Oh What A Time... - #66 Animal Intelligence (Part 1)

Episode Date: September 22, 2024

This week we’re discussing the most intelligent creatures the animal kingdom has to offer. We’ll be looking at mankind’s attempts to communicate with apes, plus we’ll be looking at a very intelligent horse (Clever Hans) and a very intelligent octopus (Paul). And in this episode we get more detail on Elis’ Christmas room, the lack of respect he receives from his cats and whether his simian-esque posterior could one day resolve some future war between man and ape. We imagine you’ll have questions or thoughts on this, so please do get in touch: [e-mail] If you fancy a bunch of OWAT content you’ve never heard before, why not treat yourself and become an Oh What A Time: FULL TIMER? In exchange for your £4.99 per month to support the show, you'll get: - two bonus episodes every month! - ad-free listening - episodes a week ahead of everyone else - And first dibs on any live show tickets Subscriptions are available via AnotherSlice, Apple and Spotify. For all the links head to: ohwhatatime.com You can also follow us on:  X (formerly Twitter) at @ohwhatatimepod And Instagram at @ohwhatatimepod Aaannnd if you like it, why not drop us a review in your podcast app of choice? Thank you to Dan Evans for the artwork (idrawforfood.co.uk). Chris, Elis and Tom x Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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for cystitis symptoms. Give your body the relief it deserves. Get Cysto Plus at your pharmacy. No prescription required. This product may not be right for you. Always read and follow the label. Cysto Plus and Logo are registered trademarks owned by Norwell Consumer Healthcare, Inc. Hello and welcome to Oh What A Time, the history podcast that tries to decide if in the past

they had a slightly more reasonable relationship with their cats. Because I think our cats get spoiled too much. I don't think we're that high on the league table of cat adoration this family. I think we're quite normal, but in the past, surely it was just, here are some scraps of food, stop getting in the way of one of Britain's best podcasters. Because I do nickname myself Mr. Audio. But these cats are in the attic, which is where we're recording this. And I was like, boys, you've got to go. And then they look at me, I'm like, fine, ruin the podcast. You're more important than Chris Skull and Tom Crane. We should explain, just bravery beef. So basically Chris and I have been sat here for about 10

minutes. Where's Ellis? Where's Ellis? He eventually appears on the call. Sorry, I couldn't get the cats out of the room. So he literally couldn't get the cats out of his recording area and that's why he started 10 minutes late. So have literally couldn't get the cats out of his recording area and that's why he started to tell me this late. So have they got no respect for you? What's the situation? What they do, well, it's not that they like me. They seem to like me a lot and they seem to be not particularly fussed by Izzy. So occasionally I will sleep in the attic, but Izzy's got to wake up very early or if I've got to wake up very early so we don't disturb the other one. But then as soon as they know I'm in here, they're like, they can open the door because they...

How big are these cats? On their high legs, they're four foot eight. There's this weird new breed where they're cats but with human hands. Absolutely horrible to look at. In five foot tall. The least animals you've ever... They wear clothes. They're hypoallergenic and they also help around the house.

They're very expensive cats. They'll make you a coffee in the morning. They drive Ubers actually. That's the thing they sold. So they're... They contributed financially to that. They can pick you up from the station, but they can't do longer than half hour trips, but they can just get you around.

Yeah, they pick the kids up from school. They don't like Izzy, but they can just get you around. Yeah, they pick the kids up from school. They don't like Izzy, but they love you. If they know I'm in the attic, then they open the door with their human hands and then they come in. But this is at like five in the morning. So if I'm in the attic, because I'm trying to get a little bit of extra sleep, because obviously we've got quite strange schedules, the two of us, utterly pointless, because they're jumping on my head and all that kind of stuff. And they had an inkling, because they can tell, they

had an inkling that I would want to be in the attic recording because we're doing a very early morning recording because it's the school run. And I just couldn't shift them. I just could not shift them. The lack of respect is crazy. I think it's also worth mentioning, when you say attic, that suggests that you're just upstairs with the asbestos and all the cobwebs and the beams. It's a painted room. Yes, yeah, yeah. With the bed lights.

Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. No, no. I'm not next to... I actually am next to a Christmas tree, but that is because of other storage problems in the house. And because you're excited about Christmas. Yeah. It's already gone up. It's all year round.

