Ologies with Alie Ward - Dasyurology (TASMANIAN DEVILS) with Jarrah Dale

Episode Date: August 25, 2020

Tasmanian devils! Quolls! Carnivores! Wait … what is a quoll? In what will become an instant-favorite new episode, Dasyurologist and Australian critter scientist Jarrah Dale joins from Down-Down Under to discuss his work at Oxford University studying the ecology of misunderstood boofy bush babes. Alie learns about everything from the Tasmanian landscape to Looney Toons to flim flam, karaoke shrieking, wallaby standoffs, the most Australian afternoon ever, Tim Tam slams, moms with the munchies, teat shortages,Tassie tumors that are shrinking populations, and more. Also: Jarrah has perhaps the best laugh ever.Follow Jarrah Dale on Twitter and InstagramA donation went to: Save the Tasmanian Devil Program AppealAs well as Firesticks https://www.firesticks.org.au/donate/For more links: alieward.com/ologies/dasyurologyTranscripts & bleeped episodes at: alieward.com/ologies-extrasBecome a patron of Ologies for as little as a buck a month: www.Patreon.com/ologiesOlogiesMerch.com has hats, shirts, pins, totes and uh...bikinis? Hi. Yes.Follow twitter.com/ologies or instagram.com/ologiesFollow twitter.com/AlieWard or instagram.com/AlieWardSound editing by Jarrett Sleeper of MindJam Media & Steven Ray MorrisTheme song by Nick ThorburnSupport the show: http://Patreon.com/ologies

Oh hey, it's a coin from your birth year that you keep in your nightstand for sentimental reasons and because you feel oddly emotionally attached to it, Alliward, your internet dad, back with another episode of the podcast audio programmologies in which we explore newology every episode, hop into my fated Nissan and let me take you to an island to talk about rotting meat breath and big butts. But first, some thanks to everyone who's a patron and gives a dollar a month or more to submit questions and see behind the scenes photos and live streams and that's all on patreon.com slash oligies.

Also thanks to everyone out there subscribing and rating and of course submitting reviews for the show, which keeps it currently number three in the science charts. This little stupid show, can you believe it? I read all your reviews, I pick a just birthed one to read each week, such as for example, one left by don't feel like dancing who says this podcast reminds me to take a moment to appreciate something. I've struggled with anxiety and depression for a few years and sometimes it gets better of me.

But every week I get to hear about something new and hear someone who is so passionate about their work, even if it is obscure. Also everyone else I've read your reviews, thank you so much for them. Okay, does your ology. The ologist themselves will get to the etymology of this ology before warned pleasantly it involves back sides. Also the entire reason that this episode exists is because I was just bebopping around twitter.com and I happened upon this person's bio and saw an ology I had never seen before, reached

out immediately and it was on. So they got their bachelor of science in ecology at Griffith University and has been a park ranger in Tasmania is currently getting their D fill at Oxford University, which apparently is the same as a PhD, but Oxford likes to spice it up a bit. And they've been a long time lover of carnivores. They have a particular affection for the desirids like quals, which you're like, I don't know what that is. That's okay.

We go into it. And desirid is also the endanger Tasmanian devil. Also incidentally this person has the best laugh in the universe. So they hopped on the horn as I clumsily fumbled my mic, getting set up and we just dove into a shimmering sea of facts about their Tasmanian roots and marsupial nipples, beers you shouldn't drink, cookies you should drink the most Australian way to have an afternoon. What Tasmanian devils smell like from both ends, loony tunes, flim flammery, the disease threatening Tasmanian devils, why they're called devils, what you can do to help them

and how indigenous knowledge is critical to Australian ecology. All this and more with Quall talker and Tasmanian devil angel, Dazzie urologist M. Dale. Hi, Allie. Hi. How are you? Can you hear me okay? Good. I can't.

It's so good to hear your voice. Ah, it's so good to hear your voice. This is crazy. I know. I'm like so beyond thrilled. I cannot believe that there's anologist who studies these animals. What time is it? No, you're on the east coast.

No, you're in Oxford. No, I'm in Australia. It's AAM. There we go. Did I not say that they have the best laugh? They have the best laugh. I was like trying to figure that out. Are you in Tasmania?

Are you in the UK right now? Who's with? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I had kind of an evacuation moment during the pandemic. Right. Yeah. Okay, so how long are you back? How long are you back?

Man, I'm back. I'm back. I'm back. I'm back. I'm back. I'm back. I'm back. I'm back.

How long are you back? Man, I don't know. I mean, it depends. Oxford was kind of like, go home and don't come back. So I don't know. All right. I might not ever go back. I mean, I might.

I will go back, but I mean, I'm not counting on it, you know? Yeah. So for the foreseeable future, you're home. Yeah, which is really nice actually. It's really good. Especially, I think it's like Tasmania is a lot to change right now, especially in the current political climate. And I'm really excited to be a part of that.

When I clicked on your bio, I was like, excuse me, a what? I just was like that. That's like the first thing, of course, I'm honed in on. If someone has a lot of just in their bio, I'm like, I'm sorry, you'll be followed and I will be treating you. And I looked it up and I was like, fuck Tasmanian devils and quals. Yeah. And things called Fascagales and Antichyluses.

Like Dasaurid, like the most gnarliest animals. Let me tell you. They're so cool. Just in researching like basic Google search of like what kind of animal is this? And there's just this like thing that looks like a cute little guinea pig feasting on raw meat. And I'm like, what is happening? Can you give me just a very rough description of what Tasmania is like for people who literally

probably think it's a fictional place? Well, so I'm going to maybe do some code switching here in terms of like referring to Tasmania. So the Paloacani, which is Tasmanian Aboriginal speak, if word for Tasmania is literal Weta. And, you know, part of part of me being a non-Indigenous Tasmanian is that I feel a great responsibility to, you know, acknowledge the people who own this land that I stand on that stolen land. So I'm in Nipaluna, which is Hobart. And Tasmania is an incredible place. It's like the beauty here is amazing.

So if you think about like, we have these, these plants called Pandani plants. When I say Pandani, you might think of like pandanas on a beach, but these things grow up in like morelands up on high mountains. And they're massive. They're like three, four meters high. And they've all got this big shaggy coat, like a big winter coat. And they're the largest heath plant in the world. We've got these massive like gum trees that are like pyromaniacs that like drop their leaves

and drop their bark. And they're the tallest flowering plants in the world. And then we have like incredible alpine tarns that are like have been formed through rocks, cutting through glaciers and like magma and stuff. And like it's a very awe inspiring landscape. Like you come to Tasmania, you fly or you, you know, take a boat in. And the minute you get here, I think, you know, your world changes. I've never found a place like Tasmania.

I've traveled quite a lot. I think a lot of Tasmanians kind of like, especially queer Tasmanians end up leaving. It can be such a scary landscape to grow up in, but like it draws you back. Okay, if you're like, I don't even know where Tasmania is. That's okay. We're not going to tell anyone. So Tasmania is like heart shaped island. It's one of Australia's states.

