Oh What A Time... - #204 Celebrities & What Did a Dodo Taste Like? (Part 2)

Episode Date: October 19, 2026

This is Part 2! For Part 1, check the feed!This week we’ll be meeting some of the most celebrated individuals of their age. We’ve got one of the most popular actresses of the 1770s - Sarah Siddons, the most successful entertainer of the 1910s - Harry Lauder, and the absolutely huge comedy radio star of the 1920s - Tommy Handley.Elsewhere, do we simply just have too much stuff now? Would a 16th century lifestyle be better? Do let us know: [e-mail] if you want more Oh What A Time and both parts at once, you should sign up for our Patreon! On there you’ll now find: • The full archive of bonus episodes • Brand new bonus episodes each month • OWAT subscriber group chats • Loads of extra perks for supporters of the show • PLUS ad-free episodes earlier than everyone elseJoin us at 👉 patreon.com/ohwhatatimeAnd as a special thank you for joining, use the code CUSTARD for 25% off your first month.You can also follow us on: X (formerly Twitter) at @ohwhatatimepodAnd Instagram at @ohwhatatimepodAaannnd if you like it, why not drop us a review in your podcast app of choice?Thank you to Dan Evans for the artwork (idrawforfood.co.uk).Chris, Elis and Tom x Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Oh, Whatter Time is now on Patreon. You can get main feed episodes before everyone else. Add free. Plus access to our full archive of bonus content, two bonus episodes every month, early access to live show tickets and access to the O Watertime Group chat. Plus, if you become an O Watertime All-Timer, myself, Tom and Ellis, will riff on your name to postulate where else in history you might have popped up. For all your options, you can go to patreon.com forward slash O Watertime.

Hello and welcome to part two of celebrities. Let's get on on the show. It's time, gentlemen, to find out all about Sir Harry Lauder. Do you know Sir Harry Lauder? Is that name familiar? No, I don't. That's weird. I've heard that name, but I don't know who it is.

No, you're thinking of Estee Lauder. The makeup brand. No, I think of Harry Stiles. No, I'm actually thinking of my mother because I love my mum, okay? I do you feel I've heard this name. I don't know why. Genuinely.

Yes, Estée Lauder and Harry's styles. No. Harry Rednapp. Any of the Harry's. Tell me more about this person and I will then tell you if I have actually had. Okay. Well, he's got a claim to have invented the modern image of the Scottish stereotype, when you think of it as traditional Scottish dress, which we'll get into that.

Yeah, I've never heard of them yet. Maybe we should start by, okay, let's have a go at imagining. I want you guys to imagine your stereotypical Scotsman. And you want me to do this on a podcast that's being recorded and put out to people. I don't think this is very wise. You're very wise, very handsome. A bottle of buckfast. Why don't you describe your image, Chris?

Well, we've all seen train spotting. And we can distance our cells from it. Exactly, yeah. There's one of four different stereotypes. I prefer begby. No, what comes to mind, you might say, the kilt, imagine ground. Keeper Willie. The thick accent.

The tartan. Maybe a song, you know, having a song on board. That image of like the Highland Scotsman, like, deeply embedded that survive like Groundscipper Willie. I love this. As someone who's father nor was Scottish and my kids are eligible to play for Scotland, I'm distancing myself from Chris. Cockney Chris, London Chris.

What sort of thing is why, like, they're all fucking junkies. They've all got ginger hair. They wear a kiltz. I can't understand a word they say. And I'm distancing myself by just saying nothing. That's my approach. It's like buck fast.

All that crap. Deep fried haggies, deep fried Mars bars. Do you know I've met Irvin Wells several times? He's a big West Ham fan. Have you ever told you that? He sports Hibbs as us his Scottish team,

isn't it? I didn't know he's a West Ham. He's got Hibs in West Ham. Yeah. West Ham found a few West Ham gets with Irvin and Wales. But you saved yourself there, Chris. You chucked in the fact you've been doing a West Ham game with Irvin Welch. I was Scottish just turning back on.

