Ologies with Alie Ward - Castorology (BEAVERS) with Rob Rich

Episode Date: December 18, 2024

Orange teeth! Vanilla butts! Architecture with twigs! Olde-timey joke books? Field naturalist, conservationist, wildlife tracker and “beaver believer” Rob Rich works with the National Wildlife Federation’s coordination of the Montana Beaver Working Group and answers all of our Castorological questions about: baby beavers, tooth tools, lodges, dams, the sound of water, the slap of a tail, who eats beaver and why, beavers in peril, in folklore, in smut books, in your neighborhood and in your dreams forever. Also: yes we discuss slang. Follow Rob Rich on LinkedInA donation went to Tracker Certification North AmericaMore episode sources and linksSmologies (short, classroom-safe) episodesOther episodes you may enjoy: Hydrochoerology (CAPYBARAS), Bisonology (BUFFALO), Road Ecology (ROAD KILL), Sciuridology (SQUIRRELS), Oreamnology (MOUNTAIN GOATS ARE NOT GOATS), Lutrinology (OTTERS), Procyonology (RACCOONS), Opossumology (O/POSSUMS), Mammalogy (MAMMALS), Scatology (POOP), Gynecology (NETHER HEALTH), Sexology (SEX), Dasyurology (TASMANIAN DEVILS)Sponsors of OlogiesTranscripts and bleeped episodesBecome a patron of Ologies for as little as a buck a monthOlogiesMerch.com has hats, shirts, hoodies, totes!Follow Ologies on Instagram and BlueskyFollow Alie Ward on Instagram and TikTokEditing by Mercedes Maitland of Maitland Audio Productions and Jake ChaffeeManaging Director: Susan HaleScheduling Producer: Noel DilworthTranscripts by Aveline Malek Website by Kelly R. DwyerTheme song by Nick Thorburn

We have this issue, I think, as a people just of beaver amnesia, not being able to see what the beavers created before us. And I would bet almost the entirety of us that are drinking water and flushing toilets and taking showers and all the things, our water is coming from somewhere that at some point in its history was shaped by a beaver. Oh, hey, it's the lady at the donut store who knows that you like bear claws.

Allie Ward, this is Ollagies, this is Beavers. Finally, the Beavers are here. And ushering them in is an absolutely delightful beaver man who is a field naturalist and a conservationist who does a ton of biological surveys and teaches wildlife tracking and beaver ecology. And he writes about the beaver as well He's a coordinator for the National Wildlife Federation's Montana beaver working group and he knows so much about beavers So he spoke to me one morning from his chilly house in the Swan Valley outside of Missoula, Montana He was wearing a coat and a hat and a warm smile and we just we had the loveliest time

chatting beavers as I knew that we would. So we're going to get to it in a moment. But first, thank you to all the patrons at patreon.com slash ologies who submitted questions for this. You too can join for as little as a dollar a month to support the show. Thanks for everyone in ologies merch at ologiesmerch.com and to everyone who reviews the show which helps us so much. costs you zero dollars I read them all such as this week's from Max Emilia who wrote I have been a dedicated listener since the inception of this

podcast in 2017. Max, seven and a half years. You're a real one. I like you. Thank you for that. Thank you to everyone who leaves reviews and thank you also to sponsors of the show who make it possible to donate to a cause selected by the guest each week. So one sec. Okay, so castorology, it's a study indeed. It comes from the root for castor, which may come from the Greek for he who excels.

And there's this big debate about whether this divine Greek mythological twin named Caster, who was worshiped as a healer, got his name from smelly beaver juice used as a medicine for millennia, or if it was the other way around. But we're here. It's now. Let's get to what patron Stratford Abbott calls swimming furry chainsaws. And let's talk about baby beavers. Tooth tools, lodges, dams, the sound of water, the slap of a tail. Who eats beaver and why? The best beaver real estate, the plight of the beaver, hats, whiskey, beavers in folklore, in joke books, in your neighborhood, and in your dreams forever with naturalist, wildlife ecologist, tracker,

and castorologist, Rob Rich. Rob Rich, he.H.E.M. is great. And castrology, I would, this seems like it's something that's been in the books before. Do you ever people call themselves castorologists? Generally not castorologists. There was an early book in the late 1800s that had that name actually, but generally it's not castorology. It's either just beaver fans, beaver believers, all the things that are associated with interest and curiosity about beavers. I love that they have the term beaver believer because I think not all species get a catchy

name like that. That's kind of the classic at the moment. And where are you right now? Can you set the scene? You're in Montana? Yeah, I'm calling from Northwest Montana, and I live in a valley called the Swan Valley, a little bit northeast of Missoula and south of Kalispell, up against a part of the Rocky Mountains there and below Glacier National

Park. This is a special valley in a lot of ways. It's very well watered. It has a lot of historic beaver activity and current and was also shaped by glaciers, which the beavers actively followed. Oh, so the beavers followed the glaciers down in their evolution to where there was water, the beavers went? In a way, yeah. The last glaciation that covered America was about 10,000 to 12,000 years ago, I believe, as it pocked out a lot of depressional wetlands and carved the rivers in certain ways that made it really conducive to complex flows, which beavers are actively seeking

out all the time. And so they find in glaciated regions of North America. And so beavers are actively seeking out all the time. And so they find in glaciated regions of North America. And so beavers and glaciers together are two of the major continental shapers of North America. And you mentioned North America. Where else in the world do beavers live? Are they just a North American species? I feel like I should know this, but I feel like maybe zoos all over the world have beavers, but do they naturally occur in other places? Yeah, so that's a great question. You know, the beaver evolution is very complex, and we actually at one time had 33 different

genera of beavers and genera like the genus, species, binomial classification. So we had 33 different types of genus of beaver across the northern hemisphere at one time. And that is totally at this point winnowed down to one genus, the genus Castor. And Castor canadensis is the North American beaver, the only one native to this continent. And Castor fiber is the beaver, that Eurasian beaver, and that is over in Europe and parts of northern Asia as well. The fossil record dates back 33 million years with 33 beaver genera. That's not even species.

So many beaver options. About 33 million years ago, I believe, is when the beavers really started diversifying and a lot of rodents generally, that was a really time of rodent diversification. And so we had, you know, beavers, one that was kind of more recent times, the castoroides that lived just south of the glacial ice sheets and whatnot. And so that was one that was about the size of a bear, almost like 175, 200 pounds, you know, very large beaver. We had beavers, one called Paleo Castor that actually dug corkscrew-like tunnels with its teeth into the, what we now know as the prairies of Nebraska.

And so very different lifestyle. Huge beavers, bear-sized beavers, and some that dug spiral tunnels. They are gone, but they are never going to be forgotten. Please tell all of your friends. But it wasn't until they really converged on that semi-aquatic behavior and the wood cutting and dam building behaviors. When all three of those parts converged in the beaver, that is what drew their evolutionary success and that's kind of the one that's persisting today.

I cannot imagine a beaver so big. That's unfathomable to me. Not unsurprising, but what about modern day beavers? Let's say the North American ones, or I'm not sure they differ much with Eurasian, but how big are they? If I were to, let's say, just be blessed with the ability to hold a beaver,

is it like a sack of potatoes? Are they smaller than we think? I can't even get my head around because I see them from so far away if I ever get to see them. Yeah, good question. So there's some regional variation in that, but generally beavers in the north are a little bit larger just to have a larger body size to sustain themselves through the winter and have that energy capacity. But I would say an average size would be between 40 to 50 pounds for an adult beaver, but they can get up to 60 to 90 pounds in some of those areas where they're quite large. And this is not sack of potato size for them at all. It's more along the sides of a small dog in some ways. Maybe like a border collie, but much lower to the ground obviously, shorter legs, but

something along those lines. When they're born though, they're only about a pound or about the size of a loaf of bread maybe, you know, that would be a good comparison. For a newborn beaver, it's about a pound. You know what weighs a pound? Like a big apple or an orange. A baby beaver the size of a piece of fruit. In fact, one rehabber site I went to described them thusly. A healthy kit looks like a large fuzzy softball with a rubber like tail. They're so tiny. How many are in a litter? Generally, two kits.

