Offline with Jon Favreau - Megan Rapinoe on Social Media and Mental Health

Episode Date: November 14, 2021

Soccer star Megan Rapinoe talks to Jon about the toll social media takes on professional athletes, what it’s like to become an online Resistance hero and a right-wing villain, and whether she will ever run for office.

I know you've been asked a few times now about a future career in politics. I will just ask it this way. What is appealing to you about that? And what is unappealing to you about that? I'm going to ask you a question first. And I want to be really honest because yeah, I always think this when I get asked this question, like, do you think I should go into politics? I'm Jon Favreau. Welcome to Offline. Hi there. Our guest this week is Megan Rapinoe, one of the best soccer players and athletes in the world. And she's here to talk about what it's like to compete in an environment where most of the spectators are online strangers with lots of opinions about your performance. I thought Megan would be good for this conversation for a few reasons.

She just competed in the Tokyo Summer Olympics, which were pretty weird this year thanks to the Delta variant. Athletes couldn't leave their hotels, didn't know if some last-minute breakthrough case would force them to drop out, and had to mostly compete without any cheering fans. Just weird, fake crowd noise that was pumped through the speakers. So, naturally, a lot of athletes spent more time than usual on their phones. And for some of them, that wasn't very helpful. Suni Lee, an American gymnast, said that after she won the gold medal in the gymnastics all around, she got so distracted by all the social media attention that she didn't do as well in the uneven bars. And she decided to quit Twitter after that. Other Olympic athletes talked about being the target of misogynistic attacks, cyberbullying, even death threats. We've heard similar concerns from athletes like Simone Biles and Naomi Osaka.

And studies have found that more social media use among athletes is linked to less concentration, worse performance, and more anxiety. One response to this, usually from people on social media, is suck it up, deal with it. This is part of the job. But should it be? And how should today's athletes deal with the limelight and the pressure and shitty comments from random strangers on social media? I figured Megan would have some thoughts on this as someone who's had to deal with

one of the worst Twitter trolls of all time. In addition to winning two World Cups and an Olympic gold medal, she's also a political activist who's spoken out on issues like equal pay, LGBTQ rights, and racial justice. This has earned her a lot of admiration, but also a lot of nastiness be targeted on Twitter by the president, and whether she should run for office herself. It was a really fun conversation, and I will definitely help out with Megan's campaign if she's crazy enough to do it. As always, if you have questions, comments, or complaints about the show, feel free to email us at offline at crooked.com.

Here's Megan Rapinoe. Thank you for doing this. I appreciate it. Yeah, of course. Thanks for having me on. Always a pleasure. Congrats on the Olympics, on the medal, on being done. What was it like to compete in these games? Because you're halfway across the world middle of a pandemic dealing with all these restrictions no big crowds how did you process all that i'll just start by saying i'm very grateful and thankful that the olympics

were able to happen that we were stipulated yeah. Thank you to the people of Japan for reluctantly opening your arms to us. But it was just like, I think having been to an Olympics before, it just was like not, it wasn't awesome. But it was amazing to be able to compete. We knew that, you know, viewership wise, it was cool for people back home and, you know, getting the world back together. But there was sort of just no fanfare of any of any kind. I feel like that's the most exciting part, obviously, the competition and the fans and everything. But just the general excitement, it just it felt like we like could have been, you know, in like a conference room in Wichita or something. Well, they didn't let you out of your hotels, really. Like, it's not like you could hang out

in Tokyo, right? No, we couldn't. That was another thing. I was like, we're literally in like a top five city in the entire world. I've been to Tokyo once. This was almost 10 years ago. And it's just, I've been dying to get back. And like every day on the bus, it's kind of like you're sitting there, like looking out the window, like, damn, we can't go out anywhere. I want to go. But yeah, I mean, in an effort, obviously, to keep everyone safe. But yeah, it was difficult.

It was a difficult tournament for sure. How annoying was the crowd thing? It was pretty tough tough to be honest. I think our, having our sport outdoors in a, in a really large stadium, we don't really play music during the games. Like I was able to go to Sue's basketball final and there was just more people in there, but like they play music and there's an announcer and there's just it's smaller and you're indoors so ours felt like it wasn't just that there was a lack of fans it was like this deafening void of anything and so it was just like you score a goal you got scored on you have a shot you fall down you get nothing it was just like monotone the whole time so yeah it was tough what do you think

it is about crowds that fire up athletes so much have you thought about that i think it's just the the like response to the momentum so it's like you know when you're doing well you know when you're you know if you have a shot or you score a goal you understand those things or even you know when you're sort of doing poorly but there's just like the buzz of the momentum and people people just being like it's kind of like everyone's just gassing you up you know we're used to like playing in front of fans and being a good team and it's like who doesn't want to just have a crowd just be like yeah keep doing what you're doing keep doing exactly what you're doing keep doing that just straight up affirmation. Yeah, just, yeah, lots of affirmation.

