Oh What A Time... - #19 Landmarks

Episode Date: November 20, 2023

This week we're scanning the historic horizon to look at wondrous landmarks from down the ages. We'll be travelling to Peru to discuss Machu Picchu, you can expect a visit to the east coast of America to study the Brooklyn Bridge and finally, we're off to north-west London to hear about the creation of the British Empire Exhibition Stadium aka Wembley Stadium. And why not drop us an email on any of the following: Interesting relatives? Prove an interesting fact to someone in 500AD? Historic jobs that are easy? ONE DAY TIME MACHINE? Send us your thoughts by emailing: [e-mail] Aaannnd if you like it, why not drop us a review in your podcast app of choice? Oh and please follow us on Twitter at @ohwhatatimepod And Instagram at @ohwhatatimepod And thank you to Dr Daryl Leeworthy for his help with this week’s research. Thank you to Dan Evans for the artwork (idrawforfood.co.uk). And thank you for listening! We’ll see you next week! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Eligibility and member terms apply. Looking for a collaborator for your career? A strong ally to support your next level success? You will find it at York University School of Continuing Studies, where we offer career programs purpose-built for you. Visit continue.yorku.ca. Hello and welcome to Oh What A Time, the history podcast that tries to decide if the past was absolutely rubbish. I'm Ellis James. I'm Chris Scull. And I'm Tom Crane. And each week on this show we'll be looking at a new historical subject. And today we're going to be discussing landmarks.

Yes, today we have for you Wembley Stadium, Machu Picchu and the Brooklyn Bridge. Very nice. But shall we begin? I started that in an English accent and then halfway through I thought, no, I'm going to try my Brooklyn. I don't think we should... You say, shall we begin? I think we should just focus in on that accent briefly. How are you feeling that went? Do you want to talk me through?

I wish I'd have pulled the handbrake up on it sooner. Right. Well, I like that we're humouring Chris for this because the Brooklyn Bridge is my topic and I'm planning on doing the whole thing. In that voice, it's going to be pretty annoying, yeah. Here's a fact that I heard recently that I haven't checked, but it sounds like it could be true. One of the most famous residents of Brooklyn Is Mario the Plumber Mario, Super Mario

Yes And do you know when you used to fire up the game Mario You would say It's-a me, a Mario Yes So you think he's saying It's-a me, Mario It's-a me in Italian actually

Yeah, that is what he's saying, isn't it? He's actually saying It's-a me, Mario And it's-a me in Japanese means Super So he's saying Super Mario In Japanese But everybody So he's saying Super Mario in Japanese. But everybody thinks he's saying itsumi.

That's amazing, isn't it? I've got that my whole life. Genuinely a good fact. Well done. That is true. That is true. Where did you hear that, Chris? That is a good fact.

I'll give you that. I think I heard it. Just to prove I'm down with the kids, I heard it on TikTok. You're not following the most current TikTok trends if the stuff you're watching is the loading screens for computer games in the early 90s. That's the sort of TikTok that you're into. I love that. Oh, my God. What other sort of 90s TikTok stuff are you into? How hot a Pop-Tart is?

What other things are you finding out on your weird early 90s TikTok searches? God, I love this John Aldridge TikTok channel. That's absolutely brilliant. What goes on backstage at Noel Redmond's house party? I'm desperate to know. Loads on the pick and mix section at Woolworths. This is all the sort of stuff that Chris follows on TikTok. Wow.

So close to being current, Chris. I loved it. So we've got a good episode today. I'm excited. Yes. Interesting subjects. But we've also, as always, I imagine, got a mailbag stuffed full of goodies. Am I right?

Yes. I've got an email in which incredibly provides us with yet another, probably not a formal point, but I would certainly say it's a good idea for a topic. So hi, loving the pod, listen to last week's episode on plots. I'm an English and history teacher from North Wales, and I've always loved teaching the gunpowder plot to students, but through a slightly different lens, one which didn't get as much of a mention in the episode. Can I say one quick thing, by the way, Ellis? How do you feel about the fact that we are teaching the teachers? Where does that put us on the hierarchy, the history hierarchy?

I always knew this moment would come. Do you know what? This is a big one in the eye for Jake Humphrey, who said that his high-performance podcast should be on the national curriculum. I mean, basically what we're hearing from teachers is this already is. This podcast is already on the national curriculum. We are informing the national curriculum.

The national curriculum has turned to us and said, what do we do? With a governing body. We're informing it. And for next year, I said next season yet, because I clearly do too many sports podcasts they'll be coming to us

they'll be like we actually think the history curriculum is a little bit stale what do you suggest and because it'll be the episode we've just done can you do a GCSE in landmarks we want it to be more fun but less academically rigorous

how can you help us i'm imagining by the way el but um you know when we were at school the teacher would wheel in a massive tv on the downtime and put that on now they wheel in a small digital radio oh they wheel they wheel in alexa and they say alexa play your water time the kids just sit and listen kids go mad with excitement and then sit and listen. Absolutely enchanted. OK. The story we all know of November 1605 may well be nothing more than fake news.

The cellars below were owned by Parliament and rented to a known Catholic agitator. The writer of the Montega letter was never proven. The supposed tunnels used to put the powder in place have never been discovered. The authorities had complete monopoly over all the powder in the country and Guido's signed confession is famously a bit sus. All facts point to one thing. A set-up.

