Oh What A Time... - #125 The Super Rich (Part 1)

Episode Date: July 13, 2025

Let’s have a look at some of the most interesting self-made millionaires that history has to offer! This week we have Sarah Breedlove and her lucrative beauty revolution, Richard Crawshay��s Welsh ironmongery bonanza and, more recently, let’s discuss Apple’s main man Steve Jobs.Elsewhere, haircuts come and go - from center parting curtains to the mullet - but the medieval monk circular-shaved-bald-spot-at-the-back refuses to come back. Plus, what era of your life would you choose from for your ghost form? If you’ve got anything on this or anything else, you know what to do: [e-mail] you fancy a bunch of OWAT content you’ve never heard before, why not treat yourself and become an Oh What A Time: FULL TIMER?Up for grabs is:- two bonus episodes every month!- ad-free listening- episodes a week ahead of everyone else- And much moreSubscriptions are available via AnotherSlice and Wondery +. For all the links head to: ohwhatatime.comYou can also follow us on: X (formerly Twitter) at @ohwhatatimepodAnd Instagram at @ohwhatatimepodAaannnd if you like it, why not drop us a review in your podcast app of choice?Thank you to Dan Evans for the artwork (idrawforfood.co.uk).Chris, Elis and Tom xSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Wondery Plus subscribers can listen to episodes of Oh What A Time early and ad free. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple podcasts. Pura vida means that happiness guides our journeys, that we live in harmony with nature. And everyone is welcome to experience this energy. That's Pura Vida. Join the vibe and visit Costa Rica dot com. Agent Nate Russo returns in Oracle 3, Murder at the Grandview,

the latest installment of the gripping Audible original series. When a reunion at an abandoned island hotel turns deadly, Russo must untangle accident from murder. But beware, something sinister lurks in the Grandview shadows. Joshua Jackson delivers a bone-chilling performance in the supernatural thriller that will keep you on the edge of your seat. Don't let your fears take hold of you as you dive into this addictive series. Love thrillers with a paranormal twist?

The entire Oracle trilogy is available on Audible. Listen now on Audible. unedible. Hello and welcome to Oh What A Time. This episode is on self-made millionaires and this is a podcast where we discuss important historical aspects such as this one, haircut innovation. We've just been talking about it before we started recording this episode. El's changed his hair a few times. Tom's hair can look terrible almost overnight sometimes. Yeah, it flips literally in a 24 hour period.

It'll look great. And then 24 hours later, it's an absolute horror show. I'm exactly the same. I would say even quicker actually. I think you can measure mine in minutes. And we're living in an age where the mullet's making a big comeback, but you know what's not making a big comeback? The kind of medieval monk haircut, you know, the bald, long round, there's the perfect circle at the back.

You just need an icon to think that that is a good idea. If Beckham or if Harry Styles or Miley Cyrus thought that the monk haircut was in, suddenly we'd all be doing it. Like with the mullet, the greatest exposure I have to the fashions of young men is going to football matches and it staggers me that all of the men under the age of 30 have got mullets. Because when I grew up, it was Billy Ray Cyrus. It was people from certain parts of America whose politics you really didn't agree with. Jason Donovan on Neighbours, early 90s. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I would say one of the more benign malits, Jason Donovan, actually. The other one I can't get over is the fashion that young people have of pulling socks all the way up the calf, like scout leaders used to in sort of 1989. Like they got shin pads on. Yeah, or varicose veins. It's like, okay, fine. Not seen that for a long time outside of the sort of father-in-law stepdad world, but that's okay, you're cool. Not a problem. I would argue, Al, with the mullet. I think a lot of things in fashion, I would see as, okay, that is a matter of taste. I might not like that, but it could be argued that that is a good look. It's not for me. The shell suit is not for me, but I get that maybe there's a fashion angle. I think personally the mullet, there is no argument that holds water or holds weight. That is a decent look. It is a bad haircut. I think it's other, it's aside from fashion,

it's a bad look. It's not a new one. I could show you some of the great thinkers and pamphleteers of the 18th century and they've all got mullets. Oh really? Bad luck then. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Jollomor Ganug, the guy who invented the Modena Stedvod, he had an incredible mullet. He didn't invent the Modena haircut, did he? Yeah, I know what you mean. It's when it's short, round the sides, round over the ears. Apologies to any listeners that have this at the moment. They will be listeners out there. There will be listeners out there.

