Oh What A Time... - Ep1: New Year Extra Part Specials

Episode Date: December 30, 2024

We’re off on our Christmas / New Year break at the minute so while we’re off being festive, please enjoy two of our special 4th parts that were available for subscribers last year. In this ep you’ll hear bonus parts from:#20 The Coast#21 The Great DepressionAnd pop it in your diary: we’ll be back with some brand new OWAT on Monday 13th January 2025!If you fancy a bunch of OWAT content you’ve never heard before (including ALL the 4th parts from last year), why not treat yourself and become an Oh What A Time: FULL TIMER?Up for grabs is:- two bonus episodes every month!- ad-free listening- episodes a week ahead of everyone else- And much moreSubscriptions are available via AnotherSlice and Wondery +. For all the links head to: ohwhatatime.comYou can also follow us on: X (formerly Twitter) at @ohwhatatimepodAnd Instagram at @ohwhatatimepodAaannnd if you like it, why not drop us a review in your podcast app of choice?Thank you to Dan Evans for the artwork (idrawforfood.co.uk).Happy New Year to all our listeners!Chris, Elis and Tom xSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Wanderi Plus subscribers can listen to episodes of Oh What A Time early and ad free. Join Wanderi Plus in the Wanderi app or on Apple podcasts. Hello and welcome to Oh What A Time. We are on our Christmas slash New Year break at the moment, but to keep things on your feed for you, we're delighted to bring you some extra fourth parts that have never been heard before on the main feed. If you want access to all of these fourth parts, plus bonus episodes every month,

you can become an Oh What A Time full-timer. For all the links, you need to go to owhatatime.com. But extra special episode today, we've got two fourth parts for you one from the coast episode 20 and the Great Depression episode 21 and we'll have a couple more for you tomorrow and a couple more next Monday and the following Tuesday before we return for more brand new Oh What A Time on Monday the 13th of January. So here we go. Two extra fourth parts for you that have never been heard before on the main feed,

the coast and the Great Depression. Let's begin with the coast. Here to present the first four-parter. It's only bloody Tom Crane, isn't it? It is, yeah, as I live and breathe. Literally as I live and breathe. So I am going to talk to you in this special fourth part for very, very special people who've subscribed about the Coast Guard and the growth of the Coast Guard here in the UK. Now… What, the fifth emergency service after the AA?

After the AA. Exactly. Sorry, as a reference to, I would say, an ill thought out advertising campaign from the 1990s there. Correct. Where the AA said, with the fourth emergency service and the course card quite justifiably went, excuse me, do you remember us? Hello?

I'm going to ask a question. I think it's unlikely, but have either of you ever been rescued at sea or have you ever had a situation where you've had to be pulled out of a body of water and it's been distressing? No, but I did go out on a pedalo a couple of summers ago in Spain and I just went too far out and I shat myself. Did you? I just had to come back in here. You know when you got your back to the shore and I was just pedaling away and then I looked out into the side and I was like, oh, there's quite a lot like Jenny Fisherman. Have you had an argument with your wife? Stop going.

That's actually my brother-in-law. Was it? Really? It was genuinely an argument? No, not having an argument. No. We were just peddling. We were like, I wonder how far we can go out. And then we were like, oh, we've been peddling quite a while. Turned around, looked behind us and were like, oh, wow, we've actually like, we've gone quite far. Oh my God, we're in the middle of the Atlantic. It's actually faster at this point to carry on towards America. Huge cargo ships passing here.

We'll just make a full go when we get to America. Chris, I mean this with love. You have a very 1980s attitude to almost everything. It's the kind of thing that dads used to do about 40 years ago. Yep. Absolutely. Then when I went back to the beach, started digging a big hole. Yeah. Classic. Great day. Found some sea coal. And now that's...

Now I'm a billionaire. Now I'm a billionaire. So, for some reason, as people in the UK will know, the Coast Guard doesn't have quite the same romance attached to it here as the police, the Coast Guard doesn't have quite the same romance attached to it here as the police, the ambulance or the fire brigade. Oh no, I disagree with that. There's way more, right? It's the most romantic emergency service.

