Oh What A Time... - #171 First Ladies of the United States and has there already been a female US President? (Part 1)

Episode Date: April 5, 2026

This week we’re looking at 3x US First Ladies and their extraordinary lives: we have Louisa Adams (1775-1852), the extensively travelled Lou Hoover (1874-1944) and the powerful Edith Wilson (1872-1961).And this week we’re asking: has there ever been an easier job than the policeman with a clipboard ensuring people cross a job properly? If you’ve got anything for us, do send it in: [e-mail] from now on Part 1 is released on Monday and Part 2 on Wednesday - but if you want more Oh What A Time and both parts at once, you should sign up for our Patreon! On there you’ll now find:•The full archive of bonus episodes•Brand new bonus episodes each month•OWAT subscriber group chats•Loads of extra perks for supporters of the show•PLUS ad-free episodes earlier than everyone elseJoin us at 👉 patreon.com/ohwhatatimeAnd as a special thank you for joining, use the code CUSTARD for 25% off your first month.You can also follow us on: X (formerly Twitter) at @ohwhatatimepodAnd Instagram at @ohwhatatimepodAaannnd if you like it, why not drop us a review in your podcast app of choice?Thank you to Dan Evans for the artwork (idrawforfood.co.uk).Chris, Elis and Tom x Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Oh, Whatter Time is now on Patreon. You can get main feed episodes before everyone else. Add free. Plus access to our full archive of bonus content, two bonus episodes every month, early access to live show tickets and access to the Oh Watertime Group chat. Plus, if you become an Oh Water Time All-Timer, myself, Tom and Ellis will riff on your name to postulate where else in history you might have popped up. For all your options, you can go to patreon.com forward slash oh water time. Hello and welcome to Oh What a Time

The History Podcast that asked the question Have we finally discovered the world's easiest job Or history's easiest job? Yes, I think I have I noticed it today, I was on my bike And I cycle past a guy It's a bridge where a traffic going up the road Have a precedent over the traffic coming down the road

You've got to give way if you're coming down the road Okay And if you don't do that, you get a fine and there was just a little copper with a camera in his car and a clipboard and he was filming people and I thought that must be that must be the world's easiest job.

Eating donuts, drinking tea. I thought you could have a podcast on or the radio on or music or it. You could be listening to this podcast. And he was just holding up. He wasn't even holding the camera up like they used to with speed guns decades ago

because the camera was wall-mounted on his car. Also, he's probably not going to write anything down because he's had the car is advertised so you know what the car is. So no one is breaking the law. So he's not even booking anyone for it unless they're incredibly lackadaisical

and they're not taking lots of their surroundings. And he was just sitting there. Imagine telling someone in the Industrial Revolution that that would be a job. Yeah. Look, people are worried about AI. taking people's jobs. It does sound like that is a job that should go because of AI.

I couldn't believe it. Barely a job. Unless there's a chance, though, about once a shift, he has to launch into a high-speed chase. He's not in, though. He was in like a Nissan micro. He wasn't even a proper cop car. Well, still, it's even more difficult then.

But there is a chance to give him his defence that once a shift he's having to chase someone They're refusing to pull over and discuss the fact they haven't driven appropriately. Oh, no, no, no, he doesn't pull you over. Oh, he doesn't even do that. He just takes your registration plate. And also, in his shit little Nissan micro, whatever it was, he was a small car. If he did have to give chase, it's like, yeah, I'll give chase.

What can I catch you? I'll give chase up to 600cc. I'll give chase until you go uphill, at which point I will no longer give chase. No, no, he doesn't pull you over. He just takes you. And then you've got a letter to the polls. That's remarkable. What a dream job.

When I was growing up in the 90s, our local park had about four tennis courts, and they're all on concrete. And it was at the, these tennis courts were at the far end of this park, at the very back of the park. So you had to walk like 10 minutes to get there. And at the very back,

these tennis courts in the pre-internet age were controlled by a man who just sat in this little brick-built hut, right at the back end of this field. And if you wanted a tennis court, you couldn't book in advance. You had to turn up on the day. And you'd go, could I have a tennis court?

court at three o'clock. And he would look at this little paper book he had. And he would, he would with a pen, he'd write down three o'clock. And he'd charge you like a pound. That guy was in the hut, my entire childhood. And do you know who that man was, Edith James? Tim Henman. Isn't that incredible?

I thought you'd say, Alan Sugar. That's how he made his Monday. That was all he did. All he did was just sit in that hut all day with the radio on, collecting the odd pound. with the radio one is such a good observation that's exactly what those jobs are and they sit on a stool with the radio one

there's weirdly a little fact from where I grew up I think we've talked about this before there's a very small bridge near where I grew up in Bath which links to basically means you get to cut out a lot of traffic in Bath it's the most profitable

toll bridge in the whole of Europe for its length for the amount of time you spend on it for the amount of profit they make and similarly it's just basically someone sat there listening to TalkSport for 12 hours drinking tea. If they listen to Talk Radio,

they end up with a lot of opinions then, don't they? The old taxi driver conundrum in my experience. That's a very good point. The funny thing about those jobs is they would have existed in like medieval England where you had like a small local, privately owned bridge. Yeah, tallboards and things, yeah. But in the pre-talk sport age, they were just sat there listening to the sounds the forest all day, weren't they? Oh my God, yeah.