It's off of the southeast coast, kind of like where America's Florida would be. It's off the coast of Melbourne. It's about the size of Ireland or West Virginia. It's got a population of about a half a million people. And to the east of Tasmania is the larger patch of earth that we call New Zealand. Now, because Tasmania is more south-er than the rest of Australia, it is thus closer to the South Pole. So it's a little cooler than mainland Australia.

It has all four seasons, which is more than I can say for Los Angeles. It's got ferny, mossy, cool rain forests and mountains and bays and beaches. It's gorgeous. But wait, did M mention that queer Tasmanians leave? Let's get into that. Tassie's a really weird place. When I was growing up here, I just really didn't see. There was no one openly queer.

It was really like, it was a very anti-gay landscape, anti-queer landscape. Last year for Pride Month, we had a lovely guy called Alex Bond come and talk to us, who works here at the University of Tasmania part-time. And I didn't realize he actually worked in Tassie. We were in Oxford. And when he started talking about Tasmania, I just burst into tears. I've never seen a queer scientist. I've never heard of a queer scientist from here.

It was a very isolating place. For a long time, I was really super closeted. I went through lots of conversion therapy at my school. That's just Tassie. But it's super exciting to be back here and see things changing. It's a very backwards place. I love it. I don't want to bash Tassie too much.

I love this place. It's a beautiful place. And yeah, it's people like you who speak up and make it even better. Well, I hope so. I feel like I want to be that kind of role model for other queer people, because it was just so isolating to grow up here, being queer, and just like, it wasn't an option to be out. I remember I told my mom when I was seven or eight,

and bless her heart, she just didn't, she was like, you just need to keep that quiet. That's just how things are, you know? But not anymore. I won't let another generation of Tasmanians go through that. It won't happen again. Don't mind me just legit crying. But also, Tasmania, let's continue to look at its good.

I could drive for like half an hour and then be in the middle of nowhere and wouldn't see a soul for weeks. Like 20% of the state is a massive national park, which is an incredible World Heritage site, which will be preserved for hopefully forever. We have really incredible like endangered grasslands. Like if you want anything, you come here, you'll find it. We have like these massive things called cave spiders that live for 80 years,

and they have sex for 24 hours at a time. And they're incredible. Like in this place has so much to offer, and the history here is so rich in terms of indigenous and First Nation people. I feel quite privileged. I've worked in the Parks and Wildlife Service for a while, and I've been able to kind of engage with that a little bit as a non-indigenous person. It's just a great privilege being a Tasmanian.

I've never been. You have to come. It's incredible. I've never been to Australia even yet. I've never been to New Zealand. I've never been down there. So I know I got to just like go do still away on a freighter ship. It'll be easy enough.

I hear the coffee, Dananda, is amazing too. Also, my accent is impeccable. No, it's not. And y'all the critters. And now Tasmanian devils. We have heard about them via Looney Tunes for years and years and years. And one question I got on Patreon, which we'll get to Patreon questions in a bit, but was like, are they real?

Like a lot of people are not aware that they're actual animals. So can you tell me what one is? Yeah. So Tasmanian devils are real. They're real and they're spectacular. And they're just very sweet little things. So in the Looney Tunes, this is my favorite thing to like my favorite question to answer about them, because you know, in the New Tunes, Tas is like this crazy kind of tornado like animal

that kind of like rips up things in his path and is kind of quite like, you know, quite aggressive. But when you catch a devil in a trap, they are just the most smoochy little babies. They just sit on your lap and they just let you do whatever you want. So like, you can put your finger in their mouth to take a biopsy of their tumors. You can take blood from their ears. You can give them a little pat. And they're just so calm. I mean, and a part of that is shock, I guess.

But like, when I first worked with them, I was like, oh, well, we're going to have to wear like massive gloves and stuff. And the person who was teaching me was like, no, no, no, they really chill and just dumped one on my lap. I was like, oh, my gosh. How big are we talking? Cat, dog, bread basket? What? They're kind of like, they're sort of a Maltese, like that kind of like kind of like small dog kind of size. Like they're not big.

They're just, they're real buffy. They've got massive like buffy heads. Buffy? Buffy, adjective Australian informal, voluminous or puffed out regarding the hair or sleeves. Also means muscular and strong, but stupid. Like chunky, chunky boys. So Desi Eurid is like the family that they're in with quolls and anti-kinesis and fascia gales, etc. And it means hairy tails.

They all have these really hairy tails. But devils specifically store fat in the base of their tails. So they have these little like, these little, quite big bums. Dairy air, extraordinaire. They're really sweet to like, you know, you feel how healthy a devil is. Like some animals, like a sheep, you might feel like, you know, back behind its, like in front of its hip bone, see how much fat it has. For a devil, you squeeze this little bum and you see how healthy they are.

I think it's quite sweet. Oh my God, your field work is like a pedonk. Oh my gosh, it is. That's crazy. But they, they get their, like they get their bad rep or their, like their name devil from when invaders first came to Lutruite Tasmania. And they have this, you have to cut to a noise of a Tasmanian devil because it is otherworldly. And, you know, I have, at our farmhouse, we have devils under our porch. And when, you know, when they're feeling particularly vocal and want to have a little bit of a sing,

like it's like the devil has literally risen from hell and is about to eat your soul. They have a really horrible voice. Are you ready to hear one having a bit of a sing? I am. It's like me at karaoke. Yeah. Drunk. Actually, it is, it kind of does sound a bit like that or like a cat in pain.

I mean, not you, not me specifically at karaoke, but maybe just anybody at karaoke. I don't mean to hate on your karaoke. But they also have like, if you look at a picture of them, they've got little like pointy ears and they look a bit, a bit gnarly, you know. And their ears are quite thin. Their skin's quite thin. And when they get excited, the blood or rushes to their ears. It makes it look like they have little glowing red horns, basically. So, oh my God.

Yeah. When invaders came, you know, for the first time, you know, in the 1800s, they heard this noise and they switched on a light and they saw this, you know, pointy thing. And they genuinely thought it was a devil. And then imagine their surprise when like a little tiny thing came, you know, wobbling out of the bush. It's a size of a multi, as it came and licked their legs or something. And like, did you grow up? I mean, you grew up maybe seeing them under the portraits of when did you decide, okay, I'm going to dedicate my life to science and studying these little critters. I was really lucky that I had, I was raised by my granddad who, well, my granddad and my mom.

And my granddad was an ecologist. He was a botanist and he always really encouraged me to like follow what I wanted to do. And he was, you know, he would take me out to sewage treatment plants and things to look at like, you know, plants and stuff. And I love plants. They're really cool. They're really, really important thing. And I like looking at them and I enjoy their presence around me. But that was never my thing.

But I remember seeing like devils and, you know, devils are a pretty iconic animal. They have been since I've been alive. And it kind of, the whole, like, I cannot tell you in that, in the Dazzeurids, like there's so much cool stuff going on. And like so little is known about them because they're quite elusive. And until the facial tumor kind of came around with the devils, there wasn't much research being like happening on them. It was like a very, very kind of all very neglected in terms of like, you know, a comparison to other, you know, other animals like say that, you know, the counterpart in the UK might be a badger or something. There's quite a lot of research focused on, you know, those kind of animals, whereas our little carnivores get kind of neglected down here. So, but they're, and they're so special.

