Oh What A Time... - #32 Escapes (Part 1)

Episode Date: March 11, 2024

This week we'll be rattling through some of history's most cunning plans because in this episode we're discussing some great ESCAPES! We've got the story of Alice Tankerville, the first woman to escape from the dreaded Tower of London. The incredible escape from Stalag Luft III later immortalised as 'The Great Escape'. Plus the only successful escape from the world's most escape-proof prison, Alcatraz. And our bonus this week for the OWAT: Full Timers is - the incredible story of the Chilean miners escape of 2010. As you'll hear, there's lots to discuss this week: have you ever gone lips to teat? Who was the first person to go lips to teat? What animals are an undiscovered lips to teat treat? To get in contact about that or anything else, you know what to do: [e-mail] This is Part One (Part Two will be out tomorrow), but if you want both parts now, why not become an Oh What A Time: FULL TIMER? In exchange for your £4.99 to support the show, you'll get: - the 4th part of every episode and ad-free listening - episodes a week ahead of everyone else - a bonus episode every month - And first dibs on any live show tickets Subscriptions are available via AnotherSlice, Apple and Spotify. For all the links head to: ohwhatatime.com You can follow us on: X (formerly Twitter) at @ohwhatatimepod And Instagram at @ohwhatatimepod Aaannnd if you like it, why not drop us a review in your podcast app of choice? Thank you to Dan Evans for the artwork (idrawforfood.co.uk). And thank you for listening! We’ll see you tomorrow for Part 2! BYE! Chris, Elis and Tom x Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Eligibility and member terms apply. Looking for a collaborator for your career? A strong ally to support your next level success? You will find it at York University School of Continuing Studies, where we offer career programs purpose-built for you. Visit continue.yorku.ca. Hello and welcome to Oh What A Time, the history podcast that tries to decide if the past was untenable. I wonder if people said that in the past. They said, this is clearly the past and it's untenable. It's not working.

I was born 700 years too early. I can't make this work. I'm talking about the 1500s today. Not workable. I'm wondering if in 1531, anyone ever looked around and thought, this isn't working. Yeah, yeah.

I'm sure anyone in 1531 said, do you know what? Naturally, when I think about my skills, my strengths and my personality type, I'm a podcaster. That's not going to exist for another 500 years, pretty much. There or thereabouts. Oh, God. Oh, doomed.

And just to complete this intro, I'm Chris Gull. And I'm Tom Crane. And each week on this show, we'll be looking at a new historical subject. And today, we're going to be discussing Great Escapes. Yeah. And we are all equal. Me, Tom, and Ellis are all equal partners in this podcast. No one can claim credit for various things. I'll let you know. We all take responsibility together. However, I will say Great Escapes was my idea. And I'm really proud of it. Okay. Because specifically, I'm going to tell you the story

of the first woman to escape from the Tower of London. And when I heard this story, I could not believe it. And I've spent a week Googling it. And now I've got an actual historian to help me with research. And you're going to hear that output. Plus Starlag Luft 3,

aka The Great Escape. Alcatraz, a really famous escape. And the bonus bit this week, and I don't know why, but I think this is the funniest escape ever, and I don't even know why, the Chilean minor rescue of 2010. But is there something funny about it? I can't really... The Foo Fight has been set down on an iPod, sticks with me.

Why is it so funny? It was amazing. It was an amazing shared televisual moment. It was like the Olympics opening ceremony or or I don't know a royal wedding

or something it was the kind of thing that everyone watched Ghost Watch Ghost Watch another great example I don't know why I said the royal wedding

I've never watched a royal wedding because I can't but you know what I mean I'm well aware that everyone else is watching it it's so unlikely you leaning over to Izzy

and go, what a wonderful shared experience this is, with a tear rolling down your cheek. Well, yeah. Did you watch the royal wedding? I didn't watch it. I didn't watch it. During the Queen's funeral, we'd only just moved in, so I had set up the telly, but the house was in chaos,

and I had it on because I thought this was, it was a historical moment of significance and of note. So I thought I'd just to see what it was all, just to see what it was like as we were, you know, unpacking boxes, et cetera. But I've got to be honest, I do get tired of pageantry very quickly. I've got a low pageantry threshold. I think you're protesting too much.

