Oh What A Time... - #147 Traitors (Part 1)

Episode Date: November 10, 2025

Everyone is talking about Traitors (the TV show) but this week we’re talking traitors (of the disloyal kind). We have a range of World War 2 turncoats to discuss for you: Lord Haw Haw, Axis Sally and how about.. accidental traitor, P G Wodehouse?And this episode we’re discussing how a single google of ‘sheds’ can result in you being shown sheds for the rest of your life. If you’ve got anything to add on this or anything else, you know what to do: [e-mail] in huge news, Oh What A Time is now on Patreon! From content you’ve never heard before to the incredible Oh What A Time chat group, there’s so much more OWAT to be enjoyed!On our Patreon you’ll now find:•The full archive of bonus episodes•Brand new bonus episodes each month•OWAT subscriber group chats•Loads of extra perks for supporters of the show•PLUS ad-free episodes earlier than everyone elseJoin us at 👉 patreon.com/ohwhatatimeAnd as a special thank you for joining, use the code CUSTARD for 25% off your first month.You can also follow us on: X (formerly Twitter) at @ohwhatatimepodAnd Instagram at @ohwhatatimepodAaannnd if you like it, why not drop us a review in your podcast app of choice?Thank you to Dan Evans for the artwork (idrawforfood.co.uk).Chris, Elis and Tom x Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

O-Water Time is now on Patreon. You can get main feed episodes before everyone else, ad-free, plus access to our full archive of bonus content, two bonus episodes every month, early access to live show tickets and access to the O-Watertime group chat. Plus, if you become an O-Water-Time all-timer, myself, Tom and Ellis, will riff on your name to postulate where else in history you might have popped up.

For all your options, you can go to patreon.com forward slash O-Water Time. Hello and welcome to all at a time, the podcast that asks the question, how did anyone get better from anything before targeted ads on social media that promise to heal or kill with the ailment that social media knows that you're bothered about? So, for instance, if you are on,

Instagram or Facebook and you've mentioned your wife that you've got a bad back then for the next three months you'll get the same advert. The Claricon 5,000 foam roller. Have you got a bad back? This is Angie. She's had a

bad back for ten years and she used it once and now she's completely cured and she's two inches taller and her life's better and her husband hasn't left that and it's only 199-99. So I had I had a slightly bad back, and I must have...

I think I googled, I don't know, lower back stretches, and now that's all I get. And it would be, it'll be like a Japanese bloke lying on the thing, and they'd be like, I've had a bad back for 50 years. But now, thanks to this, and it's only 1999. And the TripAdvisor reviews are genuine. And you're like, okay, well, that's immediately put me off. Are you an apologist for the iPhone listening in?

because actually it's quite useful, is that what you're saying? You're saying it should listen into all your conversation. You're comfortable with that because it's been giving you something back. You're not meant to say this, but yes, I have bought so many things because of targeted ads. I am... You're the only person who read 1984, not in the way it was intended. You were not really pro the screen. I am extremely easily led, and if I get a targeted ad that promises that the...

Not TripAdvisor, what's the kind of... The trust pilot reviews are genuine. I'm like, okay, this is the thing I'm going to buy. Yeah, yeah, yeah. What are your targeted ads, Chris? What do you get? Well, I was going to say, I had a slightly ominous one, which is that there was a mole I was a bit worried about.

So I went down a rabbit hole of Googling similar moles, and I was like, ah, this is basically okay. And then all my ads were like, don't you think you should do some mole mapping? Don't you think? Don't you think, why I risk it? Go to a doctor. Go to a specialist.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, I've had that one as well. Treatments. I shouldn't have Googled it. Should have gone straight to a medical professional. And that's what we'll be doing on our next subscriber special. We're going to be mapping skulls, moles, L and I. So sign up.

