Oh What A Time... - #34 Health and Fitness (Part 1)

Episode Date: March 25, 2024

Get ready to pump some podcasting iron, because this week we're discussing: HEALTH AND FITNESS. The rise of vegetarianism, how people kept fit in Ancient Rome, how people maintained good health after historic pandemics and our OWAT: Full Timers, that blessed band of brothers who keep the show on the road, they get a bonus bit which this week is lifestyle hacks from yesteryear. Now as you've heard, the 'lips to teat' floodgates have opened. There's no time to explain if you don't know what we're on about. But please contribute to the conversation here if you can: [e-mail] If you're impatient and want both parts in one lovely go next time plus a whole lot more(!), why not treat yourself and become an Oh What A Time: FULL TIMER? In exchange for your £4.99 per month to support the show, you'll get: - the 4th part of every episode and ad-free listening - episodes a week ahead of everyone else - a bonus episode every month - And first dibs on any live show tickets Subscriptions are available via AnotherSlice, Apple and Spotify. For all the links head to: ohwhatatime.com You can follow us on: X (formerly Twitter) at @ohwhatatimepod And Instagram at @ohwhatatimepod Aaannnd if you like it, why not drop us a review in your podcast app of choice? Thank you to Dan Evans for the artwork (idrawforfood.co.uk). We'll see you tomorrow for Part 2! BYE! Chris, Elis and Tom x Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Eligibility and member terms apply. Looking for a collaborator for your career? A strong ally to support your next level success? You will find it at York University School of Continuing Studies, where we offer career programs purpose-built for you. Visit continue.yorku.ca. Hello and welcome to Oh What a Time, the history podcast that tries to decide if the past was grubby, dusty and just quite confusing. I'm Tom Crane. I'm Ellis James. I'm Chris Scull and each week

on this show we'll be looking at a new historical subject and today we're going to be discussing health and fitness from three of the fittest podcasters in the podcast universe. The perfect people to discuss this topic. Yes, we'll be discussing the rise of vegetarianism in the 19th and 20th centuries, fitness in ancient Rome, keeping fit after pandemics, and, as a bonus bit for our Oh What A Time full-time subscribers, lifestyle hacks.

Yeah, so how is our fitness now we're three months into this new year? Well, I just started there with a sort of whooping cough. You'd heard the word fitness and your lungs had just collapsed. I have the lungs of like, this is how sort of on brand I am

for historical podcasts. I have the lungs of like a Victorian. Chimney sweep. Yeah, exactly, a street urchin. Yeah, three months into the new year, those new year's resolutions, they're just a memory now, just a twinkle in the old eye, aren't they?

Gym memberships gathering dust. You, Elle, you are quite fit, to be fair. So every week, Ellis and I work together on a show he presents called Fantasy Football on Sky. I write on that. And Elle cycles into the writing room. Every day? Every day.

Wow. Which takes how long? It takes an hour. It is 12 miles. That's amazing. It is, to be fair. The fact we have to be there at 9am and you cycle in for an hour before work

is quite impressive. I mean, listen, listen. I'm going to say it, OK? I'm going to say it. There was a sketch that will now be available because it's already available online and it's showing up last night where for about five seconds

I had to look like Margot Robbie at the Oscars. So the makeup team had to put makeup on me like I was Margot Robbie, fake tan, costumed to get a very similar dress to the one that she wore at last week's Oscars and because I cycle 25 miles a day and when I'm not,

I cycle into the studio and I cycle for fun at the weekend. What that has given me is when I'm wearing a size 10 dress, a bum that literally turns heads. People doing authentic double takes at my bum. Because it is fantastic. The great thing about this podcast is we've got bums at both ends of the polar spectrum. Because only last night my wife said to me, you have absolutely no bum. Right, okay.

It's just a flat, it's completely flat. There is no definition to my bum. My bum? Yeah. People go to Turkey to have operations to to look like my bum they're taking photos of my bum in and the surgeon's going really one of them like in a hairdresser's yeah there's like 18 different bums in the window and you point at the one you want i would say just to for the completeness i have quite a middling bum i think i have quite a sort of normally which is quite nice

that we have all the options in this podcast maybe that's why it works all the options choose your bum can I have an absolutely no bum a medium bum or a very generous bum

a choose your bum adventure Chris how did she what happened what was the thing when she realised you don't have a bum you went to sit on a seat and you missed what happened what was the thing that where she realised you don't have a bum? You went to sit on a seat and you missed?

