Ologies with Alie Ward - Bonus Minisode: Kalology -- Your Letters

Episode Date: August 21, 2018

As a companion to Kalology (BEAUTY STANDARDS) Alie reads your thoughts about appearance and beauty culture in this, a bonus minisode. You wrote in about how make-up is a creative outlet, how beauty standards can be an oppressive time suck, about hairy pits and culture clashes, money burdens, appearances in different professions, trans and non-binary perspectives, and what you wish the next generation did differently. Y'all made Ol' Ward tear up more than once, and it's an honor to share your stories.Dr. Renee Engeln's work"Beauty Sick," the bookDr. Crystal Dilworth's TEDx TalkMore episode sources & linksBecome a patron of Ologies for as little as a buck a monthOlogiesMerch.com has hats, shirts, pins, totes!Follow @Ologies on Twitter and InstagramFollow @AlieWard on Twitter and InstagramSound editing by Steven Ray MorrisTheme song by Nick Thorburn

Oh hey, it's me again, twice in one day, your stepmom who's just doing her damn best kids back just with a little more collology. Okay, in the episode with Dr. Renee Engel, we talked all about beauty standards and the history and the engine that drives the commerce behind it and how appearance and confidence can be linked both for better and for worse. And I asked on Twitter and Patreon and in the Facebook group for your stories, I got almost a hundred emails from you. And women, non-binary listeners of all backgrounds and opinions and I wanted to share your stories.

So I'm putting out a second extra bonus episode because I want you guys to have a voice in this. And I'm admittedly a little scared to put these collology episodes out because I'll quote a friend, I don't want to yuck your yum. Beauty culture can be fun and empowering and artistic and it can feel kind of like a treat at the end of the day. Love care and beauty routines are super intertwined with each other and confidence affects us in like work and in personal relationships.

But beauty standards have also made us turn like a pretty harsh and literally distorted wide-angle selfie lens on ourselves. And I'm just hoping that seeing the mechanisms of keeping us questioning our bodies and faces will take away the power and leave the choice of how you look up to you, not what you think other people expect. So I think beauty culture could be kind of like the holidays. Like it could be a treat, it could give you warm feelings, but it could also be a stressful drag that drains you of all of your money.

And it really depends on how much you're trying to match magazines and go above expectations if you're natural to you. In this mini-sode solo, we're going to hear from you, we'll learn how beauty culture has affected your lives because I just think most of us think we're alone on this. Like I have had blackheads since sixth grade, every single day of my life since then and I feel like I'm the only person who looks at their dotted nose and goes, why me? I feel like I'm the only one on planet Earth. Although B.R.A. strips don't work on me, I've Googled all the tips, nothing works, whatever.

I think my teeth look weird. I wrestle with my curls and it has been suggested by TV makeup artists that I get Botox and I have. In my case, I looked like Karatop and I was out like 500 bucks. It wasn't good. In fact, one of the things I love about doing this podcastology so much is that I'm recording this right now in no makeup, in my closet, my hair is in a bun, no mascara, it doesn't matter.

You guys just accept me for my thoughts and my stupid questions and words and curiosity and not if my hair has been straightened and then meticulously recurred or if my face looks symmetrical enough or if you would swipe a certain way on a dating app with me. This podcast has been really empowering for me because it's made me value myself in ways that aren't revoked if my gray roots are showing or if I look tired. I've been there, I struggle to with appearance in so many ways and in these episodes, I'm not posing any huge solutions. It's not realistic for a lot of us to just up and go natural and be like, fuck you, world,

but we can get a better handle on why we feel the way we do and maybe find some power in saying, yeah, no, I see what you're doing there. I know when you rent a car and then they try to tell you that you need a bunch of extra insurance but really your own car insurance covers it, once you know that, you can be like, yeah, no, I see what's happening, I'm good, thanks. Also just in FYI, I read all of your letters every last one and I'm including excerpts from as many as possible. I left out some details I thought might be too hard to hear but we do hear about everything

from shaving to body image to mascara and what we see on Instagram just so you know. We're going to be talking about that stuff. Your stories were personal, they were illuminating, they were super validating and I hope this makes you see that everyone, no matter what their social media looks like or how perfect they appear or how little you think you relate to them or if they look different from your friends, we all have similar insecurities and everyone deserves more kindness and less judgment. The fact that any of us have survived the journey from an embryo to an actual breathing

person is just a fucking beautiful miracle of science and molecules and chance and to criticize ourselves for not being replicas of a magazine ad selling hair gel is just criminal. So let's hear your perspectives. Here we go. First off, on the topic of social media, listener, Mr. Anthony Black of the Love Examiner podcast, Delightful, I'm a big fan of his on social media, said, my friends and I are always talking about Instagram is ruining our lives.

