Oh What A Time... - #204 Celebrities & What Did a Dodo Taste Like? (Part 1)

Episode Date: October 18, 2026

This week we’ll be meeting some of the most celebrated individuals of their age. We’ve got one of the most popular actresses of the 1770s - Sarah Siddons, the most successful entertainer of the 1910s - Harry Lauder, and the absolutely huge comedy radio star of the 1920s - Tommy Handley.Elsewhere, do we simply just have too much stuff now? Would a 16th century lifestyle be better? Do let us know: [e-mail] if you want more Oh What A Time and both parts at once, you should sign up for our Patreon! On there you’ll now find: • The full archive of bonus episodes • Brand new bonus episodes each month • OWAT subscriber group chats • Loads of extra perks for supporters of the show • PLUS ad-free episodes earlier than everyone elseJoin us at 👉 patreon.com/ohwhatatimeAnd as a special thank you for joining, use the code CUSTARD for 25% off your first month.You can also follow us on: X (formerly Twitter) at @ohwhatatimepodAnd Instagram at @ohwhatatimepodAaannnd if you like it, why not drop us a review in your podcast app of choice?Thank you to Dan Evans for the artwork (idrawforfood.co.uk).Chris, Elis and Tom x Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Oh Water Time is now on Patreon. You can get main feed episodes before everyone else. Add free. Plus access to our full archive of bonus content, two bonus episodes every month, early access to live show tickets and access to the O Watertime Group chat. Plus if you become an O Watertime All-Timer, myself, Tom and Ellis will riff on your name to postulate

where else in history you might have popped up. For all your options, you can go to patreon.com forward slash O Watertime. Hello and welcome to Alla Time. The history podcast that dares to ask the question in 2026 in the post-Maricondo age, have we got too much stuff? Only because I just tried to pick up a pair of socks on the top of my chest of drawers. The whole thing is balanced like a kind of jenga. There's books there.

There's t-shirts. There's sun cream from the summer. There's old bits of electronics for things I don't even use anymore. Chargers that are now really. redundant, all balanced. Very precariously in my chest of drawers, I moved it, and it all fell off. This, a book on cycling I'd

be looking for for two years. That was under there. A pair of trousers I've not seen probably for five years. I would no longer work, because they're too tight. They were under there. And you think to yourself, if I just burn it all and start again. You can't burn it all anymore, Ellis, because of global warming.

Apparently that's not all right anymore. You can't take all your old tyres out to a field and burn them anymore. Well, you know, when you go to, there's some folk museums where the house will be built and furnished in the way it would have been lived in in 1700. And in terms of possessions, at most, it would have been a small and comfortable stool for sitting on a Bible and your turnip knife. And that would have been it. There had been the shoes you wore about four items of clothing. That was literally it. I'll give you a question, Al. Around what year do you think the first person came along?

just as a, you know, your average Joe, I mean here, who owned something they didn't need. Because in my mind, if you look at like a medieval cottage, everything in there had a direct use, your survival, your warmth or whatever. Nobody had just something for the sake of having that thing. They don't really use it anymore. Very good question. I think obviously a very different answer for the wealthy. I'm just looking at the desk, right? This is my workplace. This is where I work. So a load of like spare caps for headphones. Never used those. I don't know what it happens before.

A sort of a bottle from a lemonade top, sort of strange toy television. I don't know what the point of that is. Hell, have you considered binning stuff? A weird lizard. I don't know what that would be. Is that a functioning mini-tellie? I don't know.

Unicorn pencil. This is like a kind of parrot vase, parrot mug. One of my daughter's hair bubbles. This is a badge that says I like toucans. I don't know what they are What the hell, this is stressing me out It would have been a battery of some sort

Don't know what that is It's like the generation game this I'm now looking at the floor The Spectre of PEP How Guadiola haunt modern football tactics I think books are okay Books are things that you are using actively in your life That's all right

They're on the floor There's just a bit of a cardboard there A guitar An empty plastic bag full of old bills a charger for a laptop I no longer use. There's too much stuff, man. Guys, do you remember a TV show called A Life of Grime in the Early Nauties? And there was a man in it called Mr. Trebus.

Yes, loved it. This is how Mr. Trebus began. It starts now with a parrot jug. Fast forward five years. You can't get in your front door because you're never binning a newspaper. Yeah. Yes. Every copy of the Guardian from the last 15 years is sort of in a tower.

