Offline with Jon Favreau - How "Zola" Explains Social Media Brain

Episode Date: September 5, 2024

Has there ever been a more dramatic Twitter thread than A’Ziah King’s 2015 saga about a roadtrip turned kidnapping? Erin Ryan and Josie Duffy Rice join Max to discuss “Zola,” the movie adaptation of those tweets. The film tells the (mostly true) story of a young stripper getting whisked away to Florida by a new acquaintance and her pimp. Its searing commentary on sex trafficking is studded with notification sounds and social media soliloquies, to both sinister and comedic effect. Are Florida roadtrips ever a good idea? What are the hallmarks of toxic white girls? And how much of the original post was really true? Listen to this week’s Offline Movie Club to find out. For a closed-captioned version of this episode, click here. For a transcript of this episode, please email [e-mail] and include the name of the podcast. 

This does feel like the rare case of a Twitter thread that is about something that is very serious and does have things that are really dark and sad about it, but is also just a fun ride. Right. Well, how about like an RFK Jr. documentary or like a TV series, a limited series about all of his very weird adventures? Who's going to play the brain worm? Adventures. I think David Schwimmer. David Schwimmer is the brain worm. David Schwimmer is 100% the brain worm. Absolutely. I'm Max Fisher.

I'm Erin Ryan. And joining us, Josie Duffy Rice from What A Day and so many other things. Josie, so happy to have you on. I am thrilled to be here. What a dream. It is a dream. This is the Offline Movie Club. Every week we discuss one of our favorite movies and how it reflects or shapes how we think about technology and the internet. This week we are talking about one of my favorites. I am so excited to talk about this movie, Zola, the 2021 film for

anyone who has ever asked, why are you on my Twitter? Why are you on my Tumblr? So good. It's the first ever movie adapted from tweets and honestly, probably the last now that Elon Musk is running that service into the ground, which is maybe a curse, maybe a blessing. I mean, the next birth of a nation,

whatever that is, will be based on things that are currently happening on X. It's true, yes. With Cat Turd too in the title true, yes. With Cat Turd, too, in the title role. Yes, starring Cat Turd. Well, I am excited for an hour of pointing to the podcast and saying, whose is this?

Josie, let's start with you. What do you think makes this movie important for how we think about technology and the internet? Well, I was trying to remember. I was trying to think if there's ever been a more viral, like crazy viral thread than the Zola thread. Do you y'all remember the zola thread like whatever i have to be honest i missed it when it happened it consumed it was my life for like three days it was a lot of people's lives yeah yeah it felt like something so new and crazy it was like so

unprecedented it was so fun that was when twitter was like kind of fun. And it was also like an era when I feel like we didn't know as much as we do about everybody all of the time. So it still felt kind of like a new, a new crazy story. that's a great point that is something that is very novel about that particular moment 2015 i remember so many viral moments and then like do you all remember walter palmer the dentist who shot cecil the lion oh yes this was like this was the era when it was like a reddit thread about it's a it's funny how big of a thing it became like a dentist shot a lion and it was like the same thing it consumed everybody's life for a few days. And we're like, looking up this guy's dental practice on Google Maps. And it seems like the Zola thread was part of what people were like looking up Jessica, her Facebook and her mom's Facebook. So yes, it was one of those first big moments of like, online is the monoculture and it's also real life. Mm hmm. It was also this thing where like, it was so off the cuff. Like, I feel like now when people

tell stories, long threaded stories, it's very, doesn't feel very authentic. It always feels very planned. Yeah, it feels very, yeah, it doesn't feel very authentic. It feels sort of like branding all of the time. And this was just some girl who was like, y'all want to hear a crazy story? Like literally. And then captured the internet for, you know, for days. Yeah. It also, it also like it's kind of reminding what you were saying, Josie, reminds me of why I don't like the moth story hour. Because nobody starts a story with like, I never thought about life the same way after that day. Like that's not how you, that's not how people talk to each other. So this, like you said, Josie, is how this, it felt like she was sitting there talking

to you or writing you something or getting a bunch of texts or something like that. It was from what felt like a really pivotal moment where it's like the internet had become totally ubiquitous, but it had not yet become so like monetized and polished that everything felt like it was like a fake persona that somebody was trying to sell us for cash. Right. And we just didn't really, I mean, I guess we sort of knew what, how bad the internet could be, how it could ruin someone's life. But it was not yet at a point where it's like oh i'm gonna tweet this and you know it'll follow me forever it still sort of felt like you could slip through the cracks which i feel like now is that ship has sailed yeah i don't think i at this point appreciated the power of the like this was kind of the start of gamergate too like it was

the moment when it was like starting to become to become, like, a force in our politics, like, the crazy shit that would happen on the internet. But it was not until, like, a year or two later when Trump got elected that I started to take it more seriously. But what's the, like, the official Russian pronunciation of Gamergate? Because we should use, like, the intended... Gamergatsiya?

Yeah, probably. You know, the thing that I realized when I was watching this is that, first of all, it's like a it's a movie about the world's oldest profession, right? Using the world's newest technology, right? And it's kind of a funny juxtaposition. But it's also it also reminded me of how authenticity cannot be faked. Like you can't you you and it's such a commodity when you encounter something that is authentically wild this voice was an authentic person's voice she didn't seem like she was putting anything on it's like oh this is just how this person talks and communicates

and despite the fact that at the time the slang that she was using was not widely used it felt like you got a sort of, you got to peek in and be like, oh, I'm a part of this now too. I get to LARP like I'm involved in this story. I get to LARP as this like really fun, confident stripper's friend. And it's a new way that storytelling can make the people taking in the story feel like they're participating in it. Yeah, it does. Something about the way that she told the story really does pull you into that world. And you really do feel like you're right.

And the fact that you're reading it in real time as she is posting these tweets over like six or seven hours makes you feel like you're kind of living the story with her. I have to be honest. I when I first heard about this movie was really turned off by the premise. I was like, it's adapted from tweets like what a dumb gimmick like that's so lame. And it I didn't watch it until last year because I kept hearing from friends who worked in film or were like big movie nerds who were like, no, you need to watch this movie. It's a really good the woman who directed Janicza Bravo is like she's really got a lot to say. It's much more clever and interesting than you think it is. And I really think that even though this is not a movie that is about being online, it's about sex work and sex trafficking, but I do think it is one of the best portrayals I have seen in a movie of living on social media

and living on the internet. Zola, Stephanieie and derek they're all extremely online they all have like multiple crisscrossing personas and these different apps that they're on and these like stories that they're all telling simultaneously on these platforms all collide with the real world in a way that like really resonates um and it's also like the movie itself is a product of the online stories and real world stories colliding because it's like Zola told this Twitter thread, but it's half adapted from the Twitter thread. It's half adapted from a magazine piece that was like re-reporting it. There's differences in the stories. And it's like so much in the movie. We are watching these characters construct personas, which is what you do online.

