Oh What A Time... - #9 Humour

Episode Date: September 10, 2023

Let's have a historical laugh shall we? This week we're analysing what has registered as 'humour' through the ages. We'll be taking a look at the kind of gags you might see chiselled on the walls of ancient Egypt, why the ancient Greek's found flatulence so amusing plus we trawl through the kind of jokes doing the rounds in the Soviet Union. And the world's greatest feature ONE DAY TIME MACHINE returns! Let us know where in history you'd like to go for one day and also please fill us in on your time travel rules: [e-mail] This first series will contain 12 episodes that we’ll be releasing weekly. If there's an episode you'd like to hear, please let us know! Aaannnd if you like it, why not drop us a review in your podcast app of choice? (Thus taking heed of our increasingly desperate pleas for reviews). Oh and please follow us on Twitter at @ohwhatatimepod And Instagram at @ohwhatatimepod And thank you toDr Daryl Leeworthy for his help with this week’s research. Thank you to Dan Evans for the artwork (idrawforfood.co.uk). And thank you for listening!  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Eligibility and member terms apply. Looking for a collaborator for your career? A strong ally to support your next level success? You will find it at York University School of Continuing Studies, where we offer career programs purpose-built for you. Visit continue.yorku.ca. Hello and welcome to Oh What A Time, the history podcast that tries to decide if the past was as awful as it seems. I'm Tom Crane. I'm Chris Scull.

I'm Ellis James. Each week on this show we'll be looking at a new historical subject and today we're going to be discussing your friend and mine, humour. From chiselled gags in ancient Egypt to fart jokes in ancient Greece plus the kind of one-liners you were likely to hear in the Soviet Union. Very lucky that we're looking at humour with three of humour's experts. Yeah. You couldn't find three better people to discuss this. But please don't try. It's my safe place,

humour, is where I feel most relaxed. It's why you're so emotionally distant, Tom, and you can't talk to your wife properly, because you're obsessed with humour. It's why Claire's left you, Tom! Oh, no. So, if you like humour, Ellis,

you'll love the emails we've received this week, because they are a hoot. They are. And most of them, 99% of them, are about Britain's hottest format point. One Day Time Machine. Play the jingle. It's the One Day Time Machine.

It's the One Day Time Machine. It's the One Day Time Machine. Play the jingle. It's the One Day Time Machine. It's the One Day Time Machine. It's the One Day Time Machine. It's the One Day Time Machine. Would you like to hear yet another suggestion on the theme of One Day Time Machine? Ellis, do you want to quickly explain to listeners who may not be au fait with what that is, what is this brilliant format? You've got a time machine, but rather than going back to a period, we're making it far less general than that, far more specific. You get to go back to a specific day. So you've got a day wherever you want.

It can be a day in ancient Rome. It can be a day in medieval Britain. Who knows, right? That is completely up to you. And also the rules, crucially, are up to you. Can you fit in? Do you fit in? Are you a ghost?

Are you a coffee table very few people taking the coffee table option no one actually is on it you never see any time travel films about people who go back to become coffee tables yeah at what point do we uh admit that habitat are paying us 300 grand an episode to mention the word coffee table 15 times in the hour um i'm going to start with my favorite possibly my favorite one we've received yet i think it's genuinely quite sweet and quite moving now this is by someone called justin bedard who's got in contact with the show to say dear ellis tom and chris i'm absolutely loving the podcast and think one day time machine is a brilliant idea justin you correct. If I could go back and spend one day in the past, I will travel back to France 1945

quantum leap style and spend the day with my now deceased grandfather after he was liberated from a POW camp. Oh, wow. My grandfather, it's cool. My grandfather, called Duffy,

by all his friends, was an 18-year-old tail gunner in a B-24 bomber during World War II. And in early 1943, his plane was shot down over france and after two weeks of aiding capture he was caught by the germans who um if you're interested were the bad guys yeah this is a history podcast i wonder how many of our listeners are like what

so he then spent the next two years in a pow camp starlag 17 he was eventually liberated as the germans were marching the POWs through Austria. And after he was liberated, and I love this, while being transported back to France to be eventually taken back to the USA, he realised he may never get to see Europe again. And he deserved a bit of fun after being a prisoner. So he and a couple of friends stole an army truck,

a 50-gallon drum of dried egg doughnuts, and then proceeded to joyride throughout France. Wow. I would jump back into the body of one of his compatriots, spend then proceeded to joyride throughout France. Wow. I would jump back into the body of one of his compatriots, spend the day with my then 20-year-old grandfather joyriding around France, getting to know him as a young man, and I'd jump out right before they were caught by the military police.

I like that. That is incredible. How cool. He also says, my grandfather has the dubious distinction of being one of the few liberated POWs who has marched onto the boat, taking it back to the USA in leg irons and handcuffs Wow. He did it multiple times. Keep up the good work, gentlemen. Cheers, James Bedard.