We follow people who look impossibly perfect and are constantly subconsciously comparing ourselves to them. It's like we're not judging ourselves in a mirror anymore. We're judging our entire social media narrative on the number of likes we receive. I think that's a really good point. I think we all kind of do that. I mean, amen to that. Renee is like, just follow dogs and if you can get away with it, it seems like a fine

tactic. Maybe I should just open a secret account and it won't be called Schmadvoord von Podblast. I really might just open an account that just follows dogs. First letter we're going to start out with is from Radka Vakarya, who says, I think confidence makes people beautiful. If you feel good about the way you look at shows and smiles are contagious, you might even cause an epidemic. It's kind of like wearing nice underwear for a big day, even though you know no one's

going to see it. So we'll have that as our starting thought. Thank you, Radka. Confidence is like cool underpants. I wanted to hear from some people who love makeup and who like beauty culture and Kimberly Hudson wrote in and said, Hey, I'm a 43 year old lady, no brag, who's been on a mild year long skincare bender. I have sheet masks, clay masks, toners, serums, stuff with snail glue and vitamin C and maybe

gold. It makes me feel better about aging since I can't stop that from happening and Botox creeps me out. I'm a fan of self esteem and I think everyone is easier to exist with when they like themselves. Paula Herrera says, Well, I have a lot of strong feelings about the pressure women have to wear makeup in society. Like how a woman wearing makeup will probably get a job over a woman not wearing makeup. I do like the feeling makeup can give me.

I work from home and I rarely have to go out and see anyone during the work day, but I still love getting ready in the morning. I don't go full glam or anything, but my mood definitely changes when I finish up my morning routine with some fresh mascara. Just my quick thoughts this morning while I get ready for the day. Caitlin wrote in and said, I think there are a lot of unreasonable standards out there for women and men. On the other hand, I love makeup.

My collection is out of control. I've been known to do a full face of glam makeup by myself at home on a Tuesday night before bed. Of course, it always looks best when you aren't leaving the house. She says, What annoys me most is the assumption that people think I feel like I have to wear makeup. I don't. 80% of the time I look like a swamp monster.

It doesn't bother me. But I love the creativity and the artistry they can go into makeup. I guess I just wished that people realized that there's room for everyone to just do what they want and what makes them happy. She says, Sorry if this is rambly. It's past my bed times. Sarah Nichelle wrote in and said, though I don't wear makeup very often myself, I absolutely love it and admire artists who can create everything from beautiful, glamorous looks

to scary illusions and even special effects makeup with like normal everyday beauty products. Shout out to glam and gore on YouTube. Hey girl. She says, I spent a lot of money on makeup because it's fun to play with and who doesn't like to pretend they're making a makeup tutorial in the bathroom by themselves at 3 a.m.? No, just me. Okay. I can't speak to anyone else, but in my experience as a bisexual girl who is moderately open

about her sexuality, I do find that some people are surprised to learn of my orientation and that I don't look gay. It happens. I don't get offended by the phrasing myself. And your weird stepdaughter who will put any type of leftovers into a tortilla. Best sign off. Mads Clement wrote in and they said, Beauty standards have messed me up for a long time. I'm not traditionally attractive.

I'm fat. I don't identify with either side of the gender binary. Never in my life have I fit the mold of a beautiful person. They say mainstream beauty culture for a long time destroyed me. It still does. However, I found a lot of comfort in makeup. It's expensive. I think that the beauty industry preys on people's perceived flaws and don't even get

me started on racism, but makeup is an art form and I think it's great. Humans like to paint things on our body. That's cool. I'm glad we've continued that tradition. However, I don't think there should be an obligation to wear it because you're imperfect without it. Makeup is art. It's a choice and people are beautiful with and without it.

I was curious what dudes thought of beauty culture. I was like, yo, dudes, right in. Olaf wrote in and said, I generally like what women can do and bring out with makeup. I partly don't want to know how much time is spent on something and the discomforts that go with it. I can only hope it's worth it and women gain what they would like to gain. If I look at it from the perspective of what sparked love, that was never looks. I also was never attracted to the more beautiful girlfriend by Olaf.

