Ologies with Alie Ward - Blattodeology (YES, COCKROACHES) with Dominic Evangelista

Episode Date: October 15, 2025

Dazzling colors. Remote habitats. Gentle parenting. Fantastic genitalia. And yeah, swimming through sewers to surprise you. It’s cockroaches and I promise you will find something to love about them in this chat with cockroach evangelist and Blattodeologist Dr. Dominic Evangelista. Which are the prettiest? Are roaches better at raising kids than you? How do roach scientists feel about the ones in kitchens? How does one catch a cockroach in a dark rainforest? Can roaches pull a Ratatouille and steal our hearts with a casserole? Dominic explains it all. I swear they can be lovable, OKAY?Visit Dr. Evangelista’s Roach Brain Lab and follow him on iNaturalist and Google ScholarA donation went to Teach for America and Entomologists of ColorMore episode sources and linksOther episodes you may enjoy: Spooktober: Topics to Startle and Love, Entomology (INSECTS), Mantodeology (PRAYING MANTISES), Odonatology (DRAGONFLIES), Discard Anthropology (GARBAGE), Forest Entomology (CREEPY CRAWLIES), Disgustology (REPULSION TO GROSS STUFF), Fearology (FEAR), Entomophagy Anthropology (EATING BUGS), Speleology (CAVES)400+ Ologies episodes sorted by topicSmologies (short, classroom-safe) episodesSponsors of OlogiesTranscripts and bleeped episodesBecome a patron of Ologies for as little as a buck a monthOlogiesMerch.com has hats, shirts, hoodies, totes!Follow Ologies on Instagram and BlueskyFollow Alie Ward on Instagram and TikTokEditing by Mercedes Maitland of Maitland Audio Productions and Jake ChaffeeManaging Director: Susan HaleScheduling Producer: Noel DilworthTranscripts by Aveline Malek Website by Kelly R. DwyerTheme song by Nick Thorburn Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Oh, hey. It's the smell of fresh paint in your new apartment. Allie Ward, don't you dare leave. Don't you leave. I'm holding your hand, maybe a little too firmly for you to get away. I'm urging you to be strong. Let's learn about cockroaches. First of all, it's spooktober. All right. Secondly, there's so much to love. Is there sort of? Find out with me, a person who, until this interview, knew of very few redeeming qualities of a roach, but now I would have a chat with one. If it's worked that way. Now, this expert was recommended to me by another ologist who I adore, and when I told her I needed a cockroach person, she instantly named them. They are an entomology assistant professor at the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign. They run a cockroach lab. This guest studied biology for undergrad and ecology and evolution for their PhD, and we'll talk to them about what is a cockroach and why they are not quite what you think they are. But first, just a quick thanks to patrons of the show who submit questions for the ologist ahead of time. Thanks to everyone wearing ologiesmerch from ologiesmerch.com. And thanks to everyone

who leaves reviews, which helped the show so much, such as this crisp new one from Not Abby, who wrote a poem review. I know nothing, but then I listen to Ologies. Now I know a little something. Ain't that great. Not Abby, that's me snapping my fingers in an appreciative way. Also, if anyone needs shorter kid-friendly episodes for their children or classroom safe, we have Smologies, S-M-O-L-O-G-I-E-S, wherever you get your podcasts. There's a separate feed you can subscribe to. Okay, so first off, the term cockroach comes from the Spanish, Cougaracha, which stems from Cucca for a caterpillar. But in Latin, the word Blada means that which shuns the light. So let's shed some light on these low-profile, skittish little critters.

Let's learn about their bonkers' dicks, their preferred diets, ones that look like emeralds and candy corn, how to catch a rainforest cockroach if you want to. They're stunning diversity, why we need cockroaches in the wild, at least, but also how to get them out of your house, how they got there in the first place, and some behavioral aspects that will make you wish you had one as a pal, maybe a pet, with entomologist, assistant professor, and professional platodialologist, Dr. Dominic Evangelista. My name is Dominic Evangelista, and I use he-him pronouns. Bluetiologist, would we say?

Yeah, I registered the email, Blethodiology at gmail.com, like 10 years ago, but I've never used it. Nice. Can people email you their thoughts and questions about cockroaches? No. You're like, don't. I know what most of them will be, so I don't want those questions, but sure. Are those questions, how do I get all these roaches out of my refrigerator? Yes, pretty much.

That's like 70% of them. And there's only 10 species of cockroaches, really, that we cohabitate with, correct, out of thousands of species in the world? That's about right, yeah. I don't know, somewhere between 10 and 20, maybe. So the vast majority of cockroach species you will never come into contact with. They live out in the forests and the deserts and the grasslands of our planet, and they do not want to come into contact with them. Those like kind of 10 species that we might come across in our homes give a bad reputation to all of them.

Maybe we should just start with what even is a cockroach, because I think people probably think there's just the ones that they've seen on TV or maybe like in their dorm room. My sense is that when people hear the word cockroach, they have an image in their head of one, maybe two species, either periplanetta Americana, the American cockroach, or Letella German cockroach. By the way, those cockroaches are not originally from America or German. I've been here. Yeah. So, like, for periplanet Americana, that's like the Wally Roach. That's the big brown one that most people are probably familiar with. Pothelagamanica is the tiny little amber light-colored one with black stripes. Those are just two species. Cockroaches, we know of about 7,000 species of cockroaches.

There's probably like three times as many as that in the world. So 99.904% of cockroaches will never be in your toaster or your buildings boiler room. Their species, not interested. So where are they then? all those roaches that we never hear about? The vast majority of those are in tropical and subtropical latitudes. So tropical rainforests mostly. But there's also a lot of species in deserts and some species in temperate ecosystems as well.

There's also termites, which are subgrouped cockroaches. That's like a new rebrand, isn't it? Yeah, that's only within the last 20 years that it was somewhat official that termites are actually just fancy cockroaches. And yes, in 2007, the paper came out boldly announcing the death of an order. A comprehensive molecular phylogenic study confirms that termites are social cockroaches. And this study noted that our molecular analyses, the most comprehensive yet attempted, show that termites are social cockroaches no longer meriting being classified as a separate order from the cockroaches. Instead, we propose that they should be treated

as a family of cockroaches. And it continues with the backstory that termites, cockroaches, and mantids form a well-established lineage uniquely defined by having a preparation in essentially what is their skull and enclosing their eggs in a specialized case called an u-u-u-thika.

So yeah, you got termites? You got some wood-eating roaches. Congrats. Oh, fancy, fancy. But do other cockroaches live in that kind of social structure? Is that one thing that sets them apart from other types of cockroaches? Or do a lot of cockroaches have that division of labor?