You do have to be careful in this modern age what you Google, because it will stay with you for weeks, months, maybe even years. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Every turn you'll be reminded of sheds. If like me in the summer you looked at a shed and then subsequently bought a shed Here we are, it's October I've had the shed up four or five months

I'm still getting shown sheds Sometimes I get shown the shed I bought From the shed company I bought it from I don't want two Which comedian is, it was got that bit And he says, you know, when I bought my toilet seat off Amazon That wasn't purchase one

In a toilet seat purchasing addiction I've got one toilet in my house I needed a toilet seat. I bought it. Why you constantly... I can't remember which stand-up it was was making this point. But that's the thing.

The shed people now think that you want to buy sheds. Infinite sheds. You've got multiple gardens. What do you think of this, Elle? Yeah. We had a new bathroom put in a year ago now. Okay.

And Claire bought such a particularly shaped toilet. It's a sort of shape of toilet I've never seen before. and there's only one toilet seat that goes with it. And it's quite expensive the toilet seat that fits this toilet. So we still haven't got around to buy this toilet seat because we keep going to do it. And then we'll go, ah, yeah, but it's quite a lot of money. And then we'll do it when, you know, we're a bit more flush.

No pun intended. So we've been toilet seat free for the last year. Really? Yeah, absolutely. We're hovers. What? Like a pub in an area that's got terrible drug addiction issues. Sorry, exactly.

The metallic hoaxies. The old metallic, you've got a metallic horseshoe toilet. We've also cut off the bottom of our toilet door so you can see your feet under me. Like a pub and a shittall? Have you got UV lights in there as well? Because your kids are on Coke. Exactly. Meads must.

They live in London. We've actually got a similar issue. We've got a downstairs toilet. Yeah. So the bathroom upstairs, a downstairs toilet that's very small. And our house is about 100 years old. And I thought, it can't be that small. I know it's a bit tight in there, but it's not that small.

So we bought quite a nice new toilet seat because it was obviously clearly an old toilet seat. You now can't close the door because the toilet seat shuts out too much. But I didn't think to measure it. Can you sit down and use the toilet? No, you can't. So is it impossible to do a poo down?

What you can do? No, it is. So if you're standard, outside our downstairs toilet. The door obviously opens inward to about 45 degrees. Right. So then you've got to tuck yourself

into the remaining gap and then squeeze around and then you can close the door. Isn't absolutely incredible? And then you can lock the door from the inside. And then obviously when you're finished you stand up, you open the door

to 45 degrees. You sort of slither. around the gap and then you close it behind you. But it's not, it's not a, yeah, it takes some explaining. It's not a smooth process. Claire's mum used to live in such a small fisherman's cottage in North Norfolk. The toilet was so thin that if you were going to do a sit down, and if you could do it number two, you had to reverse into the toilet and then sit down.

It was basically impossible to turn once you were in the air. You couldn't go into the little room and turn. I thought you were going to make a little room. joke is that you had to press your butt against the door and try and hope it was explosive enough to reach the toilet no it was just too tight to turn but i just think with those scenarios what happens if you're inviting like a lot of rugby players round well they use the guard what do you think crane's mother-in-law's like the obvious answer inviting the british lions round for a tea party that's such a good point skull no but we've all got big

friends? Yes. Like what happens if Craig Davis comes round? What happens then? There's no plan for that. Not to Claire's mother's house, obviously. Okay. What would we do then? Well, I don't know. But Claire's mothers must have big friends.

I mean, I'm not sure now's the place for you to start. She has lots of friends in a variety of sizes. I mean, maybe, you know, they always said people in the past were smaller than they were now. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, no, I think there is an element of that. I think a fisherman from North

Norfolk in the early 19th century, whenever it was built, could easily have turned in there. Probably two fishermen could have got in side by side and turned at the same time. It would have been fine. The first flat, well yeah, but the average height has grown quite a lot over the last 150 years or so.

We looked at a house before we bought this one, which is actually the oldest house in the area by quite some distance. But It was before door frames were standardised. So I just banged my head probably eight times on the visit and thought, this is unsustainable. Because I'm by no means the tallest person, my friendship group.

