Oh What A Time... -  #74 Long Journeys (Part 2)

Episode Date: November 5, 2024

This is Part 2! For Part 1, check the feed from yesterday! This week we’re packing our bags and heading out on some of the longest journeys known to the annals of history. From the travels of Herodotus and how he put Judith Chalmers to shame, Charles Dickens on tour in America and two books on the subject of being a vagrant in the USA at the dawn of the 20th century. And now they’re we’re at the dawn of the AI apocalypse that may wipe out humanity and therefore, worst of all, podcasters too; there may be no finer time to send us an email than now: [e-mail] If you fancy a bunch of OWAT content you’ve never heard before, why not treat yourself and become an Oh What A Time: FULL TIMER? In exchange for your £4.99 per month to support the show, you'll get: - two bonus episodes every month! - ad-free listening - episodes a week ahead of everyone else - And first dibs on any live show tickets Subscriptions are available via AnotherSlice, Apple and Spotify. For all the links head to: ohwhatatime.com You can also follow us on:  X (formerly Twitter) at @ohwhatatimepod And Instagram at @ohwhatatimepod Aaannnd if you like it, why not drop us a review in your podcast app of choice? Thank you to Dan Evans for the artwork (idrawforfood.co.uk). Chris, Elis and Tom x Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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He was a month shy of his 30th birthday so he's 29 and he's already a famous novelist. Also, he's probably my favourite author. Is he? Is he? It's not particularly surprising. I mean loads of people love him, but yeah, I just love Dickens. I'm also fascinated by, you know, Victoria and Streets and that. Mason Hickman Yeah, yeah. Out of curiosity, what are your

top three Dickens novels? Will Barron Well, I have a clear winner. Mason Hickman Oh yeah. Will Barron Christmas Carol. Will Barron Well, okay, that's an interesting point. I really love Christmas Carol, but I love Oliver. That's my favourite. Mason Hickman Do you? Okay, okay. Will Barron Yeah, I do. And it's just the idea of kind of little street urchin gangs and all this

sort of stuff. Just street urchin gangs. It's kind of fascinating. Yeah, I don't know. It's one of my daydreams. I think about how would I have done. He's also, he was fantastic at coming up with character names. Grad Grind. Yes. That's incredible, isn't it? Absolutely amazing.

Great bit of writing. Yeah, yeah, completely. Well, he's a month shy of his 30th birthday. Unfortunately, the ship headed straight into a storm coming from the other side of the Atlantic and the crossing was one of the roughest in recent times. No, thank you. I am not great on a ferry. So if it's a crossing that people regard as rough 182 years later.

To me that sounds rough. In the pre-PNO era. Yeah, yeah. That sounds, yeah, no thank you. Have you ever been on one where it's properly rough? Oh my God. First time I went to Ireland from Holyhead, I think it is. I was sick everywhere.

I did the same. I was doing gigs in Ireland and I got the ferry from Holyhead and it was, it felt like the ferry was jumping up and down. And I just thought, this is bad news. Were you sick? I wasn't.

I was just in a very bad mood. Anyway, so this is rough, right? It's so rough, we're still talking about it in 2024 and it's January 1842. To calm down, he drank Corpus and went to Brandy, administering the same medicine to his wife, Catherine, and their travelling maid, Anne Brown. Feels a bit weird now, doesn't it? Getting your maid pissed on Brandy on a ferry. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. We've got a couple of childminders and people who look after the kids. Evie and Grace, for

instance. I'm not going to get them pissed on Brandy. Feels a bit odd. Also, I don't think it's actually a very, very good solution to a rough crossing. Brandy. Yeah, absolutely. Isn't, well, surely being drunk makes you feel even less secure on your feet? Yeah, yeah, yeah. As well.

Like if you're just drinking sort of hard liquor, you're already going up and down, now you're going side to side. Maybe you just sort of lean into it and you just sort of lie on the floor and roll wherever the ferry wants to take you. Such was the rocking and the rolling of the ship, however, Dickens kept spilling the liquid everywhere and by the time he was able to give the glass to his companions, it had been reduced to a teaspoonful. Oh, come on, mate.