Is he recycles probably 80 new statesmen's today and said this has to stop by this. And I said, oh yeah, well, I'll stop buying the new statesman when you stop buying parrot mugs. And I don't even know if you did buy this. Was it a gift? How does this happen? I don't know.

I don't know what it is. I'll stop buying the new statesman when these stop appearing where I work, like this weird floppy lizard. I don't know where this came from. What tells me, are you having all that stuff on the top of your cupboard? So you're operating what I would describe as an out-of-sight, out-of-mind tidying policy in your house. Yeah, 100%. Do you need a stapler?

Got one. Find a gap. Fill it with stuff. Do you need a copy of Domesticke by Charlie Wagellius, the truth about modern professional cycling? Got it, mate. It doesn't bother me. So are you saying you would prefer a, and I think I probably would in many ways, a 16th century lifestyle where you've just got your wooden floors,

one candle, probably as you say, the world's most uncomforty chair at a bed that you and your six children live in. But you know where everything is. Complete simplicity. Elle needs to be a nomadic tribe. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Before people lived in cities. What I don't need is some cat wrapping paper. I'm picturing that nomadic tribe, though, Skull.

All the leaders walking forward with their spear and their sort of animal hide trunks. And at the back is Ellis dragging. What are you dragging? Cat wrapping paper. Sorry, guys. I needed to bring gentle giant The Incredible Life of John Charles And they all hate him

Cut to one particularly cold night When they need something to burn for fuel And they turn to wear this and goes I've got it I've got a thousand paperbacks And he suddenly becomes a hero I say I've got it I've got a tiny small plastic miniature suitcase

Yeah I've got it What's your house like skull Your house is quite clutter free Isn't it relatively I think You regard my house as clutter free but there's still too much clutter for me. You know, Steve Jobs, famously,

had like almost nothing in his house because he hated clutter and also he felt that every single thing in his house had to justify its presence. And he was so extreme in this view that he didn't have a sofa because there was no sofa he ever found that matched his requirements for what a sofa should be.

Steve Trump's never had a sofa. When he's watching Strictly or whatever, with his family, what's he sat on? She was standing up, like in a way end. We were sat on the floor. He had terraces, did he? Yeah, yeah. He had safe standing in his living room.

No way. I love that. That's absolutely bonkers. At least settle on a... You've got enough money to have a temporary sofa, Steve. You're okay. You don't have to settle on one. He's not going, we shouldn't waste a grand on this.

You're Steve Jobs. Buy the temporary sofa, Steve. Steph Guerrero said, of an excellent sister podcast, The social distance sports bar, do listen on all podcast platforms. He said, if you haven't used something for a year, just check it out. Yeah. And you're like, yeah.

Or sell it? You could sell it. Let me confess something now, and I'm sure friends of my wife who listen to this are going to tell her, I have that secret policy in place. If there's things I really want to be in, what I do is I hide them. And this is in an instance where my wife wants to keep it, I will hide them for a year. If she hasn't said in that year that it's missing or she's asked for it, then it's gone.

She hasn't mentioned her insulin in a month. But it's gone. It's a good, but I do this with kids toys too. It's like when you go on holiday, if you go, not with kids as much, but if you go, if you ever go away without the children, you strip your life back to its sort of bare basics.

It's like wash bag, passport. A pack in a weekend bag. A couple of charges. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's sort of, there's not much else you need, really. It's such a freedom. You see that most on like a lad's weekend away, where you're just like, you just grab a bag. You fill it up with what you need.

You walk out the door and you're free. That said, there's a yearly thing in my local area. I live in an area called Claxton, East London. There's a thing called the Clacton Jumble Trail, where once a year in September, everyone sets up a stall outside their house and 10% or something or some, I know you pay to put the stall out and the money goes to all charity and everyone just flogs their stuff. We made about 240 quid last month by just selling the kids sold their toys. We sold things that we couldn't fit anymore, and the sort of stuff.

And it was quite satisfying. That's another thing to do. Set up a trestle table outside your house and run a shop once a weekend. Maybe you'll declutter your house. We have a jumble trail around our way. It is the worst day of the year. Because if you go out with kids, you come back with three Spider-Men, of which all of them are missing a limb. You'll come back with a toy with inexhaired.

explicable instructions of how to use it. Puzzles with like the no dice or really important cards missing. Yeah. And then you're responsible for these things. Kids love complete shit. Would you like to hear a story which fits into the long list of stories that listeners writing about Tom Cray Miss App? Okay.