If I'm banging my head seven or eight times a morning, I cannot live here and I don't know who can live here. If you and Izzy are planning a dinner party and are having to make a list of friends and crossing out people who are taller than five foot eight, If it becomes an entirely hype-based gathering. Sending text messages. How tall are you roughly? Shoes off. Shoes off, yeah. Sox off, that any better?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You'll get a couple of millimeters, I think, if you take the socks off. Do you want a mind-blown fact? Yes. I've always heard that people in the past were shorter, but I never really believed it. I've now got in front of me the average adult height of a person in the UK in the year 1800.

Would you care to guess what the average height is? Male or female? I've got both, so you can... Okay. Well, it's obviously going to be small because of the way you've sort of built into that fact. It would be quite weird if it's just like 5-11 or whatever. I'm going to say 5'4 for the men and 4 foot 11 for the women.

I'm going to go lower. I am. I'm going to go average height of 5 foot 2 for men and 5 foot for women. 5 foot for the men. Are you sure? Every man in the UK in 1800 was the same height as Lily Allen. You said average height. Yeah, that's the mean.

So I'm assuming these people higher and smaller. Have you met my mum? You've met my mum, Tom. Mom's five foot. Of course, many times, yeah. So all the, you know, on average, the men in Britain are two inches tall than my mother. Tom, you've got underneath. Yes, I'm sticking with it.

You're underneath the average. It's five foot five inches for men in 1800. and for women, five foot one and a half inches. Oh my God, so my mother's short by the standards of 1800. She's going to be absolutely devastated with that. She's historically short. She's historically short. That is short, isn't it?

5 foot 5 for men. On average, yeah. That's crazy. Yeah. I've done the classic thing of scuppering how impressive a fact is by going too low. Every man was the height of Ronnie Corbett, according to Tom. So there's amazing fact, isn't it? Five foot five in 1800?

It's a very good fact. So yeah, in conclusion, how do you kill ailments without an awful lot of snake oil being sold to you on Facebook? And if Zuckerberg is listening, Elle is basically saying, just listen in, put on all the microphones. All the gadgets. It's not a problem. Come round to his house in Crystal Palace and put one in the wall and he will not have an issue with it. I think I must have googled weak forearms because I'm now always being sent an advert for the Gripzilla, which is apparently going to give me forearms like a bodybuilder with just 20 minutes a day.

That's amazing. Well, I look forward to those emerging in the coming months. Before we crack into the history today, shall we do a little bit of correspondence? It can't just be our worries. Let's also see what our listeners have on the mind. So, you sent us some correspondence, have you? Well, let's take a look at you then. Scott Mayo has emailed the show to say,

Shumai, boys, first off, your podcast has got me through long journeys and tough times, so thank you for keeping me sane with your insanity. Thank you very much, Scott. Thank you, Scott. Listening to you talk about long throws, which is a game I talked about a couple of weeks ago that I used to play at secondary school where I'd just get a ball and my friend Chris and I and Rob, and a variety of us would just play long throw. Yeah, yeah. Throw it backwards and forward in the playground. That was our fun.

That was a simpler time. It got me thinking, so Scott, about games me and my mates used to play, which somehow led to me becoming the official Highland Games haggis hurling champion of 2023. Wow. There's a claim to fame. Here's the story. We were doing the NC 500 Scotland trip in a camper van. Most nights we ended up playing games, spike ball on the beach, a bit of cricket,

and a made-up game where one of us stood on the shore. This sounds brilliant. The rest of them stood in the sea, and they launched a ball into the sea. Those of the sea had to wrestle for it, like a pound-land version of gladiators. I was usually to throw it, and I love throwing it in as hard as I could.

Incidentally, I went to Corfu with some friends in the last year. We played a game where we had a ball that would skip across the top of the sea. And we all stood in the sea and skipped the ball to each other. It was so much fun. It's the best. If you played that game.

We should do the Highland Games as a topic. The Highland Games and two other versions of, you know, something. Well, I only know the tree throwing, the stump throwing. Kaber tossing. That's it, Kaber tossing. That's my only, what other ones are there? They just all look like big strong labs. Whenever the Highland Games is on telly, I only see him tossing the Kaiba.

What else is there? occasionally a barrel. Yeah, yeah, big, strong boys. Yeah. The sword of men, Elle, who would struggle to turn around in Claire's grandmother's toilet, basically. And lifting up those massive stones.

