Oh What A Time... - #139 Alexander the Great (Part 10)

Episode Date: September 8, 2025

We wrap up Alexander’s legacy by looking at his cultural impact. On screen, everyone from Richard Burton to William Shatner (yes, really) takes a shot at bringing him to life. And in literature, from medieval romances to Mary Renault, Alexander refuses to stay in the past — his legend constantly rewritten for every age.If you fancy a bunch of OWAT content you’ve never heard before, why not treat yourself and become an Oh What A Time: FULL TIMER?Up for grabs is:- two bonus episodes every month!- ad-free listening- episodes a week ahead of everyone else- And much moreSubscriptions are available via AnotherSlice and Wondery +. For all the links head to: ohwhatatime.comYou can also follow us on: X (formerly Twitter) at @ohwhatatimepodAnd Instagram at @ohwhatatimepodAaannnd if you like it, why not drop us a review in your podcast app of choice?Thank you to Dan Evans for the artwork (idrawforfood.co.uk).Chris, Elis and Tom xSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Wondery Plus subscribers can listen to episodes of, oh, what a time early and ad-free. Join Wondry Plus in the Wondry app or on Apple Podcasts. Hello, this is part 10 of our Alexander the Great mini-series. Let's get on with the show. All right, let's talk about how Alexander the Great has been depicted over the couple of millennia. Despite his legendary status, this is surprising to me. As we've been talking about the Alexander of the Great Story,

it is shocking that he's really only appeared occasionally on film and not that very successfully. If there was a Netflix series launching tomorrow, big budget about the life of Alexander the Great, wouldn't you be all in? This is the no brain? Yes, but I've got to finish the Tour de Franswant first. So, yes, yes, but I do have to finish the tour.

Get back to me in a fort. Yeah, let me finish the tour of France one. There's only been four major films made about him with a budget of any size. Two are made in India, two are made in the United States. And they each aimed. But if you're going to make it properly, the budget would be vast, wouldn't it?

One million extras. You're going to face the same problem that Alexander hit the great himself face. Like, how do you organise these people? There's basically no cheap scenes At any point There is no cheap setting And there's no point

Whether he's not surrounded by Any less of 28,000 people Do you know what The cheapest scene would be his death Him in a tent dine of Typhoid Oh yeah, that's easy Or drunk shaving his head Or so I suppose the early scenes

Of him traipsing around his massive house Although that's going to be expensive To book in its own right It's a catastrophe, isn't it? Yeah How much is it to hire a David Lloyd for the weekend? Yeah

I mean, him having lessons with Aristotle. It's just a toga for a kid and a guy with a beard and a big toga. Yeah. But you're right. It's going to come in way over budget. Yeah. The whole war stuff is the expensive stuff and he's quite, there's a lot of that. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah. So the four films that have been made, they all try to dramatize his life. But they, of course, needed to show large scale battles and also the scale of his own political ambition. So the first attempt was the Indian film. Sycanda in 1941, made during a time of rising nationalism. Of course, World War II happening as well. And this imagined Alexander's invasion of India through a distinctly anti-colonial lens. Decades later, you've got Oliver Stone's Alexander 2004. I haven't seen this. Have you seen it? No, neither have I. No. We should do a film review of it. Oh, great.

Yeah, I'd love that. Bonus episode, Bosch. Because is Oliver Stone, it will be about nine hours probably. And playing the role of Alexander the Great, Colin Farrell from Bally Cassangel. What? I've worked out, by the way, on current TV budgets, the only way they could make that, do a biopic of him now, would be you'd never see any of the battles. It would always be him just after the battle, knackered, talking about what had just happened. Yeah, yeah. Looking at his watch going, bloody hell. That bit where the elephant stomp that guy to pieces And then there was the explosion in the ship Yeah, oh, that was the worst

Every episode's retrospective On the phone to his wife I'll just give you the headlines, love Blow got squished by an elephant And he was like, whoa And I was like, no way Yeah, it's two hours, 55 minutes long All of us stills

Yeah, I can see why Okay, okay Well, we'll do it watch a look So yeah, Colin Farrow was Alexander the Great in Oliver Stone's version, a sweeping epic that tried to balance spectacle with biography. And then in between Ciccandra in 1941 and Oliver Stone's Alexander in 2004, you had the first English language film on the subject, Alexander the Great. Alexander played by Richard Burton, of course.