So Olaf is like, don't tell me how much it hurts. I don't want to know. Also, if I love you, I love you. Okay. Jeffrey wrote in and said, as a cis, straight, older, mid 40s, white male, there have traditionally been few socially acceptable modes of physical adornment. One of the few ways I can adorn myself with something in a word pretty and have that adornment not carry with it a lot of societal implications about my sexuality and personality is via

tattoos in my experience. Like for example, flowers, pretty flowers. Right now I have on my body four colorful pretty peony flowers and one large rose bloom. So sometimes dudes want to have pretty stuff and they're like, well, okay, I inked it into my skin, which is also cool and painful, but not as painful as waxing. Ron wrote in and said, newly single again, I've been working the various dating apps and I'm finding it a bit disheartening when a woman's posting specifies only guys over five, 10 or no one under six feet.

Is this height shaming slash discrimination or am I being too sensitive? I'd have no issue with someone being taller than me. Certainly with the whole body acceptance thing. Can judging someone by their height still be okay? That's a great question, Rob. I don't know. I definitely think you should talk to other dudes about it. And ladies, if you're hearing this, just think you could be missing out on really cool

oligites on those apps. You'd be like, you want to go on a bug hunt with me? Think about it. Joe wrote in and said, as a man, I would really like to have more style choices and have more information available on how to take care of my skin and things like that. On the flip side, I really like for women not to feel like they need to compare themselves to impossible beauty standards. In closing, I'd really like for everyone to be who they want to be.

Everyone should be allowed to be comfortable with the way they look. Yes, Joe. Joe for president agreed. Russell wrote in and said, the closest I came to understanding my ego came in college when the website Hot or Not was unleashed on the world. I uploaded a few photos and got rated as high as 7.5. When my ratings fell into the mid-six range, I felt vaguely upset, but also ashamed of being upset.

Bob wrote in and said, being a straight man, most beauty standards don't apply often. That being said, I think women place far too much emphasis on their beauty routines. Men I know are really indifferent as to a woman's appearance as long as she's clean. And I wrote back, ha, good point. How do you define clean, Bob? And he said, at the moment, my standards have been adjusted to just not having noticeable body odor. So if you don't stink, hit up, Bob.

Dylan wrote in and said, I've had a bit of debate over whether or not I should send this, but in the words of everyone about to do something wrong, fuck it. In high school, I always went to school with perfect hair and I had an emo fringe. We have all had dark fashion moments. I got a letter from Mike who said, I have a lot of conflicting thoughts about beauty culture. For reference, I'm a cis, hetero, middle-aged, mixed-race, Polish, macaque dude. I think, like everyone, I've been insecure about my appearance, both for my ability to

attract women and because my looks favor the native side of my family and I'm often treated like an outsider and suspected by the white majority community. That sucks and I'm sorry. He writes, Before she had cancer, my wife, Melissa, was an attorney. She had to be extremely careful about what she wore and how she presented herself. She had to look professional to appear competent, but not too soft or feminine because she needs to control her often violent, sexist and crude male clients. Since she's been sick, she's lost her hair twice from radiation, gained a lot of weight

from steroids and uses a walker to get around. She's still the most beautiful woman in the world to me. Despite my statements to the contrary, she still feels the people are judging her for how she looks. This is the harm I think our society's emphasis on beauty does. She is the strongest, smartest, kindest woman I've ever known, but she's been conditioned to feel embarrassed that she doesn't look better while fighting a terminal brain tumor. Thank you for sending that mic and please hug Melissa for me.

So yes, plenty of you guys wrote in to me saying that you hate beauty culture. You feel oppressed and pissed by it. And I related to so many of these, which is why I'm going to read them. You can hear what other listeners had to say about this. I got a letter from Dr. Trista Edwards who says, I feel like I've spent a ridiculous amount of time discussing with other female friends how much we hate our own appearance and how much we spend on trying to change, accept, and improve our appearance. Intelligently, I know it's all BS, patriarchy, capitalism, yada, yada, yada.

So I still don't know why I spend so much time hating on myself and my appearance. It's so ingrained that the mind beasties always seem to win out over what I actually value. I will believe in the narrative that without makeup, I look old or tired, unkempt. All of which I know is completely absurd. I feel like I could go on endlessly about this. But I love that a growing media presence of gender fluidity is changing the makeup game. I love that women and folks of varying sizes, body types, color, and varying abilities are changing the standards of beauty.

But we all have a long way to go, mostly with acceptance for ourselves. Lisa wrote in and said, there's the general resentment with how long it takes me to get ready for a day of work. I try to move faster, but somehow it always takes me about an hour to get ready. Meanwhile, my spouse is up and ready in five minutes. That means he ends up with more free time to do his own things while my work day is extended. Oh my word.