Have you seen that Irish guy, John, who lifts up big stones? And all his men is like, come up in John. Go on, John. Up in course, John. Yes, John. Yes, John.

Is this world's strongest man? No, he's just a bloke called John from Cork. That's very good. I'll tell you the Irish sport that I'm really into. My algorithm is constantly showing me it. Is that sport in Ireland where they're chucking like a ball up at like a country lane? Do you know what? Oh, yes.

A really hard metal ball. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And the first few times I'm like, what is this absolute nonsense? And then you get into it. You get into the characters and I get into the crowd and the fans. Like, oh, go on, look on the kids like running up. the country lane after the ball as well it's better than the Premier League it's such a heavy ball

I think that's worth mentioning that this ball is launched incredible speed at people who are gathered at the under end of the road like whizzes past them and it's like a proper lead ball and it'll be so embarrassing if you had to go at it how rubbish we'd all be do you know what as well that the action they used to chuck the ball down the country lane

which is like they wind it up they wind up their arm like Inspector Gadget yeah yeah yeah like a box and a cartoon. It's like a cartoon. Before throwing a haymaker. The first time I was like, that will never work.

It works. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's amazing. Boy, does it work? If you've seen any of that, hello at oh what a time.com, have you ever been to live ball chuck? Have you played it?

Then get in contact. So Scott has played this game on the beach, okay? And then he says, later that week, we stumbled across a highland games by chance. That's quite an exciting thing to stumble across. I love that. A few of us signed up for different events,

One of my mates, an ex-Welish international runner, flew round the track. I, dressed as a granny for reasons, I still can't explain, entered the haggis hurling. And out of 50 competitors... Is he going to stag, Gossomit? No, doesn't mention a stag. It's just a trip with friends and a camper van. And out of 50 competitors... Jeff Cape Stagg.

Out of 50 competitors in the haggis hurling, I somehow won. I was the champion. The prize of the haggis I'd lobbed. I was told not to eat it, though, because it'd been frozen and defrosted too many times. It genuinely left me distraught. And so a consolation was a tenor and a mars. bar so i did the only thing that made sense i got a tattoo to celebrate and here's the twist is a nice end to it in my next job interview the panel asked about my values and behaviours i stuck my foot on

the desk and showed them the tattoo and they burst out laughing and i got the job not bad for a lad in a granny outfit throwing a sheep stomach around keep up the good word oh miss it so there you go so scott by chance came across a highland games entered the haggis throwing competition and mailed it That's the sort of listeners we've got. The sort of champions that we're dealing with on this show. I love haggis. It gets a terribly bad rap, haggis. I think it's absolutely delicious.

You can get a superb haggis opposite the Pleasence Dome, L, in Edinburgh. The Pleasant's Dome is a fish and chip shop at the Edinburgh Festival. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I've eaten about 7,000 haggis from there. And I will continue to do so. Bring it on. Absolutely. Haggis breakfast lunch and breakfast dinner and tea.

Love it. Right. If you have anything you want to send the show, there's many ways to do it. Here's how. All right, you horrible luck. Here's how you can stay in touch with the show. You can email us at hello at oh, what a time.com. And you can follow us on Instagram and Twitter at oh, what a time pod. Now, clear off. Right, now it's time to shout out our oh what a time all timers, the elite subscribers to this wonderful podcast on Patreon. We're on Patreon now, patreon.com forward slash oh, what a time. We've got two names here who are all timers, and we're now going to postulate where in history these guys and girls may have been.

And I'll start with the name I'm going to struggle to pronounce. You're going to have to correct me, Elle. Ephion Jones? Avion Jones. he might be working in Silicon Valley he might be a top dog at Meta he might be working for a blue chip company

however he sounds like someone from this book before Rebecca popular protests in Wales 1793 to 1845 by David Jones if he's called Avion Jones let's have a look so I mean I'm imagining

he's about five foot three barrel chest incredibly hairy four arms He's the kind of person who, even in the area is not affected by enclosure, the poorer classes were worried because the Crown, important landowners and lesser freeholders were reasserting their rights to land. This new aggressive spirit shown by royal agents alarm both farmers and squatters. And they sometimes combined as at Llandurog in Canavanshire

to resist the Crown's demands. He is a farmer. Basically, you can't make ends meet in 80.6. And he's got an absolutely terrible. terrible life. Sorry, Avion. There we go. Or he works at Google head office, you're saying, and is currently in a breakout room, brainstorming stuff on a beanbag.

