Oh What A Time... - #39 Survival (Part 2)

Episode Date: April 29, 2024

This is Part 2! For Part 1, check the feed from yesterday! In this episode we’ll be taking a look at incredible stories of survival through history; from the men of the American Civil War who had their lives saved via a Bible in their pocket, Alexander Selkirk - the man whose story inspired Robinson Crusoe, Violet Jessop - who survived three infamous ships of the White Star Line and the bonus bit for the OWAT: Full Timers this week is ‘the miracle of the Andes’ ie. the story of the Uruguayan rugby team who survived a plane crash in the Andes and were forced into cannibalism to overcome starvation (among many, many other hardships). Elsewhere, this week we’re discussing ‘Custardo’ and whether this is a realistic alternative for Tom given his love of drinking neat custard. We also discuss whether it’s appropriate to bring the embalmed bones of Jeremy Bentham on tour with us. If you’ve got anything to add on anything here, you know what to do: [e-mail] If you're impatient and want both parts in one lovely go next time plus a whole lot more(!), why not treat yourself and become an Oh What A Time: FULL TIMER? In exchange for your £4.99 per month to support the show, you'll get: - two bonus episodes every month! - ad-free listening - episodes a week ahead of everyone else - And first dibs on any live show tickets Subscriptions are available via AnotherSlice, Apple and Spotify. For all the links head to: ohwhatatime.com You can also follow us on:  X (formerly Twitter) at @ohwhatatimepod And Instagram at @ohwhatatimepod Aaannnd if you like it, why not drop us a review in your podcast app of choice? Thank you to Dan Evans for the artwork (idrawforfood.co.uk). Chris, Elis and Tom x Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Hello and welcome to part two. This week, it's survival. On with the show. Okay, I am going to talk to you lovely boys today about a man some believe is the real Robinson Crusoe. Okay, this is a man, incredible story of survival this, a man by the name of Alexander Selkirk, who from 1704 survived four years and four months living on an island alone in the South Pacific. So before we start, let's just ask a simple question. How do you think you would do, honestly, on a desert island? Awful. What skills do you have and how long are you surviving?

I want you to be honest about this. What's the honest answer? The thing I think about being stranded on a desert island is if you didn't survive that first month, you'll probably be all right. But that's a... Yeah, that's a yeah that's a good point i don't know i don't know i don't know how i mean you need to get a fire going i would struggle with that that's a good that's a good point says ellis knowing that chris has

nothing to back that up with whatsoever that's a really good point if you can survive the first month if if you can find a sort of water source and something to eat. Yeah. Then it's... Like a vending machine. Yeah. I mean, because what I'm saying is I would be dead on day two. And so if I can somehow survive those first few weeks, then that changes things, doesn't it? I mean, the loneliness would be insane. Yes, absolutely.

I had to read a lot of books about the Lebanon hostage crisis I read Terry Waite's book I read John McCarthy's book Terry Waite was in solitary confinement for four and a half years He was telling himself his own life story Because he had no one to talk to I often think about Albert Speer Who was the kind of chief architect of the Nazis

When he went to prison in Spandau, what he did, he would walk around the courtyard and in his mind walk around the world. So he would count his paces, figure out how far he was walking and in his mind walk from one place throughout the world to another and he would be reading about these places

and imagining them in his mind. Wow. I think about that as a way of retaining sanity. I've often thought if I were in prison, that's not a bad idea. When I read Terry Waite's book, I was absolutely blown away at his mental strength. Like, it is genuinely gobsmacked because of...

Because John McCarthy and Brian Keenan were together, so they were obviously able to talk. And then they were in with some American hostages as well. Terry Waite, for the majority of it, was on his own. I remember when I was doing my MA, I was doing the Second World War, and I interviewed a bloke from Swansea. And Swansea was bombed very badly during the Blitz.