But it's not the ones that people leap to when they're a child pretending to play. It's police, ambulance, fire brigade. Those are the costumes. Those are the childhood games. It could be argued that the reason for this was the costumes, those are the childhood games. It could be argued the reason for this was the way that the Coast Guard came about. So the Coast Guard here was formed in January 1822. And the Coast Guard initially absorbed three earlier organizations, two of which dated

from the 17th century, which were the revenue cruisers and the riding officers, and the third from 1809, who were the preventative water guard. But the crucial thing is these initial organizations, they were not about saving lives. They were established purely to fight against smuggling and piracy. So the revenue cruisers, as the name suggests, they operated at sea and they were intended to intercept smuggling operations. The riding officers, they were on land, often on horseback. They provided a second line of defense in case stuff made it through. Finally, the preventative water guard fought against smugglers up and down the rivers and canals that had been built in the 18th century. The fight against smuggling basically occupied

all of the Coast Guard's early work. That's what it was. To meet the spiraling costs of defeating Napoleon, this is the reason this was happening, all manner of taxes in Britain were imposed on consumer goods, including sugar, alcohol, grain, and crucially, and this is the one I like most, tea. Tea was a big one, which I like because it's just so British. Tea was the big thing that was being taxed.

Tea had an enormous impact though on the working classes in particular, because the caffeine meant to stop people getting hungry, it allowed you to work for longer. It was a treat, it was nice. You could put sugar in it, which would give you an energy boost as well. The history of tea in Britain is a genuinely interesting thing to read about. It's so associated with Britain, do you know what I mean? When you see American stereotypes of what British people like, a cup of tea is like the international consciousness.

That's all we do. And then when you come and it's actually true. Do you remember that episode of A Bead was About where they had an alien land in the woman's garden? It was brilliant. Beadlesabout was a prank show in the 80s. Yeah, 80s and 90s, a British prank show. For American listeners, a British prank show. Very popular as well.

Enormous. It was hugely popular. Enormous. And so they did this one prank where for this woman, they convinced her that an alien spaceship had landed in her garden and then an alien emerged from it. Basically within the prank, they're winding her up like, it wants to talk to you, say something. The woman said, would you like a cup of tea? Perfect. something and the woman said, would you like a cup of tea?

I want to know, did it accept? I'm genuinely intrigued. Did the alien take the cup of tea? Can you think of more British things that the government could have been taxing during this period of history? I've come up with the full English breakfast would be a good thing for tax. Emotional repression. Yeah. Saying you like a haircut at the end of a haircut, the hairdressers, when you don't really like it. That's one of the big British things. You could tax that. At that moment we go, yeah, yeah, yeah. of a haircut, the hairdressers when you don't really like it. That's one of the big British things.

You could tax that. That moment we go, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, it's fine. I don't need to see the back. It's fine. Out you go. On goes the baseball cap. Asking a taxi driver if he's been busy. Yeah. When you're visiting friends and you want to go and you go, right? Yeah. And then you slap your thumbs. So they were attacking these things, sugar, alcohol, grain and tea, but they were still

making it into the country. And the Coast Guard mission was to stop this. And it was a mission that was not entirely welcomed by the general population. As one MP claimed in 1824, here's a quote, whenever a ship so laden with smuggle goods appeared off the coast, the whole of the peasantry were ready to assist in landing and secreting her cargo, confident they were to be well paid for the risks they ran. So basically the smuggling ships, the cutters, the small boats would appear and all the village would go, yay! And they basically appear and help. Everyone would just run down because they knew they'd get some money if they helped sort of hide this contraband. So do you think you'd, are you the sort of people that would have joined in in the, in the illegal activities or do you think you're so law-abiding and

go, well, no, I actually think that's, it's important that things are tacked. Certainly as a kid, I was honest to the point of almost being like an illness. I remember seeing a £5 note next to my maths teacher's car and finding her in the playground and saying, I think you dropped this when I was about 12. And she… And she said, if you had two of these, how much would you have? Very good, Ellis. She was absolutely gobsmacked that I hadn't just kept it.