Before you email it, some of my best friends are Irvin Welsh. But the point I'm trying to make, that image, the kilt, the accent, the tartan, the Hyland outfit, that image that has become so deeply embedded and is no doubt the inspiration behind Groundstkeeper Willie and the Simpsons. And the image that we see on shortbread tins and porridge boxes. He was oats when I was young. I remember having oats. As a child, there was a cereal where you had oat cereal. It was an oat brand, is that what it was called? Maybe I'm getting that wrong.

He was on the front. Well, there's also this quick, quicker oats. Maybe that's what I'm thinking of. He was stripped to the waist, doesn't he? Oak man, in my mind's eye. Maybe not. Well, anyway, all of this to say, a lot of that, a lot of this image came from Sir Harry Lauder.

That's how Sir Harry Lauder dressed. Now, why is that important? Who's Sir Harry Lauder? Well, Sir Harry Lauder, Harry Lauder, as him, he wasn't nice. immediately after being born. He was born as Harry Lauder in 1870 in Portobello near Edinburgh. His childhood was hard. His father died when he was still a boy forcing the family into poverty. By his early teens, Harry was working in a flax mill to help earn the money that would let him attend school. Because back then, it wasn't granted?

It's classic historical stuff, isn't it? Yeah. Absolutely classic history. Like, yeah, late 1800s. What you do? So he worked in a mill to earn the money. money to go to school. When he went to school, he comes out of school, where does he go? The coal mine. He might have stayed there. So he's working in the pits of Lanarkshire. Many people his age would have stayed working there for the rest of their lives.

But Lauder had an incredible singing voice and he could tell a joke. And in late Victorian Britain, they are basically the two most important, most valuable commodities in show business. Because the dominant form of popular entertainment was, of course, the music hall. Variety concerts were being held constantly in working-class towns across Britain and anyone who could sing a comic song and a hold a crowd could make a career of it, which is what Lauder did. So his performing career began in the mining communities around Hamilton in Lanarkshire. His comic timing and distinctive voice began to attract notice.

I think when you read the story of Sir Harry Lauder, there's definitely an element of the Beatles in Hamburg about this. Because of these mining communities, he was able to perfect his act. over hundreds of evenings and tough games performing to miners before he came down to London which might explain his success.

So would that be at social events he's doing that or this is a genuine question or do you mean down the mine he's singing them songs? Working men's clubs around these mining communities he's performing.

And of course I mean the Lanarkshire mining community I don't imagine there's a great buffet of entertainment available. There's probably Oh, here we go. He's going back in again.

More of Cockney. More of Cockney, Chris, is damning reflections on the Scots. Don't turn the Scottish against me. How's the theatre scene in one stead, Chris? I mean, there's nothing up there. It's what I like, I like the look of Scotland. But there's nothing up there. I couldn't live there.

What I mean to say, so Harry Lordo would on to be a brilliant, one of the best entertainers of his age. So he must have been absolutely smashing it, compared to the rest of the act. Well, I can say, and as Elle will attest, from doing lots of these gigs, in Welsh mining communities, there's incredible theatres that are paid for from mining. Don't try and get the Welsh to recite, Tom. When Ellis and I, well, no, when Alice still does stand up, but when I did stand up,

and at the same time as Elle was doing stand-up, but you play these beautiful venues around Wales, they were always paid for, the acoustic's incredible, but they always came from the money from the mining community. and it was part of the sort of the entertainment for the week of the people who worked in the minds. And there's those of them, aren't there? I mean, that tradition would have existed in Scotland as well. Exactly, yeah. Not that Courtney Chris cares about any of that. If it doesn't happen winning a square mile of Soho, he's not interested.

