Oh What A Time... - #87 Milk (Part 1)

Episode Date: January 13, 2025

Oh What A Time! is back for 2025 and this week we’ve got an episode we’ve been promising (and threatening) for a while: milk! Whatever happened to milk bars? What’s the history behind milk alternatives? Plus, we’ve also got lots on the humble milk float.And all this chat of milk bars got us thinking: has there been a greater loss to the high street than Wimpy? (And after a quick google, a new question: who even knew Wimpy is thriving?!). If you’ve got anything to add, you can email: [e-mail] you fancy a bunch of OWAT content you’ve never heard before, why not treat yourself and become an Oh What A Time: FULL TIMER?Up for grabs is:- two bonus episodes every month!- ad-free listening- episodes a week ahead of everyone else- And much moreSubscriptions are available via AnotherSlice and Wondery +. For all the links head to: ohwhatatime.comYou can also follow us on: X (formerly Twitter) at @ohwhatatimepodAnd Instagram at @ohwhatatimepodAaannnd if you like it, why not drop us a review in your podcast app of choice?Thank you to Dan Evans for the artwork (idrawforfood.co.uk).Chris, Elis and Tom xSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Wondery Plus subscribers can listen to episodes of Oh What A Time early and ad free. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple podcasts. Hello and welcome back to Oh What A Time. It's 2025 and this is a history podcast that asks very valid historical questions such as the one my wife suggested to me, which is that she asked me, why do you think, you know, when people died, you would pop a coin over people's eyes on the corpse? Now I said, I think that was, isn't it to like pay the ferryman? She said, no, she thinks it was like a rumour started by funeral directors so that people would, in

mourning, would leave coins on the corpse of the deceased that they could then steal prior to burying them. Okay. I would counter that, Sophie. In that case, why have they suggested the penny? Why wouldn't they go with the £2 coin for the ferryman? I have a different solution. Based on our holidays, the three of us went on holidays corn

all over the new year. And the three of us saw the same thing, a dead dolphin on the beach. Oh my God, yeah. We did. And it had its eyes. As did all our children. As did all our children.

Yeah, very real. And they loved it more than we did. The dolphin had had its eyes pecked up by seagulls. I would have loved a two pound coin to have been placed over those eyes. He would have certainly would have lessened my nightmares. Would it though? The queen's face coming out of the side of a dolphin's pecked skull. You needed a whole bag of two peas just to fill up the eye socket enough. It'd be like those two pea machines at the arcade. If anything as well, the sight of a, you've just described it there, dolphin missing an eye. If anything, the sight was even more gruesome than that.

The blood was trickling down of his eye socket. It was the most horrific scene imaginable. The kids, and there were eight kids there, loved it. That speaks to, I think about that, we've talked on this show so many times about the guillotine, people gathering for public hangings, the delight in gore and death, as our kids went back for a second look at the dead dolphin, having done a bit of paddling and then going back to see more of the dead body. The best thing is my daughter, because all of our kids were there, but my daughter's the eldest.

And she'd come up with the idea, we're having such a good time in Cornwall, I think we should write a newspaper. So we'll write the newspaper, and I'll be the editor and everyone can submit articles and two of the other girls who were a little bit younger than Betty saw the dolphin first and I heard them say, gotta tell Betty this has to be front page news and it was. It was, this is surely we lead with this. So it's going to be main art, it's going to be main article.

And we'll get Betty to write an editorial piece about, I don't know, sort of life and death nature. What comes next? They, however, Ellis took the unusual approach of doing three pictures of the journalists as in the children who'd covered the story, but not an image of the dolphin itself, which is quite a strange approach to a front of a newspaper. Normally the image reflects the news story. It's not just a huge image of the person who's written the article. It's kind of funny, I like Tim Shipman's pieces about Downing Street in the Times, but if he's writing a big article about, I don't know, Boris Johnson, I want there to be a

picture of Boris, not a picture of Tim. Yeah. It's a massive picture of the journalist. Especially if the lead story is Boris getting his eyes pecked out by seagulls. Exactly. Especially. So yeah, that was our New Year's. It wasn't it? It was a lot of death.