And occasionally sort of being forced into a sword fight when someone refuses to pay the toll. So it's quite a peaceful job. Six out of the seven days a week and then you have to put your life on the line. Once a week, it's a fight for the fight to the death.

For the rest of the time. It's quite profitable. A haightly bit or whatever, the coinage was then. No, it was stressful at work today. He was fight of the death day today, but thankfully I won. So I needed to tell the tale. Friday night, I think, is the fighting to the death day, Elle. I think that's where people aren't playing their tolls. Yeah, I got him in the end.

I stabbed him right through the throat with my big sword. But, you know, it was stressful, you know. It's dinner, Eddie. I don't know where I sit with those sort of things. I think I'm a man of many faults. Anyone listen to this show will know that I have many failings. But one thing is I don't get bored at all. And I think that might be because I didn't have a telling him when I was growing up.

I'm quite happy in my own thoughts. Well, you just masturbate, don't you? You're like to make it. Exactly. Absolutely. Zero shame. Shopping centres on the first. The toll booth came with a little hut.

An unlockable door. No, the point is I could contently sit there and just have my own thoughts. So actually those sort of jobs I think I quite enjoy. I'm quite happy. I'm fine with that. Fine with just the mindless, you know, thoughts. The mindless wanking in the medieval forest. Let's not move into it.

Let's not start a new rumor on the podcast. There's no need for that. Literally plucked from nowhere. Well, there was the toll booth era on the Seven Bridge. And they've got rid of them now. But you were paying by cards. You weren't even, they weren't even helping you with your transaction. They were just sitting there until eventually the company owns the Seven Bridge

thought, this is crazy. Is this a false memory? Wasn't there a point where you basically had to lob coined into a bucket? Yes. No, no, yeah. And it would then go down. It would count your coins. But you had to just, like basketball, like a three-point.

shot. Yeah. If you're a bad driver, from your Nissan Micro. Yeah, years ago. Yeah, I remember the coin-lobbing era. You had to get the arc of the shot right in off the room. Very parabola-based whether you were loading to wheels.

It's very embarrassing. One of the things about modern life, if you pull up at the toll brief too far to stretch and pop your card in, you've got to open the door slightly. You always think there's people behind thinking, but this guy's an idiot. Yeah, this can't drive. Has he never toll boothed before?

I'll tell you what I, hate, this is just on this, my great fear is a similar thing, is when you have to walk through, well, there's a few examples of this. One would be when you're taking your children through the gates at the tube, when there's more than one of you, and you tab it that the gates are going to close on as you're going through. Do you ever get that when it's more than more? Maybe you don't have that fear. And the worst one is when you tap like a work pass anywhere and it's glass doors that open briefly and then close after you've gone through. I have this fear of those things. Yes, I don't.

With the tube barriers, if you get that wrong and your child gets caught in the barriers, which happened to me several times, they never forget it. It's a really formative memory. They see it's a real derivion. Your son's now got a really thin head, hasn't he?

They see it's a real dereliction of parental duty. Yeah, my daughter got caught in the barriers. Horrendous and circus about seven years. She's still going on about it. I'm like, come on. You're 11. You've got to be. move on.

Luckily London is a sympathetic to that sort of thing. They're very patient. Oh my God. Whenever I'm in a European city that's got a, you know, an underground subway or metro system, it staggers me how patient people in other cities are.

Absolutely, yeah, yeah. And like, you're the tourist and you don't know where you're going and you're trying to get, you, you don't know if you've got the right ticket. And everyone behind, he was like, don't worry, mate. It's fine. You do that at Lester Square, do you remember,

shower. What the fuck is wrong with you, mate? Well, Paris still uses paper tickets. Unbelieve. Which is insane. Unbelievable. That staggered me when I was in Paris a lot during Euro 2016 10 years ago. And I was there quite recently and

you're like, France, come on. Another reason why Paris is the most overrated city honour by a mile. Get your barriers, sort. France. Come on. Do you know what happened the first time I went on the tube, Elle? Did I tell you about this?

What, in London? Yeah, so this is prior to the oyster card. I'd come to London when I was about 18 or 19 with some friends, and they had paper tickets there. So I bought my paper ticket. Which you can still buy, if you're ever. Yes. And I was so stressed, because I've never been to a big city like that, and I'm quite a nervous person at that point,

that on the journey from Panning to Oxford Circus to deal with the stress, for some reason, I ate my tube ticket. I don't know why Just nibbled it But I kept nibbling And before I knew it I'd eaten the entire thing So I'm 18

We'd get up at Oxford Circus And I can't go through the barriers Because I've eaten my tube ticket So I had to go into one of those little huts And explain to the guy from TFL Seasoft gave me a look of this Can this be true?