How cool is that? Very cool. Got to be honest, using one day time machine, the world's hottest form of point, to go back and spend time with your now deceased grandfather is so much sweeter, more edifying and thoughtful than my idea of being an Edwardian coffee

table for 12 hours. Beginning to look, sort of, this made me really look at my own choices. Oh God, yeah. Have you even thought about what sort of scene you'd be part of, Ellis, as that coffee table? Have you thought about what sort of scene you'd be part of, as that coffee table? Have you thought about what sort of room are you sat in in Edwardian times? What are we looking at here?

Drawing room. Drawing room. A couple of copies of Punch magazine on top of me. Being an inanimate object is my idea of hell. At last someone says it, Chris. At last someone says it. Like, remember the end of Being John Malkovich where they're trapped in his head? What was that?

The end of Being John Malkovich is that they're trapped in John Malkovich's head and they can perceive everything that John Malkovich can see, but they have no power to control John Malkovich. So they're just trapped in someone else's consciousness for all time. Yeah. I mean, the difference between that, and I have to say it because of the contract we signed with Habitat, and being a Habitat coffee table, is that obviously a Habitat coffee table is just so aesthetically pleasing.

And of course, people can also go onto the Habitat website and use the discount code INANIMATE for time travel. Don't try that. It will not work. Charlotte Smith has also emailed the show slightly less sweet sentiment well it kind of it kind of starts in quite a sweet way hi ellis tom and chris first of all i've been loving the podcast so much thank you so much for all your hard work she listens to it in habitat doesn't she from what i understand i've read this email as well i'm getting in touch about a day in history i'd like to go back to as a history lover it's something i thought about a lot and i'd always thought i go back to. As a history lover, it's something I've thought about a lot and I'd always thought I'd want to be in Berlin

on the 9th of November, 1989, to see the fall of the Berlin Wall. However, I've realised an even greater iconic event happened in the same place the next month. I now think I'd use my day to be at the Berlin Wall on the 31st of December, 1989, to watch David Hasselhoff belting out, looking for freedom. I'm not a massive David Hasselhoff fan

but the look of pure joy and confusion on the faces of thousands of Germans makes me want to get involved I tried to fit in wearing my own light up jacket and keyboard scarf to match the Hoff because this must have been the only New Year's Eve in history that wasn't a massive letdown thanks again for a great podcast Charlotte

so that's where she'd go, David Hasselhoff, Berlin Wall The Hoff Thoughts That's a great choice, Charlotte. So that's where she'd go. David Hasselhoff, Berlin Wall. The Hoff Thoughts. That's a great choice. I vividly remember the 31st of December 1989. Why is that? Because I was allowed to stay up to watch Clive James' review of the 1980s.

So you were obsessed with the 80s even as it was ending. Yeah, yeah. You knew I'm going to spend the rest of my life reading about this period. There's not a book about the 80s I won't read. I am absolutely... I said the other day,

I said on last week's episode, I think, when we were discussing The World's Hottest Format, at what point could I go back where I could definitely fit in? And a lot of people have laughed at me for saying 1993. The idea that I know too much to fit in in 1992. And I would just give the game away. People are like, that guy is not from around here.

He's from the future. I am endlessly fascinated by the 1980s. But also the end of the 1980s, the end of the Cold War and stuff, that had dominated people's lives for over 50 years. It just felt huge. It felt massive. And then David Hasselhoff turned up. And ushered in a new era. The guy from Knight Rider. All that tussles.

And the end of the Second World War until 1990, just trying to figure out how one side could win the Cold War, inventing ever greater, more powerful atomic bombs. And all it took was the Hoff. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Exactly. And he hadn't even had his biggest TV success at that point. He was two years away from Paywatch.

So if you have any suggestions for one day time machine, be they moving, be they ridiculous, be they coffee table based wow look at that do contact the show and here is how you do it all right you horrible lot here's how you can stay in touch with the show. You can email us at hello at ohwhatatime.com and you can follow us on Instagram and Twitter at ohwhatatimepod. Now, clear off.

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That's the powerful backing of American Express. Learn more at amex.ca slash yamxtermsapply. This week I'll be talking about humour in the Soviet Union and why it was so surprisingly funny. I'll be talking about chiselled gags in ancient Egypt. I'm going to talk to you guys today about comedy in ancient Greece and its influence on comedy throughout the world. OK, so the first clue... And you're influenced, isn't he?

As a comedy writer, you're quite influenced by the work of the ancient Greeks. Yes, hugely. I'm pitching stuff in Greek as well. It's getting absolutely nothing. But I'm such... I'm so, you know... I think it's such a pure art, ancient Greek comedy. I'm going to stick with it.