It's not culture. So Harry Laura, you're back in 1890. His comic timing and a distinctive voice really begins to attract notice. So as he approaches his 20th birthday, he was being described in the local press as a Scotch comic, which are a particular niche of musical entertainer specialising in Scottish humour. Within a few years, he was good enough. One review called him exceptionally clever. Up until 1890, he's in the pit and he's going entertaining in the evenings. In 1890, just after his 20th birthday, he decided he's good enough to become a professional, so he leaves the pit,

and he becomes a full-time singer-intertainer musical man. And through the 1890s, he expanded his circuit. So he moves from central Scotland into theatres in Northern England and Wales. And then 10 years after having left the pit, in 1900, he takes the law road south to London. Now, obviously, this is the cultural capital of the world. So this is where it's really a connection. Why am I playing into this idea?

Prémer-Mongue, Aberdeen Angus Steakhouse. Garfuncles. Yeah. Exactly. So London brought the usual pressure that comes to performers with strong regional accents. You either have to moderate it or you'll never get on. Lauder does an interesting thing. He kind of splits the difference.

So he doesn't ditch his Scottishness. He kind of polishes it. The accent he used for the rest of his career was a sort of carefully constructed stage Scots, close enough to feel authentic to English and American audiences. But basically, he softens it enough that you can understand him. So he's like university understood. So he's kind of, he wasn't quite real Scots, but what he ends up with is perfect music hall.

And the gamble pays off like almost immediately. So by his early 30s, Lauder becomes an absolute sensation at venues like Charing Cross Music Hall, the London Pavilion. In February 1902, he cuts his first gramophone record, the beginning of what would become one of the most lucrative recording careers

of the early 20th century. He would go on to become the first British artist ever to sell a million records. Wow. That's a great fact. Yeah. He wrote and performed, I Love Alassie, keep right on the end of the road, and I'd like to play now just a little section.

Let's hear a bit as Sir Harry Lauder. This is him singing, a Roman and the Gloming, and you'll get the sense from this, how he kind of really entered the national imagination and never really left. I sometimes myself, I know I've got to sing, There's Roman in the gloaming on the funny

Roman in the gloven way While I see by my side When the sun has gone to rest That's the time that we love it Oh, it's lovely Roman in the globe And loom And loom in the gloomy There's a loamy in the line

Romain is a loamy in the Lottie behind a child There you go is Sir Harry Lord of what you expected? To us, interesting, Sean of context, you can never respond like the audience of the time would have done. But he was so popular. Now, I wouldn't, my father-in-law was Scottish,

and I would be amazed if he didn't know that song. Because I reckon it's one of those songs. It's been like when you hear the Welsh songs from the so 20s and 30s. My grandparents still knew those tunes. He was a huge deal. So you can't say it's bad. It's just you don't understand it. in 2020. Yes. Yeah, yeah. It's so true.

You have to take my word for it that Sir Harry Lauder was like so incredibly popular that even people had careers off the back of being impersonators of him touring regional theatres. Amazing. Doing his act. I mean, that's interesting, isn't it? In 1912, he headlined the very first Royal Command performance, the moment at which British popular entertainment became officially endorsed by the monarchy. By this point... A famously hard gig. I've never met any anyone who's enjoyed it. Some of the best comics I've ever met, some of the most famous comics in the country,

wanted to quit after doing that show. So best of luck to Harry Lauder. So at this point, 1912, when he's doing the Royal Command Performance, he is arguably the best-known entertainer in the world. Now, this is, I find, this particular section I'm about to explain to you now. The best known in the entire world. Wow, good on.

I find this bit really fascinating. So concert venues could sell out shows that didn't even feature Lauder in person because he was interestingly a convert to new technology. So what would happen is they would play records with his image projected onto screen in concert venues. And these shows doubled as a showcase for the chromegophone, which is one of the earliest systems

for synchronising recorded sound with the projected film. So they basically play a record and sync it up with the image on screen. So Harry Lauder could do concert venues he wasn't even there for. And he was one of the first to do this. Wow. So is that a moving image or just a single image? or just a moving image of him. That's amazing.

Wow. And this is interesting. The amount of money he was earning, in 1908 he was being paid about 500 pounds a week, which is about 54,000 pounds a week in modern terms. He's a Premier League footballer in 1908. 1913, it's risen to 1,125 pound a week, about 116,000 pounds per week today.