What happened? What was the thing that made her realise you don't have a bum? What happened? It's fitness related. I've got battle ropes this year. So I was out in the garden doing a bit of the battle ropes. And then I came in for a shower and I stripped off. My wife says, look at that.

You've got absolutely no bum. That's so funny. What a battle rope. Just flat. I would never do battle ropes in the garden because I would be so embarrassed as to what Harriet next door would have to say. You've just got to get over it. Or, like I do, do it in the dark of night. You two fitness obsessives need to explain what battle ropes are to me.

I imagine they're those really heavy ropes that you have to wibble and flick to make them move. You've imagined them right. You've imagined them right. You own those at home. Yeah. And you have them wibble and flick to make the move exactly you've imagined them right you've imagined them right sorry you own those at home yeah and you have them set up in the garden

it's just a rope mate it's not like I've got a home gym there's two ropes isn't it technically a dirty old rope that cost me 20 quid from Amazon

down the end of the garden it's not like it's not running a David Lloyd down the end there I assumed it was I assumed it was a weighted rope that it had some kind of

quality it is a weighted rope exactly it's just a rope it's not just normal kind of quality. It is a weighted rope. Exactly. It's just a rope. It's not just normal rope. Normal rope would just be just flapping a rope around for half an hour. It's a heavy rope. That's skipping.

That's what that is. Not battle string. See, I love skipping, and I've got a skipping rope, but I'm too embarrassed as to what Harriet Next Door would have to say, so I never do it anymore. Yeah. You can't do it silently. That's the problem.

Not even a ninja can skip silently. When the skipping rope is flipping round past your back, it's always clipping your bum, your massive bum as well, isn't it? A second slap of rope upon flesh every time it goes round. Harriet thinking, is that helicopter taking off? Oh, no. He's at it again. Old big bum next door.

Well, this is what we're going to be talking about. We'll probably talk about our fitness regimes quite a lot in this episode, because this episode is about fitness and health throughout history. I think this could be a really, really fun one. Before we kick off, though, shall we get into a bit of correspondence? Should we do that? Should we find out what our... Oh yes, please.

Now, here's a sentence I never thought I'd use, but the lips to teat floodgates have opened. We are getting a lot of emails with the heading lips to teat, like more than you could possibly imagine. And I'm delighted by this. For those of you who've missed what we're talking about here, a few episodes ago, we talked about the idea of the first person who tried milk

and, to quote, the first person who went lips to teat with a cow. And we asked you to write in with sort of milks you'd like to try, what animal you'd like to go lips to teat with. It's all, you know,

it's proper historical chat. All good, clean fun. Exactly. So, first email here from Dave Mitchell. I don't think it can be that one. It can't be David Mitchell, can it? Well, he's got a history degree from Cambridge, I think. Yeah, that's

true. So, it's on brand for him to listen. He's just written a book about the kings and queens of England. Oh. Oh, there you go. Wow. Oh my god. So, his email says, lips to teeth. That's the subject. Just to check, that's the subject. That's the subject line. As requested. As requested as requested so i like the start of this email afternoon gents scholars

and skull love it maybe it is david that is the sort of thing david mitchell would say this is sort of funny thing he'd say yeah oh my gosh at the risk of stepping on the toes of our american comedians there are a few other firsts I'd like to go back and see, obviously via the one-day time machine. Primarily, I think this is actually quite an interesting one, to be honest. Primarily, it's a slight loose one about lip fatigue, but it is in the same area. Primarily, I've got some questions for the first human to try honey. An objectively mental decision. He, and it definitely would have been a he no woman is that mad saw this giant hive full of angry insects that are literally willing to die to attack you

and thought yep i bet there's some tasty goo in there i'm gonna eat that exactly even once a hive is smashed open it's still a balmy choice the shapes in a hive are creepy on evolutionary level google tryphophobia but despite that some mad idiot didn't mind his beeswax and dived right in so i think that is a that's an interesting one that is a mad decision isn't it to go to something which is full of things that want to attack you like yeah but not just like one thing let's say that sounds scary there's like an angry hog and you think well if it's going at me but if i can kill it it, I can have the meat. When there's like 100,000 things coming at you en masse and you're still thinking that's what I'm going to go for.

