some of our

grief center for you, Julissa, around the awareness that evil like that exists or the awareness that a destructive person, all it takes is like one destructive person to ruin like dozens, hundreds, thousands of people's lives? Yes, yes and no, because I think that in either situation, whether it's a random event or like a nature driven event, that to your point is absolutely compounded by human decisions, right? Like climate change, we, you know, we can attribute a lot of these things that we're talking about potentially to climate change. So yes, there is sort of that, there is sort of those differences between the two terrible things happening. I also think, though, that what compounds it for me, as I said, kind of really briefly at the beginning, is just that, like, what we choose to care about, you know, and like the people who are impacted, I think a lot of times has to do with how collectively as a society we react to

those things. So I think it's more, to me, it feels like it's more that. And look, I think there's a lot of things that can be true at the same time, right? It can be true that like you need to take a step away for your own kind of mental wellbeing. And at the same time, I sometimes feel really frustrated about what people choose to share on their social media versus what they don't share.

Right. Or even what the news chooses to cover, what the news decides is important that people should know. And and what they decide doesn't doesn't merit 30 seconds on air or right? Or like an Instagram story. And I think more times than not, the farther away we feel removed from those things, the less likely we are to care about them, right? The less that we feel like this could happen to me, the more removed we feel from them. And I don't know that that should be sort of like the compass that, or at least, you know, that I try not to use that as like the compass of like what I choose to like pay attention to. But there's just so much like in one week, right? Just think about what we're talking about, the things we're talking about right now. The earthquake in Syria and Turkey, last time I checked, and this is before the second earthquake hit, it was 41,000 people had died. 41,000 people. I cannot even close my eyes and imagine

that number of people. That's a baseball stadium. It's a baseball stadium full of people. And not just those people who died, but the impact, the ripple effect and the impact that's going to have on their families, right? And in an area that's already been devastated by war and other natural disasters, right? And at the same time, like, I haven't been able to, like, wrap my head around, what do I share about this? Like, what is the most impactful thing that I can share about this and because I do take these things very seriously and I think sometimes that kind of leaves me in this sort of like being being unable to like move or take action you know but I want

to find like a reputable source to share this information I want to if I'm going to share a GoFundMe or like where people can donate money, I spend a lot of time doing research to make sure that it's like, you know, a place that the money is actually going to go to the people impacted. That's actually going to help. And so sometimes that's really hard to find, especially when it's something that happens out of the country, right? It's harder to verify those things. I think if the news was doing a better job, like it would be easier to find those resources because the news media would, you know, potentially do that fact checking and things. So I sort of like, I get like why sometimes it's hard, right? And it's like, okay, the thing in Syria, the earthquake in Syria and Turkey happened. The train derailed there was another shooting in El Paso

that happened at a mall last week it's like those kind of bigger things and then it's still like Don Lemon saying a woman is past her prime in her 50s not in her prime and it's like

all of these things and I honestly I wake up and I think okay today I today I'm going to, I'm going to share about this. I want, you know, when I want to, I want to amplify these news. And then like, by the time I get to like potentially posting something about it, it's like something else happened. Right. And it just feels like you can't keep up. Like I can't keep up. And then I ended up sharing nothing because I'm like, uh, uh, I don't know what to do. And I just freeze. Right. There's also at the same time, I guess we've all kind of lived our lives partially online, right?

And we work in jobs in some ways where our livelihood is tied to our online activity or we can use, you know, online to like promote ourselves or whatever, sometimes it feels like disasters, and this is maybe me being cynical or terminally online, are sort of mined for clout. Like Cara, right after Notre Dame burned, right? I don't know why I singled you out, but I feel like you and I would probably both have been annoyed by this in a similar way. A lot of people were posting pictures of themselves looking real cute in front of Notre Dame. Stop yourself. I mean, what do you make of the way that it seems sometimes that tragedy is? People see that as like content, right? Not like, what's the difference between trying to help or direct people to ways that they can help and like drawing attention to a picture

where you're looking cute? Oh, I mean, yes, I definitely saw that. I was like, oh yes, your semester abroad in Paris is definitely what we need to be talking about right now. You know, but yeah, it is weird because yeah, it's just a cultural, a culture of centering yourself, right? Like that is what the, that is what Instagram is. And so you could make the argument, oh, it gets more eyeballs. Like a burning church gets less eyeballs when a lot of people are posting it than like me looking hot

when I'm 21 on my semester abroad. So maybe I'm doing the right thing here because then my, my link in my bio has a great goal, like a great resource for giving or whatever, you know? So I don't really know what's going through people's minds with that stuff, but it's not a great idea. I think that's where we should draw the line. It's like, don't post a selfie. Yeah. you're posting about a tragedy. Yes. That seems like that should be like a pretty simple rule. Like don't post a selfie. That is like pretty black and white.

