Oh What A Time... - #120 Scandals (Part 1)

Episode Date: June 22, 2025

This week we are trawling the archives for scandals! (And let’s attempt this episode description in true tabloid fashion). Hear all about Lord Byron’s saucy behaviour! The blackmail of Alexander Hamilton! And (one of the all-time great scandals) you simply won’t believe the Profumo affair!And this week we’re asking: how on earth did anyone ever travel anywhere more than 50 years ago? And we’re also asking for more contributions to our hit new feature ‘COULD YOU BE ARSED THOUGH’? And also…PLEASE SEND US YOUR QUAINT LOCAL ATTRACTIONS! (With a pic of the leaflet if possible).Please email them in here: [e-mail] you fancy a bunch of OWAT content you’ve never heard before, why not treat yourself and become an Oh What A Time: FULL TIMER?Up for grabs is:- two bonus episodes every month!- ad-free listening- episodes a week ahead of everyone else- And much moreSubscriptions are available via AnotherSlice and Wondery +. For all the links head to: ohwhatatime.comYou can also follow us on: X (formerly Twitter) at @ohwhatatimepodAnd Instagram at @ohwhatatimepodAaannnd if you like it, why not drop us a review in your podcast app of choice?Thank you to Dan Evans for the artwork (idrawforfood.co.uk).Chris, Elis and Tom xSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Wanderi Plus subscribers can listen to episodes of Oh What A Time early and ad free. Join Wanderi Plus in the Wanderi app or on Apple podcasts. Hello and welcome to Oh What A Time, the history podcast that asks, how on earth did you do any foreign travel prior to the internet, in particular the language barrier? Because I've just come back from Belgium. I was in Brussels where they largely speak French. Let's face it, everyone in Brussels, certainly in my experience, has got fantastic English, so it's not really an issue. I tried the small amount of French I have. Je parle un peu français. I speak a little French.

Not very much. You dip the voice a little bit when you're saying it as well. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because I'm trying to imply that I'm sophisticated. Je parle un peu français. No. It's like when a singer does want to hit the high notes, it just pulls their mouth away from the microphone.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, do I do it? Like a singer at a gig, I hand the microphone to the crowd. I'm like, you do the talking. I hand the microphone to the waiter and I say, please, you do the ordering for me. Take it away. Un saladi. Yeah, perfect. Absolutely perfect. Took the

words right out of my mouth. Toby – Well, genuinely, tonally you sound French. I will give you that. Richard – Je parle en français. Toby – Absolutely got the tone. Richard – But I have this app, which is helping me learn. It's basically a French translation app with pronunciation. So if I wanted to give anything a go that was beyond my capabilities, I could do it. And I got a taxi and the guy, strangely, didn't speak any English, so it came in super useful then. How were people learning languages

hundreds of years ago? Will Barron Well, the previous choice, I can say, going to France when I was a kid with my dad was to speak English but much louder. Was how you would deal with talking to French people in France. Yes. And then repeating it louder and louder. Where is the away end? I am a Wales fan, so my ticket is for the away end.

I don't wanna fuck arse around, walking around the ground if there's a quicker way. Do you get it? Shall I say that again, but louder? Would you like that? Shall I scream that in your face? No, I know exactly what you mean. It's so true. All these things...

I am meeting my friends at this place and I kind of need you to help me because they've got me a pint and I don't want it to go flat because I find flat beer irritating. God, these people! You've got another option. English with a French accent.

How do I get to the translation? The Steve McLaren approach. Yes. What's going on there? That's remarkable, isn't it? Joey Barton did the same as well. Joey Barton did do the same. It's not only just like speaking in a foreign language that kind of, that it's easier in now in the modern time.

I think like maps, even in our lifetime, growing up, like going on holiday to somewhere and just having the address and rocking up at an airport and trying to get a transfer or a taxi and just going, do you know where this place is? How do people do that? or a taxi and just going, do you know where this place is? How do people do that? You are absolutely at the mercy of staff when it happens. Staff at airports, staff at hotels. And if you were unwilling to ask, and plenty of people are unwilling to ask, then it could be a very long day.