And seeing a devil in the wild, like, it never gets old. Like, it's just, I couldn't take it. I'd be so excited. Like, it's always like, it's fun seeing ones that you've caught before. Every moment is joyous in a way. I mean, yeah. So I guess that is kind of what attracted me is that there's like, there's not much we've just been done on them. They're really interesting, like all of the species, all of the families there.

So Tasmanian devils are marsupials? Yeah, they're marsupials have a pouch, which is called a marsupium. That's just a random wanky fact for you. You should have a section called wanky facts. You need your own podcast called M's Wanky Facts. Oh my God, that would go down so well. Seriously, let's talk. Okay, so M's Wanky Fact number one is marsupial pouches are called marsupiums.

And Tasmanian devils have them. But let's talk teats. This is one of my favorite facts about devils and quolls. I think also like the smaller desert urids too, but so they only have four teats. So when they're born, they've got a, like, it's a shoo for all marsupials, all things that have pouches. They're born through the vaginal canal and they've got to climb a little way up to the pouch. Quolls have four teats, quolls have six teats, but they give birth to 40 babies. So 40 to 60 babies have to crawl from the vaginal canal out to the pouch,

find the way to the pouch, and get onto a teat. And only the four in the decadence level or six in the case of the quoll survive. Oh my God. I know. And then the mum eats the rest of them. Oh my God. I know. Oh my God. That is ruthless. Isn't that crazy?

Imagine eating your own babies. It's like a lot of them all the time. A lot. Like gummy bears. Yeah. Well, they're the size of a tic-tac. Squishy and little. They're the tic-tac size. Yeah. Oh my God. Like popcorn shrimp. Yeah.

That's like if we had a bunch of babies the size of popcorn shrimp. It would be. And then the ones that made their way to the breasts and they'll be the strongest one. And the rest of you just like, well, you're too weak. And that's why maybe when they're adults, they're quite chill because they got all their kind of really aggressiveness out of the way when they were just immediately born. Like elbowing their siblings out of the way to get to the teat. How are the ones that find the teat?

Yeah. The chosen four. Yeah. How are they not total assholes? Like you'd think you would have, you know, you'd think like only the assholes would arrive. Look, I mean, it would be, it is definitely, it's probably a combination of like what time were you born and also like, are you directionally challenged? Because if they walk, you know, the opposite way, they're going to end up, you know, on

the floor. It's just luck. I think it's just complete luck. Like I don't really, I'm sure people really understand who wins because they don't get to, you can't get to the other ones in time because the mums already, you know, had a bit of a, you know, a lick and eaten them also. Yeah. But yeah, I mean, they probably are assholes.

If you found a devil jelly bean on the floor and you tried to raise it, maybe it would be the sweetest, kindest angel baby you've ever met. Oh my God. Can you imagine you're just born, you take a wrong turn, you wind up at your mom's butthole and she eats it. Relatable. But yeah. No, it's so hard.

It's such a hard life being like a devil or a quote. Like if you start off on the wrong foot, like your whole life is really hard. Yeah. They all deserve book deals. Now what about their carnivores? Yeah. And so you think like a mom, she's got to nurse these things so she needs meat. Yeah.

Do they go straight from the teat to eating like insects, worms, like what happened? So it's different. So for devils, they'll be stuck on there for quite a long time. So with the teat like spills in their mouth and they get stuck there for a while until they can, they grow through and they open their eyes and they kind of ride around on mom's back for a bit. And they'll still be suckling though at that point, but they should be trying them out on carrion, like dead meat, like scavenged meat.

They're pretty much like obligate. They're mostly obligate red meat eaters. They don't really kind of stoop down to the level of insects like a quoll. Quolls, quolls mostly. Well, like eastern quolls eat permanently insects and stuff. But yeah, devils are not apt hunters. They've got. Oh.

They can't. They basically, there's a recent study was published about they put like cameras on devils to see what they do. And one devil tried to eat a wallaby and the wallaby got away and then it just stood there growling, angrily, huffing and like getting upset with itself. Can you imagine that? Can you imagine? It's like if you go to the fridge, there's like for the third time, there's nothing, there's

nothing that you want to eat. You're standing, you're getting really grumpy. It's kind of what the devil was doing. Okay, side note. If you're like me and you struggle to form mental pictures of Southern hemispheric marsupials that frankly sound fictitious, a wallaby is about 10 pounds and kangaroo looking. It's a little smaller than a Tasmanian devil, but they're macro pods, which means that they have big feet.

And apparently Tassies are like, can't even eat this if it's still alive. P.S. what kind of leggies do Tasmanian devils have? So they've got like their back legs. They're kind of like a hyena in the way they walk. They've got like really long back legs. They kind of hobble. So they can run pretty fast. Up to 25 Ks an hour, but they kind of, they kind of wobble more than run in a way.

Okay, so I look this up and if a Tasmanian devil were chasing you to try to beat your ass, you'd need at least an electric scooter to get away. Duty care. Good to know. And they're really just like scavengers. So they'll eat. They eat a lot of roadkill. When the Tassie tiger, the father scene was alive, they would have like eaten the remains

of their kills, but in their absence, they mostly rely on roadkill. So it's a pretty chill life for a devil baby because your mum will just rock up. She'll just smell like a dead wallaby on the road and you know, she'll kind of just pull it off the side and you'll all start eating together. It's quite a family affair in that way. Now, if there is a marsupial that's been roadkill, I understand that you should try to check it to see if there's any babes in there. Yeah, little babies.

Yeah, I should always. That's like a thing that we're, it's almost like a, it's like a rite of passage in Australia. I think you, you check the pouch. Often in a pouch, there'll be a little pinky, which is like a really little baby, girly bean stuffed to the teeth. It's hard to raise such small babies. It can be done with the right carers, but you know, in lots of cases, there'll be a Joey just sitting, you know, by its mum or in the bush.

Yeah. But the other thing is cause devils, they are endangered, but, and from facial cancer, but also from roadkill. Like around 400 devils die every year on the road because they scavenge off roadkill. And so it's really important that if anyone, anyone, if anyone has many is listening to this, drag the roadkill off the road. So devils don't get hit by cars accidentally. Okay, Tasmania, maybe keep some taco tongs in your trunk and just do a little good

Samaritan carcass dragging from now and again. But stay safe, please. Now, Am has mentioned facial tumors a few times and don't worry. We're going to get into what the hell is happening with these Tassie tumors in a bit. And Tasmanian devils are only in Tasmania. Correct? Yeah. So they used to be on the mainland of Australia, but they haven't been there for about 4,000,

3,000 years. It's unknown why they're not there. But kind of that timeframe coincides when Dingos kind of made their way to Australia. And Dingos are quite avid hunters. There was no land bridge that Tasmania at that time. So they would have been, yeah, they would have just kind of slowly gone extinct on the mainland. Oh.

