Oh What A Time... - #170 Female Leaders and how Boudica Torched London! (Part 1)

Episode Date: March 29, 2026

This week we have three stories of incredible female leaders from throughout history: Queen Boudica and how she took on the Romans, trailblazer author Christine de Pizan and lastly, the terrifying story of 1700s pirate Shi Yang!Plus, Chris’ milkman has become the first milkman to be a freeman of the city of London. Has your milkman done anything as impressive? Please let us know: [e-mail] from now on Part 1 is released on Monday and Part 2 on Wednesday - but if you want more Oh What A Time and both parts at once, you should sign up for our Patreon! On there you’ll now find:•The full archive of bonus episodes•Brand new bonus episodes each month•OWAT subscriber group chats•Loads of extra perks for supporters of the show•PLUS ad-free episodes earlier than everyone elseJoin us at 👉 patreon.com/ohwhatatimeAnd as a special thank you for joining, use the code CUSTARD for 25% off your first month.You can also follow us on: X (formerly Twitter) at @ohwhatatimepodAnd Instagram at @ohwhatatimepodAaannnd if you like it, why not drop us a review in your podcast app of choice?Thank you to Dan Evans for the artwork (idrawforfood.co.uk).Chris, Elis and Tom x Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Oh, What a Time is now on Patreon. You can get main feed episodes before everyone else. Add free. Plus access to our full archive of bonus content, two bonus episodes every month, early access to live show tickets and access to the O Watertime Group chat. Plus, if you become an O Watertime All-Timer, myself, Tom and Ellis, will riff on your name to postulate where else in history you might have popped up. For all your options, you can go to patreon.com forward slash O Watertime.

And welcome to Oh, what a time. It's a history podcast and something quite historic happened this moment. My wife specifically engaged our local milkman, Steve, in conversation. And Steve, my milkman

has become the first milkman. Threat to my marriage because he's so handsome. The first milkman to become a freeman of the city of London. Right. No way. Yes. Incredible. So how has this happened? You should explain what that means, I think, possibly for overseas listeners.

Well, I've googled it. I've Googled it. And when I say explain that for overseas listeners, I really mean, can you explain that for me? What do you know about being a Freeman of the City of London? I know that your milkman is one. And that's about it. There's one thing I know that famously you get to do if you're a Freeman of the City of London. Do you get a big key? Is it different? No.

You get to... Don't you get to drive pigs and stuff over London Bridge and Tower Bridge and that kind of thing? You're allowed to drive sheep. So there's historical perks that are obsolete, which include... And once again, just another thing for clarity, when you say drive sheep, you don't mean like in the back of your... No, no, no, no. You are able to ruin traffic in... London because of a historical

Perth. Just in case anyone was imagining three sheep with their seatbelts on in the back of a Volvo. Can I imagine how annoying it would be? Oh my goodness me, yeah. If you're like, sorry mate, I'm going to be 10 minutes. The Google map is showing red. Why, what's going on?

There's been an accident. Sort of a freeman of the city of London is driving his sheep over tower bridge. He's exercising, his ancient rights. Yeah. I mean, I think that is the big perk. the perks are, you get to take a declaration, sign the Freeman's book, you get a ceremonial certificate, you get access to the Guild of Freeman, which hosts dinners, receptions

in historic locations and an annual banquet in the Guildhall. You can also progress to become livery men. I didn't realize there's like stages of this. Yeah. But you can also join the City Livery Club and the City Livery Yacht Club, which sounds good. But the biggest perk, obviously, being able to drive your sheep over London Bridge. And you got all episodes out of three and a week early as well. That's the big thing. So, can I, I have a question, is a crucial question,

and this is no sight on your Milkman. Why has he suddenly become a Freeman of London? What has he done? Is he particularly good at his round? He doesn't clink the bottles? What's happening? He'll be in the Guild of Milken, or something, wouldn't he?

Do you think? I don't have this. Well, I went to the Lord Mayor's show because my daughter's, she does guides, and she was selected to represent the British guiding movement.

