Oh What A Time... - #54 Music (Part 1)

Episode Date: June 30, 2024

Fire up the orchestra because this week you’ll be listening to us talk about: Music. We’ve got for you the ancient music of Antiquity, Richard the Lionheart and his banging tunes and the history of songs being sung on the terraces. Lots and lots of chat this week about what it would be like to be trapped in a prison made of trifle. If you’ve got anything to add to the conversation, you can email us at: [e-mail] If you're impatient and want both parts in one lovely go next time plus a whole lot more(!), why not treat yourself and become an Oh What A Time: FULL TIMER? In exchange for your £4.99 per month to support the show, you'll get: - two bonus episodes every month! - ad-free listening - episodes a week ahead of everyone else - And first dibs on any live show tickets Subscriptions are available via AnotherSlice, Apple and Spotify. For all the links head to: ohwhatatime.com You can also follow us on:  X (formerly Twitter) at @ohwhatatimepod And Instagram at @ohwhatatimepod Aaannnd if you like it, why not drop us a review in your podcast app of choice? Thank you to Dan Evans for the artwork (idrawforfood.co.uk). Chris, Elis and Tom x Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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living. Could he be bothered to live in a pre-Euro's pre-World Cup age? I don't think so. What did they have back then? Let's say, I mean, what was the equipment? Was wars? Yeah, the hundred years war away? th? th? th? th? th.. th. th. th. W. W. W. W. W. th? What? What? What? What? What? What? What? th? What? What? th? th? What? th? What? th? th? What? What? What? W. the th. th. th? their? What? What? What? What? What? What? What? What? What? What? What? What? What? What? What? What? What? What? Is? What? What? Is? What? What? What? What? What? What? What? What? What? What? What? What? What? What? Is? Is? Is? Is? Is? Is? Is? Is? Is? Is? Is? Is? Is? Is? Is? Is? Is? Is? Is? Is? Is? Is? Is? Is? Is? Is? Is? Is? Is? Is? Is? Is? Is? Is? Is? Is? Is? Is? Is? Is? Is? Is? Is? Is? Is? Is? Is? Is? Is? Is? Is, the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the wars wasn't it yeah that's what it was yeah the hundred years war away yeah a lot of that to be fair was in Europe between different Europe suits European superpowers exactly it was the European tabies wasn't it it was Portugal versus Spain England versus France and also as we've discussed on the show before people would go and sit on hills and on, you know, cliffs and they'd watch for battle. So in a way, they were kind of, they were part of that, that Euro's vibe. And you're representing your country. Exactly. Yeah, exactly. And the good thing about

those wars is you could get called up to the squad. You could just turn up, yeah, I'm up for the rock. Dracon Asda were doing offers, I'm like, Drunk, their, to their, to, their, to, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, they were, they were, they were, they were, they were, they were, they were, they were, they were, they were, they were, they were, they were, they were, they were, they were, they were, they were, they were, they were, they were, they were, they were, they were, they were, they were, they were, they, they were, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, they were part, they were part, they were part, they were part, they were part, they were part, they were part, they were part, they were part, they were part, they were part, they were part, they were part,ir archers suits, the pre-war photo? Well, you know, they used to, they used to, they used to change the chain mail every four years, isn't they? That was the big thing. Yeah, yeah. And people were complaining wasn't traditional. We got quicker and quicker. They'd be like a third chain-mails, a kit this year. I hate this template chain mail. Because actually, if you look at it, I was shorts are the same as Hungary's shorts, just the colours are different. What would it be?

There'd be a massive shop called War Direct, which is going to the equivalent to SportsD Direct. You go in and there are all is always slightly better than the rest as well, and that's a bit of noise. He's got the crest really big on the front and. Oh, you've got to get the new axe with the rubber grip. Oh, getting the kids putting that on their Christmas list. Ellis has presented this as kind of an inferior time. Let's continue with our introduction. I'm Tom Crane and with me is... I'm Menis James. And I'm Chris Gull and each week on the show we're looking at a new historical subject and today we're going to be discussing music. Music. I can't believe it's taken us this long to get to music. Yeah. Quite literally music to my ears that we're discussing music. It really is.