I can see the loft. Just to describe it, I don't know if anyone remembers Mr Trevus from Life of Grime. Do you remember that? That's what it looks like. It looks like Mr Trevus' house. Ellis has a Christmas room. Don't you know that, Chris? Which is Christmas all year round. So if he's ever feeling stressed or depressed or the cats are bothering him, he can go upstairs and just imagine it's the 25th of December. Yeah, go up there. It's a big Father Christmas. Ho, ho, ho. Candy canes hanging everywhere.

Ho, ho, ho. Ho, ho, ho. Ho, ho, ho. Ho, ho, ho. Ho, ho, ho. Ho, ho, ho. Ho, ho, ho. Ho, ho, ho.

Ho, ho, ho. Ho, ho, ho. Ho, ho, ho. Oh, oh, oh. Oh, oh, oh. He has a full Christmas lunch up there every Saturday afternoon. Is he? I'm a bit stressed. I'm just going to go to the Christmas room. But hell, it's August. Yeah, you know what I'm like. Oh, oh, oh. And I wish it could be Christmas every day.

And on the 25th of December, Ellis does double Christmas. He has a Christmas with his family downstairs and he goes upstairs for a second Christmas around 4pm on his own in the Christmas room. But don't forget the cats basically live in that room so it's a big fight every time he walks in. Oh, it's Christmas every day for the cats. They've got treats up here, they've got scratching posts, the works. What a life. That feels like an, sort of, an, finally tonight, News at Ten story, doesn't it?

The person who lives, like, every day like it's Christmas. Absolutely, yeah, yeah. I'm sure there was one in the West of Country when I grew up, a guy who had Christmas dinner every day and listened to Christmas songs every day. I'm sure every round the country there is that guy that makes it onto the news around about December the 23rd. But yeah, good luck to him. So welcome, welcome to Oh, what a time. It's nice to be back here. Chris has introduced himself. That was Chris Cole. I am Tom Crane. There's Ellis James. Each week on this show, we look at a brand new subject from history.

And today we're going to be discussing, this is a fun one, actually perfect for what we're talking about with your cat, Elle. Animal intelligence is what we're looking at today. Yes. So we've got communicating with apes, a very intelligent horse, and a very intelligent octopus. So exciting. There we go.

How intelligent are your cats, Elle, if you had to put them in a sort of ranking in the cat world? Oh, in the cat world? Yeah. Or you can compare them to something else if it makes it easier, just for ease of description. I would say they are as intelligent as your average daytime TV presenter. So once it gets to about 7pm, that's when they're starting to struggle intellectually. But certainly up to that point, yeah, they can compete academically. They can present Homes Under The Hammer, any of that stuff, that'd be absolutely fine. You know, some of the stuff I've done voiceovers for, I think, yeah, the cats could do this

probably. Yeah, they could present Homes Under The Hammer Hammer but the whole time they're just asking where's the Christmas room? Where is it? Yeah yeah absolutely. Do you have a do you have a Felix or Whiskers zone? Where does the Goat Cat go? Presenter entering through a cat. That's a great start to a scene, isn't it? Cat flap flaps open. This lovely four-header in Maidstone is great. Would watch. So before we crack into animal intelligence, let's have a little bit of correspondence. I think he's only right as we always do. We love your emails. Matthew Turner has got

in contact with the headline that we all like to read, Correction Corner slash oh what a shame. I'm afraid Ellis, this one's heading in your direction, Al. Oh no. All right gents, firstly just to say I love the pod. I'm a full-timer myself. I can honestly say it is the highlight of my week. Recommendation from a full-timer. If you're not a full-timer, do join up. It's a bargain. 4.99 a month. You can't go wrong. Unfortunately, he says, I couldn't help but point out something for your correction corner. In the episode number 58, Bad Ideas, Ellis says that the car Delboy and Rodney drives in Only Fools and Horses is a reliant Robin. This is not the case, says Matthew

Turner. While it was indeed a Reliant, it was in fact a Regal Supervan 3. A common mistake, but one that often bothers me. Other than that, you're doing great. Keep up the good work, Matthew. There you go. Right to reply, Al. Al-Khalili Only Fools and Horses started in 1981. I don't remember a time when there wasn't Only Fools and Horses in my life. I don't remember a time when there wasn't only Fools and Horses in my life. I don't remember a time when I didn't think it was a Reliant Robin. I think in your defence, everyone thinks that, I think. I've said that confidently. Yes, I didn't know that Reliant had other kinds of cars, actually. So, it's never nice to be corrected, So, it's never nice to be corrected, but, you know, how else do you progress, how else do you develop if people don't point out your mistakes?