That was kind of like, yeah. I mean, I ask this because there's a more permanent, noisier crowd that athletes have to contend with today, which is everyone on the internet. This is what this show is about here. The internet. Yeah. So like you came of age as a professional athlete at a time when the internet and social media were becoming central to everyday life. Were there moments in those early years, 2009 or 2012, when you first went to the Olympics in London, when you became aware that all these strangers were suddenly following you and talking about you? I don't think it was that early. It was like such a peripheral thing at that point. Like we didn't have any like sponsorships that were really tied to social media. You weren't, it was just like this weird place where you're like, I guess I could post a picture of this tree. And I don't

know if people like it or don't like it. Like it was just, even Twitter was just like, what's going on? We didn't really know how to use it. So it didn't feel probably not until like 2014, um, was when I, it started to become, things were more tied to it and we were interacting more. We understood it a little bit more. And I think it became more involved in the sports space, but it wasn't, it wasn't like, it was like such a side thing that was like, people sort of did, but weren't really into. One thing that changed from those early years is that you became politically active. I know you grew up in what you've described as a more conservative family, more conservative hometown, and a family that wasn't overtly political,

I think you said. When did you first realize that you cared about politics and that you wanted to speak out about politics? I think it was around 2011 and 12. I think I was starting to come to the decision to come out as a gay athlete. I didn't really like struggle with that personally, but it started to it's like the team started to get more popular. I was sort of solidifying myself on the team and then just became this weird thing. Like, why aren't I talking about it? And then, of course, even before that in California, I think it was Prop 8. And then in 2012, I think there was like Supreme Court cases.

2015 was like the Supreme Court case. So that was kind of like all in the mix. And I think coming out before the Olympics in 2012, it was like, OK, this is this is going to be political. And this is something that I kind of have to like understand how to talk about. And but that I want to talk about, you know, we have all these cases going on and, um, the sort of fight for marriage equality, um, you know, gaining steam. And it was like, how do we sort of get involved? So I think that was kind of my first understanding of it. And then even like being on the team from such a young age, um, you know, learning about like our contracts and collective bargaining,

and then you talk about equal pay and all of that. It was kind of like starting to connect the dots on inequality just in general you got two very different reactions to the first big political statements you made when you came out before um the london olympics in 2012 you said that there were few stories people were very supportive that it was a non-event when you first kneeled during the national anthem in 2016 people completely lost their shit what was it like to be you in those weeks following um the first couple times that you kneeled um it was interesting um i i think admittedly i I was very naive to the level of racism and that sort of just deep seated. I mean, I saw the way that people were reacting to Colin when he first I'm not going to be treated that way. But yeah, I was I don't know if I was shocked by it because it did like make sense. Like, I think that sort of solidified even just the way that I approach social media or the media in general.

I was like, oh, I understand the game now. It's just like people are just going to be cynical about it. They're not actually listening to anything that Colin says. You can't go through Trayvon Martin and Ferguson and all of that, like 13, 14, 15, 16, and then kind of the culmination of Colin kneeling and all that had happened with cell phone videos and high-profile murders and everything. You can't get to the end of that and just be like, no! Clearly people just aren't listening. They're not even wanting to listen. So I feel like it was almost like a crystallizing time for me of like, okay, this is, I understand sort of what's happening. I know, I know that I'm like on the right path. I think the amount of like abuse and hate and, you know, all the wild stuff that happened, I was like, oh, I've hit the right

nerve. Colin's hit the right nerve and sort of keep going down that path. So you make the decision to kneel. And then how do you sort of process the reaction? Do people start telling you that everyone's really upset? Do you start looking at social media? When did you start realizing, oh, shit, this is going to be a much bigger deal than I had anticipated? Like the next day, I think. I think I talked to my agent, Dan, that night maybe after I had done it. It was in Chicago for an NWSL game. So I think it was that night or maybe the next morning.

And then I was – I think we were on a road trip or something and there was a big like sort of blow up with the other team because they played the anthem while we were in the locker rooms to prevent me. And then the owner was like, you hijacked the anthem. And I was like, I'm pretty sure you hijacked. But yeah, I just I felt like it was pretty immediate. And I think we were more into social media at that time. I think I was more on it. And so it was just like this direct feedback. But then it really was like, everyone was like, Oh, my God, what what happened? What did you do? What are you going to do? What do you like? What's the plan? It was sort of immediate.

