Oh What A Time... - #142 Technophobia (Part 1)

Episode Date: October 20, 2025

It’s a new series of Oh What A Time (brought to you by Acast!) and this week we have for you: Luddites! Swing riots! Rebecca riots! Yes, this week we’re talking: Technophobia.Plus: how on earth did anyone get about internationally before the dawn of the internet? It’s absolutely bewildering. If you’ve got something to share, you can do that right here: [e-mail] can also follow us on: X (formerly Twitter) at @ohwhatatimepodAnd Instagram at @ohwhatatimepodAaannnd if you like it, why not drop us a review in your podcast app of choice?Thank you to Dan Evans for the artwork (idrawforfood.co.uk).And thank you for subscribing, we couldn’t make the show without you!Chris, Elis and Tom x Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

O Watertime is now on Patreon. You can get main feed episodes before everyone else, ad free, plus access to our full archive of bonus content, two bonus episodes every month, early access to live show tickets and access to the O Watertime Group chat. Plus if you become an O Watertime All-Timer, myself, Tom and Ellis, will riff on your name to postulate where else in history you might have popped up.

For all your options, you can go to patreon.com forward slash O-Watertime. Calgary, also known as the Blue Sky City. We get more sunny days than anywhere in the country, but more importantly, we're the Canadian capital of Blue Sky Thinking. This is where bold ideas meet big opportunity, where dreams become reality. Whether you're building your career or scaling your business, Calgary is where what if turns into what's next. It's possible here in Calgary, the Blue Sky City. Learn more at Calgary Economic Development.com. Hello and welcome to the new series of Oh, What a Time, the history podcast that asks.

And I think we might have covered this ground before, but having just come back from holiday, it's fresh in my mind, how on earth did anyone go abroad pre-internet? we have talked about it it's definitely worth going into again absolutely I know we've talked about this but I've basically I talked to my mum about how she did it right so we went on holiday to France

Sweden and you sort of Eurocamp with my sister my brother-in-law their kids and it was simple we booked it online we flew over I hired a car we drove to the thing using Google Maps and it just worked and it was fine right

I was quite late going abroad So a lot of my mates Had, lots of kids I was at school with Had gone abroad already They'd been on a plane So me and my sister really hassled my parents This would be about 1991 We were like, please everyone

Some people have been on planes Or please can we go somewhere That is in England on holiday Or Harlech I mean we did Harlech Castle It was very local our holiday Right I've got a vision of you

Stude in Camarthen pointing at the sky and saying what is that thing, mum? That big bird, what is that? She goes, that's not for you, Yale. A big shiny metal bird. And I really hassled my mum. And I was just like, on my dad,

I was like, it's not fair everyone else is doing it. Why can't we do it? It was so difficult. So basically my auntie, my mother's sister-in-law, had been to a good campsite in Brittany and had given her the page that was ripped out with a brochure,

sent it to my mother. And my mother then walked into a travel agent and said, this please. But I don't know I don't know how to book it So could you book it This one please Just to be clear

It had some information as to where that campsite It wasn't just a picture of the campsite And they're trying to work out from the mountains In the background which one it might be It's a drawn in crayon We knew it was in Brittany And we knew it was suitable Because my mother's sister-in-law said it was suitable

So they booked it They then had to get to France So my dad borrowed like a French A to Z from like Jeff at work. They didn't have Google Maps. They had to drive to Plymouth, which must have taken hours. Again, he would have asked around at work, how long will that take because the ferries at 8am or whatever?

A map so big that when you open it, it's bigger than the car. That's what they were like. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Bigger than the, yeah, sort of bonnet size. You could easily get changed behind it on a beach. It's so it's like that bigger map. There's so much guest work involved. And then, and then, sort of,

of you, so you drive to Plymouth, we caught the ferry to Roscoff, which I vividly remember, and then we had to drive to the campsite pre-Google maps, especially when you don't know the language, when you don't speak the language. It must have been such a pain in the ass. And now I think, like

my mother always used to take loads of food from home, like boxes of cornflakes and tea bags because you didn't know what they'd have there. And it's not like France is famous for his food either, is it? It's not. No, no. But in fairness, right, in fairness, you can't eat after 2pm because all the cafe is shut.

