Ologies with Alie Ward - Coronasode: All (Washed) Hands on Deck -- How to Help Yourself & Others Right Now with Dr. Michael F. Wells

Episode Date: March 23, 2020

CALLING ALL OLOGISTS: If you’re a scientist who wants to help with the COVID-19 pandemic -- boy howdy have we got an episode for you. Dr. Mike Wells, a neurobiologist at Harvard University and the Broad Institute, knows we need tests in the U.S. and is coralling all the wonderful scientists willing to pitch in. He explains how testing for the SARS CoV-2 virus works, what other countries are doing, and even the book that inspired him to pursue science. Also: if you’re feeling helpless and want to help, Patrons give dozens of ideas on how to help those around you, and where to go for resources if you need help, and how to take care of your own mental and physical well being during an uncertain time. Also the album I’m listening to too much and how much toilet paper I have left. To sign up -- or for access to the database -- click here: https://tinyurl.com/COVID19SciVolunteers Follow Dr. Michael F. Wells at Twitter.com/mfwells5 A donation went to: LAFoodBank.org More health info at EndCoronavirus.org Sign the petition for nurses’ protection Links to more articles + kid-friendly shows at alieward.com/ologies/handsondeck Have extra masks? Try the website www.mask-match.com Brainchildshow.com 100 Humans on Netflix Transcripts & bleeped episodes at: alieward.com/ologies-extras Become a patron of Ologies for as little as a buck a month: www.Patreon.com/ologies OlogiesMerch.com has hats, shirts, pins, totes and STIIIICKERS! Follow twitter.com/ologies or instagram.com/ologies Follow twitter.com/AlieWard or instagram.com/AlieWard Sound editing by Jarrett Sleeper of MindJam Media & Steven Ray Morris Theme song by Nick ThorburnSupport the show: http://Patreon.com/ologies

Oh, hey, it's your fig tree, just waiting in the yard to see how many leaves it has to sprout and unfurl before you stop and say, oh, look, the fig tree has leaves. Allie Ward, back with a bonus episode of oligies. Did I think I was making this episode two days ago? No, no, but sometimes you see a tweet and you say, boy, howdy, let's get this human on the horn, pass the mic and spread the word. So the March 10th virology episode was recorded on March 5th. A lot has happened in the last few weeks.

I don't know if you've noticed. So I added an update before the intro to that episode. I'm going to read it here too. Virologist Dr. Shannon Bennett wrote me on March 17th and let me know, quote, daily new confirmed cases are growing in number exponentially here in the US. And that is in light of one of the lowest per capita testing rates worldwide by country, 26 tests per million people as of March 10th.

That means that even though we all recognize that confirmed cases are just the tip of the iceberg of the actual infections in the US, our iceberg is particularly submerged. In short, she said, it's time to take social distancing seriously and flatten the curve. So that was an update from Dr. Shannon Bennett of the virology episode. So in light of the lack of testing, especially comparatively, plenty of us here

in Great Old America are asking, where are the tests? How can we get the tests? So one guy, a neurobiologist and postdoctoral fellow at Harvard's Department of Stem Cell and Regenerative Biology and the Broad Institute said, well, shoot, we have so manyologists out there. Let's just see who wants to help. I'm paraphrasing. And he put together a Google form just as a private citizen working completely

independently, not as an employee of Harvard or the Broad. And within hours had an army of scientists who are ready to combat SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes COVID-19, which we covered in virology. In case that confuses you, I get it. So if only we can use the strengths we have and come together, it will be in a much better place. So rather than just retweeting the URL to the Google form, I thought we'd make an episode out there for anyone who wants to help, but just doesn't know what to do.

And for anyone out there who could use some advice on taking care of their own mental health during this weird time, which we probably all could use. So as Disasterologist Dr. Sam Montano said in her episode, people are much more pro-social in a crisis than we expect them to be. That's great news. And in Mr. Rogers words, always look for the helpers. So let's chat with the dude with the Google form about how to get involved and

hopefully signal boosting this will help get this database into the hands of government agencies that will use it and put it into action. So this is a bonus episode. So it's ad free, but a donation was still made to the L.A. food bank, and I would not be able to do those things or make the donations to causes each week without the folks at patreon.com slash allergies. So while I was at it, I asked patrons how people have been helping them, how they are helping family and friends and maybe strangers and for some of their

self-help suggestions, which I'm all ears for. And just a heads up. So this episode has fewer asides than usual, just for a much quicker turnaround. And it's more of a raw conversation than most episodes. Also, the first 10 minutes or so, I asked thisologist a bunch of questions about his backstory because he's really amazing and relatable and inspiring. And it's just really interesting. And I want us all to remember that scientists and neighbors and healthcare

workers and grocery stockers are all people with these incredible stories. And the more we remember that, the less alone we feel. So if you need some updates on this illness and a healthy dose of hope, you have come to the right place. So hunker down, get cozy and prepare to feel inspired by the folks out there who have our backs, including de facto community organizer working from an extra desk in his apartment and professional neurobiologist Dr. Michael F. Wells.

So hi, thanks for talking to me. Sure, of course. You've had a busy couple of days. Yes, I've not slept much. I'm supposed to be doing other work as a scientist, but I've been focusing on this pretty much nonstop since Wednesday. And can you tell me a little bit about what your work at Harvard entails? Yes.

Yeah, so I'm a poet, I'm a writer, I'm a writer, I'm a writer. So I'm a postdoctoral researcher, which means I already have my PhD, but I don't yet have my own lab. And so I work for a guy named Kevin Egan at Harvard in the stem cell department. And so what I do is I take human stem cells and I convert them to human brain cells in a dish. Yeah, and if you might wonder where those stem cells came from, we can actually harvest or we can actually take cells, say from your blood or your hair.

Some have started taking it from urine and we can convert those cells into stem cells and then we can take those cells and make them into many, many different cell types so that we can study diseases in these cell types that are actually impacted by that disease. And so the disease I've been studying for the past four years or so has been the Zika virus infection. So I take stem cells and I make them into fetal brain cells or at least cells that resemble fetal brain cells.

So Mike recently made a discovery about how one's genetic background influences your susceptibility to Zika infection. Like no big deal, just did that. I recently repotted a plant I've kept alive for a year or so. I get it. But prior to his work at Harvard, he got his bachelors in biology at Notre Dame and his PhD from Duke in neurobiology, working with mouse models, studying the genetics of ADHD and autism.