There was also another, there was also a dead seal. It wasn't it? It was a lot of death. There was also another, there was also a dead seal we saw on another beach. I missed the seal. It was quite a, quite a tour of death actually. Yeah, my, I missed the seal because my son was building a dam on the beach. So I missed the dead seal. I did see the dead dolphin. I was talking to Betty about this yesterday and she said, and the cats brought in a dead pigeon. three dead things. And I was like, kids are weird. Well, I don't know if you actually read the kids' newspaper that they produced, but actually

they'd made a list of all the dead animals all of them had seen, of which there was a seal, a dolphin. But then I think one of the kids had claimed to have seen a dead crane at some point. Right. Wow. To be clear, the bird, not me. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. A man who looked a bit like me in a bush.

All the pictures were of the kids, so you couldn't tell what they were talking about. Yeah. A dead crane. Good grief. So, to come back to Sophie's point that funeral directors are stealing the pennies, nah. I don't think there's any chance that's the case. In fact, I think it comes from, isn't it like an ancient Egyptian idea, the idea of Ibis and the River Nile or something like that? Is it the River Sphinx? I can't remember. I'm groping for the right words here, but I think it's quite an ancient

practice. We've even covered this before. This is pre-funeral edraxes. Good news. I pre-researched this and it is... Oh, lovely. ...from ancient Greek mythology, you need to pay Sharon, the ferryman of the underworld to cross the river Styx and enter the afterlife. The coin, often referred to as an obel, was placed either on the eyes or in the mouth of the deceased as payment. I first heard of pay the ferryman because that is how on the wonderful podcast 3 Bean

Salad they advertise their Patreon page. The jingle is, it's time to pay the ferryman. And I was like, oh, is that an ancient Greek term for monetising your podcast? Also, to be fair to ferrymen, 2p is not bad value to take you into the afterlife, is it? I mean, people are excited by an easy jet flight to Magaloo for 18 quid. This is 2p to take you across the river Sphinx into whatever it's called. How easy is it though? That's decent. That's a decent, more than fair prize.

Because you could pay me a quarter of a million quid and I couldn't take you into the afterlife. We could have a good party, but I couldn't give you a dinner life. If I turn up at the river to the afterlife and there's a number of boats waiting for me and one of them is captained by you, Ellis, I am not getting in your boat. There is no way you are not getting swept along with the current and I find myself in hell. Two feet down and in hell. Two feet down and in hell. You'd be bucket in the water out furiously as soon as you step in it.

Skinton in hell. Nice one. Yeah. Nice one. As you paddle out struggling as a current is at that point you notice that every other ferryman has an outboard motor on his boat. Oh yeah. But that's how they get across. Which, but I say I'm so sorry, I'm so sorry. I can't believe this is happening again. Yeah.

So what are we talking about on today's show? What is today's, this is the first show of 2025. What are we talking about? It is the podcast you've all been waiting for. It's the topic you've all been yearning for. We are doing a three-part historical podcast about milk. Mmm.

Milk, I mean, we've all seen it. We all know what it is. And if you're not lactose intolerant, you've tasted it. Yeah, yeah, big time. Yeah, boy. But what is it really? But what is milk? What is it really? Beneath the surface, what is milk really? And historically, where does it come from?

So today, that's what we're discussing. I'm going to be talking about the history of the milk float and the milk bottle. It's generally very interesting. I am going to be discussing the phenomenon of the National Milk Bar. And I'm going to be discussing alternatives to milk through history. Oh, what an exciting milk adventure we're about to head off on. But first, should we have some correspondence? Let's milk it for all it's worth.