Right. You look the greatest novelist the English language has ever known. Make sure you can pour a drink to someone on a rough crossing. Anyway, ship landed in Boston. Real Mr Bean qualities coming across now from the... The ship landed in Boston on 22nd of January, 1842, so that's 19 days later. He soon found that he was as famous in the US as he was in Britain. I can do nothing that I want to do, he complained. Go nowhere where I want to go and see nothing that I want to see. If I turn

into the street and followed by a multitude, as in a multitude of like fans, this would only get worse. But for the moment he had other things on his mind." Now that's an interesting observation about fame, isn't it? I would have thought that as a novelist, because he's not going to have photos in the book. Mason- But I'm just looking at pictures of him now. Dickens has quite a distinctive look, hasn't he? That little beard, like a goatee beard, but it's long and he's got like shaved sides, and he's bald but he's really grown out the sides. That is a distinct, that is... Mason- Yeah. Mason- I hesitate to use the word iconic.

Will You guys, I'm sorry, I'm not sure if you're saying that. I'm not sure if you're saying that. I'm not sure if you're saying that. I'm not sure if you're saying that. I'm not sure if you're saying that. I'm not sure if you're saying that. I'm not sure if you're saying that. I'm not sure if you're saying that. I'm not sure if you're saying that. I'm not sure if you're saying that. I'm not sure if you're saying that. I'm not sure if you're saying that. I'm not sure if you're saying that. I'm not sure if you're saying that.

I'm not sure if you're saying that. I'm not sure if you're saying that. I'm not sure if you're saying that. I'm not sure if you're saying that. I'm not sure if you're saying that. I'm not sure if you're saying that. I'm not sure if you're saying that. I'm not sure if you're saying that. I'm not sure if you're saying that. I'm not sure if you're saying that. I'm not sure if you're saying that. I'm not sure if you're saying that. I'm not sure if you're saying that. I'm not sure if you're saying that. I'm not sure if you're saying that. I'm not sure if you're saying that.

I'm not sure if you're saying that. I'm not sure if you're saying that. I'm not sure if you're saying that. I'm not sure if you're saying that. I'm not sure if you're saying that. I'm not sure if you're saying that. I'm not sure if you're saying that. I'm not sure if remember Wayne Rooney when he went to the MLS. He said the amazing thing is... Toby So I can't believe you just compared Dickens going to America to Rooney transferring to the MLS. What a podcast this is. Will Barron But what I'm saying is, he hadn't been anonymous since before he was 16. And he'd been probably one of the most famous people in Britain. Because I've always seen he was on the front cover of tabloids all the time. So he sort of transcended football fame. And that had been the same since he was 16 the front of the tabloids all the time. So he sort of transcended football fame.

See, and that had been the same since he was 16. And he went to the US and he was actually fairly anonymous. He said it was incredible because by that point he was in his 30s, he'd sort of forgotten what it was like. Dickens would have thought the US would be where I can chill out in the US, wear Bermuda shorts and flip-flops, no one's going to take their piss. But seemingly not. Yeah, that's so interesting. So his journey by steamer, railroad and coach took him south from Boston through the industrial quarters at Lowell, Massachusetts towards Washington, DC, where he toured the White House and met President John Tyler.

Wow! And then, yeah, and then finally into the south, Richmond, Virginia. He'd wanted to go all the way to North Carolina, but had been defeated by the heat and the humidity, and he stayed further north instead. He wrote of what he saw, "'Two or three citizens were balancing themselves "'on rocking chairs and smoking cigars.'" That sounds quite nice.

