Oh What A Time... - #25 Calendars (Part 2)

Episode Date: January 23, 2024

(This is Part Two! Check yesterday for Part One) AND WE ARE BACK! And this week/month/year we're looking at: Calendars. How we ended up with the names for our months and days, how the Mayan calendar caused such a kerfuffle, the failed French attempt to decimalise time and our bonus part this week: why the UK government stole 11 days New Year, same incredible features: THE ONE DAY TIME MACHINE, HOW WOULD YOU IMPRESS SOMEONE IN 500AD and of course DO YOU HAVE A RELATIVE OF NOTE? Want to contribute to any of our INCREDIBLE format points? Do let us know at: [e-mail] This is Part Two, but if you want both parts now, why not become an Oh What A Time: FULL TIMER? In exchange for your £4.99 to support the show, you'll get: - the 4th part of every episode and ad-free listening - episodes a week ahead of everyone else - a bonus episode every month - And first dibs on any live show tickets Subscriptions are available via AnotherSlice, Apple and Spotify. For all the links head to: ohwhatatime.com You can follow us on: X (formerly Twitter) at @ohwhatatimepod And Instagram at @ohwhatatimepod Aaannnd if you like it, why not drop us a review in your podcast app of choice? Thank you to Dan Evans for the artwork (idrawforfood.co.uk). And thank you for listening! We’ll see next week! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Eligibility and member terms apply. Looking for a collaborator for your career? A strong ally to support your next level success? You will find it at York University School of Continuing Studies, where we offer career programs purpose-built for you. Visit continue.yorku.ca. Hello, this is part two of Calars part one came out yesterday if you didn't catch our lengthy announcement that um detailed a lot of the origin story of milk trays um basically

what's happened is we're splitting episodes over two parts out on monday and tuesdays part one on monday part two on tuesday this is part two if you want the whole episode in one complete bit without any ads and also with a fourth part, you can become an Oh What A Time full-timer at OhWhatATime.com. I think I've done a good job of explaining. Let's not get back into milk trays. We've done that. Here comes part two. So I'm going to talk to you about the Mayan calendar and why it had everyone freaking out back in 2012. Okay, so you may not remember this, or maybe you do, that people were genuinely worried that the world was going to end in 2012. Do you remember that?

Yeah, and this happens, this has probably happened twice in my lifetime, three times maybe. There were a couple of Nostradamus predictions in the sort of 1990s or something like that. Oh yeah. Looking forward to seeing

Jurassic Park, are you? Yeah. Well actually the world's going to end, so enjoy. Millennium Bug, obviously. Millennium Bug, that was a big one, yeah.

That was a huge one. Where people just thought planes were going to drop out of the sky. Do you remember the Argentinian goalkeeper Carloslos roa i do yeah retired early because he thought the world was going to end yeah around 2000 he was like wow i'm not going to spend the last couple of years on earth playing football and i do then the world didn't end came out retirement i do vaguely remember the mayan thing but i don't i don't remember yeah people were genuinely panicked

in fact there was a reuters poll that was taken at the time. It found that 10% of people worldwide were genuinely worried that the Mayan calendar might actually predict Armageddon on December the 21st, 2012. Just before Christmas. One in 10 people genuinely felt that the world was going to end. There was a boy in my school, actually, whose family believed the world was going to end.

Not then. It was a religious thing for the actually whose family believed the world's going to end not then it was like a religious thing for like end of january once i remember like he just didn't revise for his gcse he just didn't and then obviously the world didn't end and he came back and he just had really just had like a fortnight of absolute panic trying to get the stuff done really just not ready in any way whatsoever that's fine the world's gonna end i don't need to why would i bother learning about oxbow lakes and then he came oh no no nothing oh god but yeah so it did happen yeah um you're not you sort of generally the sort of people that worry about that sort of stuff are you have you ever thought about the end of the world now i'm

again that sort of stuff i imagine it but I always imagine it in about a billion years. Yeah, in quite an abstract way, maybe about an asteroid coming out of nowhere. Not in a kind of... Halley's Comet, that's one that worries people, isn't it? Well, Halley's Comet, I think, was last visible in 1986. And I do very vaguely remember features about it on Blue Peter and stuff like that. Yeah.