And it's what Zola did when she posted that viral thread that became the movie. And it's about like performing a narrative. It's about performing an identity. Tanixa Bravo has talked about how it is also about having a voice and storytelling for people who would not have agency over their own story anyway, which is like very online. I also, I love one of the first scenes in the movie we have a clip from. The first real conversation between Zola and Stephanie when they are bonding is about people being fake online. Like, why are you on my Twitter?

Why are you on my Facebook? Why are you on my Tumblr? Why are you DMing me? Sis, why are you tagging me in photos? You don't even fuck with me. Sis! Let me know. Sis!

Let me know. Yes, sis! Every three minutes, the movie is reminding you, like, by the way, this is about the phones. This is about the internet. Even if that's not, like, by the way, this is about the phones. This is about the Internet. Even if that's not, like, what the story is kind of frontally about. Yeah, the little Twitter sound effect that is constantly punctuating the phone. I thought that was a great, I was so glad that we didn't have her constantly turning to the camera and be like, and then I said this on my Twitter thread later. Like, it was just enough to kind of pull us in.

You know what's interesting, though? It's also like a very, there's something almost timeless about what happens in this movie in that it is so centered around social media, but you can see how you would make this movie 10 years ago or 20 years ago. I mean, like you said, it's the world, like you said, Aaron, it's the world's oldest profession.

And so it's both this like very interesting kind of like portrayal of how ubiquitous this social element is. And there's something about it that feels like it could be at any point. Like I'm like, this would be a really interesting movie they made in the 70s, right? Like, obviously, you're gonna have to pay phones, right? You're gonna need a whole different kind of way of communicating, but you are like the fundamental parts of like, I met someone random, went on a trip with them and came to quickly regret it or, you know, like work in all of these different contexts. Yeah. And Florida is the place where notoriously, seriously, girl friendships die in Florida. And I think Josie probably knows that. Absolutely correct. It is. If you go on a trip to Miami with your girlfriends, it's over. Somebody is going to not be friends by the time you leave. And is Tampa worse than that? Would you say?

I was there in 2012 for the Republican convention. It is. It's not a good place. It is. Well, we get that scene where they're driving down to Tampa and you really feel like you are transferring into another world and like another reality. And Florida does have that feel. All right,

well, let's get into it. Erin, what do you think is the biggest thing this movie gets right? This isn't necessarily about social media, but it does apply to social media because it sped up this process. But I think the movie does a really good job of showing us where culture is made in America and like where slang comes from. This thread is from 2015 and I was reading it again before we recorded just to prep. And she tweets like how teenagers talk now. And like the way that slang moves through American culture is like a lot of times marginalized people say it first, especially black women. And then it gets adapted by gay men. And then it gets adapted by gay men. And then it gets it like moves, it moves like that. And so I think that the film feels really timely,

even though it's based on original source material from like, how many years, nine years ago, but it feels like it is amazing how current it still feels. It feels very fresh. And I think that that's like the biggest thing that gets right. And social media has expedited that. Like we now, you know, it used to be in the 90s, I don't know, Paris is burning came out. And then several years later, slang that was being used by these LGBTQ black people became more mainstreamed. And this time, in this day and age, things just happen more quickly. You know, you have somebody sending a tweet storm in 2015. And by, you know, a few years later, everyone is right. It's totally absorbed in the bloodstream. Exactly. Josie, what do you think? What's the biggest thing the movie gets

right? The biggest thing the movie gets right is Florida. It's like, oh, my God, Aaron said is totally right. It's like, it there my God. Aaron said is totally right. It's like it. There's also this thing of like being in your 20s. I'm assuming they're kind of they're like in their 20s when you're making. I think they're like 18 and 19 in the story. OK, but even better. It's like you're making the dumbest decision.

But you but it's like interesting because Zola still has kind of the sense to be like, I don't need to be here. But I've obviously, like, I've done so many dumb things, but I do have a limit. It's like so just fascinating. It just reminded me, it truly reminded me. I was like, you know, because I grew up in Georgia. I'm like, how many times did I almost die in Florida? So many times. Like, what know, because I grew up in Georgia. I'm like, how many times did I almost die in Florida? So many times. Like, what was I doing?

Look, I've had good experiences in Florida and I've had bad experiences in Florida. But the vibes of Florida are not good vibes. It is sinister. Everything is like humid all the time. It's so chaotic. So chaotic. And in some ways, like really aggressively unsexy. Because even the scenes in like the strip club where, both of the actresses are absolutely beautiful.

But they figured out a way to film the stripping scenes in a way that were just kind of like, it's not a titillating stripper scene. It's not sad. It's not like, oh. It just feels a little grody. Yeah. You feel like you're a person in the strip club. And you have this, like, beautiful person on stage in this dingy environment. And so the whole experience feels, like, not sexy. I thought they conveyed that so well in just that one line where they have when she, Taylor Page's first stripping.

And they reverse shot to the guy who's giving her a tip. And he says, you look just like Whoopi Goldberg. And immediately you're like, I know what this place is. And like you notice the room is empty. And you're like, I understand what's going on here. And the look on her face, she's like, she understands what she's getting into. And it really does an incredible job of setting the scene. I saw this for the first time right around the same time I saw Harmony Korine's Spring Breakers.

Have you all seen that? Another Florida Clive. Spring Breakers. And James Franco, who was in that, was originally going to direct this. Which is, thank God, incredible bullet dodged on that one. I'm so glad that didn't happen. By Zola herself. Because Zola was like, I don't think I want all these white boys telling my story.

And then she was like, I don't think I want all these white boys telling my story. Right. And then she, yeah. She did a really, really good job selling this story and managing it where she has talked about she was under a lot of pressure after the tweet thread when she first sold the rights to it or was selling the rights to it that like you have to make the movie right away because it's going to age and you have to capture the audience for it. And she's talked about like she had a little money saved up and she was like, no, like they're trying to dangle this check in front of me to get me to like take the easy money right away. And she held out, she got two and a half percent of the profit. And she got an EP credit. And it was made by a great screenwriter, playwright and director. So she definitely made some good choices. She did a really excellent job. I hate the boss. Like I hate that phrase ology but she's really very much in control and smart and savvy very self-possessed which comes from her character yeah the movie I feel yeah and she's talked about how she was like she's of this world but a little

bit outside of it like she talks about like her mom is a paralegal so she was like she she had a choice like she didn't get into sex work which is the phrase she uses for it because she felt compelled to she got into it because she loved it And I think you feel that a little bit where she's like, she's there because she cares about it, but also is social media lives and real lives intersect and they were like they're constantly on their phones they're constantly like something will happen in the room and one of them will post about it to facebook and then the next scene their post will come back and have consequences in the room and like the way that those things reverberate back and forth is like certainly when you were in your 20s in the 2010s sounds very familiar but there's like there's catfishing in the movie.

There's doxing. There's like embellishment. There's people who like have these different personalities. It's just like I just thought it was an amazing. I had to watch it the second time to pick up on this portrayal of being online in the real world. I think that it also like on a meta level kind kind of captures the humor and darkness of just being on the internet. Because there's a clip

I wanted to play. It comes from the very last scene, so if you haven't seen the movie, I mean, it's not really spoiling anything. The final scene, they're all at X's house, which is funny because Twitter is now X. That kept occurring to me, too. It makes it that he is the personification of Twitter.