I was friends with someone who was a very very. I was friends. I was friends. I was friends. I was friends. I was friends. I was friends. I was friends. I was friends. I was friends. I was friends. I was friends. I was friends. I was friends. I was friends. I was friends. I was friends. I was friends. I was friends friends. I was friends. I was friends friends friends friends friends friends. I was friends. I was friends. I was friends friends friends friends. I was a very very very veryented musician, he did music to say CNA level and was effectively like in his spare time he used to read about the history of music was a musicologist so he often didn't like the pop music of the day right because he was always comparing it to other forms of popular music and saying it's just too simple is too predictable and he used to to tell me about sort of popular know the popular music of 200 years ago just because you found it such an interesting topic so I I have a by proxy a tiny amount of knowledge but a great interest in this as a topic so what are we discussing this week so today I'm gonna be talking about music in ancient times we're also going to be discussing Richard the Lion heart

and also the love affair between music and football but before we get that that that that that th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th to to th to to to to th to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the try.oooooe.e.e. the the the the the try. too. too. too. I toe. I toe. I toe affair between music and football. But before we get into that, shall we do a little bit of correspondence? Let's kick off with some correspondence. Now, this is a big one. We've made some sort of some faux piles in the show before, but in terms of correction sections, I think this is one of the worst.

It really is. Okay. Brace yourself. This is from Laura in Laramie, and she has, and she th, and she th, and she is, and she is, and she is, and th, and th, and th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, thi, thi, th, thi, thi, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, th. th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th, th. And, th. And, the, toe, toe. And, toe. And, tooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo. And, too, thie and she has emailed the show to say, Hello, you three are much smarter and funny than I could ever dream of being absolutely not true, Laura. And I always come away from your show happier and smarter than when I began listening. Once again, I'm sure that's not true. But in your number 50 presidential inventions episode, you shared hilarious anecdotes about Benjamin Franklin. Unfortunately, despite your statements, Mr Franklin was never a president. So apparently this is basically, I think this is a group correction here.

Well, I'm gonna, I'm gonna take the blame because Dell are proper historian, that episode was Inventions by Founding Fathers. Now, that's my misunderstanding of the term founding fathers. I assumed all the founding fathers became presidents. That's on me. But I think, I think like I may have accidentally introduced the notion they were all presidents and none of you called me out on it.

Okay, fine. But if anyone's up against the wall, it was it? And we have collective responsibility of what's on site. Yeah, yeah. But Chris, Chris, Chris, but Chris, but Chris, but Chris, but Chris, but Chris, but Chris, but Chris, but Chris, but Chris, but Chris, but Chris, but Chris, but Chris, but Chris, but Chris, but Chris, but Chris, but Chris, but Chris, but Chris, but Chris, but Chris, Chris, but Chris, Chris, Chris, Chris, Chris, Chris, th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. the, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their was, their was, their was, their was, was, was, was. their was. their was. their? I was. their? I was. their? their? their? their? th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. the the is the first among equals and he has to fall a new sword here. Because it's not certainly not Darrell I were historian's fault. I've realized I broadcast every week next to one of his books which is on the shelf behind me. It's certainly not Darrell's fault. I'm going to put my hands up and say I got swept along in my hand and I'm going to say that I felt bullied by the the the the the the the the the the president the president the president the president the president the president the president the president the president the president the president the president the hands. Yep and I'm going to say that I felt bullied by the other two to say he was a president when deep down I knew he wasn't a president he was just a founding

father. So there you go Tom is using the I was just following orders defense which has gone down so well in history. Dare I say I think this do appreciate it. Now then, is this Chris Skull's John Prescott's jab moment? Right. Is he going to use this to make himself appear relatable to the electorate? Interesting. Yeah, yeah. I'm human. Are first to say. Chris, here's a challenge. I want you to give us a number of episodes in which time you will not make another blunder. Okay, and our listeners as a challenge can listen out to try and pick out a blunder. No, I want it. I just want everyone to relax when I'm talking. I don't want people actual historian pouring over to every syllable. I want people pulling their cars over onto the hard shoulder.