You've done a little bit of research on ancient Greek comedy. Do you think there's anything that you've seen that you're like, I could steal that and I could get that on the last leg. I could get some of Britain's top comedians to say this. Because it's thousands of years old. And the only, with the greatest respect, the only people who know that you've pinched it from the ancient Greeks Will probably not be watching The Last Leg

They'll be reading the London The Long Dead Or reading the London Review of Books By the fireside Well Chris, it's interesting you ask that Because there's some jokes I'm going to test on you guys Later from ancient Greece And some of them do

They do kind of still hold up now and that's what's interesting about it and this is the influence that ancient Greek comedy had and has on comedy today it's basically shaped what we know to be comedy today so the first clue that ancient Greece would have this effect is that the word comedy comes from ancient Greece it's a combination of the words komos which is to revel and oid which is to ode which comes to sing basically and they were once used to describe a theater but in contrast to tragedy had a happy ending um can i just say like ancient greece like all these different destinations i have to say the entertainment in ancient greece i reckon is up there it's decent that is a good shout actually bizarrely modern yeah I've

been to the theatre of Dionysus which I think they say is the the world's first theatre I've seen that and it's actually like this is quite nice this is like better than some theatres I've been to now yeah yeah like it's a lovely setting I've performed at the Bristol Old Vic which is the oldest continually operating theatre in the English-speaking world. So it was built between 1764 and 1766. And now, obviously, it's a theatre and you can buy revels and a Kit Kat, do you think? At some point, they will have introduced the Kit Kat

to the Bristol Old Week. Just to check, you're saying it would have been the same time as everyone else in the UK was exposed to the Kit Kat. They didn't trial it there. Take a break in the interval. Have a Kit Kat. God, these people need some confectionery in the middle of this play.

But you talk about old theatres, Ellis. There's one thing about these theatres, which obviously, as a performer, stresses me out. Obviously, completely without a mic. It was ancient Greece, so you were just having to yell. See, these are big theatres. The thoughts on that? What are your thoughts on that? Do you know what I would say, though?

If you perform at, especially like the old Mutschum theatres, at those old theatres, you can do, even if they're massive, you can do the soundcheck without a mic because acoustically they are incredible. And then you go to a modern art centre theatre that was built in 1977. And even if you've got a mic, it sounds shit. So it's just I've not been to the theatres in Greece, the ones that still exist, like Chris has. But it is extraordinary, the acoustics, in an old Victorian theatre.

It might be that you project better than I do, though. I once did a corporate in an Indian restaurant, and someone ordered a sizzling plate of chicken that was louder than me. I remember it coming across, and it was distracting, and I had to repeat my line. People just couldn't hear me over this sizzling chicken. So maybe you project better than I do. No, you've got a sort of, maybe you project that. No, I would say, in fact, the opposite is true.

And yes, it's damaging our relationship to the extent that probably every day I make passive-aggressive marks to Izzy saying that she needs to get her ears tested because I'm humble and she's a bit deaf. And that really is a match made in hell. So what's the answer there? Well, the answer, I think, is that she gets a hearing aid

or an ear trumpet like Winston Churchill. But whenever I see a picture of someone with an ear trumpet, I'm like, surely we could have come up with something better than that. Yeah, even then, it's unbignified. But yeah, they would have been projecting big time in greece so these theaters comedic festivals came around so most notably a festival called which came each year in athens okay and in around 426 bc um a writer called aristophanes who many people think is the grandfather of comedy

started to perform his plays and these plays were so groundbreaking there was a massive change because they celebrated ordinary people they mocked politicians generals and intellectuals and these are the same people that would have been sat in the front row so in his plays he was taking the piss out of the most powerful people who were all sat in the front row. It was a huge change in satire and what theatre meant at this point. I mean, the bravery of doing that is incredible. So what you're saying is the ancient Greeks came up with the last leg. That's it.

Have they seen a penny of that? Disgusting, isn't it? Now, when Aristophanes was performing these plays uh or having these plays performed for him more to the point um there's a few things i think you'll probably be grateful you don't have to do now as a stand-up um the outfits for a start performers will perform in a huge mask a short tunic and between their legs they would always have a huge fake phallus dangling around. Now, would you be as drawn

to stand up if that was the outfit everyone had to wear? More drawn, if anything. Does it for full of purpose? Well, a lot of the humour was quite lewd. I tell you who would have cleared up. Roy Chubbybrow. Fake phallus

All those northern comedians Like Jethro Jethro's gone well He wasn't northern Well you know Anywhere outside of London I suppose it does slightly narrow the field Of the type of comedy you can do

You can't go sort of heartfelt storytelling You've got a massive fake dong Wangling around between your legs It's going to have to be boring Yeah Very difficult to talk about your mental health or easier in a much way so and they know they know that this was the outfit because a lot of uh greek pots at the time have images of people with the fake dongs on and that's the uh the thing they had i mean i've i think oh you think they're fake this was just what you've convinced yourself well that's totally

ridiculous no dong can ever be that scale they've just drawn fake ones on all these do you think with the ancient greeks like it's such a base humor and is that because they had the whole palette of comedy to work with and they've just the stuff that's dongs and like silly stuff is the most obvious things isn't it in the palette of comedy. Also, every now and then, there was a news story a few years ago, you know, and this crops up every now and then, that they'll think they've found the oldest written joke.