Well, there were cheese riots in Carmarthen in like 1890, and he was heavily involved in there. Cheese riots. Love it. Get you a man who can do anything. Good stuff. Do you want one more? Oh, yes, please. Let's have one more, of course. One more of our all-timers is Charlotte Bradley.

Charlotte Bradley. Tom? Charlotte Bradley sounds to me like one of the early adventurers. I'm thinking like, you know, it's like the early days of flight, that sort of time. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Sort of plane where half the time

it would go up for four seconds and then plowl straight down at incredible. But I'm imagining one of the early pilots. Lost over a body of water. Yeah, exactly, yeah. Try to fly the channel. Or the suffragette who persuaded Emily Baz punkist. I think maybe you should run in front of the horse, actually.

I think... I've got an answer. I'd love to. But of all the animals, I can't go near it. I forgot my anti-histamine. The problem is, my bloody eyes will run, and I will look bad on the front cover of the paper if I do it, so I really think you should bloody throw yourself and run the king's horse.

Running eyes will maybe look emotional. That isn't doing much for the suffragette movement. Really, Charlotte? Because obviously, when we were drawing lots, your name, I know, but there's bloody allergy. For God, I hate... Hey, listen, Emeline, I hate it as much as you, okay? But I think for the op-a-dix, I think it would be much better if you did that.

Anyway, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, bye now, bye now, bye now. Different but equally bleak past lives there for our all-timers. Don't forget, you can join our all-timers category on Patreon and any of our tears, if you want to support the show, here's how. Hello again, you are of a lot, enjoying the show. Well, why not show the love by becoming a Patreon supporter today? For a mere handful of farthings, you can get ad-free shows, two bonus subscriber episodes each month, access to all the past bonus eps,

first dibs on live tickets, and even help decide what subjects the boys cover next. Your support makes everything possible, so sign up today at Patreon. dot com slash oh what's a time or oh what's a time.com. What are you waiting for? Stop dawdling. All right.

So this week we're talking traitors. Not the TV show, actual traitors. What are you boys going to be talking about? Well, I'm going to be discussing two traitors during the Second World War, who I'd never heard of. So I'm really looking forward to get. I've just googled Emily in Pankhurst, and she was from Mosside, so she would have sounded like Liam Gallagher. And can we hear a bit of that, Elle?

Yeah. You wouldn't mind. I just think the time's right for Universal Suffrage. I think women should get the ball, no what I mean? Really difficult relationship with her sister. Yeah. Both very talented suffragettes. And Chris, what are you doing to kick off this show on traitors?

I'm going to discuss the last man hung in the UK for high treason. Oh, wow. It is Lord Hawaugh. So, here we go. I actually probably go on the Wikipedia for Lord Hawaugh once a year. Okay. Because I always like, I just need reminding of how mad this story is. I don't know anything about it.

Yeah, really? No, not at all. It's also still the person I think of when I think of a traitor. The archetypal traitor. Like the most infamous traitor. So during the Second World War... What about nasty Nick in Big Brother Series 1? Would you not say, is that?

He's up there? He's up there. Or Declan Rice. During the Second World War, one of the most infamous voices on British radio wasn't broadcast by the BBC. It came from Nazi Germany. The broadcaster himself was William Joyce,

better known by his nickname Lord Hawhor. His role was simple and sinister. to speak to Britain from Germany and to try to undermine morale, spread fear and make it seem as though the Nazi war machine could not be stopped. Germany calling, Germany calling. It's haunting when you listen to him.

