Oh What A Time... - #48 Speeches (Part 2)

Episode Date: May 27, 2024

This is Part 2! For Part 1, check the feed from yesterday! Let’s point our ears in the direction of some of the greatest oratory from history, because this week we’re discussing: Speeches. Henry V’s St Crispin’s Day speech (both in fiction and non-fiction), Elizabeth I at Tilbury and the campaigning of John Petts. We found out this week that Tom Craine’s favourite speech was performed by THAT guy from Come Dine With Me. Can you name a better speech? On this and anything else, you can email us at: [e-mail] If you're impatient and want both parts in one lovely go next time plus a whole lot more(!), why not treat yourself and become an Oh What A Time: FULL TIMER? In exchange for your £4.99 per month to support the show, you'll get: - two bonus episodes every month! - ad-free listening - episodes a week ahead of everyone else - And first dibs on any live show tickets Subscriptions are available via AnotherSlice, Apple and Spotify. For all the links head to: ohwhatatime.com You can also follow us on:  X (formerly Twitter) at @ohwhatatimepod And Instagram at @ohwhatatimepod Aaannnd if you like it, why not drop us a review in your podcast app of choice? Thank you to Dan Evans for the artwork (idrawforfood.co.uk). Chris, Elis and Tom x Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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This is part two of speeches and let's get on with it. So today I am going to talk to you, lovely, lovely boys, about the speech-making powers of Elizabeth I. Okay? Now, Chris earlier talked about Henry V. And ten years before Shakespeare sat down to write Henry V, Elizabeth I was on the throne. So that's where we are, sort of, time-wise. And she was about to give her most famous speech. Now, do you know what speech that is for a point?

No, no idea. I've had no idea about Elizabeth I's speech. The one where she says, all my possessions for a moment in time. It is to troops gathered at Tilbury in Essex. Oh, okay. Ahead of the Spanish Armada arriving. So I don't know, first of all, how that makes you feel, Chris,

that this important speech happened in Essex. Are you, as someone who's proud... I've been to Tilbury, and my abiding memory of it is it's a lorry park. Right. Well, it wasn't then. I think lorries stopped there on the way to France, maybe. It's just weird to me, that clash of time, to think that amongst all those lorries, Elizabeth I

once stood and gave a great speech. Oh, I love that. She does reference Eddie Stobart three times in the year. Does the speech begin? The traffic on the A13 this morning has been a nightmare. Sorry I'm late.

Elizabeth's first gear, you can call me. I think all my possessions for a moment of time were meant to be her last words on her deathbed, apocryphally. All my possessions for a moment of time. That is beautiful. That's amazing, isn't it? That's a great final line, to be fair.

I think it's not guaranteed that she said that, but still it's an amazing quote. Yeah. What's your final words, Gabriel? And you, Chris? Okay. Mine will be something like,

put down the iPhone, spend time with your friends. Something like that will really impact the person who hears it. All right. Is that a dinosaur? the person who hears it. All right. Is that a dinosaur? This speech,

which was written in the summer of 1588 as England awaited the Spanish Armada, which threatened the country with invasion and replacing Elizabeth, who was a Protestant, with King Philip II,

who was a Catholic and her half-brother. It made me think about this for a start, that she's writing this with this prospect of an invading force coming to kill and dethrone her royals back then they had to put up with stuff to be fair to them they had quite big things to deal with the idea of an army wanting to invade and kill is compared to what royals have to deal with now is yeah do

you know what i mean it's i i know they had a life where they could have whatever they want and they had huge castles full of courtiers and all the food they wanted, but the idea of other countries trying to dethrone you and kill you is a thing quite often. I'd rather just keep my head down and not live in a palace, but also not have an army trying to attack me

and dethrone me and kill me. I just want to get on. I just want to be left alone, really. I can handle a gloryless life. Do you know what? On that note, it took me so long to work out that that's what castles were for, really. Like, to protect you when people were coming to kill you.