I could see that little smile forming as I was talking. That was a smile that said, I've come up with something, but not a smile that actually I felt that it was anything amusing. I didn't genuinely think it was funny. Okay, our first email of 2025. Now this isn't really a, it's not like a one day time machine, it's none of that sort of stuff. This is an idea for something he thinks we need to get discussed and sorted on the pod.

Dale Cookson has emailed to say, Hey guys, I have had an idea. The Best Idea Yet podcast calls their fans yetis. Morbid podcast calls their fans weirdos. My suggestion for fans of Oh What A Time is histridiotes. I briefly considered histriots but it lacks punch, she says. I think you should hold a contest to find out the killer name for your listeners. I like that.

So he wants a collective name for people that listen to Oh What A Time. PCDs on Elis and John. Is that what it is? Okay. What does that, what does that, that, that podcast devotees, it should actually be PDs, but we're 10 years in now. I got that wrong straight away. And it's stuck. We've got a whole host of things, Lance and John. Ones, if you've been listening since the beginning.

Retro Ones, if you've gone back to the beginning and come into it late. Yes. Zigzag Ones, if you've listened to them all, but you haven't done them in order. to them all, but you haven't done them in order. My favourite one is that if you are a big fan of the excellent standup comedian and story show writer, Daniel Kitson, you're a Dunorak. That's great. That's good. Love that.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Any thoughts, Chris? Well, obviously the acronym is, oh, what a time. Oh, what? So is this the thing? Oh, what? O-Waters?

That's it. We've got it. I didn't think it would be as easy as that. Did you, Al? I mean, I don't mind O-Water. I've tried to sound it close to train spotting, but not quite. When I came up with wonder, John took the piss and was like, I wonder, I've got to do something a bit more imaginative than that.

And then that's when everyone is used. So I think, you know, oh, what a bit, if you can come up with a better one than that. Well, this is what Dale wants the listeners to do. Dale wants you all to email in, okay, to O What A Time and tell us what you think the collective name should be for you, the lovely listener. We have the O What A Time full timers, the O What A Full Timers, which is the collective name we have for people who are subscribers to the show. But I think we need a more general phrase for people who listen. So, you can email the show and let us know what that name should be. He's also suggested, by the way, it's a good plan is a killer slogan for some

merch. What is it? It's a good plan. That's from you Chris. No, I think it was Ellis, wasn't it? Talking about your key system. Oh, yes. Where you, the wife, the mother-in-law share a single key. It's a good plan. It's a good plan. We still haven't rectified that. So there you go, Dale Cookson.

Do email in, give us an idea for what you think should be called, and we will announce a winner over the next few weeks. And if you want to get in touch with the show, here is how. Alright you horrible lot, here's how you can stay in touch with the show. You can email us at hello at earl A Time dot com and you can follow us on Instagram and Twitter at EarlWhat A Time pod. Now clear off. Okay so this is the long promised milk episode and later in the show I'll be talking about milk alternatives through history,

of which there are many. So at the end of this show I'm going to be talking about the history of the milk round and the milk bottle, which is actually more interesting than that sounds. And I'm getting us started with the milk bar, the National Milk Bar. It was a reference to the National Milk Bar that gave us the idea for an entirely milk-based episode because there used to be a National Milk Bar in Aberystwyth when I was growing up and it was there until bizarrely recently.

Now the campaign against booze has been waged for centuries and temperance campaigners, I mean, there was obviously actual prohibition in the U.S. at one point in the 1920s, I think, but you had temperance campaigners, I mean, there was obviously actual prohibition in the US at one point in the 1920s, I think. But you had temperance campaigners and they were trying all sorts of approaches to wean people away from beer because you'd had cold deals, you'd had fizzy drinks, you'd had tonic waters, mineral water, all sorts of stuff. But in the interwar years, fresh impetus was given to the, I suppose, most unlikely of a booze alternative, milk. Now the idea was to overturn milk's image, because milk, oddly, had quite a feminine image. So