Was it hers? Well, I didn't even know. It was next to her car and I knew it was her car. So I assumed it was. And I thought, well, I can't have this because this isn't my money. But so yeah, I think I'd be the one at the back living in the shit house going, oh well, nevermind. Closing your curtains. Yeah, never else has got a load of good stuff,

but I'll make do with, I'll make do with gruel for tea again. Not to worry. So the villagers would rush down, they'd help as the Coast Guard were trying to work against this trade. And this was despite the fact that the Coast Guard were armed officers and were permitted to shoot at smugglers if necessary, with those caught likely to be thrown in jail or, and I love this as a punishment, it's just so mad, be transported to Australia, which I just find is hilarious when you think about it. You do something wrong and you're told we're going to send you to the other side of the world.

Yeah. A place that at this time in history you won't be able to get back from. Yeah, it would take weeks. It is mad, isn't it? And the journey would be hard and difficult and horrible and... You're probably thinking though, but how does this relate to what the Coast Guard is today, i.e. saving lives? Because none of this has anything to do with rescuing people at sea. Well, that is apart from one strand, which was the Preventative Water Guard, which is one of these little organisations,

did have a responsibility for assisting with shipwrecks. And it's from this one single thread that the humanitarian spirit of the Coast Guard grew. And by the mid 19th century, its importance in that regard was already being felt. For example, in 1872, in its 50th year, the service rescued almost 800 people and salvaged property valued at nearly £900,000 or £85 million

today. Wow. And 100 years later, in 1970, the Coast Guard was involved in rescuing more than 6,000 to 7,000 people a year from the seas around Britain. Would you like to guess what was blamed for those skyrocketing numbers in the 70s and the 1970s? Do you know what it was? Why did things kind of exponentially grow like that? Lylos?

Correct, the rise in recreational activity like dinghies, lilos and other inflatable toys. You'd feel such a pillock wouldn't you? Absolutely. In a dinghy and having to call a, someone having to call a coast guard in a pre-mobile phone age. Oh, you'd feel such a dunce. I'm nervous getting onto a lilo in a swimming pool. I get funny about the idea of leaping onto a lilo and flipping under. And also being on any kind of inflatable on the sea, the idea that could be anything below me freaks me out. So I just don't have that part of my mind that I would lie on one of these things

and let myself float around on the currents. Not my scene. Maybe Chris would, I don't know. You went out on your own. Oh, Chris would. Maybe this is your bag. We're probably about a year away from you being rescued by a piano fairy in the English Channel.

You're riding an inflatable unicorn. Do you know what? I think Coast Guard is one of the jobs I would absolutely hate because, you know, as a Coast Guard, you're having to go out into storms a lot. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Absolutely. Yeah, yeah. Dangerous, yeah.

It's so dangerous. And the boats, you see the footage of the boats will hit the waves and like leap. The front end of the boats will fly up into the air and they'll crash down again. It's like, it's brutal. Also, I imagine as a Coast Guard, you're going out into storms to save people who've been a bit stupid. You're risking your life for people who've been a bit of a Wally. Hard to be patient. The amount of Wally management you'd have to do is, of course, God.

Is there a thing, if you are caught in a current, you're basically supposed to just go with it. Which I don't know. I'm not sure if I have that common sense at that point to go. Do you know what? I'm just going to enjoy this. I'm just going to see where this takes me. I've always wanted to see the coast of Dorset. Well, fear reduces your IQ.

