Offline with Jon Favreau - How “The Social Network” Explains Silicon Valley

Episode Date: May 2, 2024

When did we collectively agree that a hoodie-clad coder could wreak havoc on our society? Probably not long after “The Social Network” came out. This week we’re kicking off a new bonus series: the Offline Movie Club! The hosts will dive into one of their favorite films about the internet and technology to discuss what the movie gets right and wrong, and how it shapes our understanding of the digital era. This week Max, Jon and Halle Kiefer, host of the "Ruined" podcast, break down David Fincher and Aaron Sorkin’s 2010 biographical drama. What did it get right and wrong about Offline’s second favorite disruptor, Mark Zuckerberg? What creative liberties did the filmmakers take in retelling the story of Facebook’s founding? And has Sorkin ever given a female character a last name? For a closed-captioned version of this episode, click here. For a transcript of this episode, please email [e-mail] and include the name of the podcast.

I have like a lot of friends who have worked closely with him. Like everything here. He is an asshole. Yeah, absolutely. And he actually wasn't trying to be one. No, he wasn't trying at all. And that was part of the problem. He never saw himself as an asshole.

No, no. He couldn't understand why people saw him as an asshole. Yes. And he deluded himself into thinking he was creating a platform that would be a force for good. Yes. And the reason he did is because he was surrounded by yes people who constantly kiss his ass the reason that jesse eisenberg's character i think doesn't really match mark zuckerberg is mark zuckerberg has this like what are you talking about i thought i thought we're doing some good stuff here yeah i'm max

fisher i'm john favreau i'm hailey keeper welcome to the first episode of the offline movie club hell yeah we did! We did it. We did it. You have part of my attention. You have the minimum amount. The rest of my attention is back at the offices of Facebook, where my colleagues and I are doing things that no one in this room, including and especially your clients, are intellectually or creatively capable of doing. Did I adequately answer your condescending question?

Wow. I am pumped. So this is a new series we're trying out, the Offline Movie Club. Every episode, we will watch a beloved movie and then discuss how that movie reflects or shapes how we think about technology and the internet. This week, we are talking about The Social Network, the 2010 movie that tells the mostly true story, which we will get into, of Mark Zuckerberg founding Facebook while he was an undergrad at Harvard. We're going to talk about what the movie gets right and wrong, its cultural and maybe even political impact,

how it would be different if it came out today. Joined in the studio today by Hallie Kiefer. Hallie hosts the Crooked Media podcast, Ruin, where she unpacks scary movies for her squeamish co-host. And Jon Favreau, who's a random guy I met on the street today. Jon, Hallie, do I have the bare minimum of your attention? Are you ready to adequately answer my condescending questions? Yes! He's such a dick.

So, Jon, what do you think makes this movie important? I mean, it's interesting. As I was watching it last night, it is such a 2010 era movie. Like it's a great movie of its time. And it really I mean, it came out at a time when Facebook was still awesome. Yeah. Yeah. Or at least thought of as net positive.

No one heard of QAnon. No one had heard of QAnon yet. Yeah, it was just like it was part of the background noise for a moment. it was like sure that thing that we all know and use and then it became what it is today yeah yeah it's a movie that um we'll get into the mark zuckerberg of it all but jesse eisenberg yeah will always be that character to me that's definitely one of those performances yeah like he crushes he i was like yeah who else could have played that yeah no but that but now i I feel every movie I've seen him in since then, I'm always like, oh, Mark Zuckerberg. He's Mark Zuckerberg, except talking more slowly for some reason. Yeah, exactly.

Yeah, I think it's the like snapshotness of it that really sticks with me because it was like this very particular moment where like Silicon Valley was becoming so huge in a way that it had never been before, even in the computer era. And it like really didn't invent the idea of the like hoodie wearing founder of the internet startup. And I think it really articulated definitely for me when I saw it, when it came out, like who these people were, what role they were going to play in our culture. And like, it still kind of defines that for me. I also remember the first time I saw it, it was, it was the first moment that I thought, oh, Mark Zuckerberg, maybe he's not such a good guy. Oh, yeah. I think that's – I'd heard rumors, but I didn't know for sure.

And then I watched that, and then it was all downhill from there. this to me is a pretty clear eyed look of like, not just where tech was going to be going, but like the underpinnings of tech is these, these sort of megalomaniacal characters. And to me watching this, of course, our version day is Elon Musk where it's like, this is a prototype of a character. Like what it is now is cartoonish because he is cartoonish, but it's the same.

It's like, it is wealth. It is sort of like a blindness to what your work actually does in the world and how people interact. You know, it's a deference to your own judgment or whatever. And so watching it was like, wow,

Aaron Sarkin really hit the nail on the head, didn't he? In terms of that, where it's like, he is calling, he's calling where we're headed and he was right about it. You know, I think it kind of,

I don't want to say it creates that archetype because like Silicon Valley people were mega maniacal assholes before this movie came out but i think it just like so shaped our expectation of what they were going to be like like in some ways i think people are conforming to the ideas they got in this movie of how you're supposed to behave without maybe even realizing it and i i think that's a interesting point because i feel like it's like uh as millennials i like sort of our generation of the tech, like the breakout tech star, like, you know, like obviously they're all trying to be Steve Jobs, like, you know, like, you know, having a business out of your garage. But this was our version. And I think it's like the change was that you really could start coding and make this kind of money and like be successful so easily where like that wasn't something that existed before the internet did so it was like i think you're right where it's like it was self creating almost at the same time because you have certain people to refer back to but it wasn't like

it is now where it's like oh there are people who never had to go to college like there are people who suddenly there were these new paths into a totally new industry so yeah like how do you how do you think of it other than like what are what are the few examples of it? So I think that makes sense. Hallie, what did you think the first time you saw this movie? I was like, oh, my God, do we have to keep talking about Facebook? Because I was on it, but, like, it was right when it was, like, so saturated. Sure. And it was like, oh, and now the movie.

But I also do feel like, but also, like, I do think this is a good movie. And I think it, like, I mean, maybe not the female characters, which I'm assuming we're going to get into. But, like, there's a lot of substance to it versus now where everything every movie and i think we're moving out because nobody wants to see it was like every movie is like the invention of the android like the like it's like a biopic for everything like the invention of the flaming hot dorito and that's what that felt like now but looking back it's like no no there was substance and like even in the time was it an interesting critique versus now I think people who make movies now like see something like this and they're like, right, we do a biopic. It's like it has to be good.

You guys forgot where this is a good movie, you know? Well, when I first saw it and I was like, oh, maybe this Mark Zuckerberg guy is worse than we've led to believe. When I watched it again or when I watched it for this my thought was oh they didn't make them into a big enough of an asshole yeah yeah like they sort of undersold it it's funny because they didn't know then you know but what we all know now and i think it's like almost like and again i don't want to speak for you guys as a part of a generation but it's almost like you would never see a biopic that's about someone who's really successful but also is a bad person like i feel like we grew up in the 90s where it was like a hero or a villainopic that's about someone who's really successful but also is a bad person like i feel

like we grew up in the 90s where it was like a hero or a villain and it's like no this guy's neither he's just incredibly ambitious and not that interested in like investigating any human part of this so but and so by the end of it you're like well that guy sucked it i guess he's gonna control the media now which was new like felt so like, oh, that's not good. That guy sucks. Yeah. Aaron Sorkin has talked about how he wrote Zuckerberg to be like in the first part of the movie, kind of an antihero. And then at the end to be a tragic hero. And you do kind of feel he's trying to play both at once. And I do wonder how different that portrayal would be if you were to make the movie now, like after 2016, after QAnon, after. Well, yeah, I think because because to me if you're mark

zuckerberg i'm engaging with this like to me i would be writing an essay like no i didn't but now i feel like he is the villain not necessarily because he could have known everything that was going to happen but like he doesn't seem to be interested in self-reflecting he's just like learning jujitsu and like buying a cattle ranch it's like okay thanks dude i like why did you do all that almost you know well i mean at the end they do the like where are they now kind of things right before the credits and the last thing that's on the screen last words around the screen are like you know mark zuckerberg is the youngest billionaire it's like it would not have ended there yeah yeah yeah yeah that's a great point There'd be like another 500 words of what he's done. Some genocide in other countries.