So no, only termites are what we call use social. They only, only termites live in those highly organized societies with different casts and a queen and a king. Other cockroaches, they do have levels of sociality, but not to that highly advanced, organized level that termites do. So there are some cockroaches that we would call sub-social. There are cockroaches that are more solitary. And then there's everything in between. So there's lots of species that provide different levels of parental care, including some of them that have small colonies where maybe burrows in wood or in soil that are guarded by matriarch. And yes, a French 2009 study titled, The Weight of the Clan, even in insects, social isolation can induce a behavioral syndrome,

found that like some vertebrate organisms, German cockroaches reared among 10 siblings fared better in life than ones raised in complete solitude, which suffered from reduced appetites and less exploration of their surroundings. They were shy roaches, if you will, and they were bad at flirting. But roaches also take restaurant recommendations from each other. They prefer to have dinner companions when enjoying a food source before they all move on to enjoy another nearby snack. And this was evidenced in the 2010 paper collective foraging decision in gregarious insect. And yeah, they are great parents. Well, better than me, but that's because I don't have any children.

Yeah. So there's lots of different levels of sociality among cockroaches. What makes a cockroach then? Good question. So first, let's talk about what's not cockroaches. So praying mantises are the sister group to cockroaches. So they're the closest relatives to cockroaches. So what makes cockroaches different from praying mantises?

Cockroaches have a leathery egg case. So whereas mantises lay their eggs in this sort of like foamy egg case on plant matter, cockroaches create this like little leathery, looks like a purse that they stick their eggs into. So yeah, cockroaches make themselves. some nice handbags. They craft them with their genitals and they're stuffed to the zipper with their own children. And I picture cockroach moms birthing in UUthika like Miranda Priestley slamming a handbag on a desk in the Devil Wars Prada. These ladies are loathed, feared, but also respected and a city girl and cosmopolitan to the core. But out in the wild, of course, they are living

all kinds of varied lives. But still, they emerge into the world from mommy's vagina purse. So that's one defining feature of cockroaches. Another one is less obvious. They have this endosymbiotic bacteria that lives inside of their fat cells. And there's some other sort of less well-defined characters that you can use to identify a cockroach, like cockroaches are flat. They're kind of oval-shaped. They have a shield-like thing that covers their head. A lot of people think it is their head, but actually the head is underneath this shield-like thing at the front of their bodies. Oh.

So this is the dorsal sclerite of the pro thorax of an insect, but you can call it the pronotum if you're feeling casual. Also, if you are a person who likes, say, heavy metal and cockroaches, you might enjoy the death's head cockroach. which is an easy one to rear, and it has red and black markings on its pronotum. What if you got a roach pet? What if it was your new bestie? What if? I'm as someone who really loves bugs and has had a praying mantis pet, and I don't think I realize that about cockroaches, that they have an awning.

Yeah, they do. Yeah, an awning. It's a good way to put it. What are those little finger-like things that stick out from their butt, the sercy? Circe. I say Circe. Okay. Yeah, so Circe are pretty big in cockroaches. So these are the pointy things on their butts that look like two little tiny rump antenna, which can sense low vibrations or gusts of air. Evolutionary biologists think these appendages help them escape predators. I think most insects have them, but they're smaller and a lot of other insects. Whereas in cockroaches, they're quite large. As far as I know, they are sensory organs. and they may also produce or be involved in like pheromone or hormonal production. So yes, sensory organs. It's like you having a nose or eyes right on your heine.

We hate to see you leave, but you can smell us as you go. Can you about do that? I don't think so, baby. I feel like you're mentioning praying mantis, and if a praying mantis lands on your shoulder, it's like, ooh, good luck, you know. You see a cricket and you go, oh, cricket, get out of here. But they both look a little like cockroaches, but obviously we're just not used to interfacing with cockroaches in a way that is benign. But when they're out in the world, like when they're living in their actual usual habitat and they're not imported into cities and such, are they using that little flat body to scoot under bark?

They're hanging out and leaves, like other like burrowing habitats. Like why that flat, round body? Yeah, that's a great question. Thank you. So that's sort of like cockroach's superpower is hiding, escaping predators, or being in little nooks and crannies because that's where it's nice and moist and humid. So this is probably something that they inherited from their ancestors. So if we go way back to like the Carboniferous era, there were a lot of insects on the planet that looked cockroach-like. They were not modern cockroaches, but they still have.

had that like flat body. They had that shield, the awning that we mentioned before. Pronotum. They had similar wings. And then mantises and cockroaches derived from insects that looked like that. And cockroaches retain that flat body. Okay. And they move so fast. Do they all move fast in the forest, in subtropical regions? Can they haul ass like that naturally? or is that just something that they're evading a shoe? I mean, it's mostly evading shoes or evading predators when they move that fast. But yeah, they do move fast and most of them do. You know, my graduate students and I, when we're out in the field,

that's what makes fieldwork fun for us is that it's like a challenge. With other insects, you know, you catch them with traps or with nets. By far the best way to catch cockroaches is with your hands, with your just bare human paws. and it takes a lot of, like, accuracy, precision and speed because these little tiny things, some of which are only a couple millimeters long and they move very, very fast.

How do you even see it? Do you all have magnifying scopes on? Like, how do you see these little ones? You just got to get used to it. You just got to, like, train your body to recognize, oh, that's a cockroach. Or sometimes it's like, you grab it, and you're like, oh, that was just a spot on a leaf.

That wasn't actually a bug. And how little are the littlest ones and how big are the biggest ones? Pretty big range in size. The smallest cockroaches are about two millimeters long. Oh, little. Yeah. And there's a couple of different tiny ones. One of the cutest tiny cockroaches is called Adafila fungacola.

They are a cockroach that lives with leaf cutter ants. They like attach onto the bodies of leaf cutter ants and sort of like hang around them. No. Do they ride them like little ponies? I think they do, yeah. You can find pictures of it online. You can find pictures online, and I did. And this little cutie does in fact live with ants, and they do ride them like ponies, sometimes right on top of their heads. And they look like a little brown beret. And if you're ready to get obsessed, you can take a gander at the 2021 study by Dr. Zachary Phillips, titled Emigrating Together, but not Establishing Together.