That's a good, that's a rule of thumb to live by. You can even extend it. Don't post a picture of yourself. Right. Yes. You know, make it broader, not just a selfie. Like just don't. Find something else to post. Like find You know, make it broader. Not just a selfie. Like just. Yeah. Just don't. Find something else to post.

Like find a news article. Anything else. Find, you know. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Something else. For sure. Somebody actually. I posted something about Turkey and Syria on my Instagram stories.

And somebody actually fucking responded to that and said how you must visit Turkey. And then proceeded to tell me. Yeah. Proceeded to tell me the beautiful sights and food and culture. I was. Is that a bot? No. That's crazy.

Definitely not a bot. Nope. Oh, my God. Obviously, I didn't respond. I just looked at it and was like, moving on with my day, because I should have responded. I mean, I should have responded with 41,000 people died, period. Yeah. Oh, my God. That is that is uncomfortable. Kara, you mentioned at the beginning of the Trump administration that you were sort of a glutton for punishment in a way. How do you protect your

peace? And how do you keep your brain from becoming totally, I'm using this word again, maladaptive when it feels like maybe, I don't know if the world itself is worse, but we have more access to all of the ways in which it's worse than I think we've ever had. So how do you protect your peace when we have so much access to so much information about so many bad things? I mean, Erin, I have two children. Peace is not really a part of my life right now, but I will say, I had to disarm that alert. I really don't go on Twitter that much anymore. You know what I mean? I'm trying to selectively get my information from places where I feel like they're giving me good info and it's not, um, I don't know, like it's not like more discourse. Like I just want

to sort of like soak in the information from reputable sources and not be like in a comment section, I guess that's how I protect my pieces staying out of the comments. And, um, yeah, I think that it's, it's, I mean, it really is just like putting down the screens a little bit. I hate to be like a mom about it, but like, and, and I'm not great at it all the time, you know, but I do think we just need to like take a step back. People like when I, when a big tragedy like that happens, I definitely am like, okay, how can I help? Where can I give,

what can I share? And then it's like one, when you feel like you sort of done for the moment, what you think you can do, you can take a step back and then don't forget about it. Like revisit it. But I, yeah,

I just don't think there's a comedian named June Diane Raphael who says, I'm not going to take that on right now. It's like a line that she says, I actually have it on a t-shirt and it just says not going to take that on. And it's just like, we can't, you have to protect, like we can't take everything on,

you know? So I, you know, I do have the t-shirt. It's very small on me. So everybody, if you're going to buy it, size up.

Alyssa, how about, how about you? Like, how about you? Like, how do you protect your, how did you protect your peace when you were like repatriating? Yeah, I mean, Alyssa, I can't. It was, you know, back, it was almost easier because I was doing something, you know? I mean, that's the, it's, it is in the case of Haiti, which was, I mean, guys, you see me now, you never would have believed that I was hitchhiking around Haiti, like trying to get to the airport to do my,

I mean, it was crazy. And the things that I saw, I was just like, you know what? This is really hard. I was with Tommy Vitor. We slept at the embassy on the floor together. And we were like, okay, this is what we're doing is going to put a family at peace. Like we're bringing them peace. It's terrible, but this is what we're doing.