What? All this led me to an idea for a show. What hugely famous episodes in history are likely to be completely false? Or what are our biggest misconceptions when it comes to our history? As for Britain's greatest format point, take me back to Hastings 1066 to see if poor old Harold did indeed

get an arrow to the eye and put that possible fake news to bed while we're at it too. Please never stop making this pod. Joe Gilly. Joe Gilly is a suspicious bloke, isn't he? As in, he's not suspicious himself. He has suspicions. Sorry, I was slightly misleading there.

He's not shifty. He's not someone you should watch out for. Carter Spurgeon's like that on our lovely listeners. This is the point in the history lesson where he turns off Alexa and goes, Right, right, get on with your work. Go on, get your pens out. That's fascinating. Can I just say about King Harold getting the arrow in the eye?

I do believe that because I think it's such a specific thing to have said about a battle. Yeah. Also, very unlucky. Pretty gross. Yeah. God, very unlucky. Yeah, pretty gross. Yeah. God, can I please just have it in the arm? The thigh I could handle, but in the bloody eye. I know.

And also, if they were attempting to embarrass him with a rumour like that, surely you're going, he got an arrow in his bum. Yeah, absolutely. It went up his bum and came out through his penis. That would be 100% the best bit of the Bayeux Tapestry if that was depicted. That would be where all the trips of school kids are gathering around.

Nobody else is looking at any other bit of a tapestry where there's 4,000 people gathered around the arrow in the butt section. The guy who runs a museum trying to move people along. Come on. Sir, you've been here for an hour. Every T-shirt in the gift shop would have that on it. There'd be nothing else available in the gift shop.

Key rings with the arrow butt. It would be a bit, even to this day, it would be a big Halloween costume. Everyone walking, all the kids dressed around as a medieval king with a harrow in their bums. In through the bum and out through the penis. Imagine a medieval kebab. Try to weave that.

Do you think, when the Bayeux tapestry started, you've got to, he started at the very start of the bar, you've got to do the arrow in the bum. You've got to do it. Yes, I will do it. We'll get Jill to do that. She's absolutely brilliant at the more complicated stuff. And she's got a sick imagination.

On this, I like the fact that Joe says he's going to go back to see if he gets the arrow in the eye. And I'm imagining a situation where he's just staring at Harold consistently throughout the battle. Harold's saying, stop. Why are you looking? Stop staring at my... Concentrate on the battle. Joe's trying to go you looking stop staring at my, concentrate on the battle

Joe's trying to go, no there's no reason don't worry, nothing's going to happen what's your game? why is he staring at my eye? and I'm imagining as we know his teacher, he's dressed like a stereotypical teacher with the little patches on his arms all that stuff

well that's fascinating so it may be that Guy Fawkes is innocent and all this stuff is is nonsense it's that's really an interesting question actually if anyone who any listeners happen to know of any historical facts that they've heard are false do send them in we will check them not that we don't trust you and we'll read them out if they feel believable there's the famous uh pictures of the before and after his torture of his signature, isn't there? What's that? Oh, my God.

It's so vivid in my memory. We had a school trip to the Tower of London. And you see he has to sign something, Guido Fawkes, on his way into the Tower of London. And then he gets tortured for hours and hours, the rack, everything. And then you see his signature at the end of it, and it is barely

legible if you've ever seen my signature on uh one of those things you have to sign when amazon bring a delivery round you'd assume i've been tortured for seven to eight hours it bears no resemblance to any word anyone has ever written when you have to use those little pads awful the tiny little pen dpd's register will be full of people who you'd think have been tortured. Are you going to say, I just don't really... I've now got to a point where I just make any movement. I just go, that's it. I just don't...

There's no effort. Are you posing for the photos? Yes, I do. And I sort of smile. It was weird. I don't know why I do that. Oh, I do something a little bit... I do a little cheeky over-the-shoulder shot.

Do you ever say, send me a copy? Is that just me? Yeah, I need new press shots. I've got a history podcast coming up. My mantelpiece is just full of framed pictures of me accepting parcels. I could not believe how much my son's school photos cost this year. So next year, I'm just going to wait for the Amazon guy to come around,

have Charlie ready in his school uniform, sit in my little stool pretending to read a book, and I'll get it for free. Well, thank you very much for that, Joe. That's a great email. What else have we got, Al? We've got a fantastic one-day time machine. Oh, yes. So here we go.

This is from David Shepard. Key origins from Auckland, New Zealand. Love the show, etc. I like that. Just pleasantries, but he's done them as quickly as poss. Yeah. Just a quick one-day time machine from me. I would go back to the Stone Age, find the nearest non-threatening caveman,

casually and coolly get out my zipper lighter, perhaps with a toothpick in my mouth, flick it on without saying anything, flip the lid down and then throw in the lighter followed by a wink and the gun hand gesture. So, not only have I become the inventor of fire, I also invented the wink and gun... LAUGHTER

..and the gun hand gesture, simultaneously becoming the coolest man on the planet cheers dave do you think there was a point when someone inadvertently invented the wink genuinely someone wait what did you do with your eye there what was that wasn't that wasn't a blink what was that that was different do you ever do you ever wink day to day these days yeah and i'm trying to get out of that habit because i when do you wink uh i i yeah i've winked it was very big in in wales in the 1980s and i'm beginning to think i have to accept that times have moved on and now it just looks it just looks weird now it was big in essex it was big in essex in the 80s 90s like every one of my uncles would say

goodbye be lucky and then a wink and a thumb and a thumb that big in Essex in the 80s, 90s like every one of my uncles would say goodbye, be lucky and then a wink and a thumb up but in the middle as they would walk off your drive. Ellis, just briefly describe to me the sort of situations you'd see a wink in Carmarthen in the 80s. When you say it was big when would you see a wink?