And also, how do you even go on holiday before TripAdvisor? Remember like, teletext holidays, you would have, all you'd know about your hotel would be the words written on teletext. But the way people discuss hotels has changed, I think, because when I was a kid, you would turn up at the hotel and my mum would always go, oh, it's very clean.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. If you had a kettle in the room, it would blow my parents' minds. If you had a kettle in the room it would blow my parents mind. Because you're just hopeful that it's not gonna be a complete shithole. And then you get those programs often on ITV like Holiday Nightmares where some couple from Telford have spent, you know, they've saved all year to have a holiday of a lifetime and then they turn up in Portugal and the villa hasn't been built yet. Yeah.

It's a skip! Yeah, it is a skip! We turned up on this holiday, we've paid 20 grand each and it's a skip. There was no airport for the plane to land at. They hadn't even built the airport yet, so we just had to sort of chance it in a field. Yeah, Adaland didn't see. We had to parachute over beach. And then wade to shore.

It was like bloody D-Day. Absolutely. Well, let's say, well, we're discussing the idea of a time before satnavs, a time before maps, as the early explorers landing in a place where you literally don't know what language you're going to be hit with or where anything is because it hasn't been mapped out yet. They were intrepid in a way that I just cannot relate to. Because what you do get as well, the Welsh-English border is a good example of this. You get people on either side of the border speaking each other's languages. So there's an awful lot of Welsh spoken in, so Herefordshire for

instance, Hereford itself until like the mid 19th century. If you cross the Welsh English border into the English side, there are lots of place names that are Welsh place names. So those are the bits I suppose where you're gonna end up with bilingual people. I think people have always been multilingual on the borders in Europe because it sort of makes sense. But certainly if you're coming from the north of England, I bet you're just intrepid and you fancy going to France in the 19th century. Where were you learning French? Did you even know you had to? I once, it's about five years ago, booked one of those secret hotels where you don't

know what hotel you were going to get. Oh, and it was just a skip. Yeah, and you paid 20 crowns. I thought this is the most brave I've ever been. That little act of clicking on a website and knowing it was going to be a nice hotel, but I didn't know exactly where it would be to me was brave. But that, I'd argue, isn't as brave as the people that conquered New Dlands and had no maps. I don't like surprises. I don't like surprises on my birthday. I don't like surprises at Christmas. I don't like any. I just want to be told immediately. And so Izzy, my wife, has a very prescriptive list of potential birthday presents and she

must not deviate from the list. Because that's the list, okay? When is your birthday? November the 3rd. Okay, I now really want to know what's on your little list of birthday presents. Well there was the coffee shop tour, wasn't there? I mean that was a deviation. I I'm asked to go on that. But because I understand that Izzy likes surprises, I've got to sort of go yeah it's great. I'm guessing new pair of Puma Kings might be on there?

That is a good thing for the list. It's basically books that Darrell, our fantastic historian, Dr Darrell Leeworthy has recommended and then there's just Amazon links. I mean that really is the list. A sort of 90s leaning football zip-up of some description maybe? No, but I want to choose that. It is out of the question that she would choose that. And a book on how to kiss as well I imagine is the third thing. Well she bought that as a surprise. I think I get it. But how would you feel about that? I think if my wife bought me a book on how to kiss,

I don't think we'd ever come back from that. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, and I mean, I'm not thrilled about it, but it's nice to learn new things. I've never actually kissed before. So this actually this actually reminds me of being on holiday when I was about 12 and we stared at a villa. This is obviously before the So, uh, this actually, this actually reminds me of a being on holiday when I was about 12 and we stared at a Villa. This is obviously before the days of Airbnb, where it was just a total pot luck where you ended up,

it was like a guy just rented out his Villa and he had a big bookcase in there. And I, I, that's where I first saw the Karma Sutra. And I was like, what is that 11, 12 years old? That was in my introduction into a whole new world. Was this... Wow. Oh, and also don't leave it when I look back now. What the book case for?