Yeah, there'll be listeners who are thinking about it. Tom's maybe just put them off. The one haircut that's come back for young men, which I didn't think we'd see again, is the centre parting curtains boy band look of about 1993, which was a haircut that I had, right? So I see young men at the football with this haircut. And the kind of hair I have, my hair really takes to that

haircut, right? In that it's quite suited to it, it's the right sort of thickness. And I think to myself, okay, I did it once 32 years ago, shall I go back? But then a 44 year old man with a fashionable haircut, sort of sidling up to 20 year old guys, hey, wanna chat about the latest tunes and cool stuff? It's not good. Do you know what the worst version of that is? Like an older man hanging onto a cool haircut is the kind of the Liam Gallagher mod style fringe long charge. Oh the well end. The well end.

To give it its official title. I love the mod aesthetic but yeah the really extreme version of that is quite something, isn't it? The cropped fringe, long sideburns. Yeah, the Dave Hill from Slade. How would you find this as a pressure? My friend Juhi, who, when she lived in India, was a big star on Indian TV.

Oh yeah. And then just became really disillusioned. She presented on MTV all this sort of stuff in Indian versions and then just got disillusioned with TV. It was like, this isn't for me. But there was a point where she was so famous and she remembered when she was about 22, 23 I think she was, she changed her haircut and then just all young girls got her haircut. So she went out the next week into where she lived and just loads and loads of people with the same haircut. Where do you find a pressure to that?

Are you going for something mad? Are you going, oh, there's a lot of responsibility with every haircut here because now every child's going to get it. I can talk from the other end of mimicking a popular haircut. Gazza, Euro 96, I bleached my hair blonde. Did you? I was straight on the back of that trend. Did you copy Beckham as a big England fan?

No, I don't think I did. I think there was just a bit of distance there. Because he was amazingly influential when I was a bit younger. Oh, I'll tell you what I did. I had my hair long for a bit. And when Beckham started wearing Alice bands, there was more than one occasion when I was playing football, over-powdering, I would pop an Alice band on to keep the hair out my eyes. My 11-year-old nephew did have the long hair,

Gareth Bale top knot, because Gareth Bale did. I was always a massive Nigel Winterburn fan, so what would I do with you, Gareth Bale? I because Gareth Bale did. I was always a massive Nigel Winterburn fan, so what would you do if you got that? I'd always get the Winterburn. I'd go into the barbers and go, can I get the Winterburn? And they'd try and give me, they'd go, what about the Lee Dixon? Want to try the Lee Dixon? What about the Steve Bould? I'd go, no, give me the Winterburn.

I copied Gary Rhodes for a very long time as well. Long, long spikes. I actually remember once when I was younger, like quite young, I took a picture of Jason Donovan into the hairdresser saying I want this. Me too. And they said your hair's not long enough. Like I think I don't know what it was like curtains or something yet. So you cut a picture out of a magazine and took it in. That's adorable. Yeah. I said I want to look like Jason Donovan. I took the Neighbour's Annual into the hairdresser and said, Yeah.

Please, and I would like his life. I'd also like to go out with Kylie Minogue and act in a massive soap-bomb. That feels like a scene in a sitcom where you point at a picture and it's Kylie and Jason, you then first reach in the chair and you wake up and you've had Kylie's hair down. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Or the opposite page and you look like Lou Carpenter. I was going to say Harold Bishop. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Or like, or the opposite page and you look like Luke Carpenter. I was gonna say Harold Bishop. Yeah.

You wake up, they've grayed your hair. Pop little glasses on. Coming back to your original question though, I know some people and they genuinely love to change their look and they mix it up. And if you look at pictures of them, age 20, they look different at 21 and different at 22, and then radically different at 30. And I suppose if you see your hair and your clothes as a kind of

blank canvas, then to have all those people following your aesthetic decisions must be quite exciting. If, like my dad, you've worn the same clothes for 50 years, you're like, okay, If, like my dad, he'd worn the same clothes for 50 years, you're like, okay, jumpers are still in. Whatever the weather. Yep. It's jumper time. Jumpers and trousers and sensible shoes time. Just a call back to a previous episode where we were talking about, if you had to come

back as a ghost, what era of your life would you want to come back as? So for all eternity, you can only ever have one haircut that you've previously had. What are you going with? My haircut now, but not as it is literally now, as it was about six weeks ago when it was last cut. I think it's quite a sensible haircut. In the infinite time that I have ahead of me as a ghost, I'm not going to go, what was I thinking? Because it's just quite normal. Yeah, a couple of years ago I had my hair a little bit shorter and I think then I am just going to blend in. And if it's the 1600s I can put a wig on it, no problem. Really, any time, certainly post-20th century, it's going to look okay.