That's a good point. Yeah. And Italy's the same. So they're like, yeah, yeah, yeah. Sorry, if you wanted lunch, you needed it at lunchtime. And if you're too much fun on the beach, tough shit, I'm afraid. So you'd better have a big box of cornflakes in your suitcase because you can't eat now. And like, we were in France. We were driving around. We had a really great time. But my son lost his box. of badges and he was very, very upset. Okay. So I had to sort of retrace my steps and I remember, from the receipt,

I remember, I could Google map the sort of restaurant we'd been in and I could go back there and I could use Google to find out what the exact phrase was, my son has lost his box of badges, do you have it. Le box do badge.

The grand box do badge. Who a la grand box do badge? A bloat du badge. Stay down the rest. Strump. Man. But it's... Donle, we don't know.

It's actually, Mofil has Perto de Bage. So I was able to go in there. You're still getting a shrug, whatever you're back on. Yeah, yeah, and as soon as I went in there,

that's Mofist, isn't it, son? As soon as I went in there, as soon as I said, Boat de Badge, she was like, yeah, you're the guy whose son lost his box of badges. Don't worry. I've got, but like I never felt helpless.

Whereas like a load of my mates, especially when we were going on holiday to France. A friend of mine, he went on holiday to America and we were about 15. And then the first thing he said when he came back was, yeah, yeah, dad forgot that they drive on the right in America. And it was absolutely terrifying. The issue we had, right, was one morning we woke up slightly late, at a late breakfast.

My son loves birds. We went bird watching. And we missed the 2pm lunch cut off. Your son sounds pretty cool, by the way. Oh, he loves bird watching and badges. It's your son Bill Oddy. I've got chirp-matic, which is a app that I hold it up to birdsong, and it tells me what the bird is.

Oh, wow. My son is into magic and classical music. Yours is into birds and badges. What cool offspring we have, Bill. They're the hard kids at school. My son is into football and birds and birds song. When he joined nursery, I had to fill in a form of what his interests were. And I wrote down, birds and football.

And then handed it in. And then it was only when I was walking back. I was like, oh, God, they're going to think I'm the biggest geyser of all time. But yes, so because we missed the 2pm cutoff, then you're just walking around in vain. Yeah. Asking for, you know, cafes if, like, I remember we walked into, One, I said, he'd do any food?

He said, oh, we're doing cold food. I said, well, what sort of cold food? He went shrimps. I was like, my kids are not going to eat. An exclusively shrimp-based lunch. He'd have earned his shrimp badge, wouldn't he? That's a thing. That would be good.

Get that handed at the end of the meal. But yeah, you know, when you're older, it is just, especially with my mum as well. But she had three kids. It must have felt so different. I completely agree. I went to Corfu over the first. summer with some friends who also have kids with their kids we tried to book this minibus to get everyone around to get to a restaurant one night so that we can have a drink and we basically

couldn't do it on the internet which is impossible to do it ended up uh why it was just tricky to find the number for a cab firm in this small village vicinity where we were yeah yeah yeah they weren't on the internet ended up going to a local travel agent and she just sorted it straight away. And this was the moment where in 2025, I thought, oh, that's why they still exist. They actually can be quite useful. Because to my mind, I'm like, when I go down to high street, I'll see a travel agent. I think, why is that still there? But actually, you go in, these people obviously know their stuff and they can just make it much easier. I used to know a girl. I mean, this was when I was sort of around 20 or 21, since this is almost 25 years ago.

and her dream was to be a travel agent so she didn't go to university she was doing it right so she hadn't gone to university she'd always wanted to be a travel agent so she'd left school 18 and become a travel agent I don't know she's still in that job now because I haven't used a travel agent since the 90s

it's a strange dream that is it because your dream is your dream is not to see the world it's to help other people to see the world that's your dream it's more noble in a way Yeah, but I mean, I sort of get it because some people love organising. Yeah, it's very true. And, I mean, I'm not one of those people, and it's painfully obvious to anyone who's ever met me that I'm not one of those people.