I want them sitting down on part benches and getting their pads out. I want them focusing, okay, so give me a number of episodes in which there will be zero skull blunders. Three episodes. Three episodes. I think I've got three episodes. That's so low. Let's just say this episode, this episode, this episode, this episode, this episode, this episode, this episode, this episode, this episode, this episode, this episode, this episode, this episode, this episode, this episode, this episode, this episode, this episode, this episode, this episode, this episode, this episode, this episode, this episode, this episode, this episode, this episode, this episode, this episode, this episode, this episode, this episode, this episode, this episode, this episode, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, tho, th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. th. I, tho, tho, tho, too, too, too, too, too, too, too, too, too, toooooooooooooooooooo. I's, too, too,'s just say this episode. This episode. And that is an O'Watertunnel pledge.

There you go. To the election. And I'm going to have this engraved onto a big store. Yeah, I'm doing this press conference now in front of a large stone tablet which says, this is that I will be error-free. And error is spelt wrong. Not era. Anyway, that's enough correspondence for this week. I think we all feel suitably chastened. This is how you can get in contact with the show. All right, you horrible luck. Here's how you can stay in touch with the show. You can email us at

Hello at O What a Time.com. And you can follow us on Instagram and Twitter at O-Watertime dot com. And you can follow us on Instagram and Twitter at O-Water Time pod. Now clear off. What does Possible sound like for your business? It's having to spend to power your scale with no preset spending limit. Redefine possible with Business Platinum. That's the powerful backing of American Express. Terms and Conditions apply. Visit Amex.C.A.S.A. dot.S.P.A.A.S.A.A.S.A.A.S.A.A.T.S.A.

whatever's holding you back. So you can let your potential shine. Turn on confidence. Turn on connections. Turn on connections. Turn on possibilities. There are hundreds of programs and services available at the Y. See what you can achieve at YMCAGTA.org. This will be the show I'll be talking about a love affair between music and football from down the ages. I will be discussing Richard the Lionheart's hit record.

And I'm going to be talking about the music of ancient times. The music of ancient Egypt, ancient Greece, Rome, Babylon and beyond. Right, so let's kick off with this. First question, what is the oldest type of music that you listen to regularly? So I can give you an example, I listen to quite old choral music. I find it very relaxing when I'm writing. I find it doesn't sort of interrupt my chain of thought.

It just sort of really suits my way of working. So that's for me is the oldest type of music I listen to. I think I don't go back much further than the 1920s. Really? Okay. So no classical. But there's not what is there beyond that anyway? What there's Bach? There's Beethoven? Very, very rarely. Is he likes classic music? I don't really venture into it a huge amount. Okay. But I do like people like Robert Johnson and Lead Belly and Blind Lemon Jeff,