I love Swansea. I love the people of Swansea. But it was rebuilt on the cheap in the 60s. So I wouldn't say that the Swansea. I love the people of Swansea, but it was rebuilt on the sort of cheap in the 60s. So I wouldn't say that the Swansea city centre is as beautiful as some other city centres. Let's put it that way. Right, okay. A bit like Coventry and a bit like Plymouth, I suppose.

He remembered, because this, I mean, I did my MA almost 25 years ago. He could remember Swansea before the Blitz and he used to, when he closed his eyes, he could walk around Swansea as it used to be. And obviously there were lots of Victorian buildings. It was quite an attractive city, I think, before the Blitz and he used to when he closed his eyes he could walk around Swansea as it used to be and obviously there were lots of Victorian buildings it was quite an

it was quite an attractive city I think before the Blitz but he still had that in his head that's amazing yeah yeah so what are you imagining then

let's say you're on this beach first of all can I just ask a question Al are you doing this when you sit there are you thinking about walking around Swansea before you build shelter

because if you are doing that then you are fucked because I can't I can't prioritise sit there, are you thinking about walking around Swansea before you build shelter? Because if you are doing that, then you are fucked. I can't prioritise. Anyone who's ever worked with me knows this. The night is closing in. The night is closing in. Do I have a water source? No.

Do I have anything to eat? No. Do I have any shelter? No. Do I have anywhere to sleep? No. Am I cold? Yes. Do I have fire shelter? No. Do I have anywhere to sleep? No. Am I cold? Yes. Do I have fire? No. What am I doing?

I'll tell you what I'm doing. I'm imagining a year of 2016, but this time we win it. And I've got a smile on my face. And I'm up front. Yeah, I'm up front. Yeah, yeah. I'm a missing piece of a jigsaw. And all the girls that turned me down in sixth form were there in the front row. Yes.

They see me score back to them. Pictures surrounded by water bottles and sheltered accommodation. And that's going to sustain me for four and a half years.

Am I going to write SOS in small white pebbles on the beach? Can't be bothered because it's the semi-final against Portugal and what's this? We're 1-0 up.

Chris, I'd like to apologise for being so sort of catty about your comment about surviving the first month i do see what you're saying there you are right if you can do those basics maybe it gives you more of a chance ahead of the sort of mental turmoil that we'll come to follow um so selkirk's journey it's completely crazy what happened in september 1703 selkirk joined the crew of a ship called the sink ports Ports, the five ports, as it set off on an expedition to the South Pacific Ocean. So that's the start of it. And he kind of had a really tricky childhood in Scotland.

He was born 1676. He'd initially gone to sea as a buccaneer after getting into trouble a lot through his youth and then his early adulthood. And much of this was because he had this terrible temper okay this is one of the key things that would lead him to this situation just awful temper one that continued to cause him problems even when he was at sea with the shipmates and captains now with that in mind would you like to try and guess why he became maroon because this is bonkers did they chuck him off the boat yeah it's it's not that's not far off any any further guesses chris it's even it's even madder than that well i was going to say the ship went down and he kind of survived but that's in back like if someone's making a decision to chuck him off the boat that is horrendous well ellis is definitely closer so

he joined this crew the sink ports they set off uh sunk ports on an expedition to the south pacific ocean and life on board the ship is worth saying was really really tough no no great surprise there in between risking their lives to sort of plunder spanish ships which was the main thing they were doing and they ate tough sea biscuits they had dried peas shark meat and the other treat they had was the occasional tired seabird as it it's described. So when a seagull would come close, they would kill the seagull and eat the seagull. Or like a cormorant or whatever. Like a desperate cat kind of diet. Exactly, yeah.