This is the Clapton Jumble Trail a fortnight ago. We had some curtains made for our house about a year ago. And there was a sale on, so we bought too much. of this curtain material, okay? So we had an excess roll of this curtain material. We don't need the curtain material. The curtain material, however, is wrapped up in a thick plastic. So I put the curtain material outside the house.

And because people don't know what the curtain material looks like inside, I take down one of our small curtains from the front room and I draper over the top, to show what the material is inside. Anyway, cut to a long story short, I managed to sell our actual curtain as well. So... And not the wrong.

Claire came in and there's a gap one of the windows and went, so where's our curtain? And I realized, oh, no, no. Not only have I sold the excess material, I've also sold the actual curtain. So we don't have a curtain in the middle of our front room anymore. That's so. You sold the curtain. Your wife loves you more than my wife loves me. I don't understand it.

Izzy would go absolutely ballistic if I did. Absolutely. And the lady Haggle. me down as well, Elle. She haggled me down from 20 quid to 10 and then took our actual curtain. Anyway, how can that be the final mistake I ever make? How Claire is not on edge the whole time, I don't understand. And it also means we can't see our tell anymore because the sun comes in. That curtain used to block. So you can't see what's all tell you anymore.

She was a constant reminder of the moment when I sold our curtain. Oh, man. That's so funny. Right. Should we talk about history? Let's talk about what we're talking about today. Do you know exactly the sort of people probably have too many things in their houses, too much clutter,

all their wealth, it's celebrities. Would you agree? Very good. Yeah. Absolutely. And today we're talking about celebrities from history. Later in the show,

I'm going to be telling you about the very first, you'll love this album, this is right up your street, the very first radio comedian. Oh, great. Genuinely, quite a fascinating story. The first person to go from stage to radio and truly capitalize it on it,

around World War I. It's a fascinating story. A little later in the show, I'm going to tell you about Sir Harry Lauder, who has a claim to have invented the modern notion of what a Scottish person looks like. We'll get into that. Also, an incredibly well-paid entertainer. And as I will discuss, he's got a claim for, at the time, being the highest paid entertainer who had ever lived. Oh, wow. Okay.

I'll be talking about one of the greatest actors. of the 18th century Saracidens. Right, before that, though, let's do a little bit of correspondence. Two very short emails. They're punchy, though, they're to the point and I like them both. The first one is from Jackie Reynolds. It's in regards to mobile libraries. We talked about this recently, how we loved the mobile library as a kid.

One needs to come to my cul-sac, and I just absolutely loved it. And we wrongly assume they didn't exist anymore. How wrong we were. Jackie says, hi, boys, just to keep you in the real world which exists outside London. Jackie, that's a fair point, let's be honest. Bedford Borough operates a mobile library service that visits urban areas and over 40 rural villages on a two-week rotating timetable. They can carry a selection for adults and kids, and you can also order books. So if you're in that area, once a fortnight, this mobile library is visiting you, especially in rural areas.

I love that. I love that they still exist. I would be so excited seeing that come over the crest of the hill. Still, I would. I would. If a library was pulling up outside my house now, even as an adult, I would love that. What are you imagining, Crane? What are you imagining? A brick building on wheels? No, I'm imagining a bus full of books, because I'm not insane. I like the panic of having to read your book because you know that the library bus is coming tomorrow. Oh, yeah, that's good.

And you might not be able to borrow it against, you know. Yes, we're trying to finish war of peace. Got to read Middlemarch now. Sorry, Izzy, I would help with the kids' bedtime. but yeah I have to finish as mit and men but yeah

that's so it does exist yeah they're still trundling around the bedford area I love that I'm very jealous if that's part

of your life second email once again punchy to the point I love it Justin Sweetman says oh what a treat recently we discussed

if we went back in time what food we would give people in the one day time machine to blow their minds a medieval peasant might give them

some harabo yeah example and they go what's going on star mix yeah oh no the sour one

tangfast sticks Wow. And then they turn inside out. I had this thought. I don't know if I discussed it at the time. What's the popping stuff? The popping candy? Yes. Oh, yeah. That would blow someone's mind. I think someone suggested giving popping candy to Hitler. I can't find that email, but that was one that came up. Genuinely, one of them does say that. This is not what this one is about.