You're protesting too much because just a moment ago, you reached in your brain for a great shared experience and you came up with a royal wedding. There is nothing you can say can escape that shame. I think 81, Charles and Diana. I mean, I would have been like 8 months old as me at the time but I'm sure

that was a big one I actually Live Aid is the one I wish I was a little bit older yeah because I don't I don't remember Live Aid if you had more time to think

you would have come up with Live Aid yes and if you haven't seen Live Aid our sats we've all done them so there we go it's a big great shared experience if you haven't seen Live Aid, our sats, we've all done them.

So there we go. It's a big, great show. If you haven't seen Live Aid, do go out of your way to watch it. It really, especially a young lad called Freddie Mercury. It's well worth 15 minutes of your time. Although I mentioned Live Aid to Izzy the other day, my partner, and she'd never heard of it. Really?

No. I said, no, not at all. What's weird about it is I actually watched a bit of it. A big story at the time? I watched a bit of it. And Keener, Keener playing at Live Aid. And the crowd are so into it. They're screaming the whole way through it. Yeah.

Again, mass hysteria like a royal wedding. It's like when you look at the lineup for both Live Aid's, the one that happened at Wembley, and then obviously the one that happened in Philadelphia, there are some names that really stick out. Like the one in Philadelphia, REO Speedwagon. You're like, okay, all right, just about. But the Hootersers who the hell are they

play the biggest rock concert of all time phil collins on both bills of all the people to be on both bills of all the people who are regarded as completely indispensable we've got it we've got to get Concord involved. Collins is indispensable. Hypersonically, we have to fly this guy so he can... Collins broke the sound. We have to fly this guy faster than the speed of sound so that he can be in both places.

So he can drum in two cities on the same day and a shared television experience that, according to Ellis James, is equal only to the royal wedding. So today, as we discussed, we're going to be talking about escapes. Before we get into that, should we do a little bit of correspondence? Oh, yes, please. Because that is the one thing we should never escape.

It's a vital part of the show. The email I'm going to read today. Now, I love this email for reasons that will become very, very clear as I go into it. First of all, it's one-day time machine related, which is always a joy. Britain's best format point. Secondly, check out the gravitas of the person sending this in. This is from a guy called Pat Hadley. And it starts simply, I dug at Pompeii, but enough about me.

Ave, Chris, Tom and Ellis? Now this is the quality of listener we have. It's true, I did for a month as an undergrad and then went on to ignore Romans for the rest of my archaeological career. So this is an actual archaeologist emailing the show. How cool is that? I love that. I love the show. I've been binging for the last few weeks and i've been thinking of chucking into my archaeology stuff when lo and behold you covered sutton who's magic now my one day time machine let's cue the jingle why not we haven't heard the jingle in a while here's the jingle it's the one day time machine it's the one day time machine it's the one day time machine it's the one day time machine my one day time machine, the first day someone would be... Okay, this is really good.

My one day time machine would be to go back to the first day someone reached under a cow and went slurp, slurp, slurp. Oh, I couldn't tell without the slurp word. And he's explained, which, first of all, I like the fact he suggested it's literally lips to teeth. It's someone who's gone straight. There's no bucket. There's no pail. There's no decanting of the milk.

He's simply taking it straight from the faucet. Lips to teeth. He said, you know, I just want to learn about that decision. What were they hoping for? What did they expect? And how long after did they make lovely, lovely camembert? Do that as you will. There you go.

So that's a lovely thing. And he's ended with this lovely little bit of wordplay. He said, archaeology-wise, I mostly dug way older prehistoric stuff at Star Cart in Yorkshire. The beer's better, the wine's worse. I'm no longer an archaeologist. My career is still in ruins. Cheers, Pat, in Sussex. So there you go.