But if you do like, I think you could, you'd get real pleasure from seeing how excited people were for their holiday. And also making great recommendations, you'd probably have really good holidays yourself because you know all the good deals. She'd always want to do it, but I think the internet is sort of, I'm presuming, has killed off her dream. let me give you a little story as to why I would be bad as a travel agent Claire and I went a holiday a few years ago I booked the plane tickets we then booked the long stay parking

at Heathrow Airport we drive to Heathrow drop off the car get on the plane off we go to Rome on the way to Rome I check our return tickets we're flying back to Stansted so our car is now parked in a long stay airport

where we are not returning to that airport. We've just left it and paid a lot of money to leave it in an airport we don't need to come back to. And more to the point, we can't come back to because that's not where the flight goes. So what did you do? We returned to Heathrow where it was, or Stansted,

and then went home and the next day had to go back to the first airport to get our car and bring it back. Oh my God, that's so depressing. And that's Crane's travel for you. Also, you don't drive, so that is, you have created Claire's problem. Did you turn to Claire and say, do you know what? There's no point in me going as well.

Was she angry? She wasn't delighted. Yeah. But was she angry? Yeah, she was quite annoyed. She was quite annoyed. But then it became quite funny in a weird way, but then it became annoying again. It sort of oscillated through the emotions throughout the week.

It was flipping hither and thither. Oh, dear. Calgary, also known as the Blue Sky City. We get more sunny days than anywhere in the country, but more importantly, we're the Canadian capital of Blue Sky Thinking. This is where bold ideas meet big opportunity, where dreams become reality. Whether you're building your career or scaling your business,

Calgary is where what if turns into what's next. It's possible here in Calgary, the Blue Sky City. Learn more at Calgaryconomicdevelopment.com. Right. Now, actually, Elle, you talking about ordering holidays online, all this sort of stuff, is quite an apt thing to bring up considering today's subject, isn't it? Yes, absolutely. What are we talking about today, Skull, do the business, what are we talking about? We're talking about technophobia, the times in history when people have been terrified at innovation.

That's what we're talking about. And later in the show, I'll be talking about the Rebecca riots, which I knew nothing about until researching it for this episode. That is my area of expertise. Oh, hello. I am obsessed with the Rebecca riots and have been since I was about 14. I am discussing the swing riots. And I'm going to be telling you about a 19th century group

that risked their lives to fight back against new technology here in England. Oh, okay. The travel agents. the travel agents yeah exactly the travel agent riots but before we get into that I want to bring up something which is genuinely quite remarkable okay this is something has happened in our time off over the summer of course we've had our

Alexander the great multi-series but we actually haven't been recording together for a few weeks because of that and something genuinely remarkable has happened that actually relates to technology as well do you remember quite recently I talked about the fact that my kids had, I bought them a 20 pound metal detector. You know about this? Oh yeah.

And we had been searching around my mother-in-law's garden in Norfolk for things. And we'd found, like, I more to the point and found like bottle lids and just various things of absolutely no value whatsoever. Okay? Yeah. So two weeks ago, Charlie, my seven-year-old, went out metal detecting. I wasn't there. This is his first trip without me. with his grand, my mother-in-law, and their neighbour.

And Charlie found a coin from the reign of Henry III, which I'm holding up here to the screen so you guys can see. Oh, my gosh, that is amazing. This is worth 400 quid, if you're interested. You're shucking up. I will put this on our Instagram. This is a stamped coin. So hand stamped by hammer from the era of Henry III.

So that is 1272 he passed away. Oh my God. And where did he find this? So basically his grand lives out in the countryside. So yeah, yeah, on the edge of her garden. Yeah. That's amazing. It's amazing.

I've looked up some stuff here. So he reigned until 1272. It says here that the Longsau Cross series is what this coin is. This is really interesting. It was introduced in order to prevent the coinage of the country being clipped where people would remove slivers of precious metal. The long cross also made it easier the task of cutting the coin into halves and quarters. So when this was around, people would cut these coins up for change essentially. And this is so old that this was the only coin available

at that point. Half pennies and farthings would only appear under Edward the first reign, which is 1272. And this penny here, if you're interested, which represented approximately a day's pay for a skilled labourer back then, could buy you two thousand eggs, two large loaves of bread, or at least two gallons of ale. So that's what this has worked. So this is 800 years old, this coin. Wow. That's fantastic.