a lot of those blues artists. So how do you react when Izzy puts on classical music? Are you usually putting your fingers in your ears and really sort of kicking up a stink? Oh no no I don't I don't dislike it. I just it would never be my go to. Okay. So yeah and then I suppose it's mainly from about 1960 onwards really. In my mind Skull listens to nothing prior to 2004 to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to th th th th their to th th their th th their their th their th their their th their tho their tho their tho tho. A lot tho. A lot tho. tho. their their their a lot their a lot their a lot their a lot a lot their a lot a lot a lot a lot a lot a lot a lot a lot a lot a lot a lot the the the their a lot their a lot their a lot their a lot their a lot their a lot their a lot their their their their their their their tho. tho. tho. tho. thooooooooooooooo. thoooooooooo. thoooooooooo. thooooo. A lot their their mainly from about 1960 onwards really. In my mind, Skull listens to nothing prior to 2004, just like that. I think that's probably like that you'd consider that really old. I refer to the charts before 2004 as the Dark Ages. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And he's got all those Ibiza hit records he's got on white leaguers. I listen to classic FM. I like it in the winter in the mornings. Yeah, I listen to classic FM. I will also, I like like old French records. I like old foreign, like when you can hear the kind of the gristle of the old vinyl, the gramophone on those old records, like I love that. Yes. I But I'll listen to like foreign music, like particularly French, I find quite a soothing language that I'm not tuned into the lyrics so I can just enjoy the song. I'll lend you some Welsh language music. Yeah, right? I'll lend you a Spotify playlist of so much language music if you want. Yeah, send me a mini disc. For my French GCSE, someone told me that if that if that if that if that if that if that if that if I I I I I I I I I I I that if I I I that if I I I I I that if I that if I to to to to to to to to me to to to me to to to to me to to me to to to to me to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to to me, I'll to me, I'll to me, I'll to me, I'll to me, I'll to me, I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I to th, I th, I th, I th, I th. I th. I th. I'll the, I'll the, I'll the, I'll the, I'll the. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. to to to to to particularly to to particularly to to particularly to to to thi. thi. Yeah, it's sent me a mini disc. For my French GCSE, someone told me

that if I listened to French as I slept, I would be able to, it would just go in and I would be able to, I would wake in the morning having learned it. Oh, yeah, I remember hearing that. I recorded C90s of myself reading out from my French, French homework book which I would press play on my getter blaster as I fell asleep. It just I didn't learn any French it just gave me the most mental dreams. Off often where I was in a so prison cell being read to by myself who I was who was also my my captain. This is what you listen to so Skull listens to a bit of classic FM didn't expect that

Ellis, 1920s the earliest but what did properly ancient music sound like that? That's what I'm going to th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th I'm th th I'm going th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th the the the the the thi thi thi the the the the the th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th th. I I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th. I th th th th th th th th th th th th th th the the the the the the the the the the the thre thre throenen throen theeeennnnnn' thren' throen the the throen throen the the the't expect that, Ellis, 1920s the earliest, but what did properly ancient music sound like? That's what I'm going to talk about today. Mortimer point, how can we know what was played, what the songs were, and what melodies and harmonies people were listening to in ancient Egypt, ancient Greece, as way back as then? Well, the answer always lies, as with most things in history, with archaeology. The oldest surviving piece of music, now known as the Hurrian songs, were set down in writing about 1400 BC, and most of those songs were written on clay tablets, which were then fragmented

apart, so most of these songs have been lost, okay? Apart from one, which is known as the Hurrian hymn. And this is a sacred piece of music, and it's kind of a dedication to the goddess of the orchard who's called Nekow. This is the thing I'd be thinking about. And it's three and a half thousand years old. It's insane, isn't it? Three and a half thousand years old. What I'd be thinking about is the spiritual,

weight and importance that would have given it to people, in that when you were singing it, you felt it would have an impact, it would please the gods and therefore impact your life. Like the value that this music must have had back then must have been incredible. Not simply for enjoyment, it's also for, it had a sort of transformative effect for your future. Because usually, we never usually read each other's research, Tom I read your research today, Tom, because there are YouTube links included and modern-day musicians have worked out the musical notation and worked out how we played these songs, the recorded versions of the songs that you can hear. And I listened to them both, because there are two ones you're going to discuss. It is haunting and very evocative, and I found it quite moving. The thing it made me think was, so the the three the three the three the three the three thi thiii. It's thi. It's thi. It's thi. I, because, because, because, because, because, because, because, because, because, because, because, because, because, because, because, because, because, because, because, because, because, because, because, because, because, because, because, because, because, because, because, because, because, because, because, because, because, because, because, because, because, because, because, because, because, because, because, because, because, because, because, because, because, because, because, because, because, because, because, because, because, because, because, because, their their their their their their their their their their their their their their their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, th.. Wea. We're, thi. We're, thi. We're, thi. thi quite moving. The thing it made me think was,