And inevitably, it's a fart joke or some sort of sex thing. It'll be some sort of innuendo or it'll be some sort of slightly dirty joke. And obviously comedy's changed. It's unrecognisable even from 50 years ago or 100 years ago. But there are certain things that people find funny. It's like my kids find farting and weeing and pooing absolutely hilarious.

Yeah. As has been the case since time immemorial. So I think when you're a gag writer... In ancient Greece. Yeah, and you're looking at your script and you're thinking, this page is a bit gag-light, actually. We haven't had a page three.

We're three scenes into this play and no one's farted yet. I need to chuck some fart jokes in. Well, even with my kids i rather lazily will often go for a fart joke to get a laugh from them and i know it's just perpetuating the issue yeah i will always go for it of course we any of these things it's a guaranteed laugh my son loves it i mean what an audience he would be for your inimitable brand of comedy tom now i think one of the reasons they went for this vulgar stuff is because it was a way of humiliating

those in power basically it was kind of capturing a humor of the people and it was a way of humiliating the people who were in the front row and that's what's so different to the tragedies that come before which were also kind of reverential it was about the great success of those with wealth and all this sort of stuff and now actually it was just reflecting the real people and kind of um and kicking up you're punching up what the phrase is um to those who were sat in the front row and one of the crucial things they did is they actually they broke the fourth wall that was a big thing so the characters would address the audience directly in the way that stand-ups do today. That's incredible.

And that's kind of one of the key ways. It's basically helped shape the idea of stand-up. If it wasn't for this type of comedic play where they spoke to the audience, stand-up probably wouldn't exist. This was the very beginning of that type of humour. Amazing, really. Someone said to me,

God, it's amazing that device in Fleabag where she talks to the camera. They're doing it in ancient Greece, mate. This is thousands of years old as a device. Yeah. Fleabag's very good, though, just to be clear. It's excellent. Not enough fart jokes for them to clear up in ancient Greece, I'll say that much.

Where was her phallus? But aside from fart jokes and all that sort of stuff, Greeks like to have a laugh in another way. Pythagoras, do you remember Pythagoras, do you know, remember Pythagoras, what he was famous for? Let's see, how good your GCSE maths are. Well, Pythagoras' theorem. Correct. He was triangle obsessed.

Yes, yeah. Of course, he loved triangles. He absolutely loved triangles. But he also spent some of his time devising ingenious practical jokes. That was his other big thing he did. Oh, my God, he sounds fucking tiresome. Yes, well, this really will. Imagine going to a party.

Do you know what? I liked Pythagoras until you said that. Imagine if Pythagoras has come at your party, and you're like, fuck it, he's going to just talk about triangles the entire time. And he goes, have I told you about my joke shop that I've just opened? Hello.

Go on, open that door. Open that door. There's a bucket of water. I can see it. You complete goon. We studied Pythagoras in year nine. I've known about Pythagoras since I was about 14. I liked him until 90 seconds ago,

and now I think he's a dick. Well, if you do, or if you did ever go to one of his parties, one thing you should never do is accept a drink from him because he designed a wine goblet that looked like a normal goblet, worked like a normal goblet,

unless you filled it over a certain point, at which point it decanted all the wine onto your lap. like a normal goblet worked like a normal goblet unless you filled it over a certain point at which point it decanted all the wine onto your lap what a twat that was his big invention he did triangle maths and the wanker cup basically just the the biggest sort of fuck you that you could do someone who bothered to come around to your house has probably brought that wine themselves and brought a nice bottle of wine. You said, oh, let's start with yours. They poured it into a cup and immediately it's just been scanted into your lap. And your lap is no doubt, you're wearing a white tunic as well,

because that's what everyone wore back then. So you can't even go back afterwards. You've got to go home and get some varnish on it. It's unbelievable. I can't believe that his theorem, we're still studying it at school 2,000 years later and he also invented

the wanker cup. They should say that before they teach you about, before we teach you about this theorem, we probably do need to give the context. This guy was a wanker. What's he going over there? and you think he's going to talk about theorems and then suddenly he's on all fours and sort of you're being pushed over him and all the sort of rubbish jokes have existed he's telling you about triangles you fall asleep

and then you wake up and he's put your hand in a lukewarm pint of water yeah yeah there's urine everywhere his other big one, he invented the one where he'd go to get something out of his pocket and then when his hand came out it would just be, he'd just be flipping the bird at you, you know that one. I've got something for you. Oh, what's that? That's one of the ones he does

after midnight when he's started to run out of ideas. So, it was satire from the stage, jokes um around his house the other big thing they loved was a joke in ancient greece now you mentioned ellis earlier they had a list of the oldest jokes the oldest surviving collection of jokes comes from ancient greece in a book called the philodios or or the Joker okay and this has been translated helpfully by a forward by Pythagoras but it's written in milks you can't read it

and this has been helpfully translated by a classics professor called Professor William Berg and I'm going to give you a few of these jokes and I want to tell you what you what you think of them okay here's the first joke from this uh ancient greek book a man is having a haircut and when the garrulous barber asks him how should i cut your hair the quick wit answers silently see i think that still holds up in a way obviously the wording isn't what you how you'd have it now but the idea of being asked how do you want to have your haircut in complete silence isn't a bad idea isn't it you know anyone who now. No. But the idea of being asked, how do you want to have your hair cut, in complete silence, isn't a bad idea. Anyone who's been to the hairdresser gets that.