Is that true? 15% I heard. Yeah. Wow. So imagine that you've been caught in a current, it makes you thick because you're terrified. Also, you're terrified, so you're going to get pumped full of adrenaline. You're going to panic, panic, panic and knack yourself. Yep. Absolutely. I'm not relaxing. I'm swimming against that current for one and a half minutes

and then it's over. That's absolutely what's happening. Anyway, during that period... It's over. These things are the depths. Good night. During that period of growth, other organisations sprung up. The RNLI, which is the Royal National Lifeboat Institution, were founded in 1824 as the National Institution for the Preservation of Life from Shipwreck and also the Independent Volunteer Life Brigades, such as the Tynemouth Volunteer Life Brigade, founded in 1864. Different organisations all came to rely on each other to fulfil their functions and an

emergency service. A collectivism, which was at last recognised by the British government in the 1920s when the Coast Guard was officially recognised and search and rescue operations were given greater emphasis in the organisation's duties. So it was only in the 1920s that it was properly given the green light for this to be the thing they do,

for this to be this sort of group that whose job it was to preserve life at sea. And it was from that point that the Coast Guard green light for this to be the thing they do, for this to be this sort of group whose job it was to preserve life at sea. And it was from that point that the Coast Guard has steadily developed as the fourth emergency service and was even included as one of the emergency service options when 999 was first launched in June 1937 in London. I don't know why the Coast Guard's being in London. How useful is that?

How often has the Coast Guard been called from central London? You could fall into the Thames, couldn't you? We've got the Thames, I suppose. You could fall into Thames. That is true, yeah, yeah, absolutely. Before it got rolled out elsewhere in the country from there. So that's the growth of it.

They all had rotary phones back then, didn't they, in 1937? I'm just thinking about the idea of ringing 999. I always find this quite hard. I'd constantly be getting it wrong. I find it quite hard to use those phones. It doesn't feel quick enough, does it? Eight, yeah. I'm sorry, I am trying.

I genuinely am. There we are. So that is the Coast Guard, the growth of the Coast Guard. It came all from smuggling, all from that and onward. Brilliant. We, smuggling, if you studied history at school, such a big part of British life over the last sort of thousand years. Huge. Absolutely.

We should do a smuggling episode, I think. It is a fascinating period of history, absolutely, especially in terms of the local communities relationship with it and how involved they were in it, how involved just everyday people were in making sure that this crime could continue. Like little doors that link between houses and these small sort of coastal villages. You can still see today where they sort of ferry stuff up and down the street so that they couldn't be found. It's just a fascinating period. We will do a special on that. There we go. That is the first bonus bit of history on the show.

And if you've heard this bit, we like you and full-timers, welcome to the fourth part in this episode. Hi! The inn crowd. Our favourite people. Yeah. The gang. I'm in with the Inn Crowd. I know what the Inn Crowd know. I'm in with the Inn Crowd. I go where the Inn Crowd go. Very nice Al. That's what I always think of when I think of the Inn Crowd. Yeah. What a tune that is. That was lovely. Hi guys, thank you very much for still being here and thank you for subscribing

because if you're listening to this you have. You're an absolute legend. It's amazing. Yes, thank you very much. Welcome to the best part of this episode just because you're here. So I'm going to talk to you about F. Scott Fitzgerald and the great Gatsby, which I was forced to study in school, but I do actually quite like and enjoy. Did you have to study this at school, guys? I've got a quite interesting relationship with the great Gatsby. I... Tried to emulate him in every aspect of your life.

No, I did English lit A-level and was given a list of the 100 greatest novels of the 20th century, and it was on there, but I was pulled off it by a socialist teacher I was hanging out with at the time. It was like, oh, it's just about new money and old money and it's about rich people and I didn't think I'd like it. And as an 18 year old, I didn't really like it. And then I read it about five years ago and had a completely different relationship with it and loved it. Mason- Interesting. Toby- So I'm interesting to see what you've got to say because I I thought it was fantastic the second time around, but I was much older,

which I think is quite important. I'm looking forward to talking about this. So I should explain what the book's about. F. Scott Fitzgerald's Roaring Tale of the Great Gatsby. In it we're thrown into the glitz and glam of the 1920s. Jay Gatsby is a mysterious millionaire with a knack for throwing extravagant parties, has a love for Daisy Buchanan that's as big as his mansion, but Daisy is married to the dapper but somewhat clueless Tom Buchanan, who is collecting mistresses like it's a hobby. Gatsby is determined to win Daisy back, going to great lengths like buying a mansion across the lake from Daisy.