Wow. When he went to the US, he was getting about $1,000 a night. So, you know, You can times that 116,000 by, yeah, seven, potentially. Amazing. What he's done there, Al, which is, as a stand-up, would be an incredible thing to be able to do, is he's franchised himself out.

Yeah, yeah. Which means he could be, so let's, basically, he's playing every club in the country. So we've got a situation where they're able to play him in on a record and have a hologram of him, it's the equivalent now. So you're not only doubling up, you're doing 400 gigs a night across the country, Al. Ellis James is being beamed into every pub upstairs room, the comedy store, you name it, theatre. Ellis is there. He's basic invented telly, isn't he?

Yes, years before TV. This is the point I was going to make, right? So in Lauder's lifetime, several things happened. New technologies, which broke the ceiling in terms of earnings for an entertainer all at once. So you had the gramophone record, which was established, that allowed him to sell records on an industrial scale. The other thing that happened is you had the steamship get invented, which made rapid transatlantic touring possible. You also had mass newspaper publicity. And when you add all that into the fact, he's getting paid a lot to turn up in person.

And he's doing these kind of Harry Lauder Voyage, Abba Voyage kind of holograph shows. You can comfortably say, I think there's a very strong argument that at his peak, Harry Lorder wasn't just the highest paid entertainer in the world. At that point, he was the highest paid entertainer who had ever lived. Wow. That's amazing. And I guarantee you, there are a lot of slightly older performers who are annoyed that he'd come to his peak just as all this technology he'd come to pass. They'd be going, it's unfair.

It's just his generation, you know, he'd just be livid about it. But it's a bit like George Forbeen, that in the 30s, George Formby was in. about a hundred grand a year, which, considering you from Wiggen, and it was the 30s, or the Great Depression and all that, it was an absolute fortune.

Yeah. And you see the footage of him, especially when he, like, would entertain the troops and things, he was loved George Flanby. And I must admit, there are so many stories

of performers who are ripped off, who are doing huge gigs, and everyone else was getting paid but them. This is particularly true, I think, of boxes. Boxes would often be, you know, you look at the gate receipts from the venue. And yet, once the box has paid everyone else off, the box actually doesn't, you know, earn a huge amount. And they're the ones getting punched in the face.

It's quite refreshing for the time that the entertainer actually did so well. Yeah. Yeah. So you put yourself into Harry Lord's shoes. It's 1913. You're absolutely smashing it. You are the highest paid entertainer. to have ever lived. It's 1913. You're loving it. What's in 1914? It's the First World War.

Bad news. And this is where it gets really sad. Lorde was a devout patriot. He threw himself immediately into fundraising. But in December 1916, the First World War stuck a devastating personal blow, which he never really got over, which is the fact that his only son, Captain John Lauder of the Argyle and Sutherland Highlanders, was killed in action shortly after Christmas. devastated Sir Harry Lauder. Heartbreaking. Absolutely heartbreaking. So what he did instead was work. He raised enormous sums for Scottish and Canadian troops,

especially those wounded on the Western Front. He was filmed working alongside Charlie Chaplin, who was running similar fundraising drives in the United States. All this fundraising resulted in the fact that in 1919, Sir Harry Lauder became Sir Harry Lauder. He was knighted. The first ever British entertainer to receive that honor in recognition of his wartime service.

Wow. After the war, again, Sir Harry Lauder, he's at the crest of the technology wave, he then moves into every new medium that appeared. So he broadcast concerts. He would have been huge on TikTok, Harry Lauders. Yeah. If Barrymore is huge on TikTok, Sir Harry Lauder definitely would have been. So after the First World War, he broadcasts concerts on the newly founded BBC.

He gave his voice to charity campaigns for the Scouts and for Edinburgh and Glasgow's hospitals. His records played continually on the airwaves from the early 1920s onwards, which generated enormous royalties for decades. In 1937, in a particularly surreal moment, the pioneering BBC TV service featured a marionette puppet of Harry Lauder

in a program about old-time musical. That's a real clash of kind of culture there, isn't it? The television set and musical culture. It feels like they're like millennia apart. There was a moment kind of where they interestingly crossed over. He also wrote too a volume of short stories titled Ten Tales in 1908 and two wartime memoirs, a minstrel in France, between you and me.