Yeah. And now what about quals? Yeah. Which by the way, I thought at first was a quaca, which is a different thing. By the way, so quacas are those blisteringly cute little critters who are related to wallabies, but they look like a mix between a hamster and Tom Hanks. And as it turns out, are not flesh shredders. Yeah.

And I was like, a quaca is a carnivore? Oh my God. That's horrifying. Yes. Like an evil clown kind of a way. Like sweet and cute and then just blood thirsty. Oh God. Yeah.

So a quaca and a quail are different. Different. So what is a quail? So a quail is, so there's a couple of different types. In Tasmania we have spotted tail quails and eastern quails. And they are like, they're just like devils. They're like, but they're, they're actually psychotic. Like when you catch a quail in a trap, you are lucky to walk away with your face still intact

from that encounter. They're really quite, they're quite like manic animals. And they're quite different to devils. They will actively hunt. Basically, they're like big cats. We call them native cats actually, occasionally. And they're like big cats, big long tails and spots all over them. So the spotted tail quail has like spots on their tails and the eastern quail has no

spots on their tails. They kind of have like little mousy faces and like the tiniest little pink nose that you just want to boop. But you know, if you boop, you won't ever, you won't ever be able to speak again. So you just have to resist so much to not boop the little snoot. Oh my gosh. So quails have more of a temperament that we have thought was belonging to Tasmania devils. Yeah.

Oh yeah. That's completely flipped. Like, yeah, devils are the chill, chill dude. And it's like, and they're kind of like really like aggressive cousins that just really don't want to be around you. Hi. Can you not please? It's really strange.

But like, and these things are like spotted tail quails are quite big there, but they cannot, they weigh about three to four kilos and they're not that big. Like they're really quite light, but they can be kind of quite long. But they can hunt things that are like, you know, 14 to 18 kilos. Like I have, I remember once I was sitting by a river and I was just like watching a plant up course or something and the spotted tail quail just like jumped next to me and it had a possum in its mouth, a whole possum. And like these things aren't that big, but they can bring down like massive prey.

And it's just incredible what they can do. Like they are, I know devils are really kind of thought as the apex predator, but I would, I would put my money on the fact that, you know, spotted tail quails are doing most of the legwork down here in terms of like actually actively hunting and killing things. That story, the only way that story could get more Australian is like if you were drinking a foster. Oh my gosh. That's blasphemous thing to say.

Don't talk about fosters. I don't even know what to drink down there. I don't even know. I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. That's all right. But like sitting at a river watching a platypus and then a quail hops by with a possum. Oh yeah, this one's quite funny, doesn't it?

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And then a kangaroo kind of punched me and a crocodile at the kangaroo. That's a good accent. That's quite impressive. You just can't imagine anything more than on that. That's amazing. Oh my gosh.

I need to figure out what kind of beers people drink down there that I have to do. I'll research that. It's like Forex, a lower end beer, I guess, in terms of like price. But it's like, I don't know. We have a lot of craft beer down here. It's quite impressive really. When I was, you know, honestly, when I was like, you know, a teenager, there was like one bottle that you could get like one type of beer from.

And now there's like craft beers everywhere. It's a very changed landscape. Let me tell you. I bet. I bet. You have like an artisanal veteran, Mike. Yeah, man. I got back this time and there was like Manuka Honey Tim Tams.

I don't know, man. I don't know. I don't know. I don't want to hate on like growth, but I feel like that's a bit weird anyway. P.S., if you ever want to seem like a Tassie local, order a Bogues if you're in the north and a Cascade beer in the south. And bonus, Cascades have a Tasmanian tiger on the label, which is now extinct because of colonization, which is like a stage four bummer.

Also, side note, a Tim Tam slam is when you bite off diagonal corners of this chocolate cream filled wafer cookie and then you suck tea through it and then you jam the whole shebang in your shebang hole, which sounds perfect if you need to warm up with a thermos, a tea while you work in the chill of a brisk July. Southern Hemisphere, y'all. It's topsy-turvy. And now what about field season? Like when is field season for you?

When is like mating season? And also, let's talk about their little face tumors. Yeah. I didn't even know that was the thing. Yeah. I'm not doing field work right now. My kind of work is desk based. I'm doing some like modeling of the facial tumor and stuff.

But if you're talking about a life cycle of a devil, they're breeding about probably February to May more like it. And their gestation is about, I think it's like 21 or maybe 51 days. It's one of those. It's one of those numbers that ends in one. Something 20 different. Right. 70 or 50 days.

I don't know. It's very different numbers. They say for 21 days, they cook indoors before crawling out of her vagine and then dodging her late night munchies and beating dozens of siblings to make it to a teat. And then they stay around with mom until about like summertime here. So that's like November, December. So they stick around with mom for quite a long time really while they're growing in the pouch obviously and then kind of learning how to be a devil.

And so by December, they're all really trying to find their own homes. So devils aren't territorial. They are solitary though. So they're not territorial in the way that you might think of like a lion being territorial or like, I don't know, even a quoll being territorial. They do use latrines. So they'll like they'll all poop in the same place and they'll communicate by anal gland secretions.

So they have little like a little dog. They have little anal glands on the side of their bum holes. And when they poop, they kind of secrete a substance that kind of communicates different olfactory cues to their mates around them. But they don't have like territorial, territorial boundaries, but they do like being kind of in their own space. So in December, little dudes will kind of start walking around trying to find their own homes. And that's kind of, it's kind of not opportune.

It's good for them because there's a lot of food around and easy food and a lot of things are dying as well. Like they're getting older and dying. It's kind of easy prey. But there's also a lot of people on the roads that somewhere everyone's going out to their shacks or to the beach or up to the bush. So we get a lot of devils dying on the roads, young devils, which is a shame because they haven't even got the chance to start breeding and they haven't even got the chance to survive

the facial tumor yet. So we use a lot of devils, young devils every, every summer because they move around dusk and dawn and it's hard to see them because they're jet black, basically, you know, lesser little white shrap on their bum and a little white shrap on their chest. So it's really hard to see them. And if you're kind of doing 100ks an hour down the highway and little devils feasting on a dead wallaby in the middle of the road, you're not going to, you're not going to see end time.

So there's like a big push for people to kind of really slow down dusk and dawn because it's unnecessary death. We can't really afford it at this point. You know, we lose so many devils too. Here's a segue to the facial tumor, which is. Yes. It's called Tasmanian Devils Facial Tumor Disease or DFTD. And it came, it was first started up in a place called Narantapu in 1996.

And it's one of only two mammalian transmissible cancers. The other one is like a really, really old dog penis cancer. Did you expect to hear the stack of words really old dog penis cancer served up into your ears like a club sandwich today? No, no, you didn't. And if you're a dog with a dick and you get canine venereal transmissible tumor, how do you deal with it? Well, according to the paper diseases and surgery of the canine penis, a dog dick doctor would

recommend partial or complete penile amputation depending on the tumor type and location. So aren't you glad you're not a dog? So is everyone except maybe Tasmanian Devils. What we think happened, it's hard to tell what we think happened is a female devil up in the northeast of the state got cancer and through their behavior and also their low genetic diversity, it's spread throughout the state. So every time I say behavior, they are quite gentle with people and that could be an element of shock and stuff.