so three of us have young children, the creative impulse in people is innate and very instinctive. All kids draw, all kids color in. All kids are creative when they're playing. It gets sort of taken out of us, unfortunately as we get older, but all little children are creative. And they all love music. Well, if you have songs on in the car, from very young, a child will have a favourite song.

Yes. We're basically hardwired to like music. Yes. This is someone's creativity from three and a half thousand years ago. That's survived. They would never have predicted that. Yeah. It's amazing. Absolutely amazing, isn't it? So you talk about survival and how this stuff still can be listened to... their. th. their. th. to. to. th. th. to. to. to. their. to. to, th. the th. th. th. th. thi. thi. thi. the thi. th. th. the the their, thi. th. their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, their, a their, a their, a their, a their, a their, a their, a their, their, their, their, their, their, th. th. th. th. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. ti. toda. toda. today, today, today, today, today, today, thi. thi. thi. ththis stuff still can be listened to now. What's interesting is the process by which we've come to realize how it would have sounded and how it would have been played. So what's incredible is that the tablets didn't only print the words of the songs, but they also gave the music in an ancient form of tabular notation, which we know the liar playing, it's kind of like a small harp as how you describe it,

we'll be able to read and then replicate. And how are we able to read that and know how it sounds? Because they were also, this blows my mind, there were also surviving tablets which detailed musical theory from that time. So everything has been written down. The tablets talked about how to tune the instruments, notation and scales, intervals, chords, everything is written down on these tablets so we can infer from that how these pieces were meant to be performed. That's what I find just so incredible. And it shows

how important they must have been the fact they were chiseled into stone. All of this detail was there and left to be preserved. So here something about me, thir. And thiiiii. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. thi. that, that, tho, tho, tho, thi. thi, that, that, th. th. th. th. the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the is the is the is the, the is the is the is the is the is the is the is the is the is the is the is the is the is theat, theat, theat, theat, theat, theat, theat, theat, theat, the is the is the is the is th and left to be preserved. Do you hear something weird about me in terms of learning and reading music? Because I was pretty cool this. I was the head choir boy of Bath, Abbey Choir. I think we've talked about this before. That was my, I secretly didn't know how to read music. I can't read music. So whenever we performed a piece as a choir, I would have to basically mime the first time and just listen to it. And then memorize. And memorize it. That's exactly it. So the other choruses would be reading

and singing the notes in front of them and I would be pretending that I was doing that, but having to listen and learn really, really quickly. Do you know what, I've never thought about that? Because I can read music and play piano very rudimentary. But it's keys, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, th.. the th. th. the the th. the th. th. the th. th. th. th. thi, thi, thi, thi, the the the the their, their, their, their, their, their, their, th. And, th. And memorize, th. And memorize, th. And memorize, th. And memorize, th. And memorize, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, th. And, thi. And, thi. And, thi. And, the the thin. And, the the thin, the thorough, the toooooooooooooooooooooooooo. And, that's, that's, that's, th. And play piano very rudimentary but I but it's keys your hit the music tells me which key to hit but the idea that as a choir boy you can look at a musical notation and know what note to sing what that note sounds like is crazy to me I never realized that's what they're doing yeah that's amazing is that what they're doing? Absolutely there is what they're doing, but also pitch and harmony is something you hopefully have a skill for and learn more and more the more you're singing as part of a choir.