Over the years, I've slowly been able to break free and now I can go on makeup free vacations and weekends, which is such a freeing move. The time back and the break from the stupid routine is so excellent. Definitely wish there was more parody on this. I would love to see more men wearing makeup and women more free to wear less. Stephanie wrote in and echoed that and said, I wish it was more acceptable to not wear makeup. It's frustrating because I just don't care about makeup and I can't be bothered to put

any on most days. I remember reading several articles about how women who don't wear makeup were seen as less professional at work than women who do wear makeup. On the other hand, for women who do wear makeup, if you wear too much apparently, that can limit you professionally. It seems like we're damned if we do, damned if we don't. Anonymous wrote in and said, I'm a 41 year old cis, asexual white woman who has gained and kept about 50 pounds over my doctor's preferred weight from depression treatments.

Very uncomfortable appearing in public the way I am most comfortable in private. Does that make sense? Yeah girl, you're talking to someone who's not wearing a bra and my hair is in a bun right now. So yes. Anonymous threw out some math and this is pretty genius. She says, my perception is that people who present as female are allowed one deviation from the ideal.

You are deemed attractive or acceptable with buzzed hair if you're also able-bodied, thin, symmetrical and dressed richly. But you can dress like a slob if you're thin, white, young, pretty, etc. Great point. Another anonymous wrote in and said, I'm in my mid 30s and terrified of getting older. I feel my value depreciating as I age. It's wrong and sad and uncool. I try so hard every day to look pretty with makeup, hair, nice outfits.

I spend my money on products intended to reduce signs of aging. I keep the grays covered. I shave my legs and my junk. It's a lot of work and I'm still not what one would consider attractive, she said. It's hard because I know that it's what's on the inside that counts but it is difficult not to stress about appearance in this competitive looks driven society. Jocelyn wrote in and said, I have rosacea and I hate it. I don't want to feel pressure to wear makeup when I'm at work or at the shops or something

but I usually do because it helps me feel normal. How is that right? I should be normal as I am without any additions or modifications. Sometimes I enjoy putting on makeup and going out but some days it's a chore and I feel like I have to do it. Jordan wrote in and said, I'm a cis woman and I don't fit the ideal hourglass pear shaped mold. I've struggled with my relationship to my body and I'm very light skinned

so I'm definitely privileged in that sense but I fall prey to the Eurocentric beauty standards pushed by our society. However, until a few years ago I spent a lot of time and money on makeup and trying to change my appearance to meet these standards. I'm not sure how I feel about spending so much money because while it gave me more time with myself and a comforting routine, it didn't change my relationship with myself and my appearance. I think it's down to someone's choice.

Sometimes grooming can be a peaceful ritual but it can be a symptom of being told we're not enough as we are. We also heard from Anne who mentioned that I was at a family gathering a summer or two ago arguing that some new Disney movie was misogynistic and my aunt, exasperated with my feminism and overthinking said, well at least you don't have freedom pits at which point I raised my arms and showed her. It was complicated though. I was proud but later I couldn't help but wonder if I should be embarrassed?

What did all the other family members think? Why do I feel the people feel threatened by women who don't shave? Also I'd like you to know that her email was titled freedom pits. Freedom pits are a thing! I'm learning so much! I got an email from Shannon who was a model who said, when I was 16 during the modeling years one of the things I saw up close and personal was how our bodies in advertising are just to sell a product.

We are no different than a shoe rack selling high heels or a set table marketing silverware. But I also saw so many girls in my grade try to be the size of the magazine girls which is barely the point of the ads. The shoes are the point. The money is the point. The photographer probably didn't even know that girl's name and I'm sad at how much body sadness I saw in the industry when in reality the designers don't care about anything other than how a garment falls.

Models may wells be plastic. I got a letter from a friend Sarah who says, as to your question how much do I think about all this beauty culture all the time? I can logically look at this dilemma and say my appearance has zero correlation to my self-worth. I feel like this is true for everyone. Every person has an intrinsic value that has nothing to do with what they look like. However growing up as a girl in America the idea that what I'm worth is almost entirely based on what I look like is deeply ingrained in me.

As much as I call bullshit on this idea I can't seem to let it go. The central idea that I grapple with is how can I feel good about my appearance when I believe feeling good about my appearance shouldn't matter. Oh this is a great point. How should I treat my beauty routine when I believe it shouldn't matter? How I usually deal with this dilemma she says is to completely avoid it all together. I feel so bad about the way I look that I feel like if I ignore it I can sort of feel like it isn't there.