Because it's every 75 years or so. Someone pointed it out to Izzy and she said, it can't be, it's the day. But I remember then doing the maths and thinking, well, I'll be in my 80s. Wow. And now that doesn't actually feel that far away, terrifyingly. Looking forward to it in a way. Sweet release. Come take me hayley so the reason that people were worried in 2012 was because of something called the long count now the long count was about to

expire and to understand what this is we first need to look at basically how the main calendar works so as you know our gregorian calendar has as chris was saying 12 months 365 days algorithm um algorithmic leap years and um i'm by the way i'm i'm very bad with dates and calendars and that sort of stuff this week i had to google what year it was do you do that have you ever had that no i was filling in a form and i lost faith that it was 2023 so i thought I'll just quickly Google it and I Googled it and it wasn't there. I'll get it wrong. I used to get it wrong on the top right-hand corner of my schoolwork

for the first week of January every year. Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah. But that is where that ends. Yeah, we're now December. I'm going to cross out 1995. At the end of 2023 and I still haven't settled into the... I'm still not happy to believe that it's 2023.

That is... Is he staring at the moon level? That's stupid. So, unlike Arzo, the Mayan calendar uses multiple cycles of time which all interweave each other and it's pretty complicated, okay? The shortest cycle comprised 260 days

broken up into 13-day weeks which each individual day day identified by a name and number number and this is known as zolkin apologies if i'm pronouncing that wrong the second system known as the hub had 365 days in the year was broken into 18 months of 20 days giving 360 days and then further this is a bit i like most a further five unlucky days coming at the end of the calendar. Unlucky? Now, these unlucky days are quite interesting

because there was thought to be a time when the divisions between our world and the spirit world were thinnest. So during these five days, Mayans would all stay indoors and engage in different activities to ward off evil spirits, like washing your hair and that sort of stuff. So how would you feel about that? Every year there's five days where you're so scared about our world touching the spirit world that you just stay inside for five days it might be quite nice in a way this part i quite like the

regularity of that in a way it depends on the size of your house depends on the size of your flat i think lockdown proved that it's like a spiritual lockdown everyone's shielding posh people had a great time at lockdown. Yeah. I think if you had a small flat, it was significantly harder. So much pressure on those five days to get it right. Absolutely. Also, isn't it interesting with calendars? There's an inconsistency because nothing ever quite adds up.

So there's always a few days where you're like, ah, just there's five days of, we'll call those the unlucky days. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Every four years. So your maths is shit. That's what'll call those the unlucky days. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Every four years. So your maths is shit. That's what's happened. Admit it. Do it again.

Go back and do it again. Every four years, someone doesn't get a birthday. Sorry. You kind of cancel a bit around then. Their official age will be about 14, but they'll be in their 80s. It's sort of weird. Hang on. I've looked at this calendar.

There's five days missing. Oh, yeah. I forgot to say. They're the unlucky days, so it's actually fine. Yeah. Sign it off. Sorry about that. You don't have a birthday anymore.

I'm sorry. We're thinking of adopting the dead zone, actually, and that's two months. So every year they'd have these five days and they'd stay indoors. And a similar system existed with the Aztecs, and they and the Mayans combined their equivalents of a zolkin and a hab to create a lifespan calendar. So this is what they created, which is approximately 52 years, and the Mayans combine their equivalents of the Zulcan and the Harb to create a lifespan calendar. So this is what they created, which is approximately 52 years,

which is based on the recognition that the combination of dates in the 260-day system and the 365-day system would reset only after 52 years, which is once basically within an individual's lifetime. Thoughts on having a 52-year calendar on your wall? People really booking you for stuff when in advance it's a bit much isn't it 52 because that's almost like the scale of your life isn't it like it's almost having a calendar for your whole life do you know who i feel for is uh calendar manufacturers yeah yeah yeah knowing Knowing that people only buy one of these once every 52 years.

