Oh What A Time... - #23 Christmas

Episode Date: December 18, 2023

Get the decorations down from the loft and pop the tree up, because this week we're talking about: Christmas. We'll be covering the interesting history of Christmas traditions; from Carols to Decorations and did Coca-Cola invent Santa? Plus subscribers will get the famous 4th part which this week looks at the Christmas truce in World War 1 and which team triumphed in the game of football in no man's land. **WARNING FOR PARENTS: This features some very grown up chat about Santa, so maybe not one to listen to in ear shot of any kids** We've got a whole host of festive features for you to get involved with, from ONE DAY TIME MACHINE to BLOW SOMEONE'S MIND IN 500AD. If you want to get in touch with the show, you can email us at: [e-mail] And seeing as it's Christmas, why not treat yourself and become an Oh What A Time: FULL TIMER? In exchange for your £4.99 to support the show, you'll get: - the 4th part of every episode and ad-free listening - episodes a week ahead of everyone else - a bonus episode every month - And first dibs on any live show tickets Subscriptions are available via AnotherSlice, Apple and Spotify. For all the links head to: ohwhatatime.com Aaannnd if you like it, why not drop us a review in your podcast app of choice? Oh and please follow us on Twitter at @ohwhatatimepod And Instagram at @ohwhatatimepod And thank you to Dr Daryl Leeworthy for his help with this week’s research. Thank you to Dan Evans for the artwork (idrawforfood.co.uk) And thank you for listening! We’ll see you next week! (Or get next week's episode now if you fancy subscribing!!) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Before the episode begins, this is a parental warning. This episode features a very frank and grown-up discussion about the origins of Father Christmas slash Santa Claus. So consider this a warning. Don't listen with little kids around. I know you probably wouldn't anyway, but hey, there's the warning. It's out there now. Let's listen to the episode hello and welcome to oh what a time uh the show that tries to work out if the past was as rubbish as it seems i'm tom crane Crane. I'm Chris Gull. And I'm Ellis James. And this week, we are talking about Christmas. Yay!

Merry Christmas, everyone. Come in and let me see you better, man. That's Christmas Carol, by the way. That's not just a weird sentence. I was trying to think of a Christmas Carol quote, and I couldn't think of one off the top of my head you boy what year

is this but then we're clearly in synergy and I couldn't do it but you could finish it off Tom I initially had Tiny Tim who did

not die which is from a Muppets Christmas Carol actually but that's a good thing that's a nice moment yes absolutely he did not die

it was a nice moment Chris you're wearing a Christmas jumper I am you're getting into the swing of it A West Ham Christmas jumper

That no one has referenced So far This morning But yeah I love a Christmas jumper We are West Ham Christmas Mixing love and hate

That's what I'm looking at A West Ham Christmas Two battling emotions I refuse to get involved In Christmas jumpers Now you've never worn one? No I've been made to wear one on occasion for various content producing reasons.

So I was once competing in a Christmas quiz alongside Naga Manchetti and Adrian Childs and a choir. And I was made to wear one then. And I did so grudgingly. And as soon as we stopped recording, it was for Five Live, I instantly took the jumper off and I said, never, ever, ever again. You brought a can of petrol with you, poured it on top. Never, ever, ever again. Do you want to give a

quick sort of edited version of the correspondence between Chris and you this morning? Re the Christmas jumpers, obviously not using the word you used. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He said, oh, because we're doing the Christmas episode today, it's being filmed, should we all wear Christmas jumpers? And I said, no, because I'm not a, and it was the worst word the English language has to offer. The kind of word that if you hear your kids say, you think I have failed as a parent. It begins with C and it's not Christmas.

It's not Christmas. We should talk about what we're talking about this week, which is the origins of Santa Claus, history of christmas carols why we put up christmas trees and there's a fourth part which is one of my favorite christmas tales the christmas truce in world war one which subscribers will get as ellis has mentioned we are in filming this in real life we're in the same room today yeah first time first time recording this podcast in the same room we're at the spotify offices and let me tell you it is like recording at nasa it is so modern we've all we each one of us has got a microphone yeah our own microphone we've all failed to make a cup of tea i've been locked in the toilet they have a name the right

pass they have a fridge with uh kombucha with cbd oil in it a A full fridge of free... I mean, it's not my sort of drink. I went for water. But if I was that guy... Oh, yeah. I love it. An alternative dimension. Hippie Tom is out there now. Oh, imagine Hippie Tom in California.

Fifth CBD kombucha of the day. Tech bro in his bare feet. A chilled out pod pod that would be. Oh yeah. So, as you say, there is an extra subject at the end of this episode for people who want to subscribe. If you do want to subscribe,

what else do you get, Chris, very briefly? Ad-free listening, a bonus episode every month, the fourth part of every episode, and episodes a week early. If you want to get involved you can go to owhattime.com to see your options or on another slice apple and spotify but go to owhattime.com to sign up and get become an owhattime full-timer and get the maximum version of this podcast can you repeat all of the benefits but we'll do it like you're announcing the team lineups at a football match. Okay, we've got ad-free listening.