I feel like I've seen stills of this, but not actually seen it. Oh, that's a good choice. It was shot in Spain and it featured lavish battle sequences, including scenes filmed by the Jamara River, It's self-reform a battlefield in the Spanish Civil War and a serious, bookish performance from Burton who took the role with scholarly zeal. Richard Burton, of course, love the drink,

much like Alexander the Great, perfect casting. Yet the film received lukewarm reviews, critics admired its ambition but found the tone overly didactic and the dialogue too heavy. Burton, however, rated it among his better performances from the period. He looked great as well. Yeah.

I mean, I've seen stills from that. I've seen the odd scene from it, and he looked fantastic, I think. That's how I imagine Alexander the great to look, like Richard Burton. Yeah. That feels like a real Sunday afternoon sort of film. That's the perfect Sunday afternoon film. It's like Spartacus, all those sort of things, isn't it? It was like three hours lost to that era of cinema.

Do you know the perfect way to watch that film? You've just finished your roast, you sit on the sofa, and the film is halfway through. Yeah. Do you know, catch it? You want to catch up? I'll work it up. Burton's connection to Alexander stretched back to 1949 when he was nearly cast as Hefastien in Adventure Story, a stage play by Terrence Rattigan. In that version, Paul Schofield played Alexander as a Shakespearean tragic hero, powerful but ultimately undone by his own ambition.

Burton was rejected for being too short to play opposite Schofield's towering frame. What a mistake. Adventure Story was later adapted for television in 1950 and again in 1961, with a young Sean Connery playing Alexander in the latter. version. It offered a more introspective Alexander, focus less on military conquest and more on power, betrayal and personal decline. I know that's a big part of the Alexander's story, but don't you want the bombastic, mad Alexander, you know, angry, conquering, as opposed to a kind of introspective? Well, yeah. Connery's performance, earring clad, thickly accented. I need to see this. Again, I haven't seen this. There's thick Scottish accent.

Earing and introspective. Like a sort of teenager who's sort of going through a stage. Do you play acoustic guitar at any point? Yeah, like an indie band who are trying to stick out for the way they dress. Yeah, exactly, yeah. This is The Grace by Jeff Buckley before every bar. Connery's performance, it seemed a bit odd to modern viewers, but the drama emphasised the human over the heroic.

And then we get to 2004, Hollywood returned to the subject with Oliver Stones, Alexander. And again, this drew heavily from the work of Oxford historian Robin Lane Fox, and the film attempted to depict Alexander's campaign through a modern cinematic lens, which is what you want. It also features a framing device with Anthony Hopkins as Ptolemy, narrating the story in old age. And the film sparked controversy in the US for its portrayal of Alexander's romantic relationship with Havastien,

who was played by Jared Leto. I can see that. Though the treatment was more subdued than critics feared, despite its scope, the film was uneven and struggled under the weight of its own ambition. casting wise on this are we thinking Who would I go for? Yeah

But Alexander the Great Jack Black Yeah Will Ferrell This is probably mad But I would go for For authenticity An actual military leader

Like Vladimir Putey Or It's a strange casting decision Tom Yeah but just someone Who really knows a battlefield That really has that sort of Bloodlust and love for expansion If dramatisations have fallen

To documentary filmmakers have had slightly more success. One standout is Michael Woods' 1998 BBC series in the footsteps of Alexander the Great. This sounds brilliant and it traced Alexander's journey from Macedon to India and it blended travelogue historical commentary and first-hand encounters across the modern Middle East and Central Asia and the series brought Alexander's world to life with rare authenticity. Sounds so good. That sounds great. That sounds brilliant. I don't remember that. I'm the perfect age to have watched that on telly but I don't

remember it yeah this is the beginning of my Alexander the great face I can just feel it yeah Michael Wood confronted modern dangers

along the way from Taliban-controlled regions in Saddam era Iraq and it gave viewers a visceral sense of the distances and challenges

Alexander's army endured you know what this is what I need after this odyssey we've been on with Alexander I really just need to wrap my head

around the scale of it and the different places he went I'm struggling to really wrap my head around how massive... Yeah, in the different cultures that he was then, you know, that he was faced with. Are you tempted to walk here, maybe? To speak to Sophie and say... Do you mind?