Yeah. "'We founded a very large and elegant establishment "'and were as well entertained "'as travelers need desire to be. "'The climate being a first doing, "'there was never at any hour of the day "'a scarcity of lounges in the spacious bar or the cessation of the mixing of cool liquors. Although it was yet, but the middle of March the weather in this southern temperature was

extremely warm." He's landed on his feet there, isn't he? That sounds like a really nice holiday. He's thinking to himself, you know, I put all the graft in right to Nicholas Nickelby and now I'm just going to enjoy it. So he's 30 at this point as well, is he? Or 29, 30. He's just going on travel, travelling around America and enjoying the sun and getting pissed. That's like a gap year. It's weird to think Dickens in America.

It's like you always think of him in a pre kind of travel age almost. Yeah. Signing loads of autographs, getting hassled, but you know, chilling out. Will Barron But you can see why he's popular because he writes to a type of British character and a type of British community that an American market would find fascinating. Mason- Yeah. Also, a lot of people in the US would have had links to the UK in that time.

Will Barron Yes, of course. Yeah, absolutely. Mason- He found he liked Richmond society much less than that of the northern cities. And he soon returned via Pittsburgh, Cincinnati, and the Niagara Falls. In Ohio, he met a Welsh, probably Welsh speaking actually, school teacher, who came here on a speculation of greater promise and performance to teach the classics. So that was in Columbus, but in Cleveland, he had a shock. He woke up one day to find a gaggle of fans staring through his cabin window as he and his wife lay in bed. But that's the kind of thing that you'd have if you were in a boy band.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Do you want to see a picture? I've just found a picture of what Charles Dickens looked like in 1842 during his American tour. Wait till you see this picture of Charles Dickens in 1842. I've just texted you now. Look at him. Oh, wow. He's like something out of a boy band. I've seen this picture of Charles Dickens in 1842. I've just texted you now. Look at him!

He's like something out of a boy band. He looks incredible. Yeah, he really is. Real sort of Harry Styles vibe. Okay, he was a shagger. He is the best looking Victorian novelist out there. Lovely, nice thick hair, delicate lips, big eyes, perfect complexion. Yeah, the guy's a looker. Will Barron Ellis, just describe your perfect evening with that Charles Dickens.

Ellis Malkin Just kissing for ages. Will Barron And then he'd read to you from a new novel that no one else has heard yet. Ellis Malkin Yeah, yeah. So I'm getting an exclusive first access. I'm basically a Dickens Patreon. I'm a Dickens subscriber. Mason- And then you're giving a few edit notes and he's going, who are you to give me notes? And then it will just be a bit weird. Mason- Yeah, yeah. Just kiss me. And then we kiss again. So in his American notes, his

travelogue of the journey thunder, I can't drink a glass of water without having 100 people looking down my throat when I open my mouth to swallow. So this is proper fame. Amazing. Yeah, absolutely. In New York, he was greeted with warm weather and the chance to wander around as I began to wonder,

heaven, the ladies, how they dress. We've seen more colours in these 10 minutes than we should have seen elsewhere in as many days. What various parasols, what rainbow silks and satins, what pinking of thin stockings and pinching of thin shoes, and flutterings of ribbons and silk tassels and display of rich cloaks with gaudy hoods and linings." So he's into how they dress in New York and he's like, yeah, this is where the hipsters live. Lots of bright colours. I quite like New York, actually.

So he toured Wall Street, Centre of American Finance, as well as the New York Stock Exchange. He found Broadway, the sunniest street in the world, which was quite a sort of contrast with what he was used to in London. He played like seven dials. And all those gangs in New York context that he was drawn to as well,

and the American equivalent of the Workhouse, which is situated on Long Island. On Valentine's Day, Dickens was the guest of honour at a ball organised by the great and good of the city at the Park Theatre. Three thousand people turned up to celebrate his fame as a writer. Wow! That's amazing! He's filled the Apollo. It's Dickens live at the Apollo. God, what are all the audio set- setups like there? Can they hear him? I don't know. I know that Dylan Thomas used to do sort of reading tours in the US in the early 50s,