Yes. First of all, you're trying to make enough money. Also, that's too many of those photos. How many poses can Cliff Richard stand in? Big old follow period. If you're making a puppy calendar, that's 52 times 12 pictures of little puppies you're going to have to source. If it's a sexy calendar, you're going to run out of poses.

Has Pamela Anderson got that many pauses? In fact, once a person reached 52 years, they were seen as a wise elder in both cultures. So that would have been you in maybe a decade's time. Did you ever, as football fans, ever look at a calendar for clues as to whether a star

player might be there the following season by picking up the calendar for your football team from the following year. And if that star player is featuring August, September onwards, then you would know, oh, well, they're probably not going to sell him because he's going to be featuring in the next season on the calendar. No, I never

did that. That's awesome. But obviously the calendar manufacturers are the last people to be clued up on the transfer activity of a football club guys so the question however is how to measure even longer passages of time and this is where the 2012 panic comes in okay as the cycle that really caught our attention was something called the mayan long count which gives a relative numerical position to the zolkin and the hard measurements that otherwise determine the day-to-day passage of time so in the same way that our gregorian calendar allows us to place ourselves in history

wherever we are in time the long count marks the distance from the start of the human world so it allowed people to see how far history had developed since the very beginning which in is usually rendered in the western calendar as the 11th of August, 3114 BC. But in the Mayan system, it's 0.0.0.0.0. So that's the very point it starts. And what made the 21st of December 2012 so important was it marked the end of one complete long count cycle, which is normally regarded as 5,126 years.

And as mentioned earlier, 10% of people in the world genuinely freaked out about this. I'll give you some examples and sort of things that companies did. In London, one company was offering a three-course meal served on an ark. Grifters. My feeling is if I thought the world wasn't going to end,

I wouldn't be worried about the three-course meal. It's the ark. You don't need to try and tempt... If I think I need to be on an ark, you don't need to also convince me with the meal how was the world going to end what what sort of what form did that take different opinions it would be flooding earthquakes all these sort of things flooding you want to be on an ark exactly yeah yeah yeah so that was one of the thoughts that would be a great noah style flood yeah um can i just say about the mayans as well?

I mean, 90% of what I know about Mayan culture is the calendar. Yes. And I imagine that wasn't that big a part of the whole culture. And think of all the cultures in the world that probably had calendars. The Mayans were known for the calendar

in a way that no other culture is. Yes, especially because we use the Gregorian calendar. And a calendar that's been abandoned as well. No one's knocking about using the Mayan calendar. As much as I tried on the joint one with Sophie. Couldn't wrap her head around it. In Moscow, people pay thousands of dollars to attend a

doomsday party in underground Cold War bunkers. In the French village of Begurach, which had a population of only 189 people, it was deluged by thousands of visitors who believed that the local mountain was the safest place to weather the forthcoming events. So much so that they had to surround the mountain with

police and army to stop people from trying to get to the top of this mountain. In America, an estimated 3 million people were said to be prepping just in case. 3 million? That's the population of wheels including a man in phoenix who was keeping a thousand fish in his swimming pool um to survive

on if the worst came to the worst so there you go um i mean it's just annoying you can't use your swimming pool in the run-up that's the thing it feels like there's an impact of that you'd have to get fit in another way but yeah so these people really genuinely felt that the world was going to end and all this and this is the crucial thing despite the fact that the mayans hadn't actually predicted the end of anything at all um everything to them just came in cycles that's how life works the end of and it was simply the end of one cycle and the start of another nothing more than that but in a world of conspiracy theories you mentioned nostradradamus, Christian belief in the day of judgment. Plenty came to believe that 13.0000 would mean the end of humanity. There was genuine panic about this.