A cockroach rides ants and leaves, which explains that the Adafila fungacola miniature cockroach that lives in the nests of Texas leaf cutter ants, hitchhikes on their winged queens. And it happens during their nuptial flights. And I also happened upon Dr. Phillips study in its dissertation form. I was reading through it. And in the intro, Dr. Phillips states that if it weren't for those meddling cockroaches, I would have studied bees and soils. Thank you, cockroaches. You are not meddling. That was a lie. You are an inspiration. Finally, it concludes, I owe everything to my family and friends. None of you are going to read this dissertation, not even this acknowledgement, but I forgive you. And Dr. Phillips also dedicated the dissertation in part two, Cafe Medici. And I looked that up, and it's a coffee shop in Austin near

the university. And I hope someone there knows that they are name-checked in a paper about roaches flying on queens like a fever dream. And the largest cockroaches are some of the largest insects. So the largest one in terms of wingspan is megaloblata, my appropriate name. That means big cockroach. It's about the size of, I don't know, I have a pretty big hand, about the size of my hand, when its wings are spread out. And the largest one in terms of weight is the Australian burrowing cockroach. And they're, yeah, about the size of like a closed fist. And then every, every range of size in between. And when it comes to you, you haven't been chasing cockroaches in the rainforest your whole life. Did you start down an insect nerd path? It's hard to find a good cockroach expert, and you are one of the finest. So how did that happen? Yeah.

When I was a kid, I loved animals. I loved just the diversity and the surprising nature of, like, weird animals or interesting animals. I started off being interested in evolutionary biology. I wouldn't have said it at the time that it gave sort of spiritual meaning to the world around me. From there, it just kind of happened. I just kept exploring the world of evolution of animals. I ended up in a lab with Jessica Ware, who's a, I guess, a previous ologies guest, where I went into her lab and she said, okay, do you want to work with dragonflies, termites, or cockroaches?

And everyone was already working on dragonflies, and I wanted to be different. So I was like, all right, I'll do cockroaches, not knowing anything about any of them. And that's, yeah, that's why I got into it, just trying to be different, trying to do things that other people don't want to do necessarily. For more on Dr. Jessica Ware, you can listen to our Odinatology episode on Dragonflies, although odontology is the study of teeth. And yeah, I do owe you that episode. I swear I'm going to do it.

Where are you based now? And did you come from like a city or kind of a rural background? I grew up around New York City. I live most of my life around New York City. And I'm currently at the University of Illinois, which is in Champaign, in the Middle of the dead center of the Midwest. Were you pretty quickly surprised by the diversity of them? Were you already aware?

I guess I kind of start off with the default assumption that insects are just always weird and surprising and diverse. I am still surprised a lot of times by how diverse cockroaches are. There's a cockroach in India that has these like devil horns. There's cockroaches in South America that have these divvets in their sheep. and make their shield look really like some kind of like war mask. So when Dominic observes these forest roaches in the field, he says that they get around essentially like an Olympic-level American ninja warrior.

They're just maneuvering deftly to evade him. They're using speed, acrobatics, U-turns. Now, if you've seen a cockroach, let's say a city roach, you may have noticed its giant amber colored wings, or maybe you've seen the smaller kind of crickety German roaches or a dark, glossy one that might look wingless but has nubbins for wings, kind of like the arms of a mighty T-Rex. What are they doing there? But lots of cockroaches have those very short nubby wings, and we don't know why.

That's actually one of the research questions that my lab is working on. My graduate student, Johanna, is doing a deep dive into wing evolution and wing reduction in cockroaches. And it has happened many, many times. It may have to do with both flight and also evolution driven for sexual selection for mating, because cockroaches use their wings for both of those things. Wait, how do they use their wings for mating? Great question. My friend and collaborator Zuzana, who's a researcher in the Czech Republic, has done work on this. The males use their wings to position the female on their abdomen, you know, while they're doing their little mating dance.

I wanted to make babies with her. One of my favorite things about cockroaches is why the males are positioning the females on their abdomen because the males offer a copulatory gift to the females. Oh. Yes, it's so cute, right? This copulatory gift. What's so interesting about this copulatory gift is that it's made

exclusively of urine. So, yeah, it's beautiful. So actually, as far as I can tell, cockroaches are the only animals other than humans that give sexual golden showers. It's really, like, important to their biology. There's these, like, extravagant glands. They've, like, adapted these very ornate structures

for amplifying this behavior for attracting females using their urates and having females feed on their urates for longer. Now, you may be thinking, surely another animal must partake in the golden shower of courtships. And technically you are correct. So in the 2023 paper, Flamen, osteophagia, and other behaviors of giraffes, palmero nasal organ adaptation. The giraffe research team of doctors Lynette Hart and Benjamin Hart explain that males, this is a quote, Males provoke females to urinate by sniffing and prodding them. If the female is going to urinate, she first widens her hind leg stance and sets a stable posture and then urinates.

So this has been described by onlookers as gargling her sweet, sweet piss to figure out if she is the one and would be amenable to carrying his baby. And yes, we need a giraffe episode because I really need to ask these doctors' heart who are married, what their deal is, the giraffes and also them. But back to cockroaches enjoying a dinner date of crystal urine, which looks kind of like coarse coffee grounds or like little mouse droppings, but more romantic. Now, is this because in rainforests sodium is a premium? Are they getting electrolytes from that? It's actually a protein. Oh. So another, this is another superpower of cockroaches. The reason why we expel urine is because that's ammonia. That's like metabolic waste.

Our bodies cannot use them. In fact, it's toxic to us. But I mentioned earlier that cockroaches, one of their defining features is they have these endosymbiotic bacteria. And these endosymbiotic bacteria give them this superpower where they can take urates, which are normally a waste product, and recycle them. Oh. So they can recycle them and reuse them and create new amino acids from them. So cockroaches don't actually pee.

They just, or they pee very little. They just secrete those urates and they recycle them. That's so wild to me that part of what defines a cockroach is the endosymbionts. Like part of who you are is what you've got living with you, kind of? Yeah. I mean, in this case, like it seems to be so integral to their biology because they're literally, it's literally within the cells. Like, it's almost like a new type of mitochondria.

Really? And it's made of a bacterium, of a virus? What exactly are those endosymbions? Yeah, so they're called appropriately bladder bacterium, cockroach bacterium. So a 2024 study titled Frequent and Asymmetric Cell Division in Endosymbiotic bacteria of cockroaches described that these bladobacteria, which can help digest that extra uric acid to divide at really frequent and in wonky ways and have been with cockroaches for over 140 million years. So they have a good thing going. And if you're wondering, by the way, why people call cockroaches palmetto bugs, that's because there's a wood cockroach.

It lives down in Florida, southeast of the United States. They love palmetto trees. And sometimes, yeah, one might wander into people's houses. And it's just easier for people to call all roaches, palmetto bugs, because denial is a very effective drug. what about their behavior? Do they tend to be nocturnal? Most of them are nocturnal, yeah. Oh, okay.