For me, the things that get me through a stressful situation, I don't know about you, are sleep. And wine. And food. And custard. Custard. me through a stressful situation don't know about you are are sleep and wine and food and custard so the food is awful on there what it is genuinely food gets me through an awful thing and i think oh at least i'll get to sleep but they didn't get to sleep either they slept in wet clothes and mildewed bedding it was the whole thing was pretty horrific okay however this wasn't the worst of it due to run-ins with the spanish and french ships uh the boat became so riddled with holes that the men were having to pump out water day and night so

the situation was just terrible and eventually that's what i do that's what i would do i would say just like give me one job to do and i'll do that okay and if it's the pump in the water i'll do that and i'll just get my head down and i'll put my head down and i will and i will regret with every fiber of my being that i ever joined that fucking shit that is what that is what i would do now we know what he's like selker his temper gets the better of him okay he can't take any of this anymore yeah and i think it's fair enough in this situation he's like i can't do this i'm in a ship that's leaking i'm eating seagulls and my bedding smells of seaweed. He's a hothead in a bad situation.

Exactly. What we want, just to make this situation a little bit more combustible, chuck in some steroids and some cocaine. Well, it stopped off in Colombia. That's where it really got... Things really took a turn. So he gets angry. He turns to the captain. He says to him that he would rather be marooned on an island than risk more time on this godforsaken boat. And his captain took him on his word.

So they take him to an island. It's embarrassing. Like, we have a row and you go, Oh, I don't even want to be on this boat. All right, fine. All right. Exactly start surely you're starting to backtrack they drop him on the island just west of chile an island which is now known as romanson crusoe island as you say chris surely as you're as you're dropped on the sand you're you're claiming it was you were just it was just come on well most impressingly ellis there's records of him being dropped on the beach,

initially sort of pretending he was all right with it. The boat started to move away, and then the other shipmates saw him running back out into the surf, trying to stop the boat, saying, please don't, please don't, please don't. Oh, you're joking. You would think about that every day for four and a half years. Exactly. And the boat left, and there he was alone, the only person on this island.

Oh, wow. That day one. Imagine that day one. Yeah. It's horrendous. Absolutely horrendous. Also, he's an angry guy. A lot of coconuts being lobbed about.

I don't know who the calmest person I know is, but the calmest person I know would be angry. But he is. His temper has lived on for hundreds of years. Like, the guy's an angry guy. Do you think that anger would subside over the ensuing four and a half years? Do you think maybe it'd mellow out? Well, you'll find out, actually.

You will find out. Day one, he killed four monkeys with coconut. Just so their heads would know. No. So I'm going to give you a list here of the things he was left with let's see how this how this make you feel okay I it's an interesting one let's see what your take is on this he was left with his bedding okay that's a start although we do know that's mildewy and wet as we found out you take a musket a musket that's true a musket his knife some navigation. A musket, his knife, some navigation tools, cooking utensils or something.

His Bible, and then finally, these are the big ones, tobacco and rum, which I'd be particularly pleased about. How much? Four years worth of tobacco? Imagine rationing that. Imagine giving up fags. As that last roll-up comes around. Jesus Christ! Giving up bags on a desert island alone for four years.

It'd be fucking horrible. Please let there be some nicotine patches in here as well. Imagine that last shot of rum and that last cigarette. I'm saying the rum is going on day one. Isn't it? Really? Surely. Surely that's going on day one. Imagine if he had a mega lash-up on his own. And he's like, I've just drunk four years worth of rum.

And then the hangover, without the ability to do any of the things you do to eliminate a hangover, no fry-ups, no Hollyoaks. Checking the Deliveroo options, there's nothing. Deliveroo does not recognise this postcode. It looks like you're not close to home right now. I think it's not too bad a haul. I mean, barring, you know, like, you know, a little boat with an outboard motor, it's not too bad as a list of things you could be left with.

The knife is useful, the musket is useful. And so Selkirk, he settles into life on the island. And to be fair, he nails it. First, he builds a shelter. He learns how to hunt for food. Initially, he found it easy to catch fish. But he said they occasioned a looseness in my bowels, is the way he described it.