So we're all just a bunch of lumpy brains, helping other lumpy brains sometimes via mice, just like one of the mechanisms from the gene that leads to the disordered behaviors and you actually see some of these behaviors in a mouse. Of course, it's a mouse model. It's not perfect. And that's partially why when I moved to Harvard for my postdoc in 2015, that I switched to studying human cells in a dish. I was much more interested in studying the human condition.

And I also became quite severely allergic to mice over the course of the year. So if you work with mice for eight hours a day for six years, you know, they will get their revenge on you if you don't properly cover your mouth and make sure you're not inhaling all there. Irritants that they release. I can taste it. So yeah, I can still work with mice. It just has to be quite limited interaction with them.

Oh, my gosh. Now, did you have a microscope when you were kid? When did you start getting into science? It's a very good question. There's a book, the first book on my bookshelf top of the bookshelf far left. It's called The Power of Believing in Yourself. And it's written by a guy whose name, I believe, is Spencer Johnson. He wrote this book about Louis Pasteur.

And I read this when I was it's the first book I ever remember ever reading. But it's about how Louis Pasteur created the treatment for rabies. So we now have if you get rabies, it's no longer death sentence because of Louis Pasteur's discovery. And so I remember being five or six years old and just thinking like, oh, wow, this one guy in a lab like dramatically changed the course of human history by eliminating this disease from the list of things that could wipe us out if it spreads. And so that influenced me at a pretty young age.

You know, I didn't really come from a family that had a lot. And so it was mainly through books that I developed this interest in science. And so by the time I was in high school, I was more interested in biology. And trying to understand how the human body works. And I thought I was going to go to college to prepare for medical school. But I quickly realized that I can't see someone having their blood drawn. And even talking about it, you can hear my voice slowing down. And I'm trying not to pass out.

And I realized that if I can't see a blood draw, yeah, I probably shouldn't go into a field in which that is something that you will see commonly, right? Even if you're not doing it yourself, you will see it. So I remember I went home for Thanksgiving break, close to sophomore at the University of Notre Dame. And this is kind of when I realized I don't want to be a medical doctor. And so I went home and on my bed was a

National Geographic magazine and on the cover was a guy with all these electrodes on his head. And so I was like, OK, I'll do that. I'll be a neuroscientist. And that's pretty much all the thought that I put into it. It was just something that I just I saw picture. OK, I'll do that. And so I think you're seeing a theme here that I'm easily influenced by media. So who knew that Sycom could change minds in so few steps just from it?

It is it is a very, very powerful medium. And I can't stress enough how important it is for for people growing up in low income houses, like what I how I grew up. I didn't know a scientist until I got to college and even then I didn't quite understand what they were doing. A lot of people growing up the way I did, they're just not exposed to these things and don't even know, one, that it's an option and two, they don't know what the job entails. And if they did know those two things, they don't necessarily know

the third factor, which is how to get into this system. You know, academia is very competitive and there's a lot of internal challenges you have just feeling like you belong. I'm actually Salvadoran, my mom's from El Salvador. And I actually never felt like I mean, you could see in this Skype, I'm not that dark skinned, like if all my family is much tanner than me, if I never felt like I was being held back because I was a minority, however, I did feel like I was being held back because I did not come from a house that had a lot, a lot of money

or power, whatever you how you refer to it. And that becomes very challenging in academia because you are working with people whose parents were biochemists or, you know, mathematicians and, you know, they might come from different from backgrounds that made it a little easier for them to get to where they are and to feel comfortable where they are. And I think that is you hear this term a lot in posture syndrome in academia. And it comes from people not feeling that they belong because they see what are the backgrounds of those around them in academia.

And I do think that the most powerful way of overcoming that and getting our field beyond that is through early science communication. That said, one kid science show I did for Netflix is called Brain Child, and they have free lesson plans and curricula. If anyone is homeschooling the kiddos now and needs some resources, you can go to brainchildshow.com to download them for free. I'll link that in the show notes in case it helps. Also, my science show Innovation Nation with Moracas on Saturday mornings on CBS.

And my other show did I mention invention is on Saturdays on the CW. Also, Mission Unstoppable, another great science show for kids, particularly girls, I don't work on it, but it's very good. Also, my friend Emily Grasley makes great YouTube videos on her channel Brain Scoop. Dr. Joe Hansen hosts It's OK to Be Smart for PBS. I love his stuff. My friend Derek Muller hosts Veritasium videos on YouTube. Lepidopterology guest Phil Torres has his Jungle Diaries YouTube series. I'm going to make a list of links in case you need kid-friendly things to watch

that don't have swear words, which I'm trying very hard to avoid in this episode so that you pass it around to other people and we fix this problem. OK, let's get back to Mike. So he has a manuscript he needs to be working on right now, but he's working from a small office at home to become this community organizer with this project, and he has a little experience in this, having worked on the Obama campaign in 2008. But he did have to cut the job short halfway through his six week stint because

I'm going to let him explain. I mistakenly thought that I had a limited phone plan. And I didn't. So. I remember I was in the field office and I got a call from my mom and she was just like, Mike, we just got a six hundred fifty dollar bill from Verizon. Did you make X number of calls and like, yeah, but we shouldn't matter, right? She's like, no, we got rid of that option like six months ago.

So I was trying to save up for grad school at that point. So I had to quit and I ended up working in a daycare center for the rest of summer, teaching kids science. Oh, my gosh. That's I guess just consider that a donation to the campaign, right? Yes. Oh, God, that's pretty rough. Tell me a little bit about what you're organizing. Do you have a name for it yet? No, I mean, the the form is called COVID-19 pandemic scientists volunteer form.

And essentially what I have done is this past Wednesday. So it was whatever that March 18th. Yes, March 18th. It was the last day that my lab was going to be open for the next two months. I again, I've been studying Zika virus for four years now. So I have all the skills necessary to perform the COVID-19 testing. And so I was really hoping that at some point as places start ramping up their testing capacities,

that I would have the opportunity to start working at a facility to just help out in the efforts. And so I'm pretty active on Twitter and I've seen that there were these sign up forms in Seattle and in the Bay Area. I later learned there's one that was being widely distributed for the New York area. But what I hadn't seen yet was something for Boston and I hadn't seen anything that was trying to aggregate all these different sources into one central location.

And so essentially what I did was I created a form in which I'm asking for contact information from scientists, asking them if they have experience in certain techniques that are required for testing and then ask them if they have any sort of reagents or kits or equipment that they can donate to these testing facilities. So now remember, he just started this on Wednesday and I talked to him yesterday, which was Friday evening. So that was about 50 hours ago. And we now have three thousand three hundred and sixty eight respondents.