I can part it to the side which would look alright, 19th century. I've got a genuine question. Can a ghost put a hat on? No, it can't, can it? It has to be a ghost hat. Because a ghost can't pick up an actual hat and put it on if it doesn't like its hair. You'd have to dye with a hat on and then you could remove that hat if you dyed wearing the hat again. You've got to dye wearing decent gear as well.

Yeah, that's the question. Imagine like dyeing wearing clothes that you wear to go to the tip. Dyeing when you've just wear to go to the tip. Dian when you've just nipped out to the shops, you've got your slippers on and your dressing gown. On a stag do when you're wearing Speedos in the middle of Turin or whatever. Unfortunately I died wearing a mankini on my stag. St Paul going, well rules are rules. I saw a picture of a boy I was at school with on his stag and they went to London for

their stag and he was walking around Trafalgar Square in a mankini and I just thought I cannot think of anything worse. Let me put some bloody jeans on. I go as far as to say if I was on my stag do and people suggested I was going to be in a mankini I would leave my own stag do. And that's not a lie, it's not a joke. I wouldn't do it. I wouldn't walk around London in a mankeen. I appreciate the effort.

I want you to have a good night guys, but I'm not going to be a part of it. Thanks, Lance. I thought I knew you but I don't. Gotta be honest, I am going to look again at the old best man scenario as well. That's, that's, that's it needs changing, I think. I always think the best like stag do stitch ups when it comes to fancy dressed is you just want it to be slightly off so that people don't realise that this is fancy dress, that you are just a bit odd. That's the best.

Yeah. Although you just, you just come up with a fantastic commercial radio texture. We want your best stag do stitch ups here. When you say slightly off, do you mean like a pair of shoes that are half a size too big? They're a little bit clumpy. You trip on the occasional step. I'm thinking, I don't know, like wicker shoes with socks on that are quite high, you know, something like that. Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Absolutely. shoes with socks on that are quite high you know something like that okay yeah yeah absolutely now I tell you who doesn't have to worry about haircuts or

what they look like millionaires and billionaires look at that for a link today's episode is about Chris what is it about it's about the super rich including Steve Jobs who famously wore the same outfit all the time. And yes, always a roll neck. Loved a roll neck. I am talking about a myth, a millionaire who is still talked about in Wales all of the time. Fantastic. And I'm going to tell the remarkable story of America's first female self-made millionaire. It's an incredible story.

A lady called Sarah Breedle. Keep people and pets safer. Always keep your dog on a leash in public. Learn more at toronto.ca slash leash your dog. A message from the city of Toronto. I'm Jon Robbins and joining me on How Do You Cope this week is the former professional footballer Anton Ferdinand. I will never ever allow anyone to control my narrative again. Ever. My narrative was controlled from start to finish. How can a headline still determine the way people think about me now to this day? So that's How Do You Cope with me, John Robbins. Find us wherever you get your podcasts. Love. But before that, shall we do a little bit of correspondence?

Let's do it. Oh yes please. Right, today's email is from Sonja M, who has emailed in to say, I've got the craziest small town roadside attraction for you. Listeners will know that we've recently asked you to send in examples of local attractions near your house that you think are a little bit underwhelming, or things that you've been to. Sonja has definitely hit that brief. The world famous Gopher Hole Museum in Torrington, Alberta, Canada. The museum is loaded with dioramas of taxidermied gophers. They're technically called Richardson ground squirrels. So imagine small gophers playing golf, or maybe a golfer dresses a priest at the altar,

or gopher children in a library. It's absolutely macabre and hilarious. I love the pod Sonia in Saskatoon, Canada, Canadian. Listen to that. So this Sonia is a place where there's just loads of taxidermy gophers set up in real life human situations. I mean, that absolutely hits the brief of sort of crap local attractions. However, it's definitely something I go to. Yeah, I cannot. I would love to see a gopher priest. I'm going to have to Google it. I'm going to have to see if there's a picture online. A gopher priest. I got really into bad taxidermy a few years ago. In fact, I've got a book on bad taxidermy. You talked about it like you'd had a drunk phase.

Really got into bad taxidermy. You come round Chris's house, he's sort of cutting open a squirrel. Have you seen the famous, the fox? You must have seen the fox. The big eyes. It looks like it's been taxid see it and sat on a chair just out of it, like terrified. Will Barron Do you know what it reminds me of a little

bit? Remember there was that painting and a Spanish woman, she damaged it a little bit. And it was a painting by a great artist. I can't remember the name of the artist, and she effectively tried to fix it herself. Yes. It's one of the funniest images. It's incredible. It's a little painting of Jesus, isn't it? She retouches it and retouches it until it looks like something my three-year-old has done.