I am so grateful to have lived and grown up in the era of the 24-hour spa. And for our American listeners, not spas and like the kind of spa that Romans used to have a bath in. Basically, it's a 7-Eleven, I suppose, would be the 24-hour spa, the 24-hour happy shopper, the budgins, the Londis, the netto. So useful. It's so much less dangerous now trying to get honey compared to 100 years ago. I agree with my thought on this is, for me, it's the first person

because the first person that went to get the honey was definitely attacked by all of the bees. So the rest of that person's tribe or family or whatever watched Steve getting attacked by all of the bees. Yeah. So what is the point where you're going, that's what I'm sticking with rather than bananas or whatever else is easy or turnips?

Let's just keep going with that on the off chance that stuff in that thing is tasty. I've got a genuine theory as to why people were willing to risk it for the honey. Because I think if you go back 600, 700 years, a thousand years, there's probably not that much sweet stuff out there. Interesting. Like honey would be one of the few sweet things and sweet foods are unbelievably nice yeah fruit and especially if you've only been eating sour things you would risk you would risk the bee sting but the other thing it got me thinking was so someone's risked their life to go to a beehive to grab the honey what what were the other failed experiments yeah if someone run up to a, tried to like chew a bit of its horn off.

Now that's a good question. Or licked some tree amber. Where did it go wrong? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. This actually leads me to a theory that I've never said on this podcast before, but I do hold strongly. And it's two words.

Everything's happened. Yeah. Throughout, you know, everything good and bad, dark and light at some point in the history of humanity over the last 60 000 years ago it's happened yeah yeah absolutely that is a bleak and hopeful statement luckily for us one thing that hasn't happened is a history podcast that takes a kind of a light-hearted look back on the past and that's why this is proving to be such a success our next email is from Sophie Moody. Great name.

Once again, would you like to guess the title? Three, two, one. It's Lipstertip. Lipstertip. Correct. How are we, lads? I'm Sophie from Canada, but living in London. Hi, Sophie from Canada, living in London.

I have had milk straight from the teat of a goat. It's very easy to aim a teat and send a steady, solid stream of milk sailing through the air. You're not supposed to be doing it from a distance, like when you're giving water to a dog from a hose. Surely you put your lips quite close, don't you? That's showboating, isn't it? Showboating, yeah.

All this to say, you don't have to put your lips on the teat. You can stand further off and squirt it into your own or your friend's mouth. In terms of milk making animals, now this is an interesting one. I'm interested in the platypus. I'm not sure I'd enjoy its milk, but I'd be willing to try for science. Collection would be tricky as platypi don't have teats. They sweat their milk out of their skin. So maybe we put the platypus in a bucket and then turn up the heat so she'd sweat.

I'm not 100% sure about the method as I don't want to hurt the platypus. I'm open to suggestion. So you just lick in the platypus? Like a lollipop. Oh, you haven't touched your platylolly. Like a mini milk. Yeah, the platypus needs to be on a stick. You can't just be holding it, Lolly. Like a mini milk. Yeah, the platterpuss needs to be on a stick. You can't just be holding it, licking it.

You look mad. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So there you go. So if you want to sip milk from a goat, you can point the teat at a friend, squeeze it and jet the milk in an arc. Oh, that sounds like a wholesome way to spend time, doesn't it? That's got to be better than teenagers going on their phones,

which is all they do these days, spraying each other with goat's milk. You know in rom-coms where you see couples flicking paint over each other when they're doing up at their first house and laughing and giggling? Maybe this is sort of farming equivalent to that sort of flirting. Yes. Two farmers who quite like each other are spraying milk at each other from a goat's teat, laughing and then rolling around in the hay.

Anyway, thank you for Lipster Teat. If you have any other comments on Lipster Teat, any views on things you'd like to suckle. Is that the right way around? Or suckle from? Actually, no, that's weirder. We're not looking for which animals you'd like to suckle. I think that's another level. Have you ever tried to lick a platypus? Then do get in contact with the show.