Yes, yeah. Some elections that went awry, maybe here. There's some more chapters. Yeah, there's some more chapters. Definitely. I would watch a sequel. I would watch the movie now that's about like his compound and he's building it in Hawaii or something. Yeah.

Well, I think that's kind of one of the most interesting things about how the movie has aged was like at the time, I thought it was weird that they got David Fincher, the serial killer movie, psychopath movie guy to make a like corporate biopic. And I don't know to what extent they were just like really prescient and like wanted to do that or if he just picked it up. But now it totally tracks that the guy who made Fight Club and Zodiac is also making the Mark Zuckerberg soundtrack. Great soundtrack too. Trent Reznor and the cover of Creep there. Because they had to do a lot of work and they did a good job of making something

that is fundamentally not that interesting to watch. Yes, that was one of my first impressions. People just arguing across the table and I'm like, this soundtrack, they're doing a great job. All the crew scenes, I'm like, thank you. I needed to see someone moving you know like this was had it was put together really well because it is just watching people at a computer the whole time meeting rooms yes but it's David Fincher so it's the most electrifying thing yeah he did a great job well

and I do think like subsequent origin story films are not as good no no as social network in terms of the action and keeping the action going because they are about like sort of boring things that happen. And I think this is on the studio heads or I don't know, like whoever's funding these things.

I don't know. Like I'm sure the finances of Hollywood have also changed because of this. Like to me, it's like the people making it, they think, oh, it's a biopic.

Like they're using the algorithm. Like people like biopics is like, no, no, they liked all that it was good. And there is this gap. Like I feel like there's a lot a lot of movies you know not that we have to defame certain directors but they're clearly it's like okay this could have been written by chat gbt but i'm getting paid a lot of money so i don't care and it's like no no they did care and like occasionally i guess we're gonna get those biopics now where it's like or like movies that are ip but good but they don't

care i don't know both of the steve jobs movies were yeah this is this was what was really striking for me revisiting it now 14 years later and i'm curious what your guys's reaction was revisiting it is the fact that it was made at a time when like silicon valley was ascendant and the stories that you would want to tell about it would be like positive look at this great new website look at this great new business and now it's so interesting I think to go back and look at it through the lens of everything that comes after and it's like really prescient a lot of ways there are a few things that I think it like didn't quite foresee which we'll get into but it's amazing how well it is held up as like anticipating everything that came after yeah but what did you guys think

well like what were you struck by well it's interesting because i think one of the messages of the movie is uh it's okay to be a huge asshole like this right if and because it's sort of like the um the walter isaacson biography of elon musk that we were talking about a couple months ago which is like you know mark zuckerberg he's a real genius, and he created this wonderful thing, Facebook. But sometimes when you're a genius that creates wonderful things like that, you're going to end up being an asshole,

and you're going to be a little antisocial. But you create this great website. But you create this great website. So, you know, even though it's benefiting humanity, there's a real cost, because the person who does it is not great. And that's not quite what... Yeah, yeah is not great. And that's not quite what is happening.

That's not quite what has happened. No, no, no. That's a good point. Right. Yeah, and again, the idea of the myth, right? These myths that we are supposed to be operating around. The people who work in the tech industry, the idea of the genius in a sweatshirt.

It makes me think of Sam... What was that? Sam Bankman-Fried. the genius in a sweatshirt. It makes me think of Sam, what was that? Sam Bankman-Fried. Where it's like a self-created idea of what is supposed to be happening. I don't know. There's something about that.

Where again, it's like, now when you see Sam Bankman-Fried, maybe five years ago, you'd be like, ah, because of Mark Zuckerberg, I trust him. Now you see that guy. I see that guy.

I'm like, dude, I trust that guy. He's wearing a sweatshirt like he's gonna rip you off and how but that is unfortunate i feel like that's what the tech industry what has been revealed to us because i feel like again as millennials like i feel like we were the last generation where like the the idea of like the freedom of the internet or what the internet the possibility of the internet was so unfettered because no one was talking about how humans interact with one another in real life. So it's like all the things that have happened with Facebook. I'm not saying you can call all of them, but I'm like, this all stands to reason that this

all happened. But the idea of like this standalone genius, I think we're past that. I don't know. And I think maybe I think Elon Musk was the nail in the coffin where it's like, OK, well, that guy may be smart in some sense, but I don't know what it is. He's bad, wrong. And every other sense,

you know? Yeah. And like genius does not excuse being an asshole. Yes. Yeah. Which is a very tech. Yes. Industry belief.

By the way, it's also a very Hollywood. Right. Yeah. Right. Like, oh yeah. Asshole to work for terrible screams at people,

throw things, but make some pretty good movies. Yeah. Make some pretty good products. Yeah. I i agree that's definitely part of the creation that this movie i think like sets up yeah So let's get into the categories. So this is a set of questions, topics we're going to discuss on each episode to talk about things like what the movie gets right and wrong. Let's start with what is the biggest thing that this movie gets right? John, what do you think tech founders are uh more often than not uh socially damaged nerds whose ultimate success leads them to believe that they are godlike figures who refuse to be questioned all of all the founders

i said more often than not okay more often than often than not. Which actually gives a, that's a big chunk that, I'm being generous there. Yeah, no, no, no. That could be a big chunk that are not like that. And I truly believe that. You know, I feel right when you say it. I'm like, I don't know that many, but everyone I've seen, that seems to be the case. You know, everyone that rises to public awareness, I'm

like, yeah, that guy also sucks, or that woman also. You know, like there does seem to be themes, and it's sort of like how, let's say, for example, like the Republican candidates. Why are they all such freaks? Well, you kind of have to be in order to be ready to be. Unfortunately. So it's like who succeeds in tech? It's the assholes.

It has to be Mark Zuckerberg because that's how it's set up. Yeah. Right. And the ones that I think are not like that, they prove the exception to the rule because when you meet them, you're like, oh, you're so nice. Right. Yeah. You're like a real wonderful, smart, thoughtful person. It becomes a big part of their brand because it's such a cut against the norm. Yeah.

Yeah. And what flows from that, I think it gets the competitive cutthroat nature of Silicon Valley right. Yes. I think it gets the, what became the Facebook ethos, at least in the first couple of years, move fast and break things. Totally gets that right because that's sort of the energy of the movie.

And also the idea that a big plot in the movie is stealing Facebook from the Winklevi twins. And of course, Facebook would go on to like steal ideas or just buy companies that threaten them and imitate them. It does become it is funny because after the movie comes out, Facebook really disputed that account. And they were like, well, how could you portray us that way? And then went on to make that the core of their business model.