And so, thank you very much. I will never, ever make that mistake again. I've actually stood next to the Del Boy three- wheeler, the Trotters van. Have you? Have you? Do you remember L Street TV studios? That's where there was... I worked there quite a while.

I don't think it's there anymore. We're back when I was working there on Big Brother. There was like a car, a film and TV car, Emporium, I don't know what you'd call it, but they had all the different cars from different TV shows. And you could get, they had like police vans from the 80s and they had the Trotters van which just sat there in that under, wheeled underground car park. Yeah. That's very cool.

Yeah. So I've touched it. What's the most amazing bit of film memorabilia or TV memorabilia you've ever seen? I've actually got a good answer for that. And it was in Elstree Okay and you know They shot and they shot a lot of like Star Wars films there and stuff like that and they had loads of storage from films that Had been shot there or people had worked on films and they were just carrying out all these like trunks of stuff that they were They were gonna auction off all the old things they had in storage and what they were pulling out these trunks

And I just was happened to be there one day and they had the manual for the DeLorean back to the future, like a manual that had been created by Doc Brown, obviously inverted commas. And I picked it up and had a look and it was like the instructions for the DeLorean and it said stuff like, you can go back to 50,000 BC and 50,000 AD. That's so cool. That's amazing. Did you take a photo of it? I didn't. This is pre-camera phones. I wonder how much that's sold for. I was given a tour of Albert Square once. That's pretty cool. So I've been on the East Ender set where everything's built. And a lot of the houses, they're real houses. They're made of stone. They're actual houses.

Wow. It's amazing. Because for a period they were just pre-fab-fronted things. Then they thought, do you know what? This show's doing quite well. People seem to watch this. amazing. For a period they were just pre-fab-fronted things. Then they thought, do you know what? This show's doing quite well. People seem to watch this. So they've actually built proper houses in this square. Some of them, like for instance the Queen Vic, you open the door, there's basically nothing in there. You have to go somewhere else for the internal shots. But the houses themselves, a lot of them are proper stone London houses that have been built by builders.

With rooms in them. With like the front room will be there. You know, the back of the house won't quite exist but the whole front of the front room you can walk in and it does actually exist. Yeah. It's quite surreal actually. I've got a good one. When I was in the sitcom Josh, as written by Tom Crane and Josh Whittaker of course. The studio where we did all of the flat scenes, that room is where the Beatles started recording Let It Be. Wow. So if you watch Get Back, the first week or so when it's that vast cavernous room and they're

not getting on very well and they're wearing coats and jumpers because it's so cold and they're arguing. The bit where George and Paul have the argument and then George decides to leave the band, that is where we filmed Josh, that room. What had the greater cultural impact? Your time there or the actual Beatles? Well thankfully they recorded everything we did so so in about 50 years' time there's going to be like a nine hour documentary that just shows Tom drinking custard and talking about trying to change jokes in various scenes.

Loads of scenes of us stood around riffing ideas that we'd try out in the scene, but then actually when it comes to the end it aren't strong enough so get nipped out again. But in the moment we think, yeah that's really funny, let's do it, let's say it, let's say it, that's really good. Let's say it. After a month's cooling off period, as the editor sits on the edit suite and watches it back with the gift of time, he goes, no that isn't strong enough, we'll just go back to the original scripts.

Right, thank you for getting in contact. I think that was Matthew who got in contact, wasn't it? Thank you very much for sending that email in, Matthew Turner. If anyone else wants to get in contact with the show, there are many ways to do so. Here's how. Alright, you horrible lot. Here's how you can stay in touch with the show. You can email us at hello at EARLWATERTIME.COM and you can follow us on Instagram and Twitter at EARLWATERTIME.COM. Now clear off. Every day, women's bodies endure a lot. Now clear off. the relief it deserves. Get Sisto Plus at your pharmacy. No prescription required.

