Oh What A Time... - #163 Dynasties (Part 2)

Episode Date: February 25, 2026

This is Part 2! For Part 1, check the feed!This week we’re looking at some of the most famous families that history has to offer. We’ve got the House of Cromwell for you, plus the Astors and the incredible story of the Spencer family and their slow centuries-long rise to power.Elsewhere, we’re talking about the demise of Antiques Roadshow now Hugh Scully has effectively been replaced by Chat GPT. If you’ve got anything to add on this or anything else, you know what to do: [e-mail] from now on Part 1 is released on Monday and Part 2 on Wednesday - but if you want more Oh What A Time and both parts at once, you should sign up for our Patreon! On there you’ll now find:•The full archive of bonus episodes•Brand new bonus episodes each month•OWAT subscriber group chats•Loads of extra perks for supporters of the show•PLUS ad-free episodes earlier than everyone elseJoin us at 👉 patreon.com/ohwhatatimeAnd as a special thank you for joining, use the code CUSTARD for 25% off your first month.You can also follow us on: X (formerly Twitter) at @ohwhatatimepodAnd Instagram at @ohwhatatimepodAaannnd if you like it, why not drop us a review in your podcast app of choice?Thank you to Dan Evans for the artwork (idrawforfood.co.uk).Chris, Elis and Tom x Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Oh Water Time is now on Patreon. You can get main feed episodes before everyone else, add free, plus access to our full archive of bonus content, two bonus episodes every month, early access to live show tickets, and access to the Oh Watertime Group chat. Plus if you become an O Watertime All-Timer, myself, Tom and Ellis will riff on your name to postulate

where else in history you might have popped up. For all your options, you can go to patreon.com forward slash O Watertime. Hello and welcome to Oh Water Time. This is Dynasties. This is part two. Let's get on with the show. So just before we get into Dynasties, we do have the O-Water Time patron

where you get two bonus episodes every month. And this recent episode we released as a bonus episode was exclusively on the biggest sporting upsets that history has to offer. Would you like to hear a little bit, boys? Yes. Yes, please.

I want to take you back now. To the 13th of August, 1919 at Saratoga, where we're going to watch one of the most famous American horses in all of history. Manor War, a towering chestnut cult. It arrived on the scene like a force of nature. He was bigger, stronger, faster than anything horse racing fans had ever seen before. He was winning races at ludicrous margins, often under a tight rain. Basically, every race he was in, he just battered.

He was on steroids. He was dumping. Let's not be here on the bush. The odds of Man o' War winning this race are 20 to 1 on. Wow. So that's as close to a near certainty as you can get. Apparently bookmakers even refused to take bets against Manor at all. But there is one horse lining up in opposition.

And gentlemen, his name is Upset. Now... Oh! Love it. Upset was lightly regarded, inexperienced, unfanced, unfanced, Un-agly. The contemporary accounts suggest the odds were 100 to 1 that this horse could beat Man of War.

He was wearing work shoes. The race starts, a man-of-war displays a habit for which he would later become famous. He's restless at the start. The barrier goes up, and he breaks slowly, losing several lengths immediately. Arrigant. And his jockey, Johnny Loftus,

is like struggling to correct and catch him up. But upset does what no one. He breaks cleanly and then takes the lead and then keeps going. Man of War charges late, but he just can't catch him up. And upset wins the race by a length. And what's interesting is contemporary accounts suggest that the crowd didn't erupt. Everyone just froze. Wow.

They were like, this must be a mistake. Man of War would never lose a race again. He has one of the most complete and dominant records in all of sporting history for a race. horse, and many think of him as the greatest racehorse who ever live, which is why this defeat too upset became so famous. And so linguists to this day discuss whether this term to create a sporting upset originated entirely from this race. That's amazing. I didn't know that. There is no doubt that the upset cemented the phrase in sporting culture. That has got four glasses of wine at a dinner party. Conversation lagging, written all over it. I'm absolutely getting that out.

It's great, isn't it? But you'll get it slightly wrong. And then he was, no, was it the horse? Was it, is it a horse? So there we go. That was a little snippet of sporting upsets, a recent bonus episode. If you want to get that full episode, you can go to patreon.com forward slash, oh, what a time. Right. Are you ready to learn about the Aster family and my connection? to them. Oh yes please. You have a connection? Yeah. Wow. Big pals. Why do you not live in a bigger house? You will find out.