Yeah, I was gonna ask that because I noticed in your book, you know, you don't talk about the social media reaction after you came out. And then you do talk about the social media reaction after 2016. Do you think that was only because taking a knee was more controversial or do you think the internet had just become more toxic by 2016? Definitely the internet seems to be more toxic all the time. But I mean, I think it was just way more controversial kneeling. I mean, I think people were like at that point, like, OK, fine. The gays can have the rights. Fine. We're we're on board.

Yeah. Begrudgingly, we're on board. But yeah, racism is a totally different beast, as we know. so your biggest internet moment of course came in 2019 uh when a viral clip of you telling a reporter uh that you weren't going to the fucking white house if you won the world cup earned you a tweet from donald trump um so between kneeling and the trump, like you went from being a well-liked, well-known professional athlete to both a right wing villain and a resistance hero online. What was that like for you? was, I like felt much more about the reaction in 2016, because I think it, it was like, okay, I've, you know, I've done this thing and supported Colin in this way. And like, it's really important. It's important. Everything that I say, and I say the right things and I'm

pointing people to the, you know, to other people and, um, you know, sort of really kind of trying to quickly crystallize on the go, how to be an ally and how to talk about things and how's the right thing to do it. So it felt like, okay, I need to get this right. And it felt very serious in that moment. I think by the time the Trump tweets rolled around, I think I was just much more solidified in who I was and how to talk about things. But then it was also just like outrageously ridiculous. Like even in the tweet, I was like, so you like it? No, you don't like me. You're not, you want, you do you want us to win? No. Cause then we're not coming, but you already disinvited us, but you want us to win. So it was just like, I mean, he's a, you know, a buffoon in, in so many ways. And so it was just like this outrageous moment. But I just

felt like, I think I felt so secure in myself at that moment and what we were doing as a team and the things that we were fighting for and, you know, just sort of the world in general at that point that I was like, oh my God, you're trying to come at me. Hold up, sir. Like you are not going to win this battle. How much are you consuming the reaction online at that point? Like, are you looking at Twitter? Are you looking at Instagram? Are you hearing about it from friends? How do you process it? I am not one to get into the comments a lot. Not because there's so much craziness, but I mean, part of that, but I just think there's anything in there that you want. Like, I think, especially for a public person, especially for an athlete, we go out and we perform, we're constantly sort of like on a stage. So it's like, if I want to be told I'm amazing, that's in the comments. If I want

benign, that's there. If I want to be told like I'm some, you know, crazy left wing like person, like it's sort of all there. So it's kind of all the same. And it's just, I think on Instagram, it's like, I don't need to talk to 2 million people. I can just talk to the people in my life. So I feel like I consume more of the reaction, like from my friends, from, you know, obviously Sue and the people that I work with and my teammates. So that's more like, I'm like, I'm on base or I'm off base based on that. But I do know generally

what's going on. I mean, I'm online. I know. I'm not like, oh, I can't look at anything. I'm like, I know what the president said. I know what everyone's saying. Like, I know the wildness that's happening. What was it like for your family and friends? I especially think about your family because, you know, you grew up in this more conservative place in Redding, California, and you have a more conservative family, like, what has it been like for them to sort of watch you become quite famous, but also this like, right wing villain? I think it's been hard in a lot of ways, because I think, I mean, social media for that reason is difficult because you're opening yourself up or you're just opened up to anyone saying anything about you. And it has the same

weight as everyone else. So like if my mom tells me something or if Sue tells me something or, you know, people I work with, whatever, that all of a sudden has the same weight as like, you know, egghead person that has like four followers. And it's like, that doesn't, and I feel like they have a hard time sort of differentiating what's important and what's breaking through and what's not. Cause they'll just be like, oh, this article is out there about, you know, whoever saying you did this. And I'm like, yeah, well, it's like not really real. Cause it's on Breitbart. So it's like, that doesn't actually exist in the world, but how do you sort of balance that with them just seeing it?

So I feel like they're understanding it better now. And I think taking it less personally, but they're also just like fiercely protective of me. And they're like, I will come for everyone. I'm like, you're not allowed on social media. Don't ever comment back. I'll tell you if it's real or not, if it's a problem. And I think sometimes our views differ and the views of

you know people that they work with or their friends or people on you know their facebook pages or whatever so sometimes it's i think puts them out there much more than they would like to be out there which i'm sorry about but it's like i can't really i'm like sorry guys it is it is a hard thing with with social media and media in general uh with with parents i mean i do the same i have faced the same thing all the time because my thankfully my parents are not on twitter or else god knows what they'd see but um they do have a google news alert for me uh and and i have the same google news alert just to check and you know you get these these stories that come through that, like you said, they're on not even Breitbart, on like random sites that no one cares about that no one goes to.