I just want to take four months out to walk exactly where Axel of the Grape. I will be back and I will do childcare. I'll do double bedtimes when I come back. So Sophie, what's wrong? Well, he said he'll do double bedtimes. It's just it's going to take him... I don't think he understands how long it's going to take him. game to walk the length of Alexander

the Great's empire, but he has to do flyback, which is very nice. And possibly the strangest entry into the depiction of Alexander the Great on the big screen or the small screen is the 1968 TV movie,

which starred as Alexander the Great, William Shatner. And playing his general Cleander, Adam West. Yes, 1960s Batman. That's so funny. Fantastic. I'm imagining it's very much like the old

1960s, 70s, Batman, Super Camp, pow, you know, the paddies. Cablam. Thwhack. Obviously, I would never get the part. But if I was going for the part of Alexander

and got it, I think that would make me arrogant for the rest of my life. I think you could pull it off. You've got quite Hellenic hair. Do you think? Yeah. You know, when you see the statues?

You've got hair like Greek statues. And you've been working out. I saw a clip of you the other day, and I thought your arms looked quite big. All right, yeah. I was quite impressed. Okay, I'm basically like Alexander the Great. Tom, he's going to phone Putin and tell him he's lost the role. Absolutely a lucky lad of here.

Yeah. I found our guy. Yeah. All right, there. Well, there must be some casting agents listening to this. Just bear me in mind. Bear me in mind. Okay, just bear me in mind.

Go for lunch. See how you feel. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Meet me. There's all in my skin. I'm not just like to meet me. And as he's stabbing you to death over a glass of wine, you'll think to yourself, he really is perfect for this role. But at Yale, he's like, he is history's greatest ever warrior. Do you know how Jim Kerry played? What was the role in The Man on the Moon? Oh, Andy Kaufman. And you know, he was in that role for the duration of the filming.

Yeah. If you were to do that, Elvarez, Alexander the Great, you're just killing the extras and no one can saying. Yeah, yeah. Shaving your head, get in drunk. He's method. Invading other film sets and stealing their extras. He's killing the extras because he cares. That's what you have to say. A complete wanker on the school run. Taking over at the schools. So, 1968, Shatner is Alexander the great. It was originally shot as a pilot for an American series, which you'll be amazed, never materialized. The film reimagined Alexander's campaign as a kind of western, rugged scenery, simplified conflict and a heavy dose of camp, as you would expect.

Though never critically acclaimed, it remains a fascinating cultural artefact. People describe it as Star Trek meets Sparta. In the end, Alexander to this day, and we're recording this in the summer of 2025, he remains an elusive screen subject, despite the drama, the grandeur of his life. Filmmakers have struggled to capture his complexity, often sacrificing psychological depth of the spectacle. Perhaps that's why the most compelling portrayals of Alexander aren't found in Hollywood epics,

but in thoughtful documentaries and stage dramas that explore the man behind the myth. But Netflix, if you're listening, Amazon, throw some cash at this epic. It's going to be worth it. It's a 20-parter. We've got your lead as well. We've got your lead right here.

I'll do it. I'll do it. Do you know what, for a very competitive fee. Which will mean you'll be able to throw yet more cash at the epic. Because he won't charge as much as other leading. then. You'll save money for the battle scenes by getting out. I'll charge 1%. I think you would have to choose a specific bat law campaign because his life, if you were making one film, one movie, his life is too vast. You'd start off with, you know, titles on the screen, maybe giving a potted summary of his life. And they'd say, but now he's 27 and he's decided to try and conquer

wherever one you've chosen and then at the end you do the sort of summary of what happens him for the rest of his life because otherwise you'd be like rushing his childhood yeah or rushing him fighting darius and the sort of the king of persia you can't rush that I'd start with him dying at the age of 33 from potentially poison drink and then you hear the voiceover saying you're probably wondering how I ended up like this and then just very fast footage Record scratches. Yeah, exactly. You're rushing back.

Genuinely, okay, I jest about it being Vladimir Putin. I have got someone I would go for. It's quite classic down the middle choice, but I think he'd be good. Russell Crow, I think that's where I go. He's really good at this sort of thing. Like, Gladiator One is fantastic. He has that sort of presence.

Do you know what? Check me out for a casting suggestion. I don't think Russell Crow can play Alexander the Great anymore, but he would make a fantastic Aristotle. Yes. a fantastic Philip. Oh, Philip. Oh, L.