You've got a nice house. Love your house. It's a nice house where I don't think any of the Astas would want to live in. You've sent them emails. Were there having none of it? Even the ones that have been dead for 200 years. They would not want to be reanimated in East London. Now, few families have risen as fast or stretched their influence as far as the Aster's, a dynasty whose story runs from the back streets of 18th century Europe to the highest levels of American and British politics. I would say it's one of the most famous names in all of history, especially modern history.

And it actually begins with Johann Jacob Aster, who was born in 1763 in Waldorf, who's a small town in what is now southern Germany. He was the son of a butcher, not aristocracy, not privilege, and like many young men of his generation, he looked west for the opportunities that would change his life. Before that leap, however, Astor spent several formative years in London between 1779 and 1783, living with his uncle, George Astor,

who ran a piano-making business. Oh, wow. And it was here that Johann Jacob became John Jacob, anglicised the name, and anglicise his outlook and ambition as well. Funny how these big dynasties seem to be changing their names to fit in a bit more. But I suppose it's all the sort of branding, isn't it? That's a lovely job, isn't it?

A piano maker. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That must be so satisfying because you're making something that then creates art. When it's put out into the world, it's going to be enjoyed and it's going to continue to create music. It's just a one satisfying thing that must be. It's just a net positive, isn't it? Yeah, exactly. That's such a good point.

But imagine, if you were at a dinner party and you meet someone who makes pianos for a living, When you immediately think this is the most interesting person I've ever met. Or they were like, yeah, so I was just got the white coos and then the black cue. It's always the same. The pattern actually is white, then black, then white, then white, then white, then black, then white, black, white, then black, white, black, white, then it's two whites in a row. Then it's sort of middle C. You've got to make sure that's in the middle. And yeah, it's about 88 keys, I think, so.

And then I'd go, God, is that the time I need to relieve the babysitter? Nice meeting you. I've got two questions if I meet you a piano maker. First one is, generally,

is it noisy when you're making a piano? Like, are you constantly plinking the keys as you're putting it together? If I was living above a piano maker, I'd be like, oh, this is that constant plinking.

You'd rather be living above a piano maker than below them, from what I know, about 1930's silent films. Right. Because it's non-stop piano's falling on head. Yes, yes. Second question.

Have you ever get your head stuck in that bit at the top where the flap comes down? That's because there must be a bit when you're working on the innards and the thing comes down and lands on your head. End of questions. Back to the Aster. So Aster emigrated to the United States in 1783. He was just 20 years old and he arrived in a country that's still reeling from the War of Independence

and his original plan was modest. His idea was, I'm just going to act as a New York agent for my uncle's piano business. And for a short while, that's exactly what he did. He set up his own piano making first. But then he quickly realized that the real money was elsewhere. And as I mentioned in part one, Aster quickly saw that the fur trade, specifically beaver pelts, was one of the most lucrative businesses in North America.

I think less of a net positive when you go from pianos to pelts. Yeah, they are opposite ends of the interesting and okay spectrum, isn't it? But you've seen the Revenant, because Revenant is all about beaver pelts, and they've got all these outposts, like the whole industry of going around searching for, animal pelts, which is enormous... I think I was so scarred by the key scene in the Revenant where he's ripped to pieces by a bear, but I sort of forgot everything else that happened in that movie.

It was such sort of marked three minutes. The rest has sort of faded away, really, in my memory. Yeah. So Astor gets into beaver pelts, and he starts drawing on networks that ran from Montreal to New York, and he basically builds a supply chain that funneled Canadian furs into American and European markets. So by 1800, Aster had amassed a 14,000,

a fortune of around $250,000, which in the year 1800 is equivalent to hundreds and hundreds of millions of dollars today. And he wasn't even 40. He was one of the richest men in this young republic. And he's nowhere near finished. So, Astor was ruthless. I quit. At that point, I quit. I've killed enough beavers.