Remarkably modern in terms of, in its reference points. What about this? A wife-hater is attending the burial of his wife, who has just died. When someone asks her, sorry, someone asks, who is it that rests in peace here? And he answers, me, now that I'm rid of her. I mean, that could be straight from any social club in 1980 yeah that is 1970 standard yeah yeah yeah that would have been on itv finally let's go with this one here um the others have been relatively highbrow compared to this a cook

with halitosis is frying a sausage but then he breathes on it so much that he transforms it into a turd i'm surprised i had halitosis they diagnosed that turn in a sauce i didn't know they had sausages no well putting a sausage into a turd is a sort of breathing on it i get that yes so this comedy in ancient greece its various form had a huge impact on the future of the art form it found its way into the medieval world and when surviving texts by greek writers aristophanes and meander were translated into arabic and then into latin from the 12th century a.d uh and then the persian poet ibn hindu compiled a volume of witty maxims taken from the ancient greek text so these are getting later and later and still this type of comedy is is being used and repeated um another author called ibn daniel in cairo in 1248 so this is so far after also drew inspiration from ancient greek comedies

when writing his plays and particularly drew inspiration from aristophanes and the structure of these plays and the breaking of the fourth wall and all these these kind of these tricks still kind of exist today and this has continued this sort of this people have used the form in the way that they write and they still do today and that's what's kind of amazing about it what I like about this Ibn Daniel guy in Cairo is that he trained as a doctor but found greater fame in Cairo as a writer of shadow puppet theatre. So he gave up being a doctor and did that instead. Like Harry Hill. Yeah, exactly. And Paul Sinner and Adam Kay.

Exactly. So, you know, people love the skills and the art of Greek comedy so much that they will forego five years of medical school training to move into puppet theatre work. And upset their parents. And upset their parents, exactly. I was thinking about that. idea of saying to your mum you're you're not going to be a doctor you're going to work in shadow puppet theater you're doing what shadow puppetry should be bigger than it is whenever i see that in an old like is it indiana jones or those old films

we see a bit of shadow puppetry you're you're like, this is actually really good. Yeah. But I never see it advertised. I've never seen it in the wild. I never see it when I'm on the train and there's advertising Western theatre shows. Shadow puppetry doesn't come up. And it's also a very democratic art form, isn't it? Everyone has access to shadows.

Shadow puppetry, it should be massive. Ellis, if Crane said to us, I'm quitting everything. I'm going to go into shadow puppetry It should be massive Ellis if Crane said to us I'm quitting everything I'm going to go into shadow puppetry I would be really excited I'd be like you have found a medium That is ready to be tapped And I'd be so excited about what you would do with it Also it'd be quite exciting

Like the lights go down And then there's like a tiny little spotlight And suddenly horror as you realise I've got a torch behind my bum and I'm wiggling it around and I haven't written a show and I'm hoping this is enough. Imagine.

It's a rabbit, another rabbit. Britain's got talent. And suddenly, it's clapping. Where's it coming from? Oh my God, it's coming from the judges' tables. Holden, standing ovation. Cowell, standing ovation. Walliams, standing ovation Cowell, standing ovation Walliams, standing ovation

This is it He's been doing the clubs for years We are going to stay in the ancient world I am going to be talking about comedy in ancient Egypt The ancient Egyptians were so obsessed with comedy that they elevated the comedian to the status of a god. Yes, please.

Oh, wow. Bested many different roles in Egyptian religion, whether it was the god of fertility or of childbirth or even of war, but it is their status as the god of humour and of comedy that matters here. It is their status as the god of humour and of comedy that matters here. So you'd think, you know, if there are gods of comedy or god of comedy, the jokes must be pretty good. Well, the Romans didn't think so. When they conquered Egypt, they got so fed up with laughter and jokes aimed at judges and poor decisions that they banned Egyptian lawyers from the court altogether.

One Roman poet even said that Egyptians are twisted and bitter people with a sense of humour. So clearly, in ancient Egypt, comedy and comedians, they were quite valued members of society. It was quite a valued thing, comedy. So, you know, you're probably wondering what passed for an ancient Egyptian joke. Yeah. Well, it seems that observational comedy,

particularly wry observations about the physical size of the great and the good, that was the mainstay of their humour. So today, you know, I mean, this still happens. I mean, I think certainly in alternative comedy, there's an enormous backlash against body shaming and things. But you still, like, obviously you're going back a while, but there was characters like um fat bastard in in austin powers and there's the comic book guy in the simpsons and

stuff but if you look on the walls of the ancient tombs of egypt those jokes haven't changed an enormous amount so fat people in that context were always the rich and the powerful but you know it's thousands of years ago so it's a bit like spitting image oh look at that guy let's pick something out of his character like the john major he looks dead the john major thing was incredible wasn't it it completely altered the way people saw the prime minister him just as this gray being eating peas with his wife was it douglas heard who had the ice cream on his head oh yeah that conservative cabinet That conservative cabinet of the kind of the early 90s, which is right, they were all just such characters. The ancient Egyptians would have torn them to shreds.