they wanted to give it a sales boost and develop venues where milk could be drunk in an atmosphere and a setting that sort of evoked the pub. So there'd be stools, there'd be a bar, and then you'd have jukeboxes and sort of like American things to turn milk into like a cool drink. When was this else? This is between the wars. So in the 1920s, 1930s. So in the same way, I mean, in A Clockwork Orange, you know, they go to a milk bar don't they, the sort of the droogs, Alex and his droogs go to a milk bar. Now the world's first milk bar,

the Lakeview Milk Bar was opened by James Meadow Charles in Bangalore in India in 1930, and the idea soon caught on in Britain as well, with an Australian former miner, Hugh Macintosh, taking the lead. Mason- India feels like a strange place for a milk bar. A very hot country. Hot, humid country. Do you want like a pint of milk when it's 38 degrees? Yes. Literally. But also, milk as a drink is not the kind of thing you can have a lot of. Like if you're going to a milk bar, you could possibly have one large glass of it before you get really ill. I was talking about this over New Year's. Do you remember the film The Big Lebowski and in it he just drinks

white Russians, which is vodka and milk I think? Have you ever gone on the piss drinking pina colada? Yes. Like an hour in you're like, what am I doing? I went on a night out once and was like, I'm just going to drink white Russians tonight. I reckon I had three before I started throwing up. Yeah. Mike Bubbins made such a good point on Distant Pod where people complain the morning after. They're like, oh my God, I've got to knock the booze on the head, man. I had 10 pints. I feel terrible today. If you had 10 pints of milk, you'd feel horrific.

Your bones would feel good. It was awful. Awful. I had 10 pints of Tyser last night. I once drunk an eight pack of Capri Sun and it is the most hungover I've ever been. Oh, that sounds absolutely horrendous. I bought, you know, those long boxes. They sell boxes of Capri Sun and I drunk all, and obviously there's so much sugar, my body just didn't know what to do with it. Yeah, absolutely.

And it was just a hangover like I've never had before. It was, I was so weird. Oh, so Prohibition, it's like when I used to drink Red Bull, I would feel very odd the next day. Prohibition lasted from 1920 to 1933 in the US. Now then, so he opened his milk bar on Fleet Street in London and it proved a remarkable success. Within 18 months, he had a chain of 11, eight in London, three outside, all run under the name Black and White Milk B remarkable success. Within 18 months, he had a chain of 11, eight in London, three outside, all run under the name Black and White Milk Bars Limited. Now his rivals, they were rival milk bars, including United Milk Bars Limited,

which was based in Scotland, the Yorvill-based Adams Milk Bars, which specialise in mobile facilities. You had a milk bar van, everyone's drinking cool milk, this really cool drink from a cool milk van. And then you had the Derby based Super Milk Bars and the National Milk Bar Chain, which was headquartered in Mid Wales. That's the one I remember.

Wow. So by April 1937, it was estimated that there were as many as 600 milk bars in existence all over Britain. Many of them merely single cafes rather than as part of a chain, with a further three or four hundred opened by the end of the year. We were milk mad. Are we imagining this is like a bar with taps with skimmed, semi-skimmed and full fat behind? Is it like that? What are we imagining this is? I don't know. I don't know when semi-skimmed and skimmed came in actually. This is pre-Almond milk as well.

But also, yeah. This is dairy. But they were also, you know, they were certainly after the war. I think British government and British politics had seen the power of the state during World War II. I remember Michael Foot saying it was actually very exciting for us as associates because you could see what the state was capable of, you know, because obviously everyone was united in the war effort. The Beverage Report came out in 1940, in 1942 I think, I'm riffing now, but I think it was 1942, but, and that became a bestseller because people were trying to get rid of unemployment and they were desperate to get rid of, you

know, slums and improve education and all that kind of stuff. People were given orange juice on the state at one point because we had a sick population. And you were trying to improve the lot of working people. And milk was a health drink. My mother still thinks of milk as a health drink. If there's ever a positive news story about milk, my mother shares it on social media. You're right. I consider milk a health drink. I also consider Lucas aid a health drink.