And what's so spooky, it's so haunting, because you can still hear them. Because obviously they were recorded. So he's got a really haunting voice. Germany calling, Germany calling. Do you say this is a British chap? Yeah, it's a British chap. And I think he put on the affectation of an upper class, a gentleman,

hence the name Lord Hawhor. That was obviously a nickname. And also, Chris, that'll be because that's how everyone on British radio at that point sounded. That's true. Because there was literally no cultural or regional variation at all. Do you know what? I was watching a clip this morning of one of the survivors of the Titanic being interviewed in like 19 late 70s. And he was just like,

Oh, I've seen that. He was just like a dude on the ship, like, not particularly senior. And he was so posh. And everyone who's interviewed, who live through the kind of 1915s and made it to the 70s, they all speak either incredibly posh or the most cockney voices you've ever heard. I don't know, well, there's nothing else. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, you know, I used to live on the old Kent Road.

14 of us in a single road house. Or, hello. That's the other voices. There's no other voices. Oh dear. Anyway. So, back to Lord Hawhor. His show, Germany Calling, first aired on the 18th of September, 1939,

just weeks after the war began. It was produced by Goebbels' propaganda ministry, and the opening became notorious. Instead of an impression, let's hear a bit of it. Germany calling. Germany calling. Here are the right center, Ham-Busch, Station Bremen. and station DXB on the 3rd 1 metre fat.

This evening, I am talking to you about Germany. Let me tell you that in Germany, there still remains the spirit of unity and the spirit of strength. So there we go. Germany calling, Germany calling, delivered in that nasal, sneering, voice that British listeners recognized and tested. The

program kept going, and this is what I find astonishing, until April 1945. I keep meaning to see what he was broadcasting at the very end. No, it's going quite well, actually. I don't know what you're all talking about. It's fine. When you're still having to turn out content

and it's obviously going so badly for you. The reason he stopped broadcast in April 1945 was because the British troops captured the Hamburg station from which he was broadcasting. And one of the first things they did, which is brilliant, was they put on British voices on the air to mock Joyce himself. Oh, yes.

Brilliant. When they got hold of the radio station, which is obviously great. So who was Lord Hawor? Well, his name was William Joyce, born in Brooklyn, New York in 1906, to an Irish Catholic father and an Anglo-Irish mother. The family moved back to Ireland when he was a child settling near Galway. And what's astonishing for me is that I've got family on my maternal side from Ireland who would have been around Galway around this time.

And it's not a big place. So my ancestors probably would have walked past Lord Hawor on the high street. So that's why you're a traitor. It's in the blood. And do you think that's why you've moved into radio and podcasting? Just waiting for the Great War to start podcasting. So you can undermine via nine. The 90s football.

Give up, Stama. Yes, this was a violent political island that William Joyce grew up in. It was obviously the years of the Easter Rising, the War of Independence, Civil War. And interestingly, although they were in Galway, the Joyce family were loyalist and pro-British. And young William, therefore, sided with the British authorities. He actually worked as a courier for British forces in Galway, which put him in danger. This is the curious thing about him. Everywhere he ends up, he ends up a trait.

at this point he's pro-British but he's a traitor for the Irish in which he lives and he would obviously later become a traitor to the British so it's something very obviously very innate in him about wanting to be a traitor I wonder if he ever got confused as to which he was at any point where am I wait a second where am I he sounds like fucking hard work yeah if you ever hung out with someone who's contrary all the time and you're like I actually can't handle this ultimate contrarian I need a different job no yeah constantly playing devil's advocate exhausting company

the sort of person you get stuck with on a stag do yeah yeah yeah who's like a mate of the stag the one minute from school yeah how am I sat next to him on the Eurista yeah I'll put you in a room with Lord Hawhor hope that's all right

on the first floor floor is the key for the door door that's enough anyway keep going so yeah so William Joyce served as a courier for British forces in Galway in Ireland, which put him in immense danger. The IRA planned to kidnap and execute him as a collaborator.