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I will be talking to an octopus that gamblers everywhere were taking very, very seriously. You'll be talking to one. You'll be talking to an octopus. Wow, what a shit is this? Immediately our best episode ever. Or worst. Or worst. Or worst.

And how have you not mentioned that? I think you're going to have to correct that before trading standards really clamp down on us. Sorry, I'll be talking about an octopus that gamblers everywhere took very seriously. I think all listeners now thinking, what an anticlimactic. Yeah. That's gutting. That's proper.

It's like something you'd see on tomorrow's world, isn't it? And this handy little device actually loads Claire over there to talk to octopuses. Chris, what are you talking about first? So I'm going to tell you all about our attempts to communicate with apes. In terms of communicating with apes and maybe, you know, apes taking over, you have to begin with Planet of the Apes. I've never seen it. I would say 98% of my knowledge of Planet of the Apes is extracted from that little skit in The Simpsons where Troy McClure is in the Planet of the Apes musical. I hope you've all seen that. But that is also true of, I would say, 90% of my pop culture knowledge and just in general,

it all comes from Simpsons parodies. I absolutely love Planet of the Apes. Oh, do you? And the sequels have come. Yeah. I'm a big fan of them. I think the Planet of the Apes, the first one is what is just a great movie. One of the great movies. It's fantastic. I've written down what I think the plot is, having never seen it. Man goes to space, man gets lost, he finds a planet, planet is run by apes, they imprison him, he tries to get back home and when he tries he discovers that he is actually on

earth the whole time the apes have taken over. Yes, that is basically the plot of loop. Thanks, substance. You've ruined it for anyone who hasn't seen it. Spoiler alert. You're listening to SpoilerPod. Chris Scott is going to ruin everything. That must exist, SpoilerPod. SpoilerPod.

Tom and I were in a sketch group many years ago with Mike Wozniak and Josh Whitacombe and lots of others. We had a sketch about trying to pretend you know the plots to very famous books that you feel like you should have read. We did, yeah. We should do a spoiler podcast. How did it work? Where you just give away the plots of all the books and films you should have read, all the films you should have seen, all the records you should have listened to. And then

it's like, listen, if you've been wasting your time on your phone for the last 20 years and you go into a party with a load of academics, listen to SpoilerPod and you'll be able to blag it. Well, remember these three points about Godfather? Is that basically what it is? Yeah, exactly. So, all of my son men, or whatever it happens to be. Here's two take-home points you need to repeat and it'll be enough. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Okay, well, do you ever hear about the Zeitgeist tapes? Have you ever heard of this? No. No. The Prime Minister, I think it was maybe Gordon Brown, might have been earlier than that. But basically the Prime Minister gets like a 20-minute videotape edit of here's what's happening culturally in the country. Oh, I remember this. Yeah, because he was obviously so obsessed with economics.

He wasn't like, well, I'm not going to listen to the latest Arctic Monkeys record, am I? I mean, I'm trying to sort out the credit crunch. So it'd be like, oh, Carol Thatcher's on I'm a Celebrity, get me out of here. This is what she's eating an egg. This is like, the Arctic Moners have a new album out. Da da da. So he would basically, he could keep his finger on the pulse of popular culture. Wow. That would be the bit of the week as a prime minister in quite a stressful job that you would look forward to most.

Not Gordon Brown. Your 20 minutes of kicking back and watching funny footage from reality shows. I reckon for Gordon Brown it was the worst bit of his week. He's like, right, who's done what? There's a load of attractive people on an island. Okay, fine. Shane Richie gagging as he eats a grub. Get me back to my spreadsheet, please.