That's because you're 80. And I'm from Essex. To my mind, a glass of milk is quite healthy. It's fattening, I guess, but to my mind, it's doing you some good. I always think of boxers drinking milk. Yeah, exactly. I've just sent you a picture of a milk bar from London in the 50s. Have a look at this. This is exactly what I imagine a milk bar to look like in London in the 50s.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I love it. A guy with a white coat, kind of between like a scientist and a cocktail maker. And there's just like a nice saloon bar, bar stools and a gentleman with like hats there, sat having glasses of milk. And there's a sign that says open day and night, always ready, a large variety of sandwiches. That is a, that is a world that I love to imagine in the past. Yeah, yeah, I bet you that was on like Dean Street off Oxford Street in central London. Yeah. Well, you can clearly see a sign that says Bear Street,

but that's fine. Oh God. Yeah. Yeah. Sorry. I've just seen that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But where's Bear Street? Where is Bear Street? Let's find out now. Okay. We go. Where is Bear Street in London? It's just off Letter Square. Yes. Lovely. I think Bear Street in London? Here we go. It's just off Leicester Square. Yes! Lovely. I think Bear Street's come up before as a place where they used to have Fives courts. I think Bear Street might have come up before in this podcast talking about places where they used to- I remember there were three milk bars on Bear Street.

The first one served milk that was just a bit too hot. Oh, don't you are a... Enough! The second milk bar, bear with me, bear with me, okay? It was too cold. But the final milk bar, Al, the final milk bar... anyway, keep going. It was just right, it was just right. Now then, so you've got hundreds of these milk bars. Six million gallons of milk were consumed by the various bars patrons, which was a real coup for the Milk Marketing Board. Now, the National Milk Bar, once a very common site in mid-North Wales, Liverpool and in the gallons of milk were consumed by the various bar's patrons, which was a real coup for the Milk Marketing Board.

Now the National Milk Bar, once a very common site in mid-North Wales, Liverpool and in the Welsh Marches, was the brainchild of husband and wife, Robert William and Florence Griffiths, and Robert's brother, Moses Griffiths, who was then Professor of Agriculture at Aberystwyth University.

Robert was a Montgomeryshire dairy farmer by background, and at one time supplied cream to the Harrods department store in London and he envisaged the milk bar as a way of selling his products directly to consumers rather than going through intermediaries. The first National Milk Bar Cafe was opened in the seaside resort of Colwyn Bay in 1933. Llandudno followed not long afterwards. Aberystwyth, the 56 Terrace Road, I remember it very well, closed in 2010. Wow! Opened in 1935. Then there were ones in Birmingham, Liverpool and Manchester in 1936. Wrexham in March

1937. By the time Cardiff's first milk bar opened in September 1937, Swans already had two. So, Al, you say you remember it well, the one in Aberystwyth. Have you been to a milk bar? Yeah, it was open until 2010. I used to go to Aberystwyth as a kid. So, yeah, I have been in a milk bar, but not since I was about eight or nine. It was very old fashioned, sort of formica tables. A bit like, you know, when you go into one of London's remaining pie and mash shops, it's like you're going back in time.

Yeah. And you think, I like the signage is old. And so yeah, I mean, I haven't been in one for a very long time, but I vividly remember where it was. So as I said, so I've kind of had one, but Swan's already had two by that point. So, National Milk Bar, in his corporate colours of emerald and cream, thrived after the Second World War

with a chain expanding to include as many as 17 outlets. You had some in Shrewsbury, Welshpool, Oswestry, Old Colwyn, Canarfon, Pothmadag, Bangor, Llanidloes, Rhyl, Newtown, Mychanlleth. All eventually added to the list of places where the company was visible. In Welshpool, at one point, the Milk Bar was the only eatery in town. So it had a complete monopoly. If you wanted to eat out in Welshpool, you had to go to the milk bar. That's amazing.