Oh, my God. Yeah, so these scientists were very, very eager to help out. Like we're doing our, you know, again, a lot of us are at home right now. We have the skills. We just need to be added to the team. And I do want to say something about how this spread so quickly. It's primarily I need to give some credit to a few people. One is my friend, Justin Beretta, who is in the band Glitch Mob.

They're like a EDM group. One is a musician based in L.A. Her name is Elohim and another is my friend, Michael Angelakis, who's the lead singer of the band Passion Pit. What I did was after I created the form, I texted them and said, I'm about to post something on Twitter. Can you please retweet it? So it is their audience and you know, they have thousands and thousands of

followers and then Justin actually then reached out to a man by the name of Tim Ferris, who has one point six million followers. So once that happened, he retweeted it and drew Kerry, a comedian that I've adored since I was a child. He retweeted it. So it reached a very, very wide audience. And then you, of course, retweeted my efforts a few hours later. So it reached a very wide audience in a very short period of time.

And I think that's what really helped accelerate this, because then once those scientists started filling out the form, they then sent it to other scientists that they know. So essentially your your viral form went viral also? Yes, which is like wonderful when it's something good, but also a terrifying display of how quickly something can spread. How quickly? I mean, as I'm watching this form being filled out in real time, you do see, I mean, it's been exponentials in 40 hours.

We went from 30 responses in the first 20 minutes to, you know, I think by last night there's about 1500 and now there's an additional few thousand today. So it is growing exponentially. Obviously it's going to plateau once all the scientists do have these abilities are reached and they felt the form of their willing to. So it will hit a plateau. Hopefully that hopefully doesn't happen until it's reached as wide an audience as possible.

As of my recording these sites on Saturday night, he now has four thousand seven hundred and sixty three scientists from forty nine states, Puerto Rico and Guam. And of course, I asked him which state was lagging. I see you forty nine and I guessed Idaho. I'm sorry, Idaho, but no, you ready for this? It's Wyoming, Wyoming. Come on, someone from Wyoming.

Just pull up the freaking caboose. The tiny URL for the Google form, by the way, is tiny URL dot com slash covid-19 psi volunteers and no, you do not have to write that down. It's linked in the show notes. Wyoming. Good luck. We're all counting on you. And now let's talk a little bit about how testing is done. I mean, you work with Zika, so you're familiar with viruses that are zoonotic in

origin. How how do you even test for covid-19 and why isn't it happening? So those are two different issues, in my opinion. So to answer your first question, how the basic test for the presence of a virus is you get the sample and that could be spit. It could be these nose swabs that you're seeing on TikTok that look extremely painful to put in that thing way back there. But what they're trying to do is they're trying to get a sample from your body that either does or does not have the virus.

And these are areas that if you did have the virus, it's likely the virus be present in your spit. It's likely to be present in the back of your nose. The reason for this virus in particular, it tends to infect the respiratory system. We would take that sample. And in this case, it's RNA. This is an RNA virus. So you may be aware of what DNA is.

I think most people know what DNA is. What RNA is what the DNA becomes when you're trying to make a protein, you have this intermediate step of RNA. So this virus is just an RNA virus. That's pretty much what is being transferred for one person to another. It's a piece of RNA that is encapsulated by an envelope. And this is why when you wash your hands, you kill the virus because that envelope gets degraded by soap.

And RNA does not last a very long time without that envelope. So this is why it's so important to wash your hands. So essentially, what happens is we then will take that sample, extract the RNA, and that's a very key step that I'll get to in a second. We extract the RNA, we convert it back to DNA, and then we run what's called a polymerase chain reaction. So you might have heard of PCR. Someone won a Nobel Prize in 1993, I believe, for creating this machine that amplifies DNA.

OK, so I wasn't going to look this up. This was supposed to be a mini-sode, but you know what? We're in this and, frankly, a lot of us have nowhere to be. So I googled who the winner of the 1993 Nobel Prize in chemistry was. And it turns out it was the best decision I've made so far in quarantine since buying several tins of smoked trout. So according to his sadly recent 2019 obituary in the LA Times, Kerry B. Molyse was an LSD dropping climate change, denying astrology, believing,

surfing, Nobel Prize winning chemist who was both widely respected and equally criticized for his controversial views. So what did he do? All right, his history changing process involves taking a segment of DNA and heating it until it unzips and then looking for a specific segment of DNA and then zipping it back together via an enzyme or polymerase with free floating building blocks, the AGTC nucleotides, and then doing a chain reaction of that so that each copy makes two copies and so on and so on.

And you're able to replicate a ton of that segment. So a polymerase chain reaction, PCR. Now, Molyse came up with the idea while driving down the highway. Just came up with this idea that changed the world. He once said, quote, I think really good science doesn't come from hard work. The striking advances come from the people on the fringes being playful. He playfully said from the fringes. Side note, he was drunk the morning he found out that he won the Nobel Prize

alongside chemist Michael Smith, who was probably not drunk. Molyse then celebrated the win by going surfing. I am trying so hard not to swear during this episode. So, hmm, hot dog. What a life. Maybe let that be a lesson to just chill out while in isolation. Don't work so hard. Play horseshoes. Learn an Irish jig. Just get high and eat some raw biscuit dough.

Read a novel you don't think you deserve to. Either way, you're avoiding the virus. You might even end up winning a Nobel Prize. Just don't surf drunk, I guess. Now, what if you're sick? How does the test work? So let's say you have the virus in your system. We take a spit sample, we then extract the RNA from your spit sample.

And when we run the PCR, it'll tell us if that RNA was actually present in the spit. And the way it's usually done is with a machine that's more quantitative than just a standard PCR. And what this does is it incorporates a green dye into the DNA as it's being replicated, as it's being amplified by the system. And then after every cycle that it runs, it will take a picture and it will measure the intensity of that dye and you usually use green. So it'll tell you how much green fluorescence is present in this system in your well.

And then you can use that green readout as a way of measuring the amount of viral RNA present in the sample. So that is the basic testing system that is in play right now. It's looking at whether or not viral RNA is present in the sample. Having said that, as a result of the national emergency being declared, there are now loosened restrictions on the types of protocols you can use to test for COVID-19. And so some universities have found ways that are much faster than the thing I

just described to you. And so they are in the process of getting approval through the FDA, through their state and local authorities to use that as a test in their community. And so I do anticipate that we're going to actually learn a lot about ways, different ways to test for these viruses to make these tests more efficient because the need is so clear right now for us to do this very quickly. And safely and accurately. So that's what's going on right now at the testing.