Some poor labourer's worked all day. He's been paid. Yeah. And he's dropped his money on the way back from work. And he's like, oh, God. My gosh, he's dropped his entire pay package. Yeah, exactly. Oh, man.

And it's been in the mud for 800 years. And it's cost him two dozen eggs, two large loaves of bread. bread and two gallons of ale. That's actually not bad, is it, for a day's work. That's a decent, decent haul at a shot. I'll do that now. Yeah, absolutely. There was no cost of living crisis in the age of Henry III. Yeah. That's absolutely fantastic. Tom, that is astounding. It is astounding, isn't it? It genuinely is amazing. What are you going to do with it? Well, this we need to look into. I think actually single fines, things like that, you're, you can, you're able to keep. I think you should frame it or something rather than keep it. Otherwise, you'll

end up losing it in the house. Yes. Yeah. We've got like a coin jar in the corner where we just stick euros and stuff and we come back from holidays. You'll end up using it to pay for some parking in a rural, like some national trust building. Getting it down the penny arcade. Yeah.

It's amazing. And this is, so this is 800 years old or nearly 800 years ago. He must be thrilled with that as a find. He's so excited. He took it into school. Everyone just absolutely loved it. It's very sweet. Yeah, it's lovely. It's completely made his day.

And his brother found a button, which we pretended was of equal value, but it was probably only about 20 years old. Yeah, an 800-year-old. But yeah. So there you go. That's the find of the summer. An 800-year-old, Henry III coin for my son. Generally impressive. Can you please keep it safe? I will keep it safe.

Because you're the kind of person who keeps cars in long-stay car parks and he throw and then flies back to Stansted. So I'm worried you're going to destroy history in front of me. Does this reassure you? It's currently in an envelope that says silver coin Henry III on it. Is that? No. Which means that when someone breaks in the house, they can see exactly what it is. I'm all running off with it.

I'm not feeling massively reassured, actually. I reckon we're a day away from you whacking a stamp on that and putting it in a letterbox. It's the security equivalent of having a box and writing, this is where the valuables are on the box. Nick this. Yes, please. So there you go. Do what you should do. We should do Henry III. Oh, that's great.

Because I don't know anything about Henry the third. Okay, there you are. Well, I can do the coinage of Henry III because, you know, I'm a proud owner now. Before we crack into today's history, let's, as always, as is always right, do a little bit of correspondence. We've had so much brilliant stuff from you over the last few weeks. And lots of emails, actually, there's a subject that's really sort of seem to have struck a chord, which is pushy jobs in World War II. We've had loads of stuff on this from relations who fought, or more to the point, avoided fighting in World War II. And here's one now. This one says, hello, the funniest men in history, open brackets, podcast.

Thank you. Thank you for all the merriment and historical insight. Your search for cushy World War II experiences has taken me back to the experience of my granddad Joe, who after being a frontline truck driver in the army across North Africa, was then captured by German troops and spent them. remainder of his war in a prisoner of war camp in Austria. I thought this must have been an awful experience, surely, but, no doubt, sheltering me from the worst of it, he used to regale us with tales about the shoddy security of the camp and how he and his fellow prison mates used to escape at

night, wander up to the hills where locals would treat them to a meal. Everything was fine as long as they were back in their camp beds by morning, having broken back in. When asked why he didn't try to get back to Allied Tent Territory, he used to say they were very long way from anywhere at that camp and didn't much fancy the war. I'm sure that Tom Crane would have made the same decision, keep up the good podding, Pete Garrett. So there you are. So that's the experience of being a prisoner of war.

So that's obviously English or British member of the army in a German military prisoner of war camp. But at the evenings they all just sneak out every night and go and have a meal with the locals and then come back in again. Wow. That is also the luckiest prisoner of war story I've ever heard. Absolutely, yeah, yeah.

by a country mile. A strong anomaly, that, I'd say. There was a mass escape from a prisoner of war camp in Bridge End in South Wales at the end of the Second World War. Wow. A lot of German prisoners of war escaped. I think they dug out, but from what I remember, they went up to some bloke and they were like, you know, how to get into the town? He was like, you go down there, and then it's but off a mile to do you, right?