Yeah. Next 15 years. Hallie, what did you think um I think to go along with your statement I think for me uh watching it is sort of the it's tied to like how in the movie narratively we're supposed to feel bad for him

because he's bad with women and how women in general I think Aaron Sorkin he himself said on 30 Rock I can write a women character as well what it's called for and I in this movie I don't think he when it's called for. And in this movie, I don't think he thought it was called for. But I think his patheticness is tied to he can't get a girl. It has

to be tied to that because that's the only human thing that makes you feel bad for him because otherwise he's just an asshole. I don't care if this guy gets Facebook. So it has to be tied to this more human thing. And so it makes sense that it's tied to women watching it. The unexplored and not that I want Aaron Sorkin to be the one to explore it. I want to be clear to this more human thing and so it makes sense that it's tied to women watching it the unexplored and not that i want aaron sarkin to be the one to explore it i want to be clear it's probably some playwright or whatever but like the um like everything with regards to like

asian women is so is addressed with one line and brushed away but then remains so unexplored as to i think to your point like these are not guys asking themselves complicated questions. Right. Yeah. They're like, I'm a genius. And the fact that I think about women and in particular Asian women in a very specific way, I'm like the idea of like being smart as opposed to being like there are many kinds of intelligences. And in fact, being emotionally intelligent and able to critique yourself in the world is perhaps the intelligence a lot of tech people need to develop in order to actually know how to run a business. Like, again, I always think of Elon Musk,

where it's like, if that guy would go to therapy one time. And so I honestly think the way that Aaron Sorkin wrote these characters made sense because I was watching them as like, they are women understood by these men, which are just like, they are just here to date us or be at the party or be my lawyer who tells me nice things. And that's how I think of them.

But what's interesting now, I think of like, this was created to like rate women, you know, initially. And then, of course, you know, 2021 to have the Facebook files come out and be like, oh, yeah, this is incredibly damaging, specifically to tween girls. Like Instagram and Facebook, like they did it. Social media is specifically damaging to younger women when that is not like I don't like those guys would never wonder like is this is how we're thinking about women damaging to them like to have that be a void in the middle of this but also you'd have to like like in order to be so driven by your success you're they're clearly not thinking about how this will affect anyone but themselves which I think is where we're at with tech now where I'm like like, yeah, I see Elon Musk.

I don't know what, is there a thought going on in that guy's head ever? And he's just like, I need to have three more kids. And it's like, no, you have to go to therapy. I'm sorry. Can we talk about how, to your point, like Eduardo Savin's girlfriend goes from like being pretty smart and thoughtful

at that first dinner with Justin Timberlake into like just inexplicably going crazy and burning his scarf. And it's played for laughs, too, which is a little weird. And I will say the one moment in that that I did think was really well done is when Eduardo shows up at the house in Palo Alto and Zuckerberg's asking him about Christy. And he goes, I don't know. I'm actually really scared.

She's extremely jealous. And I'm like, really, I don't know I'm actually really scared she's extremely jealous and I'm like really I don't know I'm nervous to be around her and Zuckerberg says yeah but it's still pretty cool you got a girlfriend because in his mind like a woman is a girlfriend like it's like an idea versus like and I think this movie is in large part about male friendships and like

male like these sort of betrayals but it's like that's the one moment where like he's trying to express something that really is, he is concerned. And maybe we could have used another scene to like set us up for the fire. But it's like, oh, even in this, when another man is trying to be genuinely

emotionally vulnerable and be like, I really am not going, it's not going well for me. He's like, yeah, but at least you got a girlfriend. So like, there's no, there's no penetrating his idea of the world, which is also like how Facebook exists. You know, it's just like it's an idea in of the world in the world and yeah i don't know that was just but i did like that scene where i'm like oh yeah no that guy's uh now he's not listening to anybody he's other than sean parker of course it is very funny that the

movie arrives at this treatment of a betrayal of women i think not because it is trying to express this is the view in Silicon Valley, although it gets there accurately, just coincidentally, because it so happens that Aaron Sorkin's misogyny just happens to line up with it. Well, I mean, it did. I was like neatly dovetailed in this particular instance.

So something that I thought this movie got really, really right, and so I'm not actually even sure if it was intentional, the face smash scene, where there's like, he's first designing that website where you line up photos of two classmates who are girls who would like and rate which one is hotter i thought like really landed in this idea that social media works by like indulging the worst part of yourselves and that's incredibly addictive and it gives you permission to be the worst version of yourself and like really prescient yeah yeah no i had that i had the same thought too and and you can tell when everyone and there's that scene where a whole bunch of different people are trying it out

and you you can tell that like it feels gross yeah it feels gross and they kind of they know it's gross right and they're doing it. And then the girls are disgusted. And it's like, that is, yeah, that gets it pretty well. Yeah. And I think the music playing it too, like as a slasher scene. Yeah. It's really effective. It's weird that they don't, they never return to that later in the movie.

Yeah. Which is what makes me think it's almost like accidental. Like they portrayed this without actually thinking through. This is the harm of social media. Because otherwise they just treat it as like, oh yeah, it's an addictive time waster. Right. Something else I thought the movie got really impressively right that I actually never even noticed until I rewatched it like a couple years ago after doing a bunch of reporting on Silicon Valley. There's this whole through line about the way the business model is changing in silicon valley and the economics are

changing that like i didn't even realize was there the first time i said about the advertising yes i i was like oh yeah the the debate that we have all the time you know or anyone makes content should we have ads here at crooked media it's a discussion it's actually it's even like more subterranean than that. So it's like, do you guys remember the scene where Sean Parker's in the nightclub with Mark Zuckerberg? Hell yeah, great scene. And he's saying like, this is our time and you're going to tell the funders, fuck you. This is our time.

This time, you're going to hand him a business card that says, I'm CEO, bitch. That's what I want to do. So they hit on this later when he goes to Case Equity and Sean Parker is playing it up. He's like, they're going to pitch you on investing you. And that was a really new thing in Silicon Valley where forever and ever it had been like the founders pitch the investors, the investors will maybe give you money. And then they put grownups in charge. That's what had happened in Google. And Facebook is kind of the first where it's the like 22 year old hoodie wearing founder gets to own the company and be in charge. And they were like really actually quite smart about conveying how that was changing, why it was changing the

fact that it was really new, because that turns out to be like this huge apocryphal shift in how the tech industry works that gives us like the social media era as we know it. Well, and then you like fast forward to the Uber controversy where the VCs and the investors are like, now we got to control the out of control founders. Yeah. Right. Finally, we're getting a correction. And also feel like this speaks to why we the tech industry is our industry. But it's seemingly the tech industry a lot it's like is open for grifting like i think of like sarah theranos or like we work where it's like yeah you have someone charismatic enough or interesting enough come in and pitch you

the like the the success in tech was so it was new like it was almost like you couldn't picture the success so people could be like yeah we're gonna have success in this way it's like yeah we will anyways the machine tests how many uh diseases of the blood like like it's almost like you see this is setting up those situations too where it's like what do you mean at one point sean parker says i changed the music industry for the better and for always and i'd like to come out i i changed the music industry for the better no you did it like but to have the confidence of like i did that and it's better it's like what like it's almost like i understand how a grift can happen because it's like that's such an insane assertion you think surely you must be backing it up with something that this

is better but they believe it they believe it so it doesn't it like the reality material reality doesn't really matter yeah well it's the beginning of the era too where celebrity isn't just about hollywood anymore that you have the celebrity tech founder and in politics. Right. And so the individual started selling themselves. And so Mark Zuckerberg was as much associated like Facebook was as much about Mark Zuckerberg as it was about the product. That's true. Right. That is really new. OK, what are some of the smallest things that you think the movie gets right? Like anything like weird little stuff that you noticed?