So there was a branch in Lime Street in Liverpool. Lime Street obviously is where the main station is in Liverpool. So that provided a big connection with the Beatles apparently. Apparently the Beatles used to go to milk bars. Because you know, if you look at like the mods, that was a very cafe based culture. So there was a time when teenagers who were a little bit of disposable income would just go and hang out in cafes. So as Brian Epstein said, we got intoxicated with power and Coca-Cola and four packets of biscuits. So, you know, like the idea of the milk bar, it was attached to Beatlemania because it was a kind of cool sort of hangar.

Now, the firm developed through the 70s into the 1980s. Its value grew from around half a million pounds of turnover a year to three million quid by 1987. And obviously, by 1987, there was a there was a growth of alternatives. You had fast food restaurants, you had burger chains. But then in the 1990s and more especially in the 2000s, the Milk Bar. I mean this is such a bizarre sentence, but I remember it. But if you don't remember it, it looks absolutely crazy. The Milk Bar faded from the high street. So in 2010, it was just one left. There was one in Erasmia Port. Now the killer

of the milk bar, incredibly, was coffee. Will Barron Oh! Oh yeah? Okay. Will Barron Because you had coffee shops and cafes that filled High Street and Outer Town shopping centres. You had Starbucks, Costa, Caffe Nero, etc. And the milk bar. Which like Wimpy, now there was still a Wimpy in Carmarthen until about 2011. Like I grew up going to Wimpy and not McDonald's. There was no McDonald's in Carmarthen until I was about 18. So I was a Wimpy kid.

But it was, the thing with Wimpy, there's one in South London, not too far from me. There's one in Streatham. My wife used to live in Streatham and it was the last Wimpy in the UK. I'd always used to think of them calling head office and it just ringing. No one's there. It was the last Wimpy in the UK. I'd always used to think of them calling head office and it just ringing. No one's there. I went to a jazz club in Eltham about two years ago. And before I went to the gig, I had a Wimpy.

So I think there's one in Eltham on the Sydney walls. Yeah. There's also one near Elstree Studios. I think there is. It's not still going there, that one. Yeah. There's a few left. Yeah.

Yeah. And I, there are, because there's one, there's certainly when I was doing circuit standup, there used to be one in a services on the M5. Cause I really like wimpy. It's like, it's my favourite burger as well. Wimpy burger. So I would always make an effort to have a wimpy. Hang on a minute. I've just got, there's a, there's 59 wimps in the UK. I'm on the wimpy set. I'm on the wimpy website. I think there's one in Margate or there used to be one in Margate. They're everywhere. They're 12 in London. I loved it. Is a wimpy burger really, I've never had a wimpy burger. Is it really your favourite burger? Yes. Why? Give me the big sell

and why I should try a wimpy burger. Lovely seeded bun. Okay. Yeah. Wholemeal bread. A beautiful amount of diced onion. Yeah. Yeah. And you get it on a plate. Yes. That seems to be the big selling point, isn't it? And I prefer the chips. Really?

Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Should we go to a wimpy together one day? I'm up for that. Okay. I will come to a wimpy with you. So you never ate in a wimpy... Was there not a wimpy in Bath?

There wasn't a wimpy growing up. No. Not that I remember. Or at least I didn't go to it. I'm staggered by that. I used to have birthday parties in wimpy. Maybe there was one, but I didn't go to it, yeah. The problem, and I don't want to upset anyone, any of our listeners who work in wimpy, or maybe who are shareholders in wimpy, or I mean, I'm reaching for the stars here, directors of Wimpy. Mr Wimpy himself. Mr Wimpy himself.

Yeah, exactly. It is an old fashioned experience. Proper 80s, isn't it? I associate it with the 80s more than anything. It is, it is very 1980. It's not as 1980s as going to a national milk bar, which felt old fashioned in the 1980s. I'm on the Wimpy menu. They've started doing raps.