And part of what Sarah deals with is alopecia. She says part of it is comfort too. I feel uncomfortable wearing makeup and of course the wig is the worst but it's more that I feel so conspicuous when I dress up. My heart hurts for my daughter that she will feel even a tenth of the pain I feel about my appearance. I'm actively working on it though. I guess I just want to define for myself what it means to feel beautiful and how much of a beauty routine would go into it.

Love you Sarah. I got a few other great emails from moms who had different perspectives on beauty culture after they popped out some bibbas. Vanessa says I'm a white cis hetero woman. Personally my biggest struggle has been with acne. I had cystic acne so not only did it look terrible at the time but it hurt a lot. My skin is now much better than it has ever been but I will never get peach skin. I mostly avoid wearing makeup since my skin tends to break out more easily afterward.

But since I've had kids I'm trying real hard every day to love myself just the way I am. The most important thing for me is not deprecating myself in front of my kids especially my daughter who is now seven years old. Her style can be pretty gender neutral but even then I see her giving more and more attention to how she looks and sometimes I find it hard she's just a kid. I don't see my boy in front of the mirror placing his hair up in the morning. He goes out the door with peanut butter up to his forehead without giving a fuck. Clearly society is sending a toxic message to girls and women or any people identifying

as women and as a parent I sometimes feel clueless. I mean you want your kids growing up loving themselves. You want their self-esteem to be through the roof but yet as a 30-something adult you still struggle with all those things but that's a great point. The idea that little dudes just leave the house. Peanut butter up to their eyebrows. Don't give a fuck. Stephanie also had a different take on beauty since she became a mom.

She says anyway maybe a weird take on your question however over the last year I've had a complete shift in how I view beauty modesty and the female body in general. I was raised really conservative so very modest. Flash forward to being pregnant with my wee little babers and having my bod wrecked by pregnancy. Now in case you didn't know pregnancy is rough between your body taking on a completely new shape and it leaking weird fluids constantly you don't particularly care what other people think of you. At least I didn't.

I found some hella beauty though in myself and the other moms around me like women are strong as hell. When you whip out your tit for the millionth time in public you find your own version of beauty and you find yourself cheering for every single body type. Every single expression of a strong body in whatever form that may take. Now I'm rocking literally whatever the hell I want to wear whatever I think looks good. Stuff I was too worried to have people judge me in before. So moms open in minds over here and I heard from a lot of people who dealt not so much with beauty

and makeup and lipstick and mascara but just being comfortable in their own bodies. Lisa says I'm a plus-sized teenager who's just starting to accept her body the way it is. Looking back at photos of me I now realize how skewed my own perception of myself used to be. I saw myself as a lot bigger than I actually was because people tend to taunt you whether you have five pounds too much or fifty pounds. So I'm hopeful for the future as I'm trying to look past society's beauty standards and find my own. Someone named Kat wrote in and said I was bullied at school for being tall and skinny.

What many people see as the ideal. I got teased for looking anorexic when I was just a growing lean kid. As I got older I gained weight and felt pressure to be skinny. I still feel these pressures today but I try to remind myself that I should only keep myself happy and healthy and the rest doesn't matter. Amen. Someone named Rachel wrote in and had a similar experience saying that she grew up as a skinny mini.

She'd have strangers come up and ask me with concern if I was aware that I was too skinny and she envied the hell out of real women who had curves and stretch marks and chub. I knew our culture said that my thin frame was the ideal but I felt like it was a false equivalent of beautiful made up by selfish greedy people. It was a weird space to be in. Anyway I've come to like myself a lot more in the past few years. I've accepted that my beauty doesn't have to compete with anybody else's and I've come to realize what bullshit a lot of beauty standards are anyway.

Sorry this turned into a bit of a therapy session. Hey Rachel I loved it. Thanks for opening up. Jay wrote in to say that her parents' favorite form of shit talking when they were young was to call other people fat and ugly. She said my folks loved me unconditionally and never said anything unkind to them but they were brutal about themselves and other people and this is from two intelligent kind liberal people.