Also, One Day Time Machine, it still exists as Britain's best format point. Any amazing relatives. But really, it's Lipster Tea at the moment, isn't it? And here's how you get in contact with the show. All right, you horrible lot. Here's how you can stay in touch with the show. You can email us at hello at oh what a time

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From football to basketball and hockey to baseball, whatever the moment, it's never ordinary at Bet365. Must be 19 or older, Ontario only. Please play responsibly. If you or someone you know has concerns about gambling, visit connectsontario.ca. So today I'm going to talk to you about health and fitness in the ancient world. I'll be talking to you about the rise of vegetarianism in the 19th and 20th centuries. I'll be talking about keeping fit in the wake of a pandemic. And in the extra bonus section, I'll be talking about weight loss hacks. But first of all, I'm going to be talking to you about health and fitness in the ancient world. Now, to kick off, let's talk about our fitness regimes.

Chris, you are on a crazy fitness kit. You've been on one all year. Is that right? Been on one all year. We're recording this on the 16th of March. Every day this year, I've had Greek yogurt and either a banana or blueberries for breakfast. Oh, well done. And I'm working out far more than I've ever really worked out.

And I've not really been drinking either. Well, I saw you last weekend and I thought, he's got a lovely figure. Aside from the bum. I mean, apart from your bum, your wife must be like, oh, Chris. Wow.

But Elle, you see me quite a lot. Do you not? You never think of that? You never think of a writer's figure? Okay, right, okay. I've actually got some before and after pictures. Oh, yes. Would you like to see them?

Yes, please. Are you fully clothed in these pictures? I'm wearing my pants. I'm wearing trousers in one and pants in the other. I'm willing to watch. I'm willing to have a and pants in the other. I'm willing to watch. I'm willing to have a look, yeah. Let's have a look. And I've done that thing that you always see in before and after pictures, right?

And I didn't even mean to do this on purpose, but in the first picture, I look really depressed. Okay, yeah. The second one, I look really happy. So I'm just prepping you for that. Okay, do you want to see? This is the before picture. This is New Year's Day.

This is New Year's Day hung over like midday. And this is me yesterday. Goodness gracious, me, Christopher. Yeah. So who took that? My wife took the before and after picture. What a lucky lady. I can also tell you what looks really, really cool and sexy, Chris,

is pants and socks as a combination. I think that always sets off a great great bod if you're stood there in your underpants and your socks because a really sexy look um well done that's that's very very impressive um claire and i uh my wife and i decided two days ago that we were gonna start a fitness kit and start going to the gym we said right okay friday morning we're getting up we're going to the gym and then friday morning we got we went oh i don't want to go to the gym so instead we went to have a nice breakfast in a cafe instead which is like the opposite and it wasn't even okay we're just not going to go to the gym it was like no we're going to go the other way we're

going to go and have a full english in a cafe but you know full A full English. That's hilarious. Different approaches. So, just like today, in the ancient world, fitness and exercise was hugely popular. Even back then, people would stood in their pants and socks and their wives were taking before and after drawing sketches. It would have been about that. But, you know, I've always thought about the ancient world. Like, whenever you see marble statues, everyone's ripped. Yes. In, like, ancient Greece.

You don't see, like, dad bods carved out of marble. No. Do you think they destroyed the before statues? Maybe they did before and after statues of dads who were sort of about to hit a fitness regime. Ancient Rome destroyed those ones. That's not the idea they want. So it was very popular back then,

so much so that just like now, I find this fascinating, manuals and how-to guides were published in an attempt to get people exercising. So the same way we have books now on fitness, these books were published back then, even by famous philosophers like Plato so Plato which really makes me laugh the idea of buying your fitness book from a philosopher the idea of saying

what book have you got Joe Wicks no no I've got Jean-Paul Sartre that's the one I've got yeah yeah oh yeah I'm just doing I'm doing the latest num chomsky workout you just have to think about the movement. That's all it is. Don't actually have to do it. Just ruminate on what exercise is and the value of it. In fact, this is how big the names were, the people who were writing these things. Hippocrates wrote three books on the subject and argued that eating alone will not keep a man well.