I'm 40. That first big beaver pelt deal is game over. So when I was 40, I'd... Two young kids. I'm out of the game. South of France. Oh, God, yeah. Nice glass of wine on an evening.

I do, I do. I'd get a tennis coach. Yeah, exactly. And I'd be one of old people. You made enough money that you don't have to, on a daily basis, hear the screams of beavers as they meet their maker. Yeah, you've got to ask, you've got to question as more tips, haven't you?

God, I'd love coming to beavers, really. The money's secondary to me. I'm starting to think that you like. like killing beavers. It's quite a pleasant. It's not about the money for you, is it? Exactly, yeah. Oh God, no, it's never been about the money.

I love killing beavers. Astha is now incredibly rich, one of the richest people in the world, but he's like, I'm going to expand operations. So he added T, Sandalwood, and then controversially, he adds opium to his trading portfolio. He basically becomes the world's biggest ever drug deal.

Wow. At first, the opium came from China, part of the same global circuits that would later provoke the opium wars. But when Chinese supply became politically awkward, AST simply switched to Ottoman sources, selling opium into European markets, particularly into London. So this isn't unusual behaviour for global traders of the period, but it was extraordinarily profitable.

So Aster's Fur Empire pushed westward as well, towards the Pacific, aided by the backing of President Thomas Jefferson, whose vision of continental expansion aligned neatly with Aster's commercial interests. As you can tell, he is now incredibly wealthy. By the time of his death in 1848, John Jacob Astor was worth around $30 million.

That's equivalent to roughly $1.1 billion in modern terms. Give it up, me. Spend some time with your family. Go on the piss. He controlled wealth equivalent to 1% of all the money circulating in the American economy. That's insane. I know. What a fact. From a piano making business.

From like making pianos in New York. Mad. Amazing. So Aster understood something crucial, however. Trade makes fortunes, but land. That's what makes dynasty. So he poured his wealth into New York real estate. Buying land in what was then the city's unfashionable north, correctly predicting the city's expansion into a global metropolis.

And this decision locked the Aster's into the physical and political fabric of New York. the family inherently would never be outsiders again. So Astor's son William Astor inherited not just all this money, but a clear understanding of how power reproduces itself. His daughter, Laura Astor, was married into the Delano family, which was another elite American trading dynasty locked deeply into global commerce. But once again, that family, the Delano's, dealt with opium. So through this marriage, the Astas became linked to the Roosevelt's as well.

Laura's brother-in-law, Warren Delano, was the grand. grandfather of Franklin Delano Roosevelt. And this single marital connection tied together three of the most powerful families in modern American history. The Astas, the Delanas and the Roosevelt's. There is no world where I do not massively fuck this up. If I'm born into the Astor family, that didn't say we'll be offering hours. There's always one member of a dynasty that swaps the fortune for Magic Bee.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Hello. I would have learned nothing from Mum or Dad. Putting all the money into some kind of Bitcoin rival, which crashes one day later. Oh, yes. Yeah, yeah. But what a rush.

The beta max is going to change the world. So anyway, the dynasty at this point, the Aster's, it does something incredible. They decide they're going to move back to Britain. and this is down to William Waldorf, Aster. He was frustrated by his stalled political ambitions in the United States and he was like, well, oh, takeover England. So he goes back to England and he buys several newspapers.

He buys the Powell Gazette and the Observer. Just to be clear, you mean he actually owns the company rather than just like a copy of the Guardian? Just get his head around Britain. What's going on? Yeah, he's at Green Park too, but he's like, oh, I will buy a paper, actually. It's quite a long thing Ellis might have done if he was running the app. family at that point. He established himself as a real political force in Britain, did William Waldorf Astor. So in 1916, he was made a baron. In 1917, amid the pressures of wartime

politics, he was elevated to Viscount Astor by the coalition government led by David Lloyd George. And when he died in 1919, the title passed to his son, Waldorf Astor, who was already a conservative MP. Elevation to the House of Lords forced him to vacate his common seat and triggered a by-election with an extraordinary outcome. Who won the by-election? It was, of course, Waldorf's wife, Nancy Astor. Right. She was born in Virginia in 1879,

and Nancy Asthma became the first woman to sit in the House of Commons. An Irish woman had been elected before her but refused to take her seat. Yeah, Nancy Asthma. I didn't, you know what, I didn't realize until reading this, that you could become a member of the House of Commons if you weren't born in the UK around this time. But she was born in Virginia in 1709. Didn't realize that.