Hey! Bonus episode every month. Hey! Extended fourth part in every episode. Hey! And episodes a week early. Hey! It only costs £4.99.

Ooh! £4.99, an absolute bargain. So today we're going to be talking about Christmas. We've got a good episode. Are you feeling Christmassy or how are you feeling? Yes, presents have started to be purchased. The weather has turned. You're doing this like a football manager

at a pre-match press conference. How's training been this week? Yeah, it's been good. Presents have been purchased, weather's turned. Kids are excited. And ultimately, when it comes to your Christian holidays, your Easter's, your Whitson's, your Palm Sunday's, this is the big one, isn't it? Yeah. So, a bit of correspondence, do you reckon, to kick things off?

Let's have some. Okay, let's see. Right. Last week, we were talking about ellis and his henry hoover okay so we've had an email here from jeff williams hi jeff he says hi chaps love the podcast oh thanks jeff your chat about henry hoover was the peak of the podcast so far for me there you go so not the history stuff just the chat about the fact that henry hoover is president is that jeff.williams at henryhoover.com? It is, yeah. Very red face, smiley guy.

If you were to do a special on the history of Henry Hoovers, I don't know how we're saying that for an hour, but I like the idea, you could add the Royal Navy to the long list of prestigious long-term users of Henry. Quite an endorsement from the needlessly anal institution where cleaning is still used to make work for idle hands. Many mess decks have been sucked clean by Henry in the past. So he's saying that the Henry Hoover is the Hoover of choice. That's a good Hoover.

It is. Well, for the Navy. Yeah, apparently so. Which is testament to Henry's work ethic and resilience, given the amount of shit, piss and vomit. Unpleasant. Shall I change that to something nicer? No, OK. That must have been absorbed by those

carpets over the years henry is also used as a tool for punishment among the junior rates in the mess decks long gone are the days the cat are known nine tails so here's a story one of the ships that i stayed on i stayed in a 42 man mess we were quite a boozy bunch resulted in many discrepancies ashore or in the safety of the ship and away from official punishments one of the best methods of retribution was to be duct taped to a table in the mess okay any idea where this is going uh disrobed and then with just the plastic tube of a henry hoover have your willie hoovered for up to a minute at a time a minute much hilarity ensued but the noise was curious as it sounded like the driest possible fart I would love to say that it's the worst place

sailors might have put their penises but sadly that's not likely to be the case I have since left the Navy but long for those days Geoff what's happening in your life now

that you long for the days when you were strapped to a table and a Henry Hoover was gaffer taped gaffer taped so a couple of questions here first thing

there's been thoughts on the fact that Henry Hoover is the choice of Hoover for the Navy. And secondly, the threat of being gaffer taped to a table. Imagine if you were under attack. Yeah.

And I don't know, you're crouching under a table. And you look to your left, there's just a smiling Henry Hoover next to you. You think to yourself, this isn't... I would think, well, it's not all bad. Henry's loving it. Yeah. A lovely little smiling Hoover. To the Chinese, to the Russians? Do they use Henry?

No. Maybe they have a different type of Henry hoover where you can swivel the face depending on what's happening at that point.

So if they are under attack you can swivel it and suddenly Henry looks slightly more concerned. So it's kind of giving the vibe that it should be felt on

the ship at the point. What instead of like a red alert bulb you would have a Henry hoover that everyone could see. How's Henry looking?

He's worried. All right. I do agree. He doesn't seem like a serious enough Hoover for a battleship, does he? No, you'd think

they'd go Dyson, but it's very expensive, obviously, cutting costs. Exactly. And thoughts on being strapped to the table thing and having your bits?

I just think mine would come off. But also, those kind of 18th century maritime punishments are infamously horrific so now if you you know if you put a foot wrong and you're getting sucked off by henry the hoover that's not that's that's i mean if it's if it's either or yes the whip or henry the hoover but

you know i mean in any other workplace you'd go to hr wouldn't you okay next bit of correspondence as it's a christmas one it would be remiss of me to avoid um reading this one out here uh this is from a chap called alex it says dear tom chris and ellis after extensive research i'm happy to say the nativity in my house now contains a coffee table it appears mary and joseph have hopped onto it to keep their precious bundle away from the camel sheep and donkey photo attached so there's an image of his little wooden nativity scene. And in the middle of it, sure enough, there's a tiny coffee table on which Mary and Joseph have hopped on with their little baby. Do you want to explain why we're talking about this, Al?