and he basically gave them in the good direction. Boys, I'll walk you if you want, because you'll never get there in the dark. Come, oh, come on then, all sent you to you. What we got? Can you twig the thing with chairman? This is a war. Well, in 2008, the first time I went to Berlin was about 2008,

we went to like a local Berlin bar. We were sat there, and there was an old man on his own having a beer, and we were chatting. And then he just like interrupted. He goes, are you English? We were like, yes. And I was thinking to himself, this is an old man

he's an old German man in Berlin he's seen some shit and I was like how do I get into it how do I find out and he said something like I used to live in Grimsby

and I was thinking you live in Grimsby yeah he has seen some shit and then eventually he revealed yes I was a prisoner of war in I think I swear it was Grimsby it was somewhere up north

and then yeah he was kept in he kept in the UK for like five years and then eventually went back I didn't drill into what he did probably better The fact he got out after five years, I'm guessing it's basically like tax fraud or something. What was he like? Yeah, very nice, very kindly.

It's weird with it, I mean, this is 2008, but I found it weird like, I was desperate to ask what actually he got up to. But there's that thing, I don't know, if I ever go to prison, it's like, I'm never going to go around asking people what they're in for. And it was similar. Yeah, yeah. It was a similar vibe. Yeah. White collar crime. White collar crime.

I was feeding my taxes. Sorry, sorry, obviously that's bad, but I didn't hurt anyone. It was white-collar crime. I cannot impress it enough. Yeah. Yeah. So, me and my account were in on it, okay?

Yeah. So do send in your German prisoner of war stories to P-O-box, B-O-W box. That's good. It was the fact you got there on the second. Second attempt is what I like. Exactly. You could hear the workings out.

No, I had worked it out, but I thought P.O. Box would be enough, and I thought it's not. You need to stick the W in. You do need to see. You can't. You can't, but yeah, still nice stuff, to be fair. It is nice stuff. Absolutely. Right.

Thank you very much, Pete Garrett, for sending that in. If anyone else has any fascinating family stories, any cushy times during war, you know how to get in contact. Here's out. All right, you horrible luck. Here's how you can stay in touch with the show. You can email us at hello at oh what a time.com. And you can follow us on Instagram and Twitter at Oh, what a time, pod. Now, clear off.

Calgary, also known as the Blue Sky City. We get more sunny days than anywhere in the country. But more importantly, we're the Canadian capital of Blue Sky Thinking. This is where bold ideas meet big opportunity, where dreams become reality. Whether you're building your career or scaling your business, Calgary is where what if turns into what's next. It's possible here in Calgary, the Blue Sky City. Learn more at calgaryconomicdevelopment.com.

All right, so this week we're talking about technophobia and later in the show, I'm talking about road rage 19th century style, the Rebecca riots. I'll be talking about the swing riots. And I am going to be talking to you about a 19th century group that risk their lives, as I say, to fight back against new technology. What are you like with new technology? Are you someone who braces it or do you like the status quo? Does it scare you? Let's talk about AI.

That's a big one now. I mean, how do you feel about it? Does it worry you well? Bad and I always thought I was bad But then I met my life And Her It is absolutely

Extraordinary watching To give me an example Oh I mean Watching her use a phone It's like watching A 19th century pensioner Being shown out to use a phone It's incredible

And she just doesn't learn And she doesn't like it And she doesn't think it's useful Like there are some people I know a couple of I've got a couple of friends were real gadget guys and they will buy the latest thing

I tend to wait until it's like the third generation of the thing because obviously the first ones are bigger and more expensive and they haven't quite ironed out all the kinks but I will get there eventually but I tend to come to technology late Did I tell you about the time I walked in

on my mum writing a letter on her computer and this is how little she knows you think Izzy's bad is how bad my mum was She hadn't opened up Microsoft Word. She had it on Excel spreadsheet and was writing a different word in every box. So she'd write, hello, and then she'd move to the next box and click it. I hope it would be, click next box.

And she'd been there for like half an hour. I was at most two sentences in. Oh, God. Amazing. I'm of the opinion. You've got to stay on top of technology. You can't let it run away from it. You've got to try Snapchat, TikTok.