The British army got wind of this and quietly got him out of the country and relocated him to Worcestershire. He never returned to Ireland, and later his parents were to leave too, settling in London. So now, William Joyce finds himself in London during the 1920s, and be a contrarian, who's a nightmare on a stag do, he obviously gets. straight involved with right-wing politics at the time. So this is a real political hot pot that he got, like, storm that he walks into. He opposed the Labour movement and he feared communism. He joined the British fascistee, later the British fascists, a far right group inspired

by Mussolini, and Joyce acted as a street organiser and violent enforcer at political meetings. When I was reading that, when I read that hit the biography last year, these 1930s, these beer hall political debates that are always into end in utter violence. And it's about who's the most brutish. Often means you have the platform. It's just such a crazy political time. Might is right.

That's the thing. It's really difficult one I find with our modern eyes and imaginations to really understand what the 1930s were like politically. It's these gatherings that end in violence and street organisation is just so far beyond my understanding. People were very political.

So you turn up at these events to hear people speak. And then they'd end up, yeah, in scrapping and stuff. Well, here's the mad thing about Lord Hawhor. So he's back when he's William Joyce, he's in London, the 1920s, he goes to one political rally in Lambeth, and it erupts into violence. And William Joyce is attacked and slashed across the face, leaving a permanent scar. So if you've seen pictures of Lord Horhor, he's got this slash across him. his face. Joyce blamed Jewish communist for this, but his attacker was almost certainly an Irish

nationalist and a woman. So that is why Lord Hawhor had that big slash across his face. A lot of face slashing as well in the 1920s and 30s. Glad that's gone away. I can say it, tougher time to be alive, I think really. I think we can probably say that's a fair appraisal, isn't it really? Yeah, I think that's fair. Twix the wars. By the 1930s, when Oswald Moes, Roosley, formed the British Union of Fascists. Joyce rose quickly through the ranks as a fierce speaker and propagandist. In 1934, he became the party's Director of Propaganda and Deputy Leader. That job of Director of Propaganda, that's really died out.

You don't see many people popping up on LinkedIn with that one anymore. Well, they've just got different names now. Yes, Ellis. Thank you. Spin Doctors. William Joyce was instrumental. Director of communication, is another word, maybe. Influencer? Yeah, or Instagram influencer.

By the Gripzilla, if you want to have a bigger, juicy forearms. William Joyce was instrumental in shifting the BUF from its earlier Italian-style corporatism to a Nazi-influenced anti-Semitic movement. He added National Socialists to the organisation's official name. his speech has pushed what we now recognise as a make Britain great again agenda his message was that Britain was weakened by internal division that foreigners were to blame immigrants were to be removed British jobs for British workers which meant white and native born he ended one notable speech in 1934 with the English are a great

people but they are lacking a leader the implication was clear William Joyce was that leader wow I mean there's certain parallels for today aren't there unfortunately Oh, just a few, just a few. Yeah. When war was declared in September 1939, Joyce was already wanted by the British government as a potential collaborator. Before he could be arrested, where does he flee to? Of course, Nazi Germany.

Why would you? Come on, mate. What have you done with your life when that's the best option? Yeah. When you're scanning your options, you're like, yeah, that's where I'm going to end up. You've made the wrong choices. I mean, at that point, at that point, you might think, well, you know, he is a Nazi and he may well think, well, think, well, they're going to win the war.

Yes. Maybe you'd think that. Yeah. And you actually want them to win the war. That's the thing I can't get my head drum, but yeah. Yeah. You probably thought, yeah, it's going to be great. Yeah.

So he flees to Germany. He arrives just in time to be hired by the propaganda ministry. And then, like, within weeks, he is on German radio. So his first broadcast is the 6th of September 1939. and then just a couple of weeks later he coins his catchphrase Germany calling and he was now broadcasting to the nation he had once lived in as an enemy voice so his tone as you heard earlier sneering mocking tried to convince listeners that Britain was doomed to lose and that resistance was pointless and this is the thing

it didn't really demoralize the British public he became a kind of figure of hatred of dark joke a symbol of truth yeah people tuned in to kind of ridicule him this is what I don't understand I think if you know anything about the British your psyche. I think a sneering voice going, give up, you're going to lose. It's not going to work, is it? No. I mean, you've heard, you've heard like that in football, the analogy is opposition managers going, cutting out headlines from newspaper going, have you seen what the other lot are saying about you? It's that, isn't it? It just makes you want to win. Did he break it up with call-ins and competitions as well? Was it all these sort of. It was talk sport. And he was,