Okay, let me sort of reword that. If I was Prime Minister, that is the bit I'd look forward to most because I have no interest in any of these sort of the policy making. Let's get to the zeitgeist tapes. You are the yin to Gordon Brown's yang. Yeah, you're the opposite. So Planet of the Apes is actually written in 1963 by French novelist Pierre Bouel. His idea was that he would flip the human experience on his head and imagine as many scientific writers have done, what earth would be like if a species other than

hobo sapiens had gained sentience. So speaking of intelligence actually, before we get into apes, Bouel is an interesting guy, the guy who wrote Planet of the Apes. He died 30 years ago, January 1994, but spent the Second world war as a secret agent working for the special operations executive in the Far East. Wow. The big question is, yeah, he's got an interesting guy. Big question, however, is can you communicate with monkeys? So if you could communicate with monkeys, what would you do as a first question? I would say, how do they make the milk so chocolatey? That would be my first question.

Do you really like bananas? Or are they just convenient? Like when I see people eating them at the gym. When someone puts you in a little suit and gives you a cigar, do you find it amusing or degrading? Because I find it very funny. Also, you could add a roller skate to that question. gives you a cigar, do you find it amusing or degrading? Because I find it very funny. Also you can add a roller skate to that question. Did you actually like tea when you were in those 80s adverts? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

PG tips. Genuinely, what would I ask? I would ask, here's what I'd ask, what do you think of us? Oh, that's not, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'd ask, I'd be quite intrigued as to what they think of us, sort of the way we interact with each other, the way we are to them.

That's probably what I'd ask. But then I've got sort of quite a depth to it. So that is the sort of thing I'd... Yeah. That's what I'd ask. I mean, I always thought, I'd quite like to know, those butts you've got, are they painful? Is that all right? Is that hurt?

The what? Sorry. I went to their bums. Okay. It they painful? Is that all right? Is that hurt? The what? Sorry. I went to their bums. Okay. It looks painful. Is that okay? So you're speaking to a baboon, not a monkey in that case. I don't know the difference.

I didn't even know that was an option. Okay, fine. I'd have to double check. You need to make it clearer. Okay, fine. What's the eight word? Baboons are on the table. It's definitely about the arse in that case.

Baboons are on the table. They have to be about arse in that case. Baboons are on the table. It has to be about that. Why is it so bright? Why is it so big? Does it keep your partner awake at night? Is it hard to get trousers to fit? What's the idea? Do you get embarrassed when you get changed on the beach?

Once again, why is it so big? Why is it so bright? Does it emit light? What's it made of? It looks sore. It looks sore. I was at the zoo and it just catches me off guard every time. I've been seeing monkey bumps for years and every time you see a real one, you're like, blimey, that looks... Even my daughter, my five-year-old daughter was like, what's going on with that? I was like, I don't know.

I'm in my forties now. I still haven't figured it out. It's going to be a huge evolutionary step for the baboon when one of them invents or at least gets his head around the idea of pants and then spreads it to the other baboons. Or just Sudokrem. Because I think it's patronizing for us to hand them the pants of a pseudocrem. They have to come to that realisation themselves. And one day they will and it will change their experience of life.

Dad, dad, what's that baboon doing over there? Oh my god. He's sewing himself some pants. With some rudimentary tools. Wow. Oh dear. himself some pants. With some rudimentary tools. So if you want to communicate with monkeys, there are two schools of thought at the moment. So the first method is you communicate with monkeys using speech and signal and the monkeys communicate back via sign language. It's interesting actually because monkeys, the way their vocal cords are constructed, they can't speak. you can't teach them to speak

in a way that a human speaks because they just basically haven't got the equipment. But sign language is a big way that you can communicate with apes. And in the 60s and 70s, people did start experiments teaching young chimpanzees how to use sign language. And the first superstar of this genre was Washoe, who was first taught American Sign Language by a research team

led by Beatrix and Robert Gardner. And Washoe was eventually able to teach words to other chimpanzees, which I immediately when I was reading this, that worries me. You don't want a rebellion on your hands. If you're that zookeeper and they're like, oh my God, they're talking to each other? That immediately made me scared. It's like the Terminator almost. Like, what have I started here? Will Barron They do have a really chilling amount of genetic similarities to humans. Jason Vale Absolutely. Will Barron It's crazy, isn't it? Jason Vale And also, they're much stronger than us.

Will Barron Yes. Jason Vale So, if it was man or a monkey, if it was a battle, they'll rip your arm off. We're being destroyed. I tell you what, I still have in my head chimpanzees being the friendly people making cups of tea on the PG Tips adverts dressed like builders in the 80s. But when you see one up close at the zoo and they're charging around, you're like, oh my God, that could really do some damage.