So that's quite an interesting thing. Going back to that point where someone, and this is a perfect example going, let's take milk from that animal, and big part of that decision-making process, who put their hand up, pointed at the cow and said, let's suck on that. Do you know what? It's a common trope, particularly in American stand-up, to take something like that, cow's milk, and go,

the first guy, oh my God, who was the first guy? What was he thinking? The first guy, he's lips to teeth. What does this guy think? Okay. And it's often very funny. And I think comics in writers' rooms are often quite sniffy about it as a comedic device. But once you start thinking like that, it's impossible to stop.

And everything appears crazy. Like, as soon as you start thinking about the first burst of good lips to teat you're like right okay all food appears mad and then yeah things like like um at what point or how long did it take before they made camembert cheese making is crazy like yes the early experiments in cheese makingemaking are crazy. Also fermented food. Fermented food is very common in cultures all over the world. But I think, and it's often very good for you, fermented food. Yes.

Well, I have a bucket of kimchi in my fridge at the very moment. That's true. It's a genuine, there's an Asian supermarket near me where you can buy buckets of kimchi. Yes, I really like kimchi. Yeah. But when you smell it, you. Yes, I really like kimchi. Yeah. But when you smell it, you don't... I ate it for the first time because I'd read a newspaper article

about how it was good for me, and I was in a shop and it was there, and I thought, well, I'll give it a go. But when I smelled it for the first time, I didn't think, hmm, it smells delicious. Yeah. The, you know, like a thousand years ago, whenever kimchi was invented people weren't saying

oh actually I read something on the I've got the Daily Telegraph app actually I tend not to buy the paper I tend to use the app I've got all the apps and something like that

that was very good for your gut health like camembert the first time you tried that I think it's quite counter absolutely it's quite counterintuitive can I briefly mention by the way, Chris,

when I say a bucket, it's a sealed bucket. It's not like a slot. No, a builder's bucket. I'm imagining a builder's bucket. It's in the corner of a supermarket. He's like, yeah, like what a builder would probably run around. Just build it on it, gun hard. Do you know what?

I don't really have a... It's a paintbrush sticking out the side. I don't really have a problem with the... I can understand the first guy going lips to teat. Because you eat a cow. Like, it's not that... Like, you might see the milk, see a calf drinking the milk, think, that looks tasty.

I can imagine a guy on his own in a field, and he goes lips to teat, right? What I don't get is... By the way, it's absolutely our new T-shirt range. We've got custard is my favourite liquid, and lips to teat. There we are. That first guy goes lips to teat. this is where it gets interesting for me because he realizes it's tasty it's milk it's lovely

it's full fat it's blue top he's been proven right thank goodness blue top straight from sauce warm so when what does that that guy has to tell someone then. That's what I find weird. Who does he tell? No, he'll be at a sleepover. Two guys, and they'll be shooting the shit. They've had a couple of cans. Never have I ever. And then it's like, we're mates and we're pretty close.

Yeah, man, we're pretty close. We're good mates. Yeah. Like, we're... We trust each other, don like we're we trusted you didn't we yeah yeah yeah I trust you yeah I mean you're my best friend

great great you know sometimes you do weird stuff yeah yeah we all do weird stuff I went I went lips to teeth

with a cow in a field yesterday and it was fantastic and I heard you to do the same. Honestly, Mark, I went lips to teeth and it was fantastic. Do you remember your mother's gospel?

No. No, neither do I. Anyway, imagine you did and that was great and then it's better than that and more accessible. Anyway, got to go. See you later.

I'd like to take this on another another logical step or never another um a leap of thought which is simply what the cow was thinking when the first guy approached assuming it's a guy who's looked after him for a while he's thinking what are you doing steve steve why why why are you i've got an innocent explanation don't cows cows, if their udders get too full, they can get really ill, can't they? So maybe it was a farmer who was like, he was forced to go lips to teat, this guy. What, desperate measures? Desperate measures.