Yes. It definitely feels like it tracks a little bit now. Exactly. Although he was Z in the Twitter thread, but regardless. So this is the final scene and this is a moment where something really tragic is happening

and everyone is just laughing at it. Yo, I'm serious. I'm going to kill myself. Yo, I'm going to kill myself. Yo, I'm going to kill myself. Why you got to be so dramatic? Swear to God, Bible, this nigga fucking jumped. Okay, she did later say that he did not jump. Yes.

That was one of the embellished, but yeah, the way that they're like laughing at it as it's serious. Right, but like that's how we exist online. Like serious things are happening and people are like, ha ha ha. That's a great point. This is like, oh, isn't it funny that this happened? And it's like laughing at Trump tweets, even as you're horrified by them. Yeah, exactly. And even in the film, like the film is full of those moments where you're just like it's there's another clip with um with our buddy Derek

this is another example of like the experience of being online I think and this is from after Stephanie is abducted by a rival pimp and they are going back to retrieve her so there's this one. Guess who opens the door? The nigga Derek was doing magic wit at that nasty ass motel. Yo, I thought we were homies. We not. Okay, this is a super serious situation. There are guns. There is human trafficking.

There is like people could die. And then you have Derek saying, I thought we were homies. And like, it's funny, but it's. Cousin Greg, Cousin Greg as the comic relief is incredible. Yeah. Coleman Domingo. He is amazing. In this movie.

So good. So good. He is really. I had never. I had like seen him in a lot of things before like he's in lincoln like he popped up in a lot i know he did a lot in theater i haven't seen rustin yet but this is the first thing i saw where he's like really has a meaty role and it's like oh of course he won the oscar a year later is incredible he and riley keogh the way that they

play these like larger than life personas where you're like are these people real are they like performing a character is this really who they are do they even know the difference i just think it's so perfect and it's like the way that taylor page has to play against them is so great i just really great performance of the heart of it to like the meta online this of it there's another scene that i really love the room of mirrors which is the very first shot we see at the start of the movie where zola and stephanie are in this like they're surrounded by mirrors they're putting on makeup zola is speaking to the camera where she's like narrating her tweets it's got this feeling of unreality and we don't know at that moment it looks like a happy

scene and we only learned like three quarters into the movie it's like oh this is i think it's right before they go to that hotel at the very end. Like it's actually a really scary scene because Zola has been like forcibly enlisted into this. They're both facing this threat of violence. And like the metaphor of being in this room of mirrors and like, who are they? Like they don't know who each other is. They don't know who each other is. They don't know who they are themselves. And this sense of like not knowing how to navigate and that being like really scary and this mysteriousness of it. I also thought really works well for the Stephanie character, the Riley Keough character, which is like, is she a villain?

Is she a victim? Is she both? Does she know that just like everyone is so far falling down this rabbit hole of playing these different personalities for each other? They've kind of lost a sense of what's real and not real. It's really interesting because it's one thing I like about this movie is that it could be really sad and it's not. If you recount this movie, if you describe it to someone

it sounds like a tragic movie. It just doesn't sound like it has any lightness in it. And there is something kind of amazing about how it doesn't, that's not the tone

of the movie and you don't, I didn't feel like bad for these women the whole time or anything like that. It didn't feel, not,

I don't think it would be infantilizing to feel bad for them given the circumstances, but they, it's, it, they, you know they're going to be okay. There is some sense of like you're going to get out of this current situation all right.

In a way that I think is extremely well done. Because it's so easy to be heavy handed about some of this stuff in a way that ends up feeling moralizing. And here it's fun. It's a fun movie. Even though you're like what the fuck well zola when she first told the story it was on tumblr which as she had said was kind of her like original social media platform she was a big tumblr girly when she first told that story it was very serious and sad and she said that she wrote it right after she got back and she was processing what she'd been through, this horrific incident. And it was only six months later that she decided to tell it again on Twitter as kind of a farce and an adventure because it was a way to take possession of the story and have agency over it by telling it in a way where she was like laughing at it instead of being victimized by it, which is also what the movie is doing. It's about giving and taking voice on social media. And voice is like power because she is so powerless

throughout the story except for the fact that she's a storyteller. She gets to break the fourth wall and she doesn't cry until the very end. Like she doesn't like

lose control. So like I feel as though the movie does a good job of being like this is a person who is powerless in this really

fucked up situation who was able to take power back by telling the story by surviving and telling the story um yeah and there's actually we have a clip of her talking about it on a podcast like i told on tumblr the day like as soon as i got home right like dear diary right so like i sat my family down and i was like you guys this is what happened to me my mom she's so dramatic she's like crying did you live with her at the time she yes yeah she's like why didn't you down and I was like, you guys, this is what happened to me. My mom, she's so dramatic. She's like crying. Did you live with her at the time? Yes. She's like, why didn't you tell me?

I'm like, girl, I was coming home. It's okay. Yeah. So then after I started like processing it and I saw how she was just like devastated, I'm like, maybe it was a big deal. So then I went on Tumblr and like Tumblr is my diary. So I was just like, you guys will never guess what happened. And I just briefly told it.

I didn't like get in depth. You didn't say you want to hear a story about how me and this bitch fell out it wasn't there yet nothing was funny right i was still processing you were still like holy shit yeah it wasn't funny at all i was like i think i was kidnapped but i'm not sure right erin did you clock whose podcast that is who julia fox. I was listening to the same thing for research. I was like, oh, this is kind of a fun interview. I was like, why does this woman's voice sound familiar? And then I realized it's Julia Fox. I was like, why do I really, like, this person and I seem to not have that much in common, but I really like her.

Right, right. Oh, it's Julia Fox. I was just going to say, it's so funny how she's like, I came home and told this story to my mom. My mom's so dramatic. She started crying. It's like, I don't know if your mom's dramatic sad story I think it's like it would be really stressful to hear that like like no see we're work friends if you told me that story had happened to you I would probably start crying yeah I would be upset yeah yeah exactly it's just such a it's

such a 19 year old's reaction to be like she totally overreacted to me getting kidnapped. But also I think like being in the world of sex work, you have to probably develop it like an emotional removal from like what's happening to you or what's happening around you. Or you have to decide that you just don't care in the way that you would care if you were not getting paid to do it. So like, I think that that's an unintentionally, like, telling moment. Well, we should talk about the portrayal of sex work and sex trafficking. And we have another clip of the director, Janick Sabravo, talking about how she wanted to make the movie feel really claustrophobic.