Right. And you just get the guild of Scriveners and various guilds and things. They'll all be in this parade and, you know,

like the British Army will be there and the sort of the REF and all that kind of stuff. It's an awful lot of pageantry. West Ham United were there with a big coach playing,

I'm forever blowing bubbles on a loop and blowing bubbles out into the crowd and people blowing kisses. Loved it. late in audit were there spurs weren't there Arsle weren't there, Millwall weren't there West Ham were fucking there, mate

Yeah exactly Well into the Lord Mayor's show Historically it's interesting how today Obviously if you're transporting animals It's in horse truck or whatever It would be a large truck where you'd fill it Full of Livestock, whatever There are these weird sort of historical precedence

Like isn't there a thing that they used to tar the feet of geese Do you know about this? Go on So they could walk them long distances So obviously if you ever had to move livestock back in the day, you'd literally just have to walk it. You'd have to do a parade of your animals. Well, that's what drovers did.

Exactly, yeah. And you see like the drover's arms pub and stuff and the drovers in. Exactly. But if you're coming up with a fact about driving livestock, this feels like I know what a shame of corrections corner. Written all over it. Are you doubting me? Yeah, of course.

Okay. I've known you for 20 years. Of course I'm doubting you. Oh, well, Ellis, Ellis, are your apologies ready? Okay. I'd like you at this point to choose what sort of softening word you're going to say to me in about 12 seconds time. Historically, Drovers dipped geese's feet into hot tar and then use sand create protective boots for long journeys to market. Ellis James, over to you.

Yeah, like a stopped clock. Wow, that's crazy. What hot tar? Exactly. That can't be good. And then they would walk them. So this practice protected their feet from the rough 100 mile walk from areas like Norfolk to London. That's a big old job.

Walking a gaggle of geese 100 miles to London. Imagine doing it with cats. You would never be able to dip a cat's paw in hot tar in a million years. No. Hard enough getting them in a bar. The closest equivalent we have to that now is when you see dog walkers who have about 12 different dogs. Do you ever see those walking around your local area? Yeah, yeah.

That feels like too much for my brain to deal with. I was about to bring up ancient bylaws that I was aware of in London. And can you tell me whether or not you think this is legal? So I've always heard that it is legal for a taxi driver to urinate on the back wheel of their own taxi. in London. Yes, I have heard that. I've heard that. Is it legal?

Yes or no. Yes, I'd go with. Well, I'll go with No, then. Ellis, you are right. It's a popular, persistent, urban myth that taxi drivers can exploit a loophole where they wee on the back wheel of their taxi. Yes, not true.

Historically, though, Chris, it was legal for pregnant women to urinate in the hat of a policeman. Yes, I heard that. January was true. If you were caught short when you're out and about, you could technically stop a copper and say, do you mind if I use that as a latrine

and you could urinate in it? Not if you were like a hammered bloke on a night out. It had to be a pregnant woman who was caught short. I'd like to think that they just binned that. Or at least chuck the liquid out before putting it back on again. Picture the scene. Tom's with his pregnant wife. She needs a wee.

She grabs the policeman's hat. She wheeze in it. This is why we need Darrell, and this is why we need to stop riffing. The belief that pregnant women of illegal to urinate in a policeman's helmet is a myth. Oh no! There is no UK law allowing this

and public urination even when pregnant can still be considered a public order offence or illegal under local bylaws, often resulting in fines. So why does my wife consistently do it? What's annoying about that, Elle, is if I'd kept Stum, I would still be riding high.

off my geese fact, which was correct. We've got to stick to Daryl's research. Well, there's six myths and realities of British law. It's illegal to die in Parliament. How could that be? How could it be illegal to die somewhere? What's the punishment? That would be such a fun episode.

Laws from the past. Things that are myths and they're real, where we find out what they are and there we discuss whether we think they're actually hard, cold fact. And then Darrell can tell us for sure. Well, there you go. Talking of cold hard fact, we've actually got a fantastic historical fact that's been sent in by a listener. So should we kick off with that little bit of correspondence?

Let's do it. So, you sent us some correspondence, have you? Well, let's take a look at you then. The email I've chosen today is from Gretchen Harwell. What a fantastic name that is. Well done, Gretchen. Civil War Deaths, that's a fun title for an email. Hello, gentlemen, I'm writing about your recent utopias episode, part two, where you discuss the population decline caused by civil war.