And then nature rewarded him. And in fact, nature rewarded us all. Absolutely. The new lips to teat range, Brian. Oh, what a time well and then the first person to suck on an oat as well

to try and get milk out of an almond and an almond so you know but it's led us to this it's led us to better tea but quick quick thought

cow's milk because I like cow's milk's nice I've got a massive intolerance to cow's milk so it's not like great for me but I do appreciate the taste. So when you go lipstick on a cow, it's simply for the pleasure.

It's not for milk. You're not dictating that I can't go lipstick as much as I want. It's simply for the nipple play. But do you think there's other mammals whose milk is tastier than cow's, but it's just like a rhino? I don't know,'s rhino oh you know as in like other than other than yeah could there be other ones that are too exotic but the milk would be really tasty cat's milk yeah yeah something to think something to think about if

you want to go hey look there's a whole world out there if you want to go lips of tea and find out an email that's it i suppose smaller mammals commercially would be impossible to... It'd be impossible to create that much milk, wouldn't it? A shrew or whatever. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Or a panda. No, because they're hard enough to breed without going lips of tea on a new panda. I mean, if cat milk is tasty, it's going to be sold at a premium price. And then you'd get homegrown cat people

growing, like getting kittens. Yeah, I mean, I've got two kittens myself. The mung does one more. But anyway, guys, the point is, it's really great that archaeologists got in contact with the show. That's the quality of listening we have. This is all sensible chat it sends us off on.

Yeah, maybe. Drucken, what was the archaeologist's name? I can find out now. It was Doug. Hey! Was it Doug? No. Of course not.

I'm just a very good writer. It's Pat in Sussex. Pat in Sussex. Drucken. There you go. Drucken, Pat is embarrassed to listen to this. Do you think of any archaeologists made to say, wait, listen to you, Pat.

They're like, is it a history podcast? Sort of. I probably wouldn't bother. I wouldn't. I wouldn't bother, actually. It's fine. What are they talking about? It says history there.

Oh, no, nothing. No, come on, tell us. They're talking about going lips toster Teat with different mammals. I listen to it to unwind. Before we crack into the history, let's launch a new bit of correspondence called Lipster Teat. What I want to find out is

if you could taste any milk from any animal in the world, what would it be? How would you access that milk? And thirdly, have you ever tasted a weird milk and what was it like? That's

Lipster Teeth at hello at oh what a time dot com Do put Lipster Teeth in the subject line Okay

Shall we crack on to some actual history? Well there I mean lots to contribute with there Here's how you can get in touch with the show. All right, you horrible lot.

Here's how you can stay in touch with the show. You can email us at hello at oh, what a time dot com. And you can follow us on Instagram and Twitter at OhWhatATimePod. Now clear off. Breaking news coming in from Bet365, where every nail-biting overtime win, breakaway, pick six, three-point shot, underdog win, buzzer beater, shootout, walk-off, and absolutely every play in between is amazing. From football to basketball and hockey to baseball,

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You can earn points almost anywhere, and they never expire. Treat your friends or spoil your family. Earn them on your adventure and use them how you want, when you want. That's the powerful backing of American Express. Learn more at amex.ca slash yamxtermsapply. So, this week I'll be talking about the first lady to escape from the Tower of London. I'll be discussing escapes from Stalag Luft 3, the prisoner of war camp. And I'm going to be talking about the first cow to escape the puckered lips

on Lips to Teat Pod. So I'm going to talk to you today about the most famous prison in the world, Alcatraz, and the only successful escape anyone has ever made from it. Now, first question, because you can visit it. Has anyone here visited Alcatraz and the only successful escape anyone has ever made from it. Now, first question, because you can visit it. Has anyone here visited Alcatraz? A good friend of mine went and said it was one of the best days she's ever had on holiday, one of the most fascinating days. So I haven't been.