And I didn't even notice this until I heard her in an interview, that it's a lot of really tight, close shots throughout the movie that is supposed to put you in the experience of these two women where they're trapped in rooms, they're trapped in cars, they kind of don't have control over the situation. It does make you feel very tense because you can't kind of see around corners. You don't know what's happening around them. So let's play that clip of Janick Sabravo talking. At least the first third of the movie or a portion of the movie, you really feel like Zola is in charge of her own story. And at a certain point, X takes it out of her hands. And so she has this like room to go have this moment at the pool. And then he literally enters and blocks

her sunlight and reminds her of who is in control of her voice. What I'd hoped here is that the scene would remind us that some of our relationship to sex work, sex slavery, is something that we have the privilege of getting to experience at an arm's length distance. And here it tells us that it's actually right next to us and it's whether or not we choose to see it. Josie, what did you think about the movie's portrayal of sex trafficking? You know, I really appreciate when any kind of portrayal of something like this tells the story without taking agency completely away from the people going through it. And that's what's really like, interesting here. It's like everybody is kind of at least until the point where let's say to the point where they're in the room and she's like, you're not charging enough, right? Up until that point, everybody is kind of making their own decisions.

You get the impression that they don't necessarily have to be there. That gets complicated later on. But I would say even Riley's character, you get this sense that they are choosing this and that it's grimy and not fun and terrible and a kind of a way to get by. And it is, I think, also a good example of, like, how most of the time this stuff happens and it's just a story you tell one day. It doesn't always end in, you know, a life-altering thing, right? Right.

To do sex work or, you know, it doesn't always totally, you know, you don't always end up in prison. You're not always arrested. You're not always like there. People make decisions that, you know, affect them emotionally for the rest of their lives, maybe, or like have some impact on their psyche, but don't necessarily divert their life off the path in a way that I think every kind of portrayal of sex work is always sort of like a huge warning sign. And I think we all get away from this being like, we don't want, this is not the life we want to live, but not in a way that feels like someone's wagging their finger at you. It's a great point. We don't have, and I'm so glad we don't have it,

we don't have the scene at the end where Zola turns to the camera and is like, and because of this, I've learned to join the church and go straight. And we don't have the scene of like, although maybe we should have seen what happened to Z and Stephanie after the fact, like what happened to them.

But yes, it is just, it's an experience they all have. And then the experience ends. You know, let's talk about the scene that you mentioned, Josie, the scene where they're in the hotel room. One thing I got from that scene is that Stephanie super undervalues herself when men are telling her how much she's worth.

And when it's a woman, they're able to like feel, it feels more like the safest feeling scene in the movie. Weird, weirdly, even though there's this parade of like men coming in to have sex. Zola's asserting agency over this situation. Exactly. But it's women are in charge of their own. It is women in charge of their own sexuality. Zola makes the ad for her. Stephanie willingly participates like she's totally down with like... So let's play that scene because I think it has one of the funniest lines in the whole movie in it too.

Pardon? That guy just gave you 150 bucks. Yeah. 20 minutes on the pole is damn near 150. On a good night. Pussy is worth thousands, bitch. I don't set the price. Uh-uh.

500. I pop. That. A pop. That's too much. It's not. I'd love the, like, I need to just decide that whenever they have the glockenspiel in the score as the ping notifications are going off, it's such a great way to blur the line between what's happening on the phones in real life and what's happening in the score. I just thought it was brilliant. Well, pussy is worth thousands. It's so funny. Pussy is worth thousands. It's so funny.

Pussy is worth thousands. And it's so funny how like, when he's like, you think you can do my job better than me? It's like, yeah. She just did. This is your only job. And you're not even profit maximizing.

What's wrong here? It's just very amazing, that moment. It's the scene that you're referencing, Josie, that to me is like the pivotal scene of the movie where it's the morning after when they're in hotel

where it's like the next morning Coleman Domingo's characters come in and it's where we flip from kind of playing the story for laughs to it becoming

much more serious and it's just, it's so much of it is the Riley Q and Coleman Domingo performances where Stephanie gives X, Z, whatever, the money and tells him that's all from me and you can see the way that she is so quiet and she's searching his face for approval you kind of for the first time

realize where she is that she is like that approval is so inaccessible and important to her but there's also fear on her face and there's this longing. You realize the kind of emotional control that he has over her, which is, of course, part of sex trafficking. And then you also see Taylor Page playing the audience surrogate where she's really scornful of this because she understands what's happening because she's been in this world. But she's also really nervous because she knows like is the coleman domingo character going to be pleased with all the money is he going to find some excuse to get angry where they're going to be in physical danger i just thought it was a brilliant scene and i thought putting it at the exact exact like to the second midpoint about the filmmaking just because I was so impressed by it. noticed this time around the lighting and the images at the start of the movie are like really

gauzy and grainy and have this ethereal lighting it's this feeling of unreality like everything feels like really cotton candy and as we progress through the movie the lighting gets much colder and uh sharper and you start to feel this like transition from the like gauzy online world to the hard reality and there's this thing that she does where she's constantly putting you back in the experience of being on the phone. Like there's the scene where they're at the would-be gangbang where Zola's trying to call Coleman Domingo's character and the volume notification is on the screen.

Every time they show the date or the time, it's the iPhone lock screen, which I thought was really clever. And that scene with the Hannah Montana scene, which is just like, it's an amazing scene it's so fun but shot on an iphone oh and you really feel like oh like i'm inside the phone and i think it's like it's so smart how she's constantly reminding you that like we're gonna pull you back into the phone you mentioned uh spring breakers and i actually think that the whatever the britney Spears song that they dance to while holding guns.

Yes, yes, yes, yes. I think that the Hannah Montana scene is better than that musical scene. I know. Oh, absolutely. It's just like. It's not as iconic because that scene is so like. You've got the piano. Right.

It's so silly and so over the top. But yeah, they're both. I mean, if you have a road trip to Florida, you've got to have a singing along to a pop song. Every Time and Hannah Montana. And I'm sure there's going to be another one. Yeah. Oh, something else on the portrayal of sex trafficking I thought was really smart is the scene just before the kidnapping scene in the hotel. They drive by those two cops who are beating and tasing someone who's crying out for help. And that was so smart because that way the audience is not getting to that scene

and saying, like, why don't they just call the cops? Like, why don't they just call the police? It's like, well, you know why, because you've just seen the scene so you understand that they know that they're not safe. There's a really interesting element of this movie, too, which is, like, there's not a single male hero or even, likeable personality yeah like not everybody's bad in the same way but you could see how this movie could easily become kind of um a one-dimensional look at these sex workers and instead even given all of the many issues that both these women have. Right? Like, they, you, you're,

the world of men that are around is just so, like, at best below average. Right. Well, they're, like, menacing or pathetic. Right. Like, there's no,

there's no in between. Yeah. Like, even Zola's boyfriend, who she said she had to, what, she had to fuck him quiet or something like that. That's sort of like played as a little bit remember this scene? It's like one of the only moments where you feel like safe and people are looking out for each other. That monologue, that prayer was completely improvised. Do you guys know this? That's so funny.

It's a great story. It's so the woman who is giving that prayer is a trans activist named T.S. Madison, who had been really big on Vine. And Janiska Bravo had been a fan of hers forever, cast her off of her Vine account in a Vice web series that ended up not happening, kept her in mind. And T.S. Madison, that woman has talked about how The Crying Game, the 1992 movie, helped her connect with her identity, which is beautiful and a reminder that movies matter. Yeah, although the crying game is problematic. No doubt.