I think I know why it was so large compared to other war deaths, just to quickly update people who might not have heard that. The stat that I read out was that the deaths in the British Civil War were much higher than in World War in terms of percentage of population. It was astonishing. Yeah, it really was, isn't it? Now, this is what Gretchen says. I think I know why it's so large compared to other war deaths because the same is true for the American Civil War which as you said in the episode

I was forced to study every year of my American education it's because unlike an international war if citizens are fighting against citizens only citizens die thus the death toll all comes from one place in a war like World War I since much of the world was involved the death toll and population decline

was more proportionate to each country's involvement Anyway, I love the podcast and especially the bonus episodes. Oh, thank you very much, Gretchen. Keep it coming, best Gretchen. Isn't that interesting? So that may explain why there is that percentile difference that you wouldn't expect. Excellent point. An obvious point.

It really is. Absolutely. See, our emails, they're not always lips to teat and stuff like that and who they'd snog if they went back in the one-day time machine. Sometimes they're just pointing out basic logic. Well done, Gretchen. Which is helpful. Absolutely.

If any of you have any basic logic You want to chuck our way As much as he can If boss Exactly we'll take it all Strange laws Strange laws as well We don't need any geese facts

Because I've already covered those All right you horrible look Here's how you can stay in touch with the show You can email us at hello at oh what a time com And you can follow us on Instagram and Twitter at Oh What a Time pod.

Now clear off. Okay, so one of the bonuses you get with being a top tier patron, O Whatter Time, All-Timer, is that we will look at your name and we will figure out using our historical perspective, where you may have existed in a previous life before. And lads, this week we've got Tessa Les Lavich. That sounds like someone who got to the final of Wimbledon. in about 1994.

And she had an absolutely massive sort of. Like a record-breaking save. You just could not return it. If the first serve went in, it was just pointless playing the point. But if it didn't, she never won. Yeah.

But she had a really good day in the 1994 final and she won in record time. There's possibly an unfortunate clip of where she got angry one game, hit a ball, hit a ball girl straight in the face. Incredible face and she had to apologize.

Head comes off. You know, it's the first decapitation at Wimbledon. But like an absolutely incredible, incredible bow words. She won Wimbledon, but of course it should have been more had her career not been marred by injury.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, because you can't hit a ball that hard. Can't hit that serve. You just go, yeah. By 24, she was, it was all over. Elbows were ruined. But my God. And the footage of her as a teenage sort of prodigy. It's extraordinary.

Once popped a ball, I think would be an amazing thing. The US Open once popped a ball. The first time someone's ever managed to pop a ball with their serve. And hit a bird. And the bird explodes. The footage is disgusting. And Centacourt still clapped, didn't they? When that bird exploded.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean the bird's family clapped. Yeah. Normally, I'd say we have to go on to a second option. We normally talk out a couple of options. I think that is literally it, to be honest. Yeah, she's also a great pundit. Yeah, yeah, she's done really well.

Yeah, yeah. But she doesn't go into coaching because you just can't coach that stuff. You've either got it or you haven't. She married a shipping magnate, didn't she? She's actually like the third richest person in the world now. Elle, you're either seven foot two or you aren't. That's what it is. That was the fundamental thing.

You can't teach being seven foot two. There's no way of drilling that into something. one. So there you go. What was the name again? Tessa Leslavich. Tessa Laslavic. Congratulations on your fiery tennis career. Yeah, and you've won a slam. You've won a grand slam. It doesn't get any better. People will always remember Emeraldiq. She won the US up and people will

always remember Tesla Laslavich. There you go. There you go. If you'd like your name postulated upon, you can join our patron and here's how. Hello again, you horrible lot. Enjoying the show. Well, why not? show the love by becoming a Patreon supported today. For a mere handful of fatherings, you can get ad-free shows,

two bonus subscriber episodes each month, access to all the past bonus eps, first dibs on live tickets, and even help decide what subjects the boys cover next. Your support makes everything possible, so sign up today at patreon.com. slash oh what's a time or oh what's a time.com. What are you waiting for?

Stop dawdling. Right, before we get on to the history, this topic was sent to us by a listener. It was suggested by a listener. I know what a time full timer. So I'm going to read out the email now. Hello, lads. Great podcast.