So growing up in that environment made me self-conscious about how I look obviously. She goes on to say I still won't go out in public in a sleeveless shirt because I think my arms are too fat and the feminist in me is pissed. Who the hell cares? Love yourself the way you are. Screw everyone else. I'd say 90% of the time I'm there but it's tough and it pisses me off because I could be spending that energy and brain power on about a million other things that would make

me happy or make the world better. Obviously there's nothing wrong with beauty in and of itself but it's all just so fucking exhausting. Anyway I guess my check for our session will be in the mail. Super looking forward to this episode. I will not invoice you. I enjoyed your emails tremendously. Liz wrote in to say as a person who's always had issues with my appearance I feel like there will never be an end to my self-criticism and although I am often satisfied with what

I see in mirrors when I get ready I always feel embarrassed when I see photos of myself. I can't tell what to believe and I feel like I genuinely have no idea what I look like in the world. Me personally, I always think of myself as what happens when you open your front-facing camera. That's what I think I look like all the time. So just the fact that we have front-facing cameras that open accidentally is like probably ruining so many people right now at this moment. We have to just remember that that's not reality. Tracy, a guy wrote in to say for me having just come out as gay to my unsupportive parents,

a few supportive family members and a supportive close family friend, it's hard to write what I desire as I was never able to openly express who I truly am. All through high school I was athletics. So now I'm trying to get comfortable my own skin as an openly gay male. Well, openly gay to some and still working on the rest with love and support. Tracy. Anonymous wrote in to say, I would say the beauty standards are on my mind about 80% of the time. I'm a plus-sized 25-year-old woman in the world of beauty.

The world in general doesn't really cater to people like me. For most of my life I've had horrible self-esteem. My body issues tend to be very much related to modern standards of beauty and whether or not I meet them. I think we as humans have a long way to go when it comes to kinder beauty standards. I hear you with that. I also heard from listeners who struggle with racism in the beauty industry. Anonymous wrote in and said, Hey Ali, I wanted to give some perspective from that of a half-rican.

I'm half black and half white. Being mixed is so crazy for tons of different reasons. Sometimes you're shunned for having the good hair like Becky by the black community. Then there's the of course black men date you because I'm curvy and why on earth would a white guy date a curvy woman? So I've struggled with body image my whole life. And why is it socially acceptable to walk up to someone and ask what are you? I'm a fucking human.

You also having to defend my answer that I'm mixed and people not believing it is frustrating. In terms of some of your other questions, I hate my hair. It's curly and I always want to straighten it. I've been leaving it natural more often, probably because of the humidity. There's zero point in straightening it. I think I started straightening my hair because of society though. Curls were never a thing that was highlighted growing up. I have no time for makeup.

That's a going out thing only. But these are some quick thoughts that came to my mind. Kennedy from the Patreon page says, It took me a long time to be happy with my curly hair. I used to straighten it every day for years when I was younger. Not only was it damaging to my hair, but I hate to think of all the time I wasted that could have been spent elsewhere. Caitlin Donald says,

I second Kennedy's point about curly hair. My sister is a lawyer with very curly hair who's been told multiple times to make her hair look a little more professional. And should I mention, her hair is beautiful. She does a great job of keeping a pullback off her face and things like that. The only issue is because it's curly. As a person with curly hair, I get it. Audra Rodin and said,

Here are my tidbits on callology in the adopted from Asia population. I'm adopted from China. I grew up in a predominantly white area. Thus, I grew up surrounded by American beauty standards. Being born into one culture, yet raised in another results in a lot of pressure and two different sets of standards. Sometimes I feel like I'm being judged by both simultaneously. I now just do what I want,

but the high school and college years weren't so great. Thanks for listening. Thank you for listening, Audra. High size as a Vietnamese American, appearance, pressure and beauty cultures in mixed bag. I've been overweight since I was a teen. My aunts mean well, but there's always a recommendation on a diet,

a tea or an exercise routine so that I can lose weight and be pretty. My daughter is mixed race and can pass for white. I've been asked by shop owners if I'm the babysitter, and I know she'll face hurt for not looking Asian enough. Sorry for the rant. No apologies. Oh, dad pod is here. Listen, now for all of this pressure to look one way and wear makeup.

I also heard from a bunch of people in academia and in the STEM fields who say it's the opposite. Dr. Tori S. Benson says I'm a neuroscientist or a psychopathologist, if you will. As a woman in STEM, I feel like there are the same pressures on appearance that you see in the real world except they're flipped. I like to wear dresses, jewelry and makeup

and have found that having a traditionally feminine appearance or putting effort into your appearance discredits you and leads to judgment. People I meet are quick to tell me I don't look like a scientist. I've heard faculty members speaking poorly of women who put effort into their appearance. It's important to note that this feedback comes from both men and women and it's a bizarre flipped twilight zone

of what we currently think in terms of women's beauty standards. I heard that from Jordan too who says given my experience in the engineering field, I've never experienced any kind of expectation for women to wear makeup at work. I heard from another female scientist who says throughout my time in science, I had to balance that impossible no right answer dilemma