Have you really done this? You didn't say I've eaten my ticket. Of course they did because I was so a good little boy. Yeah but this is all part of the nervousness. I didn't want to lie and then it'd be implicated in a crime

so I thought just be honest you've eaten your tube tickets and the guy to be fair to him he let me through partly through a sort of sense of you know this guy's clearly troubled because it's not an excuse he might have worked for TFL for

50 years and he will have never had that excuse before Yeah, that's unbelievable And that's a good thing about an oyster card You can't eat an oyster cart Well, you can And that's why it's better It's just much harder to do

You need a lot of journey Like that French stuntman Who swallowed an aeroplane Well, there you go It's tiny little bits Dear listeners Have you ever travelled On the underground

And whoever have you ever eaten your ticket Am I alone in this? Do let me know Before we crack into the history proper Unbelievable. It's not. My kids are going to love that story. It's amazing, Tom.

Deep cut stories you've got that would come up straight away with most people. Here we are how many years into this podcast. We were just hearing about you eating a travel card for the first time. Yeah, there's many of those. I was about to bring up the story

about when I got stuck in the revolving draw at the BBC for half an hour when you were talking about technology going wrong. But I didn't even bring you, that was horrific. On a hot summer's day. spinning glass door. It's the one in Cardiff? It jammed.

No, it was BBC broadcasting house here. Buy off the circus tube and I was stuck in there for half an hour and they had to send out a team to get me out like a museum exhibit. I was just stuck in there with people looking at me in the baking song. Do you know what you remind me of, anecdotewise? You're like Frank Zappa. There's just hundreds of hours of tapes. You're like, how prolific an idiot is this guy?

Britain's most prolific idiot. Frank's Wattah. It's close around. Not really. So, thank you. I don't think I've ever been compared to Frank Sapper. A man who's lauded one of the greatest musicians of all time. But they're still releasing, you know, unreleased demos and things,

like hours and hours and hours of stuff. You like that. But how do I monetise it, Ellis? When are you doing it on this podcast? Oh, yeah, that's true. That's a very good point. Do join the Patreon. Right.

Enough about me and my never-ending list of failures. This is a history podcast, so let's discuss what we're talking about today. Today's going to be a really interesting one. Would you agree? Yes. Absolutely. Today, the subject is Flotus. Elle, tell us about what this episode is about. Yeah, well, we'll be discussing the Flotus, the First Lady of the United States, the wife of the President. And I'll be discussing Louisa Adams, who was John Quincy Adams, the sixth president's wife.

He served from 1825 to 1829. and yes, she was born in London. Oh, there you go. I'm going to be talking about Lou Hoover, who was Herbert Hoover's wife, and I would argue is far more popular than him. Oh, and I'll be telling you all about Edith Wilson. Now, most people would say there hasn't been a female US president,

but you may change your mind about that when I tell you the story of Edith Wilson. Exciting. But before that, Let's give me some correspondence about one of Britain's leading lights, one of the names that will echo throughout history, Bobby George. The ex-darts player, Bobby George. Our email this week is from Claire.

Email says, episode 152, Bobby George's house. Okay, Chris, remind us what it was called and also why this has been brought up, because you are to, you're to blame. I'm actually excited that we've had emails about this. So on that episode, I think we were discussing George Hall. which is the home that Bobby George built himself. And I was always told it was shaped like a dart board or a dart. But then when I actually looked at it,

I couldn't see how it was shaped like a dartboard or a dart. But that is an urban myth that I've definitely heard for years and years. Well, Claire says, hi guys, big fan here in South Africa. Love that. Thank you, Claire. How exciting. Have listened on repeat to many of the episodes and have always had a good laugh. Love the obvious connection between all of you and appreciate. Listen to this for a comment.

The positive male role models of friendship. Oh, Claire, thank you very much. That means a lot. Yeah, we can inspire young boys to eat their train tickets all over the world. Build houses that are shaped like darts. Are we the opposite to the manosphere? I think we are, yeah. We're balancing out those awful people in Louis Thoree's documentary.

That's good to hear. Right, the main reason I'm writing, though, is not to praise you, but to ask, what were you thinking? That's more in keeping with the sort of emails we get. In episode 152, you spoke about Bobby George. his house in both Ellis and Chris went on about the number of rooms. I love the phrase went on about. He made me laugh. He's got a lot of rooms. 16? Went on about it. 18 rooms. As if this was the most impressive and somewhat unusual part of the setup. Chris went on to share

this. The couple have lived at the quirky mansion which includes a Chinese takeaway, a pub and a bar since they built it in 1995. Claire says what I want to know more about is this. Why does he have a Chinese takeaway in his home? It's such a good point. Why have we not got into this? who uses it? Does he have staff to run it? Is it open to the village or just for him and his family? How much Chinese food does the man eat? So that's a really good question. I don't know how we brushed over that. So let's look into this. Why does he have a Chinese takeaway and how do you think this is working? Any ideas else? I think this is fresh information. I wasn't aware that he had a working Chinese restaurant in his house. According to the quotations of this email, this is something you shared.