Justin says, instead of going back in time to give food to humans in the past, I would like to go back in time to try their food. In this case, Dodo. There must be a reason they went extinct so quickly. Tasty little snack. Love the show, Justin. So Justin's going back to try Dodo for the first time. I actually know this. It's not very good meat.

It's not tasty at all. How do you know that? It's famously disgusting. I don't know how I know that. How old are you? Because I think that the theory was that it was overhunted for meat, but it wasn't. It just had no fear of humans. Oh, is that what it was?

So it was very easy to hunt for the sport of hunting it, yeah. But the meat was famously very tough, not really. very nice. So we were killing Dodo just because they were like whack-a-mole. It was just really easy to, is that what you're saying? It's a genuine question. Is that why you're saying they died out because they were so easy? Yes, I'm just reading it now. Go on, Elle. What's the actual info? Like many animals that evolved in isolation from significant predators, the Dodo was entirely fearless of humans. There's fearlessness and his inability to fly, made the Dodo easy prey, but predation by humans was not the main cause of extinction, contrary to popular belief.

Oh dear, yeah. So why did they go extinct? Well, the human population of Mauritius, when people sort of arrive, they introduced other animals like dogs and pigs and cats and rats and crab-eating macaques, which plundered dodo nests and competed for limited food resources. Oh! The same time humans destroyed the forest habitat of the dodoos, and the impact of the introduced animals on the dodo population,

especially the pigs and macaques, is today considered more severe than that of hunting. Oh, poor old doodles. That is so interesting. So what we conclude from this is that Justin would go back to taste the most innocent and inquisitive animal or a bird ever to have lived. That's what we're taking from all our listeners. Their main aim is to get in the one day time machine and find the most innocent animal ever to have lived and feast on it. They must be quite close to bringing a dodo back. Surely there must be enough dodo DNA somewhere for them to Jurassic parking.

We can't be far off that, surely. 2026 for God's sick. I found something on their extreme fearlessness. Dodo's had what scientists call island naivety, having never seen a predator. They did not run away or defend themselves. No. When humans or feral animals approached

and they were known to accidentally sell their own curtains in jumble trail sales. Dodo's only laid one egg a year. One Dodo would lay one egg per year. years. So, like, they were subject to significant egg predators, pigs, shipwraps, crab, eating macaques that had escaped from boats that humans had brought to the island. So they just ate, their eggs were very liable to getting eaten. According to BBC Wildlife Magazine, a biotechnology company called colossal biosciences is leading

the effort to... They don't sound great, do they? No, to resurrect the doodoo? Do you think anyone in that company said, should we rename this so we sound less evil? than colossal biosciences. They're trying to bring back a proxy version of the dodo through genetic engineering. Well, well, well, well, well, well, there you go. The poor old dodo. Justin loved to have a little taste. Oh, poor sod.

But maybe just didn't know what the dodo was like when that email came in. If anyone else has anything they want to send our way, are there any innocent animals that you'd like to try from the past? It's how you get in contact with the show. All right, you horrible look. Here's how you can stay. in touch with the show. You can email us at hello at oh what a time.com and you can follow us on Instagram and Twitter at oh what a time pod. Now clear off. It's funny with the dodo because I think

if most people were asked to name an extinct animal, I think they would say the dodo. Yeah, I'd agree. Why? I mean it sounds bad. Dodo PR is fantastic. If I could have got the dodo to the people who promote the dodo to promote my 2010 Edinburgh show, I mean, I'd be turning people away. Why is dodo PR so good? I've just thought as to why that is. Weren't there so early drawings from the people who went out as explorers and sort of did logs of all these things that were found on the Glappicus, etc, etc., etc. I've just got images of that bird standing out as quite a stark, different type of animal. I've seen lots of images of the dodo.

I think that might be one of the things it was recorded in that era of exploration. And that's why we think about the dodo a lot because they're in these textbooks, I think. It's one of those things that was brought back at images, amazed people in Britain and no longer exist. That's what I think, but it's based on nothing. I've been feeling bad for dodo since for at least 40 years. As a child, they probably got mentioned about once a month. If colossal bio-industries, whatever they were called, asked me to pick an animal to bring back,

Dodo probably wouldn't even make my top 100? Wouldn't you? Like the top 100 would be filled with dinosaurs and massive whales and megalodons. I'd love to see a mammoth. Well, you can. They find them frequently, don't they? No, no.