No doubt. But it was meaningful for her. Oh, for sure. For sure. Because it was a depiction that didn't exist prior. Right. And we've gotten better at it since. We've gotten better at it.

Although there's an interesting conversation about like the ways that it was ahead of its time in some ways. But anyway, that's a separate crying game podcast. Okay. What is the biggest thing this movie gets wrong? There's a lot of fact checky stuff, but do you guys have anything before we get into the like reality versus Twitter of it all? Look, I've never been a sex worker, but I have never had a night that lasted all night long without there being drugs and or alcohol involved.

It's a great point. So the lack of any consumption of anything, I was kind of like, come on, like somebody is doing something and it would be kind of out in the open. And it's just not, it's not there. And that's, you know, what's fine. It's a choice. But it did for, you know, I was kind of like, what? That's funny. I wonder why that is. I wonder if it's just because like Zola left it out of her Twitter thread for whatever reason, assuming it did happen. How are they staying up this late? Like they it did happen. How are they staying up this night?

Like they're in Florida. How are they staying up this? And they're not in cocaine Florida. They're in meth Florida. Oh, yeah. That's a great point. But, you know, again, I'm not criticizing the film at all. It's noticeable.

It was a choice. No, I got you. And I noticed it. I got you. It is funny too. That's a really great point also because of the disassociating necessary to, like, get through that scene where with all the men in the room, like, you're like, you need drugs. This is not the time to be sober. Yes.

For sure. surprised by the expectation that you know, they're gonna have to basically not just strip but get with these dudes sleep with these dudes that feel rang to me a little naive for this character like I was like, this sort of seems like this is where this was going

you think the real Zola knew somewhere deep down when she was going down to Tampa just like what was in the cards yeah like i'm like you know like from the moment that she's in the car and she's sort of looking at them like what's y'all's deal like she's so skeptical from the beginning and when you are kind of like on that close to you know that that that's not that crazy right Of like a conclusion to draw by this random, like three people driving down to Florida. Nobody really seemed, you can't tell what everybody's relationship is. So the surprise, I think I was like, we know where this is going. Especially the quote unquote roommate who drives the G-Wagon.

Right, exactly. That's a flag of some particular color um so zola has said that she embellished the suicide attempt didn't happen um the whole shooting scene in the the like kidnapping in the hotel she said that she's embellished um and she has said that she was kind of riffing in response to how people were reacting to her tweets in real time, where she saw things that they liked and kind of played it up and played up or played down things based on what she thought was going to kind of play to the audience she was getting. One thing that got left out of the movie, which is otherwise like very true to the Twitter thread, which I thought was an interesting choice because the reported version of it in Rolling stone which zola has said is true the movie is like does not use that as much even though that was out at that time but i guess they just thought that the twitter thread is that is real in the sense that that was the story that went viral um something that did not get included is that uh riley keough's character and colman

domingo's character i guess had sex in front of zola and then showed the photos of that to derrick it's like a power move, which is, I think maybe they thought that would just be like too dark and too fucked up that early in the movie. And it gives you a little bit too much information about the power dynamic. The Derek character did post on Jessica, or sorry, on Stephanie's Facebook page and posted, hey, sucking old man dick for dollars, you the true mvp go jessica which is one of the most passive aggressive facebook comments i have ever read uh and also included uh screenshots of the backstage ads and her mother was in zola's words going off in the comments

um he did also when he was stuck at the motel this derrick guy he was really really cousin greg down to his core he did befriend someone who he met at a gas station and went to his house and got stoned which is a real choice when you're in florida um and the kidnapping scene there's like a few different versions um zola later said that there was no violence but the guy dion who was the other like competing pimp who kidnapped her didn't't hurt her, but did offer $20,000 to Coleman Domingo's character. Derek said that Zola actually did not go along to that,

that he just went with the Coleman Domingo character and that there was no violence, but that Z did have the front desk call the cops on their way out. So who knows what really happened in that room. Does it really matter? It doesn't really matter, no. But it's just interesting.

No, I'm just saying, because that's what's in the movie. It's sort of like, yeah, there's a million different ways that this could have happened. But the most important thing is the story that this person told. Right. Like, the facts aren't as important as her experience or her story. I think that's right. And the movie tells you that. Like, I think that room full of mirrors scene is telling you that what we're actually talking about is their experience.

Okay. And we have to talk about my favorite scene in this movie, which is Stephanie's story. Okay. Which I thought was so, so this is based off of a real Reddit post that she did in fact make that is so long where she tells her version of the story. And the movie is pretty close. We'll play the clip and then I actually want to read some quotes on the Reddit quotes, but it's amazing. And I thought it was so clever to present this as a fake documentary because it's such a great way to convey the experience of reading someone posting on social media their version of events that you know is bullshit from the start. You know, it's not true and it feels like a shitty documentary, and I thought it was a really smart way to convert it, like, to film.

So let's play a clip of Riley Keough absolutely killing it in this scene. I told her that my good friend, Abadwande Aluwale, who a promoter in Tampa, had invited me and my boyfriend to Tampa to be his guest for the weekend. And she was like, let me dance at the club he promoted. And I was like, is that how that works? Because I don't know how that works. That's so funny. Okay, some quotes from her extremely long Reddit post. Let's start by saying that the true beginning of Asia's story is about the only part of her story that is somewhat true. However, the thing that got in the car with myself and the man we will continue to call Z

was not the same Asia I picked up in the bar days before. This girl walks in with some basic leggings and torn shirt and a short nappy wig that, excuse my language, smelled like ass. Then later, talking about going to the club in Tampa, I was given paperwork immediately to sign and hired on the spot in Asia, who hadn't cleaned herself up like I'd hoped,

had to audition. Reason to be a jealous bitch number one that's right she really wrote that within an hour or two i made only a hundred dollars not something i was pleased with and asia made one dollar reason to be a jealous bitch number two i love that she really said she made one dollar i think it's the funniest one dollar okay that's that is where i'm like this story is not true this whole story did not happen. I cannot say those three stories. Also, it's so irrelevant to anything. It's like, who cares? Like, none of this matters.

No, it's just social media fighting over reputation and persona. Right. So all in all, like my Twitter says, I give Asia a round of applause and her creativity. After years of a blog entrapping, this girl finally got some attention, which is just, isn't that the sign off from every firing back at an accuser Twitter thread you've ever read? OK, yes. But also Asia, a.k.a. Zola, was fairly popular on social media before. She had like 10,000 followers on Twitter and she used her Twitter to like advertise herself as a sex worker. And she is really open about that. So to say that she finally got some attention

is like really, she was getting plenty of attention. Right. The fact that the story is, and again, I thought they captured this so well in the movie, the obvious fakeness of the story where like when she shows up at Hooters and there are twigs in her hair and she gets in the car in a trash bag. Yeah.