Oh, Larry Summers, even back then. Getting predictions wrong. I was going to ask about that. There's that point where he was like, when the Winklevoss was like, it's millions of dollars. He's like, millions of dollars. Come on now. Don't let your imagination run away

i'm in a position to know i was the treasury secretary i was gonna say what he's like i'm in some position to judge this i was like was he do we think that's true i'm not sure that he was he uh i'll tell you they nailed larry summers they really did they really get him uh yeah as someone who has uh sat in Larry Summers' office, not when he was at Harvard, but when he was at the White House, and had to get edits from him on his speech, I can tell you exactly like that. Did he ever turn to an assistant and say,

punch me in the face? Not as witty. Yeah, right. Larry Summers in this movie was wittier. Did you rip off the doorknob on your way out? Basically, yeah. I had one. The Winklevoss twins. I think

they suck. I think they really nailed it. I think they're a terrible hang. You know what I found? Oh, yeah. No, you're not having a good time with those guys. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They are now in Bitcoin. And in fact, they're producing a movie about themselves. Of course! About themselves called Bitcoin Billionaires.

Cool. I can't wait to run out and see it let's review it on this podcast actually be fun if we do this that would be a good one yeah holly did you have any um for me it was a uh a directorial and acting decision that i really appreciated because we have the the um uh later we have the nightclub scene with sean parker but that first dinner when they're talking and you and Sean Parker's like you know talking about like they tracked me and they still like and then Eduardo is like um what really and then of course Christy says nothing because she's a woman and then um but then under his breath every all when Sean Parker's talking it's a great action decision because I also do this when I'm excited like like uh zucker was like yeah yeah

like everything he's saying he's like that's what i thought like he's it's not he's not even in conversation it's like sean parker's selling him the dream and then he's like i knew it i knew it like it's like i knew what you're saying is confirming everything about what i'm thinking and i'm like that's it was just a very effective way to be like that character's locked in and then to have uh just their dynamic where it's like he's so condescending to everyone except for Sean Parker because he like is in awe of him and wants to be him so that he becomes a sucker for him.

Like he's so easily duped but everyone else he's so fucking mean to and condescending because he thinks he's smarter than them and it's like no no Sean Parker has something it's not intelligence but like you will you'll fall for it every time. Like yeah I thought that was like a very effective way to set that up. All right let's move on to what is the biggest thing the movie got wrong holly what

do you think um i just again think that when you write characters you have to give them right i think when um dakota johnson comes out and is talking the exact same as the actual erin sorkin in the movie i'm like you got she's-old girl, like, we gotta have different references or, like, talk about a movie. Like, something, and there's something about that that's very, like, kind of flattens it. Jim, what do you think? Alright, so can we play the very last

line of the movie? You're not an asshole, Mark. You're just trying so hard to be. Okay. So glad you're bringing this up. Very, very famous line. Yeah. I think it is completely backwards.

A hundred percent. I agree. It's just wrong. It's just wrong. Factually incorrect. From all the reporting about Mark. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Absolutely.

I have like a lot of friends who have worked closely with him. Yeah. Like everything here. He is an asshole. Yeah, absolutely. And he actually wasn't trying to be one. No, he wasn't trying at all. And that was part of the problem. He never saw himself is an asshole. Yeah, absolutely. And he actually wasn't trying to be one. No, he wasn't trying at all.

And that was part of the problem. He never saw himself as an asshole. No, no. He couldn't understand why people saw him as an asshole. Yes. And he deluded himself into thinking he was creating a platform that would be a force for good. Yes. And the reason he did is because he was surrounded by yes people who constantly kiss his ass.

They still kiss his ass. They all told themselves it was okay to keep getting like bigger and richer because they were doing something good and the critics who said they weren't were just jealous or reporters looking for clicks and they had other motivations and it does i mean they that's why they did get the paranoia and delusion right from sean parker but this idea that like he's just a good guy who like was misunderstood in fact the opposite he was the reason that jesse eisenberg's character i think doesn't really match mark zuckerberg is mark zuckerberg has this like what are you talking about i thought i thought we're doing some good stuff here yeah yeah i think that's exactly and i think that also gets to like this is like the

big one for what the movie gets wrong because because the thing that Zuckerberg and Facebook have always objected to and have kind of used to like reject the movie as a whole is that this idea that he was motivated by jilted romance and friendship. It's just like is evidence that he was like had been spurned by a girlfriend and he went out and like angrily created facebook to try to win her back um zuckerberg said in he's like very rarely comments on the movie although people at facebook talk about all the time they refer to it as the fucking movie which i think is fun that's awesome he said quote they went out of their way in the movie to try to get some interesting details correct, like the design of the office. But the overarching plot, they just kind of made up a bunch of stuff that I found, guys, kind of hurtful. Oh, my God.

But that's the thing. So funny. To me, it had to be a friendship. It has to be about his rejection by women because there is nothing interesting about this. If it's not there, there's no movie, because who cares? Oh, some guy made a, like, a website and he made a lot of money? Okay.

Like, it's almost like you should be glad they grounded it in that, because if they did it, you just look like a horrible person to work for. Yeah. Do you guys know the story of how Sorkin ended up writing this script? No.

Because I think it's illuminating for this. Tell us, tell us. So, So the real life Eduardo Saverin, when he is a senior at Harvard, cold emails a writer named Ben Mesrick, who had written like a couple of business books and is like, I've got this story to tell you. I think you're going to know about it. And just basically tells the entire side of his story that we hear about in the deposition in the lawsuit. And then Ben Mezrich turns this into a book proposal, which then gets optioned. And then Aaron Sorkin takes not even the book, but just the book proposal. And he is like, I've never used Facebook before.

I don't know what Facebook is. I don't know anything about Silicon Valley. But he has this insight that it's like, wow, there are these two friends because he's seeing the story from Eduardo Saverin's perspective, because this book is really just a write up of one interview with Eduardo Saverin. It's kind of a flimsy book, honestly. But he looks at that and he's like, this is a story about friendship, loyalty, betrayal. I get that. I understand that. Let me write in a girlfriend who breaks his heart because that, you know, I think will add to that element. And then you need a trope. to that element and need a trope yeah right need a trope and it's like he's really effective but that is kind of where you get a lot of this like

emotional arc that is not true i will say he is always like shot back at facebook by saying like look like half of the movie is these depositions and that's just lifted verbatim like an enormous amount of it or his like the blogging that he does when he's making face smash. Like a lot of that is verbatim. And it's like the fact that they're drinking Beck's beers. Like that was in Mark Zuckerberg's blog post. And that's why they drink Beck's beers in the movie. Do we think that the blog about the girl that he dated was?