I don't know if I agree with that. It's a bit too modern. Oh, come on. Stick to what you know. What are you doing? I guarantee you, a little bell has just gone off in Wimpy headquarters as you've gone on their website. 0001. Don't know what's going to happen though.

They're going to be so pleased with this review of Wimpy. I'm going to be recording a podcast. I'm going to be recording this in a couple of weeks time. And then halfway through my bit, the door will go and I'll say, oh, sorry, boys. So you'll pause the recordings and you'll go make a cup of tea. I'll come back looking ashen-faced and I'll say it's from Wimpy Head Off It. It's a thousand frozen Wimpy burgersers with all of the diced onion. Because I said they were my favourite ones. They've sent me complimentary Wimpy Burgers and I don't

know. We haven't got a chest freezer. I don't know where I'm going to keep them all. It's actually more of a problem than a gift. And a thousand plates. Is it called a curly burger? What was it called? It was a bender and a bun. Bender and it. Yeah. Will Barron They've changed it now. It's called a, what they call it? They call it like a bendy sausage. Will Barron Aww. Will Barron Yeah. Will Barron Because of woke. Will Barron They've gone woke.

Will Barron So the thing with the Wimpy Barn, it does, you know, and the National Macbeth obviously did evoke a different time. Will Barron Yes. Will Barron And it couldn't really compete. Will Barron Can I just say that when I did the 90s football podcast, Quickly Kevin with Josh Whitcomb, once we mentioned chocolate Cadbury's boost bars and Cadbury's sent us a thousand boost bars. So if anyone from Wimpy is listening, we would very much like 1000 classic beef burgers.

Send them to Chris. Yeah, yeah. Izzy will leave me if I get a thousand burgers delivered to the house. If anyone from Cadbury's is listening to this as well, I'll just take the boosts again. I will happily take a thousand boosts. For anything really. If anyone works for any company and can get me a thousand of anything. What, landmines?

That's an interesting thing. Contact us. Do you work for a firm? What could you send us a thousand of? We just want to know what it is and we'll tell you on the show whether we want it or not. But for God's sake don't send it without asking first. Will Barron If you work for Armani, do send it and I'll

sell it. The fact is, I mean this must be very ironic for anyone who works in a National Milk Bar. The most popular coffees in Britain now are mainly made of milk because it's the latte, the flat white and the cappuccino. And the surviving El Ismere Port branch of the National Milk Bud describes itself now as a coffee shop. But there was a time when milk was a big, big drink. That is so interesting. I've got a final question on that,

is how people were using it. Do you think it was like a daytime thing that people were going for drinks? Or do you think it would have been like part of a night out you'd stop for a milk on the way to the pub? What were you thinking? How would you use it? Will Barron I reckon it was more of a teenage thing. Jason Vale Okay, yeah. Will Barron Because I mean, I could be wrong. From my memory,

the National Milk Bar was quite milkshake orientated. Jason Vale I guess it's been replaced as well. You know, you get these bizarre cake shops, like people like, you know, like patisseries that specialise in really nice cakes. I see them springing up. They don't appear to be coffee shops, like people like, you know, like, patisseries that specialise in really nice cakes. I see them springing up. They don't appear to be coffee shops, like people who just want to grab a cake. I would say if you had been frozen in the year 2000 and came back, the thing that would amaze you about the British High Street now is coffee shops, just how many there are. Yes.

You know, three or four next to each other. When I was growing up in the town I lived in, there was one tea shop that did coffee. Sorry, you're just saying, if you'd been frozen for how long? Since the year 2000. Since the year 2000, okay, yeah, yeah. You'd be amazed at how many coffee shops there are.