That's such a basic question. Yes. I didn't think I really clocked that's what they were for. I don't think it's adequately explained to kids because I was obsessed with castles as a child. Summer holidays were sort of based around places in the UK that

had a good castle. That is true actually. I always thought a moat was just quite a nice sort of garden design. It's just quite a pleasant thing to have geese in or whatever. Not a thing to hit your head on your body. You know, it's there to give you a chance to survive. It could have been both.

Yeah, that's very true. Yeah, functional and beautiful. Thank you, Ellis. So on the 9th of August, Elizabeth appeared in full armor uh in tilbury with a plumed helmet mounted on a gray horse this is how she looked before giving her speech i think we could agree that that will always suggest confidence at the beginning of any speech like skull if you turned up at a work thing you had to give a speech about i don't know

what it would be if you turned up on a work thing, you had to give a speech about, I don't know what it would be. If you turned up on a white horse, people are going to close their laptops. Yeah. A big plume on your head. I'm going to go, I'm going to listen to this person. What's this guy do? He does podcasts about 90s football and sort of history with a Welsh guy and a loser.

But he's on a horse, so I am going to miss him. This is really good. Next to her stood a courtier who carried the great sword of state, which is not unlike the sword recently seen at Charles III's coronation. And her intention when preparing this speech was to impress upon the people, basically, that she was capable of leading the fight against the enemy, that she was Gloriana in person, as people would describe it, a modern day Athena, basically. She was wise,

she was ready for war, this was the idea. But what it essentially was, was an exercise in propaganda, that's what it was. Because by this point, Elizabeth was, she didn't really have a sort of successful war hero vibe about her, shall we say. She was comfortably into middle age. Her hair was shaved and greying, but covered in a ginger wig. Her skin was layered with makeup to cover pox scars. She'd been so affected by the pox.

And her teeth were rotten and black with decay. Which, I think it's, we've talked about this before with my worries about kissing people from the past, but it's the rotting teeth which for me is a big issue with living in the past. That's the thing, like, the fact that your teeth are just giving

up the ghost when you hit 25, basically. They've gone. Because I quite like the freedom of being able to eat almonds whenever I like. Yeah, exactly. You know what know what like in this day and age it's always whenever there's a big election come around comes around and we're about to see it in the u.s the election between two quite elderly people the conversation is always like can are they up to the job job physically and there's always an analysis of what they actually look like and their physical characteristics it like it's incredible to think of elizabeth the first being the leader of the

nation she comes out and what you've just described top it's hard to imagine anyone more decrepit almost black like you know you're not going to vote for that person however as historians will point out about this though which is a fair point, you have to remember that I think basically everyone looked haggard. So at least you'd go, look at her teeth and you'd realise, oh no, I've got identical teeth. She's my teeth twit. She's got black teeth. I have no teeth. Showing off.

I had a scale and polish at the hygienist yesterday. If I went back to Elizabeth the first time, it's really comforting to know that I would be Britain's most handsome man. Yes. I wonder how old they would say you were if you went back. Yeah. It's like a big bearded

five-year-old boy. You can easily tour the country and make money by just letting people look at you. Yeah, there you go. Open your mouth, you get a minute to look in the gob, and you get whatever medieval a groat or whatever it would be, or half a turnip. So, in keeping with established protocol, Elizabeth progressed through the waiting crowds, and then you'll like this, Al, this is a nice touch.

She then paused for a moment of silence before delivering her speech now Elle will know when it comes to stand up having the confidence to pause at the beginning of your set has a huge impact on how the crowd view you I was always so nervous I'm basically talking as I was approaching the microphone yeah yeah yeah I'd be like a meter away from the microphone and I'd already be talking as I was approaching the microphone. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'd be like a metre away from the microphone and I'd already be doing my first joke. It was... I mean, I'm completely off mic. You'd hear the punchline as I come. And that was three ducks in a row.

It's like, no, no. The set-up was at the other end of the stage to one person who heard it. There was a comedian. I won't name him because I think he's a really talented bloke. But he used to get really nervous and I was introducing him in Bristol once and I said,

and he came on and he gripped my hand like vicars grip your hand at the end of a sermon, right? And he was shaking my hand and he was staring at me and the crowd was still, I'd whipped them up, so the crowd was still clapping and cheering, waiting for the show to start.