A newborn beaver is called a kit. And so generally, two kits per litter. They can have up to four sometimes. The yearlings of that same monogamous pair of male and female will stay on with the family. And so you can have a combination of the two adults and then yearlings from the previous year and then newborns all in one lodge at the same time. But by the time they reach two years old, that's typically a natural dispersal

time for beavers. And so the two-year-olds will leave their natal birth area and strike out to find a new wetland that they can call their own. And they're monogamous? How long do they tend to stick together for? That's a great question. Generally, they stay together for the entire time. Beavers, they love love. We love them for it. Although some North American beavers do cheat, I found out. But the Eurasian ones are pretty much totally loyal. But beavers co-parent, which is more than we can say for a lot of bitter couples that I see posting on TikTok. And very social and very territorial against other non-related beavers.

They erect a lot of scent mounds, they're called, and they can be up to over a foot wide, a foot tall. And so there are these just heaps of dredged up vegetation and mud from the bottom of the pond or the wetland where they are. And then they can dollop all their castorium on top of that, which is a very unique smelling excretion from a particular gland in them. But they can bring that out to put on the castor mound or scent mound, sometimes called, to kind of ward off non-related beavers.

I'm so glad that you brought up that gland because I'm boggled by it. And I didn't know that castorium was a product necessarily. Is it really used for things like artificial vanilla and strawberry and raspberry. Is there any known history on how humans realized that these scent mounds and that these secretions from beavers would be delicious additives to things? Well, they definitely do have a particular scent and it's not something that is out of question to smell yourself. You definitely find these especially in the spring time when beavers are actively dispersing that you know the same time about when new kits are born

is a really important time to kind of mark the territory so to speak and so these scent mounds are all over the place at that time and it does have kind of a vanilla-ish tint. I think it's very nice it's probably dependent on the nose who's smelling it. And it does have a history of being used in certain products and we have used it for perfume and different things. I believe there's a Schnaps in, is it Germany? I believe it's Germany that uses beaver hot and it's kind of like a Schnaps liqueur that relies on that. Okay so I looked into this and castorium is again not in the anal glands but in

these different pouches near there and yes both male and female beavers make it. Everyone makes it. Not you but beavers do and this unctuous creamy orange substance has vanilla notes and suggests the smell of an old leather chair and a den full of antique books and I've read that's owing to all the trees that kind of make their way through beaver guts. And you can gently milk Castorium from a beaver but that is seen as very rude to many beavers so sadly most of it comes from trappers who harvest the sack, and they sometimes let that sack dry out and mellow for a few years before grinding it

up. Now, other than actively seeking it out, you're not likely to find castorium like hiding in your foods. It's just much cheaper to use actual vanilla or artificial vanilla flavor, a lot easier to harvest. So it's rare to find anything with castorium on a shelf. Although that liquor that Rob mentioned, it sounds extremely German in concept

and its name has umlauts and it translates to beaver howl, but it's actually Swedish. And my dear friend Simone Jetsch happens to be both Swedish and in Sweden. And so I texted her and her mom at an ungodly time for me, but it was a normal person time for Sweden. And I asked if this was like a common beverage and she was like, no, no, I've never heard of that. But there's this place called Tamworth Distillery in the US and they do offer an

Ode to Musk beaver gland perfumed whiskey in case you need to get your hands and your tongues on that. Why would you, though? Well, it's supposed to be tasty, but also for thousands of years it was used to treat gout and fevers and headaches and other ailments. Pliny's pharmonic aborted facience in the journal Science says that castorium used as an incense could provide the termination of a pregnancy according to the Roman naturalist Pliny who lived in the first century AD. What else was used back then as family planning? Well your other options were looking at a viper, holding a Raven's egg, stepping over a beaver, or letting pass into your crotch the fumes from an ass's house.

And the paper notes parenthetically donkey stable, but thanks to several thousand years of progress, medically one need not dance over a beaver or invite donkey fumes up your tunic because there are pharmaceuticals now. But while here in the US many states have rolled back access to that healthcare to pre-Castorium in a lantern times. But anyway, rodent secretions, many uses throughout the years, but no, your birthday cake flavored

lip gloss does not have a beaver bud in it. You're good. They're kind of artificially synthesized now. And you can smell it when you're out looking for beavers or if you're out in the fields. Is it something like the breeze shifts and then suddenly you can smell a mound? It's not that sharp. It won't be wafting everywhere, but it's very concentrated and localized.

And you do kind of know when you hit it when you're like kind of near it yourself but it generally takes you know leaning down just kind of getting up close to it and just but it's a very nice smell it doesn't have anything related to scat or urine or they do have a very pronounced anal gland as well oh nice but that's used for waterproofing that's not used for the purposes of defending their territory. Do you have any idea how far away you are from a beaver right now? Like where you live in the Swan Valley? Do you know when I cross this bridge into town, there's a dam or a lodge there. Are you pretty aware of where they are in your local environment? Yeah, I am. And I think that's one of

the things that I'm really passionate about is just interpreting, you know, beaver landscapes wherever you are. I mean, so many of us on the North American continent live in and among beaver wetlands without even knowing it sometimes. We have this issue, I think, as a people just of beaver amnesia, not being able to see what, you know, the beavers created before us. And I would bet almost the entirety of us that are drinking water and flushing toilets and taking showers and all the things, our water is coming from somewhere

that at some point in its history was shaped by a beaver. And there are things that we can still see looking at aerial photography, looking at different ways, looking at, you know, different ways the land drains, that land stacked up. And that might've been a beaver dam from like a couple centuries ago or something. And so it's really neat to be able to interpret it at that level of history in a contemporary sense. I love being able to kind of know my neighbors, so to speak, of who's building and who's active. It's very much a dynamic ebb and flow cycle of the beaver, so fun to

watch. And what about you? Where did you grow up and when did you start wanting to be involved with tracking beavers and learning more about them? I've only seen maybe one or two in my life in Montana splashing from afar, but I know I'm fascinated with them. But when did it start for you? I didn't have like one big light bulb moment. I consider myself very fortunate to, you know, grew up in a family that really supported

just my natural curiosities in a lot of ways. And I grew up in the Northeast and spent a lot of time in Northern New York and New England, you know, doing hiking and stuff and beavers were certainly part of the theme then. I would spend a lot of time in the woods, saw beavers, but they were just another animal at the time. For me, it wasn't anything like they were changing the world in the way that they do. But I think one of the kind of milestones for me was going to Isle Royale National Park after college, one of my first wildlife fieldwork gigs was I was helping out with this wolf moose project

that's called. Our ostensible purpose was really to track down the bones of moose that were killed by wolves the previous winter. You know, I was there in the summer and I was just mind blown with how the beavers had changed the environment there in a way that was not only conducive to the moose, but also really important for supporting the wolves as well. You know, wolves are, one of the leaner times for them is in summer.

And so I was just fascinated by, you know, this is a time when the wolves have adapted to eat beavers as well. I really got to get a really close look and just appreciate their keystone role is just how complicated and connected and all the things that they do for diverse animals, predators, prey and everything in between. And so they're a real integrator of a lot of things. And that's one of the areas where it really lit up for me. You're talking about them as something that changes

the ecosystem and can have a lot of impact on things like literally downstream. And humans, unfortunately, have kind of stepped into that role, not in good ways a lot. But I'm so curious about the beaver instinct, and they can have such huge impacts on environments. And I don't know how they know how to do that, because I couldn't go just build a boat by myself. I couldn't just go build a house by myself.