Every single, especially the men, every single one of my dad's friends would wink. So if you did anything vaguely cheeky, anything vaguely impressive, they would wink when they said goodbye. They would wink when they made a joke. People winked. But you're talking about the wink being invented. The high five was invented invented not quite in our lifetime

I think it was invented in the 70s really? no one high fived before the 70s some people suggested I was reading about it that it was the women's volleyball circuit in the 60s Magic Johnson claims that he invented

the high five at Michigan State in the late 1970s but yeah the high five at Michigan State in the late 1970s. But yeah, the high five is still relatively new. That's incredible. I can't believe it's relatively new. So there was a point pre-high five where people, that would never... I, for some reason, just assumed that's been around forever. In my mind, like, in medieval times, people were high fiving.

It's just been a part of sort of culture straight after the battle of hastings you're hearing about the arrow in the eye you're chucking up the high fives absolutely no chance that's unbelievable to me i can't even the second world war you think no it was a handshake wasn't it a slap on the back i just never knew it was an invention that's incredible and what an important invention i can't believe how naive you both are It was a handshake, wasn't it? A slap on the back. I just never knew it was an invention. That's incredible. And what an important invention. I can't believe how naive you both are.

I can't believe I'm doing a history podcast with two people who are so naive. To quickly go back to our email, I really like that idea of the wink and the gun gesture. My only concern there is that the gun gesture isn't going to actually mean anything to the person in the cave you the cave you're doing it to because the gun has not been invented yet yeah yeah good point so you're just basically pointing two fingers at someone maybe that is still cool in its own right i don't know do you know that thing when you're a kid you put your arms outstretched and you run around and pretend you're a plane yes that's like doing that gesture and claiming to have invented the plane a precursor yeah exactly well um great emails as as always um chris we have something else that we want to mention don't we this is big news guys next monday on next monday's

episode if you're a fan of this podcast if you love it if you want even more of it in your life we've got a big announcement for you. All will be revealed next week. So listen then for a big announcement. Oh, I'm going to say, I'm going to say, they're announcing the new history curriculum and the three of us did it. We did it in a weekend. It's a bit rushed. It's going to be controversial.

The right-wing press in particular think it's a retrograde step, but we've done it, we'vegrade step but we've done it we've done it we've done it we've told we've also told them that people can get a tick a correct mark if they're in the ballpark answer wise which i think is quite a fun way of approaching education it should have been done in the past it doesn't have to be exactly right you have to be within the vicinity of the correct answer and we'll give you that give. History is now a vibe-based GCSE. Some say we're dumbing down. We say we're making it more accessible.

Yeah, so big announcement next week. Make sure you're listening. And if you want to contribute to our correspondence section, here's how you can get in touch with the show. All right, you horrible lot. Here's how you can stay in touch with the show. You can email us at hello at oh, what a time dot com. And you can follow us on Instagram and Twitter at oh, what a time pod.

Now clear off. Are you Dave, a claims-free hybrid driving university grad who signed up online? Well, Dave, this jingle's for you. Now clear off. ways to save on home and auto so you can totally save just not exactly like dave save like only you can at tdinsurance.com slash ways to save td ready for you breaking news coming in from bet 365 where every nail-biting overtime win breakaway pick six three-point shot underdog win buzzer beater shootout walk off and absolutely every play in between is amazing from football to basketball On this week's episode episode where we discuss landmarks I will be talking about the Brooklyn Bridge. I will be talking about

Machu Picchu the Inca citadel that got lost to the forest that then became a global landmark. And it's very much a home game for me today

because I'm going to be talking to you about literally one of my favourite places in the world even to this day i find it exciting to go there wembley wembley stadium the site of live aid the site of england winning the world cup in 1966 the olympics in 1948 and 2012 countless memories an iconic venue and this is the story of how it came to be. And, of course, I will be discussing those famous Twin Towers. Now, this is one of my favourite things to tell people, and I can't wait to bore you with it or excite you with it,

hopefully the latter. The story of Wembley Stadium and how it began, how the site was chosen. The story starts with a man called Sir Edward Watkin, born 1819, died 1901, a British Member of Parliament, a railway entrepreneur, and he was the chairman of nine different

British railway companies. Sir Edward Watkin was quite interesting because he also started the Channel Tunnel back in the 1870s. I mean, let's say he started the Channel Tunnel. He did actually do some exploratory digging work, but he wanted to connect the rail network in France to his Grand Central main line.

But by 1881, his Channel Tunnel project had failed. How thorough was this? Was this like on a beach with a bucket and spade on holiday? How exploratory was this? I'm just going to see what... Just start digging down. Channel Tomlin's got a rich history back to the 1800s. Yeah, yeah.

Brave to brave to attempt that. Because even in the 80s, whenever it was, it was the 80s, wasn't it? In 1986, I think. I remember drawing a picture of what it would look like at school. Did you then send that in and then they used that as the basis for construction? Did you then send that in and then they used that as the basis for construction? No, I think when they started construction of the Channel Tunnel, construction started in 1988,

and I think it must have been on Blue Peter or something. And I thought, yeah, well, I thought I remembered thinking, I need some new ideas for some picture stuff. I'll probably be asked to draw a picture tomorrow. I'll just draw the Channel Tunnel. And it was two workmen with pickaxes working towards each other. Yes, I remember watching the news. Remember the British and the French engineers and they met in the middle and they shook hands under the Channel Tunnel.