Well, because whenever we discuss One Day Time Machine, the greatest feature in the history of world podcasting, the idea behind it is that you're able to go back to any day in history, any day of your choice. But I questioned this. I was like, in what sort of situation? Because are you a person? Are you a ghost? Are you a person

that fits into the time? Are you a coffee table? Are you an inanimate object? Are you a pair of pre-cut wedgie pants? What are you? What are you an inanimate object are you a pair of pre-cut wedgie pants what are you what are you what is the scenario we're discussing so people have really they've jumped on board with this the amount of emails we get from people saying oh yeah well i would love to be um i would love to be a coffee table but in florence in about 1500 or yeah in I'm an Aboriginal coffee table in Australia about 10,000 years ago. So it's very good to see that the coffee table

has now finally inhabited the nativity scene. Yes. Pre-coffee, it would have just been a table, wouldn't it? It wouldn't have been a coffee table. That's what people refer to it, just as a table. You go back to Bethlehem, yeah, no one's drinking coffee.

There's no prep knocking about. Yeah, exactly. There we go. That's from Alex. He said, it appears your time machine worked perfectly great work team thank you alex for sending that in uh appreciate that especially for this christmas show here's how the rest of you can get in touch with the show all right you horrible lot here's how you can stay in touch with the show you can email us at hello at oh what a time dot com and you can follow us on instagram and twitter at oh what a time pod now clear off it's a new day how can you make the most of it with your membership rewards points? Earn points on everyday purchases. Use them for that long-awaited vacation.

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All right, so we've got a Christmas episode for you. This week, I'll be telling you the origins of Santa Claus. I'll be talking about putting up trees. And I will be talking about the history of the Christmas carol. So, a bit of context. You guys know this, but let's just cover it for listeners. I'm the right person to be discussing this because I was the head choir boy of Bath Abbey Choir,

which meant for Christmas for me was nine lessons of carols. I'd sing that Christmas Eve. On Christmas Day, two carol services. Go in in the morning, come home, have lunch, eat my presents. Very confused child. Very strange, rough diet. And then back to church for the

second service. So was your voice breaking a big deal? Yes, it was. Well, Was it a career ender? Was it like an ACL in the 70s? I remember Ali Jones discussing his voice breaking on like Pebble Mill or something

because obviously he was the most famous boy soprano in Britain and his voice broke and then he still carried on singing but he didn't have Yeah, he was never the same. He was never the same player. He didn't have that pace anymore. But for him

it had to change his game. There was more of a financial impact because he was releasing singles that were going to number one. He's also not the singer on the single. What? Whereas he's not, that's a good point. He's not the singer on the single. What, on Snowman? Yeah, yeah. Everyone thinks it's him and it's not. It's Noddy Holder. It's not, that's a good point. He's not the singer on... What, on Snowman? Yeah, yeah, everyone thinks it's him and it's not. It's Noddy Holder. It's not.

So I got paid £12 every three months to sing in Barthabby Choir. That's not enough. Rehearsing Tuesdays, Fridays, two services on a Sunday. That's not enough. £12 every three months for four, eight, twelve, sixteen shifts that is a month. So sixteen times three all together now is thirty-six, twelve, I can't shifts. That is a month. So 16 times 3 altogether now is 36, 12. I can't work it out. 48.

It's less than a pound a session. So there you are. And didn't you record an album as well? I just remember. I did release albums, yes. And that album is on Spotify? That album is on Spotify. That's by a chap called Adrian Snell.

I can't remember what the album's called, but you can look that up. I also did the Songs of Praise Christmas Special that's my other big What year was this? That was in about 1992 and I had to walk down the middle

of the I had to walk down the middle of the Abbey the Abbey being 2,000 people in there, filmed for Songs of Praise with this little candle at the start of the service and I kept laughingbey being 2,000 people in there. Film for songs of praise. It was a little candle at the start of the service and I kept laughing and I kept blowing out the candle. And they kept going, right, we need to reset the shot.

Come on. And they'd reset the crane. Everyone would have to go back. And after about the fourth time... Reset the crane. That's what they called you. People were genuinely annoyed. Couldn't stop laughing. Couldn't stop blowing out this candle. Anyway. When we started doing stand laughing, couldn't stop blowing out this candle. Anyway.

When we started doing stand-up together at the same time in Cardiff, all gigs must have been an enormous anti-climax. Yeah, absolutely. Because you performed to 2,000 people. When you've ripped it up to 2,000 middle-aged white people. When you've ripped it up to, I'm surprised, 1992. That would have been watched by millions. Yeah.

You know, a four-channel age on the main channel at Christmas as well. That would have been watched by millions Yeah A four channel age On the main channel at Christmas as well If you're going to watch our songs of praise It's going to be the Christmas one isn't it They cut out me blowing out the candle by the way By the time it had gone to the edit and gone to air That had been removed I would be able to find that on the BBC reader

You probably could And if you do send it to me Oh wow we've got to get it That's one for the Instagram feed if you to me. So that's my background. Oh, wow, we've got to get it. We've got to get it. That's one for the Instagram feed if you can get it. Indeed. So that was my chorister background. But the history of Christmas carols obviously goes way back before my time.