of looking good but not too good. Particularly because as a young scientist, so much depends on your ability to get old white men to tell you things. They have to be interested and willing to talk to you and teach you stuff but not so interested that they get handsy. Sam wrote in and said, I've never cared too much about my appearance instead being the sort of person who would rather sacrifice

makeup application time in the morning for sleep. This has worked out for me because I am an academic scientist. Often I notice that there's a sort of reverse beauty standard effect in academia. If someone, a woman especially, takes what is perceived as too much time or care in her appearance, often people conclude that she must be compensating for poor research. Can you believe that? Jordan wrote in to say,

as an engineer, I do not hesitate to show up to work makeup-less if I don't feel like wearing it that day. I have a friend, Dr. Crystal Dilworth, who was a neuroscientist who did an entire TED talk in very bright high heels just to prove that women in STEM can also be girly if they want. I will link it in the show notes. So clearly beauty culture is confusing.

We hear you have to look glamorous and perfect. In some cases we also hear don't look too glamorous or else no one will have any faith in your intelligence. It's a complete and total mind fuck. And I heard from some really wonderful trans listeners and I feel super privileged to get their voices in here. And Taye wrote in and said, as a recently out and recently transitioning trans man,

I've been conflicted about the old beauty habits when I presented as a femme woman. While on principle I support men wearing makeup, if I do wear makeup or reveal any of my girly habits, people misgender me more often. I'm still really into makeup and skincare and all that and sometimes I still put on my whole face but it's been difficult dealing with the constraints

of traditional masculinity. I also heard from Jake who is a non-binary trans man who says I'm an electrologist, an oligist saying, I remove hair with a cool machine that zaps people's pores. So it would seem like I'm all about beauty, right? But it's actually the opposite. I hate beauty culture and the expectation for women to be hairless.

I hate that there are multiple billion dollar industries devoted to creating and then profiting off insecurities. I'm not against people wanting to feel beautiful. I'm against the industries that have taken a financial incentive to make people feel ugly. All that gets a little bit more complicated when it comes to trans people and that's why I remove hair because for some trans people,

hair removal isn't just about beauty. It's a dysphoria and a safety issue. I'm a non-binary trans man and all of my clients are trans women. The worst beauty standard specific to trans people in my opinion is the expectation to pass or look exactly like cis people. It ranges from easy to impossible to achieve but even if it's easy, I wish it wasn't necessary.

A lot of trans women have facial hair that they wish wasn't there and it makes a big quality of life improvement when I get rid of it. One thing I can comment on from personal is the terrible expectation for women to be underweight. Being seen as a guy has been a huge relief not just for my dysphoria

but also being allowed to be bigger. Jake says that they struggled with diets as a kid and went on to say there are many people involved in creating and marketing these diets that have destroyed my life and health and the lives of tons of other people and that's my main beef with the beauty industry.

It's hurting people. I love the art side but the dark side is much larger and way more profitable. Anonymous wrote in and said, hey okay so I guess my main thing I want to say is that I'm a trans masculine Korean person adopted by white people.

My identity is complicated to say the least and Western culture definitely feminizes Asian men. The examples of Asian men considered attractive that I see in media are like K-pop stars. As an Asian person assigned female at birth it often feels hopeless. It's really hard thing to navigate as I'm trying to present myself in a masculine way.

I guess that's all I have to say. Cheers. Cheers back Atcha and thank you for emailing me from your vacation. Anna also wrote in and said, a bit about me I'm a full-time trans woman. I'm married to a cis woman who's simply the greatest. I've been on hormone therapy for about six months now. I don't pass as female on any day really

but I do what I can. Beauty standards is a tricky one for me. They're very intertwined with my transition and self-perception. They are all at once positive and negative. I spend a lot of time occupied with beauty standards sometimes painfully so. I'm always comparing my face and body to cis gendered women

seeing how I size up to conventional female beauty. I will get made up when I'm alone because I feel more feminine and happier when I see myself in the mirror. I also wish it was more accepted for cis men to wear makeup and just generally for people to be who they want to be. I really think now and historically the trans and the queer community has opened doors

for cis gendered and hetero people to say, is this stereotype of what I'm supposed to look like or what I'm supposed to behave like? Is it really fitting well for me? And so I just want to say a big thanks to the LGTBQ PLUS community for opening those doors. I heard from Corey who says, I'm a white, asexual, aromantic cis woman in my 30s

and I've never really cared about makeup. I do wish that makeup and hair weren't so gendered. I feel like I'm not always taken seriously in business environments because I don't wear makeup. My hair isn't done. A beauty regime is something you do for yourself. So find your own business everyone. An anonymous woman also wrote in and said,

for a long time I was questioning whether or not to describe myself as asexual or ace. The people I did talk to about being asexual often told me that I couldn't make that decision because I'm a plus size woman and thus men weren't interested in me. My sexuality apparently had to be tied to how beautiful and attractive other people found me.