Yes, I remember that as well, yeah. Can I just check something? Unless I'm being stupid. So this is 1870s exploratory work into the Channel Tunnel. This was a time of steam, wasn't it? This was steam trains then, obviously. The idea of going into... You can actually see...

I've seen the pictures. There is some rough illustrations of how it would work and it is steam engines going under the channel tunnel with vents popping up in the chat and the english channel at various points to facilitate plans had begun for a cross channel fixed link and as early as the as the 1802 it was talked about i think napoleon talked about it no way't it? Yeah. I am not going under the sea in a steam train. Are you mad? I would say that to the designer.

I'd say, I don't want to cause offence, but you have lost your mind. You think I'm doing that. Can I just say as well, as someone who obviously has flown to Europe, the channel tunnel is so much better. It's a much better way of getting to France and Belgium. I love it. I did so many of the Euro 2016 tournament games on the Eurostar.

Honestly, uncynically, just a massive fan, and I love it. I find it really, really exciting. I'm not taking the piss that's a completely genuine opinion the first time i got on the the channel tunnel i was so excited and then you realize oh it's just a tunnel it's just gone black of course it's just gone dark for the next 40 minutes that's that's it i don't know what i was expecting but i still find that really exciting i still i'm sat there going i'm under the sea

i'm going so fast and i'm being served pastries yeah it's like this is living i'm running i'm running up and down the carriage shaking people by the hand saying we're under the fucking sea there's fish up there fish fish sharks some guy who's trying to sort of make money for a charity by you know he's struggling at this point covered in goose fat williams is up there now goose fatted up um we better return to sir edward watkin Boo! So he had loads of executive appointments among the railway networks in the UK, including chairman of the Metropolitan Railway.

And what he wanted to do, he connected the Metropolitan line to the present-day London Underground system. And what he wanted to do was get people up into Buckinghamshire where this new line was kind of blazing a trail. And so he thought, we need to create a big tourist experience in in buckinghamshire so he looked around and he found in meddlesex a little hamlet called wembley

he bought a big tract of land and he said we're going to create like an amusement park here that's going to have boating lakes a waterfall ornamental gardens. We'll have football pitches, cricket pitches. But it needs a main event. It needs something, a landmark that everyone will be drawn to. And so he wanted to create a soaring metal tower that would be explicitly bigger and grander than the Eiffel Tower in Paris. He actually asked Gustave Eiffel, the designer of the Eiffel Tower in Paris. Oh, wow. And he actually asked Gustave Eiffel, the designer of the Eiffel Tower, to design the tower.

But Gustave Eiffel refused, saying the French people would not think me so good a Frenchman as I hope I am. So it's a matter of national pride that he didn't help Britain create something more spectacular than the Eiffel Tower. So in order to get people to this amusement park, they built Wembleyy park station the brand new station on the metropolitan railway it was built to handle the massive crowds that were planned to flock to the park that station opened in 1893 94 and wembley park the amusement park opened in may

1894 and it attracted 12 000 visitors during 1895 and was an immensely popular attraction in london however so the watkins tower he wanted to build this tower and he asked to to get some public funds in order to able to better facilitate its creation but he was turned down no public money was to be spent on the tower so he went back to the design and he said let's scrap these eight legs let's have four legs instead so when the park opened they were beginning the construction of the tower but that design decision to swap from eight legs to four legs would prove to be absolutely fatal as they built the first part so you know when you look at the Eiffel Tower that first kind of platform, that first level,

they basically got as far as that with the Watkins Tower and immediately started running into trouble. It was going lopsided. It was suffering subsidence. It was wonky in every way a structure could be wonky. And it was that decision to swap from eight legs down to four legs. It put more pressure on the four legs and the ground wasn't suitable. So early on, as it got to the first day they were like this is absolutely messed up wow the construction company uh ran into immediate problems kind of financing the project that it was running over and so they went

into voluntary liquidation 1899 the work stopped wow Watkins died in 1901 and the whole site was declared unsafe can I give a quick shout out at this point chris to the people who were building the leading tower of pisa who got to that point and thought no let's keep going it's fine they thought i reckon we can turn this into a tourist attraction actually give it 100 years you'll be people stood in the middle distance pretending they're holding up holding it up while people take photos of them that's's where the... Can you imagine the stress of being an engineer and you're building a massive tower of tourist attraction and you look at it and you think,

no, surely not, and then you stand a little bit further back and you're like, oh, God, and then you go a little bit further back again and you're like, it's wonky. You've made a mistake. You look down and you realise you're only wearing one shoe and that's why it looked fine.

Can you imagine the day on site? The day on site, they got the spirit level out. And they went, oh, no. It's such a marginal thing. But you think, the implications of the spirit level not being level are terrifying. And Sir Edward Watkin as well. Dying in 1901. Dying dying as he realizes this catastrophe is unfolding oh that's horrendous yeah so so sir edward watkin dies in 1901 the whole project the tower is scrapped in 1899 and then between 1904 and 1907 they get the dynamite out and blow the tower to smithereens.