And I was a bit confused because the handshake took too long. And after about 10 minutes, he said to me, well, he mouthed to me as they're still clapping and cheering. I am settling myself. I am very, very nervous. I am settling myself. So I just let him shake my hand until he was ready. Oh, it's quite funny. So, right, if someone owned that and just came on and shook the compere's hand for about a minute and a half,

I would find that funny. I'd go, OK, that's quite maverick. It would be the Stuart Lee thing of it would initially start off being funny, and then it would stop being funny and then eventually it would become funny again. But my god, you've really got to stick to your guns. I remember watching Joe Lycett. He came

out and he started and he just put his drink down and he just stood there and waited for like 15 seconds or something and then started. And I remember at that time thinking, oh, you can do that. And that's what changed it, basically. Just like a lightbulb moment of, okay, don't you keep talking immediately to come on stage. Oh, arenas.

Yeah. What are you doing? Doing all right. Passion project. So, now, what Elizabeth said comes to us in the form of a letter sent to the Duke of Buckingham by Lionel Sharp, who was then the chaplain to the Earl of Essex and he was present at Tilbury and in every version of the speech the most famous line now you will know this line I know I have the body but of a weak feeble woman but I have the heart and stomach

of a king and a king of England too now that's a famous line from it and it's present in basically all historical commentary and anecdotes and references to this speech. It's basically, it's clear that that line was present, that that really was said aloud by her. And most significantly, Elizabeth wrote the speech herself. She wrote her own speeches. As someone who makes a fair amount of my living writing jokes for quite big comedians, I'm not really for that.

I can't back that as an idea. I don't like people writing their own stuff. That's putting me out of work. It's annoying. How good would she have been if she'd had writers? Tom Crane and Matthew Crosby in a writer's room in Central London with all the diet coke they need. It would have been far more pun heavy, her speech.

But, you know, there's a charm to that. It's great to be back here in Tilbury again. They say you played Tilbury twice in your career. Yeah, very nice. So, however, and this is, it is a big however, okay? And not a lot of people know this. And this is one of my, I think it's one of the favorite facts i've found since start we started this podcast okay there's always been this idea of this speech by elizabeth the first at tilbury as being this triumphant thing that led

the army to victory however that isn't the case i love this although she'd written the speech as invasion was imminent she actually delivered it 11 days after the battle had ended did she by which point the spanish armada was somewhere off this coast of scotland the timing of it was later adjusted to suit the narrative of her leading the troops to victory so she was surrounded surrounded by troops, but it was all over. No way. Imagine delivering that speech when you know it's over. And also imagine listening to that speech and going, I mean, what is this? It's all done.

That's absolutely amazing. That has blown my mind. That is amazing. I wouldn't know what face to pull if I was in the front row. What are you doing? I don't know what's like... That's extraordinary. We will fight to the death for you.

That's like something out of Blackadder by the fourth, actually. Isn't it? It really is, yeah. So the Armada were way up in Scotland. Now, briefly, Tilbury was the most famous speech given by Elizabeth, but it wasn't the only one she wrote or delivered. During her reign, she spoke in public numerous times, with text

surviving in various forms sometimes in her own writing um she was known to show off sometimes in her speeches for example in a visit to cambridge university in 1564 she gave a speech to university members in latin even though there was no call to do that which seems a bit twatty come on yeah we get it it feels like she's going i'm as bright as you just to let you know um which according to records left the audience this is a quote marvelously astonished but i think if you're watching the queen as someone who could quite easily have you beheaded you're gonna go yeah if you're if your vox popped afterwards you're saying you like it her final public address took place in 1601 before Parliament

and brought together all the skills she'd gained over a lifetime. But what's quite interesting about this, the way she described herself had now changed. So whereas at Tilbury, she'd insisted that she was the equal of a king, now after a life of sort of victory and power and success, she stated she was in fact the superior example of a royal ruler so her perception of her role and the presence of her gender had shifted so she said we think ourselves most fortunately born under such a star as we have been enabled by god's