You've got to try these things. Otherwise, you're just going to lose all sense of what popular culture is. But maybe that's fine. I want to play poo sticks above a canal. I want to just, you know, run in a meadow. That's what I want to do. Simple things, Wittle. I do I need to do Excel.

I broadly agree. I just find technology very boring. Okay. Ultimately. I just find it quite dull. I think it's winning the battle, though, well. Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Oh, I am King Canoot in this conversation, absolutely. Now, if anyone ever expresses a negative opinion about technology, so smartphones, AI, stuff like that, they say Izzy thinks this is a piece of rubbish, I don't want to use it, they might be referred to as a Luddite. Now, you've heard the phrase Luddite, okay? Yeah. This is a word that has been around since 1811 when an organised gang of English mechanics and their friends started smashing up weaving frames in factories and mills, ostensibly to preserve the jobs that are being lost through technological advancement. What I find quite interesting about that is it shows that change has always been scary. Change panicked people for their life, their welfare, you know, how they're going to continue

supporting their family. And in the same way that you see that now, people worry about AI. This is the big talking point at the time, isn't it? Especially in creative industries, it is a thing that people worry about. Actually, I can't say just especially in all industries, I'm sure. but then this movement of kind of technological advancement, the use of these machines and factories, people were genuinely panicked about what this meant for their livelihoods.

Yeah, well, it often creates jobs, but it often destroys jobs. Yeah. There's very few, I can count on one hand, the lessons I had in school that I vividly remember and being shocked by. Learning about the Nazis was definitely one. Romeo and Juliet sticks with me. Remember reading the story and going,

This is a blood, this Shakespeare guy is bloody good. Luddites, Luddites stick with me. Like the idea that a people would rise up and be like terrified of technology. I was like, yeah, that's like such an innately human emotion to really kick off about innovation. You're taking my jobs. I'm going to smash this place the ribbons. I hate the VHS video as well. I think you should rise up.

Yeah. I burned down three houses because of the mini-disc. That was what it was. I thought this is too big a step. Well, that's the other thing that scares me that there have been technologies that have come and gone in my lifetime. I was convinced the minidisc would really catch on.

I was such a huge investor of the minisk. Yeah, I had one as well. I've got, I've still got a shoebox full of minidist. I'm waiting for it to come back. Yeah. Well, it was so robust. It was that great advert where the guy was skateboarding over his mini discs and they still worked. They had a full section.

and HMV dedicated to minidisc. That's how much this new technology was backed and now it's nowhere. Have you seen, by the way, that cassettes are coming back? Yes. I was in a record shop the other day. They had cassettes in there. Who's doing that?

CDs are back in a big way as well. They've become massively popular again. CDs, yeah. It's because people want tangible stuff. The record is too big. People are sick of the, of, you know, just, I suppose, just grabbing stuff on Spotify. It's something quite satisfying about putting a record on.

So CDs are the other, of the, kind of the thing that are coming back now. So hang on, there was a trend towards vinyl, and now there's a trend towards CD. We're getting smaller. The next trend obviously is the mini-disc. My hesitancy to bid them is about to pay off in a big way. You've got a shoebox worth one and a half million pounds

in your attic full of mini-disc originals. Absolutely mad that Chris's mini-discs are worth more than your Henry the third 800 of your kind. He's got an original mini-disc copy of the wide. album, which is worth 48,000 pounds. In 800 years, a child with a metal detector will find near a forest

my buried box of mini-discs. And they will still work. That's how robust the minisk is. Now, for those you don't know, so you guys, of course, were across the Luddite movement because it was taught in school. For overseas, listeners, especially you may not know about this. The movement began in Nottingham.

It quickly spread through to Lancashire, West Yorkshire, the Peak District. And it gained its name through a man, called, can you remember, Chris, can you still remember that from school, the guy who was leading at all, by all accounts, a man called Ned Lud, okay, who also went by the names King Lud and Captain Lud, which to me makes you sound like he's on a stag to. I can imagine on the back of a shirt, King Lud. Ned Lud is a very evocative name and the perfect name for this role he will play in his life. Absolutely. Yeah. You can imagine Ned Lud at the end of

the bar, getting more and more drunk in the local, and eventually go, I'm going to do something about it. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You can only push a man so far. Okay. Leave it, Ludd. Leave it, Ned.