Wow. But, so they've got this Wembley Park. They've got all the kind of transport infrastructure in place. And then the 1924 British Empire exhibition rolls around. And they're looking for a site to hold the event. And what better site than Wembley Park? That has all that transport infrastructure, like I say, and was meant to have this

magnificent tower, doesn't, is missing something. So they build the 125,000 capacity British Empire Stadium on the site of the failed Watkins Tower. Well, well, well. Which is incredible, isn't it? On ground that has already been proven to be too soft for

construction. That is why you're the only one who won World Cup. It's a site marked by failure. Yeah, they've been playing on a wonky pitch for hundreds since 1923. It's like when you play sort of Sunday League when you're 12 and it's like one half of the game is notably harder

than the other because the pitch is at an incredible angle. The ball rolls at kick-off. Yeah, absolutely. That's amazing. The British Empire Stadium was designed by Maxwell Ayrton. And it was really designed to... It was meant to demonstrate the close links between Britain and its empire, particularly India.

So the towers, the twin towers, I don't know if you remember them on the old Wembley Stadium, was that they both had kind of domed roofs towers the twin towers if you don't know if you remember them on the old wembley stadium um it was that they both had kind of domed roof roofs that were massively influenced by the viceroy's house now the presidential palace in delhi oh interesting i didn't know that so they started construction work on the british empire stadium in 1922 and it was completed ahead of time uh for the british empireition in 1924. And the British Empire Exhibition was meant to be a showcase

of Britain's great passion for and invention of modern spectator sport. Interestingly about the tower, I don't know if you remember as well, there was a huge debate about can we save the towers? Is there a way to reconstruct it, take them down and rebuild them? But interestingly, the whole stadium wembley was only meant to be a temporary affair the plan was to build this this stadium for the british empire exhibition and tear it down shortly afterwards so the towers themselves were built of this stuff called ferro concrete a material that's really easy to kind of put up but crucially really easy to kind of put up, but crucially, really easy to pull down. And when the stadium hosted the 1923 FA Cup final,

that vista of those magnificent towers captured everybody's imagination. And by the 1930s, fans themselves were speaking devotedly about the twin towers and the aerial photography that was coming around made it look absolutely magnificent. But in 1925 the plan changed from knocking down the stadium to you know what this is actually quite brilliant now that we've got you know the exhibition might be gone but this is a brilliant stadium that has to remain but the thing that really changed was in 1927 the future of Wembley was basically secured by Arthur Elvin an entrepreneur he bought Wembley Stadium and he

said this is how we're going to derive a profit we're going to put Greyhound racing on extremely lucrative in the 20s and it was Elvin who changed its name from the British Empire Stadium to Wembley Stadium and even it like in the 90s and I've heard that in the 60s Wembley couldn't actually host one of the World Cup games because they were sticking to greyhound racing. It was more profitable. Yeah. Sorry, when was that, Chris? 66 World Cup.

One of the games had to be moved because Wembley refused to move the greyhound racing. That's incredible. Yeah. Wembley would, of course, go on to host a whole range of sport. American football, rugby league, baseball, boxing. It was a backdrop, like I said at the start, of the 1948 Olympic Games, the 1966 World Cup final. And it's the Twin Towers survived in the end

far more than was planned. They survived 80 years, and in 2003, they were demolished to make way for the new Wembley Stadium. And when they demolished Wembley Stadium, what did they find underneath those famous twin towers? The foundations of the Watkins Tower. Really? Yeah, that is fascinating.

What was... Good yarn, that. It's made of this material that's meant to be yanked down again. Yeah, they made loads of schools out of it. Yes! Yes! they made loads of schools out of it. Okay, this week I'm going to be discussing the Brooklyn Bridge

and it is an incredible test of my willpower and fortitude that I'm not doing the entire thing. And that kind of, oh, on the 24th of May, 1883, New Yorkers gather. I need to not do this. Is that slightly informed by the fact we get quite a few emails from American listeners? Is there part of you... Now, if you were to wear the fact we had an american listening base

you maybe wouldn't be i want them to i want them to listen to this section ago oh my god i'm absolutely amazed that he wasn't born and bred in williamsburg so on the 24th of may 1883 new yorkers gathered to witness the opening of a bridge that so it was said could never be built so it crosses the east river from manhattan to brooklyn people said it was impossible the gap was just too much for modern engineering for instance how could you build the pillars that was the big question now it's an absolute icon the brooklyn bridge is certainly an american icon and it's got a cultural history all of its own there are a few other bridges that I would say are famous.

The Golden Gate Bridge in San Francisco, the Humber Bridge in Hull, the Fourth Railway Bridge outside Edinburgh, the Old Bridge in Pontypridd. The Old Bridge in Pontypridd is amazing because it's a scheduled ancient monument. It's grade one listed. I think at one point it was one of the biggest

single span bridges in the world the old bridge in ponta brie was built in 1756 and what i love about the old bridge in ponta brie at one point it was known as the new bridge can i just say it's never a good idea i was thinking about this about barcelona stadium the camp new never call something the new thing you know it's very short-termist. There's an awful lot of places that still have the word millennium in the title. Was there a brief period where it was called

the Middle Age Bridge, out of interest? Yeah, yeah, yeah. The Newish Bridge. There's a new town in Wales, the town in Mid Wales. As you drive in, on the sign it says New Town. A new town since 1279 there was an indian takeaway uh near me where i used to live in hoxton which is called curry 2000 which i imagined for a period made it feel like it was really forward thinking but then as we went past the millennium it just felt like it was increasingly a bit dated