But Major, he became the pea guy, and he'd never mentioned peas. I didn't have a TV until I was 14, so this pea stuff is completely new to me. I was outside whittling in my garden I have no idea about this pea thing I feel I've missed out The rest of Britain, they were all laughing at John Major eating peas

It was absolutely massive In a way that I can't imagine comedy now having the same sort of impact So even on the walls in the hieroglyphics, they're doing images of people, physical jokes about people, are they? Wow.

In the temple of Hatshepsut, which is near Luxor, there's a relief. And so the king and queen of Punt, local rulers, who have come out to greet the Egyptians as they arrive. And this image is regarded

as a good indication of Egyptian observational comedy, a good example. So the king is shown as a skinny individual with narrow waist and weak arms, but his wife is of rather more substantial proportions. So, you know, academics have been studying this. They're thinking, is it a treatment of power a mocking of foreigners or is it just a funny quite simple little and large situation which they thought well that's funny let's let let's put that down in stone or is it social commentary is actually much more basic than that

because that's a really good point actually ellis you just you have to be confident in a joke to chisel it into a wall because that is going to be around forever so you have to really back yourself that no this is the punch line i'm going with because it's going to take me a day to write the punch line for a start and then it'll be for it there for eternity i've i've never been confident enough in anything to chisel it into a wall would you chisel some kind of self-deprecating thing afterwards which sort of slightly undercuts the joke and suggests you weren't really behind it in the first place? Yeah, this was a sort of Friday 5pm joke, really.

We all want to go to the pub. We've had enough. I like the idea that it's like... That could be like the way you would host a breakfast morning radio show in ancient Egypt. You'd just be chiselling stuff into the walls to read at a certain time of day. You'd have to do that every morning.

In the absence of FM radio, you would just chisel out your three-hour broadcast. If it didn't work, you'd be so depressed. Yeah. I chiselled that. I also imagine they kept the stuff

quite broad in a way that it would not age too badly. I hope it wasn't sort of too topical that you'd go back two weeks later and go, that's lost some of its residence now. A year later you go, I don't even remember who that was. This is absolutely fascinating to me because comedy obviously is meant to be zeitgeisty.

It's meant to reflect the time. And so, as a consequence, I think a lot of comedy can date quite badly. Different to other art forms, actually. And obviously, that's not true. And there'll be listeners to this podcast who are saying, yeah, well, I still love Fawlty Towers. I still love Blackadder. I still love Hancock's Half Hour, those things that are often 60 years old or whatever. The Goon Show. And that is true, of course it's true. But if you took, say, all of the comedy output from British television in 1977, so that would include a couple of classic shows, there'd probably be stuff like Porridge would be on and Fawlty Towers, as I mentioned already.

But a lot of it would be crap by today's standards. And the references would have dated. Like, I used to really love Not the Nine O'Clock News, but the thing with Not the Nine O'Clock News, it's unrepeatable because it's so based on the cabinet at the time. Just so few people would get the references. So they did make compilations of the sketches that weren't topical. And I had them on video when I was a student.

I found them really funny. But the stuff about Willie Whitelaw, I mean, it's just so unlikely. People are like, oh, I remember Willie Whitelaw. Yeah, in Thatcher's First Cabinet. Willie, this is a great routine about willie white law this is not gonna happen so yes so i think comedy obviously is it has to be quite zeitgeisty which is why it means more to some people than other art forms i think but then it does it does do it quite badly i'm imagining also a situation to go back to the hieroglyphics and chipping it into the

wall of when you first bring a crowd of people in to look at it and it doesn't get a laugh and it just says 20 egyptian members of the royal family completely straight-faced and you're like oh no i should have tested it i should have tested this in a smaller a smaller room beforehand in the temple of the overseer of the priests at uh thebes a panel shows an overseer and four porters were carrying jugs of wine to the storehouse when they get there they find the storehouse keepers falling asleep on the job make this discovery only after one of the porters is not loudly on the door. So soon everyone has got something to say. Now as a sort of set up, you think, well this is great, this is

basically an excuse or just an opportunity to get sort of six or seven punchlines in, right? Overseer, hurry up, it's getting hot out here in the sun. First porter, the load's getting heavy. Second porter, that's for damn sure. I don't think he's really adding enough, second porter. I don't think he's really adding enough, second porter.

I don't think he's a fully rounded character, to be honest. I don't think that works on his backstory. Fourth porter, the storekeeper is asleep. Third porter, he's just drunk on the wine. Storekeeper, no, no, no, no. I haven't been sleeping at all. Right, okay. Now, what does that mean?