How do beavers know how to chop down wood? How to stack it? What exactly are they doing with all of this instinct? And how is it shaping the environment in their immediate way? What does it do for beavers to make dams and lodges? Yeah, thanks. You're welcome. So, I think one of the things that is happening is that it is an instinct. There is part of that proclivity to do that instinctually, but it's also a learned response.

They've shown how young beavers are actively learning with their parents and watching them and manipulating wood in the same way. And so, building a dam is not a necessity for a beaver. That is not in itself is not what's necessary. Wait, they don't need to build dams like all of them? I guess if you score an apartment next to a park, you don't need to erect a swing set in the front yard. Beavers are thriving on lake systems

where they can have plenty of water. They're on rivers a lot of times where they can bank up in the side of the riverbank without any consequence. And they don't need to build an entire dam across a river or whatnot to have their way. But what dam building does is it is a mechanism for, you know, extending their safety from predators, but also increasing their access to food. And so when they build a dam in a stream

system, it's not only spreading the water out across, you know, the stream system laterally, but it's also stacking up a lot of weight behind that dam. And so it's sinking more water into exchange with the groundwater system. And I think too often we just think of our river systems as one upstream, downstream, going one way. And what's natural about rivers and watershed systems is that when they spread out as well as down,

so laterally and vertically as well, and the researcher Ellen Wohl has just done a lot of great work showing that kind of hydrological complexity of beaver systems. So beavers making dams not only spread the stream water wider out, but deeper into the soils as well and into the groundwater.

And for more, you can see Dr. Wohl's 2017 paper in the Journal of Water Resources Research titled, Beaver-mediated Lateral Hydrologic Connectivity, Fluvial Carbon and Nutrient Flux, and Aquatic Ecosystems Metabolism, which maybe you've already read. But if not, TLDR is that our beaver friends make complex watery environments and that those areas are a good sink for water when the streams run low and for carbon capture and nutrients for the rest of the ecosystems. Even hydrologists are like to have beavers, that's cool. But when the water spreads out, they are very comfortable in water,

but not as much on land. You got to imagine a beaver has front feet that are very dexterous about the size of like a deck of cards or so. And then the hind feet are double or even more than double that size and they're webbed, entirely webbed. So it's like walking on hands on

one part but then like enormous flippers on the back. And so they're very awkward and just ungain... very slow and they do smell a lot and so they're very attractive to a number of predators on land. And so being in water is a safe place for them. They're just ultimate graceful in the water. And so that's safe. And as the water extends, they're both encouraging new like willow, aspen, cottonwood regeneration, and then able to access that for their own food and building uses as well. So they're kind of shoring up that river. It spreads out, it gets deeper, and then naturally willows and other things use that water source

to grow into it. They create this new little ecosystem where more things start to thrive there. Yeah, that's right. A lot of species wherever beavers were in that range have co-evolved with beavers and depend on their work and their disturbance factor to make the habitats where they thrive. And so willows are just a consummate example of that. They're truly an amazing plant in their ability to be just a sprig if it's attached, gets a little bit of a root hold in moist soil can just take off

and can propagate very fast in ways that are really great. And so beavers are a little bit different than like an elk or a deer or other browser in that they're not seeking so much the buds, you know, that they don't want that just fresh shoot growth. And so plants like willows, aspens, cottonwoods, those are kind of their three favorites really. Those are some of the plants that evolved in those riparian systems that really thrive as well. And so it is a very dynamic cycle. And beavers, they create diversity by being dynamic. One of the things that they do is they don't being dynamic. One of the things that they do is they don't always stay in that spot as one food patch will become diminished a little bit, they'll shift to another. And so at each of those different stages, temporally in the beaver succession, that brings a whole

new suite of species that will thrive in that altered state. And so it's a constantly shifting mosaic that beavers really promote. Well, if they get up and go, if they're like, not as much here and they get up and go, do they have to build an entirely new dam? Or do they ever find abandoned dams from other beavers? And they're like, this is pretty good. Yes. I mean, one of the greatest predictors of future beaver habitat is historic beaver presence. And so that's why it's important to have that eye to be able to see where a prior dam complex was or other old chew sign that you can see on sticks and things around.

Those are all great signs for where future beavers could establish as well. And that's really important for people involved in beaver restoration is looking at kind of where those prior sites were productive, because those are the places that they will likely come back to. You know, it always boggles me to hear how fast a spider, like an orb weaver, can spin a web. Kind of the timeline of how different organisms create things, I think it can be really surprising. But when it comes to making a dam, and I know they're really huge ranges probably in sizes, but are they working on it for like a year? Is it a multi-year project or do they say, all right, let's chew

some trees down, let's get this thing done? And it's like pretty fast. Yeah, great question. So it does vary a ton, but generally they are working very hard and in a way very fast on it. Sometimes alterations or blowouts will happen in a dam system naturally or human caused for various reasons and beavers are very fast to return to that leak and triggered a lot by the sound of flowing water as well. The instinct, you know, that is a trigger to where the leak is, so to speak. Not only that, but they tend to work the night shift. And they dig out trails and even canals to float sticks and tree trunks toward the dams. They're making log rides.

But you know, I also sometimes resist the idea of just the busy, you know, being a beaver. If you ever get the chance to watch a beaver doing its work in this setting, they're not, they're never frenzied, you know, in their activity. I always really appreciate just how deliberate and just like tactful they are in placement. It's more of just like a constant process as opposed to just like this frenzy of activity. They have just really mastered the art of maintenance. I think so many of us humans just don't know how to do basic maintenance activities sometimes. We can dispose of something or get a new one, but we don't know how to really just tinker and maintain things over time. So I think that's part of what makes beaver structures so resilient is that they're constantly evolving and adapting with the changes that they're facing. How are they making those dams? Are they threading different size,

diameter, trunks and sticks? Is it almost like they're weaving it or are they piling it and then kind of plugging in gaps? Kind of all of the above. It generally starts with just some burning of some mud at the base. It's not only sticks. So there's some anchoring things in there going on, like the mud, sometimes even rocks are rolled in and stones can be rolled in as part of like a supporting base. But you know, it is a very complex and remember this is in an aquatic environment where water is flowing around all the time. You don't have the ability to do this in dry times, but they use that to their advantage

as well. And then as it crests out of the water, you know, they do add a berm of mud, especially on that upstream edge where the water is pounding and they will use mud as well to kind of add a little shellac-like coating to it to keep it from just water getting through all those crannies of the sticks, so to speak. And with a pair of beavers, are they both working on it typically? Or do they ever get the yearlings in on it? Like, hey, you're gonna have to do this eventually.

Go grab me some mud. Yeah, very much all the above. I think it's not a gendered activity. It's, I think, both male and female contribute to dam building and the yearlings as well. It takes the kits a little bit of time to get comfortable to that point. When they're born, they actually don't have their waterproofing gland active yet and so they stay in the lodge for a little bit of a time. But after they get that waterproofing

gland active and they can be in the water effectively, they will also watch and participate and learn from the process as well. You mentioned, obviously, we're talking baby beavers. Sometimes a wildlife rehabber will have videos of baby beavers, and they're very fuzzy and very cute. I've seen videos of them taking all the towels or toys or items around them and trying to plug up a doorway with them? And I imagine that's got to be instinctual, but do they start looking for stuff to push around even when they're little, little?

I believe so. I'm not as familiar with those type of environments, but you know, play and just experimenting and using those tools is very important for so many animals. You look at bears or wolves or any other animals that are socially oriented like that, that watch each other, learn from each other, and do have play, that play and practicing with their future tools kind of as a very important instinct or way of entering their future work. And so I think that's that is a possibility.