Okay. Well, I'd like to imagine it was fully start. and is hemorrhaging him cash. Yeah, and they're just twiddling their thumbs because he doesn't fancy a Chinese and it's just him and his wife. He's like, you know what, I'm going to have a pizza actually. He's like the original Big John. That's a good point.

How often you're using a Chinese takeover if you have it in your house? Well, on the subject of wastage, I'm reading the book called Entitled about the Rise and Fall of the House of York. Izzy, my wife's reading that at the moment as well, and she read it on the train the other day and people were coming up to her on the carriage

saying, I'm reading it, what do you think? Isn't he a fucking wrong? There's a bit in it where Sarah Ferguson, she has a full working staff, obviously. She's got like a kitchen there. And so often she couldn't decide what to eat that the chefs would prepare for her, like three or four meals.

No. Lay them out and she would pick the one she wanted in terms of pure ways. Is that the setup Bobby Georgia's got with Chinese? Yeah. Are they making everything? Have they got everything? Access to everything.

Every night they prepare a full Chinese buffet. We'll just make it all and then you can choose. I've got a strong feeling about Chinese takeaways. So my most calm, contented place is sitting in the waiting room of a Chinese takeaway for the food to be made. I love it. You've eaten the menu. Looking at the massive laminated menu on the wall

and thinking about what I might order in the future, lovely. Maybe there's a fish tank full of a few not particularly happy looking fishes, but I'll look at those and there's some magazines. I just find it so relaxing. Yeah. And the clattering of the wops. I find it just such a calm. We should go out for a Chinese.

I never regret it. Yeah, it's great. I never ever regret it. Absolutely. It's so good. Never had a Chinese that I've regretted. Apart from the one that I found us on Google Maps, remember that? We were discussing this podcast at the very beginning.

And that is the one Chinese takeaway who went to. Oh, yes. That didn't hit the spot. No. However, Elle, Chinese takeaway is only the start of things when it comes to Bobby George's house, as Claire goes on to explain. In addition, he also has his own pub. Here's the questions from Claire. Is this a typical home style pub in the corner with corny public and signs, or is this a full-on walk through the door, sit down while someone draws your pint type of establishment? And if it is

the genuine article again, once again, I have to ask, why? How much did he drink? Who can make sure if it's facilities? Why would you want a pub on your property, especially if it's only for you and your friends. The questions are many and none of them relate to the number of bedrooms. Anyway, just wanted to share some of the thoughts that flashed through my brain at the time. Thanks for making us laugh during these crazy times, Claire. Thank you so much, Claire. Yeah, let's look into that as well.

Mike Bubbins has the best pub in Cardiff is in Mike Bubbins' house. Right. Because he has a pub in his house and he loves the NFL, American football and so all of his mates go around to watch it in

his pub on a Sunday night and they're all called the Sunday night club and the pub is full of sporting memorabilia and he's done out just like he wants it with all the drinks he wants and everyone drinks for free. I think it's the everyone drinks for free bit which makes it automatically the best pub in Cardi.

I think that's the crucial bit. The deco's amazing and he makes a programme called Top Vives where he interviews people involved in rugby about their top five. Love that. Well, they get to choose. But he films it in his pub which is in his house

so he's in his slippers. And all of these legends of the game are coming around. So I don't drink enough to warrant a pub in my house. However, there's a man on this very Zoom L that does. Oh, yeah? Chris Scull, explain yourself. Well, I've got a bar shed. He's got a pub shed.

I've seen what Bubbins has got. My mind is nothing compared to what Bubbins has got. That's how it begins. I've got a little bar shed. It's enough you can fit. It's got four optics in it. I've seen Bubbin's pub. It's got like Green Bay Packers, isn't it?

That's his team. Yeah, yeah. He's covered in memorabilia. I've got one sign, the Jolly Boys Outing, a reference Tony Fools and a Horses. That poster is in my bar shed, which I've got from eBay for five pounds. In memorabilia, terms,

Bubbbins is way out in front. Does it have beer taps, though, your shed? I have considered it. I have considered it. But, yeah, it would have to... I put my bike in it, depressingly. So it's not actually... So currently, just to be clear,

it's a shed with a bottle of vodka stuck a walk and a bike. That's less of a pub more of a cry for help, I think really, Chris. Bubbins is clearly Wales' answer to Bobby George. Oh yeah. I think he'd love that. Absolutely. Very good questions, Claire.