That part is. Okay. I was like, God, that was terrible. That was one of the things I was like, God, if this movie were made today,

I know we're going to get there. I'm like, you would say that was kind of hurtful if it was about you. And when we when I write the movie, it will you will be there. Yeah, I think also like you guys raised the ads thing and they are they get this like half right and half wrong. They are right that web startups like Facebook at this time are not putting any emphasis on that. They're putting all of their emphasis on gross, but they're completely wrong about the reason why. Like Sean Parker's whole thing about like ads aren't cool. That has nothing to do with why they didn't have ads. They don't care about that. It was just because the like financial model then

was you're trying to build a startup to sell or go public. So you just put all your resources into growing your user base i had written down like the idea that uh zuckerberg was like so anti-advertising even at the beginning it just seems hard to swallow it especially now when you look at the facebook.com doesn't really track that he thinks ads are uncool does it um oh also the idea that facebook's big success was from its exclusivity is like not really true I guess they had to figure they had to explain why Facebook took off when like MySpace and Friendster didn't and so that's why that was the excuse they did well that is what I that's what's so wild about watching it now knowing this story is that like the the point at which the movie goes through like 2005 facebook

is actually not that successful compared to facebook and myspace it's actually like one of the smallest social networks and part of the reason it didn't get bigger was because at one point they realized our exclusivity model is like not working and it's not a good business strategy and they had to do this huge pivot in 2006 and 7 where they came up with the news feed which is actually how they became successful oh my god i hated the news feed were you in one of the fuck news feed facebook groups i um i'm gonna say that i've never been i think maybe i was in one facebook group i um i think a lot of social media is um lame like i even like when it came out i'm like no i'm not gonna do that well we're very pro-social media here. Oh, good.

Perfect. I did like Tumblr. I was a Tumblr gal back in the day. Where's the Tumblr movie? Anyway, what are some of the smallest things that the movie gets wrong? Like little things that got under your skin or annoyed you? Let me kick us off with one. The idea that rowing crew is cool.

That's not correct. That's not true. I don't know. They that rowing crew is cool that's not correct that's not true um i don't know they made it look kind of cool that's why it's a lie but they did make it look cool it's terrible no it's cool i don't know i'm just i can't say anything about this because um emily rode crew and really yeah she was okay i take it back my uh my my ruined co-host alison leiby rode through and in college as well so well. I always felt the crew people woke up so early. They did. It was like 4 a.m. I had a bunch of crew people

on my hall and I was like, what are you doing? This can't be that fun. Why would you do that? So I was a college senior at a nearby Massachusetts college in 2003.

Just outside of Boston? Just outside of Boston. Well, holy cross. We didn't have parties like that. The parties seemed a little too fun for Harvard. Well, I was not in a Harvard punch club or whatever they're called. holy cross we didn't have parties like the parties seemed a little too fun for harvard

well i i was not in a harvard punch club or whatever they're called so i yeah finals club finals club i gotta i gotta ask some people but like that seemed a little little too fun it's maybe just didn't get the invite i think our school was just lame it could have just i went to notre dame so i feel like every every was just, how drunk can you possibly get and fall into a snow bank? Well, that makes sense. Yeah, yeah, yeah. There's a lot of that, so. Notre Dame, that makes sense.

Yeah. Yeah, my picture of Notre Dame parties is like sawdust on the ground. Pretty much. Catholic Church and alcoholism. Well, that's a whole other episode. I think for me, just to go back to the female characters, like there were just certain interactions where i'm like girl you could have already you could have tried a little harder um there's one where uh sean parker has women over and they're like playing a video game and he's on the phone and she goes we're just shooting each other and he says we used to speak kamikazes they go like we know what that is i'm

like i'm sure these women have played a video game they live in silicon valley you're hanging out with guys i'm sure it has come up and just like uh sean parker's interaction with dakota johnson where like she has no idea what his name is like they had no conversation and i was like i'm not saying that has never happened but i'm saying if you wake up and you're like i don't even know this man's name like i don't know what he does i have no memory of her like that's actually more distressing and to be like wow i fuck the guy invented napster it's, maybe you have that. Maybe when you tell your girlfriends, you're like, oh, my God, that guy invented Napster.

But, like, it's just a moment of, like, so, what's your name? Like, who are you? Like, that interaction was a fantasy created by Eric Sorkin. Also, the idea that circa 2003, Sean Parker is going to a college party and not immediately telling everyone that he's Sean Parker. I know. Yeah, he just sort of slips in there. Yeah, Come on. Do we think that like there were too many people using laptops everywhere in 2003?

Interesting point. Because like I was a senior in 2003 and it was definitely like in my dorm room. Did you have to be- But I wasn't like walking all over campus. Yeah. I had a desktop in 03. Yeah. I went to, I was 2002 to 2006 and I feel like I had a laptop

my freshman year but I had to carry around like a gigantic ethernet cord we were still on ethernet so it would be like a 30 foot cord you'd be in the library

like trying to find it and then by the end we had wifi but I do that's a good point like I wouldn't have brought my laptop everywhere like I do now

I remember them showing up in classes around like oh three or four really so another thing the movie got wrong this actually also on sean parker he has to his credit said quote the movie is complete fiction there are no victoria's secret models in silicon valley oh my god definitely that is very funny

uh i did like i kind of i took that portrayal of like sean, the rock star, as just trying to dramatize the idea that he's a big deal in this world. But when the fourth underwear model shows up, it is like, okay, come on. This is not real. Yeah, that's sort of what I was getting at with the parties in general at Harvard. I don't think that was happening at Harvard either. I looked it up. Teddy Roosevelt turns out not elected president because he belonged to a Harvard student club. Who knows?

Also, I do not think that Mark Zuckerberg was that funny as he is portrayed to be in the deposition. He's really funny. I agree. He's getting off one liner. He's just riffing on him. Like the scene in the deposition where the lawyer is like, oh, it's 18,000 for this. And that comes out to 19,000. And Zuckerberg is like, yes, I got the same thing.

I just don't think he's ripping it off like that. I do think this seems like a line he should say where he says, you know, money is not a big part of my life right now, but just know that I can buy and sell you. There's something about it where it's like, well, it's obviously a big part

because you would say that and you know that that's true. Like, it's like, I don't care about money, but I could own your house. Yeah. Like, there's something about that that I feel about money, but I could own your house. Right, yeah. Like, there's something about that that I feel like... I wonder if that was actually from the deposition notes. Yeah, that felt like, of a piece for him. It did, yeah. Okay, what are moments

that you all most related to personally from the movie Hallie? Was it having an awkward conversation over a Facebook relationship status? I'm trying to think. I guess there you know that when he the moment where he realizes it should say single or whatever you can put your relationship status when that guy comes to ask him questions about his classmate i was like wow that really was such a change in how dating works and social life works yeah where it's like oh yeah

now i can just find out information about someone before I ever meet them, which then I don't think necessarily like the exchange is like you are not forced to like develop the social skills and like the ability to talk to somebody. But just seeing that moment of like, can I get all this information about someone before I meet up with them? I feel like at that age, especially there was something about that that I would have was like, of course, that's genius. You know, I mean, I don't have to emotionally risk anything.

So I will get all this information from Facebook. So, of course, that's genius. You know what I mean? I don't want to have to emotionally risk anything. So I will get all this information from Facebook. So of course it became successful. Nobody wants to be vulnerable. And so that spoke to me, I think. I was going to say the exact same thing. That moment of realizing, oh, I live inside the Facebook panopticon now and I am going to be there for the rest of my life.

We all are. Yes. So there was a graph going around this week where they're like, oh my God, like basically it god like like basically it was like oh how do people meet it's like online in real life in school at jobs or whatever and one of them it was like 2020 and it was online and everyone's like wow everyone meets online like what happened in 2020 that may have made it uh the primary like it was like oh this

is a great example of how people read a graph wrong or it's like it's not the internet it's that everyone was inside and we didn't understand how to interact with each other. Of course you had to meet people online. John, what about you? People at Harvard being absolute dickbags. Yeah, suck. Just absolute. Just extremely relatable.

Oh, yeah. Because if you were around the corner, you were going. Oh, no. And they did a great job with the Winklevoss twins. That scene where he's like, he's giving us the finger in the Crimson. Yeah. Like it's the fucking New York time. I have definitely heard.