I mean, a real one that I could, you know. Then I'd make it smoke. Before we move on to the subject of this, A little quick test. When do you think the last confirmed sighting of a dodo was? 1850s. 1680. Which would be quite impressive.

1662. Oh, well done. Nobody has seen a dodo since then. The dodo PR has been firing for 400 years. A long time. Is it not more positive and heartwarming for us to cling on to the idea that there is still a dodo knocking around somewhere? He's just keeping himself to himself. He's a bit of an introvert.

Like Nessie. Yeah, exactly. Exactly, completely. In a tropical island somewhere, he's having a lovely time. We assume they're all gone, but no, he's fine. And if you do the Clapham Jumble Trail, you just might meet him. All right, we'll do get in touch with the show on that or anything else. Hello at oh what a time.com.

Now, on the show, as a special benefit to our top tier patrons, we will take the name of one, oh, what a time, all-timer, and figure out where in history this person may have been before. and we have a very, very Welsh name for you. This week, ladies and gentlemen, it's Atheon Jones. Last person to club a dodo to death. Just for the sport of it. Avion the dodo killer from Uppatavie, yeah.

Yeah, exactly. And it was in Abertavi as well, Al. He was just walking down the high street, the final one. Yeah, killed a Doda with a snooker. What was he thinking? He was the last man to see a Dodo alive, and also the last man to ever eat do-do egg scrambled egg.

Avion Jones, for me, it screams, farmer writes poetry on the side, has an absolutely delightful bass baritone voice, sings hymns when he's had a couple of drinks, there is nothing about Frisian cows that he doesn't know. I love that. I had one similarly,

also a Welsh farmer sort of link, but one who led an uproar in about maybe the 16th or 17th century, which was sort of quickly quelled, but it still talked about fondly. And he got sent to Australia. Yeah, yeah, and he died in Australia. Yeah.

Something to do with the price of corn. And he wrote a diary, and it's incredibly depressing. And he's like, oh, I was accused of a crime. I didn't come here. And now I live in Sydney, 10,000 months away to my family. But there's a small statue of him in Abergaverney. Don't speak the language. The last 30 years of my life would be actually awful.

I don't know here. Yours sincerely, Avion Jones. Died of a black widow by it 10 minutes after landing in Sydney. Yeah, because he had Ireland naivety. He'd never seen a poisonous spider before. And he's like, oh, I'm not scared of spiders at all. Pass the spider. There you go. There's your choices. So you could be someone who tried to start an uprising. It failed. You went to Australia. Or you killed the first toadour with your own hands. Or you're a farmer who knows loads about freezing cattle. Are your choices.

It's up to you. Not for us to decide. There you go. And if you want your name added to the Hall of Fame that makes up our list of oh what a time, all timers, then here's how you can do just that. Hello again, you horrible lot. Enjoying the show.

Well, why not show the love by becoming a Patreon supporter today? For a mere handful of farthings, you can get at free show two bonus subscriber episodes each month, access to all the past bonus eps, first dibs on live tickets, and even help decide what subjects the boys cover next. Your support makes everything possible, so sign up today at patreon.com

slash oh what a time or oh what'satime.com. What are you waiting for? Stop dawdling. Quick guessing game. When do you think that modern celebrity culture began? Heat magazine. When did that come out? 2004.

Maybe at a push, the wags when they went to 2006 World Cup. Can I ask for a question which just makes, just to drill down into what you're actually asking. When you say modern, I think the popularization of your reality TV show contestants, like them making careers. But then are you including the Beatles as someone who's experiencing that modern level of celebrity? I would absolutely include the Beatles.

I don't think that's modern though, is it? One of my favorite quotes about the Beatles is that Hunter Davis, he's the only person who've ever written the unofficial biography of the Beatles with his book of The Beatles. He used to be in charge of the Sunday Times or the Times gossip column. And he said before the Beatles came around, the Times gossip column would be about bishops. Like things that bishops had said. And then it was about things that Paul McCartney had done and John Lennon had said and all that kind of.