So they gave him diarrhoea. Oh, my God. So he then just started eating what he described as the huge island lobsters, which were actually clawless crayfish were the things he ate, first of all. No toilet paper paper so the diarrhea would be that's not ideal is it but you have got the sea yeah and also they want other people that maybe doesn't matter so much i think diarrhea on some level is a social problem isn't it there's our next t-shirt

if you're completely on your own on a desert island wearing no clothes just walking around just letting it flow out of you I don't think it matters that much to be honest No I think I want dignity until death

Do you? Okay I would be walking around that desert island with no clothes on diarrhea running around my leg literally saying whatever whatever

again and again Yeah Are you making little dock leaf pants or not Ellis? What's your... Yes Running around my leg, literally saying whatever, whatever, again and again. Yeah. Are you making little dock leaf pants or not, Ellis? What's your... Yes, always dignity. So he eats the grey fish, then he thinks, okay, I'm going to get a taste of something new. Next, he got really good at chasing goats on the steep hills above the bay, which he would do barefoot.

How good are you going to be at chasing a goat down in your barefoot? What are you thinking, Chris? And why are there goats there? I'm a bit surprised by that. Well, it's an island. Every island has its own habitat, doesn't it? I know. I would not be expecting that.

Eventually, he got so good at it, as he described it, he could have any goat he wanted, which feels like a sort of weird brag at a bar, doesn't it? I can have any goat I want, you know what I mean? That's how skilled I am. And then in the evenings, he would prepare a hearty goat broth with turnips, watercress, cabbage, palm,

all seasoned with black pimento pepper. That's starting to sound quite nice, isn't it? Okay, easy to better than me. Right. I'm now jealous of this guy. I'm jealous of marooned, diarrhoea, loader, angry man. He does have full

afternoons to prepare his meals he doesn't have to look after kids and work as well so he has the he has the expanse of the day

he also kept his mind active by reading his bible and ruminating on it for hours on end the bible would be

I mean this sounds like a terrible pun would be an absolute godsend wouldn't it yeah well any book I suppose Terry Waite was given

a breastfeeding manual. Is that what it was? So he begged for books, and eventually they were like, alright then, we'll find you something. And the book they gave him was a breastfeeding manual. He was like, thanks. Oh, this is feeling like he's getting a good grip of things. There were some issues on the

island. For example, he had quite a sizable rat problem, was one of the major issues on the island. For example, he had quite a sizable rat problem was one of the major issues on the island. Care to guess how he dealt with that? He fucked the rats. As a warning. You'd have to be killing the rats all the time, wouldn't you? That would be constant killing rats.

Well, you see, this really shows that you guys would not make it on an island. What he did was he found some feral cats, he domesticated them, and then they killed any rats that came near their camp. This guy is a genius. Feral cats. He really is. It's incredible. What is the ecosystem on this island?

There's cats, there's goats, there's rats. Like, what is this place? Yeah. He's ended up in Derby or Luton or something. Oh, it's Jersey, I should mention. I didn't think islands would have this much going on. I would expect to be dropped in a desert island and be nothing. Are you imagining a desert island as a little sort of semicircle of sand

in one palm tree? Is that what you're imagining? Like the cartoon. This sounds ridiculous. I really like cats. Yeah. I'd be like, this isn't too bad actually. Our cats brought in a mouse

the other day and it was bad. I hate rats. I've got far less of a problem with mice but I think rats are just... They really creep me out. Yeah. And they're big aggressive fuckers as well. Oi, oi, oi. So he's done

really well there by domesticating cats. One absolute legend. I wouldn't even know how to go about domesticating a cat without any tin tuna. You need to buy a box of Dreamies from Sainsbury's. I can tell you something. There's about 15 cats that aren't our cats

that keep coming into our garden and coming into our house. If you don't want the cat to come towards you they'll come towards you that's the rule just look aloof and then you'll be surrounded by cats and although he initially suffered from deep depression after 18 months he became as he described it thoroughly reconciled to his condition so chris is how you say how would you feel he said it took about 18 months of sadness. And then he was like, OK, this is my lot. I'm OK with this.