I think because of Chris looking so enthusiastic, am I right in thinking that you have been, Chris? Well, I have been, and I'm here in London now, so I have technically escaped Alcatraz, right? Guys, bit of fun. I actually went to Alcatraz. The Museum of Alcatraz. I went to Alcatraz, did the tour.

It was brilliant, actually. But the whole day was hijacked by the fact a couple who were on the same tour as me were having the biggest row all the way around Alcatraz. And it really stuck. Yeah. Like an American couple were really rowing. Bizarre.

What were they arguing about? I think they were a bit drunk. I couldn't really, like, it was, it didn't make, but it was one of those arguments that had progressed to the point where they weren't arguing, you know, it was just like shouting at each other. Yeah, yeah. And it was an audio book tour. It's quite a weird thing to get pissed before they weren't arguing. You know, it was just like shouting at each other. Yeah, yeah. And it was an audio book tour. It's quite a weird thing to get pissed before, isn't it?

Yeah. It's quite a weird thing to get pissed and then go to a now-closed maximum security prison in America. America, man. You get pissed and go and have a meal, don't you? Is it weirder than going lipsticked? Which is my benchmark for oddity. So my question would be actually what did it make you think of prison and what did it make you think about your ability to survive prison so going around

Alcatraz what what sort of feelings did it give you and what did it make you think about yourself and how you deal with it why a um because obviously it's on an island quite a rocky island but I wouldn't say I don't know if it's because I've watched a lot of films like Shawshank Redemption about terrible jails, that actually when you're inside Alcatraz, it's not that fearsome. There's Louis Theroux documentaries about prisons, and the prisons in those seem way worse than Alcatraz. The buildings itself I didn't find particularly intimidating.

I actually thought, because Alcatraz was The buildings itself I didn't find particularly intimidating. I actually thought, because Alcatraz was like the maximum security one, it was almost like slightly more luxurious than what I would consider a normal prison to be. Do you feel the fact that all the cells have been unlocked and none of the murderers are in there probably affected the vibe? That it might have felt a bit different when it was full and active? Do you think maybe it might have been a slight different feeling? And the lovely gift shop as well.

It's just a lovely ambience. There's a lovely ambience around the place. I think we've talked about this before, actually, Al. What about you, Al? What would you do if you were sent to prison? What's your thing? I've realised over the last couple of months, I've not had therapy or counselling yet.

It's just occurred to me that I'm a real people pleaser. So in prison I'd be like, hi, guys. Who wants to have a great banter? You'd be cracking on the prison radio. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Who wants a bit of flattery? Because I am honestly, I'd love to get to know people um i don't think i'd last 10 seconds in prison it would be horrendous um alcatraz

also it would be my because because i hate injustice if i'm in alcatraz um you know for some for a crime i haven't committed. I just would be telling everyone, I'd be like, honestly, guys, I've been bloody stitched up. I think it must be an anti-Welsh thing or something. I don't know who was on the jury. So I would just be the sort of the pathetic people pleaser who was constantly pleading his innocence.

So yeah, I'd be having a very, very shit time, I imagine. How would you do, Tom? Well, I think we might've talked about this before, but I've never been on the show, but I'm obsessed with prisons and I've thought about how I would survive maximum security prisons a lot it's one of the things I think about before I go to sleep

at night, it's one of my go to I'm going to dream about this now and I think about it and invariably what I do is I set up a creative writing workshop which I think we've talked about before, possibly. But that is my thing, that I would do something, I would go, you guys, you've got a story to tell,

you've got a tough background, let's put it into a book, there's money in this. And then I sort of get the protection of the people around me. That would be, that's my idea. Yes, I read Howard Marks' book, Mr Nice, and obviously he ended up in a maximum security prison. Yeah. And he was teaching illiterate prisoners, because he went to Oxford, by the way.