During the day, they'll be in nooks and crannies, and they will come out sometimes at night. There are diurnal cockroaches. Typically, when you see like a colorful cockroach, I think our assumption is that most of the time those are diurnal. Yeah, if you ever see a picture of a pretty cockroach, which there is a lot of them, it's probably a diurnal. What are some of the prettiest? I know there's a domino roach, which is so cute and looks so much like the beetle that it mimics. What are some other just stunners? Yeah, there's a couple of beetle mimic cockroaches that are really cool. One of them is prosoplecta, which is found in Southeast Asia. They look like leaf beetles. There's Meliroydia Magnifica, which is emerald green and ruby red, like very bright. It's also mimicking a beetle. There's a couple of species or groups that are like metallic colored. Corey DeDarum, that one I think is sometimes colorful. There's also a lot of like Madagascar hissing cockroaches.

A lot of cockroaches have these like warts, horns on their shield. Those can have like cool and interesting pattern, color patterns on them. I mean, Melorodia Magnifica, which mimics blister beetles with this cherry red head and a metallic green body, are you shitting me? Polly Sosteria Micheli, you blue and yellow-armored beauty. I know why they call you the Mardi Gras cockroach, because I want to party with you. Pseudoglomerous Magnifica, also known as the Emerald Cockroach, which looks like a futuristic domed car in this stunning, deep, iridescent perido color. Domino cockroach?

You poked out of Joker. You're cute as hell. And for more examples, I will direct you to the 2016 Smithsonian article by Jason Patel, which is titled, I'm officially in love with cockroach. roaches. Roaches, they leave no crumbs. What are they out there eating? I once walked by an apple court on a summer's evening, and it was absolutely lousy with roaches. And I said, I got their loving that right now. Where were you? Where was it? I was in Los Phyllis, walking down the sidewalk, L.A., hot. We got hot nights, and when it's hot out, the roaches are out, and they're skittin around, and they're saying, what's this? A pizza crust? I'm in.

love and you just go get it it was like jackals around a carcass this apple core it was like definitely the watering hole of the evening but what are they out they're usually eating are they breaking down a lot of leaf litter what are they munch it on great question so for most of them we really don't know we have like no idea we can guess though one that you saw munching on the apple was probably a pest roach and we think that they probably just have very general diets. They'll just eat whatever's around. There are some cockroaches that we think probably get a lot of nutrition from bat guano, like a lot of the cave dwelling species or the species that live in hollow trees. There are some species that specialize entirely on wood,

not just termites, but the relatives of termites, as well as other cockroaches feed on wood. There are some that largely getting a lot of nutrition from fungus. They're feeding on fungus. And actually, it might be that fungus is super important to a lot of their diets since almost all cockroaches are detritivores, we think. So the fungus growing on dead stuff might be an important nutritional component to their diet. There's also some species that we think are pollinators, or drinking nectar, feeding on, like, garbage at the base or inside of bird's nests, not like, you know, bird garbage, not human garbage. Yeah, yeah. They can be nature's cleanup crews, though, right? Yeah, exactly.

What about when they are not foraging, but rather being served by their captive humans, such as a grad student in a lab? The 2006 paper Food Preference and Feeding Behavior of the German Cockroach offered up several meal options to cockroaches and found that their favorites for banana and potato. But unlike me, they can deal with not snacking because our roach friends can live for weeks without water and nearly two months with no food, which is an intermittent fasting window so long. Even Jesus couldn't hang with it. Oh, and yes, they can also live a week without a head, which is not something that John the Baptist can do. And yeah, I did Google biblical beheadings looking for a parallel. And honestly, there was no shortage to choose from. I think that when we're talking about pest species, we hear that they can survive a nuclear attack.

I have heard that they can eat a fingernail and live like a month off of that. Like how when there are roommates, like how tough are they? How badass are they? Yeah, I was just talking to some of my colleagues today about this, that we have cockroaches in our building, and this is probably no way to get rid of them. Like, we can keep the numbers down, but they're not going anywhere because they just have so many places to hide.

Eventually, they'll find food. We can keep the floors clean and, you know, clean up after ourselves, but eventually they'll find some kind of food, whether it's like the glue holding a book binding together or just dead skin. They can't survive just on that stuff, but they could eat anything for the most part. They seem indestructible

because we try to get rid of them and they just won't go away. They need us. Those pest cockroaches, they probably need us. Because the American cockroach with our classic pest cockroach is pretty much everywhere,

but it's not out in nature for the most part. Really? Yeah. It's sticking to human habitations. It loves us. Yeah. It needs us. You mentioned that German cockroaches do not come from Germany, American cockroaches, not from North America. I'm wondering about the Oriental cockroach, which also, I'm not sure, nominicature, it seems outdated. I don't know if anyone's working on that or not. Where are they initially from? So this was a little bit debated. The American cockroach probably came from Africa, somewhere in Africa. The German cockroach, I think, is from Southeast Asia. So the so-called Oriental cockroach or Blada Orientalis comes from the word for eastern roach.

And it is a misnomer because these dark water lovers are really from the region of Crimea. Now, the females have little cute winglets and they don't work. And the males have kind of a three-quarter sleeve look with some shortened wings. Also, if you absolutely cannot hang with roaches, maybe try somewhere colder. Although I did fact-checked this just now. just on a whim I yelped cockroach exterminators in Anchorage

and yeah they do have them up there too and we think that they're probably been with us for a very long time they're kind of like tiny wolves right they're just like

hanging out in the garbage pile being like what do you got and now they're just roommates unfortunately part of the family is it weird for you as someone who studies and loves roaches

to have to do abatement in your workplace and is there a good humane way to keep them from reproducing? Because obviously people do want to appreciate them, but just not in such proximity. Yeah, I mean, I don't like pest cockroaches either. Okay.

I was doing field work like two years ago, and I was in a very bad hotel. And I got woken up in the middle of the night because there was a cockroach biting, like, my lower back. And I was not happy about that. No, no. They do that? They bite?

Yeah, they bite. I mean, it doesn't hurt, really, but like it was enough to like wake me up like oh what is that yeah and so like i don't like cockroaches either i have a lot of compassion for people that are dealing with infestations because some of them can be very very bad and yeah kill them what is it good is it is the borax method good for that what i feel like spraying your living area and raid is not going to be effective other than just killing the one that you've doused the things that i would normally recommend are just clean up as much as best you can try to close any little gaps especially in plumbing

that are leading into the place where the infestation is and run a dehumidifier oh after you do all that because cockroaches are not very good at retaining water so they dry out pretty quickly so those things might not kill an infestation but it could significantly reduce you mentioned plumbing How are they surviving in pipes and not drowning, though? Like, how do they crawl out of a shower drain when you're like, I was just running that? Well, cockroaches, particularly the American cockroach, is pretty water resistant and they can swim. Oh. They don't probably want to be swimming, but they can.

And their cuticle is pretty water repellent. This is also why some folks call cockroaches water bugs, because they can crawl upside down on, like, the dry ceiling inside a pot. They can do some swimming. They can come through cracks in sewer lines. Just burst in into your life on a slip and slide. They can probably get through short distances of water pretty easily. Most cockroaches, though, do they breathe through spiracles on the side of their body? Where are they taking in air?