Her parliamentary career lasted until 1945 and a focus on education, child welfare, women's political participation. She funded emergency nurseries during the 1930s and worked closely with organisations such as the Save the Children Fund. However, her reputation would emerge very badly damaged because like many in Britain's elite in the 1930s,

Nancy Asthma was deeply anti-communist and that fear blinded her to the true nature of Nazism. So she became associated with the Clifton set, a loose group of politicians, journalists, and diplomats who believed Hitler's Germany could stabilize Europe and act as a bulwalk against Soviet communism. And interestingly enough, a lot of German entrepreneurs and wealthy dynasties

thought the same way. They thought, well, Hitler's preferable to a Soviet takeover and all our riches becoming effectively redundant. So among the Clifton sets, as well was Joseph P. Kennedy, later US ambassador to Britain and father of John F. Kennedy and Robert F. Kennedy.

A man openly modelling his own family on the ambitions of the Aster's. Anti-Semitism and appeasement run through these circles. Lady Aster herself held strong anti-Catholic views, yet found common cause with the regime she profoundly misunderstood.

And they were not alone. David Lloyd George actually met Hitler in 1936. Famously said he's a born leader. Yeah. And of course, history wasn't very kind on those judgments. But the Astridan dynasty survives the day into the present day. The title remains the wealth endures, but not without tragedy. And this is where we meet my connection to the Astor family.

Oh. John Jacob Astor Ister the 4th at the time he was the richest man in the world. But he died in 1912. How did he die? How did he die in 1912? Yeah. I'll give you a clue. He was on a boat.

What was that? That's not with a Titanic. No, he went down with the Titanic. Did he? Now, who booked his ticket? That would be one of his private secretaries, a man called Alfred Watson, who is the great, great uncle of my wife. Wow. And Alfred Watson actually went out to America a week ahead of John Jacob Astor to get everything set up.

So he went on the head on the RMS Mauritaine. to set up John Jacob Astor's move back to the States. So he went ahead and then found out that John Jacob Astor died on the Titanic. He's actually pictured, if you watch the film, he actually gets dressed up, I believe, ready for the Titanic to sink in his finest wares. They did actually recover his body from John Jacob Astor from the shipwreck of the Titanic. You would have assumed that someone that wealthy would have got onto one of the boats. I mean, there was a real high-er-rifice.

choice at the beginning of how people were, whether they were given space on these lifeboats, you'd assume someone that wildly wealthy would have... I'd have just been bunging everyone 50 quid, saying, come on, mate. Squeeze up. But I think there's a real, you know, there's a real pride in a state of being, dying well, I think, was a part of his decision, you know, not going down, kind of begging to be saved. Oh, I'll always beg. I'd beg, hey, there's a different generation.

I beg all the time. So more on the life of Alfred Watson. So after John Jacob died, Alfred Watson, which my wife's great, great uncle, then got a job still within the Astor family and worked for John Jacob Astor's son. But he felt, Alfred Watson felt like the son had demoted him. And so kind of slowly lost his mind and actually tried to shoot the son. Wow. And then failed and was put into an asylum where he died in North America. There you go.

So that's my personal via marriage connection to the Astor family. I can't believe you've got a connection to the Astor family. Yeah, pretty tight. So you are related to someone who bought a ticket on a boat with their stunk, led to the death of one of the, yeah. I probably wouldn't contact the Astas about that, Chris. Yeah, remarkable. So apart from the beaver deaths,

the opiate sales and the Nazi sympathising, just be quite a sort of smooth run for that going to stick. Good guy. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Good bunch. So I'm going to wrap up today's show on dynasties. We've said dynasty a few times, but I think it's dynasty. I'm using them interchangeably. Glad you brought it up.