If you want to know why there are no tests going on, that's a million dollar question. There are, but they're not where they need to be. Yeah. That's primarily from what I've heard an issue with the lack of reagents. So that RNA extraction step, which is for most of the calls, it's the first step. Those are usually made available through a kit. And the most commonly used is this kit from a company called ChiaGen,

which is based in Europe. There are very, very few ChiaGen kits available for these labs. And so one of the things we include, include in the database was a question that we asked all the scientists, do you have RNA extraction kits that you're willing to donate from your lab to a facility that is currently testing and in need of those types of kits? Lawmakers, holler. Are you in government?

Could you use a list of scientists willing to chip in and help out? Well, here it is free for the taking. So let's speed this business up. Get some swabs of some Nass holes stat. And why do some tests I'm hearing take like five days to get back right now? Is that because of the availability of the reagents? I think it's available to the regents as well as the backlog of tests that need to be done. So I'm not actually working in these facilities, so I can't speak directly to that.

But if you don't have enough kits or you don't have the capacity to do so, some of these places can only run anywhere from. I'm seeing some that can only run 20 kits a day or 20 samples a day. And so if there are 100 people in line, then it could take up to five days to get your results. And that's clearly not good. That is not going to be helpful if you look at what happened in Wuhan and how they eventually got control over the virus, the point where they're now having very few new cases each day.

Part of it was because of a very aggressive testing system they put in place in which they would actually go door to door and determine if someone is showing symptoms. And if they were showing symptoms, they would administer a test right there and get them the results back as quickly as possible. We are nowhere near that in this country. And, you know, even with that aggressive approach that they took, which also included something called centralized quarantining, even with that aggressive approach, they still are not looking at a coronavirus

free environment until mid-May, and they had the outbreak start in January. So even then it's taking them five months to get rid of this thing. We are all here just now in the early stages of this and we are not being as aggressive as them. So it's likely this is going to last longer than what took place in China. And this is a stupid question. But why were they able to do those door to door tests? How did they have such an availability of kits? Is that partly from the SARS infrastructure from 2002?

It's possible. I don't know the exact answer of that question. They might not even have made that information available. I'm not entirely for sure. I know that for Wuhan, they had a lot of scientists and doctors from outside the Wuhan region aggregate into Wuhan to help out with this. It's also possible they had their own manufacturing facilities to make the RNA extraction kits. And it's not just kaijin that makes these kits.

There's a lot of them out there, which is something that kind of makes it a little more challenging as well, because different facilities in the United States are using different kits. They're using different QPCR reagents, different machines. All it's kind of all over the place right now. There's no real agreed upon protocol. And what types of scientists can help pitch in? So this is what's really nice about this.

And this is why we have now three thousand three hundred eighty seven respondents is the fact that these techniques are things that most life scientists learn very early on in their careers are an extraction is a first step of many, many different procedures you run at any given time in a laboratory. PCR is a hallmark procedure for so many things we do. So for I mean, PCR was the first thing I learned in lab when I doing a rotation at Duke University, the absolute first thing I learned was PCR. And so, you know, this is not something where you need a PhD to do.

There are technicians who show up who are undergraduates at a university who immediately learn these things. I had a high school student in our lab two or three years ago who was able to run QPCR, you know, in his first week. Let's say that we can go ahead and do this like it's go time. How do they make sure if they're voluntarily doing this that they're not getting contaminated by samples or they're keeping their own health in check? Yeah, that's a very important question.

And that's why a lot of these facilities will what I've been hearing, they're actually training these people. There are certain certifications you need to receive in order to work with potentially infectious samples. And so I've seen that in some place they're just doing one or two day training sessions to get everybody up to speed. So when they go in there, they're not, you know, putting themselves at risk. So that is something that each facility is presumably going to take care of.

That is something that's heavily regulated for good reason. So there if it's much more regulated, they are much more stringent with certain aspects of the procedures. And so, you know, this is why, again, you don't want to hire anybody off the street to do this, ideally pick someone from this 3,392 person who already has experience in these techniques and will be able to pick it up very, very quickly. And now what about access to some labs in these kinds of extenuating circumstances if you're working with very few individuals in a lab,

you're keeping six and a half feet apart, nobody's slobbering on anyone. Is it OK to sneak back into your lab and do a little punk rock testing? So that's a good question. To be clear, not all labs around the country have closed. Harvard was one of the first I think they've actually followed suit from University of Washington and Stanford. So the West Coast kind of started this idea of trying to de-densify laboratory settings, the rest of the country that does have their labs shut down,

including Harvard, what essentially we're doing is there is a very, very small number of people who do have access to a lab and it's very limited. So I was chosen from my lab to be that person. I'll be going in tomorrow. I can be there for three hours. I can feed this specific set of cells and then I have to leave. And they regulate all this because most of these buildings have key cards so they can they can toggle my access and I couldn't, for example, just walk in right now

because I'm not authorized to go in on this date. So a lot of labs right now are authorizing certain people for specific times that way they can avoid close contact or running into each other. Now, Mike agrees with those tactics. He thinks we have to stamp the virus out as quickly as possible so it's not endemic or just kind of loitering around as part of a new way of life until there's a vaccine. And are there any vaccine researchers or scientists that have signed up to say, like, put me in, coach?

So I did include on this form a option to select whether or not you have any experience in vaccine development. And the reason I added that is because I didn't want this list to just be useful for near term testing. I wanted it to be available to anybody who may need it in six months from now in order to identify people who might be able to help with later stages of fighting this virus. Having said that, there are a lot of companies and a lot of organizations building the infrastructure for vaccines.

And they are there, I'm sure you're aware that earlier this week, they've already started testing this in Seattle. One of the vaccines is available. Hopefully it works. I will say that vaccine development is very tricky. There are viruses out there that we still don't have good vaccines for. So, you know, there's no vaccine for Zika, even though there's a lot of interest in developing that.

And so when Dr. Fauci says that we are 12 to 18 months away from a vaccine, I think that's accurate because it's not just developing the vaccine. It's testing it, making sure it's safe and effective. And then it's mass producing it. Right. And, you know, you work with mosquito-borne illnesses you have in the past. Zika, what is the hope with the anti-malarial drugs fighting a virus? I don't. So like chloroquine, I think I've been hearing. So I don't really know.

I mean, chloroquine seems to be one of those magic drugs that works on everything in the laboratory, you know, it works at killing everything in the laboratory. I have seen many different theories out there and some that have more support than others experimentally about drugs that can work. In fact, a paper just got published while I was waiting for your call in Cell. And this, you know, Cell is a huge journal and there's certain clinically approved protease that helps cleave parts of the viral envelope and in doing so

prevents the attachment of the virus to lung cells. But, you know, I could also list 100 drugs that will probably work on Zika. There is a bottleneck from what we find in the laboratory and what actually makes it to patients. And there's a lot of things that can stop that from happening. It could be that the drug, you know, might work in a dish. But the second you put into human being that goes to their liver, it stops working. It could be that it actually causes more harm than good. There are some things that we look at in addition.