Well, you're right, Chris. He is sort of evocative name, and it does speak to this person who's sort of graces and brave going to do something about it. And indeed, quickly, dramatic tales of Ned Ludd's escapades are merged. According to one story, published in Nottingham in the newspapers there in 1811, Ludd was a weaver from Anstey near Leicester in the 1779. He smashed up two knitting frames as revenge after being taunted or whipped at work. Another version has him attacking frames with a hammer after being told by his father to square his needles.

But interestingly, Chris, you talk about it being this evocative name. It's a name that makes you picture a particular type of person. It's not surprising that it has that quality because it's now accepted that actually he was mythical. This name was created. It was an idea to suit They needed a figurehead They wanted someone that people could speak of And spread tails of

And this was the name they came up with This didn't matter though What mattered I suppose was the image Of a figure smashing up frames with a hammer Since this was the modus operandi Of the Luddites After their formation in 1811 Now the first recorded attack

Takes place on the 11th of March 1811 In the Nottinghamshire town of Arnold this is how a local newspaper reported it. Between dusk and dawn, no less than 60 stocking frames were broken by the mob, swarming around the town, entering the houses of unpopular stockingers and breaking the frames of special hated hosiers. The general populace so far from preventing actually aided and abetted the disturbance, cheering on the frame breakers and obstructing the authorities. So the local people were so behind this, they were stopping the authorities from doing anything, cheering them on as they were in there, smashing everything up.

Well, you know why that is? No CCTV. Yep. So you'd be like, yeah, fine. I hate these things. I'm going to smash them up. No one knows me. Yeah, exactly.

Incidentally, there's a little tangent. The idea of aiding and abetting someone smashing something up and doing a crime reminded me a little story. I'll just tell you this little story because it just made me laugh. I've speaking to Claire about it last night. Claire's old flatmates was just about 10 years ago. Oh, no longer than that now. It's about 15 years ago.

moved into a new house in Islington, and the first night they moved in, they came back from a night out at like one in the morning, and they met their new neighbours, who it turned out were moving out, and the neighbours were moving everything out of the house into a van, and they were all pissed. They're like, you all right, it's fine, and our first day, we'll help you. And Claire's old flatmates all helped the new neighbours move everything out of the neighbour's house into a van, and they shook hands and said, so nice to meet you, sorry, we're not going to live next door, off they drove, they go to sleep. Next morning, there's a knock on the door, open the door, it's a policeman.

Last night, the neighbour's house was broken into and everything was stolen. Oh, my God. Oh, my God, that is. Have you any idea what happened? I've never heard that. That's insane. And they realised that they had, instead of meeting the new neighbours and helping them as they moved out, literally cleared out their neighbours home.

home from everything of value. How is, how is every single aspect of your life a sitcom? That is the most staggering thing I've ever heard in my life. It's amazing, isn't it? Absolutely amazing. Did they feel guilt? I would feel terrible guilt if I did that. Yeah, they felt awful about it.

And then obviously the neighbours returned from, I've seen they were on holiday or what it was. And then they had to explain, yeah, we help them take everything. But we did think it was you, in our defence. We were trying to do a good thing. Yeah. I think in retrospect, it's not that usual someone to move out at one in the morning, is it? I would add that to the... Do you get a cheaper rate from the removal men?

Exactly. So, as I say, there was support, they aided and abetted, there was a popular enthusiasm for the Luddites, whose cause represented an attack on the excesses of capital and exploitation of workers. But also, because due to the frame-breaking act of 1812, showed you how brave these people were, smashing the machines that destroyed employment opportunities and reduced wages became a capital crime, which meant if you were caught smashing one of these

machines, you face the death penalty. As the poet Lord Byron famously wrote, human life was valued as something less than the price of a stocking frame. That's how he described it. So we actually know a fair amount about the individuals who risk their lives. For example, there's one participant in West Yorkshire called Enoch Taylor, who's a blacksmith in Marsden near Huddersfield, who's known to have manufactured several sledgehammers known as Enoch's for use by his fellow Luddites in their smashing frenzies. I think that's one of the most macho jobs I've ever heard of, making sledgehammers for use in riots. If podcaster is on one end of the scale of tough manly jobs, making sledgehammers for riots

is at the other end. I would not mess with him. Yes. I make sort of angry hammers. Yeah, angry hammers. One of those hammers else, it still survives. It's housed at Huddersfield's Tulson Museum. And it would do serious damage if Weald is still today.