Look, I talk way too much about being on my student newspaper. But yes, there's a specific thing about like people who work at the Harvard Crimson College still talk about it. And it's like, come on, guys. Yes. That's a great call. But also, again, because I was a senior in college when this takes place. So I was like, I was a senior in 2003. college still talk about it and it's like who gives a shit yes that's a great but also again because i was a senior in college when this takes place so i was like i was a senior 2003 and it was that moment in tech like in being online and not being very online where when they when he's at the

party and then he goes home and he's then you go online yeah just like having that divide that we don't have anymore because we didn't have cell phones or we didn't bring our cell phones out. And so you'd like make plans on we used instant messenger at the time. And like, like, I am everyone. We're going to a party. And then you go and you have your good time and you're totally disconnected from the Internet. And then everyone comes back home late night. And then you like text everyone.

You're like, where were you? We're jammed up this that and that. That was like that. I really enjoyed that window. And when we had the internet but we didn't have the smartphone me too that's the that's the balance and also i feel like if we took that and we also took the couple years where we could have websites and people would be paid to write for them and you because i feel like there were those years where it's like all these great sites like personal essays like actual writing and now no one can make those websites don't even exist

like when i when i first started, like I was freelance. So it didn't make a lot of money, but I made enough money to like live, have a roommate in like a terrible apartment. But it's like, oh, if you're 24 now, those don't exist. Like you can't make one hundred dollars or whatever. And I miss websites. They were a good. I enjoyed them. We all read them.

I really related to this scene where all the kids are competing for the Facebook internship by having to code while taking shots. That, of course, is how I got my job here at Crooked Media. Right. Exactly. Yeah. It was doing vodka. The other guy died.

Yeah. R.I.P. I remember, Hallie, you were there screaming at me, take a shot, take a shot. Right. I didn't even know it was an interview. I was just like. You were just there. Yeah. People were partying there. It was a shot ski. There was i didn't even know it was an interview you were just there yeah

it was a shot ski there was just like a whole bunch of people lined up and then everyone yeah but everybody really liked my takes so here you are uh i also really related to the moment uh towards the end eduardo saverin showing up at the facebook headquarters saying he didn't know whether to dress for the business meeting or the work party and ending up really unhappy with the result. That's very funny. Totally resonated with me. Yeah. And showing up at a lame-ass frat party in college and knowing that people are having so much fun probably somewhere else.

Yeah. But also, I've had a few of those moments. Yeah, that is a very, like, oh, no, I picked the wrong part. Yeah, and I got a headdress, my fucking straw hat here. Okay, most unintentionally revealing moment, like something in the movie that we think speaks to something outside of the movie, but it didn't maybe intend to. I can kick us off with one. So this scene where they're like in the dorm and Zuckerberg is kind of like getting the crew together for the first time. And he's like hiring Chris Hughes and Dustin Makovits and saying like, here's going to be your roles and shares in the company. And then the two girls in the dorm room ask if they can help out.

And he turns to them and he says, no, that's Silicon Valley, baby. Yeah. Also, they it looks just like Chris Hughes, the person that they got for the play of Chris Hughes, who I ended up working with in the Obama campaign. So it was very interesting to watch this movie because I'm like, oh, there's Chris. But they don't have him say like anything. He has like two lines. Honestly, best favor they could have done for him. I know.

Get out unscathed. I also thought the idea that like this big $65 million IP theft settlement for this lawsuit is a speeding ticket, as Rashida Jones says, either turned out to be pretty prescient for the future of 20 years of United States and European Union regulatory funds. Oh, yeah. Yeah, that's very true. I thought the exchange, and I think we have a clip of this, between Zuckerberg and Erica, who's the girl he broke up with at the beginning of the movie, played by Rooney Mara. I thought this was very revealing. I don't know if you heard about this new website I launched.

No. The Facebook. You called me a bitch on the internet, Mark. That's why I wanted to talk to you. On the internet. That's why I came over. Comparing women to farm animals. I didn't end up doing that.

I didn't stop you from writing it. As if every thought that tumbles through your head was so clever it would be a crime for it not to be shared. The internet's not written in pencil, it's written in ink and you published that erica albright was a bitch right before you made some ignorant crack about my family's name my bra size and then rated women based on their hotness erica is there a problem no there's no problem you write your snide bullshit from a dark room because that's what the angry do nowadays it's a great scene the entire problem with social media and where we are today right there is if every thought that tumbles through your head was so clever it would be a crime for it not to be shared you write your

snide bullshit from a dark room because that's what the angry do nowadays yeah that's it we're all there that plays in your head every time you read a tweet on any subject. The thoughts in our head do not have to be public. Right. Especially the really mean ones. We don't all need to know what everyone's thinking all the time. Yeah. Yeah. It was great.

Unless you're a podcaster. Unless you're. Keep listening. Yeah. Yeah. It makes me think of. So I keep downloading and deleting TikTok just because I spend so much too much time on it, you know?

Oh, yeah. And I realize one of the reasons or one time I deleted it is like, oh, my algorithm had calculated itself based on what I'm watching. And what I'm watching is, or want to watch, I guess, subconsciously is like people replying to mean comments because it makes me mad. And I'm like, yeah, they made a good point. And then it's like, well, I can't do, I don't want to do this all day. You know, it's like, oh, I, but I am watching this because I enjoy somebody like, you know,

snapping back at somebody. But that is the problem is like, oh, it creates the content circle. It's like so being mean then becomes a content. So then it encourages it. So then it's like I do think people are like, I want to be involved or, you know, like to get someone to reply to my comment. I has to be mean or whatever. Like I'm I'm there. I'm being acknowledged in some way. My my thing that was unintentionally revealing is the overall idea that going to Harvard, it means you're smart and that it is somehow cool.

And I think that's what's so hard is watching this. I'm like, I don't care about any of this. I don't care about the clubs. I don't like, it's like everything they're saying, I'm like, nope, nope, nope. But what I, it makes me think of how, you know, Ron DeSantis went to Yale and Harvard. And it's like

these uh organizations like train you to be successful in this world like you were being trained to be successful in a world dominated by the ivies right and those that doesn't require you to be perhaps and again I maybe this is because I went to like a religious school so like we constantly I I had to take like catholic social teaching and like I you like there was so much more like you have to do something like in reflective. Obviously, you know, we took abortion away. Sorry, everybody. Like it's like the Catholics are fucked up. But like there is this idea of like you have to be introspective in some regard.

And this is like, no, this is about being able to be successful in a world dominated by people who have been also groomed in the Ivies. And I don't care. Like I think it's important to point out ivies and i don't care like it's like i think it's important to point out and then i don't want to watch them in iraq like i'm like i got it we all know that's true what else what else is there but i think that's why again why they had to be about like uh jilted you know about friendships and stuff it's like it has to be grounded because otherwise it's like just some fucking rich assholes yeah i know you know like how do we make it interesting sounds like someone didn't get punched by the Purcellian Club.

That's really, you're really taking it out on them. The whole, Notre Dame was one Purcellian Club. Run by the Pope. What do we think was this movie's biggest real world impact?

I feel like there's a lot. Yeah, I mean, I wonder how much it told other would-be founders that it was okay to act like a complete asshole as long as you're a genius who wants to make money and doesn't mind having no friends. Yeah. I think it tells you that you're supposed to do that.