But amongst themselves, they are quite grumpy. They don't have really good eyesight. They mostly use their smell and their hearing and their long whiskers to navigate the landscape. And also because there's not much carrion, there's not much food to eat really. I mean, it's mostly roadkill. Things will die naturally or there'll be a dead sheep in a field or something, but generally there's not a lot of food around. So they all have to kind of share.

And they don't really, they're solitary. They don't like sharing. They're being forced now more than ever, especially as humans encroach on their habitat more and more. They're being pushed together and having to eat together. And so when they're eating, they're all kind of going a bit crazy. They're getting a bit excited. It's like if you walked into your favorite restaurant and you saw a big plate of pasta

and you were like, I haven't eaten in days. And you just start crying. And you're all racing towards, all your friends haven't eaten for days too. And it's all your favorite meal. And you all start racing towards and you get a bit grumpy. You know, it's natural. Like on my ankle. It's normal.

I'm five of a pasta. They're five of a, you know, dead pasta. Absolutely. So. Especially when you're like, I made it to a tea. I'm going to make it if you did. Yeah. I've been, I've been eating by my mom.

I need to eat this. Wait, what were we talking about? Oh yeah. Okay. Fleshy cancer knobs that kind of look like you skin to plum and it boards way through their cheeks, eventually killing them and breaking my heart a thousand times over. AKA Tasmanian devil facial tumor disease, which let's be honest, should be called TDFTD, but it's none of my business.

Anyway, they get bitey with each other because of these long brunch lines and also cause they get horny. And if they get too close to each other, they naturally, they just kind of bite each other on the face. But what that means is probably what this female did is she had this cancer. She bit another devil on the face and then the cancer transmitted through that and probably because they're quite closely genetically to each other. They went through quite a few bottlenecks even prior to invasion.

Climate change has, you know, over the millennia has made them shrink and grow and shrink and grow. And then obviously post-invasion, there was a lot of boundaries out on their heads, like Tasmanian tigers, because of the myth that they were eating their sheep when they couldn't hunt a sheep. And they've grown steadily since then until the nineties and they've declined quite rapidly with this tumor. But the interesting thing about it is it's a clonal cell.

And I want to say here, I'm not a cancer researcher. I'm just a necologist. There's a lot of research out there that I'm not privy to. But from what I know, it's clonal. So when you biopsy, the cancer cells, it's got the female devil, the first female devil cells in it, not the devil host cells. So yeah. Wow.

So they're so rare. These are transmissible cancer. I see there's only this one dog penis one and the devil. And then in 2014, a second strain of the facial tumor showed up down in the south of the state, which has male genetics. So it's a whole, it's almost like they've been struck by lightning twice. So they had this first one in 1996, and then a second one emerged. And they're two different strains.

You can tell because of the DNA of each of the strains. And basically, we've lost like, you know, there's been declines up to 95% of devils in some area areas. There's there's probably less than like, probably 10,000 to 20,000 devils prior to DFTD kind of happening. We would have had like, I don't know, 250,000 devils. It's a lot, a lot of deaths really. And it's almost 100% mortality rate. Because what happened is they get, they get it on their mouths and they can't get it elsewhere. They don't buy it anywhere else, really.

But if they did buy it somewhere else, it would, it would infect there, but it's very facial, facial orientated. But basically, it means they just starve to death over the period, a period of a year or so, like slowly. So it's really sad and horrible. We've had no examples of vertical transmission. I haven't ever seen a mum pass on it to her babies. But we have seen examples of, say, where a devil might have facial tumors that have been different, tumor from different individuals. So say they might have been bitten three or four times because the cancer is quite a stable cancer,

but it has mutated. It will mutate within an individual. So while it will still have the same genetic kind of composition of that first devil that had it in 1996, or the one in the south in 2014, it does mutate. So you can tell if an individual has just one tumor that's spread or multiple different tumors. That's kind of the basis of it. But there is, there is some hope. Like, I mean, it's incredible, like the amount of attention that the devils got with this,

like through cancer researchers, through ecologists and biologists, it's been an incredible effort to help them. We're still, we still don't have any kind of cure. But what we have found is there are individuals that have recovered from it. Nice. Oh, wow. So they, without any human intervention, they've reduced the cancer in some way themselves, probably due to some kind of immune response.

So there have been like a few examples of devils kind of shrinking their own cancers in a way, which is badass as hell. Yeah. For real? Yeah. They think that a vaccine is possible? I think they're working on a vaccine. Because the men's institute here at the University of Tasmania is like working great guns to

find a cure for it. So Dr. Bruce Lyons of the University of Tasmania has said of the vaccine work that they're doing there, that their research has found that, quote, the devil's immune system can, in certain circumstances, eradicate the tumors. But the next step is to connect the dots to hopefully produce a single shot vaccine. And he says, we've still got a bit of a way to get there, but compared to the history of immunology and human work, the achievements with devils in the last 10 years are outstanding. So that's promising.

I mean, if they would just stop nipping at each other while eating or having sexy times, which is also how those face bites happen, then they would be fine. But it's not like you can just hand out informational leaflets near wallaby carcasses. You can't stop a devil from being a devil. Yeah. So. Yeah. You can't quarantine them.

No. No one bite each other. Well, the thing we have tried that they have been quarantining devils on an island off shore off Tassie. They've put a lot of devils on an island called Moriah Island. Why are you so obsessed with me? I think it's Pahla Wakani named it's Wukalu Wikewaina. They have about, I guess, oh gosh, I don't want to say a number.

I'm going to say a number and then put bloody wrong, but it will be like 300 devils there now. And they're very genetically diverse devils. There's no roads there. Like the only people that have cars there are the Rangers. There's no cancer. So it's like an insurance population, but also like it kind of can feed into the main population too.

Because if you can create more genetic diversity offshore and then bring that to the main land of Tassie, you can maybe kind of increase diversity enough that the cancer becomes less of a problem. It's kind of the aim there. Yeah. Oh my gosh. And an island full of Tassie devils. Oh my gosh. They're so cute.

When you first get off the boat there, there's like a little like rotter, a craze of devils where all the mums kick their babies out to all these little baby devils running around. It's so cute. They're so sweet. Oh my God. Can I ask you Patreon questions? Yeah, go. Okay.

We got 1,000 questions about the Looney Tunes character and we also just got 1,000 questions. Ah, but before we get into your howling, screaming, blood filled and adorable questions, just a quick word about sponsors to make it possible for us to donate to a cause of eachologist choosing. And this week, M had two great ones. So we're splitting them with some going to the Save the Tasmanian Devil Appeal, STDA, which delivers funds to research and monitoring programs in response to devil facial tumor disease with its key aim to keep Tasmanian devils sustainable in the wild.