power to have saved you under our reign from foreign foes from tyrants rule and for your own So by the end, she had such a perception of herself as if she really believed herself to be this person who had led and saved this country and really was a gift to the nation from God. How interesting. Nice to view yourself like that at the end, isn't it? I can't think I'll be seeing myself as a gift to the nation from God. my topic this week it's a far more serious topic i think um so i'm going to take you back to 1963. now the 16th street baptist church bombing was a terrorist bombing of the 16th street baptist church in birmingham alabama on september the 15th 1963. now a Birmingham, Alabama, on September the 15th, 1963. Now, a lot of our listeners will have heard of this and they might have studied it at school.

It was committed by a white supremacist group, so four members of the local Ku Klux Klan planted dynamite and four girls were killed and injured between 14 and 22 other people. Now, this terrorist atrocity, it rocked the world. The whole world stopped and it motivated people many thousands of miles away in ways that you might not have imagined. So in the aftermath of the bombing, the Cardiff-based newspaper, the Western Mail, launched a fundraising campaign to replace some of the stained glass that had been shattered by the deadly explosion.

As the Carmarthenshire-based but London-born artist, John Petz, basically someone who's done what is known in the trade as a reverse Ellis, who lived between 1914 and 1991, put it. The Alabama outrage has appalled the whole world. Perhaps Wales can show the way to other nations and even win support from many white Americans by making the first move to recreate this damaged church. Now, Petz, who was then living in Llanstefan,

which is very near where I grew up, a few miles from Dylan Thomas's favourite holiday retreat at Llan, heard about the bombing while listening to BBC Radio News bulletins. Now, a lot of our listeners wouldn't have heard of Llan Steffan. Very nice place to visit. Lovely little beach there. And I'm going to give you a gift. This is one of my favorite jokes it's been making me laugh for approximately 27 years i was in the pub with a lot of my mates when i was about 17 or 18 and we were talking about lan stefan castle which is a norman castle and we were all very drunk and my friend uh came up with the idea that we get some spray paint from somewhere. You've told this

Oh, have I told this, have I? Yes. I don't remember. Get a cab to Dunstaffer Castle and write Normaniad Mass, which means Norman's out on the castle and pretend it's been a piece of graffiti that's been here for like a thousand years and I went past Dunstaffer, I was visiting

my parents the other day and I went past Dunanswether castle on the train and i still find it as funny now as i did in 1997 so yeah just a lovely little gift for you there now petra was then uh living in clanswether as i said you would go on to design and make the wales window for alabama which was installed at the rebuilt 16th street baptist early 1965. So his message to the church at the time was this. Our deeply felt wish is that this window will stand high in your church for many years to come, its colours shining with the glory of the great simple truth which must prevail, that all men are brothers and that God is love. Now there's a little detail here which I think is really nice.

The newspaper, the West Mail, had allowed a maximum donation of half a crown to make up the expected cost of the window, which was 500 quid. So that made it a genuinely popular effort, with queues of children from Cardiff's docklands appearing outside the paper's offices with whatever could be afforded, including their pocket money. No! So children were chipping into this overseas effort for a stained glass window? Yes, because they were so horrified at what had caused it to be damaged. So as the Western Mail's then editor, David Cole, told Pets on the phone,

we don't want some rich man as a gesture paying for the whole window. We want it to be given by the people of Wales. In fact, by the time the fund had closed, they'd raised 900 quid, which is about 16 grand in today's terms. Whoa! Do you think there is something particular about Wales and the feeling of community? And also, it's quite left-leaning politically, isn't it, really? It's, you know, that would lead to children having that feeling of... Or do you think that's... I wonder if there is something particular to that, to the nation?

Do you know what? The Welsh patriotic part of me would like to say yes, but I actually think that communal effort is actually a very, very human instinct. Because when there are natural disasters, when natural disasters occur all over the world, it is people's first instinct to help. Like when there's

a terrible flood or something, the people in the surrounding areas whose houses have survived tend not to go, well, I'm alright actually, so I'm probably just going to chill out. But I think that there was, I mean, in the 60s, Wales was still a very chapel-going country,

very communal because of industry and stuff. So I don't know, but I mean no more so than lots of other places. But I just really like the fact that it's a genuinely popular effort. I think that's really significant. So once the money was in hand, a telegram was sent to Alabama with an offer. The people of Wales offered to recreate and erect a stained glass window to replace the one shattered in the bombing of your church. They do this as a gesture of comfort and support.