So you get a feeling for where you'll be in the scales of things. But yeah, that is the idea. But most of the kids are reading the notes and going to that note. I had no idea what the note was I just had the though is a lot of this ancient music, it kind of sounds weird to the modern ear when you play it back because the notes head off in directions that we in our present understanding of musical structure, it doesn't kind of make sense to us, especially in terms of the resolution. Resolution being like, you know, discordant chords resolving themselves, like radio head, a lot, basically any great band will have discordant sounds which then resolve

and it's kind of part of our understanding of music. None of these patterns exist, so a lot of this ancient music when you hear it back, it just doesn't make sense to us really. But they're also, they also, those, the way certain songs and co-progressions resolve, that's also cultural, because that musical aesthetic is you grew up with something that you become used to and what sounds right to your ear. Completely. So like common time or 4-4 in the West for instance is what is how we hear most music but there are other cultures where all of their traditional songs are written in different time signatures. The Hurrian tablet itself, okay I'll tell you about this it was found in 1950s, it was dug up out of the earth during excavations at an ancient royal palace on the Mediterranean

coast of what is now Syria, after two decades, after two decades, after two decades. After two decades, after two decades, after two decades. It's quite reasonable or it's quite likely you could die before it was finished. Yeah. That would just, you're always driving insane. You've ever done like a puzzle over Christmas? There's part of you that enjoys it. And then as part of you that's like, I cannot wait until this is over.

I was on a plane to France about two weeks ago, and I did a crossword and after about eight minutes I was looking at the answer to the back of the hot crossword. Oh yeah. Literally just going, nope, I just don't have the pace. I do crosswords on a nap and I basically give myself 30 seconds a clue. And if I haven't got it in 36, I'm like, right, find out yet good. All my crossroads are finished in about two minutes. I'm like, I just need to get it done. You're just basically just filling in something, you're just flicking backwards and forward and filling in the right word. Okay, fair enough. So eventually, after this two decades of research, in the late 1970s, a provisional translation was published of this early piece, complete with melody.

We'll have a quick listen here. There we are, so it's quite chilled, I can sort of imagine myself listening to it. During a massage, that's got that sort of feel to it. However, it still contains things which are a little bit weird to our ear, it doesn't resolve in the way that our music does. And to find a song that comes from the ancient Rome that does sound more like our pop melodies, the sort of pop melodies we're accustomed to, you kind of have to move forward in time. You have to move forward to the second century A.D.

and to the Roman world. This is when piece of music started to form that the By that point, Greek music, which was the most important of the time, had reached the point in this development when our own musical traditions of harmony melody were sort of beginning to take form and much of our understanding of this comes from this amazing stone column. This is incredible this. It was discovered in the 1880s in Turkey by a Mr. and Mrs. Purse who were the British proprietors of a railway firm, which was situated in Western Anatolia, which is in Turkey.

And when scholars first saw this column, they noted an introduction written on it in Greek. It said, I'm a tombstone, an image. Sycilios, place me here as a long-lasting record of undying memory. And then underneath that are lyrics, and these lyrics, you may have read them earlier, L, I found sort of genuinely quite moving. Yeah, yeah. Absolutely the sort of thing I'd love on my gravestone. The lyrics are this, it says, as long as you live, shine, don't be sad at all, for life is short and time will

take its toll. Beautiful, like genuinely beautiful lyrics. Yeah, they're quite good. But one thing I think sometimes is, was it easier to write to write music musics? No, was it easy for the Beatles? Because basically they had all of music ahead of them, you know? A lot of songs hadn't been written. And you often get like court cases now because songs are quite similar. But in the 60s maybe it was quite easy? Do you mean? So going back to like ancient Greece, you've got every possibility, every different combination of tune. Would it have been easier? Are you saying if you'd been born prior to Hey Jude, you'd have written Hey Jude? Are you saying that's the only reason you didn't write it? Given enough time?