Well, in a sense, it's an age-old skit On who does the real work around here And that's an ancient Topic for Joe On the laziness of those with cushy jobs And the boredom of being a watchman So it kind of, you have to unpick it a bit But you can see how it still

Works as humour to an extent Because those Labourers still exist and people still have easy jobs and all that kind of stuff. I mean, you would... At the heart of it, you think... You could probably get something quite funny out of that. It's just because it was written by someone 2,000 years ago.

It needs a little tidying up, I would say. If those jugs of wine were then decanted into Pythagoras' hilarious mug, then you'd get a cut. One thing I found really interesting is the use of anthropomorphic animals in place of humans, which is still immensely popular. People love that stuff. These often appeared on jars or another everyday pottery.

Animals play musical instruments. Cats and mice as substitutes for real real life armies. Dogs having a game of pool. The absolute classic. One of the greatest works of art. I'm going to buy one right now on Amazon. I think I need that in the house. My uncle had that in his house when I

was a kid. I didn't realise it was so famous. I think everyone had it at some point. And it's so mad as well. It's so mad that that artist happened across that scene as well. It's so crazy. If you think that's what's most mind-blowing. So, yeah, there are definitely...

Yeah, it's recognisable humour to people today. humour to people today. I'm going to talk about comedy in the Soviet Union. Now, obviously, authoritarian, totalitarian regime. Not a hot, not, and immediately doesn't strike me as the kind of place that would be a hotbed of comedy. And I think it's funny with those kind of regimes, when you look at, like, the Nazis and obviously Mussolini,

the baddies in the Second World War, essentially. It comes from the top, doesn't it? The leaders don't look like a laugh. No. You know, Stalin is not a laugh. And that kind of bleeds... I feel like that bleeds down into society. There was such risk associated,

especially with satire. And I just don't think I've got it in me to make jokes in a situation where I could end up dying for it. Oh, let me just explain that. Poking fun at the Soviet Union in the Soviet Union was an incredibly dangerous pastime. Article 58 of the Soviet Russian Penal Code put into law that anti-Soviet propaganda, of which anti-Soviet jokes very much counts, that could result in the death penalty. Fucking hell. Wow.

So these jokes I'm about to tell you, they could cost you your life, joking about the state and the system. You'd have to really think it was funny and worth it, wouldn't you? Yeah, yeah, yeah. If it doesn't get a laugh and then you're killed, what's that sort of... It didn't even get a laugh and then you're killed, what's that sort of... It didn't even get a laugh. So Soviet humour is built on the older tradition of Russian humour

with opponents of the Tsarist autocracy using very carefully chosen language to poke fun without creating a danger to themselves or to their audiences. So the whole time you're trying to you're just trying to construct a joke that will not get you into trouble it's a very fine line you're trying to weave something very intricate so you can make a joke without getting the facing the repercussions i'll give you an example that's incredible so this is from a popular joke from around the time of the 1905 revolution about the czar. A man was reported to have said, Nikolai's a moron, and so he was arrested by a policeman.

No, sir, he protested. I meant not our respected Tsar, but another Nikolai. The policeman replied, don't try to trick me. If you say moron, you are obviously revering to the Tsar. Oh, my God, I feel tense. That's a good gag. It is a good gag. I just feel tense. 11 a good gag. It is a good gag. I just feel tense.

118 years on. It is. But I think that, like, I'll read out a few of these jokes, but I think that's what makes them so brilliant. They're like, you can see it's right up to the line. Yeah. And then the way they're constructed

is quite intelligent in that you're probably not going to die because of it. Can I just say, I can safely say this now that I think we can assume the person who wrote that joke is now dead. Yeah. Okay, I think we can safely assume. I'm surprised that made it through.

I'm surprised that that was on the right side. And you're the Soviet censor. It's very clearly saying that the Tsar is an idiot. It's not like kind of couched in language could be something it's very much saying that Crane is shipping the joke teller off to the gulag straight away, isn't he? He's grassing up

he's on the phone with the Stasi Do you want some more? Have you ever seen Ronald Reagan? He claimed there's a fantastic YouTube video of Ronald Reagan telling all his Soviet jokes. He claimed to be a collector of Soviet jokes and this one I'd actually seen this one before this research youtube video of ronald reagan telling all his soviet jokes he claimed to be a collector of soviet jokes and this one i actually seen this one before this research i was even begun on my end

it's a favorite joke of ronald reagan about the soviet system and he says a man goes uh obviously in the soviet union you had to there's a lot long waiting times for almost any kind of service and especially a very few people were able to buy a car and when you did get a car it was a long wait so a man goes to the car dealership pays his money buys his car the car dealer says okay thanks very much come back in 10 years and the other guy says do i come back in the morning or the afternoon and the guy that who runs the automobile shop says uh well it's 10 years away what difference does it make if it's morning or afternoon and the guy who runs the automobile shop says, well, it's 10 years away. What difference does it make if it's morning or afternoon? And the guy says, well, the plumber's coming in the morning.

Very nice. Well, do you know what, though? That got a genuine laugh out of me. So, are they going to the gulag for that? No, I think that's okay. I think that is far enough away from the line that I'm letting that guy live. My thumb is pointing up.