It says, hey, this looks like this drug will reduce infection and it ends up makes it makes you more prone to infection or makes you more susceptible to a bacteria or something. So there are all these different aspects of it that are very hard to predict. Chloroquine has been around for a long time. It'd be nice if it worked for this, but I still think, you know, before doctors in the United States start prescribing it, there's probably other hurdles that need to be passed before they can start doing that.

Yeah. Side note. I looked into this and the president has been all caps tweeting about this anti-malarial that's also used for rheumatoidal and autoimmune conditions like lupus, but according to an article in Slate, in his tweet, lavishing hope on the treatment, Trump cited a scientific journal that only studied 20 patients and was not a controlled clinical trial. But regardless, people are clamoring now to get this drug with several reported accidental overdoses on it while also leaving the patients who actually

need it for autoimmune disorders not able to find it. What is my point? It's cool your jets. Let's all cooler jets on this. So far, it's in the flim flam bucket until there's some actual proof of efficacy. Right now, what people need is to isolate, not get or spread the virus and for people who may be carriers, access to actual testing. And now, what if people have items that they can donate from their lab?

What kind of things are you guys looking for? So from what I've been hearing is the most precious thing are these viral RNA extraction kits and there's many on the market. But again, there's very few that are currently available. So we are trying to make that available to people by having access to the database. They can see which labs in their area actually have a kit available for them. And then they through the database, they can make direct contact with an individual and say, OK, what kind of kit is it expired?

Is it been unopened? So right now, they really want unopened, unexpired kits that could change five months from now where they become more desperate for these kits. It could be that we don't care if it's been open. We just really, really need this kit right now. So I've anticipated that sort of need, which is why I didn't ask people, do you have an unopened, unexpired kit? I just had a blanket question.

Do you have this kit that you're willing to donate? Mike says that in the other section of the Google Form, people can say if they have PPE, which is not a disease, it means personal protective equipment that they can donate. So gloves and 95 masks, face shields. One physician, Dr. Josh Lerner, posted an open letter on his Facebook page today that went viral or went epidemiological, I should say, in response to the CDC loosening their guidelines for health care workers on the front lines.

And I'm going to read part of his letter because it felt like getting kicked in the stomach by a horse, but it also woke me up a lot. So Dr. Josh Lerner said, please don't tell me that in the richest country in the world in the 21st century, I'm supposed to fashion my own face mask out of a cloth because other Americans hoard supplies for personal use and so-called leaders sit around in meetings, hearing themselves talk. I ran to a bedside the other day to intubate a crashing likely COVID patient. Two respiratory therapists and two nurses were already at the bedside.

That's five and 95 masks, five gowns, five face shields and 10 gloves for one patient at one time. I probably saw 15 to 20 patients that shift. If we're going to start rationing supplies, what percentage should I wear precautions for? Make no mistake. The CDC is loosening these guidelines because our country is not prepared. Sending health care workers to the front line, asking them to cover their face with a bandana is akin to sending a soldier to

the front line in a t-shirt and flip flops. I don't want talk. I don't want assurances. I want action. I want boxes of N 95s piling up, donated from the people who hoarded them. I want billion dollar companies like 3M halting all production of any product that isn't PPE to focus on PPE manufacturing. I want Procter & Gamble and the makers of other soaps and detergents stepping up too.

We need detergent to clean scrubs, hospital linens and gowns. We need disinfecting wipes to clean desk and computer surfaces. What about plastics manufacturers? Plastic gowns aren't some high tech device. They are long shirts, smocks made out of plastic. Get on it. Let's go. Money talks in this country. He says, executive millionaires, why don't you spend a few bucks to buy back some

of these masks from the hoarders and then drop them off at the nearest hospital? We need to divert viral culture media for covid testing and research. Netflix and Chill, he says, is not enough. Well, my family, friends and colleagues are out there fighting. Our country won two world wars because the entire country mobilized. We outproduced and we out manufactured while our soldiers outfought the enemy. We need to do that again because make no mistake, we are at war. Healthcare workers are your soldiers and the war has just begun.

So that was a letter from Dr. Josh Lerner, who is a pediatric ER doctor. So the folks on the front lines need help. And we can help by sharing info and making some noise so our government takes action. What would be your dream in terms of who picks up the database? What would be the best case scenario of where all this information that you have now collected over the course of 50 hours goes? I would love if this be gotten to the hands of a federal agency that they can

then distribute to health officials at the state level, at the county level, at the city level. I don't have that infrastructure. I do not know all these people throughout the country who may be in need of this right now. So ideally, it would be something that comes from the top and it just trickles down to all these other agencies. In lieu of that, I am doing my best to contact state officials. Basically, it's cold emailing them and saying like, hey, I had this thing.

You may need it in the future. I'm more than happy to give you access to it. I just need to know who to give it, who exactly needs it. So that's honestly been the hardest part so far. Obviously, the response from 3,411 people came very quickly. But so far, I've only been able to share this database with health officials in Massachusetts and North Carolina. I'm also working with a group in New York who has been

using it because they're setting up organizational groups in New York to help recruit these scientists. And I'm also working with an organization known as End Coronavirus. So they're endcoronavirus.org. And we're trying to find ways to distribute this database to others. We've built this thing. I really wanted to be in the hands of people who can turn this database into action. But this is actually the first Google form I've ever made.

So I'm kind of learning as I go along and how to run this thing. That's it. This is 100 percent success on your Google forms. So when in doubt, I don't know, make a Google form. I'm feeling inspired as hell to make some spreadsheet databases. People, I also message my good friend and your favorite diabetic, diabetologist, Dr. McNatter, on how people could help. And he said, well, if people have boxes of N95 masks, that would be ideal.

He said, if you see a health care worker in a coffee shop or bodega, offer to buy them something, he clearly is in New Yorker. Also, you can send electronic gift cards or food to hospital staff. I did that today with Dr. Natter's team and he facetimed me from the nurses station saying thank you, which was completely unnecessary. But in the background, one of the nurses stepped into frame in full PPE mask, face shield, gown, and it was so surreal.

It just looked like a scene from a movie. And these people are literally risking their lives to save ours. So just like buy them a frickin' pinini, you know? But Dr. Natter stresses that you should not go to the hospital to drop anything off. Contact the hospital via phone or email first to ask what you can deliver and how. But yes, electronic gift cards for dinner clutch. Now, I also asked y'all what you advised how to help in these times. And I put this up on my Patreon and just a deluge of great ideas came up.