This is in the early 90s. Bed and Breakfast book choices, especially back then, very odd. You'd be like the novelization of Jaws, the Karma Sutra, a couple of Jackie Collins. Although the best reading material in A Bed and Breakfast is, which is something which sadly has sort of phased out a bit, I think, because of the internet, is the rack of leaflets for local

attractions. I still get so excited when I see those. I love them. I think you still get those in B&Bs that are run by the over 60s. It's their internet. You still see it, I think. But yeah, it's absolutely dying out. I will, even if I'm not staying in the area, the hotel I've just stayed in, as I'm going past, I will always grab two or three. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Just to have a look at it in the car and see what could have been.

God, that's a nice cave complex. We'll have to come back. We'll never go back. Exactly. That's my number one leaflet. A cave complex. Ideally a former mine. Themed Pitch and Putt. Maybe dinosaur or pirate themed. Also a petting zoo. There's always a petting zoo wherever you stay within five minutes. Wow, they've got a working Victorian farm on the 18 miles away from here. I'd love to see a regional wax work museum. A few leagues below to sort. Oh my god, there's a wool museum. Because wool was a big industry here a long time ago. There's a wool museum.

We have to go. We have to go. The kids will love it. Kids love wool museums. Our kids love wool museums, do they? I've never heard any kid ever say, please mum, take me to the local wool museum. How about Steam Museum? Yes please! A mine that is no longer operational. That's nice. The gold standard. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Big Pit in Glenhaven.

Superb. Yeah, absolutely. And a theme park which isn't quite... I think it's loose to describe it as a theme park, but it does have a rollercoaster of sorts. And so you've got to give them that. It was technically a theme park, but is it really a theme park but it does have a roller coaster of sorts and… so you've got to give them that. It was technically a theme park but is it really a theme park? A roller coaster and a couple of deaths that are too recent for comfort. One of the selling points is the world's oldest wooden roller coaster.

Absolutely. No thank you. That's a good thing to ask listeners actually. What are the most sort of quaint attractions near where you live? Oh this is a great idea. Can we shout out regional historic attractions? Yeah exactly that's exactly it. If you have a picture of a leaflet you can send it as well. I'd love to see that. We'll whack them on our Instagram. Are there any small attractions you can't quite believe are still running and you can only find out about if you happen to be staying in an Airbnb within five minutes of it. That's the only way you'll know this place exists. And then you turn up and someone says,

this place is completely reliant on its volunteers. And you want to go, no way. What do you mean? You mean central government aren't funding this. Go on. I'm stuck in. It's completely reliant. It's actually completely reliant on Geoff.

And Geoff's saying, hello, yeah, 20 hours a day I'm here. Approaching you with a handful of wool. Have you seen, speaking of regional attractions, I think I might have sent it to you boys a while ago, have you seen the Cockney Museum? No. Oh good. But I am going, as I love Cockney culture. It's in Epsom. There's a Cockney Museum and it's just like it's in someone's house.

You have entered the Jelly Deal Zone. Oh gross. It was like just wading through sort of ankle high jelly eels to feel what they're like? What happens at the Cockney Museum? It's just run by this guy as far as I could figure out. I've seen like a YouTube walkthrough of it and it's basically in his house and it's just like pearly kings and queens suits and what he describes as historically significant artifacts dating back 179 years.

And yeah, it's just in this guy's house. And it's slightly haunting mannequins just dressed up like it's VE Day. You know the one. There's the Baked Bean Museum in Port Talbot in South Wales. Run by Captain Beanie, who's an entirely baked bean orientated man. He actually runs for parliament every election under a sort of bean manifesto. He loves baked beans.