This reminds me of when my nephew Mason wanted to play this video game. And it was just a video game about working at a diner, making sandwiches and burgers. And we're like, you know, Mason, one day you can do this for as long as you want. And they give you money for it. You're never to believe it it's called a job. But yeah that video I saw which was uploaded to YouTube in 2022 is titled Rescue Beaver Makes Christmas Dam in-house and it features a rescue beaver scooting down a nice hardwood floored hallway and stacking items including a flip-flop, a SpongeBob SquarePants plush toy, a small Christmas tree, a rag rug, a teddy bear, and a full roll of red shiny wrapping paper.

And at times this beaver pauses thoughtfully, just blinking, touching his tiny hands together, as you might when you have walked into the kitchen but you've forgotten why. Now, the uploader Holly Murakko writes in the video's description that, This beaver is being raised by wildlife rehabbers after being orphaned as a newborn. Her parents were killed and their dam and lodge destroyed. Beavers are classified as nuisance animals in many US states, Holly writes, and can be killed anytime. Beavers need to spend two years with their human rehabbers and have lots of opportunities

to practice instinctive behaviors. This beaver enjoys playing this game inside the house, but lives with the other orphaned beavers outside most of the time. Now, Holly, who works with the Woodside Wildlife Rescue in Mississippi, writes, this misunderstood and unique species needs lots of love. And I want to reach into this video and I want to pet this big rodent. I want to tell it it's doing a good job of stacking all of those objects together. I want to softly pat its big weird tail because I love it. LESLIE KENDRICK A question I feel like I have never gotten to ask someone who

gets to study and learn about beavers, but what's with their tail? How big is it? Is that all skin or is it hairy? It looks like a big cactus leaf kind of. Like what does that feel or look like? So definitely not hairy. It is more scaly. So the beaver tail is really a

fascinating part of their body in a lot of ways. For one, it's used a little bit as a rudder as they're swimming through the water and so it can help them steer a little bit. It's also important when they're propping up to chew down a tree or whatnot. And one of the most important functions of it though, it's a very important alarm system as well. You've probably either heard yourself or heard of beavers slapping their tail as they get alarmed by predator or potential threat or some other non-related beaver or some other concern in their environment. They will really have this impressive slap

action on the water. And it's it is kind of jolting and that is a warning to other beavers that there might be a threat around. And so they know how to respond to that. But the fourth one that's so important that the tail does is that it's a very much a heat or a thermoregulation and heat storage, energy storage organ. And so in the winter winter it actually that is the part of their body that becomes quite larger than it is in the summer they have a lot of body fat but they take on most of that in the winter and store it in their tail and so that is really important for one of the ways for them to keep warm in the winter. So the outside is very scaly, always black. And that has also been shown to have like a unique

signature. You can look at the tail and tell individual beavers by their tail details, just like we can with a fingerprint on a human. But then, you know, inside of the tail, it's just very thickly layered of white gelatinous kind of fat. And so that all that fat is what's really important to further heat storage in the winter. Well, I never thought of it this once in my life before, but are there bones in the tail? There've got to be. Is it like a dog tail, but just real flat and big? There is a central node of vertebra extending down through the tail that is in the center of it there, but it's more filled with more capillary-like blood vessels. And so there's

very lot of blood exchange in there that keeps it from freezing in those times and again serving that heat storage purpose. So other than that central area of bone going down the middle, it is entirely fat pretty much. I never realized that. I would have thought it was kind of like a mat of leather. We have so many questions from listeners that are very excited to have a Beaver expert on. Can I ask you some listener questions? Sure. Okay. They knew you were coming on. We've organized them as best we can into some categories. I thought this was a great question. Shannon O'Grady, Olivia Lester, Onyx Monolith, Rachel Prosteco, Ash Mickleright, Gemma, Shirley Lozenobo, Addie Capello, and Alexandra Rambeau. They want to know about their teeth. How are they so strong? Alexandra asked, has the strength of their teeth been measured?

What are they comparable to? Onyx wanted to know, is it comparable to like a tiger's and alligator's? What kind of jaw and teeth strength are they working with? And we will get to the root of that tooth question in a minute including why they are the color of a tangerine. But first we donate to a cause of theologist's choosing and this week the wonderful Rob Rich selected Tracker Certification North America which aims to create a future where ecological literacy is common, valued, and accessible to all. And they do this by providing education resources, support support and professional certification for all who aim to improve their skills as

wildlife trackers either recreationally or professionally and they explain that wildlife tracking is a field science which helps identify and interpret the signs of animal activity and wildlife observations amid a changing world. It also gives people a feeling of a meaningful connection with the landscapes So that was tracker certification North America with whom Rob works So thank you to our show sponsors for enabling that donation Okay, and folks submitting questions are patrons of ologies at patreon.com slash ologies You can join for a dollar and we're all eager to get back to the beaver questions.

What's with those teeth? Their teeth are supported by a skull that makes their teeth effective. And so they have a very flat-topped wide skull with these things we call zygomatic arches, which are what we call like cheekbones sometimes. And so when those are so widespreading, that allows for a lot of muscle attachment

coming down over the top of their cranium, attaching to the outside of those cheekbones and then going down into their mandible. And so all that complex muscle attachment does make for a lot of jaw strength. I can guarantee you it's quite strong to bring down to cottonwood or a large tree that is double the size of their body or something. And for patron Alexander Rambo, hi, hey, who asked, has the strength of their teeth been measured

and what are they comparable to? It's about 180 pounds per square inch, which is greater than the 150 or so of a human's, but it's a lot less than the 1,000 pounds per square inch that a Bengal tiger or a grizzly would use to snap your bones. Maybe it's because trees can't run away from beavers. They can kind of just succumb to their fate being savored bite by bite as slow as they want to. I don't know. I'm neither a tree nor a beaver.

But the teeth themselves, like all rodents, they're defined by ever-growing incisors. And so those are kind of the hallmark front teeth that we see. And then they've got a really robust set of molars as well. And so the molars are for grinding, masticating all that wood pulp down is important. But the incisors are what do the heavy work of the cutting. And so on the top ones, they're very orange on the outside. And so if you see a beaver's front teeth, you will see that orange that's enamel and it's colored that way because of some of the iron and the compounds that they eat in the wood that they're having. But that closes over a wider area on the bottom teeth that is called dentine. And so that wider area is softer, the enamel is harder.

When they rub against each other like that, it's a constantly sharpening chisel. And so the beaver's teeth are extremely sharp and constantly becoming more so. And if they don't have access to wood and don't keep gnawing and, you know, working on that, the teeth will keep growing and can become a, quite a dental hazard for them. So they do require wood for that purpose as well. But yeah, hard enamel outside, soft white kind of dentine on the inside for those incisors and then just a lot of continuous action to keep it sharp. So our exposed teeth, your exposed teeth, if you're listening to this, have hard enamel on

all sides, but touch the back of your teeth with your tongue. So in a beaver, that side is softer. So their teeth are self-sharpening because the harder marmalade-colored, enameled front surface of the bottom teeth wears down the soft backside of the uppers. So you've got yourself a whole set of mouth shivs taking down trees, ready to go. Now, according to the 2018 paper, a mathematical

model of beaver incisor tooth morphology, beavers front teeth, they just keep getting worn down and growing its whole life. They grow a total length of about six feet in its life, which I guess when you consider that they are an entire tool chest for building stuff and they are also your silverware. It's kind of a worthwhile metabolic investment for the beaver. Some folks asked about diet and I had never thought about this before because honestly I just figured they ate fish and frogs and stuff. But Eli, the fish guy, Moe, Prince Nocturnal, Amanda, Key Lime Pie, Shannon O'GrGrady Chimses, Sam and Katie and Jackie G wanted

to know in Sam and Katie's words, what do they eat? Do they eat any of the bark from the trees they use for their dams? Shannon O'Grady said, do they eat wood? Do they eat fish? And Jackie G says, do beavers really poop sawdust? No idea what a beaver eats, to be honest. Great. So they are definitely 100% vegan. No animal fare of note and maybe an insect or something will slip in occasionally, but there's very minimal to no record of them