But all it was was a misreading of what the Mayans meant by their calendar. Wow. There you go. That is the unbelievably complicated to use, and probably there's a reason it's not around anymore, Mayan calendar. Were you running around midnight before the Mayan calendar expired going, Quick, we should get a snog in. The world's about to win. Somebody!

Trying to find some mistletoe. Does anyone remember the Olympics? It's quite a feel-good time. Does anyone want to do a snog before the world ends? That would be annoying if you were in charge of London 2012. But you also felt the Mayan thing might be right. All that work that's gone into it yeah

then you realise gone to the trouble of building the big stadium yeah you just finished the velodrome you're like oh why do I bother do you think your concept

for the London 2012 opening ceremony of just you running around snogging people of various different professions it's a shame they never went with that it's a shame

running around the London stadium Danny Boyle liked it he didn't think it was right for the Olympics. Not this time, he said. Not this time at least. Maybe for Paris, because the French, you know what they're like. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

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TD. Ready for you. ways to save. TD. Ready for you. Right. Okay. It's Paris.

It's 1793. Post-French Revolution. You've got rid of the monarchy. You've got rid of God. And now you've decided it's a good time to create a whole new calendar. Now, in my opinion, I think you've got an awful lot

on as it is why mess about with something that's fine and working as it I just think sometimes people take on work that is unnecessary and I just think to myself please everyone

we can have the old one for a bit until we sort out how we're governing our country in a post-revolutionary way. So when was this? 1793. 1793, okay. So it's all to celebrate the great age of liberty. Yeah. So you remember of the National Constituent Assembly and it's Paris

and clearly those people do not know how to relax, right? Now, a group of men have been tasked with coming up with a new calendar to mark the revolutionary and republican spirit of the country. So it was Charles Gilbert Rome, Claude Joseph Ferry and Charles Francois Dupuy. And what they came up with was the republican calendar. Right. Each year, 12 months. Classic. Yeah.

Each month had 30 days. Okay. Classic. classic yeah each month had 30 days okay classic but each set of 30 days was divided into a 10 day week called the ducat now the 10th day was held to be a day of rest so you're by modern standards you're losing a couple of days i'd be annoyed by that by the way if they if the government suddenly went you know that seven day weekend thing thing? Yeah. Shifting that back. It's now ten days. It's now ten days.

You get one day. That would be very annoying. Yeah. The tenth day was held to be a day of rest. It was to celebrate various Republican festivals, including the newly invented Cult of Reason, which, in my opinion, doesn't sound like a laugh. Those two words don't belong in the same sentence.

The Cult of Reason. Yeah. The Cult of the Tenth Day, which sounds tacked on, and a Friday afternoon idea, and the cult of the supreme being, which is the brainchild of Maximilian Robespierre. Now, to make up the difference with the length of the true year, you had a set of additional complementary or festival days,

and they were added after the final month with a leap year providing a sixth extra day. So the entire cycle started on the autumnal equinox, about 22nd of September, with the extra days leading into the new year. So one more time. So it started in September, the new year. Okay, right. Now, the starting point of the calendar, that is year one.

Not the right time for the new year, by the way. Absolutely not. It's too mild a month,'t it yeah what does that mean well not enough of a stark transition i think i don't i find september quite depressing maybe oh yeah i suppose there is but then i suppose they all january is a good way to start i think i think you take the christmas decorations down you're left with a bleak wilderness. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And you're like, okay, we go again. Yeah. Or there's an argument your new year should start when things start to brighten up again.