And it will say a horrible thing about you. And I'll naturally get a text from my dad. He'll be like, are you OK? Why did they say that? This is really bad. And it's hard to tell them like, no, no, no, this actually doesn't matter. But it's like one of the problems with the Internet, with social media, is it all hits with the same force and the same velocity. And there's like no sense of proportion.

Exactly. I'm interested in what you think about how our extremely online world is affecting other athletes and their mental health. So this is an issue that's come up a lot recently, especially during the Olympics. Suni Lee deleted Twitter after she said that, you know, too much time on the app caused her to lose focus before the uneven bars. Athletes like Simone Biles, Naomi Osaka, Simone Manuel have all spoken out about the mental health challenges that come not just from competing, but from having to deal with a constant and very public blizzard of personal criticisms and takes and trolls. How do you feel about all that? I think it's really hard. I always say this, I'm so thankful that I was much older when social media really came about. And also that I was much

older by the time, you know, 2019 and even 2016 came because I feel like if I was, you know, 2019 and even 2016 came. Cause I feel like if I was, you know, 22 or 25 or something, it's just, that's really difficult. And I think having not grown up with it, I sort of understand the absurdity of it, or I feel like it does. It doesn't feel like it's part of me. It feels like it's something that I'm choosing to do, which I don't think a lot of athletes feel that way. And a lot of times we have to do, we've got sponsorships and whatever. It's like this thing where it's like, it doesn't say anything about you, whether you can handle social media or not, you know, quote unquote, handle it, but you should know for yourself whether you can or not. And like, it's fine to just take a step away. I mean, going back to where we're talking about all things being weighted equally,

when you are in a competition, especially a highly scrutinized one, and you have game after game. I mean, for us, this was a big thing. We didn't play that well in the Olympics. We certainly didn't play how we wanted to. We weren't having great performances. We got bopped in the first game. So then right from the jump, it's just like a barrage of negative criticism.

But it's like, that doesn't really matter. I'm like, there's only a few people who you should be taking your cues from but that's really hard when you have it all at your fingertips and it's this thing that's so integral in our lives I think that we should talk more about taking breaks from it and having that not be something that's like oh you can't handle it because you're like not a strong person right but it's like well you have 2 million people or 20 million people or whoever, like telling you their fucking armchair assessment of your performance all the time. Like, what if someone just came to like my mom's job and was like, oh, well, the way she,

you know, she's a waitress. It was like, oh, the way she picked up that plate. That was terrible today. It's like, what? Like, and then you start thinking about the way you're picking up plates. It's like, you just need to pick up plates. So it gives people too much power. But I also think as athletes, we do have the power to step away from it and to at least take a break or block people or do it in a certain way that protects us a little bit more. Yeah. I mean, look, there was reaction from all the usual suspects that was very predictable, which is like, you're all professional athletes athletes you're public figures this comes with the territory this is what it takes to compete um i don't know if that's part of what it takes to compete right

like i don't know like do you ever have moments where all this online bullshit criticism is in your head when you're trying to play or can you always shut it up no i wouldn't say i can always shut it out but i think having some like extreme cases of just wild social media stuff happening especially around kneeling and especially in 2019 i think i just try to take it with you know a huge bowl of And it's like, take the good that you can from it and, and sort of leave the rest because it's like egghead on Twitter really doesn't matter. Yeah. I like try to keep my circle tight. And definitely if I'm doing something wrong, I'm getting a lot of phone calls about it. People in my life are not shy. They're like, what are you doing again? What did you do? What did you say? So I feel like I get like enough of the people that are just in my life,

probably trolling me. I don't need to listen to the trolls as well. Do you have, do you have advice for younger athletes starting out who, you know, have spent their entire life on social media and are dealing with all this pressure? I would, I would say to try to not take it too seriously. I would really work on your in real life or if I'm talking to young people, your IRL relationships. I think those, those are a lot, just more honest, I think. And I think it's hard sometimes. It's like when I go in there, it's like, if I play great and I go on my mentions, I'm like, yeah, so I feel pretty good about myself. You know,

they're like, you're amazing. And this is awesome. You know, people are tweeting at you, but I just kind of feel like you can find whatever in there. So having more emphasis on the people who actually are invested in you and whose opinion you actually care about because they know you and they can be hard on you or they can give you a compliment it actually means something but it seems like we only really focus on the negative comments for social media anyway so it'd be one thing if we could like you know see a good thing and see a bad thing and and weigh that but it always seems like the good thing doesn't register with us it's like only the terrible stuff that registers

not just like the good thing there could be a hundred great comments, a thousand great comments. And then it's that like one nasty comment that gets in your head and that's what will stick with you. Are you more of an Instagram person than a Twitter person? Yeah. Yeah, definitely. I'm, I like fashion a lot. So I'll follow fashion sites, and the pictures are nice. Sometimes I find my attention span being so short, I actually can't read a tweet, and I'm just like, this is alarming. Well, this is probably from Instagram, from scrolling so fast. But I'm like, you can't even read a tweet?