And then suddenly, at this point, a ship hoves into view. Oh, my God. Excitement. Great. I'm saved. I'm saved. Oh, no, it's a Spanish vessel. The problem with this is that would have meant certain death.

What? OK, so he was then forced to hide and let the ship pass. I may remind you, his previous job was a British buccaneer looting Spanish ships. Oh, yes. So very much the enemy. He had to hide. They were on the island for a while. Eventually they leave. And it wasn't the only time this happened.

On another occasion, another Spanish ship comes. He thinks, oh, I'm going to be saved. Spanish people come onto shore. They spot him this time. He has to run into the forest away from the captors. He hides up a tree only for two of the Spaniards to have a piss

at the bottom of the tree. But luckily, they do not look up and they don't see him in the branches above. But that would have been the end of him. But then finally...

I wonder if they destroyed his shelter because can you imagine how heartbreaking that would be? Horrendous. That's such a good point. Taking all your stuff.

Making me a cat. Chased away the cats yeah exactly um but then finally on the 2nd of february 1709 so this is four years and four months after he first got there a british vessel the duke commanded by woods rogers lands on the island and they are able to rescue selkirk and rogers later wrote the selkirk was ecstatic with joy and when given the choice to stay or leave selkirk did notgers later wrote the selkirk was ecstatic with joy and when given the choice to stay or leave selkirk did not hesitate which to me doesn't sound that surprising i don't know what answer he was expecting at that point how attached he'd have to be to the cats he'd think no i'm gonna stay here selkirk is taken onto this boat he's immediately made a senior member of rogers crew they just think this guy's amazing he He survived. This guy has such incredible skills.

And they escalate him up the ladder and they make him a really senior member on this boat that's rescued him. And when he eventually arrives in Britain in 1711, so they sailed around the world there for a couple more years before he gets home again. That would piss me off. It's annoying when you're getting on a long-haul flight

and it's delayed by an hour. Yeah. Yes, absolutely. Oh, come on guys come on i wonder if the conditions were like his first ship and he was like to be honest i prefer the island to these mildewed sheets no this is a much better ship it has far more success and he actually is successful they they great make some great plunders he makes great wealth from it himself but nothing compared to when he gets home because he gets home after eight years away and suddenly he becomes this huge celebrity he's this guy who's lived on

an island alone wow like an action hero and he suddenly makes this windfall of money people are writing books about him he's he's being um you know appearing at events he's just making loads of money and suddenly becomes very very wealthy but. But what's interesting about it, okay, is he really struggled with this fame and this new life so much so that he said, I'm going back to sea again. So after all that, he has all this wealth, huge house, no need to work at all,

everything he needs, but he decides after a couple of years, I can't do this. And he goes back to sea and eventually i don't get this guy i cannot relate to this man at all he has skills i will never have and attitudes that i do not share have a day off man joins the royal navy he serves aboard the hms weymouth which is engaged in anti-piracy patrols off the coast of West Africa.

And then he was on board that ship in 1721. At the age of 45, he contracted yellow fever and he died. And as the ship's log recorded, December the 13th, 1721, north to northwest, small breeze and fair, took three Englishmen out of a Dutch ship. And at 8pm, Alexander Selkirk died. And as always in these situations,

which is always what happened when you died at sea, they just lobbed his body overboard. That's what happened. That was the end of it. I think they buried him at sea rather than lobbed him overboard. Do you want to be buried at sea or lobbed overboard? That's a very good point, Ellis. That's a very good point. A bit of dignity to the man.