Yeah, end of May. Yeah, that's where you want to say, it's kind of, oh, good, look, the lambs are out. There's colour, there's daffodils, we're all dancing. Tom lives in East London, just to be clear, by the way. The lambs are out, someone's getting a phone call. Yeah, next to a cash generator in a chicken shop okay so 1792

was the first is year one so far you know so good you'd think but the men who came up with the system were so obsessed

with decimalisation that they even went as far as to determine the length of the day so it was 10 hours with each hour being 100 minutes and each minute was 100

seconds amazing a friend of mine was a ba broadcast assistant uh for the welsh news yeah what was tricky about that job is it was it was her task or one of the things she had to do was to tell journalists who were interviewing politicians for instance that they had you know 30 seconds to wrap up 15 seconds or up five seconds etc but the problem is you know that you've got to go into the next feature at 6 13 and 35 seconds yeah and you know it's now 6 13 and 22 seconds so you're trying to do maths because it's not a decimalized system you you end up being good at particular kinds of multiplications yes because you're working in 60s and not in hundreds and uh that would suit broadcast assistants on live news is what i'm trying to say but ultimately it's quite it's quite a difficult thing to get yeah

yeah yeah so is that enough of a reason to bring it in? Exactly. Exactly. It's an interesting point where the decimalisation of time hasn't really taken off because it works in other kinds of measurements like, you know,

weights, obviously. But also, imagine trying to implement that. You know how in Sweden in 1967 they changed people, they changed the law so suddenly you were

driving on the right and not on the left. Right. Yeah, I've seen the videos of this and it's just chaos. People are Yeah, I've seen the videos of this. And it's just chaos. People are just like, roundabouts.

People are suddenly driving on the right and not the left. Amazing. And they did it at 5am. So suddenly, if you're driving at 4.59, you were driving on the left and at 5 o'clock. What a stupid time. What a stupid footage at 4.59 as it ticks over to 5. There's just loads of people swinging around.

You have to start driving on the road. Not 5am. That's a stupid time to attempt it. Yeah, I was reading about it last night. Well, I think there's

probably more cars around at midnight than at 5am. Apparently, that year there were fewer accidents than the year before because for the first

few months it was implemented they were so terrified. Fair term collisions. I read this on the news, but I'm not sure I quite believe it. And it took a while before the crashes ended up being similar to how they had been before the change. But still, imagine trying to decimalise time.

I can tell you that, you know when people laugh at how older people can't get their head around when the change to decimalization all this sort of stuff we don't you know always talk about the measures that used to be i would never get my head around a shift to a hundred minute hour and all this 100 second i would never it would never happen i'm too late into my life life now. So if they changed it, would you ever get your head around it? Decimization with money. Yeah. And yet, wait, like pounds and ounces and money.

You're right. I don't even, I don't understand how old money worked. I cannot wrap my head around it. That sounds so complicated compared to what we have. And maybe you would just get used to it. Like a groat and a farthing. A happeny. Yeah, yeah. What's that?

A shilling. What's a shilling? Six and tuppence. What are we talking about here? What are these things? A guinea, which I think is a pound and five pence. Like my mum and dad, it happened in 1971, so they were both almost 20 when

decimalisation happened. Really? And it was a really big thing. I asked my mum the other day, I mean, I remember stuff from when I was 20 when decimalization happened really and it was a really big thing I asked my mum the other day I mean I remember stuff from when I was 20 but I said how did old money wish

um well that's shillings 5p half a crown is that a bob I don't know whatever nine bob

note is back wrong do you think our kids will be like what was it like how did smoking in pubs work? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Absolutely. That kind of thing.

Now, the absolute decimisation of time, it was quickly recognised as being flawed. So that was abandoned in 1795. Not before some clockmakers had made the switch. Oh, you gutted, wouldn't you? It's the equivalent, isn't it, of the England World Cup winners 2022 T-shirts that are all in a factory somewhere.