So I'm going to chuck 60s in as my answer. Well, it might be said that modern celebrity culture began, or at least its origins began in the theaters of late George in England. Oh, wow. Because, I mean, the comedians, they were, the actors in the French. style were called comedians in those days, even if they were doing tragedies and things. So I was slightly closer than, Chris. You went to the 80s, but it was actually Georgian England. The Beatles, sorry to go back to this point, but the Beatles had like unrivaleled admiration, you know, crowds screaming when they went to the US. But Admiral Nelson would

have had that. But he did have that when he arrived back in the UK. I'd say those two kinds of celebrities are very similar. People weren't screaming in the same way. It wasn't that high-pitched teenage squealing when Nelson came in on the show. I'm sorry, it wasn't the same as Beatlemania. But the idea of a lot of teenage girls waiting themselves with excitement because Nelson's turned up. It's not the same. Bubble from Big Brother 2, or whatever a number it was, that's a uniquely modern celebrity experience. This has got the actual answer. Let's see what he's got to say.

Okay, go on. I'll defend myself. Now, these, the comedians in late George in England, or the actors, which would be this more modern term, They were sore announced. They could spawn an entire material culture that's familiar to today. Tell all memoirs, keep sakes, endorsements, collected playbills. Amazing. There were like a scramble to own their images.

Also, novelists of the time, they were making references to these celebrities. Newspapers and magazines fill their pages with criticism to keep conversations and the gossip going. As today, like with, I don't know, the Kardashians or something, Certain families proved especially adept at navigating this new world of fame. Now, chief among them was the Campbell family. They were one of the centuries most famous acting households. Now, there was the Patriot Roger Campbell, who managed the Warwickshire Company of comedians based in Birmingham. So the company had been founded in the city in the 1740s by his father-in-law,

Roger's father-in-law, John Ward. So initially they performed at Ward's Moore Street Theatre, which opened either Bullring and 1740, which is Birmingham's first permanent theatre. But then the company went on the road. So they would travel on a theatrical circuit that extended as far as Brecon in Mid Wales where Tom and I have performed, which is, you know, 100 miles away from Birmingham.

So on tour to Brecon in the summer of 155, this is 260 years ago. Kenes, by the way, do you want to record that one line and say where Tom and I have completely blown the roof off? Do you want to just go down? Oh, yes, sorry. Yeah, yeah, just so people think.

I mean, Theatre Brechenyog in Breckenway, with Tom and I've completely blown the roof off. They were performing in Brecon. So in summer of 1755, Campbell's daughter, Sarah, was born in the upstairs room of a local inn called the Shoulder of Mutton, which is still there. What a great name for a pub. I think that might be the best name for a pub I have ever heard. The Shoulder of Mutton? I drove past, there's a Shoulder of Mutton in South London somewhere. I've driven past one.

That is brilliant. My mouth is literally open. But, I mean, we've all had children. We know the stress around labour. Imagine how stressed your wife would have been if you'd been like, right, okay, you've gone into labour. It's okay. There's a local pub and they've got an upstairs room. We can do it there. It's fine. We'll do it there. Now, her early life was spent in the family troops. It was no surprise that she wanted to pursue an acting career. Obviously, like all actors, her parents were horrified by this. So young Sarah Campbell's career took.

off in the 1770s. Now, from 1773, she married William Siddens, so she used a married name for her work, Sarah Siddons. So she trod the boards in London, the theatre Royal in Drury Lane, and the theatres Royal in Birmingham, Bath and Bristol. She toured in Leeds and York. But it was in the West Country that her career and her fame was made. She lived in Bath for five years from 1777 to 1782. Now, central to her reputation was her command of Shakespeare, especially the roles of Lady Macbeth. She was also great at Catherine of Aragon and Henry VIII and also, surprisingly, brilliant at Hamlet. So she played Hamlet with great success. So these were iconic performances. So in the theatre of the 1780s and the 7090s, it was a people spoke about her performances

in the way that they would talk about Lawrence Olivier's Richard the 3rd or Richard Burton's Henry V or whatever. Okay. No lesser figure than Jane Austen regarded Sarah Sitton's as her favourite actor. So this is... Wow. I mean, that's pretty... That's a big call, isn't it?