They were a long time ago. You invented the carol. I did not invent the carol. Although a lot of people who watch that programme probably assumed that kids have probably been instrumental in the carol's invention. So I'll take you back to the beginning. The carols were first sung in Europe thousands of years ago, but these initially weren't

Christmas carols. They were pre-Christian pagan songs sung at the winter solstice at celebrations such as Saturnalia, which honoured the agricultural god of Saturn and is said to be the source of many of the traditions we have for Christmas now, such as wreaths, candles, feasting and gift giving. We've got a wreath up.

Have you really? On the front door. Oh, nice. It's a very classy touch, actually. Is it the same wreath every year? Or a new one? I would have to ask Izzy that. I don't know.

I'm not in charge of wreaths. But every time I see it, it's been up since December 1st, I think to myself, that is a classy touch. When you returned home, how involved in the wreath purchase were you? Was it a situation where you came home from work and you went,

oh, we got a wreath. Not even that. I assumed I'd walked to the wrong front door. And checked. And went back out to the street. It was like, no, no. Hopefully this is something in my house. Family laughing and joking in the front room.

Oh, they're so lucky. What a lucky family they are. God, they seem to be nice and sorted, aren't they? So historians believe that these old midwinter songs were basically written and exist to keep up people's spirits during the hard winter months. So Ellis, to give you an idea,

you're living in a mud hut in Wales in medieval times. It's so cold your breath is freezing the moment it hits the air. Yeah. How much is the promise of singing a little carol going to pick up your spirits during those long months? Nowadays, not at all. But I can imagine it working. Especially if they're religious,

because you've thought that there was a higher power at work, at play. And I think that people got a lot of comfort from that. I mean, as a slightly cynical man in 2023, not good enough. And if our boiler broke last winter and if Izzy had said, it's fine, we can just sing carols until the plumber turns up, I'd have been like, we're not going to be doing that though, are we? You know, I feel like people write pop songs now specifically for Christmas, because they know if it's decent enough, it'll get airplay all over the world every year. Do you think that was the case even back then?

If you've got a really good little tune on your hands here, don't just make it a generic hymn. Save that bad boy for Christmas, because that'll be in the churches here. The Noddy Holder approach. Noddy Holder has a great January. This is pre-PRS. When the Czech clears. This is pre-PRS.

When was PRS? This was pre-Christmas celebrations. So these were carols that were non-religious, related to solstice, celebration, all this sort of stuff, or maybe the god of agriculture, but they weren't Christian carols. So this was kind of the initial form that carols had until the 14th century when Franciscan friars produced the first Christian carols. So these were the first carols to sing about jesus and his birth but even these carols weren't like what we hear today so they were monophonic

which meant that they only had one melody song melody line there was no harmony whatsoever just everyone sang the same tune at the same time they could be attached to any season so they had may carols harvest carols they weren't christmas carols like that. They were just winter. They were seasonal carols. And the big one, this is a big difference. Much like the pagan carols of old, they were performed as part of a dance. So everyone would link hands, stand in a circle, and dance around in a circle while singing the carols.

I'll be trying to work out if I'm sad that that's gone from Christmas carols today. I think I'd need a few sort of goblets of communion wine to really get into it on Christmas Day, if I went to church or whatever. Or would you find it mortifying? Well, we used to do country dancing at school. Yes. Dance your guerrine, which is folk dancing in Welsh. Did you used to do that at your school?

I did, yeah. We've talked about this. I was a fool. Did you do it at your school? Do did, yeah. We've talked about this. I was a fool. Did you do it at your school? Do you think they did country dancing in East London? Do you think they did any kind of performative dance? No. Did you do break dancing?

No, we had a winter's run. What was a winter's run? You had to do cross country. Yeah. That was the big thing in January. Marshy, freezing, wearing a rugby shirt. It was awful. I hated country dancing. And there you are, just dancing. yeah like every that was the big thing in January marshy freezing I was like wearing a rugby shirt it was awful

I hated there you are just dancing as to why these dancers died out I did some research and this made me laugh there's a guy called

Professor Ronald Hutton who's an expert in this era he just simply believes that people got bored with it that's all he's written that's all he

that is people just got bored of the dancing that's why it stopped but I like that because it's just a human thing we don't do that anymore that was rubbish it was rubbish then

it's rubbish now and we're going to stop so these carols soon spread across Europe to France, Germany, Spain other European countries they first appeared in English in 1425 in a text by John Audley a Shropshire

chaplain who lists 25 carols of christmas probably sung by uh groups of wassalers who went from house to house now wassalers were the original carol singers yeah i love a good wassail yeah well get this when i was a child i was in bath i'd be quiet every Christmas Eve I would go Carol's singing Just me Just me and my next neighbour Miles And Miles was on his tuba It was just the two of us So it was me And a tuba Knocking on people's door

You can barely hear me It's so loud So loud Right by my ear. Just like genuinely startled. Oh, God, they're back again. Wind instruments are so loud. So loud when you're near them.