I don't know how we didn't drill down into that properly beforehand. I now, part of me, does want a Chinese takeaway, but not the actual cooking part, just the seating area where I can have, like, listen to the music and just have that feeling, that lovely, that anticipation of waiting for your Chinese takeaway. one of my favorite experiences in life. I know we actually talked about this a few weeks ago, like how great it is going to the tip as a dad. Like that activity, I'd agree with Ukraine,

that sitting in a Chinese restaurant is up there. When you get there, they're like, it's not ready. And in the back of my head, I'm always like, great. I love it. And also, I think a lot of that experience, the anticipation of walking and picking up your food, the rustle of the bag as you're coming back through the cold that's all gone now because of Deliveroo.

It's amazing. You're a ticker away. poet. I wrestle of the bag, he said. It's great. The weight of it in your arm as you're walking back. I just love it. It's so exciting. Also, when you get there just chancing your arm and adding one extra, oh, it's such a wonderful experience. Bring it back. Yeah. I think that's one of the great losses of the modern Deliveroo trend. But, you know, it is what it is. You should be a deliveroo driver. You'd get that multiple times a night.

But I wouldn't get to eat any of it. No. That's the problem. Which is the best of it. Claire, thank you so much for emailing a show. That is a superb email. If anyone else has anything they want to get off their chest, maybe things we've missed in the past. Here's how you do just that. All right, you horrible luck. Here's how you can stay in touch with the show.

You can email us at hello at oh what a time.com. And you can follow us on Instagram and Twitter at oh, what a time. time, Todd. Now clear off. Now, when on the benefits of signing up for our Patreon on the top tier is that we will figure out where in history your name may have been and we've got, I think, the best name yet for this particular feature. This week, our oh what a time, all-timer, is Mr. Art Green.

That's a great name. One word, jazz. He is the best saxophone player to come out of a new. of New York in the last 50 years, but thankfully he was very, very shrewd with his money and so he runs a record label as well and it's made him a multi-millionaire. And he's one of those people

he's got a collection of about two and a half thousand different pairs of sunglasses. They all to me look the same, but apparently they're all different. He's also played on a lot of records. You don't know he's in the background of and he gets a nice cut from a lot of really big. Massively successful record.

You know, Art Green plays a sax on what would it be, Baker Street? He loves music, but he's very shrewd. I love it, can I just stop to say? Crayne was reaching for a jazz reference and all he could land on was Baker Street. No, I was reaching for a song with a sax reference. To be fair, in my defence, Your Honor.

I was trying to choose a popular song which had sax in it. Got a second option of that? Go on, go on, quickly. What do you think of jazz? I love Baker Street. Say no more. You would read it. Last time you went Ronnie Scots, you left furious, didn't you?

Because they didn't play Baker Street once. I was expecting to hear it at the start and at the end of the light, minimum. Claire and I went all the way to New Orleans on holiday about, it's about eight years ago, partly because we'd heard the jazz experience is just incredible there. We fly there. First night we go to the jazz bark.

Cocktails, speak easy vibe. The jazz starts. Like 10 seconds in, I turn to Claire and go, I don't think I like jazz. And she's like, yeah, neither do I. It's that tawny realisation. So I think jazz is a nice idea. But actually, I don't need four hours of that.

My friend Dave is a regular at Ronnie Scots. He's an amazing jazz drummer. And the last time I went there, I realized they did cocktails. So I had the first cocktail on the list. I loved it. So I thought, I'll have number two. I loved that as well.

So I thought, I'll have number three. Then I thought, I'm just going to work my way through the menu. He came to get me the end of the show. He said, do you want to meet the rest of the band? I was like, yeah. I was so fucking hammered. He walked me in,

realized the stay house in and said I think you should go, oh, Bellis. I don't remember, I don't remember meeting any of them. I went to watch him do, I went to watch him do a jazz gig quite recently, and the pianist was one of the people I'd met there. I was like, alright, mate, nice to meet you. He said, we've met. You were at Ronnie Scott. You were sick on my piano.

The drunk as punter I've ever seen in 30 years I've been performing there. So, yeah, I can't, I can't. That said, I do have a kind of blue by Miles Davis on vinyl, and I love that. Oh, there's actually quite a few, basically, to the jazz community, if you're listening, there's lots of jazz I do like. I'm just not really into the avant-garde, improvisational, really weird rhythmical sort of stuff. Maybe I'm not bright enough to deal with it. Do you?

A bit of Ornette Coleman, yeah, yeah. Oh, it's just too complicated for me. Oh, Ornette Coleman, free jazz, yes. No, Baker Street. Baker Street, that's what I want. There you go. No, I listen to Ornette Coleman when I'm doing incredibly boring. things. Oh, do you?