where he would do really big theatres. Three thousand people turned up to celebrate his work. That's amazing, isn't it? Yeah. I finished writing on a series a few months ago. Do you want to know what I got at the end of the series to say thank you? What? A fridge magnet. There you go. That's the difference. So 3,000 people turning up. You've got 3,000 fridge magnets, which is actually, you've been given a problem, they're

not a gift. One fridge magnet, which I'd already lost by the time I got home. Yeah. Born to be wild. I'd had a couple of beers, Alice. So he's done a gig in front of 3,000 people. If I should live to grow old, he said in his speech that evening, the scenes here will shine as brightly to my dull eyes 50 years, hence as now. So he found the rest of America a little bit much. He didn't like the unjust society of the South. He found the impossible celebrity fandom of the North difficult to handle because

it moved very easily from affection to harassment. But in New York he did feel much closer to home and you know he thought to himself New York is the one place I can really empathize with and it's where I feel comfortable. So he said that there are those in this city would brighten to me the darkest winter day that ever glimmered and went out in Lappland and before whose presence even home grew dim." So he was a New Yorker really. He could write. This is his divestment of a publication. Dickens returned to the US for a reading tour in December 1867. So this is much later. Somewhat hostile American notes had caused ill feeling between him and his audience, leading to a decline in his appeal.

So he's basically... What was that? So what was the reason, sorry? Well, because American notes... So I said that they weren't meant for publication. That was meant for publication because he wrote American notes about this journey to the US. But because he'd been quite hostile towards America in American notes, it had caused a lot of ill feeling between him and his audience. So there was a decline in his appeal. But the second tour in the wake of the American Civil War, that was an unqualified success with prolonged applause after every gathering. He was basically ripping every

gig. And this time, Dickens, he leant into his celebrity because by this point he was in his mid-50s so he was much better able to appreciate being appreciated. And he thought, you know what, I'm just going to enjoy it now. So yeah, he went over there like a sort of stunned up comic in his dotage. He just smashed a load of gigs doing his best gear. Will Barron With his great hair. Will Barron Anyway, there we go. Charles Dickens in America. Will Barron Amazing. Absolutely amazing. I want to briefly great hair. Anyway, there we go. Charles Dickens in America. Amazing.

Absolutely amazing. I want to briefly say something. You asked me earlier, what's my favorite Charles Dickens book? And I said, Oliver, of course. It's Oliver Twist's. Oliver Twist, yeah, Oliver's the musical. But I thought you were such a big Dickens.

That made me look like I was lying. I thought you were such a big Charles Dickens fan. You just abbreviate everything. You're like, yeah, like our HT, I love HT. Great X is a good one. I once, we did, the reason that sounded like I was blagging it, like I was in GCSE English and the teachers asked me what my favourite Dickens book was. Yeah, the Picky Peas. Love Picky Peas.

So we did, we studied Pride and Prejudice. Pride and Prejudice in GCSEs. I handed it in an essay about it and the English teacher said, I can tell you've only watched the movie, Tom. You haven't read the book. And I said, no, that's not true. I have read the book. And she said, on two occasions you you refer to Mr Darcy as Colin Firth. Listener, she was right. Fair play to her. Rumbled. Your great tragedy is that the only thing you can do is write for Tellian podcast. Two jobs that will be taken by AI. So you need to remortgage, you need to downsize, because your life is over, Tom. I need to sell all my clothes apart from the ones I'm wearing right now and accept that

it's over. There you go, Carl Chickens. Good luck to him. All right, so I'm going to tell you now about life as a vagrant in late 19th century America. There's two books on this subject that were published in Britain and America. The first is called The Road by the American Jack London. The second- I've read some Jack London. Have you? Yeah. I've never read any Jack London. You've read The Road?

I've read the McCormack version of The Road, which is one of the bleakest things you'll ever read. Yeah, this sounds pretty bleak to be honest. Have you The Road? I've read the McCormack version of The Road, which is one of the bleakest things you'll ever read. Yeah, this sounds pretty bleak, to be honest. Have you read that? No. Well, the best books I've ever read, but it's super bleak. It's a movie. Yeah, it's post-apocalyptic sort of just horror. This is pretty bleak. The second book written on the subject of late 19th century vagrancy is called The Autobiography of a Supertramp, now which inspired the name of a certain nineties band. Get a guess? Oasis. Well, they were a seventies band, weren't they? Supertramp.