And the tuba is the loudest of them. I was at university with a bloke. And his girlfriend, when we were in halls, left him. He'd already been going out with her for a couple of weeks. He was a bit upset, a bit miffed. But he saw the funny side. He was a trumpeter. Yeah. He went outside her room and he played the last

post. But it's only when you're in a sort of corridor, a halls of residence, you realise how loud a trumpet is. Well, two with a double trumpet. Of all the things to play. The love books.

The death and our love relationship. Was that when they split up, did you say? By the reign of Elizabeth I in the 16th century, carols started to get more sophisticated. They were no longer monophonic. They started to include harmony. And important composers like William Byrd, who is considered one of the greatest composers of the Renaissance,

he wrote songs for Christmas such as... What's that, sorry? Billy Byrd. Billy Byrd. He wrote Carol for Christmas in 1589. And Thomas Tallis, you may have heard of Thomas Tallis. He was an important composer. He wrote the polyphonic Christmas Mass

for religious performance around the same sort of time. And things were really starting to gather pace in the carol world. Things were getting, you know, it's a hot time. And then suddenly, and this is a big but, in 1647, the Puritans came to power in England. Christmas was banned and the singing of carols was banned. Mad. Suddenly, at a point that carols, people were getting into them. All of a sudden, the Puritans came in under Cromwell and was like no no more of that no christmas no carol singing um how do you feel

about the idea that christmas just suddenly being banned explaining that to your kids going by the way you know you know you thought you were about to get presents i couldn't even joke about it i'll try it tonight i'll say do you know they banned christmas and then the joke will fall flat and then i'll pretend I never said it. It's one of those few lessons I vividly remember from school, being told that Cromwell banned Christmas. And being a kid and going, what? I mean, there's loads of reasons to dislike Cromwell,

but that one sticks with me. What kind of dickhead are you? Ban Christmas? Imagine that. You know the best time of the year? That's gone now. That's gone. And I'm also bunning barbecues in the summer. Okay, spirit of

full disclosure, we're recording this on December the 6th. Question for you both. Have you got your trees up? Yeah, I would go late November, but do you know what my brother-in-law does? He cling films his Christmas tree on like the 30th of December, wraps it all up with the decorations in place.

It's fake one, obviously. Gets it down from the loft, uncling films it, and it's all done. And every year he posts it on Instagram like, look what I've done, I've saved myself half an hour. That is one of the most loveless things I've ever heard in my entire life. It's not

the spirit of Christmas. The thing about putting the decorations on the tree is the act of doing it is Christmassy. Yeah, microwavable meal on Christmas Day. My dad was always trying to save money, just constantly, in every part of his life. Two Christmas trees that stick in my mind. One, we had a fir tree in our garden outside, and I woke up one Christmas about a week before, and the top of the fir tree was missing. It'd gone.

So rather than coming to a point, it just stopped midway through, and dad had just gone out and just chopped the top of the fir tree was missing it'd gone so it rather than coming to a point it just stopped midway through and dad had just gone out and just chopped the top of the tree and then went downstairs and sure enough that was in the bucket in the corner of it now and the other one was when to save money he bought he just cut down some holly a massive holly bush from the garden and put that in the corner for christmas for our christmas tea and it was genuinely painful getting our presents i remember trying to go under and get... And like... Ow! Oh!

Like, people... Pain. Having to reach under, just getting prodded, poked in the eye, and just horrendous. Generally unpleasant Christmas. You had to decide whether you really wanted the gift or not, whether it was worth it. Knowing the standard of gifts that my family would give,

it's like, do I really... Am I going to risk going under that? And the first present was some gardening gloves. Yeah, yeah. Well, that was the last present. Yeah, absolutely. It was a nightmare. The peak of domestic Christmas decoration

was in the early 1990s, when every bit of the living room, the hall, it was all decorated, very tinsel-based. I actually think tinsel's gone slightly out of fashion. Yeah, the hall, it was all decorated very tinsel based. I actually think tinsel's gone slightly out of fashion. Yeah, it has actually. Absolutely. I love it though. I'm a fan of it. I really like that sort of old school nostalgia. I like the cheap Essex-y Christmas decorations.

Like in my family home when I was growing up, it'd have those little tinfoil Christmas decorations that would hang from the ceiling and form a nice little pattern. And the really cheap tinsel that sometimes fly off and get in your mouth. What do you have on the top of your tree? Fairy. Oh, classic.

Like quite a naff-looking fairy. And everyone I knew growing up had naff-looking fairies. Yes, it was a fairy, I think. We have whoever the current Prime Minister is. Which I think is respectful, really. Whoever they are, whether you agree with them politically, they're doing their best for the country. Because, you know, when I think of the early 1990s,

I was 10 in 1919. Yes, that's absolutely how I remember it. There was actually a street in Carmarthen where every house, like in this instance, would, the works outside on the roof. Yeah, I love that. People would turn up. There were collection boxes,

mainly to pay for electricity bills, not to go to charity. It was great. It was lovely. And, you know, the silver Christmas tree as well, rather than the green one. That's something I remember. Fake snow.