He loves baked bean paste. Memorabilia. Paints himself orange. Sold, absolutely sold. Is in his house. The guy loves baked beans. Absolutely. What else is he going to do? If you love baked beans, of course you're going to set up a baked bean museum. Of course you're going to run for parliament as MP for Potalba as Captain Beanie. I've got terrible news.

To give it its full title, the Baked Bean Museum of Excellence...is now closed. Due to relocate a museum, it is now closed. I would like to thank each and every one of our 1300 visitors. Each and every one of our baked beans. Which he's named. He's named them all. It's got to be. Oh no.

The Baked Bean Museum of Excellence was a private museum located in Port Talbot, Wales. Oh. There you go. Not Captain Beanie. What could have been? So, is there any- Did you mean that? What's that?

What did I say? You said what could have been. Oh no. I was like, God, he's quick. He's got such a rampant joke reflex, he doesn't even know he's flexing it sometimes. I'm absolutely going to lay claim to that retrospectively though. So if any of you have a local attraction near where you live, it doesn't have to be historical, but ideally it has to be quaint and the sort of place that you're amazed gets anyone through

the door. Email us about it and send us a picture of the leaflet if you have it to hand, we'll read out our favourite ones. Now, shall we move on to today's correspondence? Should we do that? Oh yes please. Yes. This is from Harry Orme and the email is titled Canal Mishap. Now, a little while ago we were discussing the fact that my friend fell into a canal at the beginning of a night out when I was about 18. Yes. And we asked you to email us if you'd ever fall into a body of water during a night out.

And we've actually got quite a few emails from people who have fallen into the body of waters. That's our listenership, the sort of people that fall into canals, lakes, rivers, whatever it is. That's our guys. Harry says, Hi chaps, long time listener, first time emailer. Listening to your stories about people falling into the canal reminded me of a story from my youth. This wasn't proceeding a night out,

however, it was during my childhood where me and my younger brother were cycling along the towpath with our parents on our way to our grandparents house in Crowde Perry, a village roughly five miles away. So they're cycling on the towpath, two brothers. My version of the event was that my brother was being particularly annoying. And I caught up with him, so we were cycling side by side.

Any guessing where this might be going? Oh yeah, classic brotherly bants. I bumped into him lightly and certainly not with the intention of deliberately sending him into the canal head first But unfortunately, that's what happened. Oh Okay, somehow the bike stayed out of the water though, which I thought was quite impressive My brother is adamant that I pushed him in deliberately a debate which still continues to this day

I like this little point. This is such good parental advice with my brother in the water My dad warned me to race ahead quickly away from my brother's wrath. It's an amazing choice that. Yeah, yeah. Stopping to apologize, no, just get away. Yeah. Get away from him. He will seek revenge. Remarkably, we haven't reached

my favorite part of the email. This is my favorite part of the email. It's such a funny image. You know, bearing in mind this is, I assume, a 10-year-old child. The story ends with my brother, sodden and grumpy, and having to spend the whole day in my grandparents' clothes. Needless to say, he wasn't happy. So he's fallen in the canal, and now he's having to wear the clothes of an 80-year-old man on a day out with his family. I do feel bad about it, unsurprisingly, he's vowed revenge and says it will come when

I least expect it. We're in our 30s now and it hasn't come yet. So he's worried about this. There we go. Little historical point here. The village he was cycling to, by the way, was the site of the battle during the English Civil War, the Battle of Cropperdeeg Bridge, just so there's a historical angle to the email.

So there you are. He's knocked over his bike into the canal and has to spend the whole day in his grandpa's clothes. That is perfect. That's really funny. Perfect. I'm trying to think which of my grandfather's sort of outfits I'd have looked best in.

Not only would there be old people's clothes, it'd have been hugely baggy. Also, old people then, say he was 10 and he's now in his 30s, say this thing happened 25 years ago, old people dressed very differently to kids 25 years ago. A lot of suits. Very smart. A lot of suits, yeah. My grandfather used to wear a shirt and tie every day. Braces. That was my dad and my granddad every day. Oh my god. That's really amazing.