relying on any animal food in their diet. And so in the spring and summer and warmer months, when the veg is succulent and there's a lot of herbaceous or non-woody plants out there, there's a number of wetland associated plants that they will eat. They will also use the roots of certain things like waterlily roots are sometimes important for beavers and just some of the waterlily, pad, leaves,

a lot of the succulent plants are not available, certainly year-round. So when they cut down a tree or cut down a branch or whatnot, they're not ingesting the entire thing. They're mostly after what we call the cambium, which is this thin layer of sugary cells where the tree is actively growing. And so, you know, most of what we call on a tree is actually dead cellulose material. It's not something that is nutritious in any way. But they will seek out that cambium layer just below the bark and below before you get into the real kind of dead wood of the tree. And so they will eat first and then use some for building

or some they're just used for feeding as well. A little bit of a mixed bag there. So yes, they eat trees, people. They eat trees. And for more on the different layers inside the tree, which is the most delicious, you can see our wonderful dendrology episode with J. Casey Clapp of the Completely Arbitrary podcast. We also have a sketchology episode

and that is about animal poop. Speaking of, what is a beaver log like? What's coming out of their wood chipper? J. Casey Clapp, Dendrology and Animal Poop It's about a golf ball-sized lump a lot of times. And I sometimes liken it to like shredded wheat or something. It takes that kind of character. And beavers are one of the rodents in addition to the lagomorphs, the rabbits and pikas and whatnot, that will re-ingest their own first poop. And so they will eat that to kind of extract a second round of nutrients out of it. This is a practice called

coprophagy. Delicious. extract a second round of nutrients out of it. This is a practice called coprofagy. Delicious. And so by the time it comes out that second time, it is very loose, easily disintegrated lump of sawdust-like shredded wheat. Most of the time it's deposited in water, and so it's very prone to disintegration quite quickly.

All we are is dust in the wind. All we are is beaver scat in a pond. Jacob Ellsbury says, I've never seen a beaver before, but I see their chew marks everywhere. Where do they go? Maya wants to know, are they nocturnal or did I make that up? Sidoni S wants to know, how can I increase my likelihood of seeing them? Great. So the chew marks are definitely something you want to look for. And if you don't see them and you know there are beavers there, just you want to be looking for like a cut on the branch at like a 45 degree angle. That's just because of how they kind of turn their head and then how the branch typically falls. It's kind of like this angled cut,

which is typical of all rodents really, but that sharp angled cut is really important. To see beavers, they are fascinating because they're at once very conspicuous. You can see their activity from aerial images, which is fascinating, but they're also kind of cryptic sometimes in that they do prefer to be active at nocturnal or crepuscular kinda dawn dusk kinda times sometimes so a great time is really just get out there first thing in the morning and you can kinda wake up with them as they're about to.

kind of in the lodge or their safe spot for the day and they'll typically come out in the more dusky hours as well. Those are kind of good times to try but beavers are not hard and fast about being nocturnal. You can find them during the day as well. Oh okay so but get up early. When it comes to them getting up versus sleeping, a lot of folks wanted to ask about their lodges and I did not know there was a difference really between a lodge and a dam. I don't know why I never thought about that. Megan Walker, Adam Foote, Katie Bauer, Stephanie Rosso, Amanda Lander, Hayley Kirby, Janetta Sore, Valerie Bertha, first-time quest asker Jean Genoir all wanted to know what the vibe is in a

beaver lodge. What's it like in there? Rebecca King wanted to know what the vibe is in a beaver lodge. What's it like in there? Rebecca King wanted to know, is their lodge really impenetrable by bears? But Gullnick Store asked, I was always enchanted by their homes as a kid, and I imagine they had beautifully furnished, cozy living rooms down there. But what are those dens like? And is it one big room?

Is it different little kind of nests off of one big space? Other folks wanted to know if they all kind of cohabitate with more than just their family or with other animals. Kind of what's happening in their lodges? Yeah, great question. So again, a lodge, you are correct. The lodge is separate from a dam. And so they're not ever living in the dam, but they are definitely using a variety of different lodge styles. Sometimes it can be like free standing in the water and sometimes it can be half affixed to like a bank. Sometimes it can just be a hole dug into a bank and they burrowed in that way.

But those are the places where they're living and sheltering over winter if it's in an environment where they need to do that. And they are not impenetrable, but they are very difficult to enter for a lot of predators. The ones that are made of sticks and mud are generally like the dam in a way, the sticks are kind of the lattice in and then the mud fills in a lot of the cracks. And so when that freezes in the winter, that can become pretty rock hard. And they do all the family is living in there together. One of my most fascinating parts of beaver existence is just that time in the winter of how they're doing that

under the ice, in the darkness, in cold environments, in wet environments. And it's just, we thought COVID was bad and isolation in a lot of ways. I mean, they are very much isolated in that time when they can't come back out above water surface for months at a time, potentially. It does have different layers, terraces. A lot of times you can see in them. If you ever are lucky enough to find an abandoned beaver lodge, sometimes I have been able to

enter into some of the shoots that go into a lot and you can see for yourself kind of what the size is like, but it can generally fit them together, generally some body warmth in there involved. But Casey McFarland, who's a great tracker and wildlife ecologist, he has a great video just showing one of those abandoned beaver lodges, what the interior is like. Okay, so Rob already established he's amazing. He sent me a link to Casey McFarland's video of an abandoned beaver dam. His whole YouTube channel is great, but this video is titled Inside a Beaver Lodge and Cross-Section of a Dam,

where he's able to peek inside an opening that was previously underwater. But let's go inside. This is pretty cool. So Casey scoots through some shallow water and into a clearing in this giant 10-foot mound of sticks. And inside we see what looks like a collapsed barn. There is timber of every diameter and hard packed mud and almost a ramp that leads to a platform toward

the back. But it's like a messy but very robust and well-built log cabin. I gotta say, it's pretty freaking cool to see inside a beaver lodge. Pretty freaking cool to see inside a beaver lodge. But in the lodges, you know, there can be muskrats, particularly are one that are often cohabitating with beavers and there are things like spiders, all sorts of invertebrates and insects that are certainly dwelling in there, sometimes amphibians as well. And then after the beavers leave, sometimes there can be other larger animals that use them as well. Sage Raymond is a colleague that has done really neat work up in Elk Island National Park in Alberta, just showing that coyotes and porcupines and

different animals are following after the beaver to use those where tree sources are limited. And so beavers are incredibly important throughout, again, throughout their temporal history of their wetland complexes is fascinating to me. Do beavers winter in their lodges or somewhere else? Do they hibernate? Joe Dauphiné and Megan Walker wanted to know about ice holes. Joe said that they had a natural history professor who said that beavers smash the ice with their head to create a path for them to swim and then they come up and breathe during the winter months. Other people say that doesn't happen, but yeah, in some winter behavior, how much sleeping versus how much activity?

Yes, to survive in the winter, most of the times they're relying on what we call a cache. And so it's like this stored up massive sticks that they will plug into the floor of the stream or pond or whatever water source they're on. And this is just this raft of sticks that they have like piled up and are in the bottom of the water source there. And so, that is their primary food during the winter. And they're going in and out of the lodge to access that. There is a certain time, you know, before freeze up where it's not quite frozen but it's not quite flowing water everywhere either. So it's kind of that delicate in between time and they will use their flat thick skulled

head to kind of bash up through thinner ice to do that and keep it open as long as they can but in my area there does come a point where there is no more of that bashing to be had and the ice just takes over. And so once that happens, they are fully locked under there for months at a time. So when it's so cold that a beaver's habitat is too iced over to even slam their head into, they stay just in their dry above land lodge, but they take that ramp down into the water, and the entrance is usually underwater. They swim underneath the ice sheets on the surface of the pond or the lake to get to their aquatic pantry of sticks to eat, and then

they swim back under the ice to the opening to their lodge. All of that when things look still on the surface. Winter for them means going so hard but looking so low-key. You can tell activity sometimes one of the fascinating signs to look for is these bubble trails that go in and out of water, or not water, air escaping from their interstitial spaces of their fur. You know, there's air trapped in there. And so when they go in and out of their lodge, all those bubbles are escaping from their fur and rising up to the surface of the ice.