Can you imagine the stress? It must have been overwhelming, the stress. You're like, just a little bit? Okay, I'll change the nose and oh God, oh God, I'm ruining Jesus' face! The worst taxidermy I've ever seen was at the Bath and West show, and I think I've talked to you about this when I was about nine, and I went to a tent which was called the Museum of Rabies. Have I told you about this? What? And they set up a large tent

to take you through the history of rabies. This was smack bang. Do you remember in the 90s, there was a real panic about rabies? Yeah. People were just freaking out about it. So you walk around this museum and what it would be would be like a stoat or whatever it happens to be

or whatever animal it would be with its mouth foaming. The foam was always cotton wool or like a dog biting or whatever it happens to be, or whatever animal it would be, with its mouth foaming. The foam was always cotton wool, or like a dog biting onto a fake arm with cotton wool coming out. And that's all it was, just consistently horrific taxidermies, none of which were quite right. But still, sticks in the memory.

I loved it, in a way. With that though, two things. Someone has come up with the idea, and they've actioned it. Yes. And if you've actioned the Museum of Taxidermy, other people must be involved and like, yeah, good idea. We should open that. I like it. The Museum of Taxidermy, of course. Why has no one else come up with this idea? That's good stuff. But I think there is either a horrific aspect to these things or a sort of willful crappiness that means

that people want to visit them. So for example, the Museum of Rabies was rammed. So busy because of course you're going to go in if you're walking past and it says the Museum of Rabies, you're going to go in because you're like what the hell is that? The same way, if you know there's a museum near you where it's just gophers made to look like they're playing golf, you can't tell you're not going to, if you live near that, you're obviously going to go. Of course you are. You're so right. You don't walk past a golfer priest. If I was walking down South Kensington and there was like the Museum of Natural History. I might go, you know, I know what that's going to be. If I walk past the Museum of Rabies, I have no idea what's going on.

Exactly. Yeah, yeah. And it was free. Also, you're so right about rabies being massive in the 90s. We talk about unfounded fears. For me, growing up, it was getting rabies. Yes. And quicksand conscriptions. growing up, it was getting rabies. Yes. And quicksand conscriptions.

And the other one was mad cow disease. Rabies was such a fear for me as a child. The thing with rabies, I think the reason we're all remembering it, is when they opened the Channel Tunnel in about 1994, you know, the Eurostar goes through, there was a... because there was rabies on continental Europe, but we didn't have rabies in the UK. There was a fear that a load of dogs would walk through the tunnel and start biting people in like folks then.

You hear the echoing barks. Yeah, of a mad rabid dog. But it was a real fear. It generally was. But the idea of a salivating dog that also, by all descriptions in the press, had lost its marbles. They've all got bonkers as well, these dogs. It's quite a scary thing, especially when you're eight or nine or whatever.

So it was a real fear for me. Absolutely was. I mean, still, let's face it, I don't want rabies now. I'm not laughing in the face of rabies. If I get bitten by a rabid dog, I'm in trouble. I'd still be there for you, Al. Oh, thank you. Until you in turn lost your marbles, at which point you're off the podcast.

One podcast left, I think, if I got bitten by a... Absolutely. So Sonia, thank you for telling us that. If you happen, Sonia, to be going into this Gopher Museum, I'd love to see the images. Do send them into the show and we'll pop them on our Instagram. I think we could just Google them, but it's more satisfying if a listener happens to be going in and could send us those images. Will Barron And it gives you another excuse to go. Sonja So exactly. Exactly. We want to see this Gopher Priest. Do send it in. Thank you, Sonja. Thank you for listening from Canada. Thank you to everyone who listens overseas by the way. We love the fact we have lots of overseas listeners. If you want to get

in contact with the show, there's many ways. The world's so modern, the world's so wonderful, and here's how. All right, you horrible lot. Here's how you can stay in touch with the show. You can email us at hello at lwatertime.com and you can follow us on Instagram and Twitter at EarlWhatatimePod. Now clear off. So at the end of today's episode on the super rich I'm going to be telling you the incredible story of America's first female self-made millionaire. It's remarkable. I'll be talking

about a Yorkshireman who made an up-suit for fortune in South Wales. Let's talk now about Steve Jobs, co-founder of Apple, a company that has more cash reserves than the US Treasury's operating balance. That still blows my mind. That's the one fact I love about Apple. They've got more cash at hand than the United States. Is that? That's incredible. That is incredible.