And M would also really like to shout out and support Fire Sticks Alliance Indigenous Corporation, which aims to create a resilient social and ecological landscape through cultural fire and land management practices. And M said, obviously, Australia has been hugely impacted by fire in the past few years and Fire Sticks supports traditional custodians in maintaining and building fire knowledge and practice. And it helps affected communities to heal in the aftermath of recent and future bushfires. So to learn more about traditional fire custodianship, you can check out the film of

Returning Petrula on Vimeo, which I'll link in the show page on my website, along with those two charities. So donations are made possible by the following sponsors, which you may hear about now. OK, your questions, patrons. And so I'm just going to kind of like lightning round you. OK, Ashley Curtin, question that's on all of our minds. What's the goss on their love lives? Do they make for life?

Do they have a family lifestyle? Do mamas have flings and then raise the babies alone? Like, let's hear the juicy deeds. Juicy. OK, so devils, like a lot of animals, they're really like they're quite promiscuous. They definitely don't make for life. They definitely have multiple different partners. And in fact, a baby set can be from multiple different fathers.

So it just depends on, you know, which is the fastest kind of and like, which is the most virile, I guess. But yeah, they'll just mate with anybody. The breeding season is quite a noisy time. They're very like, you know, if you want to sing. I guess they're just so funny. Like if you just hear the noise they make and imagine that's either like them like being happy to see food or being happy to see someone they want to have sex with.

It's like it's like kind of the same kind of noise. And they have a large vocal range. And they definitely do like they have olfactory like sent cute. They also do make a lot of noise and being like, I am ready to have a baby. So a lot of noise, a lot of like a lot of courtship. A lot of singing. But yeah, no, it's all very, like males will just mate with anybody. Females will mate with anybody at all.

It's all kind of like, it's a big free love kind of fest out there. Yeah. It's very much like spring break. Yeah. A lot of bone. Oh yeah. A lot of noise. A lot of noise.

Um, Julie bear on that note says sorry, but the dong question is compulsory. Do they have multi-headed dicks like other marsupials? By the way, I mean, I don't know that was a thing. So yeah, they, they, I don't know. I'm going to, definitely muscle people do have like a kidneys. I pretty sure have three pronged dicks, um, which is in great crazy. Right. What is that for?

Yeah. Um, yeah, I did not do two bonuses just in case you lose. I got a couple of backups. Exactly. Um, I'm just Googling tell me in devil penis. I don't, I don't know. Uh, it's a picture here on, I'm going to get some kind of, oh, it's a four headed penis. Well, oh my goodness.

Sounds floral. Look, it looks kind of just like a generic penis, but, um, doesn't seem that crazy. All right. I'll Google. Okay. You should Google it. Cause it's, yeah, I don't know. It just, yeah.

Oh yeah. I'm going to Google. Don't worry. There's going to be an aside on that. Okay. So yes, dude, a kid does have quadradongs partly because the females have a vagina duo and from what I was able to Google on the phallus of Tassie, it looked kind of like a sleepy earthworm.

So let's me under casually over to butt smells. Julie bear also wants to know what would be more pungent the spray of a Tassie or Pepe Le Pew, a skunk. Huh. Well, they're not stinky. So I associate devils with what we do. We trap them in these big PBC pipe things that are kind of circular because it kind of makes it a bit more comfy.

And then we put them in a Hessian bag. So I kind of associate the Tasmanian devil with the smell of a Hessian bag. That's a burlap sack. America. And so it smells quite nice to me when I think of what a devil smells like. And then also when I go looking for their poop, like it's like really quite, it's kind of pleasant. Like I've worked with a lot smellier animals.

Like quolls are pretty smelly. The thing is their faces do smell like rotting meat, but they don't spray you like a skunk. They weren't like skunk on you or whatever, but they do definitely smell like rotting flesh. So it depends what you're into, I guess. Associations run strong. Like, you know what I mean? If it reminds you of being out in like hiking boots in the world doing the work you like,

rotting flesh is like, you know. It's not. It's kind of like, it's kind of like relaxing in a way. Well, on that note, Ella Sugarman wants to know what shape are their poos I'm hoping for cubes, but that is a wombat, right? Yeah. Wombats have cube poops. I think recently someone just found out because of how their colon is shaped, which is interesting.

Hey, quick question. Are you eating? If so, just skip ahead about like a minute and a half. Just to warn you. So devil poos are pretty, pretty just generic carnival poo. They have like, they're quite long, like almost like a, they've got like tapered ends and they're often joined in the middle by hair. They eat everything.

Like when I say Tasmanian devil, like is a bit of a grot. They are. They eat bones. They eat teeth. They eat eyes. They eat hair. Like everything. I remember once we put out a kangaroo carcass just because there was a kangaroo around the

farm and it had passed away. So we put it out. I want to see what would happen. And the next morning it was, there was the bones and the next day there was nothing. Oh my God. Like they, so in, in that way, the, the lunatic character is correct because they are like a tornado eating food, but you know, um, so no, they're poo. Like poo just, it's not that exciting compared to a wombat poo.

They have, yeah, it's just like a lot of hair. It's like, it's great. It's like, um, like sausages and you can see, but you know, often you get like, if they've eaten like a little wallaby or a little like patty melon, they'll have a whole jaw inside there, inside their poop because their jaws are so small. And it's like giving a Tasmanian devil poo and to fight and like going through it is like my favorite thing. Like when I go out on a walk and I smell devil poo, I like, I'm down there.

I'm down there like golem. I must have the precious. Like fingering it, like breaking it up in my hands. And all these other bushwalkers are walking past me like I'm some kind of real creep, but it's like, they don't know. They don't know what it's, it's great. I'm holding liquid gold basically. It's like everything I could ever want is inside this poop.

I don't know that you're a desidious analogy. Oh, you thought scientists were normal, boring people? No, no, not at all. That is one giant falsehood. Oh, flimflam. I didn't ask like what's the biggest myth about Tasmanian devils? Like how did I not ask that already? I think the biggest myth is what he got over.

The biggest myth is obviously that they're grumpy and they're really just not that grumpy. I think that that's kind of the biggest thing about devils. I think there's a lot of like talk about them being like real like apex predators. I think that's a bit of flimflam too. I think there's a lot of, I think we don't give quolls enough attention. They are really the ones doing the heavy lifting in our ecosystems. They're the ones kind of like equalizing everything. I mean devils are important.

I fucking love devils, but like, I think we don't give quolls enough like kudos because like man, they are doing, you know, God's work. I'm not religious, but if I was, I would be core religious, you know? One nation under quoll. I think I can't think of anything else. That's a good one. Oh, and Cameron Simpson has a question. What is up with their hair coloring being white below their necks?

Is it random? Is it unique to Tasmanian devils as a sort of purpose as opposed to quolls? They have those spots, right? Yeah. So quolls are kind of, when you see a quoll in the wild, which is hard to do because they blend in so well. They're kind of rusty color or the black or the foreign and the spots, they break them up in the landscape.