And all of this ran alongside his vast songwriting output. So it's a very strange kind of celebrity. He almost single-handedly, as I said at the top, created an exportable version of Scottishness because he obviously wore a kilt, tartan, lilt, licey, And all that reached across the English-speaking world. He defended the British Empire. He was deeply and publicly Christian.

He throughout his career, refused to perform on Sundays, except on tour in America, which he treated as a special exemption. And yet he always embraced recording cinema, broadcasting. I don't follow that for Monaster. Yeah, I know. Come on, mate. Yeah, the interesting thing, he just embraced every new technology that came away, and it ended up being enormously profitable for him. He was, in the most literal sense, from the pits of Lanarkshire to, appearing on TV, a self-made man.

I should really get into Snapchat. It's too late now. I've gone down Sir Harry Lorda wormhole today. He died in 1950, and there's actually, you can see on YouTube, but footage of the funeral on one of those British Pathet news reports, and there is such an outpouring of grief. It's hard to communicate now in 2026, how big a deal Sir Harry Lauder was 100 years ago.

When he died in 1950, Winston Churchill, the king, the queen, all paid tribute. The BBC broadcasts a special memorial program in which he was described as Britain's best ambassador for world democracy. Wow, that's amazing. Get that on the Edinburgh poster. Elle was subtly slagging off his singing a minute. It goes hard to believe, isn't it? God, I love that. The knighthood, the tribute, the record sales, the fact he shaped a stereotype of a whole nation. All of this came from a Lanarkshire pit boy who discovered he could sing a song and tell a joke,

which in the end is what the music is. hall was for. I'm trying to imagine the acoustics as well of him singing down the pits as well, not as a joke. I like the idea that he's singing to his colleagues as he's down there. I can imagine that's what's happening. I thought the entertainment to get you through the day, but the sound of it must be amazing.

The acoustics of those music, old musicalers are amazing. So if you go to somewhere like the Leeds City varieties, that perform there, absolutely brilliant. Yeah. So to begin with, Chris told us about Harry Lauder, who was, hey, that blows my mind. He was the highest earning entertainment. That's remarkable.

Yeah, at that point. At that point, but still incredible. He's been superseded since by Tom Crane, one of Britain's finest comedy rights. Of course, yeah, and then some, and then some. Tommy Handley, who I'm going to be talking about today, to you lovely boys, he doesn't achieve that level of wealth, but he is an insanely successful performer. To be exact, he's basically, he's the first big radio comedian, okay? And it's a remarkable story.

He's born in 1892. Are you familiar with Tommy Handley? You heard of Imel? No. This story is remarkable. It seems like someone I should be aware of because of his impact on the world of comedy. It's remarkable. But I hadn't. But everyone in Britain at that time had. Okay. Yeah. So unsurprisingly, the advent of radio in the 1920s is transformative in the world of comedy. It's just huge. It offers performers a fresh but very different avenue for their talents and a way, crucially, for a moment. much bigger audience to hear their stuff rather than just small theatres that they're dotting around.

And there's, once again, understandably, a scrabble to become the leading voice in radio comedy and radio in general. And this is where Tommy Handley comes along. He's a man who's born in Liverpool in 1892 as a young man, much like Harry Lauder, he discovers a talent for singing and he looks towards a career on the stage. But getting there is not easy. His father dies when he's just an infant. So for the good of his family and for help them make ends meet, essentially, Handley initially works as a salesman.

In fact, there's a more famous Tommy Handley in the 1910s, and that was a footballer. There was a well-known Tommy Handley, but it wasn't this one. I think about that. I think Tommy Handley is the most 1910-sounding footballing can possibly have. No, I've got another couple of you actually.