I know. Apple has around $60-70 billion in cash and liquid investments. The US Treasury often has less than $50 billion. First Apple user I ever met in my life? Who was it? Tom Crane. Really? What's it? Early adopter. Tom at a Mac University and I'd never even seen one. I suddenly feel quite cool.

Quite ahead of the time. Yeah, yeah, yeah. If only I'd simultaneously invested in shares in the company at that point, my life would be much easier. Tom Crane, first person I'd ever met to have broadband as well. Wow! What else? What's first?

You had it in your student house. I went to your house and you were sending an email and I said, you need to turn the phone off. You said, no, I've got the broadband that's just on all the time. Did I? And I was like, nobody needs that. That won't catch on.

That's not gonna catch on. It's unnecessary actually. Why would you need that? That's really exciting. I actually, the first Apple user I ever saw was my next-door neighbour, Miles, whose parents had a Mac. Back when the logo was different, it was like a striped Apple. Way back, it was like a boxy sort of computer at a point where you go in and you're like,

what is this company? Why would you? Well, they were well behind Microsoft. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. It blew my mind. It felt lame that they had this computer rather than the other ones. Well, they were well behind Microsoft. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. It blew my mind. It felt lame that they had this computer rather than the other one. Well, it didn't feel lame.

It felt more like, okay, you're a computer guy. Okay, yes. Right. Okay. You love computers to the detriment of your relationships and your job. You love computers. I get it. Whereas obviously now, you know, it's this massive company.

But when we were kids, Microsoft, you know, Windows, that was the computer that you were taught to use and that was the computer with the computers at school and all that kind of stuff. I'll tell you how I judged computers when I was younger, which was like games like Solitaire. So I grew up with a PC, so I had Solitaire, Minesweeper, that weird skiing game where eventually a snowman would just jump out of the woods and kill you. Oh I loved that game! That was great! You could never win because the snowman would always just jump out and kill you.

And then my friend Gary in primary school had an apple and when I went around his house I was like, Where's all the games? And he only had chess. I was like, what is this computer? Yeah. What is this? Get this in the skip now. This is not gonna catch on mate. I'll tell you an experience that young people will never have to go through now, which is the first computer we had was about 14, a proper desktop computer. You'd switch it on and it would go, all of those noises. And then you'd have to wait about three minutes

before the screen came on. That there in silence, twiddling your thumbs, waiting for your computer to realise it's a computer. And playing games that needed to be loaded on a cassette. Oh yes, glory days. The CD-ROM rest in peace. Wow, absolutely. Well, let's wind the clock right back now to Steve Jobs. Imagine Steve Jobs at 23 is a millionaire. Eventually, he would become a billionaire on a token $1 salary. And he reshaped the way the world communicates, listens, watches, buys and thinks. And he did all this while dressed in his famous black turtleneck and blue jeans. This is the mythos of Steve Jobs, co-founder of Apple, one of the most iconic and complicated figures in the digital revolution. How much do you know of Steve Jobs, co-founder of Apple, one of the most iconic and complicated figures

in the digital revolution. How much do you know about Steve Jobs? Not really that much apart from the fact that he had a wardrobe, as you say, full of the same outfit. That's basically the only thing I know about it. It always felt a strange choice for the black roll neck if you're gonna stick with one thing at all times.

It's not great in the summer, is it? It's not great in the summer, is it? It's August and you're on a holiday. You join Disneyland Steve? You're a bit sweaty. Clearly panicked in all family photos when he's on a holiday. I don't know why he dressed the same. I actually do know that. I do know that. It's quite a few leading minds do the same thing. It's always the same argument. It's the fact that it's basically, it's one thing you don't have to think about. Yes. I've heard Charles Sartre talk about this.

Yeah. So it's like wasted thought. There's no value to everyday painting over, he thought what you should wear. So it's like, if I just know that's going to be the case, I don't have to put any mental energy in that. Instead, I can imagine something zany like a watch that also is a phone. I read a book about Steve Jobs a few years ago. There was one thing that really stuck with me, which was that someone went round his house once and there was like nothing in it because he didn't want to populate his house with stuff unless he really loved it. I think it was the washing machine was the example. He couldn't wash his clothes

at home because he was unhappy with all of the washing machines on offer. So he didn't even have a washing machine at home. He had such high standards for applications that he wouldn't buy something if he didn't think it was good enough. And the end result was that he didn't have anything in his home. Like, my attitude is I'll buy the first Google search and I won't care if it's good or bad. Even though it's clearly sponsored. Some of the things I own are good and some are bad and I just live with it. I will just live with it. I would prefer to make a bad decision quickly than take more than 90 seconds to decide whether I'm going to buy it or not.