because if you were going for a takeaway should we get a curry 19 1980 not really that sounds absolutely terrible it does suggest that there'd be sort of like robot waiters and stuff like this kind of really really modern curries let's let's go to 60s kebab. I'm not sure. Now, responsibility for the bridge's design and the construction fell to one family, John Washington and Emily Roebling, and to the Tammany Hall Controlled Construction Company, the New York Bridge Company. Now, John Roebling, he was born in Germany in 1806,

but he emigrated to the US in 1831, and he took up a career as an engineer specialising in bridge design, particularly suspension bridges. That's a relief, to be honest. He studies sociology. Yeah, well, what do you do? I empty vending machines, actually, but I am willing to have a go at this. But I am free next week, and I live near the the river so i'm willing to give it a go it's like when you when you get someone

around to work on your house and they look at the thing you want them to do they go yeah i've seen a couple of these and you're like no don't say that you've seen it a couple of times please tell me that you know what you're doing i've seen a couple of these i was texting the builder last week and he said, I need to have my porch looked down. I live in a conservation area. And the builder replied, yeah, I could have a go at that. Have a go at that.

No. No. What I want is I've done this before. I need you to approach this with a certain level of expertise. Don't want you coming around having a go at things I've seen a couple of them I could do that no, no, you do do that you do it

all the time now, Roebling looked to perfect the principles pioneered by people like Thomas Telford and Isambard King and Brunel. Over the years, he designed and he oversaw the construction of a series of suspension bridges in Philadelphia, Cincinnati, Pittsburgh and at Niagara Falls. And this success earned him the commission to design what was initially called the East River Bridge. The name Brooklyn Bridge came about officially in 1915, although it was informally adopted almost immediately. And he took some of these principles previously used in what was known

as the Roebling Suspension Bridge in Cincinnati. So he turned a sort of a single arch on each pillar into a kind of double Gothic revival arch arch instead so it makes it look really really iconic and and it's and it's turned it just from another bridge into a real sort of landmark of late 19th century civilization yeah now the problem was because obviously he designed it the problem was where do you locate it so in the of 1869, he was surveying a probable site, but John Roebling's foot was crushed by a cross-river ferry. I've got quite a basic question. How?

Was he paddling? In a dock? Was he dangling in a dock? He must have been dangling over a dock. I reckon, I think I would have time to move my foot out of the way. And I don't have a go at him. He's clearly a clever bloke, but I find it so difficult to believe that this happened. I feel the same, Ellis,

about anyone who's ever been flattened by a steam train. I mean, surely. You can hear it, you can see the smoke, and you have a minimum of seven minutes to get out of the way. Does that not tell you to get out the way? So it was June 28th 1869. At Fulton Ferry

he was standing at the edge of a dock. He was working on fixing the location where the bridge would be built and his foot was crushed by an arriving ferry. Oh. I mean the ferries are slowing down to come into dock Also, yeah

Yes His injured toes were amputated He refused further medical treatment and he wanted to cure his foot by water therapy the continuous pouring of water over the wound I'd assume he'd find that quite triggering considering what's just happened to him.

Don't bring water into the healing process. You've just had a boat crush your foot. Do something dry. His condition deteriorated and he died on July the 22nd, 1869 of tetanus at his home. No! So it was 24 days after the accident.

Oh my God. So he refused sort of proper treatment and i've i've i've got to be honest i've got limited sympathy yeah mate you were dangling your foot off a dock you got crushed by a ferry and then he poured water over it until you were dead you've you've had an absolute nightmare Would you feel confident at the funeral saying he died doing what he loved? Because in a way, he's into boats, isn't he, and rivers. So there's an argument you could probably say that. And people go, yeah, in a way, that is right.

That is true. He did love boats. He insisted on non-medical intervention. That's insane. So what can you say? I mean, that's your own fault, isn't it? So now it's his son, John's son, Washington, is tasked with finishing his father's work

and construction began on the Brooklyn side on the 2nd of January 1870. So they're all hungover. Yep. What's the 1st of January, did he say? Oh, no, 2nd of January. 2nd of January, OK. A couple of the younger ones have got two-day hangovers,

but the more sensible ones are like, like yeah i took it easy yesterday i had a i had a fry up and i went for a walk in the afternoon that sorted me out i just guarantee you ellis they did not start at 9 00 a.m on the second either they just started coming in around half 11 maybe a couple around lunch the first day was not particularly efficient. Some of them still with face paint on. They haven't quite washed off from two nights earlier. Yeah, a mesh vest. Exactly, yeah. Washington lasted about a year.

Then the experience of working underwater in a pressurised caisson. So this was during the construction of the bridge pillars. And the caisson provided the foundations. And they're these sort of watertight pillars. It caused him to experience the bends. And the caisson provided the foundations, and they're these sort of watertight pillars. Incredible. And it caused him to experience the bends. So the same effect was apparent across the bridge's workforce.