No, what am I thinking of? We go out. Yeah, no, Supertramp are seventies. Yeah. No, hang on. Oh, you're thinking of Supergrass. Oh my gosh. What is it with us and getting names wrong? What is it with us and getting names wrong? This is Oh What A Shame Live. It's happening, an Oh What A Shame mid-episode Oh What A Shame. Supertramp are a great band though. They're really good songs. So the autobiography of a Supertramp is written by Welshman William Henry Davies.

And they both introduced a new kind of travel writing, which is a view of life among the down and outs. I find this fascinating, as we touched on the star of the episode, reading a lot about the French Revolution. And it's interesting when you get the insights of peasants, because a lot of history is written by about the generals, you know, like, as opposed to the soldiers. I'm finding it right now. I'm in a real moment of just being obsessed with like those further down the social order and their

way of life. But Jack London and William Henry Davies, yeah, they launched a new type of travel writing, a life among the down and outs, people who wandered from place to place in search of food, shelter, quick money, or a way of finding out who they really were away from the pressures of modern life. To be honest, Chris, I completely agree. I find that sort of stuff far more interesting. And I think that sort of stuff far more interesting. And I think that's partly why I love Dickens so much because his writing often reflected – it did though – but it reflected the life of people who were struggling. And that's kind of why it's so interesting because it's, you know, life and death and

struggle and horror, isn't it, basically? And it's just kind of, yeah, it's amazing really. Both books were set in the United States and Canada. Jack London, his book was based in the South and the West, notably in Nevada. And William Henry Davies book, The Autopography of a Supertramp, that was based in the North and East, especially Michigan. Even when you see documentaries about kind of America now, Michigan looks like a rough place.

It's freezing most of the time. To be a vagrant would be in the late 19th century. I can imagine that being tough. William Henry Davies traveled across the Atlantic on cattle boats, working his passage from port to port. And once in America entered the world of the hobo, where he was trained up by more experienced and hardened men in the art of living life as an iterant. This is fascinating, isn't it? Yeah.

And this was also London's experience too. So he wrote in the course of my tramping, obviously this is late 19th century, he says he I encountered hundreds of hobos whom I hailed or who hailed me and with whom I waited at water tanks. Water tanks it seems have a massive role in the life of the vagrant in the late 19th century. Davies learned how to play the system to his advantage. So what he would do is, to survive, he would draw on the corruption of prison guards and essentially get a spot in a county jail over winter,

where he would be warm, clothed and fed, even though he was not actually a prisoner. What a great hack. So how was he getting into these prisons? Wow. So he would bribe prison guards to let him into the prison. And then during the day he'd be in prison, during the night and in the evenings, et cetera, he would play cards, sing, read, smoke, tell stories. But whenever he wanted, he could just leave and go for a walk. But he knew he had a place to stay. Will Barron Lurie

Bloody hell. Will Barron It's crazy, right? Will Barron Like an open prison, I suppose. Will Barron That's incredible. Yeah. Will Barron Wow. That's it. Will Barron But you know your life's tough if that's the favourable option. If that's the loophole you've spotted. Will Barron Yeah. Well, there's always prison. Will Barron You're made of tougher stuff than I am. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. or that's the favourable option. If that's the loophole you've spotted.

Well, there's always prison. You're made of tougher stuff than I am. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Wow. It feels like, I don't know, I'm feeling like there's a bit of a, like a TV show format conceit to this, isn't it? Like go to America and just see how you'd survive.

And it's like, well, my hack is, I'm just gone to the... I do admire it though. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. I do admire it. It's a great idea. But then in the American South West,, you had of course, Jack London and he basically figured out there was what he called like a hobo code.