he was sponsored by Beth Fred. Did he cut to the travel on the Orta Barn occasionally? What was going on? Was it just all about Britain's going to lose that war? You've not have the occasional light bit, haven't you? A Germanic connection or whatever. Yeah, we're doing a text topic. What do you have on toast? Is it spaghetti hoops or beans here on Lord Ho-ho FM? Or a big sausage. Our phone in today is, what are you doing today? Oh dear. So Nazi Germany collapses in 1945. What? Yes, I know. Joyce had His attempts to escape to Denmark, but he was captured by a British soldier

who shot him in the bum while arresting him. I mean, at the time, even now, one of the most hated British citizens, well, as well, it was a debatable word, he's British citizens, but one of the most hated British figures ever, I'd say. So Joyce was returned to London and... It's not dignified.

Oh, not good, yeah, yeah. He's returned to London. He's charged with high treason. Now, I hesitated then when I described it as a British citizen because, as you will remember from earlier, I explained that he was born in America. And he only obtained... To Irish parents.

Yes. He only obtained a British passport because he had lied to obtain it. So could he technically commit high treason against a country he wasn't legally a citizen of? Crane, could he be tried? Well, as you started this by saying, do you want to hear about the last person to be hung for high treason? It's like minority report

I'm sticking all the bits together all whizzing around my head and I'm going to go with yes I've linked those two facts and yes Correct you're on the same side as the court So because he had used a British passport He obviously had to stand for his trial Because he had used

May the court be seated? No No I'm all right actually Because Joyce had used a British passport to claim British protection while working for the enemy. The court decided that yes, he could be tried for high treason. So William Joyce was hanged at Wandsworth Prison on the 3rd of January, 1946. As I said, to this day, he remains the last person executed for high treason in Britain.

His body stayed in an unmarked grave until 1976. But a bit of a plot twist. His daughter successfully petitioned to have him re-buried in Galway, the very island he had once opposed. So that's where the body of William Joyce is now in Galway, Ireland, even though he once worked against them. Mad. Joyce's story isn't really about one man. It's about how fascism spreads, how propaganda works, and how an identity can be twisted into an ideology,

and how her voice on the radio, familiar, confident, seemingly authoritative, could become a weapon. And it's also crucially about how a man can get shot in the bum. Yeah. If they make the wrong decisions in life, you might get shot in the weapon. There's a book about him and there's lots of documentaries about Lord O'Haw. And I'd love to know more about his childhood. What happened? There must be something big.

Well, maybe when you're on the stag to do with him, rooming with him. You can see if a find a way to crowbar read a few questions. He was someone who's to crop up quite a lot when I was a kid. Yeah. It's a name I've heard, but I didn't know what it related to. Well, the sad thing is, well, you know, if we were in a war now, there'd be all that misinformation and propaganda, but it would be on social media

and it'd be from bot farms and stuff. Yes. Can you imagine Lord Hawthor's Instagram? Imagine the people he would follow. Imagine the content he's reposting. I think a lot of people are following it in quite an ironic way as well, so he's getting quite a few followers. Yeah, yeah.

I think it's big numbers, but most people are just finding it quite funny. Lord Hawa underscore content. You know, the mad thing is, It's 80 years since Lord Hohor was hanged for high treason, but it's still a byword for being a traitor, isn't it? Yeah, absolutely. If you're reaching for an example of a traitor,

he's one of the first that springs a mind. So that's the end of part one. That's whetted your appetite for more traitors. We'll be back very shortly with part two. Bye! Oh, what a time is now on Patreon. You can get main feed episodes before everyone else, add free, plus access to our full archive of bonus content, two bonus episodes, Every month, early access to live show tickets and access to the O-Watertime group chat.

Plus, if you become an O-Water-Time All-Tamer, myself, Tom and Ellis will riff on your name to postulate where else in history you might have popped up. For all your options, you can go to patreon.com forward slash oh-water time.