Okay, go on. I see your Tommy Handley, and I raise you, Bert Sproston. Is this a real person? They're a real person. And Wilf Copping. Perfect. Tommy Handley, as I say, famous footballer.

I've got to say this. Bert Sprosten, on an England trip to Berlin in 1938, Sprostin told Stanley Matthews, I know nout about politics and like, all I know is football. But where I see it, yon it lafella is an evil little twat. That's incredible.

I'm also imagining that sort of post-match interview against one of those advertising hoardings. Yeah, yeah, he's in the mix zone. Yeah, exactly. He says like Prettamanger, Shell or some of that behind him. He's having to go ahead. So Tommy Handy, okay, 1910, there's a famous footballer. Our Tommy Handley, though, at this point, he is not famous. He is working as a salesman.

He continues to do a bit of singing on the side, but really his main job, as I say, is in sales. In 1916, he chants his arm and he eventually turns professional as a singer, but he's not making much money. This is a bit of a risk in his life. And then during World War I, as is, it's a strange time. Once again, this comes up with Harry Lauder. The same with Tommy Handley here. The war offers him an opportunity that he probably wouldn't have got otherwise. It was a kind of a useful outlet for his talent during military service. Would you like to guess why World War I proved to be providential to Tommy Handley and his career as a performer. Was he performing for the troops?

Exactly. He's parted the Royal Navy Concert Party. So these would tour around and they would entertain the troops wherever they would stop. I mean, that is pressure, isn't it? Knowing that if you die in your ass, you're going to be sent back to the front line,

thinking, this really has to go well. Please laugh, please laugh. Yeah, God. Not risking any new stuff, El. I'm not going up there with a notepad going, let's test this stuff. If it's going badly, a general at the back of the room like slapping his whip in his hand.

Yeah. Oh, God. Send this guy to the phone. Or adding a little soldier figurines one of those massive maps that generals have. And you know it's you. Yeah, he's like, ha ha ha, ha, ha, ha. So Tommy Handley, he's doing these troop gigs.

And to be fair, they love him. And by 1918, he's attached to something called the Gayety Theatre in London, which is when we hear our first press reports of Handley as a performer. They praise him for his singing, for his humour, and he starts to tour the country. He's doing provincial theatres from there. Still, once again, not making loads of money, but his career is gaining some momentum. He's performing in places like Bogner Regis, and he becomes closely identified with one of the musical sketches of the time, one of the most popular ones, called The Disordinary Room, which is essentially a satire of military discipline during World War I. And as, as,

So many people had experienced that or heard stories of it. People loved it. And the press loved it. And this is when things start to get more interesting for Tommy, okay? The press are calling him irresistibly funny. They say he's able to keep the house in continuous laughter. That's a lovely quote. You want that hell, don't you?

Imagine that on the other proposter. Able to keep the house in continuous laughter. So much so that the BBC become aware of these reviews and they offer him a role in this newly invented broadcast medium. of radio, okay? However, it is not an easy task. And this is fascinating to me. Why do you think the first steps into radio comedy for these performers was not easy and actually was a bit of a disaster to begin with? I'm assuming the technology. It's not to do the technology at all. It's to do with the people. What, they're shouting too much because they're used to musicals?

No. So what it is is, it's a new medium and producers and productions were still thinking, in terms of stage and musical. And they hadn't taken the time to think about how you translate that information onto the radio. So there'd be a lot of visual stuff that just wouldn't read. That's quite basic, isn't it? And routinely, they would essentially directly transpose the stage stuff to the radio and not make tweaks. So these initial comedy performances, for genuinely the first 10 years, everyone was suffering with the same problem. None of it was really landing with the listening public.

Surely after the third gig. You're making shit. Ten years. How can you make the same mistake for a decade? It's a good point. Do they not do surveys? Maybe people, you know, people, I know, I work in radio. I don't listen to radio.

I'm just sort of, you know. I can totally understand the idea because comics have been doing this for a century. You do the best, that you do your best stuff, The most trying and sensitive stuff that's worked in front of audiences all over Britain. Yeah. That's the stuff you do first because you think, well, I know this works. It's a bit like when you do gigs abroad. I've done stand-up abroad a few times.