Some people getting involved. Yeah, tins of fake snow. Fake snow on the windows, the works. But that's very much a product of post-war Christmas habit. So you did have early examples appearing of Christmas decorations in department stores in the 1930s,

but the austerity of the pre-war and war years put widespread take-up on hold. Because people were skint, so they couldn't afford to completely decorate their houses. Interesting. So it was far more austere, it was far more low-key. So the 1920s had seen multicoloured paper streamers and pop-up paper

Christmas trees put in the middle of the dinner table, but nothing quite as fanciful as you've got after the war. But this was all a far cry from the concept of Christmas decoration that prevailed about a century earlier, when holly, when you're hollies, you're ivies, and you're mistletoes, were the mainstays, and those caught cutting down too many holly trees to sell at a market

were liable to arrest and prosecution. Oh, really? Got to say this, straight off the bat. Mistletoe is creepy. What do you think? Isn't it poisonous? If you're taking mistletoe to a party, you are bad. Do people do that still? I think they definitely did.

Have you ever had a kiss under mistletoe? No. No. I think I have once. Oh, yeah? Yeah, at a Christmas party. Oh, yeah? With?

I was about 22 or something. No. I think I have once. Oh, yeah? Yeah, at a Christmas party. Oh, yeah? With? I don't know. I was about 22 or something. What, like a kind of Christmas movie? Like, oh, there's some Miss Latosha, shall we? Yeah, it was a bit like that. Yeah, yeah. I think it was someone I was dating. Was she a big fan of Songs of Praise?

It was Songs of Praise rap party. Yeah, yeah. It was at the Groucho Club, actually. London's West End. It was coincidentally there. We hadn't taken it. I wasn't sort of thinking, oh, I'm planning to enjoy the opportunity.

No. Oh, right. It was probably an underwhelming festive house party. But it was there and we thought, oh, we'll have a little peck. Nothing too much. Just enough. No tongues.

Was it tongues? Well, yeah, I don't know. I guess so, knowing me. As is my way. I've got a verse. Obsessed with kissing. Kissmas, I call it. If you go round to Tom's over to Christmas,

there is mistletoe absolutely everywhere. Yeah. And he's like, oh, look at that. There's a bit of mistletoe there. No, we're not kissing. There's a dumpster, there's a toilet in the attic. Nowhere is safe. You open the fridge to get the milk out,

there's mistletoe dangling in there. Nowhere is safe. Exactly. There's 3,000 pots of lip salve. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And there's mistletoe everywhere. Above the cat litter. There's mouth,000 pots of lip salve Yeah, yeah, yeah Above the cat litter Mouthwash everywhere Now, talking about

cutting down too many holly trees to sell at a market One man from Brentford was sent down for three months for exactly this in 1819 And for decades the Met Police were tasked with protecting gardens

at Christmas time from those with a pair of secateurs and an eye on taking some trimmings. Can you imagine that? Wow, three months. What? What? Tree thieves?

There must have been people going up to the Met Police saying, have you not got murders to solve? Yeah. Arresting the holly thief over there, putting him inside. Does it say how many he'd cut down for that three months? Unfortunately not. No, okay. That's remarkable though.

Now, the Christmas tree, usually a fir, which is now such a central part of domestic winter decoration, didn't begin to become popular in Britain. Guess what? Until the second half of the 19th century. Wow! Again, much later than I'd anticipated, as the aristocracy,

the middle classes, and finally the working classes all adopted the habits and the traditions of the royal family, which were largely german traditions that mean present in the royal household long before prince albert arrived so victorian albert do get the credit for turning the tree from an exclusive or foreign phenomenon limited to palaces and german enclaves into one that was a regular domestic custom all over britain even scotland despite the apparent ban on christmas simultaneous adoption of the christmas simultaneous adoption of the christmas tree in the us similarly from germany saw the publication of children's volumes

such as chris kringle's christmas tree in philadelphia in 1845 and from a new york city firm called thompson and weller the sale of small items for christmas trees so that is decorations baubles um you know the kind of stuff that you'd recognise today Also Like sugar craft which included birds Animals, insects, fruits and vegetables Some little treats And then of course you've got the lights

Now our lights You've got the light on constant And then you've got the flashing version Who is putting that on? My son And you've got the ones in the public health advert that burn down the tree. You've gone for those ones. And then random

flashing but random. It's so intense. So intense. They're the ones the kids like and as soon as they've left the room I turn that off because it's Well you just go constant. I would always go constant, yeah. I love a bit of flashing. Of course, no, no. The flashing, erratic flashing is awful. Erratic flashing is the sort of thing I love a bit of flashing. Of course, no, no. The flashing, erratic flashing is awful.

Erratic flashing is the sort of thing I imagine a sort of police state uses to get information out of people. They lock you in a room and they put it on the... It's torture. It stresses you out. I can't... It's the inconsistency of it. Yeah. I cannot stand.