Topic suggestion for, oh, what a crime, if I may. I'm a relatively new listener, so apologies if she's already been covered. but Zhang Yi-Sao, a sex worker, went on to become one of the most successful pirates of all time. Also somewhat topical as the first ever fully AI-generated film to get a cinema release come out recently,

which is about her life. Thanks for setting me up with some amusing historical anecdotes I can impress my friends with. All the best. Rachel's from Rachel Pack. So, yeah, I will be discussing Zheng Yi-Sau or Xi Yang, as she was otherwise known. Honestly, a female leader I hadn't heard of,

and it's an astonishing story, one of Europe's first. In fact, I'm going to say it, Europe's first professional woman writer, Christine de Pizan. Amazing story. Okay, I'm discussing an amazing Chinese pirate. Wow. That's great. This also sounds great.

And I, am afraid, I'm going a bit more Route 1. This is someone you will have heard of. I'm going to take you back nearly 2,000 years to talk to you about the fierce flame-haired warrior, Queen Budica. You guys are familiar with Budika, obviously. I don't know enough, so I'm really looking forward to this section. Well, Chris, you've come to the right place. Now, of all the opponents faced by the Romans in their conquest and pacification of Britain in the first century AD, CE, none stand out more than the Isini Queen Budica or Buda sea as the Romans called her.

So, Elle, you nodded, you are familiar with her a bit, are you? Well, a little bit. I remember reading about her or watching a TV program about her when I was very little, and she was referred to as Budacia. And then by the time I was a teenager, she was referred to as Budica. Yeah. So I'm assuming that...

So I'm assuming that the... So I'm assuming that the sort of the historiography or the sort of research around it has changed. Yes. So the Romans referred to a Budcea. Now, generally, Budica is how she'd referred to. She was, by all accounts,

an imposing figure. The Roman historian Cassius Dio described her was very tall with long red or alban hair hanging down to her hips, which is also how I imagine Tessa Leslavich as well, by the way, the our powerful woman player. Around her neck, she wore a large golden torque, which is like a Celtic neck ring symbolising status. Immediately that makes me feel claustrophobic,

the idea of like a huge neck ring. As you're going into battle as well, this thing just freaks me out. You want to be life. You want to be light in your feet and nimble. You don't you? You don't above a big neck ring? Exactly. Was it Deonté Wilder who went to the Tyson Fury fight, wearing a big, like, alien head

and said it was so heavy by the time we got to the ring. He was knackered, and that's why he lost. His legs were tied. Genuinely, he said that's one of the major reasons he lost. Wasn't there, like, also a top, like a chain-mail top? It was just like really heavy clothes. Just wear a dressing gown, for God's sake. Boxes have been doing it for years.

It's not as in core. Wear one of those rain ponchos you get when you go on a log flu. Exactly. Something nice and light, something floating. A lot of helium balloons so you float to the ring. Just go in wearing trunks and then put your shorts on in the ring. Well, Budica, she wore this heavy stuff. She also wore a heavy, bright tunic, a large broach that fastened it.

And her voice is described as powerful but harsh. I'm not sure. I'm not delighted by that harsh bit. If I'm her and I'm rereading this stuff, I'm going, yeah, I like the way you're describing my power, but the harsh voice. It sounds like she would sort of sound a bit like this. I am the leader of it. Can you write it down for us?

Would that be all right? Just write it down and pass it around. So despite these descriptions, though, not much is known about her life, not least because there are no native sources lying around and the ones we do have are crucially written by our enemies, the Romans. These are Roman tales off from years afterwards

and they're hardly impartial. The Romans, okay, they first... Well, it's a bit like, if you were trying to work up my biography by reading some of my reviews. Yeah. That's such a good point. Yeah. There would be a couple of facts.

You know, yeah. Yeah, yeah. He was a Welsh comic, but not funny at all, according to the sources. Exactly. It depends which source text you go to, L. Because if you go to the broad, cheat newspapers, the Guardian, the Telegraph, you know, all these things, the times, then you're awful. But if you go to angry microwave.com or. funny ha ha.org. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. I was a three-star comedian, yeah.

The summation of her life, as I say, is very, very biased. However, there are things we know about her. We know that the Romans first took an interest in Budica because of the Iceni revolt of 6061 ADCE, in which she was the principal British figure. For those who don't know, the Icini were one of the many native tribes of ancient Britain, who were based primarily in what is now Norfolk, their territory also spilled out into Suffolk and Cambridge here as well, though. And at the time that she was planning her rebellion against the Romans, it's thought that she lived in a place called Thetford, which fact fans, this is going to blow your mind,

is where I recently got the train back to London after a week at Centre Park. And this is going to blow your mind even further, Elle. I was going back to London to write satirical jokes of TV and isn't satire, if anything, about battling back. against those in power. So in many ways, am I not like Budica? Thetford. Yeah.