And that if you're ruthless and mean and obnoxious in an interpersonal context that that's – and if you talk to people in Silicon Valley, they will talk about like that's a huge problem. A lot of people grew up on this movie and thought that's how I'm supposed to behave. If I'm a jerk, it means that I'm like brutally honest and an efficient coder. Yeah. And also Mark Zuckerberg was very worried how people that people would think that this movie is the real him. He was correct to worry. Yeah. Because it did form an impression.

Yeah. You know. Right. Was it 2016 when he started doing his big tour that he was going to like maybe run for president? Oh my God. Yeah. Right. Was it 2016 when he started doing his big tour that he was going to like maybe run for president? Oh, my God. Yeah. I guess the movie was still a lot nearer then. But I think you're right. I think that people still, even with everything terrible that has happened, like he's done so much that is so worse. Yeah. He has done so much since this movie that is so much worse than anything depicted in this movie, like fomented genocide.

But it is funny that our image of him is still like, well, he was really mean to Rooney Mara. Right, yeah. I do think that this movie did also like help to make us skeptical when a few years after this in the 2010s, the tech founders and the tech people started being like, no, we're here to like bring revolutions and freedom and we're going to like take us to the next stage in human evolution.

I think there was a like we had a lot of reasons to be skeptical of that. But I think this movie helped us to see like these are just kids who are like really good at a few specific things, but they are not the like saviors of humanity. They promised to be and who are like all wrestling with some kind of demons. Yeah. You know, and now we all have to deal with it. Right. Yeah. And if you're if you're not if you don't have some door to. Yeah. You know, and now we all have to deal with it. Right. Yeah. And if you're not, if you don't have some door to the conversation, you know,

and I appreciate working at Crooked where it's like, we're at least having a conversation about the idea that this, that there is some value to blind ambition

or blind, like, just success for success's sake. I feel like we're kind of also past. Like, because I feel like,

oh, move fast and break things. It's like, well, clearly some of those things shouldn't have been broken and were in fact established over decades for a reason.

And the idea of like one person or like one person's idea of it, we shouldn't be driven by that just like we shouldn't be driven by that in politics that we have the same issue where it's like that guy, we all have to live in a world

that that guy made, but we do. Yeah. I do wonder if we had to unlearn one of the lessons of this movie, which is that like you like you guys were both say before that like Facebook's rise is just a fun success story. And Facebook is just like a fun website whose biggest harm is that it's addictive.

Right. It did take us, I think, a while to like get around to the idea that this is actually kind of harmful. Yeah, for sure. How did you have anything else for? No, I think that makes total sense. It's sort of like, well, I guess in some ways what feels interesting about it is like

this is a depiction of somebody as an asshole early in his career, and it didn't really matter. Like, it didn't matter. Yeah, right, he was okay. Yeah, and that, again, feels weird for a biopic, but also that is what the world is now. Like, people do horrible things, and then it's like, oh, did you see, what was that guy's name milo the like milo yiannopoulos is um

i hate that we both know no isn't really yeah and so just like huh well i guess there's really a place for everyone it's like you can't disgrace yourself you can't be too much of an asshole you can't embarrass yourself oh unless you are on our side where people do actually care. And that's fundamentally our problem is that we do care. We are trying. But it's like Mark Zuckerberg, he doesn't have to care about any of this. He's going to dig up compound and his family's going to live in it. And it's like, okay, dude, I don't know. We'll see him in New Zealand.

But is he really happy there? He seems pretty happy, actually. I don't know. That would be a good, I know the next question is what would be different came out today. Like an end scene with him and his compound, but there's no one around and he's got that smile on,

but you can see from the smile that he's not genuinely happy and he feels sort of empty inside. I love that. So the question we're answering now,

the last question, how would this movie be different if it came out today? I love that, that it ends with him, like the climate apocalypse has come.

Is he in Hawaii or New Zealand? I think he bought Hawaiiaii okay yeah that's right 300 feet underground and he's got all of his money but you know what he said inside the founders are hurting you guys and he's still he's still refreshing his page waiting for rooney let me tell you one thing that would be different in this movie came out today nobody would be fucking impressed with 22 000000 hits on a website. Oh, I know. When they said that, I was like, wow. What a simpler time. I know.

I think you, over like a billion dollar valuation, it's like, come on. People are not interested in that. Yeah. I think if it came out today, I think I misunderstood this question, but I was like, oh, if it came out today, at the end, you'd see Elon Musk. And we'd understand this was a gateway to a different conversation. Because again, I just think Elon Musk is the most cartoonish, out loud version of this. His life is constantly- Oh, you think if they remade the social network today, it would be about Elon Musk?

It would have to be an acknowledgement of what came after. It would connect to the idea that this was foundationally what now has been built on top of it versus like this is a standalone singular guy. It's like, no, there's a lot of these guys. It's so funny you said that. I had that. I had that note, which is that like if it was and I also thought it was like if it was made today, the same movie made today, he would like meet Elon Musk at some point. Yes, at the end. Just like as a character.

Well, Airporters. This is the thing. Peter Thiel is in this movie. Yeah. Oh, I forgot about that. Peter Thiel is in this movie. Peter Thiel is in the movie and he's just presented. He's an angel investor. Right.

He's an angel investor and he's just presented and he's like a competent businessman who doesn't say anything absolutely deranged about race or racism or doesn't say that he wants to take away democracy,

which Peter Thiel does. And that is like one thing that I was really struck by. It's like, oh, we didn't know that. And I think this speaks to like Elon Musk not being in it, too. We didn't know that it was the money guys who were kind of the real villain. It is deeply ironic that he is an angel investor.

And later at the end, Rashida's character says every creation myth needs a devil. Yeah. There's there's Peter Thiel. He's just sprinkling some fairy dust. I also thought if they made this today, that last scene at the end when Mark Zuckerberg is pulling up Rooney Mara's Facebook page, I think that he would find that she had been radicalized by QAnon. I think she's definitely saying trust the plan. She's posting photos of Obama saying he's a buddy double. Absolutely.

I think that it would include a scene where two Harvard kids beat the shit out of each other because of some unverified rumor that one of them started on Facebook and loved the other. Because that's just to sort of just to kind of foreshadow the genocide that it would foment later. Oh, I see. I like little references. One of them gets really upset about the Rohingya

at some point. I think if it came out today, we'd have a woman with a last name. I think there'd be a little more i don't know who it is but there's a little more i don't know we've come a far away i don't know how far we've yeah no you're right and i want but i love i love your optimism uh what do we think is the company this would be made about if you were making like a version of the social network today is it the winklevoss Bitcoin billionaire movie?

It's X. I'm sorry. It is Elon Musk up at three in the morning. It's right when he bought it. I do want to see that. Right. It's him tormenting these horrible, like these engineers who I'm sure all very complicated.

It's like you were putting these people and it's like just him sleeping with all the lights on at like three in the morning in the X where he lives, and his 13 kids are somewhere, or 11 kids are somewhere else. You know what I mean? And you know what I'd love to see that movie from the perspective of? Forget about Elon. Like, just some engineer

at Twitter. Yes. Who's just sort of like hung on by accident. The Eduardo Saverin of the, guys, this is a great idea. I know. Who do we think is playing?

I'm sure it's being made already. Who's making, who's playing Elon Musk? Oh. I think Glenn Howerton in blackberry great excellent perfect perfect with the hair plugs it would look amazing and who's playing linda yaccarino is really the question uh kristen wick i was yes i was just gonna say kristen wick

i was literally trying to remember her name perfect perfect we're casting come on guys kristen wick glenn howerton if anyone if. If anyone in Hollywood is listening who has any juice. You're just going to steal it. Unless it's Aaron Sorkin. Sorry. Mr. Sorkin. Sorry we said all that stuff. He writes a good screenplay.