I'm with you. Yeah, yeah. It genuinely stresses me out. I walk into the room, if it's flashing, I just go, can everyone calm down? I'll tell you one thing with Christmas trees that I always get wrong is every year I go, don't worry, I can carry this home.

And then about halfway through the walk home, I'm like, this is the most pain I've ever been in. But every year I'm like, it's fine, I can carry it. And then you're stuck in a no man's land between your, you can't, it's too, I can carry it. And then you're stuck in a no-man's land between your... You can't... It's too short a distance to then get a cab, so I've got to stick going, despite the fact I know this means that I'm going to need physio. Yeah, yeah.

Every year I do it. And then finally by the 70s, Christmas lights were sufficiently cheap and plentiful that domestic customers could go wild, Chris Sculls style, creating vivid displays, not only lit up their houses, but their gardens as well. And then the race obviously was on to be the biggest and the best and the first. And so that would lead to complaints

of people saying, oh, you've put your Christmas lights up too early. Because people wanted to get in quick. I like Christmas more than you. That's really interesting. I actually like it more than you, and I'm first. I'm more festive than you can ever be. So do you decorate the front of your house?

Do you do that stuff? You've got a wreath, that's it. Just a wreath. I've got a wreath. I can imagine your house has got like a light-up reindeer in the garden or something. Light-up candy canes up the path in front of my house. No, you don't. I have white stars down all the front of...

This is true. Yeah, this is true. You have light-up candy canes. Yeah, light-up candy canes down the path in front of... This is true. Yeah, this is true. You have light-up candy canes. Yeah, light-up candy canes down the path in front of my house. Big, massive white windows. I've got a garden full of inflatable Christmas things. A snowman. Santa with his reindeer.

A light-up deer. I've got an inflatable Christmas tree in the garden. Chris, if you ever become a millionaire, you will be Britain's worst person. I'll be like that guy who won the garden. Chris, if you ever become a millionaire, you will be Britain's worst person. I'll be like that guy who won the lottery. The lotto light, Michael Carroll. Chris, Cal is the lotto light. All right, now we're going to get into the origins of Father Christmas.

This is your second warning month. Yeah, yeah, yeah. All right? Okay, let's get into it. I'm here to talk about Santa Claus. Woo-hoo! Was he invented by Coca-Cola? Yes or no?

In the 1930s, yes. Yes? He was like a green little weird sort of elf. That's for a spirit competition Let's go no Coca-Cola did not invent Santa Claus Yes He's been using their advertising

Since the early 1930s But images of Father Christmas As the red white bearded Jolly old soul Predate that Oh do they Yeah yeah yeah That's my grinchy sort of pub Christmas fact out the window.

Destroyed. Actually invented my Coca-Cola. It's a sort of celebration of extreme turbo-capitalism, actually. Merry Christmas. Is that a bit of mistletoe? Is it true that when Santa Claus came down your chimney to your house he looked around and went, this is a bit much? So here's

what my dad used to do. I've got a lot of my obsessiveness about Christmas from my dad and my dad used to do some crazy stuff. My house growing up was decked out with loads of Christmas stuff just like I have done. But what my dad would do on Christmas morning was we had a loft and he would,

you know one of those loft hatches? He would kick that off, there'd be a ladder down, and then he would get muddy boots and print muddy boots through the house. So when I woke up as a kid, I was like, Oh my God! A farmer's bee! And my dad would come out and go like,

What's happened here? Oh, that's so cool. I love that. And you're like, well, my dad would come out and go like, what's happened here? Oh, that's so cool. I love that. And you're like, well, my dad's flipping out. So how can Santa Claus not be real? Because the geese have tread mud right through our house. Geeser. It's not a geeser.

So the Santa that Coke's advertisers developed at that time was a composite figure. And this is what's kind of really interesting about the various traditions and elements of father christmas santa claus they're a composite of all these different legends and stories that all come together to form the santa claus and that story we all know now um most people and the coke advertisers like most people attribute the main kind of character of santa claus comes from an 1822 poem that was written allegedly by clement clark moore there's all this there's a whole another episode in whether he actually wrote this poem yeah the poem is twas the night before christmas love it beautiful piece do you remember it twas the night before christmas when all through the house not a creature was stirring

not even a mouse the stockings were hung by the chimney with care in hopes that saint nicholas soon would be there it's a lovely lovely poem yeah more who wrote who's attributed to writing the poem was a native of new york city born there in 1779 he was the son of an anglican bishop and now there is debate about whether he or not he wrote it but it is agreed the poem came out of new york and therefore santa cla Claus and his reindeer are New Yorkers. They're New Yorkers. They're New Yorkers. New York always feels to me like quite a Christmassy place.