It's funny to think about the point about her using her Twitter to, like, advertise for sex work. Because now that's actually so much more common. This is pre-OnlyFans. It's, like, kind of pre this, like, new era of, like, almost more accessible sex work, more normalized, you know, sex work. And I think, like, I would say, like, less shameful. Like, we've kind of at least are chipping away at some of the shame element. And it's just, it's almost quaint, right? This idea of, like, back page. And it's, like, both a new era of sex work on the internet and also now kind of a dated

one. Right. Like, are they going to Tampa anymore to dance? I don't know. Or like, what are they, you know, like, this is just a different world, right? It does, in retrospect, feel like the start of something. And even the fact that she is posting this later as a Twitter thread, this was back when it was like, it was really hard to thread. You had to like reply to each individual tweet. And if you deleted one, it would fuck up the whole series. And she talked about how she is like one of the first people to post

a lot of like long threads with long stories. Okay, so what happened after all of this? It's pretty dark. Like a couple of weeks after this, X, Z, I don't know how to refer to him and stephanie got arrested in reno for kidnapping and human trafficking uh there were two women who knew stephanie um in real life or like were messaging her on facebook because they were driving through reno on a road trip their car down. They messaged her for help. Stephanie and X flew out to Reno to meet them,

which is a big warning sign or a big red flag, and basically kidnapped them in this hotel and locked them up and trafficked them. And there was a lot of violence. It was really dark. X is still in jail. One of the women who he trafficked in this said that he hired a hitman to come after

her while she was, I guess, preparing to testify in his trial. Okay. Wait a second. Hitmen, we can all acknowledge are almost always entrapment situations. I think that's the implication. Yeah. Like people have a lot of questions. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, if you're dumb enough to hire a hitman and not know from prison, the person is trying to they're trying to get you to stay in prison for longer they are part of right they're not hitmen they're they are cops like you are but i'm not a jose anybody who's dumb enough to try to hire a hitman no it's so true it's like you if you are dumb enough to try to hire a hitman you are not going to be able to hire him you're not right you just don't it's hitman. You're not going to be able to hire a hitman. You just don't.

It's a total mismatch there in terms of skill level. You have to use like Putin-esque tactics. You have to convince someone to just think they're deciding to work for you. You need a Chechen warlord. Exactly. And then convince them to believe that it was their idea to kill the person that you want dead. That is very advanced. This is very detailed advice.

I mean, this is useful. I'm taking notes. True. I'm not a CIA asset in any way. I have no idea what those letters even stand for. It's also funny because every hitman is so cheap. Relatively, it's always like I said, I'd pay them $10,000. It's like it's going to be more expensive than that.

Yes. Like someone's risking their whole future. You've got to up the cost. Again, you both have so much more information on this than I ever would have. I'm a law-abiding citizen,

so I don't know about any of this. All right, Josie, moment. If you ever need someone killed, you know who to ask. I actually don't know because it's one of you two.

I don't know how to pick. Or maybe I have a, like, bidding situation to see who gets me a better offer. Okay, that's nice. You're unionizing. I love that.

Josie, moment you most related to personally from the movie. Oh, okay. I'm telling you all, there's something about this that's way more extreme than my childhood. I do remember being in the car with people where I'm like, I could die in this car. This is exactly what I was going to say. Why am I here? I could die in this car. This is exactly what I was going to say. Right. Yeah. Like, why am I here? Right.

This is sort of just like, these are not really my people. But now I'm here, so I'm going to ride this out. Like, there is such an element of that that felt so, so real to me. And especially about that age, you know? And when they're driving off at the end and they're speeding across the bridge and I'm just like, I can imagine being in the backseat like, this could be it for me for no reason.

I feel so stupid for this being it. Oh, the scene where Stephanie's throwing the guns into the water, like she's done that before. And like the cuts back to Zola are just, it's so funny her just being like she's dissociating at this point she is just like okay um but yeah it's that feeling she's like why am i what am i doing i had that i had the exact same thing in my notes josie that feeling when

you're on a road trip and you're just far enough down the road that there's no way for you to get back so you realize you were stuck in that fucking car. And that reverse shot of Taylor Page, the look on her face where she's like, who are these people? At best, they're very annoying. And at worst, I'm going to die. That's like that's definitely a road trip with people who you kind of know at age 19. Oh, my God. Well, there's also like a point in the night when the night is not going to get any more fun. And if you continue the night, it is going to get bleaker and bleaker as time goes on. You don't need to order another drink. You don't need to do whatever it is.

You don't need to do any more of whatever it is you're doing. It is time to pack it up and leave the party. And like, this is, this is a movie that answers the question. What if nobody ever left the party? What if the party. And, like, this is a movie that answers the question, what if nobody ever left the party? What if the party just continued down a spiral toward hell? Where does it end?

And it ends at Z's house. Right. Or X's house. Right. And they put a button on this perfectly, where when they're in that, like, downward spiral into hell, like, second to last step, what happens? Zola gets a call from her mom. Because that's what always, when you're in the worst, most serious moment of your life, what happens? Unprompted call from mom. And you have

to be so, play it so cool. Yeah. I also related to the having a friend that is trouble. Like a friend that you just like, and I think this might, I don't know if this is a girl friendship thing, but you meet a girl that you just click with and you're like, yes, bitch, we are friends. We're going to hang out. You don't know that much about her, but you have, like, such a good rapport that you're like, okay, cool. Like, I'll go to this party with you. I'll do this thing with you. And then it gets to a point where you're like, we cannot be friends.

Like, you are straight up buying heroin right now. Like, we cannot be friends. Like, we can't hang out. You are straight up buying heroin right now. Like we cannot be friends. Like we can't hang out. You are dangerous. You are, I'm going to get hurt if we are friends. But you realize that when you were in their car at a third location the night and you can't just, especially in the pre-Uber era. Yeah. What are you going to do?

Where are you going to go? Yes. Exactly. Getting left an apartment on the west side of Chicago after your friend just like leaves and is gone for like three hours and it's five in the morning and there are no cabs there. It's like and then after that, you're like, OK, I'm done. I think this is also it's a very this movie thing, because I feel like when this happens now, you inevitably at some point learn that this person who seems nice in person has a totally unhinged social media personality. Yes. And there's this whole other life that they lead online.

Yeah, that's so interesting. That is like when you start to realize like who they actually are and it comes out of nowhere or like their online life suddenly collides or like you go and meet up with a bunch of people that they know from some like weird subreddit or something. It's Gemini Aries rising energy for sure. I don't know what that means, but it sounds true. That's actually such an interesting point because when I knew people like this,

I was just remembering I was friends with this girl in high school who one day decided she was going to pierce her own tongue when I was like hanging out at her house. Oh my God. And I guess we all were like, that's fine.