Listeners, whichever you prefer, you take. I'm going to tell you about a dynasty that really basically achieved it all. If this was a battle, you could argue that only one family can really say they won. So much so they've had multiple surnames to choose from Churchill, Spencer, Soames, so on. Now, you know who I'm talking about here. It's a dynasty that include Diana, Princess of Wales, Winston Churchill, the Dukes of Marlborough, plural. Queen Anne's favourite, Sarah Churchill, and many more besides. It's a family that for hundreds of years has been at the top of British politics and society.

The earliest Spencer's of notes, okay, they emerge in the 15th century. They steadily gained wealth and status over the next century or so, with two key branches of the family emerging. These two branches are the Spencer Churchill's, which leads to Winston Churchill, and the Spencers of all thought, which leads to Princess Diana and the present Prince of Wales. Imagine being in a family with that level of success. Are you finding that unbelievably pressurising as the offspring?

What are you thinking? I mean, I'm not criticising Diana, but I always just think it was mad that the press around the wedding to Charles, once they met, you know, they got married to 1981, was that he was marrying this commoner. I couldn't agree more. I was having this conversation yesterday with friends about this. As I was reading up on this, there's this idea that she was just a normal everyday person.

Well, that she worked in a nursery. That was the sort of thing. Exactly. Whereas it's actually a lineage that dates back to the 15th century. I know. Yeah. I know. Yeah.

I know. Yeah. It's so true. Do you think you'd find that pressurizing? If you're part of that lineage, how do you think you'd sort of deal with that as a young person trying to make your way in the world? I mean, obviously, it gives huge advantage of. But do you think you'd also have a huge advantage. And also it changes your expectations.

Yeah. So what you think is possible is so different to a normal person. But then obviously maybe brings with it a weight of living up to those expectations. And that is when I would turn to drugs. I was chatting. Do you remember the old editor of Loaded, James Brown? Oh yeah. He says that he grew up opposite a Leeds United player.

Yeah. And he said that one thing made him realize anything was possible. Oh, really? I really can relate to that. Like, you made him realise that these are just ordinary people who do extraordinary things, but you could do that too. Yeah, yeah. This guy's just a guy.

There were lots of top rugby players just around Camarvan when I was a kid. And that made you realise that you were not built to play rugby. Well, yeah, absolutely. But I think if you are good at rugby, I think you think, okay, well, I can make it because he did. Like, the Welsh captain said a lot to my mum in Tesco yesterday. Absolutely. So it feels like something that is in your... your world, I think. So of the numerous ancestors, perhaps the most illustrious, was the first

Duke of Marlborough. He's a man called John Churchill, who made his name on the battlefield, defeating the armies of King Louis the 14th. He personally benefited from a close relationship with King James II. So all these relationships that really, you know, powerful families, knowing powerful families have such an impact on the stories of these dynasties. This relationship was made even closer, the relationship between himself and King James II, by the fact that John Churchill's sister Arabella was a long-term mistress of the king, which begun when the king was in fact the Duke of York.

So there's a long history of the Duke of York being an absolute wrong end, basically, as it is today, as it was back then. And the complicated entanglements, they do not end there. John and Arabella's father, who's a much earlier Winston Churchill, was related by marriage to the Duke of Buckingham, who was notorious as the bedfellow of King James I.

and the influence of the Churchill family on the Stuarts is not limited to the reign of James II either. It's just amazing how much of this is so much power and closeness to other people throughout the centuries. In fact, the Duke of Marlborough was one of those who conspired to affect the glorious revolution of 1688 and ensured the ascendance of William III and Queen Mary the 2nd, while Sarah Churchill, who is the Duchess of Marlborough, cultivated a close relationship with the future Queen Anne becoming her agent and confident. Now, that's real power. It is real power.

Like, I reckon I can probably get you Swansea tickets. If I pay full price. I do know people at the club. Okay, yeah, yeah. So, you know, if in a way end is sold out, maybe sort of wrecks him away, there'll be a big one, a lot of interest in that. Yeah, I can probably get you one.

I can probably get this. Get you one? That's where that's where the power ends. Do you want a ticket with bad sight lines? Then I can probably get you that. Yeah, yeah. That's where the power ends, really. But as an indication of what they could get, of their wealth,

nothing is clearer than the spectacular Blenham Palace, which is not far from Oxford. It's built in the early decade of the 18th century and is given as a gift to John Churchill from Queen Anne to commemorate his victory at the 1704 Battle of Blenham. Have you been there? Have you been to Blenham Palace? No.