And a reply soon arrived accepting the offer. Imagine if they'd said, no, we're fine, actually. And noting that Wales was the only country to offer such direct and material assistance. Wow. Maybe we are the best. Yeah. Well, that does suggest that, doesn't it? Yeah.

Now, the window as installed in Birmingham is a striking image of a black Jesus on the cross beneath a rainbow. And there are bullets apparent in the top beam of the cross too, which represent those people shot in Sharpeville, South Africa. And so the window connects the civil rights movement with the anti-apartheid movement. So cast otherwise in blue, the colour of divine contemplation,

the window was themed, let there be light. So Petz took a verse from the Bible, Matthew 25, 40, truly as I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these, my brothers, you did it to me. And set the final refrain to window you do it to me so these those were the words the then pastor of the church john cross had intended to say on that day in september 1963 pet is a very interesting character so he he was reported

as being motivated by imagining um the murdered people as his own you know as a father as you would often say later when yes but he had memories of being a conscientious objector during the Second World War as well. And conscientious objectors, I think they deserve an episode because it's a really interesting position to take, I think, especially during the Second World War, being a conscientious objector. So at that time, he was sent to work on a farm in Derbyshire,

and during one period, he ended up with severe sunburn, which scarred him for the rest of his life it was impossible to complain he explained later the answer would have been you shut your mouth men are dying out there which I think is a very self-aware thing to say isn't it yes yeah yeah absolutely because it's very difficult to go yeah it was a bloody nightmare actually I was picking potatoes in Derbyshire and look at that my wife's grandad was in the second world war was sent to Burma and he really scarred his head

from the they had no sun cream and he was in Burma and so he really burned his head and he had like yeah he had a scarred head for the rest of his life yeah

wow how mad's that? You never really think about that in the second world war, is it? Like it's sent to somewhere and it's just really hot and you have no sun cream because it's 1943. Yeah. Do bear that in mind if you're popping in the one day time machine. You will need to bring your own sun cream.

We could pop some in the glove box. You could bring your own sun cream. And then, especially if you're like a pale Caucasian, people would be like, Jesus Christ, that guy's amazing in the sun. Yeah. I thought it was like a real hat time, though, post-war. I thought everyone was wearing hats all the time. I thought that was a thing. Yeah, I mean, if you'd lost your hat and you're in Burma,

they're hardly likely to go, don't worry about it. Send you off to the shop. You can buy another one. It's fine. This heat is terrible, actually, especially at midday. Now, his experiences with forced labour resonated with what he learnt of race relations in the American South. So the terrible thing, he said, is that you never considered you had any rights at all. So you were overworked and endured conditions that no one else

would have endured. Now, before it was sent to the United States, the window was revealed at Thompson House in Cardiff on the 4th of February 1965. Thompson House incidentally is still there, it's right in the middle of town. There was an unveiling ceremony led by the then Lord Mayor of the city, the Conservative alderman William John Hartland and Hartland handed it to the US Consul General Leon Cowles who was originally from Salt Lake City in Utah and the design had been shown previously at the National Stethavod in Swansea, which is an enormous Welsh language cultural festival,

which I used to go to as a kid and actually went last year. It's really striking, isn't it, that a tragedy, that something that can just discuss people from across the Atlantic and can motivate young children to give their pocket money.

Yeah. I think that's a really, really, I think that's a really, really amazing thing. So, yeah amazing thing so yeah well i suppose that's so important with these any of these moments it's it's the hope it's the the love the kindness that is shown in these moments of horror from you know those affected and those who simply are aware of it you know that that's that that kind of it's it's that thing that love love love will win isn't it know, that's the kind of, it's that thing that love will win, isn't it? I suppose that's the thing. That's the kind of the hope of it, isn't it?