They look like leaves basically. There's devils. Yeah. It's really, really, really rare to see a carnivore who's black and white. It's just a weird start coloring choice. And we do get devils that are just 100% black. And we do get devils that like have like almost quoll like spots. It's very rare, but we do sometimes get devils with a lot of white on them.

There's been a lot of like talk about what it could be. It could be for like defense, like, you know, a big white, you know, a big white kind of band is kind of quite like startling to another devil. And then they have, if they have a big white band, they'll have a matching one on their bum. So it's almost like you can't tell which end is which. Maybe it's a confusing thing. Maybe it's like, is this my fat bum or just my chunky, chunky head?

Who knows? So, and I guess because they are nocturnal or crepuscular, they kind of blur the line between being active at dawn and dusk or overnight. You know, being black probably helps them. But also they don't have to blend in that well. You know, nothing really hunts them. I mean, that's probably why the dingo did kind of decimate them so badly because they are quite apparent.

Yeah. And that's why like feral dogs like loose dog packs here are a really big issue because they are quite starkly obvious to, you know, predator. Oh, and one more question from a patron, Jolie Brown wants to know, how adaptable are Tasmanian devils and quals to climactic change and other changes to their environment like heavy rainy season and drought, stuff like that. This is a incredible question because not very well.

So they're quite hardy things in like other situations. Like I said, fire, not a problem. Like, you know, brush it off, shake it off, take the swift. It's like, they're kind of fine about like those kind of more natural events. Climatic changes, no, they cannot deal with it. So devils, you know, over time, you know, through the fossil history, there have been like massive drops and massive inclines in terms of climate change. Same with quals.

Like, eastern quals are probably my favorite animal and I am like obsessive compulsive constant looking at research being done about them. I'm some kind of like, I'm like a quals stand. It's really quiet. It's kind of creepy. I mean, anyway, they really are not doing well and they are really tightly linked in terms of their population numbers and density to rainfall and climatic change. They really do fluctuate quite a lot.

And so they're not doing so well. If we're talking about eastern quals, their numbers are lowest. They've been in 230 years and, you know, spotted tail quals aren't doing any better. And devils are low, but also for a different reason, but for, you know, more the facial tumor kind of side of things. They're not doing well in terms of climate change. None of Tassie's. Tassie's really, it's a very special landscape, but it's changing a lot.

It needs wet winters and it needs, you know, dry, hot summers. Not getting that. Everything's kind of flipped around. Often a word that people don't like to use in science, but they should be using more. The country is sick. Tasmania especially is sick. The land is sick and it's really heartbreaking to see it kind of degrade and degrade more and more over time.

Yeah, I think if we don't do something quick about climate change, we're going to lose these animals. So devils and eastern quals are only found in Tassie. Tasmania became a refuge and now their last refuge isn't protecting them anymore. We really failed these animals and we know so little about them. We never said to lose them just because of, you know, how iconic they are, but we just know so little about them. How can we lose them?

Yeah. And what a loss to the world. Huge kind of group of animals that, you know, just deserve so much more attention and funding thrown their way. Which is why we donated to UTAS and their efforts. So please save these little Tassies. Okay. Maybe one more question from patrons.

Casey Handmar himself in Australian says that he is not qualified. Yeah. Those are quite quality questions. One more question. Okay. One more question. Kathleen Jones says that they Googled quals and immediately yelled fuck off at my computer at the top of my lungs.

I want to kiss them, but also nibble gently on their ears, but also become a marsupial and force them to live in my pouch. So can I feed them the best snacks? Is that common? If you work on a quoll, do they like you? No, they don't. You don't want to feed them because they'll bite your face off Kathleen Jones. So here's a really interesting thing.

So cats, domestic cats are really bad ecologically. Like they kill a lot of birds. They kill a lot of native rodents and stuff. So Mena Jones, who is my goddamn idol. If anyone wants to look at Tassie Devil Research, you just go to Google Scholar, type her name in, and you'll be in Devil and Core Research for hours. She's incredible. And also my supervisor.

So anyway, she's great. One of the reasons I wanted to work with her is she's really passionate about making cats illegal in Tassie and swapping that over with Tassie Eurids. And so that, you know, we call quolls our native cats. The natural kind of thing would to be to bring quolls into that equation, take cats out. But let me tell you, okay, so I would say I am for that because I don't like cats in our landscape. They are really like quite disastrous.

But, you know, I've raised quolls before and they are great. Like when you have them for women, they're babies. And, you know, if you're with them every day, they do love on you and you can feed them. They love crickets. Their favorite food is crickets or like a little bit of peanut butter. They used to eat me and my dog's food and stuff. But the thing is, if you go away for even like a day and you come back, they're like, who the hell are you?

And they try and kill you. And then it's another like three weeks of them being like, you have to be there all the time. They've got good hearts, but they have really bad memories. So you just couldn't leave them alone. So quolls, pretty much like a cat with polka dots, but also will treat you like a stranger. And chew your face off. So maybe we don't swap kitties for quolls. I would almost be like more inclined to be like, devil's the way to go.

If you know, if we wanted to go on that path of like getting rid of cats and putting in a native replacer, quolls are incredible animals. I'm not saying go out there and get one and put it in your home. You'll probably lose a hand. But if we're talking about what's best for Tassie and what's best for Australia, it's not have any more cats and to have more native animals around. And devils are a lot more, you know, generally, they're quite a lot more happy to be around humans than quolls. They're not happy to be around humans, but they do it more than quolls do.

Oh my gosh. Is it legal to keep a Tasmanian devil? No. So like carers, you can get like a wildlife care permit. And then if like a devil comes in, that's what they call the baby devils are called imps. So even if an income comes in, you can raise it, but it's quite a specializing and like they're quite hard to raise. And the quolls that I've raised, it's hard work, man. You've got to have a lot of space and you've got to have a lot of time and do nothing else.

Before I moved to Oxford, we used to raise kangaroos and stuff. And I last kangaroo cara. She's great. I would carry around in a pouch around the streets and stuff because she didn't like being alone. But, you know, when she wanted milk, she'd just like rock her pouch on the door and just make a lot of noise and be real grumpy. Or like, if I want to talk about things that make devil noises, look up what a kangaroo sounds like. Like a greasing grey kangaroo. Oh boy, here we go.

This is from a YouTube video called kangaroo sounds and pictures for teaching. And I just want you to know, I looked and the top upvoted comment reads, sounds like me getting up from bed. Because they sound like the devil. So like, it sounds nice. Like having it sounds like dreamy like, oh, wow, you raise the kangaroo, you raise quills. It's hard. It's hard. You don't sleep that day.

It's weeks. And it's rewarding because they get to go back out where they belong. But like, you know, that's also quite hard to say goodbye. I think he's spent so much time in, but it's good because you're doing good for the environment. It's a lot of blood, sweat and tears and, you know, they don't really like you. They're not really going to come cuddle you. They're going to like look at you. Like, when are you going to feed me crickets, bruv?