So people died or they were injured permanently from working in the caisson. Oh, I've heard about this. So in 1872, for example, at least three men died and more than 100 suffered from decompression sickness. Wow. So, in fact, the bends was first identified as an illness by the project doctor Andrew Smith who labelled it Kyson disease. So now Washington Roebling, the son is bed bound. So the task

of finishing the Brooklyn Bridge i.e. being the chief engineer that fell to Emily Roebling, Washington's wife. So it's almost like a hereditary position. Yeah. They're like, okay let his son do it well he's all right he's bedbanned but let his wife do it then you sort of think there'll be a different there'll be a different protocol in place her eight-year-old son crossing his fingers it doesn't come to him next yeah all right let the baby do it

can a cat do it now she was effectively in charge of the building project from the time her husband fell in in 1870 until the bridge was completed in 1883 now incredibly her involvement in the bridge was recognized even at the time so her story's not one of those that had to be rediscovered yeah although it was minimized during much of the 20th century but still reminds us uh that the great legacy the of the Brooklyn Bridge is that it exists because of her persistence and skill. So on the front page of the New York Times on the 23rd of May 1883, the day before the bridge's great unveiling to the public, Emily's role was praised, which is really, really important. The paper wrote, Mrs. Roebling applied herself to the study of engineering and she succeeded so well that in

a short time she was able to assume the duties of chief engineer. When bids for the steel and ironwork for the structure were advertised it was found that entirely new shapes would be required. This necessitated new patterns and representatives of the mills desiring to bid so they went to New York to consult with Mr Roebling. The surprise was great when Mrs Roebling sat down with them and by her knowledge helped them out with their patterns and cleared away difficulties that had Amazing. So her skill and her initiative and her abilities were recognised at the time, which, when you consider that it was the 1880s, is really, really significant. As for the success of the bridge, more than 150,000 people crossed it on the first day.

And by the end of the decade, annual patronage had risen to more than 34 million. I've got to be honest, when a new bridge is built and for a long time it was regarded as impossible because the span was too wide, I think I'd leave it a day before crossing it. I think I'd cross it on the second day

so i'm going to take you back back in, and I'm going to talk to you about Machu Picchu, which is the incredible Inca citadel, which is perched high in the Andes mountains in Peru. And I'm going to tell you about how it became one of the new wonders of the world, alongside Petra in Jordan, the Colosseum, and the Taj Mahal. So I'll start with a bit of context about who the Incas were. The Incas were, you may know, an incredibly powerful civilisation who at their height had the largest empire in the world, stretching right along the Pacific coast of South America from modern day Peru, Ecuador, Bolivia, Chile and northwest Argentina. And to this day, it remains the largest empire

to ever exist in the Americas. Wow. Its capital, I know, it's amazing, its capital was Cuzco, but today its most well-known city is Machu Picchu. Now, have either of you been to Machu Picchu? No. You haven't?

Certainly not. Now, you've seen the images of it, have you? It's incredible. Yes. Whenever someone goes travelling in South America, I've seen the pictures. it, have you? It's incredible. Yes. Whenever someone goes travelling in South America, I've seen the pictures. You've seen the pictures. Everyone's got it. You've ever had a mate who's gone travelling in South America,

you've seen it. It's on Facebook. And they've told you, oh, I have to get up at 3am to start tracking up. Bore off. Well. You say bore off. But please tell me about it. Well, I'm about to tell you more about that trek so thank you for the absolute lack of lack of interest before i head into a section which

is on that trek so your friend who you've told to bore off uh will have taken an 8 000 feet walk basically you have to get up to 8 000 feet to get up to Machu Picchu. Which I, incidentally, I wouldn't mind. I don't have a problem walking somewhere if I'm going to a thing. I don't know if you're the same as this, but I don't like walking for the sake of walking. That's where I am. So you don't like ambling? I don't like ambling, but if I know I'm going to a particular place,

then I'm okay with doing a walk, even if it's long. So, for instance, Izzy went away with two of her best friends from school at the weekend. And on the Saturday, they went for a walk not for me not for me it's gamelessness to stick something say we're going to have a pint in a pub at the end of it or we're going to yeah there's a particular brook or something i want to look at just end up just anything so i have feel i feel that there's some kind of focus as to where we're going. I could get you out the house with the promise of a brook. You'd be more likely to tempt me out.

If you just said we're just going to walk around for 40 minutes, it's not for me. I don't know. I'd rather just sort of sit down for 40 minutes. But anyway, when you get to the top of this place, when you've got to 8,000 feet, you'll find an array of ruins. It's described to listeners who aren't familiar with it there's stone built houses secular religious building gardens and canals all set in these incredible tiers 8 000 feet it's amazing isn't it and terraces along a plateau bloody hell it's really really high up and it's this incredible set of

ruins up there now when these ruins were first discovered at the start of the 20th century, it was claimed that Machu Picchu was thousands of years old. However, using carbon dating, archaeologists have concluded that the site was actually built in the middle of the 15th century. So it's actually only about 600 years old. Rubbish. Oh, is it? Yeah, it is.

This is the amazing thing, which really doesn't seem that long ago. I always thought it was way older. Exactly. It doesn't seem that long ago it was way older exactly it doesn't seem that long ago especially considering the stuff the inkers used to get up to so i'm going to give you a little refresher of some of these things i want to get your thoughts on these now considering this is only 600 years ago they used to do human sacrifice consistently to appease the gods at regular or regular intervals throughout the year often young people and this is the fact that I find bleakest, the parents would often put their children forward for it.

Oh, come on. The bodies would be laid in the freezing ice in the mountains. Basically, that's what's happened. That's how they preserve them. And then, once again, just to remind you, this is only 600 years ago, they would be dug up regularly to be consulted on, on important issues in the community, and to be present at ceremonies like marriage.

They dig up, for example, your gran, and they pop her on the front row of your marriage. I was thinking about that. I would be annoyed as a guest if I'm looking at the seating plan and I realise I've been stuck by a frozen gran. Are you kidding me? You know when it gets late on a wedding, everyone's a bit drunk.