And so before the ice gets all snowed over and kind of opaque, you can see those bubbles to see where the beavers have been coming and going. But after that, after the snow gets all over the ice, it is pretty much total darkness for potentially month at a time. Wow. Like the duck. You know, you mentioned the fur and I know that their fur has played a huge part too in their decline. And Catherine Vella and Gemma wanted to know, what does their fur feel like? Is it wiry or is it coarse?

Megan Walker wants to know, how does it not get soaked through? And first time question asker Rebecca Morrison asked, what is it about beavers and their fur that made them so popular for trapping and trade? Sam and Katie asked simply, and I imagine with a tremble in their voice, is it soft? And that thickness obviously must keep them nice and dry or at least warm during the winter. Can you tell us a little bit about the fur? So it is multi-layered as well. It's super dense. It's one of the most dense furs of animals on the planet,

really, right up there with sea otter and other semi-aquatic mammals that are spending a lot of time in really cold water in really cold northerly environments. And so it is dense. The layer on the outside that you would touch first is coarser. It's composed of more guard hairs. That's what waterproofing oils from their anal glands are constantly being lathered onto to keep them as sleek and waterproof as possible. But below that, you get more into some more downy dense layers that are even softer. And so that is what's kind of right up against their body. The fur is so dense. I've heard it once that I seem to recall is like 23,000 hairs per square centimeter. And

so you can imagine a square centimeter. That is not large, but that is a ton of hairs in that area. On your scalp, if you grow hair there, you've got about 150 hairs per square centimeter. Beavers have 150 times that, up to 23,000 hairs per square centimeter and they never wash it and it's shiny and for product they use an organic finishing oil sourced from their own ass sacks obsessed. And so that density is probably about 25% of the beaver's insulation through the winter and so even all that hair because they're in the water so much doesn't do all their needs to stay insulated and that's why

they rely so much on their fat stores as well to accommodate the rest of their insulation but it is incredibly dense fur and it is in the interior very soft. Yeah. Well, you mentioned that fatty tail and Nia squirrel or Nia squirrel first time question asker wanted to know if you've heard what the tail tasted like and if it's true that at one time this is a highly sought after delicacy and some other folks wanted to know beaver meat. This was an audio question from one Dr. Tegan Wall. I've heard that some places are trying to control their local beaver population by integrating the meat into their cuisine. So my question is, what does beaver taste like? And what

is the best way to eat a beaver? And have you ever tried it? That's my question. Got it. Brett McLean wanted to know what do they taste like? Do people eat them? I know they're hunted and trapped for fur, but is their meat source something that's actually still sought after? So that varies. You know, the tail, I think, was it was definitely relied on at certain times in certain people that live in climates where that was needed throughout human evolution. They've certainly relied on beaver tail as a fat source and beaver meat as well as

something that has a lot of importance in certain times of human evolution. So in a Harvard University article titled, Damned if They Do, one beaver conservationist and environmental engineer Jordan Kennedy explained that the beaver is considered one of the fundamental animals of creation in blackfeet culture. So when trappers started to expand west into what's now Montana, the blackfeet nations who revere the beaver were not typically willing to help them with their trapping within that territory.

And as a result, the animals weren't wiped out the way they were in much of North America. And resources at this website, blackfeetclimatechange.com describe ecological projects in homage of the beaver saying that beaver mimicry is this restoration technique that has been gaining popularity due to its cheap and easy and effective application. So there's this pilot project that they're working on exploring the use of beaver mimicry as a restoration and educational activity in the Blackfeet Nation. However, in some places where locals are still at war

with the beavers industriousness and their architecture, trapping is legal and folks enjoy not just the thick pelts but the meat too. And I found a 2022 article titled, How to Eat a Beaver. And it describes it similar to elk or bison with a deep woodsy character. And it reads that the meat is clean and sweet smelling, garnet colored and lean with a thick cap

of pristine fat under the skin. As for the other eating beaver, that's a whole different episode, and we have ones on sexology and gynecology as well as phallology for anyone feeling left out. Why are there so many beaver innuendos? I'm glad you asked, mousepaxton, pafka34, lorinauto, katimuri, gsharin, neg, hannahriddle, rebecca king, waldrind, and spencer aldridge. So we're all wondering, and I looked into this, right? So in the 1920s, a fad went around London and a 1922 Associated Press article bore the headline, English Lord tells

of Game of Beaver. And it contained some thrillingly Bridgerton sentences. I'll read them. Lord and Lady Mountbatten, she is one of England's prettiest and richest women and he is King George's cousin, decided today they would attend the World Series and compare it with London's new outdoor sport, beaver. Beaver, said Lord Mountbatten, is a street game anyone can play. You walk along with a friend. If you spot a chap with a beard, you call out Beaver. That counts 15 points. If it is a white beard, this is a polar beaver and counts 30. You score as in tennis. The winner makes the loser buy the drinks and it is driving beards

right out of London, Lord Mountain Patton says. Now there was another 1922 article in the Columbia, Missouri evening, Missouri evening, Missouri news, and it wrote that the unwisker have entered joyfully into the game and try to spot a beaver before their fellows. Okay, great game, got it. But then five years later, a 1927 book of poetry titled Immortalia,

an anthology of American ballads, sailor songs, cowboy songs, college songs, parodies, limericks, and other humorous verses in Dogger Elle contained a limerick. It read, there once was a lady named Eva who filled up a bath to receive her. She took off her clothes from her head to her toes. When a voice at the keyhole yelled beaver. So this book is still in print and one modern reviewer praised, this is a most fabulous collection of the smut our forefathers actually giggled about in taverns. So there you have it, from beaver to beaver to beaver. Bring that up at dinner or a New Year's party, or if there's a lull in the conversation,

or maybe bring it up at Easter. Since yes, Jen Ringne and Rowan Doyle, the Catholic Church does consider beavers to be fish, because they are aquatic. And for more on all of that, see our wonderful Capybara episode because if you're Catholic, those big rodents are also fish. Nothing makes sense. Sometimes I get very mad about it. Onward. Aveline is a first-time question asker and says they're from Canada and they've met a trapper who has an annual quota of beavers he must trap and says that without human control they would essentially wreck our world, the human and water

infrastructure. Other patrons, Rebecca Morrison, Will, Caitlin O'Malley, Mish the Fish, Jay Shay, and Tyler Williams asked about historical trappings and the fur trade causing this steep decline in beaver populations and the sustainability of current beaver trapping. Are we trying to preserve or cull numbers? What's happening? I can't really speak to what the first listener was talking about, about wrecking the world. I think that would be a little bit extreme.

You know, beavers like I said at the start here that for seven and a half million odd years, they've been on this continent shaping and transforming it in different ways. And we at one point had between 100 and 400 million beavers across North America. And in the course of about three centuries, you know, that in the about the 1600s through the early 1900s, you know, that window the about the 1600s through the early 1900s, you know, that windowed down to about a hundred thousand. That is up to 400 million beaver on the continent down to a hundred thousand. So over a few centuries of colonization, the percentage of beaver population remaining was one quarter of 1%. 99.75% of the beavers had been killed

right off. And so we are very lucky that they didn't become extinct or endangered, but their populations at this point are very patchy, dispersed, and in many places recovering. But beavers do not need us to keep them, kind of their populations in control. I mean, for all those years, they have had other predators that are doing that effectively and their own population saturation densities is an important regulation on that. And so I think a lot of times where the conflicts come into play is that we are

living in the same places that beavers also thrive. In other words, those low-lying, arable floodplains and good soil and all those things where there's good water access and things, those are the things people want too. And so there's a lot of times some tension there, but there's a lot of other non-lethal solutions to beaver coexistence as well. And so a lot of times when trapping, you know, when that's used as a solution to beaver problems, that's really just creating a void for new beavers to come in. Because again, if the habitat is good, future beavers will find that and be a part of that somehow.