Oh, they're ripped. They're ripped. Yeah, they're ripped and hard. Yeah. So Ellis, you've got, famously in our friendship group, people describe you've got the bum of a and hard. Toby Hicks Yeah. So, Ellis, you've got a famous thing in our Frenchie group, people will describe, you've got the bum of a silverback. Ellis Malkin I have, yeah. Toby Hicks And you've got quite a pronounced bum.

Ellis Malkin I've got a really big, I think I'm more genetic chimp than anyone else I know. I've just got this really big bum. Toby Hicks So when the war finally breaks out between man and monkey, and we need someone to act as a mediator between the two groups. It'll be you because you're crossing the line. You're half man, half monkey. What I have to do, I mean... We'll send you forward. When the war happens, I'll be sent to the front line. I'll just have to turn around

and solemnly pull my trousers and pants down, show them my bum and then hope that they see that they haven't got a banana plans to stick it somewhere. Hope that they see that as an act as an olive branch rather than an act of war. And they slowly turn around to show theirs and you realize Ellis has done it. He saved us all. He saved us all. Stopped the war. So the war show was given real tutelage in sign language and eventually gained a vocabulary of 80 signs over a period of four years, which I'm not sure was great. It's good, isn't it? But it's not great.

That's pretty amazing, isn't it? Yeah, I suppose it is amazing. I was a bit disappointed. What were you expecting? Well, I don't know, maybe a bit disappointed. What are you expecting? Well, I don't know. Maybe a bit more. So that was in the 60s. But they have more effective experiments in language acquisition amongst apes using sign

language. And there's actually two really famous learners in this field. And they are Coco the Gorilla and Kanzi the Bonobo. And both had a much more extensive vocabulary. So Coco the Gorilla was able to sign a thousand words and recognize and respond to as many as 2,000 words of English. That's incredible.

That is incredible. And moreover, just like Wa-Sho in earlier decades, Coco could also teach other apes. And also, Coco the gorilla, at one point, adopted a pet cat. What? Yeah. Okay.

This is about to become the craziest this podcast has ever been, I would say. Okay. Kanzi. Kanzi the Bonobo, right? There are anecdotes about Kanzi's level of understanding. Okay. Kanzi once went on a trip to the woods and once she was in the woods, started making the sign language for marshmallows and fire.

And once given the marshmallows and the matches, started toasting the marshmallows and eating them. Okay? Why is it, sorry, how is the word marshmallow got into the top 1000 words that they've taught. So that can't be in the top 1000 words. Marshmallow is so specific. Can't be in the top 1000 words, you teacher monkey. If you put a list together of 1000 words, you're going to... Marshmallow is not getting in there, is it? What's happened there?

Genuinely? I don't know how that's happened. OK, so he's done marshmallow, he's done stick, he's done fire. I think we can assume that he's seen marshmallows being cooked on a fire before, he hasn't just worked this out for himself out of nowhere. Yeah, yeah. Okay. So the monkey, the bonobo asked for some marshmallows and fire and then started

tasting them on this walk in the woods. Another time, a collection of- I'll just interrupt you very briefly. If I walked past that and I saw a monkey sat down toasting a marshmallow over fire, I would assume that I had had a full mental breakdown. No, no, no. Until I lost my mind. No, you'd panic and you'd think, is and you think it's happening. They've taken over. They've taken over and they've taken the piss.

And I turn around, you'd be slowly lowering your trousers. On Bath with Humanity. Don't worry, Tom, I got this. Oh, you have a bum. Show me your bum, El. It's quite a high risk, high reward, though, isn't it? If it goes wrong, I'm in big trouble. Especially when he's got a high risk, high reward though, isn't it? If it goes wrong, I'm in big trouble. Especially when he's got a hot marshmallow. End up waxing it.

Okay. So keep going. Sorry. So he sat there, he toasted his marshmallow. That was one incident. Another time the apes all had a hacker, you know, the New Zealand War Dance performed in front of them. All the other apes went ballistic.

They went completely crackers. They thought it was an aggressive display, but Kenzie the bonobo was calm. And after, and just watched it diligently. And after the hacker dance had finished while all the other apes were going crazy, Kenzie signed the following, can you do it again? But just for me in the room next door so the others don't get upset. Wow.