A lot of material that generation as well. Huge suit jackets. And so much brown. So brown. Brown trousers, brown shoes, a brown shirt and a brown jacket and a green tie. Yeah, exactly. There you go. So, Harry, thank you very much for that. That's really made me laugh.

Do let us know if your brother takes revenge. I'm generally fascinated to see what happens. If any of you lovely listeners have anything you want to send to this show, here's how you do it. All right, you horrible lot. Here's how you can stay in touch with the show. You can email us at hello at earlwatertime.com and you can follow us on Instagram and Twitter at Earlwatertimepod.

Now clear off. So on this week's show we are talking about political scandals. I'm about to tell you about the Profumo affair and later in the show boys, what will you be telling us about? I will be discussing a political sex scandal, probably the first one in the US, and a pamphlet. And at the end of the show I'm going to be talking about an affair, a very brief, passionate affair between an aristocratic lady called Lady Caroline Lamb and a member of the House of Lords. It is barmy what happens. Oh, exciting. But now we're jumping back into the time machine. We're going back to the

height of the Cold War and we'll begin with a word that still resonates in British political history, profumo. It's almost shorthand for one of the great post-war scandals. It's got it all, a cocktail of sex, spies, lies and of course that Cold War paranoia that would eventually topple a senior government figure and damage a prime minister and it began, as many scandals do, with a party. It's also, it's got one of the defining images of British 20th century politics, I think. That's the photo of Christine Keeler, because she was a model where she's sort of sitting

on the chair the wrong way round. Right, yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like David Brent. That's... Or Scott Neighbours, yeah. Or someone who's come into a secondary school to give a talk about drugs and is trying to seem cool.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's where they got it from. Christine Keeler inspired all of those different people. Yeah. Okay, then. So it's July 1961 Swingine 60s are just underway and John Profumo, the Secretary of State for War in Harold Macmillan's Conservative government is attending a gathering at Cliveden, a Grand Buckinghamshire estate owned by Lord Astor. Now the occasion-

I bet that was a shit gathering. It doesn't sound like a laugh, does it? Yeah. I mean, it's just quite stilted cocktails and Prosecco being passed around, everyone in quite very dressed up. But actually there's two- You're a 19 year old model. Just go to parties full of beautiful people who are young and having you know go to all parties and Amden or whatever people do I don't know okay to stately home Why are you hanging out with the Secretary of State for war when you're 19?

Go to cocoa Having you got a local nightclub on the high street? Go there. This is going to be rubbish. Grand Buckinghamshire Estate owned by Lord Astor. The occasion was twofold. Okay, so you've got two parties you can attend at Lord Astor's. You've got the formal reception for Pakistan's President Ayub Khan and down the path at Spring Cottage a rather different kind of party

hosted by Stephen Ward who is an osteopath, socialite and alleged Soviet agent. It sounds like an episode of the Vic of the Dibouli where Dawn French has to go to both parties and not offend the other group so they can't know that she's going to both parties and she's changing outfits and she's going between the two. She was a 19 year old model. Why was she going to a party thrown by a Soviet osteopath? I mean, I need to maybe read more because some things in this just don't make sense to me because Profumo goes to the party that is held by Stephen Ward down at Spring Cottage and Profumo goes to that party and it's there that he meets Christine Keeler and Christine Keeler is a 19 year old model and former Soho showgirl.

She is living with Ward. She didn't know anything about politics but she did recognise Profumo's wife, the film star Valerie Hobson from the silver screen. Profumo, for his part, was instantly taken with Keela and they began a brief affair. That's mad. So when Profumo meets Keela, he's with his wife and Keela recognises his wife as a movie star. Wow. Okay. And like they begin a brief affair.