You can't do up the top button on your shirt, so it was a bit like who with that clasp. Well, I bravely went on the sort of high wire, three climbing stuff there as well, so I'm also brave. I'm a short-haired brunette, Budica, essentially. The famous Isini revolt was the result of a surge of anti-imperial sentiment,

which focused on the east of England, or at least what was to become England, and for the country at that point, it was known as the province of Britannia. And interestingly, it was not a generalised country-wide revolt. It was kind of an uprising against Roman rule in a regionally specific area. It was a reflection of local tribal attitudes to the empire and also to the sort of gradual erosion of their independence as Roman civilisation took hold.

And it wasn't their first revolt either. The Issemi were already well-known troublemakers. I love that description. Sometimes a genuine description from our historian Darrell. I absolutely love that, troublemakers. They'd risen up against the Roman rule in 47 AD, CE a few years back, partly keen to preserve their independence and partly out of a rethink of capitulating to Emperor Claudius' troops four years earlier.

And that earlier attempt had ended in defeat for the Isini and the rise to power of a new, more kind of amenable, chilled out king called Prasotagas, who was the husband of Budica. So this is how Budica is starting to rise up and come to power. His reign lasts until his death in 6061 ADCE. It's a peaceful time during which the kingdom accommodates itself to Roman rule, sees itself as kind of part of the empire and all that offered. However, this all changed dramatically, and it leads quickly to revolt.

I always find this amazing, these small-ish tribes, that decision to go, I'm going to fight back against an empire, the bravery, even the mere thought process of that is remarkable, isn't it? I think wherever you put me in history, I'm not going to be one of those guys who fights back against the... Like, the odds, whenever they do that, invariably they're crushed through history. Yeah, absolutely. And the Roman Empire, I don't know if you know much about them,

they were quite successful and good at fighting. From what I know from historical sources, mainly gladiators starring Russell Crowe, They're very good at fighting. V. Kane. What about you, Elle? Are you part of the sort of dissenting minority who's fighting back? No, I'd be reading a book on negotiation.

And then I'd hold the book up and I'd say, there's an awful lot in this actually. I think that this would be quite a useful guidebook for us to maybe... Just try and talk to them, you know? Just see what they want. Let's meet them halfway. This is Elle's role in Negoti- He's the Negotiator. He's the Negotiator. in medieval warfare.

We'll send L to the front, go speak to those northern hordes, north of the border in Scotland. We send him up there, see if we can get to some sort of treaty. And then about 20 minutes later, his horse comes back. And there's L riding on it. Oh, his head's gone. Yeah. Yeah.

I couldn't agree more. And then they all turn around with their kiltz and show us their bums. And we go, well, that's a waste of time. And then they start kicking a football and someone puts a big cross in. But there's something coming off the ball. It's blood. And the ball is my head. And then I turned to the soldiers and say, but he did love football,

so in a way it's what he would have wanted. Nice little chuckle. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. He'd love to be volleyed into the back of the neck. In off the stanchion. That's how he'd want to go. Yeah. So, Elle, I'm afraid, this is not the route that Budica took, okay?

It all kicks off very quickly. First, in this sort of run towards revolt, Prasagatus tries to pull a fast one on the Romans by naming his daughters as co-ares with the emperor. This is something the Romans don't like, as it was a departure from normal practice for client kings. Normally, territory was handed over to the Romans at death, and it also meant that Budica would rule as regent

because Prasagatas' daughters were not yet of the age to rule, okay? So she's now in a position of power. And what happens next... So cut a deal. Yeah, well, what happens next depends upon which Roman historian you believe. Tacitus, claims. Boudicca and her daughters were brutally intact and beaten by the Romans. They were so livid by this attempt to kind of co-share.

Although that may possibly be to do with the fact that Tacitus' general attitude towards Nero, who's the emperor of the day, was not one of warmth. He despised him. He regarded Nero as excessively cruel, which I think is probably a fair take on Nero. That shines. Yeah, from what I've read. That feels about right. And the coffee is not good enough.

feels like a treat. You don't know what it is. What is this high end? Is it low end? Yeah, where does Nero stand on the high street? Never quite sure. I've never figured it out. Is it premium?