Do they have more than one litter each year? It seems like just having two a year, they wouldn't be multiplying that fast, right? Or are they pretty prolific? No, you're right. Not as prolific as other rodents for sure. And only one litter per year and they generally are mating in late winter, January, February, and then having their kits in May, June around that time. So, yeah, mice and voles and other rodents that are much more prolific than beavers are. So, they're not that prolific really. You mentioned summer too and I had a really sweet question asked by a first-time question asker, Sarah Moore, who says that they have been listening to the show for years and have been saving their first question for the beavers episode.

And they said, a few years ago, I was camping in Colorado and I observed through binoculars, a group of beavers swimming around and playing with a duck. They say, I don't know how else to describe it, but they were all swimming around and doing little splashes and twirls and playing. Maybe I'm projecting, Sarah writes, but it looked like they were having so much fun. My question is, am I crazy? Do beavers play and is it possible they'd ever play with another species? Wow, great question and great observation. I think I do not have the answer to that, but I do know that beavers do play and I do

know that there are interspecies interactions, intraspecies interactions that we are constantly learning about. That's one of the areas that I'm most fascinated by is the beavers themselves, but also how they're shaping and interacting with all kinds of species, from the butterflies that are attracted to the sap on the branches they cut to other things they're swimming around. And so I can't say it's a regular thing that beavers and ducks are playing together, but I would not doubt that there's possibility for interaction there that I've not observed either. Kristi Sullivan was another listener who says, just a side note, that there's a beaver that lives in the creek that runs through their neighborhood and they say, we love him. It's

a highlight of our walks to see him swimming around with the ducks and geese. I guess maybe they do love ducks and geese. There you go. Go figure. I guess they do play around. Knowing that they do play, that you have seen that. Someone else, a first-time question, asker Fiona Blum, who's been waiting for this topic also, wondered if you had heard of the beaver-deceiver devices and are the beavers outsmarting us? It seems like they might be.

Can they be strategic like that? And have you heard of these beaver-deceiver devices? I have never heard of one. For sure. Yeah, they're really central to the work I do and I'm a part of Tendentially and directly. You know, Beaver, the Beaver Deceiver is kind of pioneered and patented by this guy named Skip Lyle, really brilliant guy based out of Vermont currently. But he grew up around just watching, you know, trapping take place and whatnot and was like sure there had to be a better way than just this, you know, remove and fill the void, just this never-ending cycle that

all kinds of road crews and private landowners and public agencies are dealing with. Okay, so I assumed that a beaver deceiver was some kind of ultrasonic technology that made beavers think that a culvert was haunted. But it turns out that Skip Lyle, a one-time construction worker, who later got his masters in wildlife management inspired by beavers, he invented a kind of fencing system

around these big drain pipes for streams that prevents the beavers from jamming up the culverts themselves. But it still lets the water flow under the road because beavers, they love a big pipe with water. They love it. Sometimes culverts, you know, those big pipes that go under a road to allow the stream through, you know, to a be, that is just like a ready-made dam with a hole in it. And so beavers are always plugging these culverts

with their sticks and mud and whatnot and causing a real headache for a lot of those people. And so the beaver deceiver is one way to exclude them from these high conflict areas like culverts. In its simplest definition, it's kind of like a fence that goes around the culvert to exclude that, but you want to do it at the right angle and the right distance and the right site specific ways

that it's effective. And so, Skipwile kind of pioneered that. But then there's also some like flow device things that are kind of like a pipe that we put through a dam that can siphon water through a dam from upstream to downstream. And so that allows people to kind of strike a compromise with the beaver in the sense that they can still stay there, they can still have their dam and still have all the benefits to their ecology there, but the water level can be

lowered just enough where it's not as much of a headache for other people that are worried about getting flooded out or that type of thing. And there are numerous entities growing up all around the country right now that are starting these. California is one of the biggest success stories right now. Here in Montana, we have a big one, the Montana Beaver Conflicts Resolution Project that I'm a little bit affiliated with. A lot of people had queries about parachutes. And some people might know this, some people might not, but Jenny Rounds and Andrea Levinson, Nikki Aki, Jen Scroll-Alvarez, Therese Aaron White, all wanted to know.

In Andrea's words, I'm begging you to ask about the parachute reintroduction efforts from the 40s and parachuting beavers. Was that ever a rabbit hole that you went down in terms of what's going on here? It was a real thing. It did happen in, I believe it was 1948. A lot of interesting things came back after World War II there. And one of the things is that we were really

infatuated with air travel and airplanes at the time. And so they were trying to figure out how to get one of the early solutions has always, to beaver conflict problems has always been like, oh, let's just move them somewhere else and do that. And that's still a kind of a gut response for anything from skunks to squirrels to, you know, anything else that we're having a conflict with. And so they tried on mules with that group of beavers in Idaho. This was outside of McCall, Idaho, and that was not

successful for the mules particularly. They were not very conducive to that. And so they got this idea to release them from the air. And you can find footage of it still, of it happening. On the shores of Payette Lake are crates full of beavers. Into the drop box, nearly ready for that flight back into the mountains. But they did release a number of beavers in these boxes that had straps that would open upon impact with the ground, but not before.

The plane makes a careful approach, ready for the drop. Now into the air and down they swing, down to the ground near a stream or a lake. I think it was a few dozen beavers that they launched out of the air into this kind of wilder area outside of McCall, Idaho and they did have one fatality but over you know a couple dozen beavers were dropped out of the sky for that purpose. So reintroduction has a really complex history in different iterations 60, 70 years later. We've realized today how important it is

to really relocate beavers as a family unit because as we've talked about already, they really have strong and complex social bonds. And so it's not effective to just take one beaver and just dump it out in a new place. You know, that beaver is most likely going to suffer and suffer immense risk as well from that relocation. But when relocated as a family unit, there is potential that they can do well. But again, it is a lot of risk for the animals still. Lyle So like an expensive cafe that suddenly pops up in your neighborhood full of gas station coffee,

a beaver can change the ecosystem of an area. And many people, Autumn Nikosin, Keegan Newman, Rowan Tree, Aver, Zink, Melissa DeWoskin, Olivia Rempel, Smiley Kylie, Maria Schoner, Julia, Stratford Abbert, Emily Totero, Amanda, Abby Lawson, Megan Radcliffe. Isopardi and Cool Next Door wondered about the beaver's role in engineering ecosystems as a keystone species, which is an ecological term for being the main character. There is no doubt that as a ketone species, they are just disproportionately impacting many more lives than we even are aware of

at this point. So just knowing what species are in your area and what are thriving and you can really get a pulse on that yourself too. Childfam and Shamonstrom, in child's words, they say, are beavers the answer? My husband is a fish biologist and feels that in terms of habitat restoration and protecting rivers and the species that live in them, beavers are the answer. Is this true? And are beavers also just generally the answer because they're great? And Shannon Strom wanted to know, should we think of them as nature's miracles against global warming? Is making sure that beavers are protected also protective for us?

Great question. Yeah. Then what's neat about beavers in addition to being keystone species for all these countless organisms that inhabit our environment around us is that beavers are keystone species for all kinds of ologists even. I mean, we've got entomologists and ornithologists and fluvial geomorphologists and all kinds of all just that are coming together to realize, hey, the beaver is like at the nexus of a lot of what we do. And so I think as a growing awareness, you know,

we had so much of the 20th century between the early 1910s or so through the late 1900s, where we, one, just didn't have the eyes to see beavers, and we didn't have the beavers actually physically weren't there. And so they were kind of out of sight, out of mind for a while. But one of the great thinkers that helped reverse that a lot was this guy named Robert Nyman. And he was a hydrologist and ecologist that really showed, wow, beavers had a huge impact on the North American continent. And he was one of the first people to just show, okay, if there were millions of beavers, what kind of water storage did that do?