You're not going to put Grandma back that night, are you? No, but you'd want to do it ASAP before she thaws out. Straight after the ceremony, before the reception really gets them, the canapes and champagne. So, it is believed that Machu Picchu was finally abandoned

towards the end of the 16th century in the wake of the invasion of the Incan territory by the Spanish conquistadors. Now, the Spanish destroyed loads of Inca buildings during their conquest. They built Catholic churches on the sites where they destroyed these buildings however the reason the Machu Picchu remains so well preserved and I think this is fascinating is the fact that Spanish never found it that's partly due to the location

right in the jungle but also or up a mountain in the jungle also because there's evidence that the Incas themselves as they abandoned it they burnt all the paths up to it destroyed all the ways uh that people would spot how to reach this incredible place and then it basically got swallowed up once again by the jungle and then was forgotten and it it lay there for some uh 500 600 years without anyone knowing it was there okay so it's just hidden in the jungle this huge city just hidden in the jungle now hidden that is until it was finally rediscovered just before the first world war so that's so long if you think about it incredible isn't it really and the person who claimed credit for discovering it was an american academic and explorer his name was hiram bingham who arrived on the 24th of july 1911 during an expedition funded by yale university and the national

geographic now the way he describes the mission is proper indiana jones stuff i'd like you to tell me at which point of this you're you're turning back okay on the road up to the citadel bingham and his party put past poisonous snakes some dead others very much alive several of the pack animals accompanied the explorers were killed by these snakes as although as an ominous warning of the death to come and anyone okay i don't feel great so far but I've come this I've come this far and I'm desperate to get a promotion at work so I'm sticking with it

Tom isn't this your ultimate nightmare an amble they don't know what they're looking for exactly that's a very good point actually if you don't even like the amble throw in some poisonous snakes and I think it's doubly rubbish so are you sticking with it Chris you're sticking with this amble I just don't like it Never mind them. Throw in some poisonous snakes and I think it's doubly rubbish.

So are you sticking with it, Chris? You're sticking with this anvil? I just don't like it. I just don't stick. Yeah, you're out. So Ellis is still part of the group. Chris has dropped out already. Elsewhere, the group had to cross rivers in raging torrents using only simple rope bridges that seemed always threatening to snap.

So they were basically old rope bridges that were hundreds of years old clinging on by a thread across torrential rivers are you um you're going across those ale you how are you thinking about that i'm a very weak swimmer okay but desperate to get this promotion at work and as your brook so i'm sticking with it and you're as your brooklyn uh section shows you love bridges as well. Yes, yes, absolutely, yeah. And then finally, they had to hack their way through the thick jungle using only machetes with no idea what was in there with them. So this is the final push. So they're hacking through the jungle with the machetes

with no idea what's around them. I've sadly got a very low boredom threshold. Okay, yeah. And so the endless hacking... That's the point. I think at this stage, you'll be like, oh, sod it. So you'll turn around, back across the threadbare bridge, pass all the dead donkeys which have been bitten by snakes.

It's an extra six grand a year, but to be honest, the extra responsibility would piss me off. So I'll bow out at this stage. Do they know where they're going? Are they heading for a place or are they just having an amble? No, they sort of coincidentally found it. And eventually they found Machu Picchu. And on his return to the United States, Bingham wrote up what he'd found

with his articles and photographs appearing in Harper's Magazine in 1912, National Geographic soon after. Can you imagine the thrill of finding it? Yes. It would be extraordinary. Absolutely. I think it's probably one of the great discoveries on Earth,

isn't it? Yeah. It absolutely is. It completely is. It's unparalleled really this that tootin car moon's tomb the foundations of the watkins town it's my the great and in my case was he's combining oreo salt vinegar crisps and milk in one mouthful that for me is the greatest discovery i've ever that is up there if anyone hasn't done that that is that is joy itself okay so he wrote these articles when he got back to america national geographic harper's magazine and very quickly his discovery turned into a global sensation

and before long he and modern mass media had made machu picchu into a landmark however and it is a big however guys are you ready for this yeah he hadn't discovered it first and he knew it but what so you got there first we will find out here on his 1911 trip this is so dark bingham had found some charcoal graffiti on one of the stones it was a name and a date a lizaraga 1902 the name of the person who had beaten him to the city augustin lizaraga ruiz a peruvian farmer who'd arrived some nine years earlier in 1902 in fact here in bingham's very own diary on the 25th of july 1911 the day after he discovered machu picchu he wrote augustin uh lizuraga is the discoverer of machu picchu and lives at san miguel bridge just before passing so he wrote down his own diary he knew this guy had found it he found out who he was

he knew where he lived and worse than that however bingham ordered the removal of his name and date from the stones citing preservation reasons and then realizing that being seen as a person who discovered machu pichu would make him famous and rich over the coming years he worked to completely remove the idea this peruvian farmer had found machu pichu and to this day, the American, not the Peruvian, gets the credit for finding Machu Picchu and sparking the tourist trade that continues to the present day. He was just an explorer under farmer. Can you imagine how he'd have felt?

Yeah, I know, absolutely. He'd be walking back down to the bottom from the summit. He'd be like, you will never guess what's up there. the summit you'd be like you will never guess what's up there you i i probably it is absolutely mental what's up there you'd also you'd sound nuts wouldn't you yeah what what why do i look so excited hidden bloody city up there nick i don't know 500 years so thanks for listening yet again guys thank you for giving us your time

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