Like, I was like, I wouldn't do that, but sure, I guess go ahead. And now I'm like, why did I sit there as she pierced her own tongue? That's insane. But I was just thinking like, I had AIM aim like we didn't have right like my context for people was just so different

than it would be now and it is really interesting to think about like because you know because like the ability to like put this on someone's profile and everybody in your family would know it just didn't exist then that's a great point there There was really no way to embarrass someone in the same way. There was just enough internet that you could meet people like this, but not so much internet that you would have all the information about them right away. You would see just a little bit of their online persona and be like, this person seems cool, seems nice. And then it turns out that they're Stephanie. I also really related to Derek trying to distract himself from his problems by doom scrolling dumb social videos on his phone, which is so sad. It just gets more and more desperate, more and more looking at fines.

Definitely every time we got new poll numbers about Biden before he dropped out, that was me being Derek. Also, when they go to that hotel bar, the steel drum band with that woman dancing. I have been in that hotel bar so many times. It was Lynchian. I would say that was very, it was like David Lynchian meets like, what's that Thomas Pynchon novel that takes place in Florida? You know what I'm talking about? Mason Dixon? Maybe.

But there's like a dark, surreal quality to it. Yes, underbelly. I have not seen her other movie lemon but it's supposed to be much more like charlie kaufman david lynch like very surreal i really want to watch it because she does capture that vibe so well there is another thing of like certain types of white women where you're like fuck why am i like how did i get here? Like, this is too, like, we're not, like, oh, we're not, we're not operating under the same rules. And I had that feeling so many times when she's like, when she's just sort of like, you're like, okay, I have to keep my eye on you because you might be the death of me if I'm not watching you very closely. And at the moment where she's like, from this point on, watch everything this bitch does is just such an incredible line in the movie because you realize what you're getting into.

Right. I think it's a great call. And it's one of many places where the movie does a great job of calling your attention to something without saying it explicitly. Like she doesn't turn to the camera and say like, this is the dynamic, but you definitely pick up on what's happening. So I've heard other friends of mine who are not white have mentioned the crazy white girl that you got to watch out for.

Can you talk a little bit more? I'm serious. I don't think I've ever been the crazy white girl that you got to watch out for. I don't think you have either. I'm super boring now. That's not the energy. But, like, what is this, like, something that is kind of common among, like,

a lot of women who are not white that they're just, like, watch out for this? I wonder if this is also, like, a Georgia thing. Like, a Georgia, you know, like, the area. Yeah. But, like, I just remember that there were, like, some, especially because I grew up in a place where like you're supposed to be worried and scared of the black kids.

It was like, oh, no, there were like a couple of white girls who went to my high school whose like parents were kind of MIA and they kind of got to do whatever they want. And they had money at their disposal and they always made very bad choices. They were perfectly nice girls. But you were like, if I hang out with you, like a main memory I have is being in the car with one of them. And we started going backwards on the highway. Oh, my God. No. It was like the middle of the night. Like we were okay.

But I was like, I remember being like, if this is how I die, my parents are going to be so mad at me. Like they put so much into me just to like go out like this there was sort of this i mean i think what thing a movie does very well is sort of this like carelessness about life that defines that period of your of your you know your existence when you just aren't that careful like you don't really realize the risks of everything but there's something very specific about this woman where you're like, oh, the thing where she

says I have nice tits at the restaurant seems kind of fun and quirky, but now that my life is in her hands, I realize I don't trust her judgment at all and I'm not, I don't want to be here with this person. Right. And there's also, there's a lot that the movie does

very subtly about the intersection of class and race. And like the real life Zola has talked about how Stephanie was like, she was from a more rural area of Michigan and she was poorer than her. And like Zola grew up a little bit more middle class. And like, I feel like that really comes through in the movie as well. And we learned very little about Z's background on the movie. And there's very, it's hard to find much out about him online. But Coleman Domingo, in talking about the choices that he made in the role, said that he really wanted to try to imbue him with a sense of coming from nothing And again, it gives you this feeling that is also part of knowing people who are very online, where it's like this person has multiple identities.

There are multiple personas. You don't know which one is real. You don't know when the other one is going to come out. You don't know how they intersect. It was great. Yeah. I think that the recklessness that people who have never really had to face consequences operate, is a very scary thing to be caught up in. Yeah, the point of the movie is that 19-year-olds are terrifying.

And you should never get in a car with one. Absolutely never do it. But it is a good point about the class thing, too, because it's not like Stephanie is very privileged. You're not like, oh, all this is is entitlement. There's just a very interesting kind of like interwoven thing going on there where you're like,

you stress me out, but not in a way that not in like a, oh, I'm driving my mom's BMW way. It's not falling neatly. And the power dynamic that she plays is so interesting because it keeps, you know, sometimes she's entrapping Zola and she is like a participant with the Coleman Domingo character.

And sometimes you see that she is like maybe the most victimized and the most powerless out of all of them. Yeah. But Zola falls for her crying. Like that's how Zola, that's the entry into Zola until it like kicking up a notch is when Stephanie cries. Zola's like, I don't want to be involved in trapping. That's not why I came here. I'm leaving you in this hotel. And Stephanie cries.

And Zola is like, oh. But do you think that's not genuine? I don't think it's genuine. I think that she's gotten her way from crying before. Okay. It's strategic. She might have been scared, but I think that she didn't necessarily... I think that the film

leaves it a little bit ambiguous. I agree with that. I think that she's definitely... I believe that she's scared, but I also don't believe that she needs Zola because we see what happens when Z feels like

he's been crossed by one of the clients. Right. So, like, you know, she's already been being protected by someone very scary. Right. It's also funny because the point at which she's So like, you know, like she's already been being protected by someone very scary. It's also funny because the point at which she's like, you brought another friend into this. And Zola's like, wait, this isn't the first time. Like you do get the impression she's run this.

She's done. She wants a little friend to do this. Like she wants someone around. And maybe this time it's like a little bit crazier than it usually gets, but it's not her first time lying and saying, we're just going to go dance. She's an escalating sex trafficker. She's escalating to the eventual arrest in Reno with like, it's like, it's like if, if somebody who gets arrested for peeping through your window turns out to

be a serial killer, you're like, well, you knew that's where it was heading, but you know, I'm glad they caught you at this point rather than. Yeah. Anyway.

OK. Biggest real world impact. Do we think this movie did anything for people's like nuanced understanding of the complexities of sex trafficking, the reality of it? I don't like the hard thing is, is this movie, I think, was a real casualty of the pandemic. So I feel like it did not have the impact that it deserved to have. But what do you guys think? I think that once something really authentic has broken through the noise the way that this Twitter thread and later the movie did, it's sort of, that's it. You know, you get one shot to make an impression the way that this made the impression. that it changed things is that people understood that Twitter could be a path to a sort of virality that would make them a lot of money in a way that hadn't really been a thing before.

There had been people who I got hired for like a TV writing job because of Twitter. But like, you know, there weren't people like inking multi-million dollar deals and stuff like that. So I think that this kind of, I don't want to say ruined it because I think that this thread was incredible. But like once something, lightning don't want to say ruined it because I think that this thread was incredible. But like once something, lightning can't strike twice when it comes to that. Once something is really successful, people are going to ruin it. And by imitating it in really cynical ways.