So then it's the, it's a combination of doing something very, very dull and listening to music that's very, very difficult. So he's got this record from 1960 called Free Jazz a Collective Improvisation. God, I mean, even that title. If you listen to the first, if you listen to the, if you listen to the, I now really want to hear, I really want to hear Tom listen to the first. minute. I want to watch him listen to the first minute of it. So it was

yeah, it's an amazing record but try listening to that when you're buying pasta in Sainsbury's. Yeah, like this is a very boring thing to do but my brain is telling me that I should be confused. I tell you I actually have a very definite

reaction to that sort of music. For some reason I find it funny it really makes me laugh. No, I get that. It just feels so all over the place and silly and sort of willfully complicated. I just find it amusing. That's the problem. That's the reason I can't, I just immediately just makes me laugh. And I know I'm aware that it's very skilled musician. I'm absolutely a get that you have to be incredibly skilled musician to do it. But for some

reason, I just, I just always cracks me up. It's like, what? This can't be real, can it? Stay, stay there. I'm going to place some for you now. Oh, yeah, okay. Ellis is getting his double bass out at the moment. He's wheeling the piano into the front room. What is that? that is like when an orchestra is warming up if I went to someone's flat and they put that on I would assume they're about to kill me the thing the thing is with jazz

like it has to be music it has to be it has to sound like something I couldn't do oh yeah that but I think I could do that but you choose not to what is that Ellis when you

So you're doing the washing up and you're listening to that? Yeah, it's one, no, I'm banned from listening to it in the house. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I'm banned from listening to that and the German crout rock band can. So if I was, I would listen to it, maybe if I was walking around a supermarket, my headphones in or if I'm in the car on my own. I'm not allowed to listen to it with the kids and my wife because they find it sort of in. With an earshot of any other human being.

Yeah. Yeah. I've just gone on to the Baker Street Wikipedia page and there's a whole section called saxophone riff, which you'll be glad here, Craig. Wouldn't it be a shame if I know what a time listener added to that? Tom Crane considered this a classic example of jazz. Well, there you go.

Thank you to Art Green, classic jazz from him. If you want your name postulated upon, and if you want bonus episodes, all that good stuff, here's how you can sign up for our patron. Hello again, you horrible lot. Enjoying the show, well, why not show the love by becoming a Patreon supported today? For a mere handful of farthings, you can get ad-free shows, two bonus subscriber episodes each month, access to all the past bonus eps, first dibs on live tickets, and even help decide what subjects the boys cover next.

Your support makes everything possible, so sign up to you. today at patreon.com slash oh what's a time or oh what's a time.com. What are you waiting for? Stop dawdling. So it's time for some proper history. Today's episode is all about the first ladies of America. The wives of the president and their incredible lives. Who are you talking about today, guys. She's a lady. Whoa, whoa, whoa, she's a lady. Talking about

Louis Ardans. Brilliant. I'll close this episode out by talking about Edith Wilson, wife of Woodrow Wilson, and arguably the first US female president, well, you'll decide for yourself later in this episode.

Fascinating. And to kick things off, I'm going to tell you about Lou Hoover. Now, this is the first lady who gained a far better reputation than her husband, although, admittedly, that's slightly easier when your husband is the man who presided over the Wall Street crash, the ensuing economic crisis, and then went on to have shanty towns named after him. That's Herbert Hoover. Now, are you familiar? Yeah, absolutely. Legacy. Completely. Now, are you familiar with Lou Hoover? Because she has an, it's an amazing life, this person, fantastic thing she's achieved. Are you aware of her?

No. No, about her husband. I don't know about Lou. You're aware of, yeah, you're aware of him and his legacy. Yeah. Let's start things off then. Lou Hoover, it's a remarkable person. She achieves incredible things in her life. She's born in 1874 as Lou Henry in Iowa before being raised in California as the daughter of a banker and a schoolteacher. Her childhood is spent mostly in Monterey in California. And from the start, she's passionate and motivated. This disdiscuit. This is spent mostly in Monterey in California. This description of her as a child is like the opposite of what I was like as a teenager. She regurgitated a ticket. And it still worked. She loved athletics and basketball. She edited the school magazine. She developed a real love for science, a love for literature. She pursued further studies in geology.

Is this capturing what you're like as a teenager, L? Is this you in Carmarthen? Okay. Yes. And it continues on. She's got this interest in the earth, which leads her to Stanford University from where she graduated in 1898 as the first woman to take her degree in geology in the university's history. So this is the flavour of this person, like highly motivated, highly intelligent and just a real trend setter, really. What about you, Scarle? Is that what you were like in your youth?

Are you seeing any of yourself in that? Not quite. I was mainly collecting stickers of 90s footballers. I don't think I even heard the word geology until about 2006. Well, she had the Panini album, 1898. But she lacked the Knott's County left backs and never completed it. So at university, she's taught by a man called John Casper Brenner, who was later to serve as a president of Stanford, and he was an expert in Brazilian geology.