They gently placed him... Because you lob a tennis ball okay not a body okay they lovingly placed him in nature's coffin to see okay so i i was just thinking about that if i was feeling peaky the amount of times i'd be saying to people beforehand if you are gonna put me in the sick do just check i am dead before you yeah drop me in the ocean please do check however final thing would you like to know the perfect twist in all of this yeah selkirk had been right about the sunk ports and how safe it was all those years ago and it did in fact sink off the coast of peru drowning everyone but for a

handful of the crew wow so had he stayed on that boat there's a good chance that would have been the end of him all those many years ago that is a good fact that's amazing so so that is the story of the man who some believe inspired robertson crusoe mr alexander selkirk a man who could not be any different from ellis What does possible sound like for your business? It's having to spend to power your scale with no preset spending limit. Redefine possible with Business Platinum. That's the powerful backing of American Express. Terms and conditions apply.

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Please play responsibly. If you or someone you know has concerns about gambling, visit connectsontario.ca. Are you ready to hear about Violet Jessop? Now, we're going to touch on the Titanic here. But before we do, let's begin on another white star line vessel, the RMS Olympic. Now, Violet Jessop, she is an Irish-Argentinian stewardess. She works for the white star line.

And she began her seafaring career aboard the RMS Olympic. She was working as a stewardess when, in September 1911, as the RMS Olympic was emerging from Southampton Harbour, it struck HMS Hawk and was forced to return to port. On that occasion, there were no fatalities. The ship survived. But it was a foreshadowing of far worse to come. That was accident one of three.

This is an incredible story of survival. Now, accident two of three, you an incredible story of survival now accident two of three you would have undoubtedly heard of she was transferred from the olympic onto a little boat called oh no the rms titanic oh dear i'm this is the first time it's really come up the titanic on this podcast and yeah i couldn't tell you the hours I've spent in my mind thinking about how I would deal with a Titanic disaster. And I've come to the conclusion, you need to be getting into one of those early lifeboats, man.

You cannot be farting around. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think that's pretty obvious, isn't it, really? What were your other options? Trying to glue the two bits of the boat back together? Go. Slow down, dickheadhead there's icebergs there's freezing

those icebergs are massive my wife's a theatre producer and a few years ago she cast in a play the guy in the film Titanic not the guy

in the crow's nest who goes iceberg right ahead he's the guy who picks up the phone and goes thanks very much oh yeah and I was like He's the guy who picks up the phone and goes, thanks very much. And I was like,

that's the guy who says, thanks very much. Was she actively looking for that guy? Was she watching Titanic and she thought, that guy's good. That's the one. That's the one. And when he got the job he picked up the phone and went, thanks very much. So Violet Jessop was 24 years old. She had a shock of ginger hair

thick Irish accent she had already survived tuberculosis as a child which doctors thought would cut her life short but it did not so the night of the 13th slash 14th of April 1912

the Titanic oh man such a I mean such an evocative night I think all of us in some way are obsessed with this disaster. Violet lived through it. She is comfortably drowsy in her bunk.

The iceberg hits the Titanic. She's ordered up onto the deck to assist with marshalling the evacuation. She's working, like I say, she's a stewardess. So she goes onto the deck, women and children first. She watches women cling to their husbands, she recalled, years later, before being put into the boats with their children. Women and children first was something I worried about a lot. Right.

I always thought, is that going to happen to me on a boat? As a child, though, Chris, is the one time you shouldn't be worried about women and children first. But I thought, when does that pass expire? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Okay. 16?

Conscription. Another thing I worried about. Yes, I worried about conscription as a kid. Is that why you've always dressed really young, Chris? But like sort of dungarees, like a really little kid. It's why I've spent thousands on Botox. Just in case. Poor patrol truck suit.

Velcro shoes. Whenever I get on a boat, I get on one of those suitcases that kids, like, wheel themselves, you know. A trunkie. That's my suitcase. Hello, sir. Room on this boat for me. I have a dream, and I mean this. I know this might probably sound selfish, but it's not really selfish. It impacts a lot of people.

I think it should be women, children and podcasters first. Do you agree? I think that's what it should become. We're going to need to keep morale up on this boat. Yeah. Is there anyone here who's got any banter? Someone needs to report what happens and in a really accessible medium.