You still had thousands of years of music before you. Like McCartney, famous he wrote yesterday in his sleep, and was so pleased with it, but so suspicious of the way he'd written it thought this must be a jazz standard that my dad used to play to me as a kid. His father was quite a good musician and used to play jazz standards in the house and was like it must be something my dad played yeah and I've just remembered it in a dream and now I've just worked it out and then he played it to loads of people say what is this because I've dreamt this yesterday and so so so so th th th th th th th th the th the the the the the the the the the they I they I they I they I they I th I th I th I th I th I th I'm th I'm th I'm th I'm th is th is the the. the. the. the. th is the. the. th is the. th is th is th is th is th is th is th is th is th is th is th is th is th is th is th is th is th is th is th is th is th is th is th is they they they they they they they they they they they they the is to to to the to to to to to to to to to today to they. to to the to the today the is no, I've never heard that before my life. But that is one of the best songs I've ever heard.

He became reassured that he wasn't ripping anyone off. That's incredible. What's most amazing though is that they weren't just lyrics, just as the Babylonians have done, above these words, the Greeks had marked notations including note length and pitch. So once again the way the music should be played. And synthesis can be read, it can be translated into modern music notation, meaning that the Cycleus song is the oldest complete piece of music that exists. It's the oldest complete

piece in the whole world. Well, quick listen to it here. Hoson, see sphenu, Mideenolos the lipo'senoste, Prostolidon estin' thee toe, theen, the telosk in the telosk the telose the telose thee toe thee thee thee the came to pass and we didn't find out about this because the British Guardians had found it nearly destroyed it. Now, Edith, you'll know about this, but Chris, how do you think they nearly destroyed this pillar which had all this incredibly important music on it?

Well, a lot of this stuff gets like reused, isn't it, like put into the wall of a house? So I imagine that. It's almost worse than that, because that feels like that could just happen by mistake. So what happened was Mr and Mrs Purse, they cut off the base of the pillar so they could stand up and support some of Mrs. Pursa's flower pots. So they used it as a flower pot stand. Absolutely outrageous.

Yeah. The British literally have no respect for antiquities, do we? That's what we're finding here. But yeah, so they chopped it up, they use it as a flower pot stand, but luckily enough of it remained that this information can be taken from it. There are loads of musical fragments, actually from the Hellenistic period, which begins from 323 BC onwards, and scholars have begun to recognize that Greek poetry and speech does have a musical quality of its own from these fragments.

I'm going to end by just talking about the instruments they use, because this is another thing that we're told on these tablets and these pillars. Because that's what's further allowed us to kind of perfectly replicate the sound. L, you play guitar. I'm going to take you of these take your fancy. The key instrument from the ancient world of that time was something called the Kithara, which was only played by professionals, and the Kithara had between 7 and 12 strings depending on how accomplished you were. Okay. It's kind of between a harp and a guitar. Thoughts on a 12 string guitar? Well, the 12 string guitar already exists, but obviously you play it in the same way.

Does it? So it's the same strings strings an octave higher. Ah. And so it gives it this is sort of quite weird resonant quality. So is it a strummed instrument as opposed to a plucking instrument? You can pluck them, yeah but they tend to be strummed. Yeah. A second group of musicians played the Orloss, which was a double-readed flute. It's a bit like a recorder, sounded a bit more like an oboe though, and that was made from hollow vulture bones. You go for that skull, tempted on sort of puffing away, not a hollow, vulture bone? Do you think that's an instrument you'd be drawn to? That is like the ultimate instrument from the paststones. It does, it feels like a caveman thing as opposed to something that was happening in.

A xylophone made of vulture bones. Yeah, exactly. I'm pretty sure Fred Finstone could play that. There were also drums, tambourines, wind and brass, human voice, and there was also one other key instrument which called the Liar, which was a bit like a loot and turtle shells in ancient Greece and strung with the guts of cows and sheep. Yeah, this is what would put me off music. It's playing actual gut, as opposed to a pack of strings you buy in a packet. I just need to not know that. I think that would be keen. So that is music in the ancient world. And I suppose on how one plant pot nearly ruined everything. All right, that's the end of part one.

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