But I thought you said thousands of years, because I thought that his initial reaction would be cars, electricians. Not that there's three coffee shops on a high street. Oh, no, no, no, no. Since the year 2000, coffee shops, vape shops. Completely. Which obviously didn't exist. And cupcake shops at one point. Do you remember that? The sort of British cupcake revolution. Yeah, huge. I would walk around thinking, who is eating all these cupcakes? Chris, to answer just on that, I think one of the reasons that a lot of these cake shops

have sprung up, people for religious or cultural reasons don't drink, it's a social place to hang out. So this is one of the reasons they've become very popular, especially with young people who don't drink. Of course, of course. So that's one of the reasons. Also, Gen Z aren't drinking as much, so... There you go.

But do you know what? I think we're stumbling on a good business idea here. People want somewhere to hang out and have that social bar vibe without the alcohol. Milk bars once were there. These cake shops are springing up. We need a new shop with a new beverage. And it's something we've discussed previously. Tom Crane's Custard Bar. People like sweet things.

Oh, I love that. Custard, it's a bit, we've established as an underrated beverage. That would be so great. Can we do a pop-up? Let's just test the waters. The difference, right, between the 1950s and now,

is that in the 1950s, custard would be marketed as a sort of health drink. Yeah. Whereas now it would be loads and loads of different flavours and it would be things like they'd be caffeinated custard. Yeah. So it'd be like a glass of custard. Nothing with a king. That would be that's how I'd sell it. With a double espresso in it and then you'd have mustard custard as well. We have a little bit of mustard in it. And you have a Christmas custard and yeah, yeah. Protein custard for sort of gym bunnies on the way to the gym knocking back a protein

custard. I tell you what, we're onto something here. You got like a business custard. I tell you what, we're onto something here. You can have a business custard. It'd be nice to have the caffeinated business custard that peps you up before your big meeting. Are you telling me if you lived within five minutes of a custard bar, you wouldn't on occasion go and have a lovely cup of custard? Yeah, before a job interview, I'd go for a business custard, absolutely. If you opened a custard bar out of a sick sense of just wanting to see what this establishment was, I would have a cup of custard.

I think most people would. All of our listeners would. Yeah, well that's not enough to sustain the business. Or maybe it is actually. If they all game regularly, it would be actually, to be fair. I think the problem with your custard bar crane is that people are going to go in for one cup of custard and realise it's quite heavy. This is not a drink.

Oh, well we need a name for the Collective Known For Our Listeners and we also need a name for Tom's Custard Bar. Tom Crane's Custard Bar. That sells business custard and Christmas custard. Yeah. It's Crane's Custard. That's the initial working title. A name for Crane's Custard Bar and a name for the loyalty scheme.

Mustard Custard. You get six splats, you get a free custard. The stamp is like a yellow splat. Yellow t-shirts, that's the merch. This is perfect. I'll be there. Also, here's a great one. Pastel de Nata. Do you know those? The Portuguese sort of custardy little cake thing. Yeah, yeah, yeahy little cake things. It's the nicest thing you'll ever eat. That's custard, but in a food form. Will Barron Do you remember that famous photo of Pete Doherty finishing a fry-up in Market?

Will Barron Yes. Will Barron Because you don't get it as much in the UK as you do in the US, but it'd be like an eating challenge. And if it's some daft portion, if you can finish it, you get it free. US, but it'd be like an eating challenge. And if it's some daft portion, if you can finish, you get it free. They'd be like Tom Crane's old custard bastard challenge. It's like if you get 50 cups of custard in 50 minutes, you get the 50 first free. Will Barron There's a bath full of custard put in the shop every day and anyone who can drink it on their own with a million pounds. No, it's not possible, but it is enough to draw people in. You get Adam Rich's out of retirement to do a one final man versus custard.

There you go. Well, sum your name if it's good enough and you're willing to back it financially I'll make it happen. And that is the end of part one. In part two I'm going to be talking about the history of the milk round and the milk bottle. Chris, what are you going to be talking about? I'll be talking about milk alternatives through history. There you go.

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