Oh my God, this is terrible. But I do like, I feel like Twitter more for news. Like they pasted a statement in this tweet yeah that's way too long what am i supposed to do with that what you went to 280 characters okay i think i like you know for more news stuff twitter for more like fun stuff instagram but yeah but like you said actual tweeting yourself can can get you into trouble pretty fast because there's there's no nuance and there's no context and no one is going to give you the benefit of the doubt on that. Yeah. It's like the amount of times I go in to do a tweet and I'm like, you know what? It's really not worth it. It's just not worth it.

So I interviewed Gia Tolentino for this series who wrote a fantastic book about how much the internet sucks. It's called Trick Mirror. And one of her points is that the internet makes communication about morality really easy, but actual moral living really hard. And so you see a lot of brands and celebrities and other people tweeting and posting expressions of solidarity with movements for racial justice and LGBTQ rights or equal pay. But you don't see as many people participating in acts of solidarity, like strikes and boycotts and grassroots organizing. As someone who has done all of the above, what do you think of that? Does that strike a chord at all? Oh, absolutely. I think it's like social media, particularly with movements, it's like you're

sort of damned if you do, damned if you don't. it's like, you kind of have to, unless you're just an asshole, you kind of have to like, be like, yeah, I'm down with, of course I'm down with Black Lives Matter. You know, it's like, I'm course on this. I think people feel forced because they don't want to be called out. But I'm like, if you don't want to be called out, why don't you just be about it? There's no mechanism to capture whether people are being about it or not. So it's like, you kind of have to do, you know, the post or show solidarity or whatever it is. But then I think people, I think some people are just overwhelmed by what to do and are sort of paralyzed by that. I think some people are lazy and they don't want to do it. I think like it does take work and it is something that takes a lot of effort to be a meaningful part

of a movement. It like takes self-education and spending your time or your resources or whatever it may be. I think some people don't want to do that. But it is that thing where it's like, yeah, it's like, what does a post, what does a solidarity post sort of mean anyways? It's not a bad thing because then you see, you know, these movements sort of, you know, rise up on social media, but it's also given people, I think, an easy out to then where the move, where it dies down, then it's like, oh, we don't care about Black Lives Matter anymore. We don down then it's like oh we don't care about black lives matter anymore we don't care about trans lives or we don't care about the border we don't care about health care we don't care about any we just sort of go back to our normal lives and i think instagram and and just social media in general i think the instagram gives you that like

serotonin hit of like i'm doing good you know and it's like only you really know if you're like doing good or not and that's that's the interesting part well it's like hey uh what are we posting this week what's uh what's the thing that we're supposed to be posting about okay yeah no i'm there i'm down great now i'm gonna go uh just live my life and do whatever i want to do now i'm just gonna scroll on the rails which is just but i do think i do think that's one of the, one of the big problems. Well, you wrote at the end of your book that you're always asking yourself if you're doing enough or if what you're doing is effective. Have you found a way to answer those questions? Not really. Um, cause I think the answer is we could really just all be doing,

you know, a lot more, but also I think people get paralyzed by the fact that if you haven't quit your job and you're not just knocking on doors all day long, then you're not doing anything. And so what's the point? Because I'm not going to do that. So what's the point of doing anything? And then you just end up doing nothing. But I think that giving yourself a little bit of grace while also asking yourself those tough questions like, are you choosing to read educational books that are thrown in with the other books that you like or podcasts that maybe like aren't your favorite podcast, but it's important and it's going to open your mind up or reading different authors. So maybe if it does come up in a conversation, you can actually speak to it.