That's a really good point. That's an interesting choice of Emperor for them to name their brand after, isn't it? One of the most bloodthirsty and nuts Roman emperors of all time. Is this somewhere at the top of Café Nero who claims to be related to Nero? or something. Why would you choose Nero, is what I'm asking.

Yeah. Mind you, do you know what actually? Cafe Caligula has a ring to it. Caesar Sundance. Just total excess, just all cakes and... Well, Tacitus would have much preferred Cafe Collegular because he hated Nero, as I say. He saw him as a living threat to the cohesion of the empire.

And that may explain why his retelling of the story is that Budica's daughters were so brutally attacked as was Budica herself. An alternative version, however, comes from Cassius Dio, who suggests instead of financial motive for the revolt, namely the repayment of various loans from the Romans by the Aisini, which were given as incentives to tribal leaders by Nero's predecessors, Claudius, nearly 20 years earlier.

The Icini, they said... Café Niro is Italian for black coffee. Okay, there you go. And now it makes sense. Ellis has just done his own correction corner on the fly. Not named after the Roman Emperor. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Okay, good. So the management style does not replicate that of Emperor Nero. Absolute disregard for people below you. So the Isini, they regarded this loan as paid off. The Romans did not. That's a fundamental issue often, has been throughout time. But in this version, blame for sparking the uprising falls on the local Roman official, Katas dekianus, who overstep the mark and pushed the Iceny into anger.

Dio gives Budica the words of a true leader at this point saying, how much better to have been slain and to have perished than to go about with the tax on our heads? Once again, Elle, I'm one of the people going, no, I'd rather pay the tax, I think, then the whole slain thing. Tell me more about the tax. Yeah. 70%? Yeah, it's fine. It's just paid the tax. Do you know what? If I was you, I'd put that up as well. Doesn't bother me, actually. It's cheap of anything to be alive. I love the idea of these sort of fierce military speeches when you're in the front as going,

this does not chime with me at all. I would rather lose my head than I were to 15% of my wages. No, no. Excuse me. I actually think that's sort of in a modern democracy, I mean, tax is, I don't know, it's the best way of pay for public services. Is it not?

Services we all use? No, no. Are you to be the argument? I'll go bye. Fair enough. But whatever account you take, things are about to get bloody. So Budica calls upon her people to remember life before the Romans, before occupation, before submission to a foreign power, and tells them to take up arms in the name of freedom. She then persuade neighbouring tribes in Essex and surrounding areas to unite and rise up against the Romans altogether. Even though, interestingly, these sort of neighbouring tribes in that area, they're all historically.

rivals, but she manages it and she leads an army reportedly of 120,000 men, not bad, to East Anglia, where they defeat a tiny Roman army of just a few hundred men. I don't think there needs to be a battle at that point. I think if you're only a few hundred Roman soldiers initially and you're seeing 120,000 people coming, I'm very quickly claiming I'm not a Roman soldier and just saying, oh no, what are you talking about? No, no, there's no Roman. Aren't you run a local Airbnb in the area, say? Exactly. Yeah, yeah. I'm a toga tailor. So to prove themselves. So to prove themselves, the Isini and their allies then go on and capture the Roman capital, Camelodonum, which is modern Colchester, then Lundinium, and all before Roman reinforcements could arrive from Anglesey.

And the Isini as well, they're a fearsome lot, just brief description of the way they fight. some very brave, skilled Isini would battle completely naked, say for a little bit of jewelry or some paints. But this is an interesting point, because I was thinking the other day about the Napoleonic armies fight with big feathers on their caps. And when you look at those kind of the Wellington era, Napoleon era armies, they are, you know, they're peacocks.

Whereas is it not more terrifying to be the Aisini and be completely naked? Yes. Because isn't that the ultimate terrifying thing? Well, I think there's an additional scary point to that. By the way, just to give you the historical fact on this, they would paint themselves blue, and also the ones that were naked were known to be the most skilled warriors.