He must also take exercise. For food and exercise work together to produce health. But the question is, what sort of exercise were people doing back in ancient Rome and in the ancient world? Now, Hippocrates believed that if people didn't want to exercise, this was the main concern in his book, and I think it is right, it still exists now.

He felt that if people don't want to exercise, they will find any excuse not to exercise. So I definitely like that have you ever been like that well look at me i had a breakfast on friday morning rather than going to the gym but this was his main idea that people are always looking for an excuse not to exercise ellis has a six-pack he cycles 25 miles a day i don't think you you're a man for excuses i genuinely really enjoy it and I look forward to it and I get a bit grumpy if I can't do it. Okay, yes. And I don't know where this has come from and I don't know if it's vanity that has now just become a habit.

I don't know. But that's a really good point from Hippocrates. There will always be people who are like, oh, I can't be arsed. Yes. And, you know, life often gets in the way and life would have been getting in the way back then. What's interesting is I didn't realise, I think I thought it began much later

because I knew about things like the muscular Christianity movement in the 19th century. So what's that? I don't know about that. What's that? The muscular Christianity movement originated in England in the mid-19th century. And it was, you had a belief in patriotic duty, discipline, self-sacrifice, masculinity, obviously religion you know so it was influential within Catholicism and Protestantism and the physical and moral beauty of physical athleticism. It was not just physical, but also moral health.

Okay, yes. So there were lots of youth clubs and things that existed in the 19th century. They would all have sports teams because it was the idea that you needed to be physically fit, and that was part of being a Christian. So I knew about that. I didn't realise they were doing it in the age of Hippocrates. That's amazing to me. This still comes as news to my dad because my dad says that. I didn't realise they were doing it in the age of Hippocrates. That's amazing to me. This still comes as news to my dad,

because my dad says that jogging didn't exist until the late 80s. He actually says that. He said that to me. No one jogged until the late 80s. Well, there's that whole idea that the person who invented jogging died of a heart attack. And people who don't like jogging like, see, like my dad used to say, how well did it do for him?

But he died in Central Park or something, didn't he? Yeah. So, well, you mentioned jogging there. Hippocrates, his point of view was finding ways that, as Ellis says, meant that people could exercise in a way that they enjoyed and fitted into their life. So he really pushed the idea of walking. This was one of the early things that was pushed as a fitness regime.

So Hippocrates pushed walking so much that he wrote two books on walking. How the hell do you write two books on walking? Surely after the first book you think, I've written everything there is to say about walking. It's a pamphlet, isn't it? After the first chapter, you're going to go, how am I going to fill in the rest of this? What is it? There's left foot, right foot, left foot, right foot.

That's your first chapter. However, there was one man in ancient Rome who took these principles of keep fit to new heights and popularity. And that's the person I really want to talk about, okay? This man was called Gallen. And his book, Hygiene, contained ideas about fitness, exercise, sort of training your body to its peak.

And Gallen knew a lot about the human body in its strongest form because his job, and this is a horrendous job, he was a doctor for the gladiators. Oh, man. Which sounds like a really stressful job. How was your day, dear? It was horrendous as always, obviously. It was just horrendous.

Another broke butcher to death. Yeah, exactly. The things you're consistently dealing with, it would have been on every shift you know that someone's going to come in with a leg missing sleep well steve every shift is a nightmare you're not clocking on going it could be a quiet one today yeah no it won't be we've got the lions in your friends in sort of ancient roman a and e you're going you don't know how lucky you've got it dealing with the odd bad back and sort of yes you get the odd chariot accident but literally three times a day i'm dealing with people who've

lost limbs um and in gallon's mind there were four essential components for a healthy condition i want you to tell me how you are on each of these these are the four components that gallon thought were important in ancient rome One, eating and drinking well. Are you doing that? Yeah, pretty good. Two, regular bowel movements. Every hour. On the hour.

You set an alarm on your phone, don't you? Sorry, Izzy, need to pop upstairs? You hear Big Ben chiming and you're like, oh, quick. Three, recognising clear air from dirty air and then avoiding the latter. So the ability to- I live in London. Yeah, quick. Three, recognising clear air from dirty air and then avoiding the latter. So the ability to... I live in London. Yeah, exactly.