But Jane Austen to say she's the best. So they would have been living in Bath at the same time, I guess. I think Jane Austen lived in Bath as well. That's my... Because that's my hometown and they have the Jane Austen Museum there. I've never actually been in, but I assume that that means that Jane Austen lived in Bar. So when Siddon's retired from the stage in 1812, although she did, you know, Frank Sinatra-Stra, I'll have a couple of revivals later on. She was given a parting gift by the then-Prince regent and future King George the 4th.

So he gave her a gold-lacquered snuff box and it is of such a value as now part of the British Museum. So the person, you're George. That's such a special gift to give someone, isn't it? Yes, funny, isn't it? But the future King George the 4th had followed Siddon's career for years and made sure he knew where and when she was performing so that he might be able to go to the theatre to watch her. Wow. The fact revealed in his surviving papers, so his mother, Queen Charlotte, the wife of George III, also followed Siddon's career, telling her son who was then the Duke of Clarence and the future William the 4th. We'd talk about like her health would say, yes, there are Sidon's as hell.

Have you heard? Because they were just massive fans of this woman. She was such a famous actor. Now, there's no doubt that her fame was assured, especially because she had this royal endorsement. But interestingly, she manipulated her image, and that is key to understanding her longevity. She was an amazing manager of her own profile.

I suppose nowadays you'd say of her own brand. Yes. So she took very special care of her image, and what we would now think of as image rights. So Thomas Gainsborough, the famous English artist, he painted her portrait. Joshua Reynolds painted a portrait, Thomas Lawrence painted a portrait

to so many people saw portraits by Lawrence that novelists like William MacPis Thackeray and Charles Dickens and Oscar Wilde all satirised the sort of saturation of it. Like all these people like Oscar Wilde and Charles Dickens thought is a little gauche. Now the first one, which is like Gainsborough, showed her as a sort of Georgian regency-era lady, but like this model of fashionable feminine. and perfect for Jane Austen's bath.

So would these images have been hung in galleries for people to see them? Is that what do you think of what it would have been? Yeah. I assume so, yeah. But the Reynolds one focused on her as a kind of tragic muse and the pinnacle of a theatrical character. Okay. It was like a statement, basically.

She was saying, I am the greatest. So in a world of reproductions and prints and sketches and miniatures, these full-scale paintings were shrunk down, and they were copied and they were collected by fans of all types, including the royal family. It's like a poster, isn't it? It's basically like an early poster. Yeah, like a band you like.

Early smash hits. But you know when you used to go to HMV in the 90s and you go through all those and you put up? All the posters and the big rats. Yeah, it's that basically. It is essentially that, isn't it? It's radio head above your bed at university. That's what it is essentially. But her level of fame didn't subside in the years or even the decades after her death in E.

So her image and her life story was reproduced. So there was cigarette cards to collect. memoir's biographies and in the 1930s a centenary of her death was marked by a festival fund established in her birthplace Brecon in sort of mid Wales

so in nearly 200 years since her death and more than 200 years since she was at the height of her fame she's been memorialised in statues there are trains named after her on the London Underground the pub she was born in

has changed its name so it's now called the Saracidens Inn so it's no longer the shoulder of mutton It's no longer called the shoulder of the... That is categorically the worst decision that any pub has ever made. Yes, it's a shame, isn't it? We're only 10 minutes after saying it's the greatest pub name ever. It's gone.

Please tell me the sign at least says the Sarah Siton, open brackets, formerly the shoulder of mutton clothes brackets. I've had a drink in a shoulder of mutton pub, and I remember it being very rough in there. You do? I'm not worried about that. I'm not talking about the one in Brecon. I've had a drink in a pub.

Oh, there used to be one. there used to be one on the high street in Swansea. Okay. And it was a curious experience. So she was talented, obviously, and there was a great family background. But more than anything, there was this appetite for theatre and for stories. So she matched that popular demand. Genuinely fascinating and incredible, as you say, that 200 years later people are still celebrating it.

And it is that image. It's crucial, isn't that? That's what it comes down to, isn't it? the fact you control your brand. Managing your own brand. That's the important thing to do. Absolutely. So there we go.

That's the end of part one of celebrities. We'll be back tomorrow for part two. But if you cannot wait, if you need part two right now, go to patreon.com for us slash oh watertime or you can subscribe via your Apple podcast app. Otherwise, we'll see you tomorrow for part two of celebrities.

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