What would Izzy do if your washing machine broke down and you just decided that none of the washing machines on the market were good enough? How long is she likely to part of that? With those people though, they just need to have such patient people around them, don't they? Yeah, yeah. Absolutely. Well, let's go back, tell the story of Steve Jobs' early life. So he was born in San Francisco in 1955.

And I do think that's important being born in San Francisco, as I'm sure we're going to hear a lot of these stories. Right place, right time. San Francisco in 1955. His biological parents were Abdul Fattah Jundali, a Syrian Muslim who had studied at the American University of Beirut before arriving in the US, and Joanne Schiebler, a Catholic from Wisconsin. Their interfaith relationship was met with family resistance.

Schiebler traveled to California to give birth and the baby was then put up for adoption. He was taken in by Paul and Clara Jobs, a working class couple without college degrees. This was a big point of tension because Steve Jobs' mother Schiebler had hoped her child would go into an educated family and and Paul and Clara Jobs resolved that tension by promising to fund their son's education and Jobs would later refer to Paul and Clara as simply and unequivocally as his real parents. Now like all modern legends of wealth the Jobs story is stitched with elements of the archetypal American dream. From humble beginnings, a garage in suburban California, a borrowed calculator, a sold

camper van to global domination. And again, right place, right time, 1974, Steve Jobs is hired by Atari as a technician. And through Atari, he meets a real engineering genius, his friend Steve Wozniak, who was then working at Zuhlip-Pakard. Is Steve Wozniak related to Mike Wozniak? They're both clever. I think Mike Wozniak would love to be related to Steve Wozniak. But sadly, I don't think he is.

Get on Ancestry.com, find out. Yeah, Mike doesn't have the vibe of someone who's got, you know, access to infinite wealth. He feels like he's doing well, but I've never thought that guy, you know, never have to think about money. If you told me that Mike Wozniak was related to Steve Wozniak, I would 100% buy into that. I feel there's a similar intellect there. I also like to imagine it would have come up in our conversation. Yes, I've known Mike for 18 years.

Ellis and I were in a sketch group with him. If it turned out that... Mine do! Oh, by the way, I relate to Mike. You know who my dad is. Yeah, the old question of, well, Mike, why aren't you paying for literally everything there if you're heir to the Apple fortune?

Yeah, so Steve Jobs was working at Atari as a technician. He met through that job, Steve Wozniak was working at Hoola Packard. Jobs had vision, absolutely had charisma when you watch him do his presentations, a natural instinct for marketing. Wozniak have the schematics, the soldering irons and together, what a partnership. The Lennon and McCartney of computer engineering. By 1975... Of Dweebs. There's the t-shirt. The Lennon and McCartney of D dweeds. Get the Mert Tan up and running. Get that on the O What A Time Shop.

By 1975, they were building their first computer inspired in part by the futuristic consoles of Star Trek. And the result was Apple One, completed in 1976. Wozniak offered it to his employer, Hulit Pakard, who said, no thanks. So Jobs was the act, and a lesser-known third partner, Ronald Wayne, founded Apple Computer Company on April 4th, 1976. The following year, Apple II hit the market, one of the first truly successful home computers. It wasn't just a circuit board for hobbyists anymore. It came in a case with a keyboard, colored graphics,

and suddenly, personal computing was no longer a fringe pursuit. It came in a case with a keyboard, coloured graphics, and suddenly personal computing was no longer a fringe pursuit, it was a product. And I think that's one thing that gets lost, you lose sight of, which is that at the time it was mind-boggling that you would have a computer at home. Computers were something in this age for NASA to have, that would take up an entire room and fly you to the moon. Yeah, there was like a computer at the DVLA office in Swansea that had everyone's address on it in the UK. And my dad saw it in the sort of mid 70s, but it was like the size of a house.

It just kept a lot of addresses on it. And there were like five guys in white coats. Yeah, yeah, and it was like the pre-Microchip eras was all run on valves. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, you just didn't have that stuff in your house. Yeah. I went to, I went to Bletchley Park and I actually saw an Enigma machine. And again, it's all valves and like, what are you like?

How did they figure this out? This is mumbling, like literally like cogs and levers turning. Like, how does this work? And I know that this is a conversation that the elderly have and have been having for a long time. My phone has got my calendar, all music that's ever been created, 25,000 photos. And the numbers of your six friends. Two witchy parents. And the numbers of your six friends. Two of which he abhorred.