It's still incredibly strong object. It still survived today. Has it got, I'd love to know if he's got marks on it and things like that, you know? You can see things have been smashed up. Travel to Huddersfield and you can find out. Ironically, Enoch Taylor, together with his brother James, also, now this is a bit of double crossing, he also manufactured machines, including a cropper which did the labour of ten people. So he's struggled to pick a slide side there, I'd say.

Yeah, yeah. I would say he's hedging his bets. Unless his idea is they use the hammer to smash the machine, which means he then gets to build another machine. And they just keep smashing them, so they're always needing a new machine. The guy's an absolute genius. Exactly. We also know the name of the leader of the local Luddites, who's George Meller. He worked at a finishing shop in Longgrove Bridge, situated about 1.2 kilometres outside Huddersfield Town Centre on what is today, Manchester Road.

Sadly for Mella, the authorities also knew his name, as well as those of several of his comrades. It was said they'd been betrayed by a turncoat, and he was ultimately imprisoned and then executed at York Castle in 1813 for his role. So people were executed for smashing up these machines. By the end of their campaign, more than 50 people had lost their lives, Luddites and manufacturers alike. 70 people were transported, thousands of soldiers had been deployed to keep order. And in the middle of it, the Prime Minister Spencer Percival was assassinated and the government spy network went into overdrive. So it's quite a sort of lively time to be alive, I'd say, a lot going on. And they themselves have become a group deeply loved by the working population.

This is also the really interesting thing about it, that the masses just adored these people. I think this is best understood through the ways and means by which Luddite tales were passed around through songs and poems. For example, General Ludd's triumph, one of the earliest Luddite tunes to be written, appeared in circulation in December 1811, said, chant no more your old rhymes about bold Robin Hood. His feats I but little admire. I will sing the achievements of General Ludd, now the hero of Nottingham Shire. So he was being talked about in the same breath. of Robin Hood. In fact, the connection between the Luddites and Robin Hood was there from the outset.

Some of Ned Ludd's first correspondence was said to become from an office situated in Robin Hood's cave, Sherwood Forest. Now, as a movement expanded into other areas, the singing took on different forms. There were songs of appeal, songs that get the blood flowing, and songs which establish common cause. I'll end with this little song. You heroes of England who wish to have a trade, be true to each other and be not afraid. Though the bayonet is fixed they can do no good as long as we keep up the rules of general lud there you go so he in song in verse in poetry this man was celebrated and you can see why he may not be true but he represented sort of brave person that was putting their life literally on the line for the work and livelihood of

others but the issue is though what would he have thought of chat GPT Exactly It'd be running around Britain smashing every screen Every router Pulling out the cables from every router Oh yeah You'd have a Nokia phone

Yeah But it would never be on Oh sorry I never think to turn my mobile phone on Then why you have it He's basically my mum Right, that's the end of part one. If you want to get part two right now, you can buy us a coffee, yeah, and you can get part two, plus two bonus episodes every month,

plus our full archive of bonus episodes by signing up and becoming a subscriber to this podcast. For all of your options, you can go to ohwatertime.com, and you will see the links right there. Otherwise, we'll see you tomorrow for part two of technophobia. Bye. Bye. I'm going to be able to be. I'm going to be. Calgary, also known as the Blue Sky City.

We get more sunny days than anywhere in the country, but more importantly, we're the Canadian capital of blue sky thinking. This is where bold ideas meet big opportunity, where dreams become reality. Whether you're building your career or scaling your business, Calgary is where what if turns into what's next. It's possible here in Calgary, the Blue Sky City. Learn more at Calgary Economic Development.com. Oh, what time is now. on Patreon you can get main feed episodes before everyone else add free plus access to our full archive of bonus content two bonus episodes every month early access to live show tickets and

access to the oh what a time group chat plus if you become an oh what a time all time myself tom and ellis will riff on your name to postulate where else in history you might have popped up for all your options you can go to patreon.com forward slash oh what a time