I've been next door. And I didn't really... I don't know why I was there. You've been there. It sounds like you were borrowing a tin of paint. No. The other thing I know about Blenheim Palace is don't they have a solid gold toilet in Blenham Palace?

Well, I have some facts which are as amazing as that. First of all, as I say, this is a gift. Okay, how's this for a gift? It's a house which has over 200 rooms, over 1,000 windows. I think this is just too big. Isn't that too... If someone gave that to me as a gift,

I think I appreciate that. but it's too big a house. I don't know what to do with this. If you shouted at your kids that dinner was ready or that it was bath time and they chose not to respond, you'd never find them. I've got a genuine question.

There's 200 rooms. How many of those rooms are you not using? Yeah, I think this. I think you're not using 186 of them, genuinely. Like, it's not possible for a human to need 200 rooms. You've got a sitting room, a kitchen. What do you need these other ones for? I wouldn't have to sort up my snoring by going to the doctor anymore.

Just on the solid gold toilet by Blenheim Palace, they did have a solid gold toilet. But it was stolen in March 2025. And the thieves stole five men, smashed their way into the palace and ripped out the 4.8 million pound solid gold toilet. And it's never been found. Wow. There we go. That's astonishing. That must be so heavy.

What an obvious thing to be? It's the idea of shuffling out with a solid gold toilet for of you carrying it. It doesn't feel like it's a smooth getaway. Hard to sell. Where did you get this, mate? I made it. It grows to be one of the largest houses in Britain. Here's some fun facts about it.

It's the only building in England rather than royal buildings to be lucky enough to own the title of palace. Isn't that interesting? The only building in England rather than royal buildings. It's still owned today by the Duke of Marlborough, who technically paid. rent to the monarch annually on August the 13th each year. So the ground is sort of owned by the crown, whatever. It's one of those sort of things. Do you want to guess what the rent is on this property once a year? It's either going to be vast or it'll be like a medieval price that hasn't changed. It'll either be like 11 quid or millions. He has to present a replica French flag

commemorating the Battle of Blenheim. That's what he has to give. So he has to present a tiny flag every year and then he's given a 200 bedroom house to live in. But that's like, dressing the kids up for World Book Day. I would fuck that up. Where's the flag? Izzy, where's the flag? So during the Second World War, it was the home of MI5. A great society event is held there in 1939

just before the outbreak of the war, bringing together everyone from John F. Kennedy to Ian Fleming. So lots of things have happened there. Today, the palace is a hugely popular tourist destination. And that's in part because of the fact that one of the most famous Brits ever was born there in November 1874. Do you know who this is? Winston Churchill. Winston Churchill, exactly. His father, Randolph Churchill, was the third son of the seventh Duke of Marlborough and had been elected that year as a local member of Parliament. In due course, Randolph Churchill, as I say, is Winston's dad, would serve in the cabinet as Secretary of India and later the Chancellor of the Exchequer, although ill health and his sort of irascible personality meant that he never made it all the way to the chop job of Prime Minister. Winston Churchill enters the Parliament first in October 1900 as the

Conservative MP for Oldham. He's just 25 years old. It's staggering, isn't it? He's really young. Sensing, especially when you consider how old he was by the time he made it to Prime Minister, how long he's career in politics was. Sensing which way the political winds were blowing, a few years later, this is 1904, Churchill jumped ship to the Liberal Party, which was on the cusp of securing an overwhelming majority in the 1906 general election. And this is a decision which puts him in line for government. And he steadily works his way up. the ranks towards the cabinet. In 1908, he becomes president of the Board of Trade. He enters the cabinet at age 33. He's the youngest cabinet minister since 1866. And then just two years later, he was at the Home Office dealing with matters such as the Tonipandi riots, the women's suffrage campaign. And then in 2011, this is an incredible job title. He's moved to

the Admiralty to become the first sea lord. A post he held until his resignation in 1915, following the disaster at Gallipoli. The first sea lord. Isn't that a great title? What do you do? I'm a sea lord. Like Neptune. It's not his only cool job title, by the way.