I cycle in London. Can't do anything about that. Four, how are you with this one? Having a daily routine of sleep, bathing and sex. You keeping that up? I mean, that is... Bathing, yes. Okay.

Well, shower. shower shower first thing this was the these are the key things to be doing and as for this bathing in ancient rome it would invariably have been done at a basilica which was a public roman baths where romans would work out in an exercise area before having a dip so almost like a gym the way we have now. People would go to the baths, they'd work out for a bit, then they'd have a dip. In Italy and in Rome, a place like that, there would also be an outside pool where people could relax after doing their workouts in the sun and enjoy the outdoor pool.

Yet again, they seem to have it worked out. Absolutely. Don't they? Yeah. How did they mess it all up so well? They definitely had it nailed with their good weather and their relaxation. This did make me laugh. The remains of an equivalent bath

was found at Roxeter in Shropshire in England, and that also revealed an outside pool, but it was also discovered that basically as soon as they built this outside pool, they filled it in again. And historians think it's because the Romans quickly realized it was just far too cold to be swimming outside in britain hang on are we in shropshire exactly i'm imagining day one when they're getting in the pool and going

what have this is what have we done so gallen had very clear ideas on how you should exercise and he he spread this word across rome and it became popularized he hated the gym he hated personal trainers so he wouldn't have had a time for your approach chris he said beware the physical trainer who present themselves as experts in the perverted art of the gymnasium thoughts on that the perverted have you thought it's full of the perverted arts when you're there what's your what feeling? A friend of mine, his father's response and philosophy to sort out the world is like hyper-localism. Okay.

So you'd only eat seasonal food. You'd grow your own food if you've got a garden. And everywhere you walked, it would be walking distance. And then he's like going back to chopping trees and all that kind of stuff. Because he's one of the fittest blokes I know when he's in his mid-70s. Yeah. But he's never been to a gym in his life. He just does constant physical exercise.

Yeah. He must be chopping logs every day for some reason. I don't even know why he's doing it now. Have they got a fire? They do have a fire. And he does it for the people in the street and all that kind of stuff. Yeah. So yeah, he would think the same thing.

Well, Gallen would have had no time for these sort of people. Here's the way he described the gym obsessives back in ancient Rome. He said, they spend their lives over-exercising, over-eating, and over-sleeping like pigs. No, no, what we really want is exercise involving pleasure, for that is true to human nature. And this takes us back again to Hippocrates. All of these writers try to find pleasure in exercise.

So to wrap up this section, I'm going to talk you through what he felt these pleasurable natural activities should be. This is what he was pushing on ancient Rome, and this is what the people of ancient Rome embraced. And I'm intrigued to see which of these you think you could get into okay the first ones are not weird they're rowing running jumping and riding so those are not that unusual we can see those things you might do okay next one spear throwing was a big one that's the way that people used to exercise yeah i can see how that would... I reckon that'd be quite good fun if you were good at it. Yeah.

I think they'd have to be a set designated area for spear throwers. You can't have a situation where you're going down to the park with a spear. That's a health and safety issue. We've all seen that episode of 999 with Michael Burke. Yes, we have. I will never forget that episode of 999

where the poor schoolboy got javelin in the throat. Absolutely horrendous. But he survived. Armed combat was the way that they do it. You dress up in armour and you'd fight, I imagine, with wooden swords against someone else. That was the thing. Also, it's hard to do before work, isn't it?

Which is when most people go to the gym. You can't turn up for work with a broken nose and a sort of snapped wrist. Oh, sorry, I've been at the gym this morning. I used to work with a guy who used to go boxing training before work and would often turn up with a black eye to start the day. Yeah.

And he's pumped full of adrenaline. You're like, this can't be good for you. This one's a bit more vague. This is simply rolling around on the ground. You getting into that? He's running out of ideas at this point, isn't he? Yeah. The under sevens would love that.

Moving quickly in full armour is the next one. Moving quickly in full armour. So you put on full armour and you run. Exactly. You know when you see people, well, people put sort of heavy things in backpacks and run around. So I suppose there's a full armour and you run. Exactly. You know when you see people, well, people put sort of heavy things in backpacks and run around, so I suppose there's a link there.