It's relatable. It's relatable stuff. We've all done it. Yeah. We've all done it. Amidst the drama, Nick Carraway, our ever watching narrator, is like the bemused friend trying to figure out why everyone is so obsessed with green lights and fancy cars. And spoiler alert, things do not go well. So the great Gatsby delves into various themes that reflect the complexities of human nature and the society

during the jazz age. One of the themes is the American dream and F. Scott's Fitzgerald's disillusionment with the American dream. Gatsby embodies the idea of achieving success and wealth to win back his lost love Daisy. However, the novel portrays his pursuit as often futile, highlighting the emptiness and moral decay underlying the dream. And then also as Ellis touched on there, wealth and class. So Fitzgerald scrutinizes the divide between old money and new money and how wealth influences social standing and access to power. So these themes kind of intertwine throughout the narrative. They posit a vivid picture of a society grappling with shifting values, shattered dreams, and

the consequences of unrestrained ambition. Very much the story of the 20s. But did you know that the Great Gatsby is an almost autobiographical work? No way. I didn't really know this until I kind of looked into it for this podcast. F. Scott's Fitzgerald's life is a tale of a meteoric success shadowed by kind of personal struggles. He was born in 1896 in St. Paul, Minnesota, and Fitzgerald displayed he was a brilliant writer

almost from the outset at a very young age. He went to Princeton University in his sophomore year. He met Genevra, often called Ginny, when he was a young aspiring writer and she was an affluent and popular debutante from a wealthy Chicago family. I've always found that term debutante interesting, isn't it? Does it not mean a really young, wealthy bachelor kind of on the scene? I'll tell you what it means. If you describe yourself as a debutante, I will have nothing to say to you. Yeah. But you wouldn't describe yourself as a debutante, would you? Okay. Well, if someone says, oh, that person over there, they're a debutante, I'd be like, right, well, is there anyone who likes football?

Am I right in thinking a debutante basically, you're introduced into society at a point when you're 18 or something like that? How do you think you'd have done without Ellis at, let's's say a ball. It's your 18th birthday. No, it's O'Neill's. It's your 18th birthday. The music scratches to a halt. And everyone turns to the door. The MC goes, we've got a debutante. And here comes a debutante, Ellis James. Yeah, it's an upper-class young woman making her first appearance in Fashionable Society. Now, if I was 18, A, the acne is going to affect my confidence. I mean, oh my god. I can't think of anything worse, actually.

What's that shit Netflix show that my wife watches that's about, like, modern society and debutantes and... Oh, I don't know. They're all at, oh, it's cause it's something town. It's quite a hard question for us, Chris, to be honest. We don't have the same access to information as you do. It's called... Oh, God.

It's high society. Is that what it's called? No. Netflix. I'm just kidding. There is a program called the debutantes. No. Oh, no. I think that's something very, very different.

Bridgerton. Oh right, okay. Bridgerton is all about that, isn't it? Debutantes. Like, who's going to get it? It's like Love Island. But for very posh people. But in the 19th century for posh people. Yeah. You say that your acne would have sort of taken some of your confidence away at that point.

What are the rules on sort of asking to delay your debut for a bit? What? Until he clears up? Yeah, as you can see, I don't think I'm quite ready for first team action. Yeah. Can I wait until I'm 21 or 22 or something like that? Yeah. So I'd be like, listen, add a word to my GP. To be honest, his outlook was quite bleak. He's... He suggested this stuff, which is like a kind of roll-on. I gave it a try yesterday,

but it really dries my skin out. He said I might have acne for the next five years. So don't know, if I'm honest, don't know. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Will Barron So F. Scott Fitzgerald falls in love with Geneva. She's like I say, she's from a wealthy Chicago family. Their romance blossomed during a time when Fitzgerald was still finding his place in the world. Like I say, sophomore at Princeton University. Interesting fact about Geneva, she studied at Westover, a Connecticut women's school, until she was expelled for flirting with a crowd of boys from her dormitory window. How does that work? That's unbelievable.