What's the guts like? Yeah, they use spiracles. They will expand and contract their abdomen to bring air in and out of their abdominal spiracles, which are little holes of the sides of their bodies. In terms of the guts of a roach, Dominic is pretty neutral about their anatomy. Well? Except for their genitalia, which are fantastic. What's going on there?

So, yeah, cockroaches have the males. We have these really complex and ornate genitalia that are asymmetrical. So cockroaches, like most other animals, are bilaterally symmetrical, but their genitalia are totally different on the left and the right. There's like a part for hooking the female. and preparing her for the rest of the genitalia to go in, there's a part that looks like this complicated three-dimensional clamp-like structure. There's another part that usually has a series of spines that may be used for scraping out sperm from previous mating events.

Oh, dear. Some parts that might be like a mating plug. There's like so much variability in genitalia. There's really very little we know about how they actually work. I think people should make art based on cockroach and tell you. They're so ornate. Just architectural, gorgeous. Yeah. And so useful, too. They've had so much time to evolve.

And actually, people had questions about evolution. Can I ask questions from some listeners? Absolutely. So, yeah, roaches. They are packing some pretty weird-looking asymmetrical heat. And now you know why there's so many of them. They are out there making love. But before we get to your questions, let's take a quick break to donate to a cause of theologist's choosing. And this week, Dr. Evangelista selected Teach for America, which is a network of more than 70,000 leaders who started in the classroom and remain in lifelong pursuit of the vision that one day all children will have the opportunity to attain an excellent education. And we're also going to donate to the wonderful entomologists of color at EntoPOC. And Dr. Evangelista is a founding member of that org whose mission is to diversify entomology and help support people.

People of Color or POC members of the entomology community. You can head to EntopoC.org to learn more or to donate. And thank you to sponsors of the show for making those two donations possible. All right, let's scuttle into the mailbag and eat some envelope glue, even though these questions were submitted by patrons electronically via patreon.com slash ologies, which you two can join for $1. But yeah, moving along, how do they move along? Patrons, Dr. Lena Carpenter, Rosie Clark, Indie Pepper,

Chris F. wanted to know. Let's actually talk about locomotion because Marissa Asher wanted to know why are they so bad at walking? The size freaks me out, but more than anything, the way they stumble around deplete all my bravery when it comes to trying to kill the things. And others wanted to know why they're so fast. Eva Berger says, I grew up in Georgia and I swear cockroaches fly. My question is, can they really fly or do they just glide? So, yeah, Yeah. Why are they bad at walking, good at running? Are they flying? What's happening? I don't get the bad at walking thing. I think they're pretty good at walking. Okay. And yeah, they are super fast. So maybe if someone saw a cockroach that's bad at walking, that may have been a beetle.

Do they have really good joints? Are they just like, whoop, woof, foo, foo, because they really speedwalking. They're super fast. Their legs are just optimized for sprinting. They're sprinters. And there's some cool, like, slow motion video on YouTube of cockroaches running and how they coordinate their legs and how they move their legs. And as they find a ledge, they kind of drag their hind legs. And their hind legs will, like, latch onto the ledge and they'll, like, flip around and go underneath. They're agile runners as well as flyers.

So, yeah, regarding that, do they fly, do they glide? Both. Some of the bigger ones are probably not the most graceful flyers. They probably flutter a lot. and may not be able to gain much altitude, but they do have pretty big wings. Yeah, we have evidence suggesting that cockroaches can fly multiple miles at a time. What?

If that freaks out some of the listeners out there, but these are the forest cockroaches I'm talking about. So the pest cockroaches are not very good at flying. They will flutter. If you ever want to know if a cockroach is good at flying, just pick it up and throw it in the air, and see what it does. Easier said than done, perhaps?

Yeah. You know, I have heard that pest cockroaches that come in, a lot of times will come in, if you don't have an infestation and you see like one of the American cockroaches, which takes longer to breed, it's likely that they just hitched a ride from a box. So if you're like a real online shopper,

you've got a lot of boxes in your entryway, you might have some stowaways. Yeah, absolutely. I think that's probably how they get around most of the time, because like I said before, like they don't want to stray too far from human habitations. So the way they're getting around is like through sewers, any kind of hidden tunnels underneath buildings and through like us moving them around in potted plants or boxes on Amazon, yeah. But you mentioned cleanliness, and I'm glad that you did. Chrysalis Ashton, Riley, G. G.J. Wyatt, Keenan Daly, Mindy, Corker and Turley, Austin Johnson, the Tangle System, Megas Me, Greg Wallach, and Jaws theme swimming. Austin Johnson asked, well, you settle some flim flam. I'm hearing they're clean, I'm hearing they're not. Which is it? G.J. Wyatt said, I've heard that they aren't a sign of things being dirty, per se, but they are as clean or dirty as their surroundings. G.J. Wyatt says, I'm a little curious about them because I've never seen one IR. And I'm like, what planet are you living on that

You've never seen a roach in real life. Who among us hasn't dated a musician with a roach infestation? You know what I mean? Who among us? I guess some people. But what about their cleanliness? Are they cleaning their antenna all the time? What are they doing?

Yeah. They're constantly grooming themselves. Their antenna, their legs, they are constantly grooming themselves. You know, they can't groom their whole bodies. But I think they do also have antimicrobial properties on their exoskeleton. Yes, it is true. If you don't believe me, you can curl up with the 2023 study cockroaches, a potential source of novel bioactive molecules for the benefit of human health, which gushes.

Cockroaches are one of the hardiest insects that have survived on this planet for millions of years. It says they continue. They thrive in unhygienic environments and are able to survive without food for up to 30 days, without air for around 45 minutes, and being submerged underwater for half an hour. They can endure doses of radiation 15 times greater than humans. And then the researchers ponder that it is intriguing that cockroaches are able to endure and flourish under conditions that are harmful to homo sapiens. We postulate that the cockroach gut microbiome and or its metabolites may be contributing to their hardiness,

which should be utilized for the discovery of biologically active molecules for the benefit of human health. So yeah, doctors are looking to cockroaches with stars in their eyes. money in their dreams thinking cockroaches, how do they do it? And where can I get me some of that? But now, back to the city filth. For the most part, I would say pest cockroaches, if they're around, they have to be eating something. So that might mean that there might be some food for them around, which might be crumbs, food waste, or mold, even if it's not visible, might be there for them. And basically, if you cough on a cockroach and that cockroach walks on someone's sandwich, then you just coughed on their sandwich.

Oh. But that's not the cockroaches' fault. That's your fault for coughing on the cockroach. They're not like inherently dirty, but just like anything else that moves around and interacts with its environment, it might pick up some things. Right.