It is insane how shit computers were in the 70s. It's bonkers, yeah. And also how quickly it's changed and we've completely not... We haven't reacted with enough surprise, I don't think. To the fact that I now can carry everything in my pocket. I take umbrage with that. I react with surprise all the time and people accuse me of being like Uncle Bryn from Gavin and Stacey.

The sat-nap still blows my mind. How does it know? Yes, it is mad. How can it get me to Barnstable? How can it tell me that there's bloody bad traffic in Bristol? This is crazy. That's it. You are so right.

What's the weather in North America? What's the traffic on the M25? How old is Stonehenge? All of these things you can find out in 10 seconds. Mad! Before that, you would go to the library. Dad, Holstonhenge, I will tell you on Friday. Is it OK for a man to cry at a library? I will tell you, I'll never tell you that. Yeah, you're quite right, it's remarkable. Encarter, remember Encarter? All of human knowledge is on these 30 CDs. And if you wanted to read about a subject that began with C,

you needed disc one. If you wanted something that began with letter R, that's the third disc. Kids today. Yeah. Honestly. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Makes me sick. Do you remember, I actually, now I'm talking about it.

The first, I remember the first computer I ever saw was a BBC, I think they're called a BBC computer. Did you have one of these in school? Yeah, we had them in primary school. We had them in primary school. And I remember that we had an op, I remember there was like a very, a very proto version of MS Paint. Yes, yes, yes.

And you had a tool where you could paint a brick wall. I remember that vividly. Yes, yes, yes. And there was a there was a game where you could make a thing, do stuff. And then the fun one was to make it explode. But again, really, really basic stuff. A big one for me was dial up internet where you say, you want to see a picture of a Porsche?

And then your computer would say, I can show you that in about 48 minutes. Don't you worry. It would slowly appear. Line by line. It would emerge. Yeah, line by line. If you Google the BBC Micro, it will take you back, Chris, because that is the computer from school. And it was to do with the BBC, according to Wikipedia, it was part of the BBC's Computer Literacy Project.

They were made by Acorn. We had an Acorn computer. Acorn, yes! That's the red keys. What has happened to them? Oh my gosh, a BBC Micro. This is the first time I've seen one since the day I left primary school.

Gee, look at that. All right. Oh, poor old Acorn computers. They had a great 80s, defunct by June 1999. And the Acorn, it feels like it's just adjacent to the Apple, but never mind. Yeah, so gross. There you go. So that being Apple II hit the market, personal computing starts becoming a thing. By the age of 25, Steve Jobs was worth around $250 million. I'm glad that never happened to me because I'm not sure I'd be sat here now. I didn't hit that till I was like 33, 34. That's crazy. Fair play to him. He beat me by eight ears. I would have died a complete tosser if I had had that many at 25. No one at my funeral

would have known I was such a dick. It is mad. 250 million at 25. So then at the age of 25, this is when we start to get the philosophical split inside of Apple. Should they pursue open architecture like the Apple II, customizable, tinkerable, democratic, or make it a closed system, sleek, tightly controlled, like the new Macintosh? Wozniak believed in openness, but Steve Jobs wanted control. This is a theme you will see throughout. I think it's still a big part of the Apple story, control over the ecosystem. The tension boiled over in 1985,

both men left the company they had built. Steve Jobs didn't disappear. He launched Next, a company focused on high-end computing for higher education and business. But more pivotally, he bought a small animation division from Lucasfilm for about 10 million dollars, and he called it Pixar. And then a few years later, in 1995, Pixar's first feature film launched. It was called Toy Story.

Steve Jobs, its executive producer, had high hopes. But in the end, the result exceeded those high hopes. Three hundred and fifty million dollars at the box office. He owned Pixar. Yes Do you know this I didn't know that how successful you are are you if you own Pixar and that's not the first thing that comes up? You're only just hearing about it now. That's not I have no idea. That's the case He was executive producer of Toy Story, Tom. That's amazing. You'd be proud of him if he was your kid. What did he have siblings?

I think he did well. Interestingly, I think he's got a biological brother. He's got a half brother. I'm vibing here, but I... That puts a lot of pressure on you, doesn't it? What's your half brother like? Oh, he continually makes incredible business decisions and has changed the world. Oh, right. Well, interestingly, yes, Steve Jobs does have a biological relative.

He's got a biological sister. And get this, the biological sister, who I don't think he met until they were adults, she became a novelist and an English professor. So what does that say about Jeanette? Like she became, you know became quite successful in her own right and was very clever. And I always thought, what does that say about genetics? They didn't meet each other until in adult life.