He was a very clever bloke. So he was teaching inmates to read and all that kind of stuff. You know, I like to think that I would do that thing. I think I would probably end up doing a lot of cowering. But once the cowering had come to a sort of a natural conclusion, I'd like to think that I would help. A lot of solo crying. I'd like to think that I would help. A lot of solo crying. I'd like to think that I'd help with the prison's literacy programme.

I wonder how my learning course on the subject of lips to teat would go down and which animals you can suck from and which ones you definitely shouldn't. Right, welcome to Alcatraz Lips to Teat 101. It's Monday morning, 9am. We've got a big day ahead of us. But thankfully, we've enlisted an expert. Chris Scull. What are you in for?

Now, look, this course is really oversubscribed. So if you don't feel like you want to be here, there are lots of people outside this door who want to come in, okay? Is he in publicity? He claims no. Rumours are right. So, as I say, Alcatraz is this remarkable place. I think it's probably the most famous prison in the world.

It's a maximum security prison, or was, that was set on an island, as Chris will know, right in the middle of San Francisco Bay, and was for years considered completely escape-proof. So, on the plus side, you've got a high cell. I've thought about this. You've got a high cell i've thought about this you've got a nice sea view this is quite nice again you really were trapped you were trapped on this island um it was opened on the 11th of august 1934 it was repurposed um because it was previously a former military prison and it was then repurposed as a facility of last resort for prisoners basically

for whom correction was seen as an impossibility people they thought that they couldn't put right okay men like al capone yes in there that's what i know the bird the bird man of alcatraz um robert franklin stroud was in there ellis you say you're sort of a you're kind of a people person let's say it's your first day. Turn up, your cellmate is Al Capone. How are you establishing common ground with a man whose nickname was Scarface, by the way? Al Scarface Capone. Is it true that you've got STIs?

Because if you have, let's talk. Honestly, my sister's a pharmacist. I can get you antibiotics, Al. Can I call you Al? I'd rather not call you Scarface. I know people call you Scarface, but I'm finding that quite unsettling. Does it wind you up? I'm not sure. As I'm calling you Scarface,

now I'm remembering that they'd never call you that to your face. Oh. Because I've got to be honest, Rod. I've sort of heard that you've got syphilis. And if you have, honestly, my sister's a pharmacist. I know I get one phone call a week, but I can sort you out. How can you believe all those murders you committed and they ended up getting you on tax? Can you believe it?

Bloody old bastards, eh? HMRC. Do they call it right here? Inland Revenue, whatever. You don't want to have a situation, Ellis, where you're in the family visitor's room and you're having to kiss your sister so she can pass you penicillin to give to Al Capone.

For his syphilis. At least make it something fun. Hash or something like that, or crystal meth, something to help pass the time. I'm so sorry about this I really not really let's just both close our eyes could be worse

could be a cow anyway so could you sneak a cow into the visitors room and deposit the antibiotics in its teat

it's too far I mean either way Al Capone's lucky to be my cellmate. Exactly. So Alcatraz was full of these sort of people. Bank robbers, murderers, fraudsters, basically the mainstay of the prison. As for escapes, there were 14 attempts across the 29 years that Alcatraz was in operation. And these were carried out by a total of 36 prisoners of whom here's the stats 23 were recaptured six were shot and the rest drowned

or presumed drowned so basically they consistently failed it was impossible to break out this place and survive or not be caught and only one escape was ever successful and that's the same escape that was given the Hollywood treatment in Escape for Alcatraz. I don't know if you've seen this, starring Clint Eastwood. When on the 11th and 12th of June 1962, three men crawled into a ventilation duct down to the water before escaping on an improvised raft, never to be seen again.