Like Jesus. And wherever you are out there, before you start painting a Tasmanian fern forest in your devil nursery or dreaming up an Instagram handle for your soon to be famous wild pet influencer, maybe just like, don't. I mean, I get it. I would love a house wombat, but I got to shatter your dreams here. I wouldn't be for like, exporting devils across the world as pets. But I think locally, if we could, you know, boost numbers in that way, it will be, it will be interesting to see what happens. Yeah.

That is, I mean, I'm going to stick with a dog. It's just literally so easy. Like, that's fine. Yeah, I feel that. Yeah, yeah. As I, as I record this, my dog is asleep on her back. Just spread eagle on her back. She's about the size of a, of a qualifier.

She's like, oh, my dogs are multi. He's sitting on my lap. He's a, he's a very smoochy little boy. He's looking at me like, what are you doing? Why are you making so much noise? It's nine o'clock. He's a very grumpy boy. Oh yeah.

I think I'll stick to dogs. And okay. The worst thing about what you do, then it sucks the most about being a dad. Wait. I'm a urologist. Thank you. No, no, no. Now you go.

You want to say it? Dad's urologist. Yeah. That's it. Yeah. I think the worst thing is that I haven't been able to actually do field because I've been working in Oxford. I've been like working with a really cool team, like working with a really cool tech to try

and bring that over here. Um, but also like learn more statsy stuff to bring that back to Tassie as well with some really, a really cool team in Oxford. So the worst part has been for the last couple of years. I haven't been able to do any field work or like see a devil because I've been in Oxford and my work is now quite desk space, which is not what I got into ecology for, but that will change. But also I think the worst part is that like the worst part genuinely that that's like

the worst part for me. So I haven't been able to get out there and see them, but the worst part is seeing them with the cancers. So if the cancer is so far along that they're starving to death, we put them down and that is just the saddest thing. And like even like so, for example, if a mom's teats are enlarged, we will send her back even if her tumor is so bad because we can't let her pups die. Yeah.

So it's an equal tie between putting them down or letting them back out if you know what their fate is going to be. That is truly, truly heartbreaking. Um, and it never gets easier. Like it's just, oh my gosh, I'm thinking about it now makes me want to cry because it's just like these pure, gentle babies that just, you know, through no fault of their own have this horrible, transmissible cancer. It's quite horrible.

It smells bad. You know, you can, you can tell when you have a devil with a facial tumor, when you get it, if you walk up to a trap because it just smells like really pussy and ganky. I don't know. Is that a word? But yeah, anyway, that's the word. That's my new word. M's ganky, wanky fact order.

Oh my gosh. Amazing. Oh my God. But yeah, that's the hardest part. Oh, and then what about the best? What about just the thing that you love the most about your job? I think seeing them like after you have processed them, so after you have them on your lap and you're doing what you need to do with the quality devil, seeing them run back to the

bush. I remember the first time I ever saw someone like release a devil. She said, um, she's an incredible researcher. She said, go forth and prosper. And this little devil just like looked at her and then jumped into the bush and I was like, what? This devil knows exactly what you're talking about. He's going to go and have a friend and mate now.

I can guarantee you this devil is like on a mission now. It's very inspiring. They just leap and they just, and they just are gone in a second. Um, and that's kind of the most incredible part is like being able to be with them for this like short amount of time. It's such a privilege and an honor to be able to like be in their presence. It's almost like, it's like, it's like orange. It's so awe inspiring sitting with these animals and every individual one is so important.

Like every single piece of data is so important for the future of these devils and quills. So, you know, that's kind of the best part. And then also just like, like just a lot of my job is out just like sitting and you know, I go do work in that in the afternoon. I go sit on, you know, in the bush and drink a beer and just listen to devils screaming around me. Like, I, you can't not be so happy in those moments, right? Like, it's really hard to be sad when you only have any, that's your life.

Yeah. And that's like the ultimate expression of, um, like I hate to see you leave, but I love to see you go because they do have those bubble butts and it's just what a joy to watch them walk away. Yeah. It's like, whoa. Take your cute little butt out of here. Yeah.

Shake a little tail. Yeah. Oh my gosh. Incredible. Anyway, thank you so much. The best. Good morning. I feel so happy.

Oh my God. And my Tuesday afternoon. So ask smart, hilarious people, really ridiculous questions about animals you may or may not have thought really exist because the facts are astounding and their laughs are contagious. So you can follow Em Dale on Twitter at Carnivores at all. They also tweet about other great Tassie scientists and are just an online joy in general. And there are links to the charities supported in the show notes and more links will be up at alleyward.com slash oligies slash daziorology.

And we are at oligies on Twitter and Instagram. Please be friends with us there. I myself am at alleyward with one L on both. Say hi. A oligies visors and hats and stickers and t-shirts, even bathing suits are available at oligiesmerch.com. Thank you, Bonnie Dutch and Shannon Feltis. They are two sisters who host the comedy podcast.

You are that. They are hilarious and they help me manage merch. And thank you, Erin Talbert, who admins the very wonderful oligies podcast Facebook group. Thank you, Emily White, who is a professional transcriber. You can email her at higheremilywhite at gmail.com in case you have transcription needs. And she heads up the oligies transcription team. I see you all. I love you all.

Transcripts as well as bleeped episodes for small agites are up at alleyward.com slash oligies dash extras. Thank you, Caleb Patton for bleeping. Thank you, Noelle Dilworth for managing interview schedules, assistant editor, Jared Sleeper of Mind Jam Media, who also hosts the mental health podcast, My Good Bad Brain, and co-parents, our own grumpy, boofy, bottom-devil grummy. And of course, to the spots on our quals, Stephen Ray Morris, who stitches all the pieces together each week, and also hosts his own podcast, The Purr Cast, and the Dino Podcast,

See Jurassic Right. And there has never been a better time to check out his podcast, See Jurassic Right, because he's launching a Back to School series. It starts on September 7, and it features interviews with all kinds of paleo-scientists about fossils and dinosaurs and awesome topics. So if you like oligies, find See Jurassic Right and subscribe ASAP to hear the trailer for Stephen Ray Morris's Back to School series starting September 7. So that's SJR with SRM.

Oh, yeah. Also, Nick Thorburn wrote and performed the theme music. And if you listen to the end of the show each week, you are rewarded with some sort of tidbit, some kind of secret. This week, here's a life hack. You know how sometimes you'll buy cucumbers, but you never end up eating them because you're like, I got to cut them up and stuff? Okay, here's what I do.

I just buy cucumbers, and then I put the whole thing in the freezer, and then you can lop it in half, put that thing in a smoothie. Cucumbers and smoothies, they're great. Put them in there with some frozen berries, maybe a packet of like, emergency. Done. I like to throw in some green tea for flavor. There you go. Now you have a smoothie.

Also, if you freeze a cucumber, you can slice it up and put it in your water, like ice cubes. And then look who's drinking spa water out of an old Del Taco cup. You or me, maybe I'm talking about. Anyway, I hope you enjoy that. Put a bow in your hair, Google a quaca, scream, sing under your porch. It's a big, beautiful world out there. And be nice to each other. Okay.

Until next week. Bye-bye. Bust out the Tim Tams, the Anzac Biggies, keep man in the loop with some TikToks.