So that brings me some comfort knowing it's a bit of an urban. Like L.A., not a Christmassy place. Yeah. I'm flying here. Is that what New Yorkers say? They could fly. A few years after the poem was published, the New York Constell constellation released an article telling

readers outside of new york city about a custom which generally prevails in the city this is the custom in new york the custom was that of santa claus on christmas eve stockings are hung by the chimney in the hope that a good-natured saint will come down and fill them with nuts cakes and sweet meats but only if they've been good that That element comes out of New York City. That's a tradition in New York. It's great parenting. What a great parenting tool. We've got bang into the naughty elf as well.

As a parental device, it is fantastic this time of year. So useful. Kids not brushing their teeth, not getting their pyjamas on, fannying about in the morning. You say, well, you know the elves here this month. Get whatever you need done. It's terrible parenting, but it works. Or just football manager style. You're trying to assert your authority.

They're not even doing anything wrong. Just waking up in the middle of the night. How deeply are you sleeping? You better be sleeping deeply. Shaking them awake. That elf is checking your behaviour. Think on. Think on.

Washing up's not done. Do you do the naughty elf? I've said that you need to be well behaved to get Christmas presents. I've never used the naughty elf. I also don't do elf on the shelf. I don't actually know what elf on the shelf is. Well, it's the same thing, isn't it? I think it's the same, isn't it?

Elf on the shelf, naughty elf, the same. Are they? Same guy, isn't it? Okay. So the elf on the shelf is observing children for their behaviour? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Is that what it is? Yeah.

Oh, right, okay. Didn't do that in Wales in the 90s. I know elf on the shelf has only been around, I don't know. I've only been aware of it. Yeah, five years. We use more the threat of the Shelf has only been around, I don't know. I've only been aware of it. Yeah, five years. We use the threat of the prison system and how quickly things inspire when you can find yourself banged up with some very dangerous people.

So very easily that can happen. And then we make them watch Shawshank and how even innocent men can go down. It does work. To be fair, he's yet to commit a crime. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Of any real sort of... Significance. Significance, yeah, exactly.

The Constellation goes on to explain, this is a sort of pleasant deception played by parents on their children, explained the Constellation. That's it, isn't it? It still continues to this day. Another New Yorker who remembers this name, writer Washington Irvin.

Oh, yes, yeah. Born in Manhattan in 1783 He added an extra twist In his version published in 1809 St Nicholas came riding over the rooftops In a wagon as he set about delivering presents to children Washington Irvin is responsible for that part of the legend Well, well, well

Wow Yeah You see how it's all kind of coming together What an influential person Washington Irvin was Incredible But if you look for Santa Claus in Britain Before the 19th century You're not going to find a thing Yeah. You see how it's all kind of coming together. What an influential person Washington Irving was. Incredible. But if you look for Santa Claus in Britain before the 19th century, you're not going to find a thing.

Santa Claus was not part of the Christmas festival. Instead, in the British tradition, he was known as Old Father Christmas. Ah. It's weird, isn't it? Actually, now I think about it, he's got a lot of names. Yeah. Father Christmas is what I knew him as. He's Father Christmas in our house, yeah. That's what he is in our house.

Yes, I think I would say Father Christmas. Would you not say Hendad Nadolig? Hendad Nadolig. Yeah, the old Father Christmas. I would say Sean Corn more than Hendad Nadolig. That's just a direct translation. Sean Corn is Sean or John with a big cone head.

Yeah. Is that what Sean, his first name? Yeah. Is that what he's known as? Sean? Is that what Father Christmas' name is? Sean?

Well, it can't be. Sean Christmas. He's not a Sean. Sean Christmas. Are you sure? Yes. Why? Sean Christmas. Are you sure? Yes. Why? Sean Christmas. If you wake

up and Father Christmas is laying presents, you should go, alright, Sean. Sean with a big corn hat. Yeah, but Santa's red costume was the work of American illustrator and cartoonist Thomas Nash, who first drew Santa Claus this way

for the magazine Harper's Weekly in the 1870s, 60 years before Coca-Cola were kind of drawing and researching. I wonder where that Coca-Cola rumour came from then, because that's quite widely... It's pre-internet. It's the kind of thing you could say and... Yeah, but everyone was saying it. I was ruining a lot of Christmas shindigs by saying it.

That illustrated Thomas Nash also came up with the idea that Santa lived at the North Pole. He also lives in several different places. Lapland. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Where does Sean live? Just in the hostel. Milton Keynes.

The halfway house above the pub Well that's it Thank you for listening to this Christmas episode If you are not a subscriber If you want to be a subscriber You get the fourth part of this episode Which is on the Christmas truce of World War 1 And we love our subscribers Because they are the people who

will eventually allow Chris to live his dream and fill not just the front garden, but the back garden with Christmas tat. But generally, happy Christmas to everyone who's listening. Thank you so much to all the support of the show as well. Whether you're a subscriber or you're not a subscriber, we love you all and thank you very much for listening.

Yeah, Merry Christmas. Merry Christmas. And a Happy New Year. Indeed. I hope that Sean brings you nice things this year. And that you have a happy season. We'll see you next week, if you're not a subscriber. And if you're a subscriber, we'll see you now. Thank you.