And like those conversations are important with your family or with your friends or your co workers, like sometimes people think you have to do this big action to be like doing work in the world. And sometimes it is just being educated enough to be like, this is where I got this information. And you can help to sort of change the conversation or guide the conversation in a different way. Have you seen any opinions change in your hometown or your family since you've become politically active? Like, have you had offline conversations that are perhaps more productive than the insanity that we see online? Yeah, definitely. I mean, I think I've forced all of us into these conversations. Whether people liked it or not. Yeah. I'm like, well, we're getting into it. Yeah, I think I really have. And I think, you know, over the course of the last, you know,

five years, I think people are starting to understand the interconnectedness of all of these issues, whether it's Me Too movement, Equal Pay, Black Lives Matter, you know, health care, whatever it may be. I feel like, you know, especially with my family, because I do speak out about a lot of different things. I think it's sort of connecting dots for them a little bit. You know, it's just kind of what it is. And I think I'm just passionate about it in general. So when I go home, those are conversations that we're having. And it doesn't always have to be about that. But like, if I'm in the room, it's like, and you say something wild

at a family dinner, I'm like, well, we're probably gonna have to talk about that. the fact that you grew up in a conservative family did that shape the way that you talk about politics that you think about politics because you've had an experience of you know being around people that you love that you know thought very differently than you you know it's so interesting when i look back i I don't, I feel like I didn't know anything about politics when I was younger. It was, I didn't know, like I didn't have any sort of language to put on. I didn't know like liberal conservative. I was like, I knew Democrats, Republicans, but we never really, my parents weren't super politically active. Um, so we just didn't really like talk about it that much. And it wasn't till I was older and I had the kind

of like language to understand these different things that I actually realized I was like, I think we grew up in a pretty liberal household. Like my mom and my dad both worked. Um, my dad worked construction. So he worked more in like the morning and the day my mom was a waitress. She worked at night. So like, you know, the morning things were my mom's, but when we got home from school, she went to work. My dad like made dinner and bathed us and did homework with us and did the laundry. And they both sort of did these like differing gender roles. And I think just in general, we have more of a matriarchal family. So then like coming back to it later, I was like, are you guys sure that you're conservatives? I'm like, I'm not, especially

my mom. I'm like, are you sure? I'm really like, are you a closet liberal? Yeah. I'm like, I don't really believe this and I don't really get it. And I sort of get it in the context of, you know, where they live and yeah, but I'm just kind of like, I don't know if you guys are that conservative. I don't think you are. No, I say this too, because I think, you know, I grew up, I had, my parents are Democrats, but I had plenty of Republicans in my family. I went to a college where I had plenty of professors who were conservative. And so I sort of came of age in politics with people who are conservative around me. And so I sort of learned to argue and persuade. And I feel sometimes that the longer I spend online with people who very much agree with me and people who very much don't agree with me, that I sometimes forget

that there's like most of the country is not like that at all. And that most of the country is made up of people who you actually can persuade if you make the right argument and have conversations that include nuance and subtlety and empathy for someone else and putting yourself in their shoes. do zoom canvases, whatever we did in 2020. Like, those are the times that I'm like, oh, this is actually both harder than I thought to convince people, but also more doable than I thought. Do you ever had that experience? Yeah, yeah, definitely. I mean, I think it's like the thing about Twitter, too. It's like this world is like, ah, this is what Twitter's saying. And it's like, the majority of the people aren't even on Twitter, they don't know what's happening on Twitter. They're just really kind of like worried about their lives and what's going to affect them, you know, much more on a local level or, you know, different policies, or it's just like, I don't know, my parents were conservative or my parents are liberal. So, you know, you just

like these things get ingrained, but yeah, I think the majority of people are not on the polar side of things. And so you can have a conversation, you can come at, you know, the same issue with maybe a little bit difference in nuance and points or what's important to you or what's not. No, I totally agree with that. I mean, I think that with my family too, they're like, I'm with you on this. I don't know about this. And I'm like, okay, we can sort of balance that out. But yeah, I find it much easier to just have those conversations in person as well. I mean, I'm sure you see this. You get some wild stuff on Twitter, too. I've had in my whole life as a wild person online, one person ever come up to me and say, I don't agree with what you're doing.

They did it in a very polite way. Really? No, I've had like booing from fans. But like nobody's just coming up and saying these crazy things. Like we're all just much more similar than we are different, obviously. What was the conversation with that person like? We were in the hospital. I think I was getting like an MRI or something, some sports thing.

And we were in the elevator together and it was a man and his wife. And I think the wife was like, oh, are you making a, it was right after the World Cup. And he's like, oh, are you making a pinot? Like, you know, big fans. And then the husband, he was like, well, I just have to say, like, I wish you represented America, you know, better. And I was like, oh, I'm sorry that you, you know, feel that way. And then like the doors kind of opened and he kind of like zoomed out. And I was like, oh, I'm sorry that you feel that way. And then the doors kind of opened and you kind of zoomed out. And I was like, okay, that's it.