So I thought I would read some of them off because there are so many things I didn't even know or think about. So let's get right into it. So when it comes to donating something, what better resource than your own hot, squishy, sloshy bag of blood? So patrons Ashley Herbal, William Andrews and Aubrey LeBarre said hospitals and the American Red Cross is in desperate need of blood donations. They've had to cancel donating events and a good chunk of their regular donors

are 60 and older, Aubrey said. So if you can and it's safe to do so, you can please donate to your local blood bank. You can call ahead and ask about their protocol if that's a concern. Now, if you are afraid of some needles, but not other types of needles, so what? You can sew masks, a ton of patrons, including Joe Alexander, Shirley Dark, William Pence, Amanda Richards, Maria Kumro, Heather Allens, Laura Schulte, suggest grabbing some fabric, nice looking fabric and looking at patterns online and seeing if you can churn out some face masks.

Now, are these cloth masks as effective as N95s? No, of course not. But they're better than literally nothing. Now, some health care workers are being asked to use one mask for days and days at a time in some hospitals when usually they would be changed out after each patient. And not only Mastic says adding on to this, my friend has been making masks for her husband and his colleagues in the ER. There is definitely a need for them.

And she recommends making some for some other hospitals, but checking on their needs prior to dropping anything off. Now, what if you don't sew, but you have a 3D printer? Well, my cousin, Nate Bronnick, is a bit of a maker himself and suggested looking into the maker community pages to see if there are any face shield needs locally that you can help fabricate. He says there are several groups that are trying to 3D print masks or face shields for local health care providers.

So you can Google that and I'll put a link to that in the show notes. But wait, what's that? What you have actual real medical gear just lying around because you're really into some creepy cosplay or maybe you stockpiled and you feel bad now. Don't feel ashamed. Zach Strickland, a patron, wrote in and said, my mom is an RN and a director of clinics for our rural hospital system. If you have any PPE, you could donate gloves, masks, anything,

contact your local clinic and see if they could use it. Masks do not have to be N95 to be of use to health care staff. Zach says, Eric Polk also wrote in and says, I'm an RN in an emergency room. Oh, thank you, Eric. And I can confirm the need for PPE is critical. Masks are normally used once per patient and then discarded. But due to the current shortage, he says we are using the same mask for 12 hours. Countless patients.

So please, if you have PPE, contact your local hospital. It's a desperate need. What about those close to you, like in your community? Well, patrons, Scott Sheldon says I have several elderly or immunocompromised individuals near me and I'm heading to the store tomorrow morning to get what they need. Scott says, this isn't a blizzard to prepare for. It's a winter or even longer. And patrons, Kathleen Sacks, Julia Heyman, Rachel Lynn, seconded this.

Charmaine H. Wrote in great story, said, share your stuff. They said, I ordered from who gives a crap at the beginning of the year and still had about 30 to 40 toilet rolls left. So I have divided them up and given them to my family members as most of my family is classed as vulnerable and at risk of getting COVID-19 and I'm disabled. So whilst there's not much I can do, I'm trying to find ways of helping them. And by giving them this toilet paper, it means they can now stay home.

You can't spare three square. No, I don't have a square to spare. I can't spare a square. I'm down to three rolls, but I'll cross that bridge when I come to it. Others mentioned to keep an eye out for WIC items at the grocery store. WIC stands for Women, Infants and Children. And it's a program to make sure that food insecure kiddos and pregnant folks get the food they need. Adam Weaver said, avoid buying things labeled WIC.

We can switch to a different brand, but people that depend on WIC can't. So keep an eye out for that in the grocery store when you're buying things. Speaking of vitals, if you can donate a little to a food bank, do so. I just found out today, a hundred bucks makes four hundred meals. So just think a twenty five dollar donation to a food bank could get a hundred people dinner. Now, you can also check with your local ones to see if they're taking any items, if you have extra stuff in your pantry.

Tyler Q and Antonio Olivares, Kayla Simpson, Nadia Jackson, Chloe W all suggested this and Adam Weaver simply said, local food pantries are really hurting. Please donate what you can. A bunch of patrons also suggested putting your money where your mouth isn't and shopping local, even if you're just getting gift cards or delivery from nearby restaurants, just to keep them in business. Heather MacNernan and Kat Lindsay both said simply shop local. Chelsea is also doing this and Dale Lamaster wrote in and said, being retired,

my income is fixed. So I send checks to local small businesses for the amounts I would have been spending with them, if not for social distancing. Dale also says, keep calm and carry on loving and living. Now, for a straight up direct deposit effect on people, a lot of folks are Venmoing others who could use a little cash. R.D. Lange is using Venmo. Michael Pascura says, I suggest visiting GoFundMe to look for campaigns to help

your local restaurant and hospitality workers who have lost their employment during this miserable epidemic. And Nadine Duke says, I'm a waitress or was before four days ago. And my fellow service folk and I have got a lot of GoFundMe pages and the like. And we're all being very good about sharing each other's stuff on Facebook and Instagram feeds. Not many of us can afford to donate to each other, but we'll be sharing the hell out of each other.

We service folk may seem like a bunch of degenerates, but damn, do we have each other's back when the COVID hits the fan? Nadine says, Megan Yacht says, yes, I love this so much. And Rob Hover said that the people who provide support to those who work in office buildings likely need help, too. Like the incredibly kind Shoe Shine man that works in our lobby. Our office took up a collection and with a lot of contributors, we were able to put together enough to at least help them scrape by for a week or so.

And what if you're like, Ward, I am not flush with cash. I'm freaking out about it. I get it. I get it a thousand percent. Now, if you want to volunteer your time for zero dollars somehow, Chase Penex and Michelle Krebs started websites or Facebook groups where people can connect and share resources. You can also volunteer.

Like Chris Caldarelli says Meals on Wheels needs volunteers. And I checked with Meals on Wheels and right now they are really in need of food delivery drivers, as well as people who can perform welfare checks on older folks. Now, if you would like to volunteer but not see or get near other human beings, understood Meals on Wheels said it could also use people willing to write cards or create gift boxes to show seniors currently in isolation that there are people who care. Oh, you can do that. Just contact Meals on Wheels and patron Misha Kovilchuk says that if you're

anologist who wants to volunteer from afar,ologists, they say, share your expertise with some kiddos via video conference. Krista Avampato, a patron, said, I'm chatting with a fourth grade class about biomimicry work and also the non-profit Skype a scientist run by your favorite squid expert, toothologist Sarah McAdulty is amazing at connecting brainiacs with kiddos. So look into Skype a scientist too. Now, consider your skills.