But what makes more sense to me that she'd recognise the movie star than the Secretary of State. Okay. And, like, they begin a brief affair, but what... That makes more sense to me that she'd recognise the movie star than the Secretary of State. Yeah. Like, she's 19. I don't know if I have any idea when I was 19 who the Secretary of State was. He was 27 years older than her. Yeah. But what Profumo didn't know, or perhaps tried not to, was that Keeler was also seeing Yevgeny Ivanov, a Soviet naval attache and also a spy. Now British intelligence was aware of Ivanov's presence and had tried to use Keeler to coax him into defecting but her entanglement with Profumo made the situation completely volatile.

Now the affair was short-lived ending by the end of 1961 and remember they're only meeting in July so it's like six months or so. But the British intelligence services know that this affair has happened and that it has left a really dangerous footprint. And again we did that episode on Sir Peter Wright and his time at MI5 and getting into that kind of Cold War mindset where it really, you know, if you're working in intelligence, this kind of thing is absolutely terrifying if you work in British intelligence services. Well, the theory and the fear was that she was engaging in pillow talk with the Secretary of State for War about his plans for, you know, about Britain's plans for war. And then she was basically doing exactly the same thing with the Soviet guy and that she could be, yeah, and that she was going to give away all of Britain's secrets. So tell me what you're into. I just love it when people discuss their plans for war. When they're

kissing my neck. Can you do that? That's just what I'm into. I know it sounds a bit weird. Do go into great detail. And also, if you could maybe say the really important stuff more than once, I would definitely remember it. Because, because I love that. It really gets me going. Ah, tell me about your nuclear capabilities. At the heart of government, alarm bells were ringing and ringing loud. Stephen Ward, the guy, the osteopath who threw the party, wasn't just a footnote. He was known himself to at least 40 MPs and ministers, including figures like Selwyn Lloyd and Jeremy Thorpe, even of who had been introduced to Profomo at the very same party where he met Keela.

So they'd met. So the intelligence services again could sense a potential security risk was developing and now that the government was informed. Still, it wasn't political paranoia that brought the story crashing into the headlines. It was actually, this is another strange twist, it was a fight. So in late 1962, late 1962 now, so this is like a year on from the affair, two of Keeler's former lovers, a jazz singer called Lucky Gordon, a jazz singer called Lucky Gordon. Great name. Great jazz name. I can hear that jazz.

I can see that show in my mind's eye. And nightclub promoter Johnny Edgepin. I tell you what, I tell you what Chris, she hasn't got a type has she? It could be, it could be a Soviet naval attache. It could be a jazz singer. It could be the Secretary of State for War. Her exes are like every member of... who is it? Some YMCA? What are they called? The village people? Village people. It's like, guess who? Has he got a beard?

Does he sing in jazz clubs? I'm sorry, pick a lane, Christine. You've got to narrow this down to the sort of person you're into. How is she meeting all these people? Secretary of State, he's a lion trainer, he's an astrologer, this guy here is a mackerel fisherman. Yeah, they are all such different parties you've got to attend to meet all these people. Completely different cast of characters every night. So anyway, her former lovers, jazz singer Lucky Gordon. It might be different spies dressing up in different outfits.

That's the other option. It's always the Russian in a different outfit. Oh man, yeah. So two of her former lovers, a jazz singer called Lucky Gordon, a nightclub promoter called Johnny Edgecombe, become embroiled in a violent dispute that ended with gunshots and then eventually this dispute went to court and the press took notice and so did parliament. So in March 1963 now, with rumours running throughout parliament, government being informed about what had happened and lots of MPs with

the knowledge of this incident, there was a Labour MP called George Wigg who used parliamentary privilege to connect Keeler to Profumo. Profumo responded by denying it. Don't deny it! Come on, man! He denied any in propriety and threatened to sue anyone who said otherwise. But it didn't hold. Let's go to June 1963 now.

There's mounting pressure. Everyone on Fleet Street knows he had the affair. They know about the nature of Christine Keeler's other former lovers, the Soviet naval attache. And with… The guy who invented Lego. Roald Dahl. Sweden's biggest chicken farm. And Jimmy Greaves.