Oh, I know. Turned Alexander the Great into a pretty boy, Shalamey. Salome could do it. Salome's versatile. That's your big competition. From Wonka to Alexander the Great. Should we do this?

Should we get the money together? Should we make a massive Hollywood buy off? Listen, the three of us, if you combine our social media profiles, surely we can get the $250 million that you'd need. Salome is Alexander the Great. Yeah. I've got a few jackets I never wear. I could sell them. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I could get a bit of money together.

Yeah, I was on the William Hill Sportsbook of the Year panel two years ago. I've still got the books. I could sell them. I've got an Nintendo Switch. I never play. That's like 70 quid. I get it on eBay. Absolutely. Is he needs to put some clothes on vintage. She's got too many clothes. This is enough for one elephant at least, isn't it? We're already up to 150 pounds. I feel like I'm on a telephone.

And so, it's time for the world's smallest violin. We're at the final part of our Alexander the Great Story. Quite sad. It's ending, actually. I know. I'm going to miss him. We're going to cover him in a bonus episode. We'll definitely, definitely need to watch that olive stone film, don't we? Yeah, yeah, definitely. What a staggering individual.

To close this out, I'm going to talk to you about Alexander the Great's lasting legacy in literature and music. That's how we're going to end things. Now, music can be dealt with quickly, simply, as I'm sure you both know, by pointing to Mozart's Alexander Opera, the Shepherd King. You both knew that, didn't you? Yeah, it's my third favourite opera. Is it? What are your other two? Just very quickly, just quickly given immediately.

They should come straight off the tongue, and they are Nutcracker and Swan. On that lake. I think they're both ballets. Oh! Nobody saw Skull being the one to absolutely roast you for that. Damn. Well done. I'm impressed.

Well, the Shepherd King, as I'm sure Skull knows, is set inside Dunn and portrays Alexander or Alessandro, is in the play, having overthrown a tyrant, setting off in search of the true king of the city. And in the 19th century... Actually, it's the marriage of figaro. and the magic flute. That was it. Yeah, sorry, I said the other things

as a mad sort of joke. I don't know why I made such a mad joke when it's the manager figure and the magic flute and they're both by Mozart. Could you quickly tell me what the story is about the magic flute? Yes. What is it about?

The magic fluke. From what I remember is an opera in two acts to a German libretto by Emmanuel Schiqanaida. Yeah, and it's a poplar. Former Incredible singing, a spoken dialogue. And it premiered on the 30 September 1791, from what I remember. I can only apologise.

I'm sorry. Yeah, he barely know your stuff. Yeah, thanks, thanks. So in the 19th century, once again, you'll know this. Chikovsky planned an Alexander opera. That, however, never really got started. He didn't get around to properly finishing it. And in more recent times, and I'm sure Alexander the Great will be delighted about this.

He'll think, this is what I wanted all along. There was the Alexander the Great rock opera. which toured theatres. No, thanks. I'm sure was his dream as he was, you know, careering around Europe, thinking hopefully one day this will become an opera set to rock. However, literary depictions are far more wide-ranging

and far more interesting, really. In fact, they go as far back as the Roman period when a book called The Alexander Romance was released and went on to become the most successful novel of the ancient world. It's worth saying a romance in this regard means like a retelling of his life, not like a Jilly Cooper novel.

It's not like someone needs a boiler fix, knock on the door. It's Alexander the Great, one thing leads to another. It's not that. It's just a retelling of his life. Now, that's something we haven't looked at. Alexander the Great Pornography. How great are you? So this book was incredibly important

and was the basis of hundreds of variations in the Middle Age and the Renaissance. And like all novels, it has bits that are sort of rooted in truth, plenty else that is fabricated for the needs of the story or indeed the context. For example, I found this really interesting. In the versions in Christian Europe, Alexander is presented as Christian in the Islamic world. He's presented as a Muslim. And in each national context, he takes on the aspect of the national character. So in the British version, he wears a bowler hat. Loves a full English. Kabat tea. Kabat tea, exactly. Pinet Stella. Job done. But no, wherever this book is printed, he kind of reflects the place that it's being read. However, in time, this particular

book, the Alexander Romance, its popularity subsided. And if you would have pop into a bookshop today, you'd be far more likely to find the historical novels of Mary Renault than examples of the Alexander Romance. And this is basically because Renault, as well as her fellow historical novelist, Marguerite Jonsana, he wrote something called Memoirs of Hadrian and Robert Graves, who wrote I. Claudius, fashioned a new genre of invention. So Renaud's Alexander trilogy, published between 69 and 1981, told Alexander's life story with all the possibilities of post-war fiction. The most highly regarded of the trilogy is a book called The Persian Boy, takes up the story of

the Persian unit Bagoas, a man whom the Roman historian Curtius had portrayed as Alexander's lover, a role that apparently Bagoas had previously performed. for Darius III. So he clearly had a type this guy. Wow. So he was dating Darius III, or at least his lover, and then moved on to Alexander the Great. That feels unnecessarily risky to me.