Yeah. We need podcasters. You never hear that called out on a flight. Is there anyone with any banter on board? This is an emergency. Please leave. It's a banter emergency oh man i used to worry about conscription as well yeah i've thought about that a great deal the titanic had 2 225 people on board of which 710 survived 498 passengers and 212 crew where you were the class the class you were in kind of dictated whether or not you were likely to survive i'm sure we all remember this

when learning about the titanic there were 140 women in first class 98 of those survived. But there were, in third class, only 75 men survived and 387 men in third class died. That's 16% of the men in third class survived. Bloody hell. Wow. But interestingly, of the crew, 192 men survived, 694 died. So only 22% of the male crew survived. And there were 23 female crew of which

violet jessup was one 20 of the women survived and three died so 87 percent of the female crew survived people of which violet jessup was one three didn't survive the disaster female crew lucy snape age 22 a stewardess katherine wallace 36 a hospital matron and kate walsh 42 a stewardess they did not survive violet jessup story so she's ordered onto lifeboat 16 and she was ordered on basically to show women it was safe so she was brought on board the boat was lowered miss jessup was handed a baby as the baby was dropped down to be looked after she said a bundle was dropped in my into my lap for eight hours the boat bobbed up and down in the water awaiting rescue,

which was made by the Carpathia, of course. And you don't think about that. I often think about the people who died in that frozen, frigid sea. But that happened quite instantly. The survivors were on those lifeboats for eight hours, freezing cold. Wow.

Yeah, of course. Horrendous. And Violet Jessop, so she described clutching the baby against her hard cork lifebelt. And then she recalled when the Carpathia rescued them, a woman leapt to her and grabbed the baby and rushed off with it. And she says, I was too frozen and numb to think it strange that this woman had not stopped to say thank you. And the baby has an interesting story.

The baby on board was Asad Tanis, an infant son of Ikanda and Thamin Tanis. They were from a small village in the north of Lebanon. So the baby went on to survive. Violet herself returned to England and during the First World War she became a nurse working for the Red Cross. And now she moves to the third White Star Line ship. She was transported aboard a Titanic sister ship, Britannic, which had been converted from passenger use into a hospital ship in the First World War. This is the third sister ship that she's been on board.

It was the first where I linked. I didn't realise. Tom, Tom, have you heard the phrase, lightning never strikes twice? All right, lightning strikes twice. I right, lightning strikes twice. I think I'd start temping or something.

I would be like, just get me the most boring job. Data entry. One thing that I do know about the Titanic was that Charles Lightoller, he was second officer on the Titanic. He was involved in the Dunkirk evacuations. And I find that amazing. In fact, the character I read of Mark Rylance in Dunkirk, the film, is based on Charles Lightoller, who was on the Titanic.

I don't know if you've seen Dunkirk. And it amazed me that someone had been involved in such historic moments. But of course, if your trade is working in the sea, like Violet Jessop, this is your trade. Of course, you're going to be in a lot of boats. And especially during this time, those boats are in a lot of incidents so maybe it's not so weird is what i'm trying to say so on the 21st of november 1916 she's on board the britannic when it hits a german mine in the adriatic sea sank in under an hour claimed 30 lives from the 1066 on board which

actually isn't that bad i don't think it's quite an impressive rate of survival there. But remarkably, Jessup was not the only Titanic survivor serving on the Britannic that day. Arthur Priest, Feynman and Stoker, Archie Jewell had been one of Titanic's lookouts. They were there as well, and all three survived once again. As a lookout,

if you miss that iceberg, and then you... and it happens again, and you miss that iceberg and then you and it happens again and you miss the german mind questions have to be asked what are you looking at you're on your phone a lot mate but jessup's story of survival from the britannic is pretty incredible. So she gets on the boat, the lifeboat, to escape. But the lifeboat gets caught up in the churn of the ship's propellers as it begins going down.