So if they're using the sewer as a commuting channel, then blame the sewer, not the roaches. They're just walking where they go to walk. But you mentioned coughing on one and getting close enough to cough. on one. Blair C. Justin Bowen and Brick Carpenter had a question about their smells. Justin Bowen said, my wife wants to know why they smell like they do. I want to know why she's been so close to them that she knows what they smell like. And Justin, that seems like a conversation

you need to have with your wife. But do they have an odor when they're squished, if they're squished? They do smell. They do smell kind of musty. And I smell them most. And there's a lot of them, like in a container, because we have a lot of cockroaches and containers here in the entomology department. When you open up those containers, there's a distinct, musty kind of smell. I think it's mostly from their pheromones. And some of them have like a very strong smell. So like Uricotis, which is a genus of cockroach that is found in the tropics, but also like in Florida. They're called skunkroaches because they stink. They smell kind of like stink. have not had the pleasure of a stink bug whiff. Let me give you some adjectives to imagine in terms of

cockroach smell. I have read that they smell musty like a basement or old wood. They smell like a combination of B.O. and mold, rancid oil, wet dog, and or burnt hair. Now, that's when they're alive, but dead they smell worse. Sorry. Maybe not all of them appetizing, but Yeah, Audrey Hudak, Julia loves fun facts, clouds, bugs, and shrooms, Leo Shang, Koforias classroom, and Madeline Fox wanted to know clouds, bugs and shrooms, asks, what do they taste like? I want one in my mouth. Julia loves fun fact says, could we eat them like people eat crickets? Do people eat them in different parts of the world? Could we eat them if we farmed them? I do believe they're used as like a medicinal remedy in Eastern Asia. And I've never eaten a cockroach. The whole bit about them not peeing, but saving their pee in their bodies makes them seem not that appetizing.

Yeah. Some species I have been curious about, like panclorah, the banana cockroach, they're kind of green. They're one of the ones that are potentially pollinators and drinking nectar. They might taste nice. And sure, plenty of people eat roaches, sometimes probably without telling anyone. And sometimes in broad daylight in cultures where it's perfectly normal, like China, Australia, Mexico. Deep fried seems to be the way to go. And considering that in my country, in the sprawl of America, we eat deep fried Pepsi, which seems impossible from a physics perspective.

But one BBC article titled, How Cockroaches Could Save Lives, praised our new buddy's exoskeletons for perhaps holding the key to antibiotic resistant infections, and also noted that cockroach tea was used in the Americas as a tetanus remedy. And cockroach cream and syrup is administered in some Chinese hospitals for burns and stomach issues, even heart problems. So medicinal cockroaches also found in my home, to my own surprise. So your pod mother, Jared, my spouse, has a black belt in jiu-jitsu. And I brag about that a lot. But over the years, he has come home with just a checkerboard of injuries. Something's always hurting. So we have a lot of kind of questionable remedies on hand. But the one,

One that works wonders is this thing called the 701 pain-easing plaster. It's in this little yellow tin. It has both English and Chinese writing on the outside. And these are like sticky plasters that come in a roll. It looks like brown fruit leather. And it smells like menthol and camphor. And if you look on the back, the first ingredient is ground beetles. And I was like, what does that mean?

Dug in a little further. and you will find it's an excellent euphemism for a wingless cockroach. These are pain patches made of cockroaches, and many, many times I have shared a bed with the minty ghosts of dead roaches. I don't care if you're eating right now. This is my truth. Savannah Johnson first-time question asker and Mouse Paxton wanted to know. Mouse Paxton says, every time I eat bugles, I remember the time I once watched a Madagascar hissing cockroach give live birth for like 10 minutes at the Science Center while eating bugles. Are they good parents? I really thought maybe that bugles would look like their genitalia, but no, this person was just eating bugles. Interestingly

enough, I was eating bugles yesterday. And I ate bugles about once every 10 years. So who knows? We're living in a simulation. I need you to know, I really don't eat bugles often. And while I ate bugles a few weeks back when this was recorded, I also ate bugles last night after your pod mother and I had done some gardening. But while I'm generally doing a poor job of parenting myself lately, let's see how the roaches are fairing. So many patrons asked about roaches starting a family, including Casa Reed Dean, Oliver Callis, Key lime pie, Simone Francoor, potato puffer, Shayla Borger, and Kimberly Peck needed to know. What kind of babies we talk about? Some of them are popping out egg cases. Some of them are doing live births. What's going on? Yeah, that's a great question.

Now I just can't. For a second, I thought maybe the cockroaches were eating the bugles. I thought so too. I thought I didn't know where they were going with bugles, but now we know. Yeah. So parental care, another superpower of cockroaches. So like some of the subsocial ones, the females will stick around their offspring and keep, protect them in burrows. In termites and the ones related to termites, they need to have these endosymbiance in their gut that help them. them eat wood. And so the parents stick around to feed that to them. They also feed it to them with their butts by eating each other's butt secretions. So another beautiful aspect of their physiology. Do roaches have like one opening such as a cloaca? Not really kiddo. But they do have a multi-purpose anus like a pee and poo chute. And then the boys got dazzling asymmetric

architectural dongs called phalamirs. And a genital appendage, rhythmically inserted into a sweetheart to help with sperm transfer. And this organ is called a titillator. Now, your girly poproaches, they have ovaries, vagina, an ovipositor, they got a genital pouch, and they have some surprises in store for you, too. A defining feature of cockroaches is that egg case, but in some lineages, that egg case has been modified. So there's a group where they don't lay the egg case.

They hold it inside of them and they let their young, incubate inside the egg case which they keep inside of their bodies and then there's some that give true live birth where they don't even have an egg case the eggs just develop directly inside the coolest example of parental care in one species is the young uh they have modified mouth parts their mouth parts are modified into like not like a hypodermic needle but they are modified to to pierce their mother's exoskeleton and suck her blood Wow. So that's a dedicated mom.

Woof, it's like nursing, but blood. Little vampire babies. Did you know that some cockroaches make milk for their babies? Through an odd series of events, I recently paid a lab to milk a cockroach for me, and I'll tell you all about it in a bonus episode, coming out in a few days about cockroach milk. Spooktober.

What about their populations? Zen frog, Cynthia Sinabar, Mark Hewlett, Meg Salujah, mygalologist, mini, mini, and thearasoporos, Jess, wanted to know. Zenfrog said, if I see one, how many are there really Cynthia Sinavar? Is it true that if you see one roach, there's a million hiding nearby?