That's such a human thing. Also, I think nowadays, these things are easier to organise because of social media. Whereas then, obviously it was done by print media, which had such, I mean, the influence print media had on public life was so much greater back in the 60s but you know it's like it's the kind of thing that now would be done on twitter

or instagram but back then obviously people were having to send in uh letters with checks and postal orders and all sorts of stuff it's just it's it's it's very much of his time but it's a really interesting thing and as someone who studied Welsh history in the 60s, I only had a very, very brief memory of this, so it was really interesting to read up on it. I think that the power or the effect of a stained glass window

can be incredible. Have you been to the Sagrada Familia? No, where's that? You've heard of this? It is a church in Barcelona, exactly. It's designed by Gaudi, the Catalan architect. And it's all... The idea, there's no straight lines. It's supposed to sort of reflect nature,

but it has huge stained glass windows in there. It's 20th century, it's built. They're still working on it now. But it is... I think it's one of the few times that I've, I couldn't quite believe what I was seeing. The light in there, it's just beautiful in a way that I hadn't really encountered before. I went to a gig at the Union Chapel in Islington, North London, a couple of weeks ago. And I've seen all sorts of stuff there.

I've seen bands there I've performed stand-up there and I was there and obviously now we're going into the spring so it was still light and the house lights were up and I'd only I'd only ever been there either when it was dark when I was performing and obviously the house lights were down and I hadn't really appreciated how beautiful a building it was. And you think to yourself, Christ, people really, really love religion and it really moves them to build fantastic buildings, doesn't it? And that's the one thing. When you go to a great cathedral in Abiyos, you think, Christ, the amount of love and effort that has gone into this. And you realise how it motivates people.

Like I like Greggs, but I've never gone into a Greggs and gone, this is a really, really beautiful building. Can I make my number one complaint about the Sagrada Familia, please? This I can't wait to hear. They started building it in 1882. number one complaint about the Sagrada Familia, please? This I can't wait to hear. They started building it in 1882, where 142 years later, they're still building it. Talk about dodgy builders. There's no way that's the estimate they gave at the beginning as well.

It will take 140 years. If someone said to me, this is going to take 142 years to fit, I would go, you're at least 141 years too much there in your estimate. As if it, I don't understand. I don't, when I first heard this, I didn't understand it. I sit here now, I don't understand it. Why is it taking so long? But have you been to it? I've been to it probably 2006, I would say, 18 years ago.

So they've had 18 years. They've had 18 years since I saw been to it probably 2006, I would say, 18 years ago. So they've had 18 years. They've had 18 years since I saw it, and it was under construction then. When I went 18 years ago, they'd been having a go for over 100 years back then. We're 142 years on. It's art, isn't it? And, you know, they're trying to make it as wonderful as they possibly can. And for people like me with a heart and a love for life, I reckon you go, I've got no complaints.

You've got to get on with it. Get your one-day time machine. You go at any point in the last 142 years to the Sagrada Familia, you're going to see builders sitting around having a faggy sandwich. Do you know what? You know the London Stadium where West Ham United now play? Yeah. Obviously.

We knocked that together, Sharpish. Well, you didn't knock it together, did you? The 2012 Olympics knocked it together, and then you just moved in. But it was done for the 2012 Olympics, of course. And the initial plans, from what I understand, I don't know if chris you can confirm this was that there was going to be there were going to be enormous screens around the outside

of the building so that you could see the track so you could see i don't know 100 meters of the fauna or whatever from outside on these screens that were attached to the walls they were going to be massive and then they couldn't get they couldn't get it done on time. And Sebco basically said, fuck it. At what point does Goudy say, fuck it? Let it go. Let it go. Alright, fine, we won't. That's all you need, is for someone to say, okay, fine, we won't.

And now it's done. Now it's done. Anyway, that's the end of this week's episode. Thank you so much for listening. Obviously, if you would like to hear bonus episodes, you can sign up and become an Oh What A Time full-timer. Chris, how do they do that? You can become an Oh What A Time full-timer by going to ohwhatatime.com

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