The thing about the Soviet Union was like everyone knew the system was relatively absurd. And so, you know, here's another Soviet joke. You tell me we're going to the gulag for this. A judge walks out of his chambers laughing his head off. A colleague approaches him and asks why he is laughing. I just heard we're going to the gulag for this. A judge walks out of his chambers laughing his head off. A colleague approaches him and asks why he is laughing. I just heard the funniest joke in the world.

Well, go ahead, tell me, says the other judge. I can't. I just gave someone ten years for it. I can't believe my favourite kind of humour is Soviet humour. Absolutely the greatest joke writers. Do you think people ever said that when they were living through

the really tough times of the Soviet Union go this is awful we're not eating enough family members are being taken

off to the gulag but comedically what an exciting time it's a golden age it's a golden age they say a man

can't survive on banter alone but we're making a good go of it the bravery to write this system it's incredible isn't it the bravery to risk that and to have that faith in the power of satire as well is amazing isn't it really to believe that it can affect change and it can affect change i think it really it can be a incredibly destabilizing force it kind of it's power to people who have no power isn't it that's a way of doing that and also that this is word of mouth because none of this is getting broadcast have you got any others

these are absolutely brilliant yeah i've got loads man we're gonna keep going so um obviously in the stalin era stalin also uh he had similar asides made about him. Here comes one. It's the May Day Parade. An old man is holding a poster that reads, Thank you, Comrade Stalin, for my happy childhood. A party representative approaches the man and says, What's that?

Are you mocking the party? Everybody can see that you're an old man now. So when you were a child, Comrade Stalin wasn't even born. Exactly, said the old man. That's what I'm grateful for. It's good stuff. It's good stuff. You like it?

It's really good stuff. Well done, that guy. Whoever it was. The Moscow Fringe Festival would be a weird thing to go to, wouldn't it? Yeah. Pravda Joker the Fringe. With the name of the comedian and then RIP. So obviously people, I think what's really interesting is in the Soviet Union,

a lot of the people that were aware that they were being exposed to propaganda and aware that the Soviet system was beginning to behave, especially towards the end, in even ever more kind of absurd ways. And there were plenty of jokes about this. A friend visited the home of a cosmonaut and found only the children were plenty of jokes about this a friend visited the home of a cosmonaut and found only the children were there where are your parents asked the visitor will they be home soon dad's in space they replied he'll be home soon but mum's gone to the shop to buy butter we don't expect her back for a long time very nice but that is good stuff robust structurally it's got it's jabbing at uh those in power it's great

also there's there's a sense of the absurd you know that that that your your old man who's a cosmonaut's going to come back before your mum was given for but uh it's topical it's a reference we all get wow i'll finish'll finish with, I think, for everything I've read, the funniest but most dangerous joke ever played on the Soviet system by a composer, actually, Dmitry Shostakovich.

Yeah. I would say the most dangerous piece of musical banter in all of history. He attempted to troll the entire system. Basically, after the Soviet Union's victory against the Third Reich in 1945, Shostakovich was commissioned to produce a grandiose symphony to exalt the Soviet people. But instead, his Ninth Symphony set out to mock the Stalinist state,

and he therefore built in to this Ninth Symphony all manner of hilarious passages. There's a bit that sounds like the March of the Clowns. There's a bit, there's parts of it that just make you feel sick. And there's also an incredible bassoon solo that I'm going to play you a little bit now. I'll play you a little bit of this. And basically, this was played to all the Soviet,

it was like premiered in front of all the Soviet top brass. I'm kind of buzzing. Do you know what it sounds like? It sounds like a sort of pathetic moment in a 1930s or 40s Disney movie. But that's exactly what he wants it to sound like. Absolutely. And it must have been such a shock when it was performed for the first time. That's incredible. From what I've read, people didn't really know what to make of it.

Some people loved it. That's incredible. From what I've read, people didn't really know what to make of it. Some people loved it. But there's a story that Shostakovich saw the Soviet bigwigs tapping their feet to the clown march of the premiers and is thought to have known in that moment that he had them. And so eventually it was banned. They banned it in 1948.

There was a bit of a discussion about whether he was taking the piss and it was decided, yes, he was. And it was banned in 1948. It's the bravery of these people in general. Look, ancient Greece, standing on the stage and breaking the fourth wall and talking to these people in the front row who had all the power, basically.

Same with Russia here, or Soviet Union, more to the point. It's just the fearlessness of it, and as I say, the belief in the power of satire. It's amazing really. Would you do it? No. Well, I'd have been the party representative turning people off.

That's it for this week. Thank you so much for listening and you know what happens at the end of every single episode we do we get on our hands and knees we weep and we beg for a five-star rating and review if you can manage it on your podcast application of choice because it just helps us with a little thing called discoverability and it helps more people find the podcast that's all we're asking for at this point that's all all we want from you. If you wouldn't mind jumping on your podcast app, ye olde podcast app, chuck us a five-star rating review. If you've enjoyed it.

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