Is that true? I mean, from going in the forest, if you see one in the forest, you know, that's not the only one, obviously. Yeah, in the forest, it's a general kind of thing in entomology or even broader ecology, where sometimes we only see like one,

individual of a species. There's probably way more of them. We just don't know where. Yeah. So when you see one, there's probably more because that individual had to come from somewhere and populations that are very small aren't well sustained. So it's a good hypothesis, yeah. So this really depends on the species. Some outdoor wood roaches can find their way in through a drain and they're only in your house because they got lost or they followed the call of a light source and we're curious. Others say that if you have a little German roaches, there are about 100 more for every roach that you see. Also, take a Google and see what baby cockroaches look like. They're kind of beetle-esque with a little round butt. And I've gotten texts from friends asking what kind of

bug they found, and I have to break the news to them that two roaches fell in love and now life is a nightmare. Unless you like roaches, which we do. We love them, right? We appreciate them. Philippa Jimenez and ORA, first-time question-asker, want to know. Felipe asked, I would like to know if the ologist has the ringtone Le Cucaracha. No, I don't. You do not. Okay. Just checking.

A few people asked what you thought of the song. Other people asked if you've seen Joe's apartment. Have you seen Joe's apartment? Not a dude named Joe, but a movie called Joe's apartment about roaches. It's fine. This summer, we cordially invite you to spend the night. at Joe's apartment. La Cucaracha and Joe's apartment.

It doesn't really ever come up. I've seen parts of the relevant scene in Joe's apartment. The entire movie is about a guy who moves to New York and has an apartment infested with roaches who talk and are up to a lot of mayhem. And it is a horrifying way to approach the rom-com genre. But let's just say after 30 years, 30 years ago, Joe's apartment was released. People still talk about it. So I guess it is a movie.

It has legs. Now, another indelible art of the cockroach is Franz Kafka's 1915 literary masterpiece, Metamorphosis, which I'm not going to consider this a spoiler because it's literally the first paragraph, and it's been out for 100 years. So consider this opening graph kind of like a sampler platter of some cockroach pop culture. So it reads, one morning, when Gregor Samsa woke from troubled dreams, he found himself transformed in his bed into a horrible vermin. He lay on his armor-like back, and if he lifted his head a little, he could see his brown belly, slightly domed and divided by arches into stiff sections. The bedding was hardly able to cover it and seemed ready to slide off any moment. His many legs, pitifully thin compared with the size of the rest of him, waved about helplessly as he looked.

So if you want a story about being a cockroach, metamorphosis awaits. Are there any movies or books that do a good job of, sort of. sort of celebrating the evolution and the majesty of the cockroach, is Kafka one of them? Yeah, I mean, that's certainly a mysterious and ominous portrayal of possibly a cockroach in the Kafka story. I know Wally made cockroaches kind of cute. But yeah, generally, cockroaches are not portrayed in the way that I'm not. I see them. I don't think about the American cockroach very much. And that's usually what is used in movies and TV and stuff is the American cockroach. What cockroaches would you say you think about the most?

So there's a group of cockroaches from South America called Neo-Bletalini. They're very common in like the Amazon and they really haven't been studied at all in like 50 years. I think about them a lot because I want to study them. They're super diverse. Some of them are quite pretty. Some of them are, like, yellow-y-colored, but they have a lot of intricate patterns, and they're another one of the groups that have very interesting genitalia, diversity in their genitalia. But it's impossible to work with them because so much of the work is like 100 years old that we can't even really identify them. I just think about them a lot because I want to study them. I want to know what they're doing. Brioidiversity asked, can you talk about Simondoa conservatives? The so-called extinct cockroach known to inhabit a single bat cave in Guinea, West Africa, which was destroyed by mining.

Eleanor Wall also asked about cave-dwelling species, as did, again, biodiversity. A cave cockroach, Helmoblata, Luis Rothi, that hitches rides on bats in order to move caves. Have you heard of those ones? I have. So that example of the extinct cockroach, the Simandoah cockroach, that's always the example I throw out when people ask about, like, oh, well, cockroaches survive in apocalypse. Well, we know of that one and it went extinct pretty quickly, we think. And this Simandoah roach continues to thrive, but only in captivity, partly because it's a pretty chill pet, as long as you don't stress them out. And partly, I think, for design reasons, they are very cute.

They have like a bumblebee, little striped butt. They have nice white trim around their pronotum, we now know. Oh, and the one that rides a bat like a getaway car is this stunning, translucent butter yellow. So if you're in the market for a new special interest or you need things to talk about at an upcoming holiday function, may I suggest cave cockroaches? Fantastic. Now, what if you hate this and everyone and this whole episode and me? You're not alone. many of you all capsed me with questions like Ursula Goodwins, who said, I don't mind bugs, but I hate cockroaches. Why do I dislike them so much? Is this completely irrational? Zizz, the Tangle System, W. Amanda Hanks, Jacob Morvei, Hope, Amanda Metcalfe, Anastasia Press, and of her jelly tot. Marianna Alvarez, the Renuio, James Rossotti, Deborah L. Blanton, Sabrina Williams, Prucli, Kenny Schaver, Mark Rubin, Gull next door, and even roach-likers, Hagular, Chloe, and Nature Nessie,

needed some insight on why these creatures give people the willies. What about Sienna wanted to know, as did a lot of people. Please tell me how to love cockroaches. They are the only animals in the world that I dislike, aside from a few notably awful human animals, they say, what's a good way to get over your, like, lily-l-l-l-a-about them in order to appreciate them? Like I said before,

there's some of the best mothers in the animal kingdom. just the amount of different parental care strategies that you'll see in them. If you live in a place where you can go outside and see like forest cockroaches, like if you live in South America or in an area with a wet tropical forest, go out and try to take pictures of them. Some of them are very pretty. If anyone goes to my Inaturalist page and look at my favorites, so that's, I'm Roach Brain on I Naturalist and look at my favorites,

It's like I don't see how you can look at some of these pictures of beautiful cockroaches and just not think, oh, okay, that's actually kind of nice. If not, wow, that's beautiful. Roaches, again, are fashion. There are mint green roaches with delicate wings. There's a goofy-looking ant-looking one. Beautiful, banded orange and brown and yellow, kind of like a throwback 1970s van or a live candy corn. There's a Lusa Hermitica, which hails.

from South America. It glows under black light and has two big spooky fake eyes on its face. You can get yourself a Halloween hisser from Madagascar. Orange and black stripes. It makes noises when it hates you. When it's threatened or horny, a few species of Madagascar hissing critters huff and puff. They sound like a windex bottle or a can of duster on its last laugh. Although the more you handle them trying to get them to hiss, the less scare they are. And the more over it, they become. So you've gone from like a predator to a dance mom and they're not having it. Now, what are some other roaches you can cuddle with? Tortolini Hot wrote in and said, I have several Madagascar hissing cockroaches. One of them, potatoes, has a white, wormy, alien blob

coming out of his butt. None of the entomologists I work with know what's going on, but he seems to be fine. Do you have any guesses? And I'm not an entomologist, nor am I a female cockroach. But based on some things I've seen online, he may just have a bone or like you may be staring down the barrel of his titillator. Now, teacher, Thorpeosaurus, Jess, and Hope also asked about good ambassador species. Do you think that holding a Madagascar cockroach would be good exposure therapy? Rhee asked why they're so calm compared to ones that run a little faster, but I feel like a Madagascar hissing roach is a good ambassador species for some.