And it begins chewing them up. She had to dive out of the lifeboat into the water to escape. These are her words. I leapt into the water but was sucked under the ship's keel, which struck my head. She sustained a skull fracture, Wow. And Violet surfaced in time to see the Britannic, the White Star Line's pride of the ocean's kind of medical world. She saw that ship go under.

She said, that ship go under she said the ship dipped her head a little then lower and lower all the deck machinery fell into the sea like child's toys and then she took a fearful plunge her stern rearing hundreds of feet into the air until with a final roar she disappeared into the depths so in all violet jessup survived accidents or sinkings on all three of the olympclass vessels. What an incredible story. Survival or bad luck. I have two little things on that. First of all, change the name from the Britannic. Why?

After the Titanic's gone down. It's too similar, surely. Surely you've got to take that off. You've got to go with something completely new. The watermelon or something nothing like it. She lived till she was 83. Yeah? Yeah. Second thing, I know i know weirdly watched a youtube video this week about how realistic scenes were from submarine movies hosted by a guy who was a submarine captain in the navy and he talked about why the titanic and ships sink in that way when they go head first and then suddenly plunge down

it's because water is taken on at the bottom of the boat where the hole is so the base of the boat gets flooded basically the front end will tip and what is actually happening is all the water that's inside the boat is now rushing down the boat to the front end which is lower and that's what makes it tip up does that make sense yeah yeah yeah so that that is it's actually water that's concealed in the boat which is rushing down and filling the front of the boat which is what makes the back end uh tip up. Does that make sense? It's actually water that's concealed in the boat, which is rushing down and filling the front of the boat, which is what makes the back end tip up and why it goes down at that sort of straight angle.

I could have told you that having had a bath in my life and played with a toy boat. I just had a look at Wikipedia. Years after her retirement, Jessop claimed to have received a phone call on a stormy night from a woman who asked Jessop

if she'd saved a baby on the night that the Titanic sank. Yes, Jessop replied. The voice then said, I was that baby, laughed and hung up. Her friend and biographer, John Maxton Graham, said it was most likely some children in the village playing a joke on her. She replied, No,

John, I'd never told that story to anyone before I told you now. Ah, here we go. Records indicate that the only baby on lifeboat 16 was Asad Thomas, who was handed to Edwina Trout and later reunited with his mother on the Carpathia, where Asad Thomas died on the 12th of June 1931, so would not have been the person making the telephone call. So if it is a prank, what a mad prank to play.

A weird prank to play on someone. Yeah. She lived until she was 83. Just. What year would that have been

then? What year did she die? 71 she died. 1971. Question you've got to ask with stories like that

why wasn't she doing stand-up? She's got three great Edinburgh shows there well that's it for this week thank you so much for listening

if you want to get in touch with us about custard castado Jeremy Bentham being on stage with us you know what to do

hello at owhATime.com. And if you want the fourth part, and from next month, the 1st of May, two bonus episodes every month, why not become an Oh What Time full-timer? To sign up, go to OhWhatATime.com. There's actually one bit of admin I'm going to clear up now. I realise I'm quite OCD about numbering every episode we've done.

But in the early bonus episodes, we're not numbered. So I'm going OCD about numbering every episode we've done. But in the early bonus episodes, we're not numbered. So I'm going to go back and I'm going to apply a new number to those early bonus episodes. So next week we might jump forward a few numbers just so we can catalogue every show accurately. What do you think about that? Chris

loves to archive. Can I be honest, Chris? I don't know what to think about it or how to feel. I don't know what... It just bothered me because I started thinking about what episode 100 might be in a long time. And I was like, well, it won't actually be 100 because we've done it in previous episodes that didn't get a number.

So I'm going to... You might notice it's skipped forward a few. There you go. It's out there now. Do you know what I'm looking forward to episode 69 oh no oh boy oh a sex episode

it has to be something to look forward to episode 69 subject great ideas sorry that's too rude we'll see you next week bye Sorry, that's too rude. We'll see you next week. Bye. Thank you.