And she in her own right was very successful. Bit worried about my own genetics now. But interestingly, next computing wasn't that successful. So again, in the story of Steve Jobs, there is failure as well as great success. But interestingly, next computing wasn't that successful. So again, in the story of Steve Jobs, there is failure as well as great success. I mean, to be honest, if you're the executive producer, if you bought Pixar and you've created Toy Story, that alone makes you a success. Let's get it right.

A couple of years after Toy Story, Apple was faltering. It was uninspired. And remember, Steve Jobs has left at this point. He's struggling against Microsoft. So Apple said, Steve Jobs has left at this point, is struggling against Microsoft. So Apple said, Steve Jobs, will you return? And he did. And this is the moment where the Steve Jobs legend truly crystallises.

He remade himself visually and philosophically. This is when he introduces the black turtleneck, the blue jeans, the grey New Balance trainers, a kind of monk of minimalism. He called himself the ICEO and this is a real smart move. He said, That's really interesting, by the way, very briefly, that it was something he turned to at a later point, almost like becoming a character. Yeah.

Isn't it? To some extent, you'll go, okay, I'm now this. This is how I'm going to present myself. It's not something he's always done. He's hit a point in his career. How old is he now? Probably in his 30s, whatever he thought. Now this is me now. I find that fascinating. That's amazing. Yeah. Oh my god. Probably in his 30s. And he's already got Apple and Pixar and his belt. Christ. If he was in your friendship group, just until you felt a bit more comfortable, you'd have to pick up on the roll neck thing. That would be the thing you'd jive in with, wouldn't you, on the Watson Fritz? Yeah.

On a lads weekend away. There's nothing else you can go with. I mean, I like, you know, I've got a few pairs of New Balance trainers like them, so blue jeans, nothing wrong with that. Yeah, it'd be the bloody roll neck. Yeah, you bloody idiot. Twanging the roll neck. Yeah. it'd be the bloody roll neck. Yeah, you bloody idiot. Twanging the roll neck. Yeah. Until his security pull you off him. But this is what Steve Jobs did when he returned to Apple. He said, don't pay me a salary, pay me one dollar and instead give me stock options.

And that decision made him a billionaire several times over. Wow. From the iMac to the iPod, iTunes to iPhone, Jobs then reshaped not only how we use technology but how we imagine it. Everything is cool, clean, intuitive, essential. And I remember the difference, I grew up with a Microsoft desktop computer, big old chunky box. And then to go from that to these Apple products that just look incredible, it was such a change. And under his leadership, Apple, of course, transformed from an underdog into a cultural powerhouse.

Literally the defining technology company of the 21st century, I would say. It's amazing. You have to have money in the bank though to take a new job and say, only pay me a dollar and give me. Like, if I said that, if I start a new role, say only pay me a dollar and give me like if I said that if I start a new role I could keep that up maybe a couple of months at which point I'd have to go back and go no you do actually now need to pay me some money well you know obviously

that your point stands but that is your oh what a time deal yes I want a dollar a month and shares and something will never float and cannot float on the stock market. But here's an interesting thing about Steve Jobs. So Bill Gates, his rival, really, Bill Gates co-founded the Giving Pledge and Bill Gates poured billions into global health. But Jobs didn't really do that. For all his talk of a changing world, Jobs was a reluctant philanthropist. Jobs remained largely private and notably quiet about charity.

When he returned to Apple in 1997, one of his first moves was to shut down the company's philanthropic programs. But Jobs did donate quietly to aid charities and education initiatives, but there was no large-scale giving, no Gates Foundation equivalent. Apple itself was called out in 2007 as one of America's least philanthropic organisations. But then again, Jobs didn't aim to be a saint, he aimed to sell a vision. And maybe that's how you change the world, not with generosity, but with design, with ideology dressed up as hardware, with the right idea at the right time in the right hands. You could not aim to change the world and not aim to be philanthropic,

but I think if you're worth however many billions as he was, you could probably set up a direct debit once a month or something, can't you? Just come on! If you're worth $250 million, would you miss one? Back to see dogs home or something, send them a million a month or something, it's not the touch of sight does it, do something mate. There you go, Steve Jobs. It's just the amount of good you could do with that money.

Mind boggling. You could buy Swansea couldn't you Al? Put them up to the Champions League. What a double, you'd have Luka Modric who's already on the board and Steve Jobs' money. Oh my god. And Mike Wozniak. And Mike Wozniak, yeah, doing half-time stuff. So that is the end of part one of this episode on The Super Rich.

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