Yeah, they're fun. They're easy to handle. They're interesting to look at. They're not super ugly. Maybe just on people they are. Wow. Okay. I do think they're a good ambassadors. When entomologists, when we do outreach, you see that kids aren't usually afraid of looking at or handling Madagascar hissing cockroaches, but adults often are. It's not necessarily something inherently scary about. It's just something that we learn over the course of our lives. Kind of like snakes and spiders, same things. We see what's modeled. So not only do we have an episode on creepy crawlies called Forest Entomology, but we also just released an episode on what makes things creepy. And a big part of it is unpredictability. So if you know what a roach is doing, is that unpredictable? Are they creepy? I don't have answers. I'm just writing this like a Sex in the City newspaper column. Kate said, are they actually whittle, sweetie babies? They seem

to be lovely, or have I just anthropomorphize the ones I've met? But all the Madagascar ones have been very, very chill and calm. But all of your research, it's taken you to many different places, I imagine, right? Yeah, I've done field work mostly in South America, but also in West Africa. And it wasn't field work, but I also did a postdoc in Paris, France. Some of the best researchers of cockroaches, both present and past, have been in the museum in Paris. You know, once there's a good collection of an insect group somewhere, then that attracts other people to research that insect group. And it kind of just builds over time. I love the idea of an infestation of cockroach experts in Paris. A colony of cockroach experts. What's the hardest part about the job? Is it traveling to new places? Is that the best part? Is it paperwork? Is it misconception? Paperwork sucks. But the hardest part is that, like, I'm motivated all. a lot by conservation. And I want to use my research in order to understand how to better conserve

cockroaches and other animals as well. Yet, in order to achieve that, I have to kill a lot of cockroaches. And if you're listening to this, you hate cockroaches more than me, but I've killed way more than me. And so, you know, it doesn't feel great. I imagine it's like ethanol, usually and not just like putting down a bunch of borax. Yeah, it's ethanol. Grab them, stick him in a vial of ethanol and try to ignore the screams in your brain. Do you think that they get so drunk right before they meet their great grandparents? Yeah, like maybe they're just hella loaded, and then they slip into the next realm. What about the best thing about cockroaches, your favorite thing or your favorite thing about

being a lettoeologist, lettoeologist? Well, other than the drinking their pee thing, which is the best fun fact, the thing that I think is best or most important about them is their ecological importance. Cockroids are so abundant in tropical rainforests. Now, they're not as abundant as like ants, wasps, but each individual cockroach tends to be larger. So they end up having a lot of biomass, which means that they're probably super important prey items. for birds, small lizards, other insects. I have heard of some people who live in gecko territories that they bring a few geckos in to gobble up their roaches and spiders.

But you've got to watch out for this because the roaches could be dusted in pesticides. You could be harming the geckos. Also, do not go buy a gecko and let it roam free range. Or in 10 years, I'm going to have to make an episode about out-of-control invasive geckos because of you. Now, other people swear by rubbing a bar of Irish spring soap along doorways and windows to keep them out. I've heard borax baits are effective. And there's a little syringe of roach bait. You can squeeze out kind of like peanut butter in different areas.

And it's called Advion. And it has like 15,000 five-star reviews in case you don't want these beautiful city creatures in your houses. So people don't like cockroaches in your houses, but cockroaches as a whole are. are hugely important to these certain ecosystems. In fact, there's some studies showing that the largest proportion of animal biomass in tropical rainforests canopies are cockroaches. Woo! Way to go.

Yeah. Just dominating. I mean, it's so interesting that you can go into a forest and just not even have any comprehension of how surrounded by bugs you are. You can sit on a lawn and not realize, like, how many spices. are right under your butt. Yeah, they're just in every little crevice and doing everything you can possibly imagine.

So next time you see a roach, you can think about its relatives, pretend it's just a praying mantis, just kind of a chubbier praying mantis or rounder praying mantis, and maybe see if you can hold one. Yeah, absolutely. This has been so lovely.

Thank you for letting me ask you so many cockroachy questions. You're welcome. Thank you, Allie. So ask insect people, ill-informed questions, if you have to, because that's really the only way to bust some flim-flam. So how do you feel about roaches now? Do you feel better? I knew it. Send this to anyone who thinks roaches are out to get them personally. And to learn more about Dr. Evangelista's work, you can head to his lab website, roachbrain.com. Thank me later. Also, he does have that Gmail address, but only email him with roach praise or like good questions. You can talk to an exterminator for the rest.

Okay, we are at Ologies on Instagram, a blue sky. I'm at Alleyward with one L on both. You can find many more links up at Alleyward.com slash ologies slash blotodialogy. A sorted catalog of Ologies episodes is available for you at Ologies. We have shorter, kid-friendly versions of Ologies called Smologies, and those are available

wherever you get podcasts to join our Patreon and submit questions or get early access to our live shows. Go to patreon.com slash ologies. Last week, I mentioned I'm doing our first ever live show on November 17th at the Bell House in Brooklyn. And folks, you almost sold it out. I think there are maybe 20 tickets left as far as I know. And I didn't even put it on social media. So see there and join Patreon for $1 to get an early heads up on the next one.

Aaron Talbert, Admanziology's podcast Facebook group, Aveline Malik makes our professional transcripts. Kelly R. Dwyer does the website. Noel Dilworth is our super speedy scheduling producer. Susan Hale gently rears us as our managing director. Jake Chafee sometimes works at night as our editor. And lead editor of our audio colony is Mercedes Maitland of Maitland Audio. Nick Thorburn made the theme music.

And if you stick around until the end of the show, I do burden you with a secret about my life. And whenever I give talks or someone asked me for career advice, I tell them how often I think of cockroaches in an aspirational way. Like if you want a job, you sometimes can't watch. a door and wait for it to open. You've got to cram in through the cracks like a cockroach. You want to be in there? You've got to scuttle under the door. You've got to send that email. You've got to send a follow-up email. Be willing to start small too. Like eat a fingernail on the way up to that apple core. Outlast others. Be good to others. Keep your side of the antenna clean and get the hell in there. You are like a roach. You're smart enough.

You're strong enough. That doorjam can't stop you. Go forth. I'll see you on the other side. Okay, bye-bye. Thank you.