Yeah, absolutely. He loves a bad boy. Yeah, not sure. That's what we're learning from this. A very powerful bad boy. It's time to settle down with someone who's just sort of quite calm. He can treat you nicely. Yeah, someone who's kind.

Yeah, exactly. God, hashtag be kind coming up. it's an underrated quality so some debate if baguus even existed but courteous he wasn't a fan of Alexander used his character to show that the king was not a good model

for Romans since he indulged far too much in booze and boys as described however mary and Renault the pen name of Elizabeth Chalang took the opposite view inspired in large in part really by her own sense of self this is the story of her

in 1948 she flees Britain with her partner Julie Mullard settles in South Africa. She felt there she was able to live and write as a queer woman as opposed to in England in 1948 where it's very difficult to do that. The Persian boy is told from the perspective of a character whom Renaud largely invented or at least embellished from snippets set down by Curtis and Plutarch. And in contrast to Terence Rattigan's adventure story, which insisted that Alexander was fleeing his father, Philip. Renaud, she posits this theory that it was Olympius Alexander's mother, who was the domineering personality

in Alexander the Great's childhood. In Renaud's story, she even tries to make her son straight, so tries to push back against his desires to be with a man. And although recently people like Hillary Mantella praised her work, at the time Renaud's novels were not always well received, as one reviewer noted of the Persian boy,

this is for an absolutely crushing review. The boy in the title is a sniveling, irritating sop of a unit. Unfortunately, as the first person, the raider, it's impossible to get away from him. Gee whiz. What an absolutely brutal review. But Renaud clearly adores Alexander the Great, and her championing of Alexander in fiction leads to her to write a biography of him, which is published in 1975, as the nature of Alexander, where she presented, and I find this quite interesting,

Alexander not only is great, but almost entirely without fault, one of history's heroes, she felt that like philetus had to die parmenon had to die Clytus was not murdered but killed and so on all this sort of stuff and one reviewer put it she comes up with a cast iron case for Alexander the humanist the scholar the sportsman and a military mastermind

what I find interesting about this I think it's impressive for someone who's responsible for so much bloodshed so many murders so many wars and there's still to be a debate about whether he was a good guy do you know what I mean all these people sold into slavery off the back of his military

expansions and it's still a debate as to whether he's a decent guy. Of course it is complicated, it is nuance, I just find it interesting that you can respond for so much death and people are still going, oh, Dano, he's quite a good guy. I hate to leap to the defence of a murderer.

I think you've got to take Alexander in his historical context, isn't it? Because that's what it meant to be a ruler in that time. Yeah. It was to go around killing everyone. Yeah, I mean, That is true, but let's face it, he doesn't feel like David Attenborough. Yeah, Mary Berry has a different sort of feeling to her. Yeah, and she's from a different era too.

She's not responsible for three million deaths. Yeah, exactly. So whether we agree with Renaud and this sort of idea of what he was like, he's open to question. But what is for certain is that the idea of Alexander refused to go away within those few years between the publication of the Persian boy and the nature of Alexander, these three more academic biographies of him were published in London with each new book a new style of presenting The Great Man, with Robin Lane Fox offering a Homeric hero, not so unlike Renauds, while Peter Green actually suggested a grimmer, sort of grimeier character, unclear perhaps, and certainly not a hero. Yet, the one thing that is true, so to wrap all this up, is that

Alexander, he just never goes away, even in classic books like the Gulliver's travels. It is a part in that where arriving on the island of Glob-Dub-Drib. Gulliver is taking to the Governor's Palace where he's invited to call up spirits from the past and ask questions to gain their wisdom. The first character, Lemuel Gulliver, calls up from this archive none other than Alexander the Great. And this is what it says in the book.