I'll give it to him. He does. Okay. We are going to finish this off with something we are calling true or false. I'm going to read out a series of rapid fire quotes or plot points in the movies. And then you all tell me if it is true or false. True or false, John, quote,

we lived on farms, then we lived in cities, and now we're going to live on the internet. True. Hallie? True. Yeah. I think it's true in like the context of the movie and the like they believe it's true.

Yeah. I still do live in a city. Well, I also think like if you're 13, I i don't know i just feel like if you're younger i feel like there will be a move away from like even more so than now like move from social media i feel like we're going to have the backlash it's not going to be we will be living less online i think really god wow that's so optimistic i don't think it's even optimism. I think it's like, I feel like it's losing its novelty. I feel like it is pressing the same button

over and over again and people are going to want to see, I don't know, live theater. I don't know. I believe that people need art and you can't get art necessarily on Twitter. I love this take. The X movie is actually a play.

And then Aaron Sorkin should write it because this is a play that he wrote. Yeah. That's true. Yeah. Okay. Hallie,

quote, they don't have roads in Bosnia, but they have Facebook. True or false? Absolutely. Yes. Oh, wait. I'm trying to remember

what you said. No, it's not true. They have roads in Bosnia. What did he get this? Oh, that was when Sheet Jones said that. Yes. Yes.

It is in the, it's not factually true, but it is in, true it is in the movie. Yes. Also, it was 2003. Why did they not factually true, but it is in, true, it is in the movie. Yes. Also, it was 2003. Why did they not have, yeah.

I know. It's like, is Aaron Sorkin like a hardcore Serbian nationalist now? Did Rock Lomatic like write this movie? What did Bosnia do?

That's so funny. Can you imagine being in a theater in Bosnia and seeing that line and being like, hey, how did I get here? I drove in my car on the road to, what are you talking about? It's a wild shot at Bosnia and seeing that line and being like, Hey, how did I get here? I drove in my car in a road to, what are you

talking about? Wild shot at Bosnia. John, true or false, I can never get enough of cats that look like Hitler. False. I don't need any cats that look like Hitler. Yeah, I agree. That feels like a relic of the early 2000s. I was addicted to that, but the

internet had better stuff in store for us. Hallie, true or false? Quote, in a world where social structure is everything, Facebook was the thing. Here, I'm just going to give you my answer. I don't know what this quote means. Yeah, I was going to say true. I don't know. It is delivered with so much authority. I don't know what it means.

Can you read it one more time? In a world where social structure is everything, Facebook was the thing. I'm going to say yes, but also I don't know what it means. Can you read it one more time? In a world where social structure is everything, Facebook was the thing. I'm going to say yes, but also I don't understand it. That's the Aaron Sorkin magic. That's Aaron Sorkin. He is absolutely right and you don't know what the fuck it is. It's trying to say that

being on Facebook makes you cool? I don't know, but it was in the desert. Is that ever the case? John, true or false, dating Mark Zuckerberg would be like dating a Stairmaster. I mean, I think it's generous. Stairmaster's good for you? Right. Stairmasters have some redeeming value.

Wow. Wow. Oh, my God. I think he seems like he's probably- Being absurdly wealthy? He's probably a perfectly fine husband. I'm sure he's a perfectly fine... I'm sure he's a wonderful father.

We have no way of knowing that. When people say that, it's like, we don't know anything. I'd like to... Aspirationally, I would like to... And the fact that you said that he was with his now wife, I want that two-hander because they're like, what was she doing? I mean, clearly she was a supportive figure in his life while this is happening. So one, to not have her in it is weird.

But also, I was like, she's also probably an interesting lady. Like she's probably a very ambitious, smart person to end up with him. Not that they can't have a soul connection, but also, you know, let's get real here. She runs their foundation. She's very, yeah. So I feel like that's the other version of this is like, oh, they were already together and he was doing that. That's fascinating.

So I'm going to say that this quote is false. I think that that was just like an Aaron Sorkin thing. I think that Mark Zuckerberg does not talk at double speed. No, no one does except Aaron Sorkin. Characters. Yeah, yeah.

I think that dating Mark Zuckerberg would be like dating the Roman history subreddit. I think that's what it would be like. Hallie, true or false, if you were the inventor

of Facebook, you would have invented Facebook. That is true. That is 100% true. I think that's true. I think that's true. We could all agree on that. That was a good burn of Facebook, you would have invented Facebook. That is true. That is 100% true. I think that's true. We can all agree on that. That was a good burn. Yeah, yeah.

It was excellent. John, it's the last one. True or false, I know we already addressed this, but we got to address it again. You write your snide bullshit from a dark room because that's what the angry do nowadays. Yes, yes, they do. Not just the angry.

That's what everyone does. That's true. The bored. Yeah, and light rooms. The peeing. Light rooms rooms dark rooms yeah in the middle of the street in an office yeah in a crosswalk yeah driving their cars in la i'll tell you yeah oh my god they're not even there's not one eye up you know yeah yeah they're they're it's road rage and uh internet rage at the same time uh okay true or false, you can't make 500 million friends

without making a few enemies. I'm going to say false. I'm going to say false. I think that you can just start a website. Yeah, it's fine. I'm going to say false because you can't make 500 million friends. Yeah, that's a real problem.

What the fuck are we talking about? Yeah, yeah. That is a problem. Oh, it's a friend on Facebook. These aren't real connections. That's the whole problem. I also think it speaks to the movie's ethos or Mark Zuckerberg's

seeming ethos where it's like, you're either my friend or my enemy. It's like, most people are just hanging out. They don't give a shit.

Yeah, so like most people, you don't have to have strong opinions about. Well, there was a part of the movie where he's like, when he's like yelling

at Eduardo when he freezes the account and he was like, I can't go back. I can't go back to not going to those parties and I can't go back to not going to those parties and I can't go back to this. And I'm like, that rings true. This feeling that like,

look at all the stuff I did. Look at the attention I'm getting. All that. Like, people like me now. And I don't want to go back to that. It's not healthy to be that successful that young. I don't think it's good for your brain. I would say the nice thing about, because I'm turning 40 this year, the nice thing is being like, thank you. It's in May, though. We have a couple months. But what's interesting is sort of like,

I don't care anymore. And what a gift to be like, I don't care about a party I'm not invited to. I've already done it and I already stressed about it when I was younger. And then I reached an age of like, I've been to a party. I know what I'm missing.

Maybe it was a really good one, but probably it was just normal. And to be free of that stress is so nice. It is. Yeah. You shouldn't free of that, like, stress is so nice. It is. Yeah. You shouldn't be allowed to start a giant social media company unless you're 40 or above. I think that's my big takeaway from this movie. Absolutely.

All right, pals. That was it. That was fun. First ever Offline Movie Club. We are thinking about doing more of these. So if you liked it, please let us know at Offline at Crooked.com. And we will see you next time. Bye.

Offline is a Crooked Media production. It's written and hosted by me, Jon Favreau, along with Max Fisher. It's produced by Austin Fisher. Emma Illich-Frank is our associate producer. Mixed and edited by Jordan Cantor. Audio support from Kyle Seglin and Charlotte Landis. Jordan Katz and Kenny Siegel take care of our music. Thanks to Ari Schwartz, Madeline Herringer,

and Reid Cherland for production support. And to our digital team, Elijah Cohn and Dilan Villanueva, who film and share our episodes as videos every week.