And now I mentioned water tanks. So water tank, this is directly from London. He says, water tanks are like tramp directories. Not all in idle wantonness do tramps carve their monikers, dates and courses. Water tanks are like tramp directories. in which that person was bound and promptly the hobo to whom I gave the information left out for his power. So basically what's happening is the all these hobos these network of hobos some of whom are friends and some who want to catch up with each other they basically go to the water tanks of the town they put the date in they put their name in and they say where they're heading so like as London says water tanks essentially become tramp directories as

he says. So you basically go find whoever you want, find if they've passed through, find out where they're heading and attempt to try and catch up with whoever you're after. I had no idea. That's fascinating, that is. Sort of way marker. Yeah, exactly. That's so interesting. Like Facebook, but water taste. Yeah.

I've tagged myself in. It's on your wall. It's your Facebook wall. That is what it is, isn't it? You come back and there's a slightly embarrassing comment from your auntie underneath it. And then London goes on. So Monica is basically, the nom de rails that hobos assume or accept when thrust upon them by their fellows.

Leary Joe, for instance, was timid and was so named by his fellows. Very few tramps care to remember their past during which they ignobly worked. So monikers based upon trades are very rare. A favourite device of hobos is to base their monikers on the localities from which they hail. So you would be Doulston Tom, Welsh Ellis.

Yeah, Welsh shelless. So the water tank code did other things. It didn't just tell you where the hobos were going, right? It would give you tips about the local town. So you might get something that might have on the water tank written, uh, main drag fare, which meant that it was worthwhile begging on the high street. Other codes include bulls not hostile, which meant the police were not likely to pick on hobos in the local area. Oh, so like TripAdvisor?

Yeah, TripAdvisor. For visiting hobos. And also you might have written on there, Privates no good. What did that mean, Crane, have a guess? Privates no good? Sort of the army, the armed forces, something like that? Or toilets. They said no, privates no good means don't bother knocking on residencies for spare chains. So both London and Davies rode the rails across the country, which meant as Davies described in his book, sometimes you'd have to, because you're not buying a ticket, you're holding on to the roof of a boxcar or hiding in the corner of a wagon train or even sitting on the train bumpers. So, Davies wrote in his book, it's terrifying, isn't it?

Now that is nightmare inducing. Like, he's riding on the top, you're like, here comes a tunnel, great, this is it. Although there's a very famous passage with someone riding on the top of a, I don't know who he is, I can't remember exactly. He's riding on the top of a boxcar and it's obviously horrific and he glances through the window. There's a father trying to change the underpants of his three-year-old child and then shitty tissue lands on his head and the vagrant on top says to himself, it could be worse. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's worth it now. Just to have seen that. A cock up on such a grand scale,

such a grand historic scale. A tale of two cock ups. I've seen it all now. Exactly. Wow. No, the bravery required to just cling onto the top of a train. I mean, it's the tunnels that I'm worried about. It's the tunnels that are kind of handy. Yeah. You want it to be at least five feet to clearance. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think I'm going to say I'm lying flat the whole way in case we come across a train. What, on the top? Just face down.

I don't think you want to be on the top. Cheek to the roof. Well. Where would you be? Ah, actually, let me read you this. There's a great excerpt from William Henry Davies in that book, the Autobiography of a Supertrain, that describes what it was like to ride on these trains. So he writes, sometimes we were fortunate enough to get an empty car. Great. If you see that, that is the dream.

That's four empty seats in a table, isn't it, on the train? Oh, man. On an empty carriage, no one's hustling. Lovely. He says, sometimes we had to ride the bumpers. And often while travelling through a hostile country, we rode on the roof of a car, so as not to give the brakesmen an opportunity of striking us off the bumpers unawares. So that's like slamming the brakes and then you're flying off the bumpers. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Of course. And you're going to get injured. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Of course. And you're gonna get injured.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, I mean, there's a horrible code of this. Sometimes we were desperate enough to ride the narrow iron rods which were under the car. Can you imagine this? No. Right. Only a few feet from the track.