And the other stuff we were doing was like helping with the army to figure out how planes could be bringing in supplies and making sure people were bringing the right supplies. And so you feel like you're helping. And that was actually much easier than now looking at things. On the one hand, being a total fucking narcissist and being like, oh God, I know what I would do right now. Which is why one of the people who I love to support whenever there's a natural disaster, my go-to is Chef Jose Andres. He is feeding the victim, the survivors. He's feeding the people who have been in the tragedy. He's feeding the relief workers who are there giving to themselves. And if there's like one person who I feel like he's there within hours of anything and his team is doing things that are literally,

like the things that I felt, and maybe this is helpful, I don't know, but one of the things that I learned, you guys, I might cry. One of the things that I learned from Craig Fugate, who was our FEMA director, who I traveled to all these places with, especially we spent a lot of time doing Hurricane Superstorm Sandy in New York. And he said that when you are dealing with someone who has been in a tragedy,

the best thing you can help them do is give them back some control of their life, right? So if you have the choice between donating your clothes to someone, if you have this choice, right, donating your clothes to someone or donating Target gift cards, donate the Target gift cards because then these people who have lost everything, you know, can go and buy themselves a pair of jeans or something that makes them feel like they have control, you know? And so I think that like when I try to, that's what I always try to think about. It's like, you know, helping is not the time, a tragedy is not a time to clean out your closet necessarily,

right? Like think about what's actually going to help people who in some instances have absolutely, absolutely nothing. Like one of the stories that I had read about the shooting up at the Buffalo grocery store. Well, guess what? It was a food desert before that grocery store. And so the people in that community, that was their grocery store. Who the fuck wants to go back to that grocery store? And so someone in the town had set up essentially a GoFundMe slash Instacart where people could order food and have it delivered to their house until they felt okay enough to go back to the grocery store once it reopened. And I come from a town where I grew up where so many people walked to the grocery store. You didn't want to have to get in the car and go. And so anyway, I feel like the thing that makes it a little bit better is if you actually think about what people need.

Posting is great, but post about the person setting up the Instacart, you know, so that people can get their food and figure out how to give people some choices. And that was my very circuitous way of saying that another one of the things that Craig Fugate always used to say was that food is one of the most important things. Like, you don't give people just a bunch of processed shit that doesn't expire and is totally shelf-. Like, yes, but give them one meal a day where they can sit down and eat something delicious and feel nourished. And so those are the things that I try to do. But like, tragedy is terrible, guys. And it's, and it is, it's honestly, it's really, it is hard for me a lot of times, like when I think about stuff like that, to not just want to go back and do it all again.

But, you know, that's the other thing. Relief workers, try to give them some relief. I mean, like they are seeing things that none of us will ever, ever understand. Those workers in Syria and Turkey, I mean, God bless them. And so, you know, I always try to remember the relief workers, too, who have done the things. Yeah, it's like the Mr. Rogers, look for the helpers thing. Exactly. Sorry, I didn't mean to get teary.

Can't help it. No, I mean, I can't imagine having seen what you've seen and helped out in the way that you've helped out. And I think that your point about feeling as though you're doing something is really salient. And just feeling as though you're actually providing a material improvement to people who have experienced some kind of unimaginable loss of things that they shouldn't have ever lost is something that's really important. Well, Alyssa, those were really good tips. And I think in our show notes,

we should put a summary of some of them for our listeners. If you want to go back and get Alyssa's tips for how to help, because Alyssa, your tears should not be in vain. No, I hope not. Is this the first time? No, I cried one other time when my cat Petey passed away.

Jalisa was there for that. I think I was maybe there. I feel like I see you primus for Alyssa. I think that was, you guys give me a cat. Oh, also maybe when I've talked about Newtown. There are certain things you kind of squish them down and you try to go like, you know, but you can't. You start talking about them and it's good.

It means that we're alive, right? Yeah. Yeah. I think that about them. And it's good. It means that we're alive, right? Yeah. Yeah. I think that's a good note to end on. The fact that we feel sad when we see that other people are experiencing loss means that we are human beings who have made a connection emotionally to our fellow humans. And we shouldn't lose sight of that. To paraphrase slightly something that Julissa said earlier, it's what makes us more human. I hope you enjoyed this excerpt from Hysteria as much as I did.

If so, be sure to find the full episode and a ton of other great discussions by Alyssa and Aaron wherever you get your podcasts. Hysteria is a Crooked Media production. Caroline Rustin is our senior producer. Our executive producer is me, Aaron Ryan. Alyssa Mastromonaco is our Crooked Media production. Caroline Rustin is our senior producer. Our executive producer is me, Erin Ryan. Alyssa Mastromonaco is our co-producer.

And Fiona Pastana is our associate producer. The show is engineered and edited by Jordan Cantor. Thank you to our digital team, Nara Melkonian, Mia Kelman, Milo Kim, and Matt DeGroot.