Tony from Holly X. So June 1963 with pressure mounting, evidence overwhelming, Profumo finally admits that he has lied to the House of Commons and he resigns in disgrace from government and basically he has to disappear from public life. His career is in absolute tatters. But meanwhile, behind the scenes, government officials scrambled to assess the fallout. So now he's admitted to it. What does she know? What do the Soviets know? What did he give away? Civil servants and MPs were quietly asked if they had ties to Ward, the guy who had arranged the party in the first place.

Special branch and MI5 combed their files. There were concerns about the integrity of parliament, the vulnerability of senior ministers, were they connected at all, but above all the risk of Soviet espionage. So rumors, speculation and conspiracy theories were everywhere and again like spycatcher, you've got to check out that subscriber episode we did about Sir Peter Wright who was a deputy assistant director of MI5 during the height of the Cold War and all the operations that were being run and the game of cat and mouse with the Soviets. You've got to get yourself in that mindset when something like this happens. Could everything be exposed is what you're worried about. So rumours, speculation,

conspiracy theories were everywhere. At the Czech embassy the version of events included a Harley Street doctor running a call girl ring, a jealous husband, a shooting, a murdered woman, but none of it was really quite true. But it captures this fog of confusion that surrounded the intelligence services as the scandal kind of unfolded. Among the more serious allegations was a special branch memo suggesting Keeler had tried to extract secrets from Profumo, particularly about American file transfers to West Germany. That's not your standard 19 year old billow talk is it?

No I know, very funny to imagine it is. Well the 60s was a different time. Tell me about, what do you know about American file transfers to West Germany? Anything at all? What am I into? Tell me about, erm, what do you know about American file transfers to us Jeremy? Anything at all? What am I into? Just normal 19 year old stuff really. What do you know?

Out of curiosity, what do you know about American file transfers? So, all this information is flooding the zone. Intelligence officers were absolutely exasperated. One intelligence officer summed it up bluntly, what can anyone do if Ward and the Russians are frequently with cabinet ministers? And obviously Ward had friendships there, Profumo, like everything.

What is the point of this Cold War if all the information could be exposed via this leak by Ward? The official line when Lord Denning published his report was that national security hadn't been compromised. Margaret Thatcher speaking in her constituency called it a tragedy that a prime minister's legacy might be undone by and I quote the transgressions of one man. And yet in July 1963, just weeks after Profumo resigned, a deeper shadow fell. Kim Philby, the high-ranking British intelligence officer who had vanished months earlier,

resurfaced in Moscow. He had been a Soviet spy all along and many in the intelligence services felt this was simply too much of a coincidence. I love all this Cold War stuff I can't get enough of it. 20th century post post-war so 45 to 2000 it is yeah or silly post-war 45 to like 89 90 it's such an amazing historical period study. Because just the stakes were so high. And the method, the methods being used to extract information, whether it is a ludicrously ambitious tunneling project underneath an embassy, or whether it is using attractive models to try to get in bed with the secretary of state for war, allegedly, and get information.

Everything is at play. Every lever is being pulled. Fascinating. But also, can you imagine working for MI6, and you're like, okay, a Soho model and cold girls having an affair with the secretary of state for war. Oh, okay, well, you know, these things happen, I suppose. She's also having an affair with a Soviet attach war. Oh okay well you know these things happen I suppose. She's also having an affair with a Soviet attache. Oh God! Yeah yeah and

also the lead singer of Schwadi Wadi. Well that's the end of part one. We'll be back with you tomorrow with the rest of the episode if you'd like it all in one lovely big chunk. Why don't you become an O What A Time full timer and subscribe and then you'll get all of the episodes in one go. You'll get them man free and also you'll have access to all of our bonus episodes. You can do that at anotherslice.com or at owhatatime.com. See you guys shortly. Bye! Follow Oh What A Time on the Wondry app, Amazon Music or wherever you get your podcasts and you can listen early and ad free right now by joining Wondry Plus in the Wondry app or on Apple podcasts.

And before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short survey at Wondry.com slash survey.