Sorry I didn't represent us better, whatever that means. I was like, we just won the international tournament. Okay, thank you very much. I know you've been asked a few times now about a future career in politics. I will just ask it this way. What is appealing to you about that and what is unappealing to you about that i'm gonna ask you a question first and i want to be really honest because yeah i always think this when i get asked this question like do you think i should go into

politics yeah i do you do see because i'm always like this is the problem with politics like some, you know, famous person has nothing to do with politics, is totally unqualified. Like, I don't know if my sociology degree from college that was really more sports focused is really like well suited for politics. I'm like, maybe I can, I love the idea of being involved in politics, using my platform. Maybe I bring people to politics that wouldn't normally be in it. And then'm like can i hand them off to you know someone better i mean okay let's think of what we really want in in someone who is an elected leader right like uh we want someone who deeply cares about the issues who's going to do the work, right? Who believes that, like, I don't think that traditional qualifications, right? Like I had a political science degree. I didn't fucking use that. I also had a sociology degree. I took, loved sociology as a major, great major.

Oh, it was awesome. So much fun. I was like, this is fascinating. Yeah, no, that was great. But like, I don't, I don't think we've had a lot of experts and a lot of people with deep experience in politics that didn't get us anywhere. Very good. I think you need someone who is, who is fundamentally good, who cares, who has passion about things. And also the fact that you, you know, for, you didn't ask for it, but you're famous. You have this big platform, right? Like people, when you speak, your words have weight with people. And I think at the point we're at now, when what I worry is that a lot of people will turn away from public service and elected office, because I do think, I mean, we're having this conversation about the internet, I think that online culture selects for people now

who can really withstand a whole bunch of public criticism all the time. People always talk about, oh, if you run for office, there's skeletons in your closet. Forget about all that shit. It's not about any deep dark secrets.

It's like the thing you said on the internet two weeks ago that could come back and bite you, right? So you have to have, I think, this kind of personality that can withstand public criticism. And when the haters come for you, just be like, I don't really fucking care about that. It's just people saying whatever. And if you are in it, not just for the fame or for the office or for money or for whatever else, but you're in it because you genuinely want to make a difference in other people's lives. And you think that you could somehow do that by, you know, being in elected office and passing legislation and making people's lives better,

then I think it's a it's not a bad thing to do. Okay, yeah, I can get down with that. I do agree that the way it's like, we know the standard is ridiculous because the standard to be a politician is perfection. You have to be perfect. So it's just like this ridiculous standard that is kind of like ruining it. It's like, but I'm sensitive to the like, to the just the celebrity. I think we have, I mean, obviously we had a celebrity president and that was a big disaster. But I'm sensitive to the like, yeah, that why would I be qualified over someone else? But I guess you're right. It's really just about like caring for the issues, being willing to fight

for the issues and being willing to articulate your message and galvanize people to ultimately care for themselves. Like I always say, whether you like politics or not, because a lot of people be like, oh, I'm not I'm not really that political. And I'm like, well, it's engaging with you, whether you're engaging with it or not, in a major way in every aspect of your life from the moment you wake up. So it's like that's what I'm passionate about is like making politics cool or making it something that people are just even a little bit more interested in. Because like your life will be better if you're more engaged. And I think we saw that, you know, with the elections last year and people getting involved all over the country. It's like, I think, you know, people can, obviously we're in a pandemic, but I think people can say like, things are better this time this year than they were last year.

And at least we have some, you know, sort of semblance. But it's like like this is when the majority of the people want it i mean the standard the standards that we have had for politicians for a long time you're right they're gone they're gone because of trump um we had a celebrity president who wasn't qualified for anything um that's not to say that like well you know if trump could be president anyone could be president though Who knows? But it is to say that I think what drives a lot of politicians today is fear more than anything else. And so they are afraid of pissing too many people off. They are afraid that they're going to do something that gets them kicked out of office.

They are so afraid of losing this office, this title. And that drives all these decisions. And that makes them come off as like very inauthentic. And they're reading talking points and they're evading answers and they're doing all this bullshit and stuff like that. And I think if we had more people who weren't afraid, who were like, I'm going to say what's on my mind. I'm going to say what I believe. I'm going to say what I'm going to do. And if you don't like it, that's fine. You don't have to vote for me. And guess what?

I'm going to make mistakes. I'm not going to be perfect. I'm going to say something online that pisses you off. I'm going to have a bad tweet. I'm going to not pass a bill once and it's going to suck. But I'm going to fight really hard all the time. And I'm going to work to be better. And that's the best I can do because I'm just human.