And on the flight, you think to yourself, okay, well, that's a reference to Gregs. I don't think they've got Greggs in Australia. Yeah. That's a reference to Stephen Mulhern. I don't know if he's famous in Australia. And you're like, oh, my God. But that first show, they just will have thought, I've done this stuff. Yeah.

hundreds of times. This is going to be okay. Absolutely. And I suppose you're surrounded by people who are also completely new to the field because the field didn't exist a couple of years ago. I'll tell you one thing, though, if you were able to do the visual stuff, the audience in the room would be laughing, and that could kid you into thinking that it was working on the radio. That's a good point as well. And also, if there's a laugh, they'll probably keep it in the edit. Yeah. Tricky situation, and it was a tricky situation indeed. He makes his radio debut as part of the Royal Command performance in 1924.

He then transitions to more regular programming the following year. However, as I say, it wasn't until the 30s that producers and comedy stars finally start to figure out how to make the most of this medium. But a long old wait for the listeners. And it's at this point that Hanley becomes part of a group of comedians all trying to properly embrace radio comedy, fully understanding how it should work. This group includes Rob Wilton, Oliver Wakefield, Jilly Potter, Leonard Henry. These are all the big names of the time.

Leonard Henry, incidentally, has the greatest claim to fame ever. Would you like to guess what his claim to fame is? This is a, to do with broadcasting. What do you think his claim to fame is? Is he the person that Lenny Henry chose his name from? It should have been. Any guesses, Chris? He's the first person to do something on the BBC.

Swear? No, not swear? Any guesses? I'll tell you what it was. It was the first person to blow a raspberry on the BBC. Oh, my God. Well, that's a form. of like profanity, isn't it?

Le Wachtine. Leonard Henry, I'll give you half a point in that case. I'd love that on my gradestone, first person to blow a Raspberry on the BBC. And then finally, in 1935, with the launch of his two-hander show, Mr. Mergatroyd and Mr. Winterbottom with co-star Ronald Frankow,

Tommy Hanley, he hits the big time, okay? This show leans into, and you can see why this is popular, the funny distinctions between Frankal, who played the old Etonian, and Handley, who played the Scouser. It's classic old school comedy and Britain absolutely loved it. It's the odd couple, posho, non-pocho, you know, to talk a story as old as time.

And it reached even greater levels of fame with a subsequent launch of That Man again, which is the show you got off the back of it. Are you aware of this? Yes, I read David Kinniston's book about Austerity Britain. I've read quite a lot of books about sort of, you know, Britain between the walls and things. So I'm, it may, it's that maligan, that comes up very often. Well, it was a hugely important show. Hugely popular.

Absolutely. Like, it's difficult to imagine how popular that show. Well, there's some incredible stats around this. So it's launched in 1939. It's a landmark BBC comedy show. And it's so loved that people say it was basically vitally important in keeping the spirits of the country up during the war. It had like a readable impact on people's mindset.

throughout the entire war. That's how much people loved this thing. It had beloved characters in it one of them was called Colonel Chimstrap. There was a character called, I like this one, one called Mona Lott. A bit of fun, isn't it? Mona Lott. And then she got married in McCain, Mona Little. There you are, a bit of fun. There's a Nazi spy called Funf, and it was the King's favourite show. He absolutely loved it. They did it in Wales. Well, Ella, I can tell you the story of why that was. Yeah, in Bangor. Correct. So during the war, the BBC's variety department, it's moving from studio to studio because it's trying to outrun the bombing. So it moves out of London to Bristol, then from Bristol to Bangor in North Wales, you say. So from that small outpost, the BBC broadcast a comedy show, which had at its peak. And this is a mind-blowing figure. 40% of the population tuned in every week to listen to it. I've been in the studio in Bunger where they should record it because it's a BBC bungal. Yeah, I did a programme. I made it. documentary by the history of Welsh comedies we were talking about,

It's That Man Again. How amazing. It was just so insanely popular. Yeah, yeah. It's incredible, isn't it? I think there were a couple of Welsh characters in it, that Manigan, actually. So millions upon millions, they regard this as essential listening. There are stage versions made of it throughout the war.