Two more. Picking up someone who is bent over at their hips and swinging them around above your head. That sounds like a consent issue. It's such a good point. What? Yeah, it has to be someone you've pre-agreed with. You can't just, once again,

you can't go to the park, approach someone and say, would you mind bending over at their hips so I can swing you around above my head i'm trying to get exercising and the final one just digging uh yeah completely buying that are you really that yeah my friend's dad would be like yes i heard an old world war ii anderson shelter in my garden i had to dig it up and that over last summer and that was I could feel it was vigorous exercise. Wow.

That's so cool. Did you find anything in it? Yeah, like a Nazi. No. No, there's nothing in it. Just some old mud. Just some old mud. Quite common in East London

where I live. It's quite common to have an Anderson shelter in the end of the garden. I thought it was a barbecue. I thought, you know, like those brick barbecues and then I started digging down.

I was like, this is really deep. deep and then my dad who's from around here was like oh no that'll be an anderson show they were everywhere well oh that's interesting however and i'll end on this the most popular sport in ancient rome was wrestling and this is one of the major ways that people would exercise even at these gyms before they went and had a swim in the pool they would wrestle against other people who turned up at the gym and one final little interesting point there was a social expectation that men engage a way to dislocate your shoulder if if that's your vibe i think the awkward of turning up at a place and going up someone saying would you fancy having a wrestle the ability to do that the confidence to go up i suppose everyone's in on it it's fine but the idea of going to a gym now and going up to someone saying would you fancy having a wrestle the ability to do that the confidence to go up i suppose everyone's in on it it's fine but the idea of going to a gym now and going up

to someone saying would you mind just sort of grappling for a bit but that's what would happen these are public gyms where there'd be space and you could do whatever you'd want you could do you sit up you press up your weights or some people would just be sort of having a grapple and a wrestle he's got no idea how good they are exactly yeah Yeah. But there was a social expectation that men engaging in any sport that required minimal clothing, like wrestling, would have prepared themselves by removing all of their visible body hair. Would you like to finally guess how they did this? I just thought this was quite interesting.

Not plucking. Yeah. But they wouldn't have razors, would they? No, plucking. They had hair pluckers who were employed and worked at the baths you pay the money and they would pluck out all your hairs using tweezers almost 50 pairs of tweezers being found in excavations at the bars at roxford that i mentioned earlier showing how popular it was so you go down there and you go that doesn't feel like the most comfortable way

to de-hair yourself plucking them all individually no it would take so long yeah exactly wouldn't it yeah so painful this is maybe why people were so desperate to get the honey from beehives that we discussed earlier so they could start doing some waxing that's what it was it's what it's really about it wasn't about eating honey for taste it was about getting rid of hair but that's so that's the way that um health and fitness was kind of approached in the ancient world. It was about finding pleasure. It wasn't really about the gymnasium so much in terms of the writing. It was about finding a way that people could enjoy it in a natural way rather than simply for vanity and simply for building. It was about something that you could leave into your life and enjoy in your life.

So it's kind of interesting that those ideas were there so early really isn't it kind of find it fascinating because I also sort of imagine as well that back then people were just

healthy and ripped by note of the fact they lived during that time they were living rather physical lives and eating well you know eating much better food

than we do now really assume that wasn't but no there was still that, still that push in society. Well, thank you, Thomas. The end of part one. In part two tomorrow, you'll be hearing Chris and I.

I'll be talking about staying healthy and keeping fit in the wake of a pandemic. And also, of course, there's the bonus part for subscribers. So if you'd like to be an Oh What A Time full-timer, go to ohwhatatime.com. And I'll be talking about the rise of vegetarianism in the 19th and 20th centuries. And Elle will be giving you some lifestyle hacks if you are an Oh What A Time full-timer. And if you want to support the show and become a full-timer, you will get that fourth part.

And you'll get every episode a week ahead or slightly under that, plus fourth part in every episode, a bonus episode every month, and a whole host of other benefits. If you want to subscribe, best bet, head to OhWhatATime.com or if you're listening on your apple podcast app you can just go click on the show page and subscribe right there but we'll see you tomorrow for part two bye thanks guys bye Thank you.