If we heard more politicians like that, then I think, I think we would be better off. And I think more people would be willing to go into public service and into elected offices is what we actually need. You know? Yeah. This weird,

like morality police with, you know, online behavior and all of that is just like making people twist themselves into knots that they can't get out of. They can't do anything. Can't do this. They can't say this. They can't. And it's just like making people twist themselves into knots that they can't get out of they can't do anything can't do this they can't say this they can't and it's just like well you might as well just say fuck it and like do what you want because if you twist yourself that tight you're never going to get elected again anyways so it doesn't matter it's like right well and like and that's true for everyone online like you do there there. Look, in some ways, it is good to police or to call out truly offensive speech online. Right.

That's a huge problem. Huge, huge problem. On the other hand, we do also have to have some kind of room to let people make mistakes and learn and grow and apologize and accept those apologies. I don't necessarily think we found the balance between when we should really call someone out and when we should say, okay, what you did was bad, but we're going to let you apologize and then come back into public life. What do you think about that? No, I think you're exactly right. It's just like, we don't allow people to just show up and be like, listen, I don't know everything. I don't know how to fix everything. I'm going to try really hard. I'm going to be really genuine about it.

And if I fuck up, like, I'll be the first to say that. And I think we just, that can't, we're not even in a place where like, you can even like apologize for something. Well, one other problem with Trump, one of the many problems with Trump, is that he has proven that apologies are weakness, right? And that if you just never apologize, it's fine. And when people see other people apologize and then people say, oh, that apology is not enough. The apology makes it worse. What it tells people is, oh, fuck it. I'm not going to apologize then because the assholes who don't apologize they get away with whatever yeah and they're in the internet forgets about them they just keep going on they just keep charging through

but the people who do apologies but now that's weak and then we'll we'll pile on that that is a real the apology thing is a real problem that is it is it's like this ridiculous standard that we're holding everyone to that everyone knows totally doesn't exist and is not real. But for some reason, we're just like getting behind these wild ass people who have no soul. And I'm like, they have no soul. Like, that's like a clear like we can all agree like Mitch McConnell has no soul. No, he's lost his soul decades ago. Yeah. But no, there's i think there's just a huge lack of that in general um i feel like i get asked that like even just from teammates and stuff like

you know how do you feel so comfortable talking about all of these you know different things i'm like listen i try to do as much research as i can i'm not an expert never said i was and i don't i can't ever be i I'm never going to know everything. And like, if I fuck up, I will say it. I'll be, you know, the first one out there saying, or at least try to, or hear the feedback. And I feel like that does allow you to grow. It allows you to be honest with people. It allows you to have a dialogue. And I think, I mean, honestly, that, you know, no one's giving Donald Trump any flowers. But that's something that people did like is that he would just show up and while out. And it was different than this just like very canned response. It's

like, we know what you're going to say and we know what the comeback is and all that. Well, the people who have spent their entire lives planning to run for office and making every single decision in their lives that would lead them to have a better chance of winning. Like that is suspicious to people. That is suspicious, right? Like when you, when you look like you're someone who has it all planned and has been doing it forever. Yeah. That's a, that's a little weird for people. Um, last question I'm asking all of our guests. What do you do to completely unplug and how often do you get to do it? Completely unplug.

I mean, vacation is always nice. That doesn't happen very often at all. I wish it was like. When was your last vacation? Did you get a vacation after the Olympics? No, no. I went home for, uh, for a few days, um, back to California. Um, so I guess it was kind of, it wasn't what I would consider a vacation. I love my family vacations, like beach, um, chilling somewhere. Um, gosh, I don't know what I do to totally unplug. It's hard to put the phones away,

the phones away. Put the phones away. They're like right there. I'm like, damn, you guys. I think we both Sue and I kind of take our nights really chill. It's like once, you know, what is it? 520 now. Yeah. Once like 536 kind of rolls around, we can sort of relax.

I'm a cannabis user as well. So that always helps to just be like see you later put the phone down, pick up the edible, chill out for an hour good night on that note Megan Rapinoe, thank you so much for joining Offline really appreciate it thanks for having me Offline is a Crooked Media production.

It's written and hosted by me, Jon Favreau. Our producer is Andy Gardner-Bernstein. It's mixed and edited by Andrew Chadwick. Kyle Seglin and Charlotte Landis sound engineered the show. Jordan Katz and Kenny Siegel take care of our music. Thanks to Tanya Somanator, Michael Martinez, Ari Schwartz, and Sandy Gerard for production support, and to our digital team, Elijah Cohn, Milo Kim, and Narmel Konian,

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