Alexander was called into the room. It was with great difficulty that I understood his Greek and had little of my own. He assured me on his honour that he was not poisoned but died of a bad fever by excessive drinking. But we will not end with Jonathan. and Swift, we will not end with the gulliver's travel. We will end with Mary Renaud, whose biography provides us with a fitting epitaph for this man, the final words for her beloved king. She claims

this is what Alexander said as he died, which she claims were his very own words. It is a lovely thing to live with courage and die leaving an everlasting fame. There you go. That's what Renaud said. It is a lovely thing to live with courage and die leaving an everlasting fame. some people who will read every single thing they can find in Alexander. And that's who we're trying to scoop up podcast-wise. Yeah, yeah. Absolutely. But it is amazing how in all these different forms, the written word, movies, even music,

that still today this man lives on. Like, that's amazing, isn't it, really? You think of that length of time he still exists. Do you mean he lives on in his human form? which is Ellis Jones. Yes, that's very true. Also, he had an impact on so many different countries and cultures. Yeah.

So he's a part of so many different national stories. Exactly. And they're so varied as well as countries, because his empire was so massive. Yes. So he'll continue to be read about and studied for forever. He's almost like an international character, isn't he? Like, it kind of feels like he's not of a nation. He's like he is international.

Tin, tin. Yeah, yeah. He's in everywhere. I guess because he conquered everywhere. But there's part of me that even feels like he's somehow English. I don't even know why that makes sense. I didn't study him at school, though. I wonder if kids studied him at school now.

We didn't do any ancient history at school. No, we didn't either. My schooling on the antiquity was limited to a load of stuff happening in Greece. Right, let's crack on with a 70s. Yeah. Old Greek guy got in a bath, water went up a bit, made a conclusion about that. Something important was drawn from that.

And then, yeah, I think they invented the Sundial. Right, World War II. Yeah. But, yeah, fascinating character. I'm really glad to sort of got to know him a little better because it's just remarkable the effect he's had. Undefeated in battle. Yeah, who are the great undefeated?

Usyk, Joe Kalzagi? Joe Kalzagi. Yeah, most people have. Yeah, even if it's not. defeat there's a draw but no 33 died undefeated incredible however we've all lived longer than him

so we win I think in this scheme of things if we were going to give out an award for a life best live we win and was he happy yeah exactly but I'd say probably not actually

yeah probably not probably why he was killing everyone there's one thing we learn there's one thing we learn Well, that's it for our Alexander, the great mini-series, 10 episodes. We hope you enjoyed it as much as we did. And if you've got any more ideas on mini-series we could do, we're all ears. So please do send them in.

Hello at oh-wattattime.com. And don't forget, if you want even more, oh-what a time right now, you've got all the bonus episode archives to enjoy. Loads of book reviews, loads of extra correspondence. If you want the extra version of O-Water-Time, you can support the show and subscribe. Go to oh-wattat-time.com. and you can sign up by a Wondery Plus and also on another slice.

Is there anything else you want to say about Alexander the Great before we draw this series to a close? Casting directors, casting agents. I feel ready. It just struck me. Bloody Ellie was dead at 33 and I'm 44. Yeah. What's your playing age?

I think I could go down to 35. But I would say, Elle, he was constantly at war, so probably looked a bit haggard. Of course. Great shot. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The tour you were meeting in the middle here. I've had a far easier life.

Yeah, exactly. And I'd like to say, I'm glad, I mean, I'm glad I live now and I never met you. Because it would, absolutely, I would have been a quivering wreck. But well done, but well done. I'm just going to throw this one out there just before we draw this mini-series to a conclusion. Tom, Darius the third? Oh, yeah. Thank you. Could do it, couldn't he?

I'll take it. It could do the running away. I can flee from a battle scene, like the best of it, exactly, yeah. Do you know what Alexander the Great reminds me of? Legendry, West Ham United fan, Nolzzi. Undefeated in battle. Undeated. Yeah.

Well, there we go. Well, we will do more of these in the future. Thank you very much for listening. It's been a joy. We'll be back very soon with yet more, well, non-Alexana the Great, related history in the very near future. See you soon. Bye. Goodbye.

Bye. Follow, oh, what a time on the Wondry app, Amazon music or wherever you get your podcast. And you can listen early and ad-free right now by joining Wondry Plus in the Wondry. app or on Apple Podcasts. And before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short survey at wondry.com slash survey.