But showing a bit of leg from a dormitory window? Flirting with a crowd? How good at flirting are you? Are you flirting with the individuals one by one? Sort of going quickly flitting around them like crowd work at the comedy store? Or is it more sort of yelling out to the group? Greg- You're nice, you're nice, you're all nice. Mason- I mean, I don't know what a debutante's debut might look like, but that sounds like it's gone very well. Greg- Yeah.

Mason- If you're flirting with a crowd. debutante's debut might look like, but that sounds like it's gone very well. Yeah. If you're flirting with a crowd. We should say as well, I know that the vast majority of our listeners are from the UK. Sophomore is a second year student. Oh yes, good point. So freshman I think is first year. Yes. I don't actually know what the third one is.

What's the third one? No, I don't know either. But she was expelled from university for this? Yes, expelled. At least it's quite a cool thing to tell people when people say, why did you drop out of uni? Okay, if I have to tell you, I was caught flirting with a full crowd of people. It's quite impressive.

Oh, freshman is the first year, sophomore is your second year, junior year is your third year, and then senior year is your fourth year. Which is quite... I had no idea. Anyway. Also, you must be quite attractive if an entire crowd wants to flirt with you. Yeah. I've never had a situation where I've walked past a mass of people

and they've all turned around at once and gone, that guy, and they've all started sort of flirting. Yeah. And because it's the 20s, no one would have described her as fit. Yeah. Everyone's like, oh, she's magnified. Oh my dilly day. Oh wow. Oh my. Oh, musty. Spinning their canes, throwing their hats in the air. That sort of stuff. Ginevra's headmistress described her as a bold, bad hussy and an adventurous. Wow.

Wow. Was that bold as in confident or bold as in completely hairless? If anyone could have seen what was happening with that dormitory window. No, I didn't mean it like that Chris. Just to be absolutely clear. So F. Scott Fitzger's and Ginevra's relationship was super intense from everything you read, but really short-lived. It was due to the socioeconomic differences between them. Ginevra's family disapproved of Fitzgerald's lower social status and his lack of wealth,

leading to the eventual end of their romantic involvement. Ginevra's father reportedly said to the young Fitzgerald, Poor boys shouldn't think of marrying rich girls. Wow. To say this stuck in Fitzgerald's craw I think would be an understatement. You can already see the seeds of why he wrote The Great Gatsby here. He actually, after him and Ginevra split up, Fitzgerald enlisted in the US Army in mid World War I and he literally hoped to die on the Western Front. He was feeling suicidal over that breakup.

Oh wow. He survived obviously, became one of the great writers of the Jazz Age, a term he himself popularised. Oh wow. And he described the era as racing along under its own power, served by great filling stations full of money. That's a lovely sentence. What a line.

He should be a writer. Oh wait, he was. Yeah, yeah. God, it's better than some of Tom's Ed Miliband stuff. But I was having to write that under the pressure. Yeah, yeah, very quickly. I was having to respond to the news like that. He's got weeks to work out that sentence. He became the toast of the town in New York. Everyone wanted a piece of him.

He adopted many kind of celebrity mates, including many comedians who like himself were nouveau riche and became successful through their own efforts, not necessarily family money. He became friends with the comedian Ed Wynn, who you might remember as the Mad Hatter in Alice in Wonderland. And Uncle Albert in Mary Poppins. Not in Oldenfus and Orson. He became friends with Buster Merrifield. Robert and Mary Poppins. Not in Oldingfields and Orsett. You became friends with Buster Merrifield. He's older than I realise.