Yes, absolutely. Now then, so they tried to decimalise time, which they couldn't manage, but then obviously they were still working on the calendar. Now, the 12 months were divided into four seasons, autumn, winter, spring, summer, each with three months, as you can imagine. Now, the problem with this system laying the names, because it was all very mathematical, So the first, the second, the third, that was a sort of rural

calendar, and that was to add character to the Republican invention. Let's check a bit of colour in. A bit of light and shade. So in his system, a man called Fabre d'Eglantine, in his system, the days of the month would be named after fruits, flowers, farming farming equipment and

minerals. Day of the month is named after a combine harvest. We're going away next tractor. I'd quite like that. Go on then. So rather than Monday it would be apple pear, combine harvest of the tractor

trowel. Is that what it is? Spade. So rather than Monday It would be Apple Pear Common Halfs Attractor Trowel Is that what it is? Spade Spade That's nice I've got spade off So sorry

Are you going to survive? Yeah Yeah so I mean it became Really really complicated I mean it's so complicated I'm actually not going to go into it. Because I was reading it last night, and I was like, I just don't get it. I just know as long as I've got spade and trowel off at the end of the week, I'm happy.

Now, British people, the British commentators learned what was going on in France, and they lampooned it, especially the calendar and its fanciful naming system. They thought it was so funny, so they started translating months as like wheezy sneezy and freezy right um and it's it's not all that far from the french because they were renaming months it was a nivose means snowy uh pluvios means rainy inventors means windy okay so uh deglantine was one of the people who Invented this new calendar Not everyone was happy with it And you can tell that people Weren't exactly thrilled to bits

Because he was executed by the guillotine Oh no No No way Imagine that You're given a big job. Yeah. You do it to the best of your abilities.

People are like, no, it's complicated. Off with his head. Do you think the executioner was like, we're chopping your head off next trowel? Yeah. Well, him locked in a cell with the traditional calendar on the wall

showing when he's going to be the pair head would be the final indignity, wouldn't it? So bad. Oh, now in the end, the calendar was done away with by Napoleon in 1805 with the old Gregorian calendar restored on the 1st of January 1806. But not even Napoleon could kill off the idea. For a few short weeks

in 1871, which dates to significant, obviously, because of the Paris Commune, when Paris was governed by the Commune, the republican system of measuring time was suddenly revived because they were trying to associate that new spirit of revolution with the old one. Right, yeah.

So this was a second repeat during the Russian Revolution when the Bolsheviks looked at their revolutionary ancestors, if you like, for ideas and inspiration. So there was an idea that they had that there'd be an overhaul of the calendar in 1929 and the creation of continuous production weeks.

Right, they sound fun. Tom, you thought you had spayed off. Not anymore. Because it's a continuous production week. That's so Orwellian, isn't it? That's so sort of 1984. Doesn't even have a nice name, Continuous Production Week. Sundays and holidays were abolished.

At first, the Continuous Production Week was five days long, but it soon became six or seven days. And then the worst was a continuous working week of 30 days with seven rest days to follow. No, not swapping that. No? But this is probably before the days of annual leave. You're not getting any time off.

So having a chunk of time, at least you can do something with it. Could you write jokes for the last leg for 30 continual days? And then seven days off humour? It's... That just feels like an absolute... You'd be broken, wouldn't you? Surely. Especially at a point there where there'll be hard work that's, you know, it's tough work, isn't it?

Yeah. Sort of looking at, giving a sideways glance at the news. It's kind of, it's tough work, isn't it? What, doing a continuous production week? It doesn't sound like a walk in the park, does it? 30 days without a break. Should we do a themed week on this podcast, the continuous production week? And rent them out.

But there was rest. So each worker, without consideration for his or her family, was allocated a rest day, denoted on a calendar by a specific colour, purple or red or green or yellow, lead us to say this often meant a father having a day off when a mother was at the factory or vice versa. It was also very much open to manipulation by those in charge of the allocations.

Unlike in France, so the Bolsheviks did not decide to get rid of the Gregorian calendar because they'd only adopted it in 1918. So on the CISO

and on the CISO the revolutionaries themselves. So there was no notion of a Soviet calendar to match a French one. It was just the manipulation of time to suit the demands

of industrial production and the forward drive towards success. A continuous production week. Wow. Imagine how bad our podcast would be. At the end of the continuous production week. I don't think we'd even release the last one. Yeah.

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