Now, have you seen the film Escape from Alcatraz? Have you seen this? Yes, a very long time ago. It's a fantastic film. It's an absolute classic. But of course, it takes liberties with the truth. So this is what really happens. The men involved in this one successful escape

were Frank Morris, Clarence Anglin, and John Anglin, and a fourth man, a chap called Alan West, who unfortunately failed to get away. And they knew each other from previous stints in Florida and Georgia and took advantage of having neighbouring sales to concoct their plan and Frank Morris was the one who took the lead so the group were incredibly careful in their planning it's incredible what they did first they took advantage of art classes and they made papier-mâché heads, which they tucked into their beds to fool the guards into thinking they were asleep in their beds. And these papier-mâché heads were made from a combination of toilet paper, soap, toothpaste, concrete dust and hair collected from the floor of the prison barber. Now, in GCSE art, I made a papier-mâché of John Major. And it didn't look like John Major.

And that was in class when I wasn't under threat from guards. And also I had all the right stuff to make a papillomache head. And it looked rubbish. But they're using human hair. You didn't have access to human hair in your job. I didn't have human hair. That's right. But do you think you could pull off even his first stage?

Do you think you could pull off... That's just the first stage. Do you think you could make a realistic papier-mâché head in secret in a maximum security prison? Well, the thing is... Occasionally, when you're with a mate and they've got to draw something and you find out that your friend,

and you didn't know this, is actually brilliant at drawing. These are three criminals who've ended up in a maximum security prison. I reckon one of them was absolutely fantastic at, like, sculpture. And his head was brilliant. And the other two were like, help me a bit with mine, will you? Oh, the fifth man was Anthony Goon. God, do I. That was the fifth index.

Well, the funny thing about these heads is they've actually got, they've recreated them in the Alcatraz Museum. You can actually see what they did with how those papier-mâché heads were laid out. And because they're looking, trying to make it look like they're asleep, the head, I believe, is like towards the cell door. And it's like the covers pulled up over. So it's mainly just hair. So you can see a bit of a head, but really it's like the covers pulled up over so it's mainly just hair so you can see a bit of a head but really it's just there so if you wanted to make it look like john major was asleep in a

bed you get a lot of white hair you stick it to the top of a papi mashi head you're 90 percent of the way there okay so maybe i shouldn't doubt myself now the papi mashi heads were the only the start of things from the mess hall they stole spoons they gathered up discarded saw blades they created a drill from a vacuum cleaner and then they proceeded to expand the ventilation ducts below their sinks in their rooms which once again the sort of thing i'd be really bad at i'm so unpractical when it comes to anything diy the idea of having to alter the ventilation system and move metal, it's a bullseye sort of thing I'd be rubbish at.

However, there was a key issue with this work, which was the noise that all of it made. So any guesses how they masked the noise when they were starting this breakout? Any guesses? Elle, how do you think they masked the noise? Did they get people to have loud arguments or fights or something?

It's a pretty good idea. That's not right. That's a good shout. What about you, Chris? I can't remember. Are they singing or something? So to master noise, Morris, who's one of the group, played his accordion. It's certainly quite nice in prison. The CBU's art classes,

you've got an accordion with you. It's quite pleasant. and once and once a day they had a thing called music hour across the prison when there was just a general increase in sound where people could sing and play instruments and during music hour is when they basically really went at this when they start making i imagine sort of like hammering along to the beat and all that sort of stuff um and then finally the makeshift makeshift raft which was made from life jackets they stole and raincoats that they'd stitched together using self-help magazines from the prison library and they then inflated that what they learned how to sew or stitch from self-help magazines

yes exactly and i think they also use parts of the magazine to to as extra material and all this sort of stuff it's ingenious really it's brilliant the yeah the practical necessary logic behind each of these steps is just it's fantastic i know that i i would be there's no way i would be getting out of this prison. I would not have those little steps of how to do that, how am I making it. I just couldn't do that. And they inflated this raft using a concertina, which is a bit like an accordion, which they stole from another inmate and they used as a bellow. So they got what is essentially a wind instrument as a way to inflate this raft