Right. Speaking of imitating it, what do we think if they were going to make this now, what do you think is the version of this that they would make now? Like what's the viral Twitter thread that they would make into a movie? Personally, I'm ready for the Krasenstein's hulu series 10 parts maybe 20 two seasons each the brothers we talked about the cat turd movie yeah it feels like it would have to be something it would have to be dark like it would it would have to be surreal and a little dark because but you know i'm thinking even of like the kind of like pandemic um like q and on the like q and on pandemic people who went from being pretty to all of a sudden being like i don't want my kid to

get the polio vaccine like there are so are so many just, like, corners of Twitter where, but there really isn't as much space to just, like, tell a funny story without, you know, everybody willfully misunderstanding it. Right. Making it into something it's not. Yeah. That's true. Yeah, the Zola Twitter thread would be played very differently now because so many people would be doing, like, counter threads about how mad they were about it or picking nits with it or objecting to parts of it. That's a great point. Fact checking it.

And then Fox News would decide what lane it's in and then just hammer whatever character they decided they wanted to. Right. That they hated. Yeah. Right. I think that it would have something. It would be very dark. And I think, Josie, you're on the right track.

But I think it would be like the Instagram like like crunchy to alt-right pipeline. It would be about somebody's descent into like complete madness. There was this yogi in Santa Monica named Guru Jagat, who went seriously during pandemic, just like lost her fucking mind and ended up, she passed a few years ago. Really? Yeah, not long after the pandemic. There is a podcast series about it. I think it's from the LA Public Radio Station. They have a podcast series on it. I highly recommend anybody listen to it because it's such a good documentation of another spiral.

Somebody starts off kind of on the fringes but still doing their thing, not hurting anybody. And then at the very end, it is not a happy place. You're actually, you're making me glad that they're not making a movie out of that because it's just, it's too real right now. And it would just be too sad.

And this does feel like the rare case of a Twitter thread that is about something that is very serious and does have things that are really dark and sad about it, but is also just a fun ride. Right. Well, how about like an RFK Jr. documentary or like a TV series, a limited series about all of his very weird adventures? Who's going to play the brain worm? Adventures.

I think David Schwimmer. David Schwimmer is the brain worm. David Schwimmer is 100% the brain worm. Absolutely. Okay. Let's finish things off with our traditional round of true or false. I'm going to read out a series of rapid fire quotes or plot points of the movie. And you tell me whether it is true or false in the sense that you agree or disagree with the sentiment expressed.

True or false. This is from David Kushner, the guy who wrote the Rolling Stones story that the movie is partly adapted from. It is, quote, Spring Breakers meets Pulp Fiction as told by Nicki Minaj. Hmm. I don't know. You guys don't like that, huh? Wow. I liked it up until

I liked it up until Nicki Minaj, I think. The Nicki Minaj part rubbed me the wrong way as well. I agree with that. It's like, do you know enough black women to name?

It's big. You look like Whoopi Goldberg. Yeah, exactly. I think Asia's voice or Zola's voice is so singular and unique that that's kind of insulting to her. Yeah. Okay, I agree with that. Okay, we're going to call it.

I would like to call it partly true for the Spring Breakers meets Pulp Fiction, but we can rank it false for the Nicki Minaj. True or false, a line from Stephanie. Follow for follow. I say true. Yeah. You got to follow back. Yep, I agree. Yeah, I agree. Unless you're annoying and then I block. Yeah. You got to follow back. Yep, I agree. Yeah, I agree.

Unless you're annoying and then I block. Okay. Immediately block. Or you do the force unfollow where you block and then unblock them. No, I just block them. Okay. Straight up block them. Okay, good for you.

True or false, I don't know if you guys caught this line. It's the first scene at Hooters. The guy who he's with, Jonathan, says this. I only caught it this time around because I had subtitles on. He said, quote, the hormones in the food help out the hormones in the water. True. Absolutely true. I had some real Joe Rogan shit. Somebody has said that on a Joe Rogan episode at some point. Oh, Elon Musk.

Incredible. Yeah, Elon Musk is saying that now. I really want to know where Jeremy O'Hara has got that line. And that's why we got to abolish the EPA. That's right. That's right, because the hormones,

they help each other out. They're helping each other. Helping each other out. True or false, if a guy follows you to a liquor store in the dead of night and offers to show you

around Tampa to help you navigate your relationship woes, say yes. Go for it. Yeah. Yes. YOLO.

There's such a like Jenga of bad decisions. I know. woes, say yes. Go for it. Yes. Yes. YOLO. There's such a like Jenga of bad decisions. I know. It really. And so many pieces of it's like, you know what? Fuck it.

But at that point, you've already made so many bad decisions. You just keep doing it. Yeah. Yeah. Just keep going. What could go wrong?

True or false, if you get called out on social media, go with the copyrighted Stephanie response, which is to confirm everything but claim that your accuser is actually the one who did everything that you accused of while you watched on appalled and not understanding what was happening. Is that how that works? Because I don't know how that works. What else do you have at that point? Go for it. I want to see more people use the Stephanie defense. It's incredible. I'm going to go ahead and say I'm going to use the Trump official in court defense, which is, I don't recall. Like, I don't even know who this person is. I've never even seen her in my whole life. That's a smarter response. I don't remember that. I don't recall. Okay. Okay. That's a good

answer. She made $1. True or false? Zola, and she said this on this Julia Fox podcast, invented threads. What do we think? I'm going to give her at least partial credit. I don't think she was the first one to do it. But I think that she is one of the people who blasted it into the stratosphere and made it a thing. Because this was right when, like, just before this, you couldn't even have tweets in a series. You'd have, like, each individual tweet you had to read separately. Okay.

That's right. She was to threads what the US dream team in the 90s was to Olympic basketball. It just elevated it to something that was more important and bigger than it had ever been. It made everybody aware of it,

even if she was not literally the first to do it. True or false, Zola is the first movie to use urine color as a point of character development. It's the first I'd seen. I think, yes, true.

That scene is a little, it's rough. It's intense. Yeah. Yeah. She's really dehydrated. I know. My girl is not healthy.

No. All right. This is the last one. True or false, and this is a quote that the real-life Derek, Cousin Greg's character, gave to the Daily Mail right after this experience. Quote, one true or false and this is a quote that the real life derrick cousin greg's character gave

to the daily mail right after this experience quote really the lesson i've learned from all this is that anything on social media can blow up i'm gonna say true true i'm gonna say derrick nailed it true uh derrick's life can blow up on social media for sure he's doing he's doing fine now which i was glad to see it sounds like he and Zola are friends, but boy, he should really not get into any more cars unaccompanied by an adult. Well, Erin Josie, this was great.

I had so much fun chatting Zola with you all. Thank you so much for coming on. Thanks for having us. Thank you for having me. Offline Movie Club is a Crooked Media production. It's written and hosted by me, Max Fisher. It's produced by Emma Illich-Frank. Mixed and edited by Charlotte Landis, with audio support from Kyle Seglin and Vasilis Vitopoulos.

Jordan Katz and Kenny Siegel take care of our music. Thanks to Ari Schwartz, Madeline Herringer, and Adrian Hill for production support.