So if someone's coming at you naked, waving a sword, you know this guy is unbelievably good at killing as well. I think it's weather dependent. Can they do it on a cold Tuesday night in stone? I think anything above 20 degrees, and I'm a bit more interested below that. But below five degrees, I would say, listen, it's going to really affect my confidence

if I've got to fight this guy naked. Although I would say, Elle, the counter argument, that cold weather means that nature is naturally protecting you. It's tucking everything up to a plate where it's less likely to get locked off. Nature's armour. Exactly. It is. It's nature's armour, Chris. Exactly. Another brief point on the way they fought They would inspire fear by riding war chariots into battle

Before jumping down to fight on foot This is my favourite bit While the driver would wait nearby for a quick escape Like a getaway driver Sort of honking his horn After 20 minutes going We've got to get out of it But eventually the Romans

As you predicted skull They gathered men And things did not work out well Things all came to a faithful head In 61C at the Battle of Worme at the Battle of Wattling Street, which is about 25 miles west of modern Birmingham, Budica arrives with a huge army, but they're routed by the heavily outnumbered Romans under the command of a brilliant governor, Paulinus. This guy is like a military genius.

Compressed into a bowl-shaped valley, Budica's advancing soldiers, which is such a much bigger army than the Romans, find themselves hemmed in, unable to use their weapons before becoming sitting targets for their enemy. Roman javelins arraigned down on them from a onto their ranks, inflicting terrible casualties, horrendous. Paul and he then sees the momentum. He gets his army to take out their short swords. The Romans advance down the hill in a wedge formation, carving through their foe, inflicting terrible damage.

A cavalry charge, it comes in at the last to sort of kind of take out any last Romani resistance. Roman sources, get this but a differential. And admittedly, this is Roman, so there's a slight exaggeration, but they do feel that it would have been a huge gulf in numbers. Roman sources list it as 80,000 Britain's dead and just 400 Romans. That is a drobbing. That really is a drubbing.

Budica herself also dies shortly afterwards. Some say by her own poison. The manager, the manager's got to hold his hands up there and say, I got this one wrong. Yeah, absolutely. I thought it was a bit more valiant than that. I didn't realize they got absolutely battered. I'm afraid it was an absolute battering.

Although before that, they'd taken two cities. They'd made their point. To wrap up this story. They made their point. 80,000 of them dead in a ditch. Or at least we made our point. That'd be your final words, your last word. At least I made my point.

Now, how to wrap up this story. Let that be a lesson to you. Exactly. Made my point sting for eternity. Now, to wrap up this story, the story itself, it's certainly compelling. It's one of the great legends of British history. But go back far enough and few people had even heard of Budica, which is quite interesting, I think. She was not part of the island's annals.

So what had happened? Well, the Tudors happened. Her story gained special power in the 16th century at a time when classical literature was being recirculated amongst intellectuals and readers. Playwright saw the potential of this character, this red-haired warrior queen who stood up to continental tyranny. Can you see any parallels here by any chance? Elizabeth I first. There you go. The Spanish Armada had all the contemporary character of the Roman Empire, as did the Roman Catholic Church, which threatened this Protestant country called England

and so on. And Budica's place in English, then British mythology was therefore secured by the first Elizabethan age. Interesting, isn't it? The name has drifted away, but because of Elizabeth, it came back into focus, which is why in many ways Budica lives on now more of us as a symbol than as a truth, a reminder of Britain's stubborn independence. A final thing to end, where is she buried? Do you know where she's buried? Oh, wow. She's buried somewhere, I don't know.

Well, no one knows. However, here's a fun fact. For a long time, she was thought to have been buried at a place which now lies between Platform 9 and 10 at King's Cost Station in London. There you go. Really? That's now been disproven. Oh, it's been disproven.

But for a long time, people thought she was buried. They think there might be in World War II invention. and decide maybe galvanising her spirit again at a point when we needed British heroes. But for a long time, people leave. She might be buried with the platform 9 and 10 at Kings Cross. I don't think you want to be summoning the spirit of Boudicca, given the absolute hammering she took at the end.

Yeah, good point. Yeah. Although, as a final... It's like summoning the spirit of England at Euro 92, his name. Or someone at the Winter Olympics, summoning the spirit of Eddie the Eagle. But as a final point, when I got my train from Thetford to London, to write satire and fight back, Elle, what platform did I get off at? That's right. Platform 9 or 10 at King's Cross.

Once again, I'm a modern-day Budica. Are you Budica? I am. Wow. Thank you. Okay, that's the end of part one of incredible female leaders. If you want part two, it is available right now on the O-Woddica. Watertime Patreon, you can go to patreon.com forward slash oh what a time. Get it there or we'll see you on

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