What have you to offer others? Well, patron Helen Bobowash has a lot and says I volunteered to file income tax returns for low income indigenous families. Although our government extended the tax filing deadline, Helen says low income families still need to file to ensure that they continue receiving the most benefits they can get. So I'll file their tax return electronically and email them PDF copy of their tax return. Thank you, Helen Bobowash.

That rules. Let's talk animals. Patron Nathaniel Kossi is doing whatever their dog wants to do. I second that I'm holding my dog right now as I record these asides. Ashley Curtin and Rob Hoover say that shelters are closing down and volunteers can't be there. So consider maybe fostering a pet for a while. Maybe you'll adopt it. Maybe you won't but foster it.

Just do it. Joanie Waldrop says if you know someone who's in a more precarious financial position than you are who also has pets, consider maybe buying them some pet food or litter or whatever supplies they might need. What a treat. Help Mr. Whiskers. Now, how can we make sure that the humans who take care of humans are taking care of who think your health care workers? Ariela 023 says that their mom is a nurse near Seattle and the nurses got a note

recently written to them from a patient that was so heartfelt that her mom teared up. She said it felt so good to be seen. So something so simple, help them all keep going. So consider writing a note to your health care provider or fire department or your favorite small business, Ariela says, and give them a I see you. You've got this. Megan Guthrie and Sapphira echoed this and Sapphira added. Also, please remember that in addition to doctors and nurses, health care is also

leaning heavily on the less visible people who are equally important like the dietary staff who feed our patients and the maintenance and housekeeping staff who are working around the clock to keep up with the requirements to keep everyone as safe as possible. That's a great point. Sapphira also added wash your hands. Another great point. So yes, take care of others and take care of yourself. Let's talk self care.

I was like patrons, what are we doing for self care? Let's talk about it. And patron Esther Cohen says, I think self care truly varies person to person. For some folks, it's sitting and watching Netflix all day. For some folks, it's structure and scheduling. For me, Esther says, setting a schedule with achievable tasks each day and walking, walking, walking for hours on end has been soothing. Kelly King has been rearranging furniture and has plans to paint the living room.

And yesterday, while walking the dog, they made a short video tour and shared it to a mental health group they belong to. Since they say, I know many people are unable to leave their homes. A virtual walk, if you will. Now, in terms of hitting the pavement, other patrons are like, heck, yeah, Mike Monikowski says, I've taken a page from how incarcerated people deal with being confined by working out at home. And I found that exercise actually does help with depression.

It gives you something to do when you'd normally be doing something else. Even without equipment, there are thousands of exercise plans and video lessons available online for every level of experience and preference, ranging from calming yoga to calisthenics screamed at you by a drill sergeant. And side note, may I suggest you're at sleepers quarantine calisthenics every day at noon Pacific time. My wonderful man friend is leading a workout on Instagram live, no equipment needed, and he is usually in short shorts.

So if you tune in, you're going to get a good workout. You'll also see me in the background or me leaving saucy embarrassing comments as I work out in another room. So Jarrett underscores sleeper on Instagram, quarantine calisthenics every day Pacific at noon on St. Patrick's Day. He wore one of my green t-shirts as a half shirt and then he gave orders at a leprechaun voice. Get into it. It's a trying time. I love it. Now, for a more mellow experience,

RT Lang says that they just get an early cup of coffee and go for a morning walk while no one's outside. And Kelly King says I've been making sure to do yoga or Tai Chi daily for my mental health. Heather Densmore says that their yoga class moved to the beach so that they can stay at least six feet away from each other. That sounds amazing. Now, if you're not near a beach, but you're near a screen, everyone says online parties have just been getting their extra version itched

scratched. Stephanie Breherty's Sarah Nichelle, Julie Bear, Julie Brown, Angela Scartuzio, RT Lang, all say they're video chatting. The Google Chrome extension Netflix party. That's where all of your friends watch a Netflix thing at the same time and can comment on it. It's kind of like you're in a movie theater only you're allowed to talk. And if you throw popcorn, you have to clean it up. There's also the Amazon Chime portal or there's Zoom. You can always go old school and FaceTime. I've been doing that.

What if you need to disconnect? No screens, you say. Write a letter says M and Liz Ropeke says that they have been doing this too because it's always nice to just get a letter in the mail. And this way you don't have to be on your phone to communicate if you don't want to be. Liz also adds anyone interested in an oligies pen pal group. If you were on the Facebook group, the oligies podcast Facebook group, there is an address swap there.

Y'all can write each other letters if you like. I love that idea. I think it's cute as hell. Now, Suzanne Kaye chimed in to say, I hope this is not too late, Suzanne Kaye. No, it's not along the lines of self care. Suzanne says, I've been listening to a podcast called Mindful 15 apps or podcasts that are guided to help with relaxing your body and ads. Don't forget the beauty around you. That's a great idea, Suzanne Kaye.

Maybe write a poem about it or you could journal. Ryan McGregor says, I've been journaling to both help me sort out my feelings, but also in the aftertimes. First hand accounts will be helpful for future generations to understand the situation. Mariah says, whether you donate the journal to an archive in 20 years or just have something around to refresh your memory to tell stories to young ones. It's an important part of the historical record. Wow, what a time we're living in.

Will we want to remember it? Probably once some time passes. Conchetta Gibson says, I started journaling specifically to document what's going on locally and to sort through my thoughts, but it's done wonders for helping me keep track of what date even it is. Other creative outlets, Conchetta says, are helping to like painting and minecraft. You know what? Maybe it's minecraft. Maybe it's getting lost in comedies.

Scott Sheldon says, it's OK to laugh. It's OK to laugh even at our current situation. Being able to uncontrollably cackle is a great medicine to boost your morale immune system. You know what else is? Sparkly lights. Ben Mcnell says, there's a thing people are doing in my hometown in Canada, putting up Christmas lights again so families can drive around without contact and enjoy family time.

So as long as everyone's feeling lonely and no one will see you for several weeks, there's never been a better time to cut bangs and text your crush. Grow out a mustache or your pit hair for fun or shave the back of your head. Shave the front of your head. Will Plywa says, I shaved off my beard so I can get fit tested for an N95 mask. I was an ICU nurse a few years back, so I'm going to be ready to get back in the trenches. It is a war and we'll win it by working together and I salute you all. I also message with my good friend Colleen Flanagan.