The thing is being asexual is about the amount of sexual attraction and or desire you feel and experience. It is distinctly not about the amount of sexual attraction or desire other people feel or experience towards you. That takes away my agency over my own body. It takes away the idea that women are sexual beings without men around and disregards that plus size women

experience attraction and desire and are in good relationships. It's pretty offensive. Very good point. Those people suck. Wesley who signs himself as a baby lawyer to be says I'm a cis male who's recently lost some weight. I'm 23.

I'm young. However, I have some stretch marks. Stretch marks are something that I feel gay men hide a lot. A bunch of us have them, but no one talks about them or shows them. So Wesley, baby lawyer to be, more you talk about them, the less people don't talk about them.

Does that make sense? Yeah. So way to go. I really loved reading all of your letters and I'm really glad that I put out this episode because giving voice to all of your thoughts and your different perspectives is so important to understanding

that our specific insecurities might be different but they all affect us in really the same way. We all question whether or not we're good enough. If you listen to the Fiorology episode, Mary Poff and Roth, that was like one of her big tendencies. We just worry we're not good enough

and that's what beauty standards do to us. And I really also just want to put my thanks out to the LGBTQ plus community. I said this in the gynecology episode, but y'all are on the front lines in terms of changing the way we look at super binary gender norms. I think those hurt us a lot.

And not only can we all learn about being who we truly are in accepting yourselves, you're also helping other people accept themselves. So thank you for that. One of the last emails I'll read is from a white cis woman named Alyssa who says, I wanted to tell you about what happened

when I started watching RuPaul's Drag Race with my kids. It was my birthday. I really wanted to watch it. So let my kids watch along with me, even knowing there would be a lot of swearing. This first episode and the rest of the season that we watched together sparked some really important

and interesting conversations about beauty, appearance, gender, sexuality. When we watched drag queens get dolled up, we had a conversation about how boys and girls don't have to follow rules about how people think they should dress or behave. When we saw the drag queens put on makeup, we talked about how makeup can be a way to have fun

and express our unique personalities. And when we listened to the drag queens talk about their sexuality and rejection from their families, it started a great conversation about accepting people and themselves no matter who they choose to love. And within a few weeks of watching these episodes,

my son decided to dress up as Ruth Bader Ginsburg for a class presentation on his hero. My daughter signed up to be the only girl on her t-ball team and now proudly proclaims that blue is her favorite color. While I can't prove it, I suspect that their choices were due in large part to Drag Race and the conversations that it prompted.

And of course, I'm attaching pictures. She attached pictures of her son dressed as Ruth Bader Ginsburg and her daughter on a t-ball team and I'm literally crying right now. And she says, P.S. I told my kids about slug penises today and they laughed their asses off. Alyssa, cool mom dude.

In closing, I wanted to read an email from a listener named Tara Shill, who had written me one email about her conflicts with beauty culture and then sent a follow-up email called beauty thoughts part two. I realized that I forgot to mention to you what I find beautiful. She says,

The earth. Wild animals. Nature. David Attenborough, my crush for life. Love on others. The eyes of everything living. Whales. Lions.

Elephants. Rhinos. Frogs. Spiders are a phenomenal creature. Birds. I want to be a bald eagle in my string theory universe. Trees are freaking amazingly beautiful. Innocence.

Freedom is awesome and beautiful. The Hubble telescope and the pictures we make with it. Pictures of the earth are so beautiful it hurts. Camping is beautifully gross in temporary spurts. People who are kind. Science can be beauty. DNA is freakishly gorgeous. Your podcast is beautiful because of you and your guests.

Have a beautiful day. Thanks for asking us beautiful fans questions. Thank you listeners for answering them. My aim with this is to really make everyone feel seen and heard and included. So if I said anything in language that was wrong, please let me know because I want to do better. But I hope I covered all the bases and thank you guys for listening. Thank you for being so curious and kind.

I really love making this and I can't tell you how much all of Jesus meant to me in terms of learning about you guys and learning about myself and learning about the world. So go out and ask smart people dumb questions. And make sure to appreciate the body that you're in. Because old Dad Ward Von podcast thinks it's dope as fuck. Bye bye. you