There's a film version made in 1943, making Tommy Handley, even more of a household name. But then, do you know what happens in 1949, L? one, I know, it came to an end. He dies. So he's 46. And he dies. And the show itself is pulled immediately. This massive show can no longer exist, because Hanley himself has died. And such was Hanley's level of fame that thousands lined the route to Golders Green Crematorium where the service was held. And the press remarked on the loss of the Liverpool boy who became the comedian to the king and the fireside friend of millions. Or as one Scottish newspaper put it, when the news of the sudden

death of Tommy Handley came over on the six o'clock news on Sunday the 9th of January, 1949. It clasped a gloom over many a household, for it is doubtful if in any other radio personality was regarded with such affection by millions of listeners. And that was, and is essentially, I suppose, the power and potential of comedy in its moment and the transformative capacities of radio when it was the universal medium. And it was at that time. Everyone was settled down to get their news, their entertainment, the family would gather around, listen to the radio. And without Handley and without It's That Man again, it's difficult to imagine of so many of the programs which followed him, from Carry On to Alo, Al-A-L-A-L-A-Dad's army,

all these shows were influenced by this show that was put together amongst the bombs during World War II. Incredible. And Luck may have played a part in his fame, but the result is perhaps best summed up in an anecdote about George the 6th. It was said that if the war came to an end when It's That Man again was on, the news would have to wait so the king could finish listening to his favourite show. That's how they described it. Have King loved it so much that if the war ended, you'd have to wait the final 14 minutes

to hear the end of the show and then I'll tell the nation. But that's amazing, isn't it? It really is the power of comedy, the power of radio and the power of, you know, laughter, I suppose, to keep the spirits of a nation going during its toughest time.

Yeah, it's, I've read a few books about Britain during the war, how ordinary people lived. And it always, always gets mentioned because it was just this phenomenon. What a fascinating trio of people. I don't mean us. I mean, the people are talking about.

If Netflix are listening and they go, we want to do a biopic of one of those three, what would you vote for? I think if Netflix are listening now, I think we could probably do three, a three-partner, actually, really. If the money's right, we could do a three-parter. Also, with that man again,

you've got the background of war. Yes. So that would make for a good bit of story. It's a great three-party. Carter, isn't it? It's naturally episodic, isn't it? Yeah, absolutely. Anyway, Netflix, get in contact. We're... I need to write the scripts for tonight's stuff, but again. So there you go. That is Celebrities. Throughout the past, thank you to our wonderful historian, Dr.

Darrell Leeworthy. His research is always fantastic. These are three people we'd not known about had it not for being for the wonderful Daryl. So thank you so much for that. And thank you to you for listening. If you want to become a Patreon fan, you can, can't you, Chris? Well, let me just shout out the fact that I've noticed that Fred Dibner's going a bit viral recently. Fred Dibner clips are always doing the rounds. And we've just done an episode on Fred Dibner. It's one of my favorite ever episodes. It's a video episode two. So if you want to see that, go to patreon.com forward slash a what time? If you want to see a man stood at the top of a chimney smoking a fag with absolutely no safety Flipped equipment whatsoever

And then flicking that fag butt Down the middle of the timonies About to destroy Then it's the podcast for you It's insane essentially The bravery of the man It's completely mind-blowing And that episode is available for you now

If you sign up to the Patreon Anyway, we'll see you guys very soon Whatever way Absolutely, yeah Have all history very soon Thank you very much to listen Goodbye Bye

Bye bonus episodes every month, early access to live show tickets and access to the Oh What a Time group chat. Plus if you become an O Water Time All-Timer, myself Tom and Ellis will riff on your name to postulate where else in history you might have popped up. For all your options, you can go to patreon.com forward slash oh water time.