I've known her since we were 12 and she's a nurse in Northern California. She's currently home on sick leave with what she calls a beast of a lung infection, a fever and fatigue. She says it's worse than when she got this swine flu and pneumonia. So she's awaiting her COVID-19 test results, but she's pretty sure she's got it. And I asked what people could do and she sent me a link to a National Nurses United petition urging Congress to help nurses get the protection they need. But Colleen also sent me this message, which was so beautiful and chilling.

She said, a little perspective for those who aren't sick and don't have to risk their lives and health at their job, self-care and societal care advice. If you're not sick, feel blessed for your wellness. Don't obsess or worry about if you become sick. Don't obsess about getting a test if you're not sick. If you're sick of being indoors, feel blessed. You're indoors and not homeless. If you're blessed enough to have a deck, patio, window, enjoy your private fresh air.

If you're blessed enough to be well, enjoy the extra time to do things you love and communicate with people you love. If you've ever wanted to try yoga, now is a good time. Good for the body, mind, soul and community. Thinking beyond ourselves is the key to getting through this in many ways. And what does anologist want non-ologists to do? Is there anything else? And if someone is not a scientist and they can't run these tests,

is there any other way that they can help or donate or any kind of words of wisdom for people who are like, I want to do something? Honestly, the best thing people can do is stay at home. We really need to be vigilant with our social distancing. I know it's hard. I know it's terrible. I mean, I've been wearing the same sweatpants for three days. I have been showering, so there's that.

But I know how difficult it is to be cooped up at home in this little dark room. Just plug in a way and it feels awful. And, you know, we're in it for much longer than three days. And we have the added anxiety of the fact that there's something going around killing people, potentially people you know, potentially people in your family. So I know it's tough. But the best thing you can do is just stay away from other people as much as you can, because so many cases are asymptomatic.

I think the estimate from China was between 80 and 85 percent of the cases were asymptomatic. This is not like other viruses. This is something that you can be infected for two whole weeks and have no idea. But that whole time you can be spreading it to other people. We have never seen anything like this in the United States. It's my hope we never see anything like it again. So yeah, my advice to people is just to stay home and, you know, watch you watch your show on Netflix, 100, 100 humans.

Just came out the other day. I just saw that. Congratulations. Thanks. Ah, yes, me wearing a lab coat. I don't deserve to be in asking strangers on camera about their toilet habits. I'm the real hero here, people. Excited to receive word of my noble peace prize one morning between my breakfast margarita and my celebratory surf session, but really other people can make a difference.

You can make a difference. We're really hoping that this turns into something. It really would be a shame if we we did this level of organization and weren't actually able to turn it to action. And so that's where I really need our nation's leaders, our local leaders to to help out with at this at this point. And is there any flimflam, any myth about testing that you'd like to debunk? Um, I mean, there is something being

spread by our federal leaders saying that testing is ongoing and there's no setbacks. That's absolutely false. We are not anywhere near the testing levels that we should be. So, you know, there are some silver linings to this. There are already countries that have done a fairly good job of keeping this under control and reducing the spread. So, you know, it's not all doom and gloom. We can get through this, but we really, really need to start

behaving differently. We all need to stay inside. We need to be constantly washing our hands whenever we go outside and come back. Keep your distance from people six feet at least. If you do have to go in public, try to keep that distance. I learned how to wash my hands as a result of this outbreak. I didn't know that my whole life I've been doing it incorrectly. I know.

And now I know like, oh, yeah, you should probably clean it with your fingernails. By like scraping them against your palm and all those other thumbs. Who knew that thumbs? I you got to milk your thumbs. I exactly this whole time. I never knew I never knew I was supposed to be milk of my thumbs this whole time. Milk your thumbs, milk, milk, and when you do, think of me standing right next to you whispering milk, those thumbs.

Who needs a 20 second song? Right. Actually, speaking of a gritty little ditty. Have you seen in all of this? Have you seen John LeJoy? Thank God for the mother f***ers rap. No. Oh, I will send it to you. I am a big fan of his from his time on the league. Yeah. And I listened to some of his albums back then.

Oh, you love his new one. When are we talking about you? Look it up. You'll find it and you'll say, wow, this is precious. Thank you so much, Dr. I really, really appreciate you talking to me. No problem at all. Thanks for the time. So ask mother f***ing smart people some mother f***ing stupid questions. And let's get through this together.

Scientists, the tiny URL to the Google form is in the show notes. Please hop in it. If you can help at all, please do that. You can follow Dr. Wells at MFOL five on Twitter. We are at oligies on Twitter and Instagram. I'm at Ali Ward with one L on both. And I'll have a new episode on Tuesday. I'm just cranking these mothers out. And that one will have no mention of COVID-19.

But if you are thirsty for more info on this pandemic, my virology episode with virologist, Dr. Shannon Bennett explains the basics of the disease and how it spreads. And she has a top notch backstory. Whoo, really one of the best I've ever heard. Now, that transcript is also live on my website at aliward.com in the oligies extra page. Thank you, Emily White and all the transcribers for getting that turned around. I love you so much.

Also, my friends at this podcast will kill you. The doctors Aaron from the epidemiology episode released a my coronavirus episode. And they're doing a shockingly amazing six pack of mini soads dropping on Monday, addressing all kinds of SARS-CoV-2 issues. They are wonderful and they are the originators of the quarantine. So you can check that out. Thank you, Aaron Talbert for admitting the oligies Facebook group. There's a thread there where people are sharing links to people or causes who need

help. Thank you, Shannon Feltas and Bonnie Dutch, who hosts the Comedy Podcast. You are that for managing merch at oligiesmerch.com. Thank you, Jared Sleeper of Mind Gem Media and the Mental Health Podcast, my good bad brain, for giving your whole day over to the production of this episode and standing right next to me as I am recording these the sides. You know, as always, thank you to the wonderful Stephen Ray Morris of the Dino podcast, Sea Jurassic Wright and the kitty theme per cast for scooting this to the top of the queue.

He's staying up late tonight to upload it and to master it last minute for us. And Nick Thorburn wrote and composed the theme music. And he's in a great band called Islands in case you need some new tunes to listen to in isolation. In each episode, I tell you secret. And this week, the secret is that I like to an embarrassing degree. I can't stop listening to the new Grimes album, Miss Anthropocene. It's so good, so many good jams, such good just listening and driving around and walking around music. So listen to it.

Maybe tweeted her boyfriend to start making some ventilators. I hear he's kind of a nerd. Herdy's a little bit of a tinkerer. So get in the garage, egghead. Let's figure this out. OK, Tuesday coming up just a couple of days, new episode. I'll be swearing like usual. So stay inside.

Let's kick this COVID in the rump together apart. Bye bye. Very proud of you all. You know, so good. Maybe there lives a happy little bush right along here.