What did that do differently than you know like a concrete dam you know that that were type of building? So he looked at a lot of those things and and that was in the late 80s early 1990s when he started doing that. And then another one of his students Michael Pollock really took that into the fish realm a little bit and looked at hey these coho salmon, they spend 18 months of their life in freshwater. When they are in freshwater for that long, the beaver pond is like a nursery for all their feeding and growth before they go out to sea in these Pacific coastal systems.

And so he did a lot of work with coho salmon, and he was actually one of the big guys launching the kind of beaver revolution in 2014 really is when a lot of people really started to take off with this of just like, yes, they are answering a lot of things for fish as well as other species. So 2014, Brangelina gets wed. Gwyneth Paltrow famously consciously uncouples the first season of True Detective premieres. It was a very big year for tight jeans, Iggy Azalea, and Ebola.

But it was also very memorable for the Beaver. And I am kind of wary myself of just like deification and demonism. We just swing so strongly between these poles of love and hate that I think, you know, one of my goals for working with beavers really to just integrate them into kind of all we do and just see them as another intrinsically valuable species that we can live with and among. And they can really do us a lot of good and we

can learn a lot from being with them as well. And how do beavers need more castorologists out there? Zoe Dunham, first-time quest jasker, Lisa Nyholes, Nehus, Andy Pepper, and Celia Stanislaw wanted to know, in Zoe's words, how does one get into researching beavers? If someone's interested in beaver ecology, what things they could study or what you do when you're working with tracking organizations? One of the great things is that there is no one way to be a beaver or a castorologist, you know, there are many different ways into this. And so if you're really into the water angle, the hydrology of it, you know, that's one thing. There's lots of opportunity for wildlife biologists and whatnot. I think I consider myself a lot of a field

ecologist and a wildlife tracker in a lot of ways, and that I am looking at the beaver as one among many of the species that I study. And I'm doing a lot of work to help kind of assess where habitat is good, where potential is good, and inventory and assess those connections. But just the best way to start getting into it is just to go out to just see if you can find beavers near where you live and just start watching, observing, and asking questions.

And beavers are one of the species that is not endangered today. And they don't, at this point, don't have any likelihood of becoming an endangered species, but they are unique and also that they are really accessible. They can live alongside us if we let them. And so I find that very hopeful in that there are species that so many people, wherever they are, can really learn from. Is there a part of working with beaver tracking that is either annoying or just the most difficult part? either annoying or just the most difficult part. So I do a lot of habitat and species inventories and assessments and kind of just trying to sense the life that's out there, so to speak. And one of the more complicated issues that

I find a lot of times is with invasive species. And as we mentioned, beavers are not an invasive species through anywhere in North America, but they can be woven in with species that were not here when they got here, but I'm thinking plants in particular, but reed canary grass, Japanese knotweed are some. And so when those enter in their areas, they can kind of complicate what the beaver is doing because those are not willow rich areas

with the nice woody shrubs that they need on. But at the same time, beavers can be sometimes a vector for helping those to spread inadvertently. And so they're just wrapped in this mess that we have made for them that I don't have answers all the time to how to deal with that. But in some areas, riparian invasive species can be pretty tricky with with beaver and it's a really sad thing to see them wrapped into.

Yeah. So invasive species, a bunch of weird weeds getting all tangled up in the ecology. And for more on how to eat some of those, the weeds, not the beavers, you can see our foraging ecology episode with Alexis Nelson, AKA Black Forager. Or to learn how to basket weave some of those weeds, you can see our recent Kennis Dramology episode with James Bomba.

Now, before I ask about the highlights of Rob's life, one thing is nagging at me, and I can't stop thinking about it. Also, when do people say beavers versus beaver? You know, that's a great question. I've asked that of others and myself as well. I kind of go back and forth. I don't have a hard way. I don't think there's an answer to that. Okay, I want to make sure I wasn't doing it wrong. But what about your favorite thing about beavers or beaver? Yeah, I mean, it might sound like it's generalizing too much, but just the sheer feat of

existence is really amazing to me. And in the fact that I mean that we talked about winter already and how they survive in these really cold is just a very fascinating thing to me. The fact that again they they have winnowed down from 33 different genera of beavers to this one genus that survives today and they made it through the gauntlet of the fur trade and all these things and they are still here persisting and enduring and and doing what they do. It blows my mind. There haven't been other animals that have really made it through those type of changes throughout their life history, which is pretty amazing to me.

Thank you so much for just telling us everything you know about beaver and beavers. I already loved them and not just because they're cute I think they're just cool in general. So thank you so much for everything you do and for talking to me. Yes, thank you. So ask beaver geniuses deep and shallow questions and may fortune find you in the midst of these critters. They are majestic.

Thank you again so much to Rob Rich for talking to me. So worth the wait and to find out more about the tracker certification North America, you can see the link in the show notes as well as a link to our website at alleyward.com slash ologies slash castor ology, which has so many more links to research and other resources that we mentioned in the show. We are at ologies on Instagram and now blue sky. I'm at alleyward on both. We also have shorter kid friendly versions of ol Ology's classic episodes, in case you need G-rated ones. They're available anywhere where you get podcasts.

You can just subscribe to Smology's and look for the new green logo. We also linked in the show notes. Ology's merch is available at ologysmerch.com and to join the Patreon, head to patreon.com slash ology's. Thank you to Erin Talbot for adminning the Ology's podcast Facebook group. Thank you, Erin Talbot for adminning the ologies podcast Facebook group. Thank you, Aveline Malik for making

our professional transcripts. Kelly Ardweier makes the website. Scheduling producer Noelle Dilworth worked for two and a half years to get this one on the books. Susan Hale managing directs the whole show. Jake Chafee edits beautifully and joining him just as busy and chill as a beaver

is lead editor, Mercedes Maitland of Maitland Audio. Nick Thorburn wrote the theme music and if you stick around till after the credits, thank you for listening. Here's a secret that the other people don't know. So in 2017 I was toying with this format for Ologies and I was trying to figure out just what the show would be and I had a few trusted friends listen to some early drafts of episodes and one Dr. Tegan Wall, who was a neuroscientist and a screenwriter, she took a listen and one suggestion that she still maintains is that the show should have a cold open. That little stinger at the top with an excerpt as like a sound bite sample. And I've never done it until this episode, and so I'm doing it in honor of her.

So you can let me know on Patreon if you like it. Tiggs, you can just text me about it. But meanwhile, I had the best cookies of my life at our friend Aubrey and Myles' house, and I begged for the recipe, and Aubrey sent me a picture of a handwritten index card, like grandma style, with a, I think a family recipe, and I'm gonna give it to you now. Don't write it down if you're driving.

Wait until after. You can come back later, rewind, find this, then jot it down. Okay, so these are thumbprint cookies with like jam in the center, but the cookie is so soft. There's cream cheese in the dough. I ate like 10 of them. Okay, these are cream cheese cookies, ready?

Two cups unsalted butter, eight ounces cream cheese, two cups of sugar, two egg yolks, one teaspoon of vanilla, two teaspoons of salt, five cups of flour. Do the wet stuff, you add the dry stuff, chill overnight, and then you roll into balls and you indent and you put some jam in the middle, bake at 400, eight to 10 minutes. Honestly, the best cookies I've ever had.

Please enjoy. Be safe, happy holidays, be kind to beavers. Bye bye. Hackadermatology, homology, cryptozoology, lithology, and technology. Happy holidays. Be kind to beavers. Bye bye. Nice beaver. Thank you. I just had it stuffed.