Yeah. Okay. Yeah. That's amazing. You are 100% having to drop your trousers after that. Yeah. That is the start. Can't see the bonnet.

Chris, how are you imagining Ernest? I'm imagining Ernest is lowering as very slowly and very solid. Yeah. They're not just dropping down straight. It's a very slow, respectful drop of the trouser. It's like Braveheart. So all of the monkeys and the apes are lined up. All of the humans are lined up and there's 500 yards apart.

And I'm with all the sort of leaders of the world and the leaders of the world's armies. And they're like, go on, do it. Do it. It's our last chance. And I'm like, okay. And then I turn around and I very, very slowly lower my trousers and they catch one side of my bum, high risk, high reward. And it's either the end of the human race or we can all coexist happily forever. Cut to credits. You find out in a second what happened. And a bit like Tim Berners-Lee giving the internet to the world as a gift. I'm not

financially rewarded for this. You did it for humanity. I did it for humanity. And I just go back to my normal life. And yeah, as I'm not financially rewarded for this. You did it for humanity. I did it for humanity. And I just go back to my normal life. And yeah, as I'm walking down the street, young mothers are saying to their kids, that's the bum that saved humanity. In every town square in Britain, there's a statue of your bum. It is big. But it does mean that when I cycled to Brighton for the British Heart

Foundation from London, I didn't have to wear padded cycling shorts. Is that true? Wow. No. Okay. But I've never been to Saddle Saw in my life. I can do 30 miles easily. I did wear cycling shorts for Brighton just in case. But yeah, 35-mileer, no problem. So he said, come into the room next door. That's amazing. That's incredible. The other couple of things that Kanzis can do, quite decent at Pac-Man, can play Pac-Man. It's quite good at it. And also there's videos on YouTube of Kanzi the Bonobo having a good old go on Minecraft. Quite good at Minecraft as well. Really? Yeah. But the big debate among scientists is whether Coco, Washo or Kanzi and the other apes who

were communicating using sign language were merely engaging in learned mimicry. And actually when Coco died in 2018, article after article suggested that her entire life had been a fraud and that she had no knowledge of language at all. Given the absence of syntax, adjectival and adverbial description and other complexities of language, critics have suggested that all this shows is that animals can use signals and signals do not necessarily imply speech." Interesting. Oh, that's so sad as well. But that's absolutely fascinating. That shows there's a backup. Built on an extra notch. Trowels at full mast.

But there is a way in which you can communicate with apes, which is to mimic their actual kind of natural mechanisms of intra-species communication. So apes do say things, you know, in both say, in both commas to each other. Scientists have observed as many as 80 such signals. In human terms, think of a raised eyebrow, a clenched fist, or the entire paralanguage of an Italian hand gesture, for example. Here's some of the things you can do to communicate with an ape. You can do a big loud scratch, which means groom me.

You can shake an object, which historian Daryl says actually means fuck off if you're shaking an object. Worth bearing in mind. Really? Wow. Stroking the mouth means feed me or tearing strips from leaves with your teeth. That means I'm flirting with you. So you can, to conclude, you can actually communicate with every monkey you see. I think it's a bit weird if you're, for everybody, Chris, I think it's a bit weird if you're doing the sign for I'm flirting with you. I think we can agree that if you ever see a scientist doing that to a monkey,

he needs to be removed from the laboratory. Dave, stop doing that. I would have a shower before going into work rather than getting one of the monkeys to groom me. Don't worry love, yeah, bonobo will sort me out. I'm going to end on a little throwback to the Simpsons sketch of Planet of the Apes, which is that you can communicate with every monkey you see from chimpanzee to chimpanzee. Oh, very nice. Alright, that's the end of part one.

If you want part two right now, and if in fact you want even more Oh What A Time than ever before, you can get two bonus episodes every month, plus all our old bonus episodes, plus all the old fourth parts are now up there in a mega episode. To become a subscriber to the show and support the show, you can go to owhatatime.com, see all your options there, subscribe and get even more Owotatime and get part two right now. Otherwise, we'll see you tomorrow.

Bye. See you. Bye. So Thank you.