And check this out for a CV claim to fame. He was a researcher for Thomas Edison. And he was tasked by Edison for finding suitable elements for the electric light bulb. That's a claim to fame, isn't it? What did you do in your previous job? I was heavily involved in inventing the light bulb. Yeah, it's all a little bit of a letdown after that, isn't it? Yeah, absolutely.

How often are you bringing that up, do you think, at the pub? Every day. You see that light over there? You notice the fact we're all well lit until it's 11pm. I did that. Do you like being able to see you, mates? Do you? Yeah, even though it's dark.

That's funny, that. Yeah, I did that. Oh, how did that work? Yeah, it doesn't look like candelight, is it? You described that very interestingly. You said trying to find the elements to make an electric light bulb. I could scour the earth for a thousand years. And if I didn't know what I was looking for,

I would never come close to figuring out what elements you might need to put a light bulb together. Of course. Even now, when light bulbs have been around for over 100 years, if I wasn't allowed to Google it, I would never find the right there. No chance. But Brenner was not the most important person that Lou. meets at university because it's there that she meets one of his students, Herbert Hoover. So Herbert was studying geology with a view to becoming a mining engineer. He's three years above Lou and he

graduated in 1895 before being offered a job in Australia by a mining company. And with Lou in the midst of her undergraduate studies, the pair decide that the only thing for it is to enter into long-distance relationship corresponding by mail. So he's gone to Australia, she's in America. I don't know how Long-distance sort of letter-writing relationship. Presume. Pre-face-time. How are you finding that? Are you sort of romantic enough to keep that going, do you think?

I was. I had a long-distance relationship where it was based on letter-writing. Really? I was a student because she lived in Norwich. I thought you were going to say, like France. Oh no, no, no, but like, no, no, but it's still hours away from Calvert. So we only used to see each other once a month Yeah

But you lived in, that's in the era of the phone Yeah, I used to call her and text her Okay But that was still expensive So it was a lot of letter writing So how often are you sending a letter? Oh, a couple times a week Couple of times a week

Were you? Yeah, I was young and I was in love What were you writing in these letters? I dread to think Obviously I haven't got the letters anymore Oh, what I'd pay to read those But I, oh, God. I reckon I was probably trying to be funny

but I now dread to imagine. How long were you together? About a year and a half. I suggest a letter to rip in it. Did you actually break up over letter? No. So technically you're still going out. No, that was to my face, Chris. That was the first time they'd actually met

in person. She came into the bar. Sorry, there was something about your handwriting. It suggests you're going to be really handsome. You're right, ugly bastard. Ellison described himself as seven foot two And ripped Really mussely And brave

Well American Australia was only the start of it Okay Things get more complicated Firstly by the outbreak of the Spanish-American war In 1898 For which Lou volunteered her services as a nurse And then to top it off Herbert is offered a job in China

I think at this point I'm thinking This might be I'm not sure this is good It's meant to be What's this guy's problem? That's what I'm thinking of this. Exactly.

But Herbert, while you say what's his problem, his problem was that he was deeply in love with her. He felt they were destined to remain together. And knowing that Lou was soon to graduate, he writes to her and he says simply, will you go with me? And she says, yes, the pair are quickly married in February 1899 in Monterey.

True love? Yeah, they travel. Out of curiosity, do you believe in the concept of true love? I do believe in the concept of true love, yeah. Oh, well, do you mean by the concept of true love? that there's only one person for you. Just love. Okay.

I believe in a thing called love. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Best luck to you, mate. Well, she clearly did because they moved from San Francisco to Shanghai. Wow. From there to a mining district near Tianjin. That is true love to me. And while there, Lou once again starts showing her incredible proactive spirit.

She begins studying Mandarin. She very quickly becomes fluent. the language. Wow. She collects Chinese porcelain, including pieces from the Ming dynasty, becomes an expert in this field. In fact,

get this, in 2012, one single vase from her vase collection she collected at that time was sold for nearly $6 million. That's the quality of pieces she's collecting. And then, when the anti-foreign,

anti-colonial boxer rebellion breaks out in 1900, once again, she volunteers as a nurse. In fact, she became so close to shelling and shooting that at least one, California newspaper declares her dead.

There's even stories of her standing day after day on the barricades armed with a rifle or else a cannon, stories which she later denied as claiming the media of making them up. However, there were photographs of her taken during the uprising, inspecting cannons on the walls, and some argue she was just being modest, and actually she was doing this. Imagine sitting next to her at a dinner party.

You're thinking about this. How boring your stories would be. Yes. Already at this point. Absolutely nothing to compare. Yeah. Australia, China, lived in a mining town, learnt the language,

has bought, as eclectic pottery worth millions of dollars, has fought with a musket in a rebellic, all this stuff. Also, like a dangerous time. If you went to those, like different places now and lived all those different cultures,

like that would be quite edgy now. To do it when she did it. Exactly. And towards the end of 1901, Herbert and Lou at last move back, to London. She's already achieved all these incredible things, but there's still so much more to come. It remains their home until the outbreak of the First World War in 1914. During this time, Herbert makes his fortune as a director of a mining company, while Lou engages in scholarship.