Yes. So in 1924, he began writing his magnum opus, The Great Gatsby, and Ginevra King served as the inspiration for several of Fitzgerald's female characters, most notably Daisy Buchanan in The Great Gatsby. Daisy, like Ginevra, represented an idealised woman from a wealthy background who captured the protagonist's heart, but remained somewhat out of reach due to societal barriers. Fitzgerald's infatuation with Geneva and the subsequent heartbreak became a driving force behind his exploration of unattainable love

and the disillusionment with the American dream, themes that are central to the great Gatsby. And obviously, F. Scott Fitzgerald, like some of the characters in the book, he became wealthy himself, but he always felt there was a bit of a divide. Some of the perspectives of people who have read The Great Gatsby present this idea of class permanence that F. Scott Fitzgerald himself felt, which is this idea that class transcends wealth in America. And even if the poorer Americans become rich, they remain inferior to those Americans with old money.

Interesting. And there's that latter group in his life that F. Scott Fitzgerald would later despise. He had a tough life, F. Scott Fitzgerald. He descended into poverty and alcoholism in later life. His wife, who eventually married, was diagnosed with schizophrenia. He had an affair with, this is a horrible thing, he had an affair with the gossip columnist Sheila Graham, who had read none of his books. On learning this, he went to a bookstore

to buy her some of his books, but when he got there, he discovered they had stopped selling his works. Oh my God. In his lifetime, he was not appreciated. He died in 1940 at the age of 44 of a heart attack, having just got sober in the last year of his life. I had no idea.

And when he died, he thought that his life had been a failure. Oh, that's awful. But by the 21st century, the great Scatsby has sold millions of copies as required reading in many schools, including mine. And a quote from Professor John Huell of New York University. If you want to know about Spain, you read Hemingway's The Sun Also Rises. If you want to know about the South you read Faulkner. If you want to know what America is like you read The Great Gatsby. Wow.

Incredible. Fitzgerald is the quintessential American writer, but not appreciated in his own lifetime. The thing with The Great Gatsby is, my friend John Robbins is, adores that novel. When I realized that it's about regret, because Gatsby is absolutely haunted by his past, as soon as you get old enough to really regret stuff, I think you interpret that novel in a different way. Yeah. So I would, I would really recommend reading it, especially for this

stuff about your life you change. Not that for this stuff about your life you'd change. Not that there's anything about my life I'd change. I'm obviously delighted with all of it. Apart from, Wales almost certainly failing to qualify for Euro 2024. But that's not my fault. There's a couple of refereeing decisions in there and a couple of little bit of tactical ineptitude. But again, it is something I'm going to regret on my deathbed.

Will Barron Can I ask about like, he was seen in the years after the jazz age as like quite a material, like he championed this materialistic-ness of the jazz age and his work, that's one of the reasons why people posit that his work's going to fell out of favour. But I don't think he really champions this. I think he finds it quite vacuous and he makes that clear. Mason Hickman That's exactly what I was going to say. I mean, it's been a while since I've read it, but I thought he was quite critical and yeah, just said he was quite vapid. Yeah. And also I think it's a misreading of the whole thing. It's like reading Animal

Farm by George Orwell and going, well a farm's nothing like this. I have never met a talking animal so I don't understand. A horse is quite hardworking and I think everything is fine. ["Jingle Bells"] That's it for this episode today. Just a reminder, we are on our Christmas slash New Year break and we'll be back on Monday the 13th of January with more brand new Oh What A Time. But don't forget, if you want brand new episodes

of Oh What A Time that you've never heard before, two bonus episodes every month, you can become an Oh What A Time full-timer. For all the links, go to owhatatime.com. Otherwise, I'll see you again very soon. Bye. Follow Oh What A Time on the Wondry app, Amazon Music or wherever you get your podcasts. And you can listen early and ad free right now by joining Wondry Plus in the Wondry app or on Apple podcasts. And before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short survey at Wondry.com

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