that they'd made from life jackets and things like this that they'd stolen from around the prison. they'd made from life jackets and things like this that they'd stolen from around the prison. And then they slipped down and used this boat to get away. But the question is kind of, I suppose, how did the escape go? Well, Frank Morris, Clarence Anglin and John Anglin, they slipped off the island on this vessel. Well, Alan, this is kind of heartbreaking, his attempt was slowed by a mishap with the concrete he'd used to strengthen the hatch in his room and by the time he'd fixed the problem and got down to the shore he'd missed the boat they'd gone so he had to put all the things back in their proper place had to go back to sleep in his bed and then later cooperated with the authorities i mean how gutted that was it i

mean that was and then he just stayed out the rest of his time in prison while the others had got away how gutted you'd be at that it's just it's kind of cruel isn't it but i mean he is in a maximum security prison so i'm gonna assume he's just sort of a bad bastard that's a very good point poor poor young innocent man no wait hang on a minute he's in the most secure prison in North America. Yeah. He's not a great guy. I'm going to assume that for the good of American society, it's a good thing that his escape didn't go to plan.

Why don't they let them all out? Let them all out. It's not cruel. It's brilliant. That's what I meant. So the question is, I suppose, this is the key question, did the others make it across the water? Well, no one really knows. Although historians in the FBI on the whole agree that they probably did drown.

However, no bodies have ever shown up. And there's been plenty of claims citing since. In fact, the warrant for their arrest is still current. It runs until 2030. So 2031, they can come out of hiding go guys we did it we made it guys exactly do their guardian interviews all this sort of stuff but very briefly before i end there was one other man who definitely did escape from alcatraz and did reach the shore but it was not a successful escape now this man was called john paul scott it was six months later and when he was working the storage room near the prison kitchen he bent some window bars which is impressive right i know jumped out into the water and stay afloat he used a pair of inflated marigolds which are

taken from the kitchen which i would say very wide it's december 1962 that is not enough when you're jumping into the san francisco sea and swimming across in the middle of december with only a pair of marigolds to keep you afloat and he did make it across to the other side um and he washed up on fort point near the golden gate bridge but there he collapsed from hypothermia understandably because it was December. And it was eventually discovered by a group of teenagers who handed him into the police.

He's then returned to Alcatraz and a few weeks later, after some time in hospital, a few weeks later, returned to his cell. And then just a few months later, after that, Alcatraz was finally closed for good by the Kennedy administration. And now, as Chris knows,

it exists as a museum. So that's kind of, that's the one successful, well, successful, it depends on what you believe. I'm amazing. Escape from Alcatraz. In December. Yes. With a pair of Marigolds.

Bloody hell. Crazy. Amazing, isn't it? That is extraordinary. Wouldn't you be thinking, I'll probably wait till the summer. I've got a plan. But it's got to jump in December, to jump into the ocean in December and try and swim across.

Do you want to hear something crazy? I'm definitely guilty in my life of overestimating my own physical abilities. I remember once watching a Manic Pacquiao fight and realising he's like five foot eight and saying to my mate, I think I could have him. And similarly, I went to Alcatraz and I looked out at the swim and thought to myself, I think backstroke with a fair wind, I could do this.

And a pair of marigolds. I genuinely thought I could do that. Do you know what? If I was tied to the back of a skipper, I could do that. Some water skis. So there you go. This is the end of part one. Part two will be out tomorrow.

But if you want to get both parts right now, and in fact, every episode a week early, a bonus episode every month no ads all that good stuff support the show you can become an oh what a time full timer for 4.99 per month a pint basically if you want to sign up you can go to oh what a time.com and via that you can sign up via another slice to listen on almost any podcast app. You can also do it on your Apple podcast app. And you can also subscribe to the bonus editions on Spotify. Also, Chris, you've missed out a crucial thing. You also get an extra bit of history in every single episode as well.

The crucial thing, there's an extra part, a whole new section from the past that only you special listeners get to get exactly and that special part this week is the Chilean miners escape of 2010 it is you could get that to sign up go to owatertime.com otherwise we'll see you tomorrow for part two goodbye bye Thank you.