For many people, Gli would have been the end of his political career. Yeah, yeah. But he had such a sort of dynasty behind him. Churchill was one of the few who could come back. Yeah. And one of the few who had a choice, basically. This is another important thing about these families. it allows you to make huge mistakes or at least things that would have knocked your careers off the rails otherwise.

If you have that weight, that power behind you, you can survive it. So he comes back and in 1917 with David Lloyd George in office as Prime Minister, he's back in Cabinet as, this is another great job title, as I say, the Minister of Munitions. It's up there with Sea Lord. Sea Lord, which you're going for, do you reckon, Scalor or Minister of Munitions, which you think has more... Sea Lord is more mysterious. It is, yeah, yeah. Part of you would think that that person was unemployed if they told me they was a sea lord.

You're right. You're right. What do you really do? You're not, you're just not going to tell me. You're going to keep saying sea lord. Okay, fine. Yeah, sounds a bit vague. At least I know what I'd have to do with munitions. After that, he was Secretary of State for War, then for colonies. And when Stanley Baldwin came to power in 1924, Churchill was appointed Chancellor of the Exchequer and firmly positioned himself in the Tory camp. Do you know what age? This just blew my mind. I didn't realize it. is this. What age Churchill finally made it to Prime Minister? He's old, isn't it?

Yes. It's 25, basically, when his political career kicks off properly. 60? 65. Yeah. He enters Downey Street, his Prime Minister, 16 years after this age 65. He'd leave again in 1945, age 70. And of course, he had a second term. 67. From October 1951 to 55 when he was almost 81 years old. That's when he left. 81. Amazing.

Do you know where he was MP for Tom? Where was that? MP for Wonstid. Really? Where I live, yeah. There you go. There you go. Only William Gladstone, who finally relinquished power in 1894, had been older, and he was a remarkable 84 years old when he was Prime Minister.

And as we come to the end of his story, okay, you might assume that laying claim to the Prime Minister who won the Second World War would be the pinnacle of the Spencer Churchill dynasty, but it's not quite. It was a marriage between Diana and Prince Charles in 1981 and the birth of their eldest son, present Prince of Wales, Prince William, which secured the ultimate goal of any British dynasty, which is... The throne. The throne, exactly, because when Prince William succeeds in the throne,

whatever that might be, the long game played by the Spencer family, beginning in the 15th century. You're so right, Al, by the way, what he was saying there about Diana, this idea that she was... Yeah, she used to work in, in a nursery, didn't she?

So she had like a real job. But I'd argue she didn't have to. But yeah. She would be fine if she hadn't done that. So as I said... I've never thought about that. This is the Spencer Churchill family claiming the throne. What a historic moment.

And it's a story that, as I say, that begins in the 15th century and it will end in victory in the 21st for there will be a Spencer crown king of England. It's amazing story. And Les can have major medical breakthroughs any time now. Prince Charles will, or King Charles I third may live forever. This is a good point, at which point we will re-record this podcast at a later date. I mean, she would have called, had he

had their lives overlapped. Well, they must have done. She'd have called him Uncle Winston. Yeah. Yes. Because he died in 1966. When would she have been born? She would have been alive then. Did Princess Diana ever meet? Uncle Winston. Yeah, they must have done.

She was born on the 1st of July 1961, so there's a five-year window of opportunity. She's got five years to meet Uncle Winston. That's amazing. That's Matt. She would have, surely. That's incredible. Do you reckon you ever took them out?

You know, if it's had like a fun day out with Uncle Winston, yeah. What's a Pizza Express? What are you doing with them today? We will take them to the beaches. That's all right. The Spencer Churchill dynasty. Pretty amazing, really. If you think 15th century, free house.

is prime minister and a potential king. Not bad run, really. I'll be rooting for them. I'll be thinking of them when Prince William becomes king. That's a big moment. And they did none of it. No beavers were harmed in the telling of that story. Good onest dynasty.

Exactly, exactly. Which you think you'd most easily fit into? Well, Scull, it would be for you. It's obviously the Aster's because you've got that family all link. Yeah, the Aster's. They're my crew. Well, Cromwell, got the Welsh link The Cromwell's, yeah

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