And together they travel the world as Herbert's work takes him to Myanmar, Russia, South Africa, back to Australia. It's not a relaxing life, this is it? But fluent in Mandarin and conversational in Spanish, Italian, French and German. What a... brain. Lou uses her skills in Latin to work on a translation of a 16th century geology slash mining textbook called Georgius Agricola's DiRetalica. And the next sentence, I think, really proves how much brighter our incredible historian Dr. Darrell Lee Worthy is than me, because he's written. Rendering this work into English might not seem like a tremendous achievement. After all, Latin to English translation was commonplace by the 1900s.

Darrell, I have to say to me, it does seem like quite the achievement. That's so funny. I love that. It may not seem like quite the achievement. But Agricola's volume was long thought impossible to translate, and Lou proved everyone wrong. Her work was published in 1912, and it remains a standard translation to this day today. Wow. And with the outbreak of war in 1914, the Hoover's face a dilemma.

Okay, the dilemma is this. Should they return to the United States? Should they then engage in relief work despite American neutrality? Or should they keep their heads down and carry on in business? What do you reckon they chose? Did they go for the complicated relief work option? I'll just sort of stay out of it. It's option number one, isn't it?

I'm afraid it is. They chose relief work and shifted their attention to Belgium. Of course they did. Lou helps to set up the Red Cross Hospital for British soldiers and a maternity hospital for Belgian women, while Herbert was made head of the Commission for Relief, which is a refugee aid agency. Lou would also serve as chair of the Women's American Relief Committee. For these efforts, Lou was awarded the Belgium Medell de la Raine, Elizabeth,

and the Croix de Chelleverre de laudeléé by the King of Belgians in 1919. So all these incredible accolades are pinned to her for her work in relief. It's one of the most remarkable CVs I've ever heard of. I think as an interviewer, my first question would be, are you lying? Yeah. What an impressive person. Absolutely. In the 10 years then, which separate the end of the war in 1918 and Hoover's election as president of the United States in 1928,

Lou is mainly involved in charitable work. She was the vice president of a national amateur athletics federation in the United States, the presidents of the girls' scouts of the USA. Herbert, meanwhile, served in the cabinets of Warren G. Harding and Calvin Cooley. And so we come to the final stage of her life, which is when they enter the White House. And understandably, considering the life she's led and the brain she has and to sort of, you know, her passion for so many things,

she wasn't really relishing the idea, the traditional role of hostess, the traditional role of the First Lady. In fact, she hated it. She openly hated the routine of being First Lady. Pretty much the only thing she did enjoy was the politics and recognise the importance of managing one's message. People often think of FDR as kind of the pioneer of radio broadcasting,

reaching out beyond the media directly to the people. But Lou actually was in on it even earlier, really. She was the first lady to use the radio this way. And in many ways, her greatest legacy of all was this willingness to embrace new technology. And not just radio, but also in film. There's a really interesting side point, which has had a real impact on the way, their family, the Hoovers are perceived.

In the 1920s, okay, she already had a home camera. She experimented with Coda Cullis film to document her stay at the White House as in the 20s, film which sheds real life on how the Hovers were behind closed doors. Because the Hovers have long suffered from the effects of the Great Depression.

They carried the blame, basically, for the economic mess inherited by FDR in 1933. And while FDR has been seen as a hero, Herbert and Lou were blamed. for the detachment, their inability apparently to speak to workers, and even their harsh attitude towards White House staff. However, these home videos that were shot by Lou show quite an opposite story. They show sport-loving hovers, playing games with their staff on the White

House lawn, videos that start to sort of help reshape that impression. So these home videos have had a direct impact on the way they are perceived. Tom, have you heard of a word called propaganda? Yes, but these weren't released as proper. propaganda pieces. These are found home footage. Somehow they still did a number on you. Sadly though, her life ends January 1944

age just 69, a heart attack and a walled off of Astoria in New York in January 1944. Herbert finds her body in her room. Outlived by another 20 years is that Herbert survives another 20 years after she passes, surviving long enough to be offered government roles by

John F. Kennedy. Interestingly though, Hoover had no great desire to be an elder statesman of that sort. Many say, it's interesting to wonder what he might have done had Lou survived, how his life might have been different. Her death possibly forced him into these roles that he didn't really

want to take. One of the most remarkable lies I've ever read about. What a CV? All these things, an impossible number of achievements. Such an adventurous spirit as well. Yeah, absolutely. Because you'd be clever, but if you don't have an adventurous spirit, you'll just end up, you know,

doing nothing, read a books all day. Which actually sounds very nice. But yeah, going to Shanghai and Australian, all that amazing. Yeah, absolutely. Well done. There's Lou Hoover for you. Someone who's nothing like me. All right, that's part one of First Ladies of the United States.

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