This required some nerve for it was not only uncomfortable, but the train, being so near the line, seemed to be running at a reckless and uncontrollable speed. Whereas, when riding on the car's top, a much faster train seems to be running much slower and far smoother and safer. Imagine that! Yeah. Horrendous. I'm beneath the train, just a few feet from the ground. Oi yoi yoi.

People were nuts. People were nuts. People were nuts. Yes, where are you going? I'm roof. I'm definitely roof. Oh yeah, I'm roof. But I'm lying down throughout. But you're not going to get gaffed.

I mean, yeah, the roof does sound like a far better option. So you were worried about the... I reckon I could handle the roof. The tunnels would be a worry. You can't handle the roof. I reckon I could handle the roof. That's the phrase, isn't it? You can't handle the roof. I reckon I could handle the roof. That's the phrase, isn't it? You can't handle the roof.

Very good. Thank you. So you express some concern about how safe this was. Well, I can reveal that Davies would eventually return to Britain and would lose part of his leg during a railroad accident in 1899. He attempted to jump between moving cars, fell and got his leg trapped. No. His leg could not be saved and it completely changed his life.

He went on to write poems, novels and other memoirs of his life on the road. So yeah, that is part of the danger. Lovely that we've ended this podcast. We began it with a horrifying train story and we've ended it with a story that is, I would say, not as bad. Did his severed leg land on his own head? In that case, it's a perfect, it's the perfect story to call back to my experience. He severed his leg and then remembered that in order to clean it up, he'd have to try and access the baby wipes, which were, of course, lodged in the middle of his suitcase. I suppose the sort of question from all of this really, this repeat point that keeps

coming back with, especially with my stories of Greek travellers and yours there, is this spirit of adventure and the true unknown, which is gone now. Does any part of you feel that's a loss? Is that something you think you could have ever embraced? Or are you happy we now live in a world where you book your thing, you know where your hotel is, you can read trip-avide reviews, you know exactly what's going to be served to you? Well, you know where there is still a spirit of adventure and not knowing and the unknown? The deep. Right to the bottom of the Pacific or the Atlantic. Or space.

Do you know what, Ellis? I genuinely thought you were about to plug your tour again. No, no. A genuine sense of the unknown. Go to one of Ellis's previews. Yeah, yeah. I mean, I haven't learned all the routines. I am reading off notes. It's the spirit of unknown. Give us the venues again, Ellis. Let's close with the venues. Where are they? Yeah, you could go to the deep. You could go to the bottom of the Pacific, or you could go to the London Welsh Centre on Grazing Road on the 18th, 20th, 21st and 22nd, do check

out my social media, and the 23rd at the Lyric Theatre in Carmarthen, two shows, six o'clock and eight o'clock. Embrace the unknown. Embrace the unknown, if you can't manage if you can't manage to make it to space or the bottom of the Pacific or the Atlantic. It's a part of humanity that you would come to one of my Welsh language previews. And as we found out, travelling in ancient Greece would cost you three months wages. This won't even touch the size of a ticket to get to the HG. Well actually it's six months wages. I've got to make money. I'm convinced now that I'm going to

lose my job as a podcaster to AI. So it's nine grand a ticket. That's it for this episode of Oh What A Time. Thank you so much for giving your time today. I've loved this. What an interesting bunch of topics today. I've really enjoyed that one. If you have any suggestions for future shows you'd like us to do, do get in contact, email us, WhatsApp us.

You can't do that. Instagram us. No, you can WhatsApp me personally if you're a friend. Oh yeah, WhatsApp Ellis directly. But do send them in because we're always interested to hear your ideas and we'll try and put as many as we can into motion. If you want extra subscriber episodes and episodes early, etc etc, you can become a full-timer.

For all your options go to owattertime.com Otherwise, goodbye. See you next week. And if you are listening to this on top of a train keep your head down and turn the volume up because you probably missing stuff because of the wind thanks guys So The Thank you.